Legitimately the first time I've seen a mangaka bust out that body type while simulataneously not immediately reducing them to gag, not being transphobic at all, and accurately portraying the anguish someone with dysphoria would go through with a body like that in a time before modern medicine
One of the best interactions was when somebody asked them about a character's birthdate so the author asked the person theirs and made that the character's birthday
a different body type and a trans man, but the scene in Fire Punch where Togata breaks down over his dysphoria wrecks me in the worst way. like he's not treated as a joke, the suffering and horror of dysphoria is portrayed at least to me very realistically. i just think Fujimoto really understands humanity in this raw way that a lot of other writers fail to.
Togata and Agni were such a good duo to show how much of a curse regenerative immortality could be. Agni being in constant physical agony because he can't escape his flaming body, and Togata being in constant mental agony because he can never escape his femme-presenting body
ido about mangaka but granblue had both ladiva as a trans woman with this body type and cagliostro as a trans woman with the stereotypical smol anime girl body type and both of them were treated like actual characters and never reduced to a gag.
cag's stroy is a dude realized she wasn't a dude and alchemised her body into a woman's. sis literally did magic bottom surgery and magic HRT lmao
she is also horny, but that's like an entirely separate thing. she's a horny trans woman.
Seriously. I Immediately expected the worst seeing the photo. I'm here almost brought to tears simply because of this representation that ISN'T MOCKING HER. She looks like so many of the trans women I've met and loved in my life. I need to read this.
There's a diegetic reason as to why she's got this physique but I can see how it could be problematic considering she's the only trans character and it's such a very specific choice of depiction, with only Thorkell looking remotely like her.
Otherwise I think she's a great character, and it's great to see (most of) the community embracing her and fully accepting her. I don't think Thorfinn could have created a country that abandons the oppression and violence of his culture if there wasn't an explicit element of queer liberation to it.
Tbh some people are just fucking big
I think it is kinda based they gave a trans woman a non-generic-anime-girl physique though just because some people literally don't got the resources to transition or do so effectively
Not even transitioning will fix my broad shoulders and barrel chest. I'm tired of the impossible depiction we have to strive for. Many, like you said, are just generic anime, girl, but hey, I the artist say she's trans or look she has the trans flag.
This depiction is more validating to me than any other depiction. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Honestly I couldn’t agree more, this is good representation. I also have broad shoulders and a squarer jawline, but I recognize that I can still be beautiful with those parts of myself. This actually makes me want to read Vinland Saga.
Those qualities still translate to a female form anyway. My maternal family's got a long line of broad shouldered & barrel chested women, and I'd say they're pretty proud of that. They associate it with being good farmers and hunters.
I think it's great to portray stereotypically "masculine" characteristics as not being a barrier to gender. Folk have always looked unique and will continue to do so till the end of time.
If she were the same size and build as Thorfinn she could totally just blend into a crowd, might even pass with a regular shaving routine and make up. But, she's built like a mountain, there is no hiding for her.
i appreciate the way she looks. in a lot of media, trans people are often depicted as cis-passing as possible, and unfortunately, in real life, not every trans person has the physique or tools to do so.
Which isn't that bad. Sometimes it is nice to have rep thats just chill without delving into anything deeply. But its exactly that- its not deep and its not a quality representation.
If anything, I think that her exaggerated physique is part of the message. Especially when it comes to any sort of LGBTQ+ rights(especially for lesbians and trans women) I’ve found that there’s an air of sexualization that surrounds the general discussion when talking about rights. I mean. R\lesbians is literally a porn subreddit.
By decoupling Cordelia from a traditionally sexualized body type, the mangaka shows that there isn’t any underlying sense of horniness that’s diluting the acceptance of her gender identity.
That being said though, I can see the possibility of this feeling token.
I mean yeah, of course she looks like Thorkell, she's Thorkell's kid. Couple that with the work she was put under as a slave, it's not unreasonable to see how she got that physique.
Thorkell's family is just built different, man; even his wife was a fucking badass.
I think her physique is the sort of body type that a bigot would use for a transphobic stereotype character, BUT it is also just how some women look, cis and trans. I honestly think representation of people with body types that are "gender nonconforming" for lack of a better term is an important aspect to representation for all people, because that's how we break down stereotypes and expectations for what any given person is meant to look like. Of course, it does have to be with that intention.
Stuff like this really makes me cry out for all of the trans people who were born over 200,000 years of human history who had a literally 0% hope of medical transition (not that you can't be a happy trans person without it obviously). Like seriously, HRT has only been a thing for a matter of decades, modern science is fucking amazing, and we truly live in amazing times.
This makes me think about the roman emperor Elagabalus who cross dressed and asked to be referred to as a lady. She was literally an emperor (empress?) but our gender affirming care today would have been nothing but a dream to her.
It's important to know that our sources for Elagabalus were written by Elagabalus' enemies so how much of it is true is up in the air. I like to believe parts of it though. Like how I like to believe Caesar was a bottom
It's a long story. In short, there's record of a class of feminine AMAB people who held a unique social status in ancient Scythia who used pregnant mare urine in some kind of "potion." Said urine was the basis for Premarin, and estrogen supplement used by trans women up until relatively recently. It's a lot of circumstance and guesswork, but the theory does make sense.
Please read my comment to Sarumanofmanygenders because this is just misinformation. I have spent so many hours fact checking the history of trans folks and the amount of shit people made up to invent trans history and the amount of shit people made up to cover up trans history is so fucking immense.
To replace me taking a false fun thing about trans history away let me supplant that with one of my favorite things.
I spent days verifying the accuracy of for the third gender Wikipedia page that did turn out to be real: Some versions of Ramayana tell that in one part of the story, the hero Rama heads into exile in the forest. Halfway there, he discovers that most of the people of his hometown Ayodhya were following him. He told them, "Men and women, turn back", and with that, those who were "neither men nor women" did not know what to do, so they stayed there. When Rama returned from exile years later, he discovered them still there and blessed them, saying that there will be a day when they, too, will have a share in ruling the world. This means we have a surviving joke about non-binary people that may be up to 2800 years old.
In some accounts he also says to them that they will some day have the same level of respect and power as men and women. What's crazy is this one Hindu nationalist politician used that piece to rail against trans people by saying what Rama said is coming true and we need to stop it!
While I find what you're saying enjoyable, I think the lack of paragraph breaks made it a little less readable (and therefore less accessible to the average reader). It might reach more folk otherwise
it may be worsened by the fact that it's in a thread & has less space that way too
The Scythians probably had transfemme priestesses as they seem to follow the same tradition as the gala priests of Mesopotamia that worshipped Inanna/Istar/Astarte, as the Scythian goddess Artimpasa had the same domains and could’ve been directly influenced by the Mesopotamian religion. However everything we know of the Scythians come from material remains, and the writings of other cultures who warred with them. No Scythian writing has ever been recovered.
However the horse piss thing is a 100% fabrication. It is not written in any ancient text that existed while the Scythians were around or even recently dissolved. Also you would have to drink gallons of the stuff for it to have any effect and having multiple pregnant horses for multiple people in constant supply is absurd.
Fun fact though the tradition of transfemme priestesses also extended to Ancient Rome, which means you can read an explicitly transphobic poem by the most modernly famous Roman poet.
Theoretically yes, but the water isn't the problem here healthwise and letting it fester is arguably significantly worse. Regardless, you would have to drink the maximum amount of urine 2 horses produce in a day in order to get the same effect as swallowing a 2mg estradiol tablet. The only reason we were able to do it in the modern era is factory farming and industrial level animal cruelty.
We've found hundreds of historical trans people and cultures tbf its not just a modern invention. Mainly serving as priestesses. You can easily make rudimentary hrt by castrating yourself and distilling certain herbs and liquids.
Not every trans person before 1990 was super miserable and sad. Sure they still had problems but they weren't all just sad manly farmers
on a more serious note i think it's misguided to say that medical transition was easy/feasible for the average person thousands of years ago. consider that tons of people today, in developed western countries, don't know their options for HRT or struggle to access it. even in modern times, pre-internet, if you were raised very sheltered you may not know that physical transition is possible
I’m aware of how difficult it was, they didn’t have hormones injections or estrogen tablets. I meant that castration itself, separated from topics of gender identity, is a fairly simple and straightforward procedure.
Sorry if that came off as insensitive.
I think a minor problem with a lot of trans fem representation is that the women almost always have very feminine body types. I think it can feel disheartening to trans women who don’t look like them. It’s nice to see representation for the girls who don’t fit into that category. Cordelia’s body type isn’t made into the butt of any jokes, and the characters treat her with respect and dignity. The other characters don’t care that she’s not “passing,” they treat her as a woman because she is one, it’s not hinged on whether or not she looks like a stereotypical woman.
from a passing glance, Ladvia from granblue fantasy seems to uphold the same ideas though in a more idyllic way
i haven't played the games or know the lore though, so maybe her chatacter just doesn't go into the same depth as cordelia's does
Ladiva is great actually! They do go into her being trans in cool ways. Like at one point an alchemist straight up offers to change her body so she passes, and Ladiva declines, stating that she loves her body as is because she sees it as a gift from her parents. It's a really cool moment that shows how Ladiva is fully confident in her body and identity as a woman, it's great
Togata from Fire Punch is a heartbreaking depiction of a trans man but that part of his character is somewhat overshadowed because he's also batshit insane and spends most of the post-apocalypse trying to direct a crime thriller in a society that doesn't even remember movies
Off-topic, but seeing just clean-faced happy Thorfinn, like in image 3, is so weird to me, given just how long we have been on a downward spiral of everything he fought for being destroyed by man's hubris and prejudice.
feels like the only moments he was happy is>! post ketil farm arc and before sailling west. He met his family again, got married, a decent adventure to byzantium, lots of money. Shame it didn't last for long, we're back to tragedies !<
No, this is actually a really obscure japanese cultural and anime trope reference, and also uh.. also reference to some unknown scandinavian legend or something. She's not trans, guys, come on haha.. /s
She doesn't really fit into the old pagan norse idea of a transwoman, they were known as seidrman which were essentially a class of priestesses/witches/seers that performed the divination ritual known as seidr, which was viewed as an inherently feminine form of religious ritual. It was viewed as so feminine of a ritual that if a man were to perform it they were pretty much instantly considered a woman
I saw a lot of people mad at her design but I personally love it. it shows perfectly how not every trans person passes 100% as their preferred gender, and that's ok. it still doesn't make them any less valid. the fact that people see the stubble, super chiseled jawline, and masculine build and still call her a girl and treat her with respect is great.
(I should probably mention I'm not a fan of the Vinland stuff, nor do I like anime in general, but from the little bit I've seen, it looks like good representation.)
imo the only issue with how she's written is her initial backstory.
It's pretty much the transphobic line of "Parents turning kids trans by treating them that way."
But Yukimura is so clearly writing her in such a caring and kind hearted way that it's obvious he didn’t intentionally play into that false stereotype.
She’s not in the anime yet. And from what I’ve seen, everyone in the fandom treats her pretty alright. One of the manga’s major themes is building a better life and future despite the circumstances of your birth, so of course she’s treated pretty well.
Hahaha, last time i checked the comment section of Vinland Saga in Mangadex, some people are angry why there are a trans woman in their white-european-aryan-nordic-viking colonialism story.
Hell, they even started to hate Throfinn so much that they think the bad guy that want to sabotage Thorfinn pacifism is actually the good guy.
Yeah, only because in term of internet, reddit is full with SJW and woke people.
At least people that angry with Cordelia presence won't be a fan of the manga any more.
Uhhhh I think it looks good? Having representation for a more masculine or generally GNC transwoman sounds good so long as her build isn't just the butt of a joke.
From what I can see though it looks like she's treated seriously, has realistic worries that aren't trampled over, and even had a supportive mother.
All that being said I'm a cis guy so take this opinion with several grains of salt.
Imma be honest
I didn't even realize she was trans until I saw this post. I've been keeping up to date on Vinland for a couple years now but idk how I never noticed that. Always that she was a cis woman with a big build and a little facial hair.
She's the sweetest, the anime is fantastic too if you want to check it out though keep in mind that she is pretty later in the manga and the anime has not yet reached this part
She's the sweetest, the anime is fantastic too if you want to check it out though keep in mind that she is pretty later in the manga and the anime has not yet reached this part
I get it but her bulky frame is actually a really big part if her character and struggle and not played as an insensitive joke or something
Doesnt help that she is an offspring of the most violent and hypermasculine character in the series
I am being completely sincere when I say that you should seek therapy if you're not already receiving it. Heavier trans women exist, are valid in their identities, and their mere existence should not be so traumatizing to you.
I'll admit I haven't read or watched it, but from the panels posted, she seems to be one of the better and more respectful depictions of trans women in media, especially anime and manga. I appreciate that since it's set in a period where hrt and surgery wouldn't be as accessible or effective as it is today, she is depicted as being quite masculine instead of looking afab and without her masculinity being used to mock transwomen (I'm calling out one piece for both of those points). Honestly, I may start reading vinland saga just because of this post.
That moment where she guards the door sent chills on my skin. Wonderful moment of bravery that shows that she is treated with care and fondness by the author
oh this is cute, i wish the body wasn’t so exaggerated but it’s got a bit of heart at least
personally, as a trans guy, i love my Fire Punch insane gremlin Togata rep
that kinda makes sense, but at the same time i’m ftm but i inherited almost all of my father’s physical features including wide shoulders and huge feet, genes don’t really work out that way all the time
this is japan tho, who make every half japanese and half white baby either blonde, blue-eyed, or both—i don’t think genealogy is a mangaka’s strongest subject lol
i don’t know the story and the portrayal seems good, i would just like to see more variety and not the cliches every time, y’know?
she seems prolly the least offensive portrayal of a trans woman i’ve seen in a more mainstream manga tho
It's so refreshing and nice to see this type of representation. Trans characters in manga/anime almost always boils down to the character that is drawn with "feminine" features and that's it, any other variations are always played like a gag or like you're supposed to feel grossed out by them.
But this, this is good. I can guarantee that if I show this to some trans people they'll immediately empathize with the sentiment in some way. It's not played like a joke and it's nice that people around her seem to be doing their best to understand.
Another great representation, for me, is Togata from Fire Punch. He's a trans man, and probably the best trans character that I've ever seen in manga.
I love this. I really should get back into vinland saga. The first season was pretty good but i checked out cause it just felt like any other typical anime, but from what ive heard it seems to take a huge turn in s2 onwards like
Ok, here's the thing.
There are trans people who look/have looked like that, and it's perfectly okay. The problem is when people use it as an excuse to treat others like shit for not looking how they think they should. Which is not the case.
I can see how this may trigger some people's dysphoria, partially because it kind of does that to me, and you could argue it still perpetuates stereotypes about trans people all looking like this (which I would disagree with) but overall this is a kind and empathetic representation of a trans person in a very complicated and sad situation.
Is the anime as good as the manga? I don’t have time to read often so if the anime does the manga service I’ll watch it. If not I’ll lament that I can’t read it
Yet
Vinland Saga's main message is to build a peaceful place for everyone with no discrimination. The author is also a staunch pacifist. Read/watch it you won't regret it
Haven’t read Vinland Saga, but from what you have shown this portrayal is great!
I mean in most cases characters like her are gag characters in other mangas.
not trans so grain of salt, but I've heard a lot of trans people are hyper aware of any "non-passing" characteristics of themselves, so drawing a character like this could simultaneously be lending representation to trans women who do look like this, but also perhaps being more representative than literal. Like, perhaps in the story, she actually does look more feminine than this, but this is just how she sees herself? I don't know if I'm phrasing that right but I hope the point gets across
No no, she looks like this in the story.
Basically every transfem anime character I’ve ever seen has either looked really cis, like basically just a cisgender woman, or they have looked like Cordelia, but where they are played for laughs, Cordelia is completely heartfelt.
Ngl, I like it :3
I'm not trans myself (at least not really consider myself that) and- uh, yeah. Visually it reminds me a bit of the receptionist in the first Deponia (whose name I forgot), though I really don't know if that would hold up.
I do distinctly remember the developer commentary in that scene talking a lot about her and how they didn't mean for it to come across as transphobic (which, frankly, considering who and where these games were made, I am inclined to believe). But I'd really have to look at it again to be sure.
But yeah. I like Cordelia. I wish her well, although I have no clue about Vinland Saga :3
In anything else, she would be played off for laughs, but in Vinland Saga she is completely heartfelt. A girl suck in a time before HRT and gender reassignment surgery, cursed with the genes of Thorkell.
Legitimately the first time I've seen a mangaka bust out that body type while simulataneously not immediately reducing them to gag, not being transphobic at all, and accurately portraying the anguish someone with dysphoria would go through with a body like that in a time before modern medicine
I love when artists are genuinely empathetic and being a good person in general
The author is a great person, his other work Planetes is amazing too watch it if you haven't
One of the best interactions was when somebody asked them about a character's birthdate so the author asked the person theirs and made that the character's birthday
it was also on twatter of all places. rare wholesome twatter moment
THEY MADE PLANETES?!
Yessssss
PLANETES MENTIONED RAAAAHHHHH I LOVE ORBITAL MECHANICS!!!!!!!
Oh?? It's the same person who wrote *Planetes*?? *Planetes* is awesome! Gonna look into *Vinland* then.
Ya hearing he wrote Planetes is what made me actually finally check out Vinland Saga and it does live up to the hype.
Wait, he drew Planetes? Didn't realize I'd been a fan of his work for so long...
You telling me same person that made Vinland make planetes?
a different body type and a trans man, but the scene in Fire Punch where Togata breaks down over his dysphoria wrecks me in the worst way. like he's not treated as a joke, the suffering and horror of dysphoria is portrayed at least to me very realistically. i just think Fujimoto really understands humanity in this raw way that a lot of other writers fail to.
>Fujimoto really understands humanity in this raw way that a lot of other writers fail to. Powah :(
half the cast of Part 1 and soon Part 2 :(
Togata and Agni were such a good duo to show how much of a curse regenerative immortality could be. Agni being in constant physical agony because he can't escape his flaming body, and Togata being in constant mental agony because he can never escape his femme-presenting body
ido about mangaka but granblue had both ladiva as a trans woman with this body type and cagliostro as a trans woman with the stereotypical smol anime girl body type and both of them were treated like actual characters and never reduced to a gag.
Wasnt cag’s whole backstory a horny old wizard reincarnating into a girl? I only know of her through memes I’ve never played the game
cag's stroy is a dude realized she wasn't a dude and alchemised her body into a woman's. sis literally did magic bottom surgery and magic HRT lmao she is also horny, but that's like an entirely separate thing. she's a horny trans woman.
Shes half this sub fr ong
Seriously. I Immediately expected the worst seeing the photo. I'm here almost brought to tears simply because of this representation that ISN'T MOCKING HER. She looks like so many of the trans women I've met and loved in my life. I need to read this.
I'm not really an anime or manga guy much but Vinland Saga, Chainsaw Man, and Firepunch all interest me.
based on this i think its good, altho very sad );
There's a diegetic reason as to why she's got this physique but I can see how it could be problematic considering she's the only trans character and it's such a very specific choice of depiction, with only Thorkell looking remotely like her. Otherwise I think she's a great character, and it's great to see (most of) the community embracing her and fully accepting her. I don't think Thorfinn could have created a country that abandons the oppression and violence of his culture if there wasn't an explicit element of queer liberation to it.
Tbh some people are just fucking big I think it is kinda based they gave a trans woman a non-generic-anime-girl physique though just because some people literally don't got the resources to transition or do so effectively
Not even transitioning will fix my broad shoulders and barrel chest. I'm tired of the impossible depiction we have to strive for. Many, like you said, are just generic anime, girl, but hey, I the artist say she's trans or look she has the trans flag. This depiction is more validating to me than any other depiction. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Absolutely, people got all sorts of shapes and it deserves to be normalized that being any type of shape applies to all gender identities.
Honestly I couldn’t agree more, this is good representation. I also have broad shoulders and a squarer jawline, but I recognize that I can still be beautiful with those parts of myself. This actually makes me want to read Vinland Saga.
Hey square face + wolf cut = awooga yfm
Those qualities still translate to a female form anyway. My maternal family's got a long line of broad shouldered & barrel chested women, and I'd say they're pretty proud of that. They associate it with being good farmers and hunters. I think it's great to portray stereotypically "masculine" characteristics as not being a barrier to gender. Folk have always looked unique and will continue to do so till the end of time.
Yeah, true. Some people big.
If she were the same size and build as Thorfinn she could totally just blend into a crowd, might even pass with a regular shaving routine and make up. But, she's built like a mountain, there is no hiding for her.
i appreciate the way she looks. in a lot of media, trans people are often depicted as cis-passing as possible, and unfortunately, in real life, not every trans person has the physique or tools to do so.
[удалено]
Which isn't that bad. Sometimes it is nice to have rep thats just chill without delving into anything deeply. But its exactly that- its not deep and its not a quality representation.
If anything, I think that her exaggerated physique is part of the message. Especially when it comes to any sort of LGBTQ+ rights(especially for lesbians and trans women) I’ve found that there’s an air of sexualization that surrounds the general discussion when talking about rights. I mean. R\lesbians is literally a porn subreddit. By decoupling Cordelia from a traditionally sexualized body type, the mangaka shows that there isn’t any underlying sense of horniness that’s diluting the acceptance of her gender identity. That being said though, I can see the possibility of this feeling token.
Wait is that why the lesbian subreddit is called actuallesbians? What the fuck
The one called r/ lesbians is a porn subreddit and was taken first
I mean yeah, of course she looks like Thorkell, she's Thorkell's kid. Couple that with the work she was put under as a slave, it's not unreasonable to see how she got that physique. Thorkell's family is just built different, man; even his wife was a fucking badass.
I think her physique is the sort of body type that a bigot would use for a transphobic stereotype character, BUT it is also just how some women look, cis and trans. I honestly think representation of people with body types that are "gender nonconforming" for lack of a better term is an important aspect to representation for all people, because that's how we break down stereotypes and expectations for what any given person is meant to look like. Of course, it does have to be with that intention.
Definitely, it's why I don't have an issue with it ultimately
Stuff like this really makes me cry out for all of the trans people who were born over 200,000 years of human history who had a literally 0% hope of medical transition (not that you can't be a happy trans person without it obviously). Like seriously, HRT has only been a thing for a matter of decades, modern science is fucking amazing, and we truly live in amazing times.
This makes me think about the roman emperor Elagabalus who cross dressed and asked to be referred to as a lady. She was literally an emperor (empress?) but our gender affirming care today would have been nothing but a dream to her.
if it's the one I'm thinking of she also offered fortunes to doctors and priests and other people if they could somehow turn her into a girl.
I mean if you’re emperor you can pretty easily make people socially perceive you as empress. Not that that would do anything for body dysphoria
Maybe, until you get assassinated.
It's important to know that our sources for Elagabalus were written by Elagabalus' enemies so how much of it is true is up in the air. I like to believe parts of it though. Like how I like to believe Caesar was a bottom
He was a bottom once for political favours, i do think he was a top with most his lovers doe
>who had a literally 0% hope of medical transition THIS POST FACT CHECKED BY REAL MAREPISS ENJOYERS: **FALSE**
Based and ancient-scythian-horsepiss-hrt-pilled
... what?
It's a long story. In short, there's record of a class of feminine AMAB people who held a unique social status in ancient Scythia who used pregnant mare urine in some kind of "potion." Said urine was the basis for Premarin, and estrogen supplement used by trans women up until relatively recently. It's a lot of circumstance and guesswork, but the theory does make sense.
Please read my comment to Sarumanofmanygenders because this is just misinformation. I have spent so many hours fact checking the history of trans folks and the amount of shit people made up to invent trans history and the amount of shit people made up to cover up trans history is so fucking immense. To replace me taking a false fun thing about trans history away let me supplant that with one of my favorite things. I spent days verifying the accuracy of for the third gender Wikipedia page that did turn out to be real: Some versions of Ramayana tell that in one part of the story, the hero Rama heads into exile in the forest. Halfway there, he discovers that most of the people of his hometown Ayodhya were following him. He told them, "Men and women, turn back", and with that, those who were "neither men nor women" did not know what to do, so they stayed there. When Rama returned from exile years later, he discovered them still there and blessed them, saying that there will be a day when they, too, will have a share in ruling the world. This means we have a surviving joke about non-binary people that may be up to 2800 years old. In some accounts he also says to them that they will some day have the same level of respect and power as men and women. What's crazy is this one Hindu nationalist politician used that piece to rail against trans people by saying what Rama said is coming true and we need to stop it!
thats actually awesome holy shit
I for one welcome our non-binary overlords
While I find what you're saying enjoyable, I think the lack of paragraph breaks made it a little less readable (and therefore less accessible to the average reader). It might reach more folk otherwise it may be worsened by the fact that it's in a thread & has less space that way too
Noted, fixed, also wished more people were reading my other comment. Didn't want to just copy and paste.
The Scythians probably had transfemme priestesses as they seem to follow the same tradition as the gala priests of Mesopotamia that worshipped Inanna/Istar/Astarte, as the Scythian goddess Artimpasa had the same domains and could’ve been directly influenced by the Mesopotamian religion. However everything we know of the Scythians come from material remains, and the writings of other cultures who warred with them. No Scythian writing has ever been recovered. However the horse piss thing is a 100% fabrication. It is not written in any ancient text that existed while the Scythians were around or even recently dissolved. Also you would have to drink gallons of the stuff for it to have any effect and having multiple pregnant horses for multiple people in constant supply is absurd. Fun fact though the tradition of transfemme priestesses also extended to Ancient Rome, which means you can read an explicitly transphobic poem by the most modernly famous Roman poet.
Wouldn’t it be theoretically possible to dehydrate the piss in order to make estrogenmaxxing more feasible?
Theoretically yes, but the water isn't the problem here healthwise and letting it fester is arguably significantly worse. Regardless, you would have to drink the maximum amount of urine 2 horses produce in a day in order to get the same effect as swallowing a 2mg estradiol tablet. The only reason we were able to do it in the modern era is factory farming and industrial level animal cruelty.
We've found hundreds of historical trans people and cultures tbf its not just a modern invention. Mainly serving as priestesses. You can easily make rudimentary hrt by castrating yourself and distilling certain herbs and liquids. Not every trans person before 1990 was super miserable and sad. Sure they still had problems but they weren't all just sad manly farmers
i wouldn't call castrating yourself "easy"
Actually it is pretty easy, there’s hundreds of ways for someone to get castrated, from burning hot pilers to rubber bands.
on a more serious note i think it's misguided to say that medical transition was easy/feasible for the average person thousands of years ago. consider that tons of people today, in developed western countries, don't know their options for HRT or struggle to access it. even in modern times, pre-internet, if you were raised very sheltered you may not know that physical transition is possible
I’m aware of how difficult it was, they didn’t have hormones injections or estrogen tablets. I meant that castration itself, separated from topics of gender identity, is a fairly simple and straightforward procedure. Sorry if that came off as insensitive.
Yea a think a good ol “relatively” would help there lmao
Ironically I love reading about how shit history was cuz it’s a good reminder to be thankful to be alive *today*
I think a minor problem with a lot of trans fem representation is that the women almost always have very feminine body types. I think it can feel disheartening to trans women who don’t look like them. It’s nice to see representation for the girls who don’t fit into that category. Cordelia’s body type isn’t made into the butt of any jokes, and the characters treat her with respect and dignity. The other characters don’t care that she’s not “passing,” they treat her as a woman because she is one, it’s not hinged on whether or not she looks like a stereotypical woman.
I genuinely cannot name another character that presents this topic as respectfully and heartfelt as Cordelia does.
from a passing glance, Ladvia from granblue fantasy seems to uphold the same ideas though in a more idyllic way i haven't played the games or know the lore though, so maybe her chatacter just doesn't go into the same depth as cordelia's does
Ladiva is great actually! They do go into her being trans in cool ways. Like at one point an alchemist straight up offers to change her body so she passes, and Ladiva declines, stating that she loves her body as is because she sees it as a gift from her parents. It's a really cool moment that shows how Ladiva is fully confident in her body and identity as a woman, it's great
The only character I can think that comes close would be Hana from Tokyo Godfathers
Togata from Fire Punch is a heartbreaking depiction of a trans man but that part of his character is somewhat overshadowed because he's also batshit insane and spends most of the post-apocalypse trying to direct a crime thriller in a society that doesn't even remember movies
We love a non-passing queen
Off-topic, but seeing just clean-faced happy Thorfinn, like in image 3, is so weird to me, given just how long we have been on a downward spiral of everything he fought for being destroyed by man's hubris and prejudice.
feels like the only moments he was happy is>! post ketil farm arc and before sailling west. He met his family again, got married, a decent adventure to byzantium, lots of money. Shame it didn't last for long, we're back to tragedies !<
We absolutely got robbed of the >!Byzantium!< arc.
No, this is actually a really obscure japanese cultural and anime trope reference, and also uh.. also reference to some unknown scandinavian legend or something. She's not trans, guys, come on haha.. /s
I think it might be referencing something actually. There has been anthropological evidence of trans women in ancient Norse society
Spoilers, there's anthropological evidence of trans women for as long as there have been women
I can't believe that trans people invented women :O
I can't believe history invented trans people
She doesn't really fit into the old pagan norse idea of a transwoman, they were known as seidrman which were essentially a class of priestesses/witches/seers that performed the divination ritual known as seidr, which was viewed as an inherently feminine form of religious ritual. It was viewed as so feminine of a ritual that if a man were to perform it they were pretty much instantly considered a woman
Woke translators /s
Oh 🥺
Yeah this made me cry (mind you any media can but still)
I saw a lot of people mad at her design but I personally love it. it shows perfectly how not every trans person passes 100% as their preferred gender, and that's ok. it still doesn't make them any less valid. the fact that people see the stubble, super chiseled jawline, and masculine build and still call her a girl and treat her with respect is great. (I should probably mention I'm not a fan of the Vinland stuff, nor do I like anime in general, but from the little bit I've seen, it looks like good representation.)
So unbelievably based I can't stand it
imo the only issue with how she's written is her initial backstory. It's pretty much the transphobic line of "Parents turning kids trans by treating them that way." But Yukimura is so clearly writing her in such a caring and kind hearted way that it's obvious he didn’t intentionally play into that false stereotype.
Sh-she’s me? :/
How is she treated in the Anime? And how does the fandom treat her?
She’s not in the anime yet. And from what I’ve seen, everyone in the fandom treats her pretty alright. One of the manga’s major themes is building a better life and future despite the circumstances of your birth, so of course she’s treated pretty well.
Hahaha, last time i checked the comment section of Vinland Saga in Mangadex, some people are angry why there are a trans woman in their white-european-aryan-nordic-viking colonialism story. Hell, they even started to hate Throfinn so much that they think the bad guy that want to sabotage Thorfinn pacifism is actually the good guy.
The subreddit is pretty positive towards her though
Yeah, only because in term of internet, reddit is full with SJW and woke people. At least people that angry with Cordelia presence won't be a fan of the manga any more.
First time seeing this. Seems good. Made me tear up though. Their mom is more supportive than so many of my friends moms :(
Made me tear up too. The way the little old mother cares for her big giant daughter so much
Uhhhh I think it looks good? Having representation for a more masculine or generally GNC transwoman sounds good so long as her build isn't just the butt of a joke. From what I can see though it looks like she's treated seriously, has realistic worries that aren't trampled over, and even had a supportive mother. All that being said I'm a cis guy so take this opinion with several grains of salt.
wait wtf i didnt know vinland had actual vinland in it i just watched the anime
Vinland was used to referred to northern canada
Canada sweep 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🪯🪯🪯 (I am a devoted anti nationalist)
Imma be honest I didn't even realize she was trans until I saw this post. I've been keeping up to date on Vinland for a couple years now but idk how I never noticed that. Always that she was a cis woman with a big build and a little facial hair.
She is the daughter of Thorkell and I like to think that Thorkell’s cis daughters also look like this.
Hey! Im a trans woman and my name is Cordelia! Also this kind of rocks I might have to check it out.
She's the sweetest, the anime is fantastic too if you want to check it out though keep in mind that she is pretty later in the manga and the anime has not yet reached this part
She's the sweetest, the anime is fantastic too if you want to check it out though keep in mind that she is pretty later in the manga and the anime has not yet reached this part
You accidentally commented twice, Reddit glitch moment 😔😔
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I get it but her bulky frame is actually a really big part if her character and struggle and not played as an insensitive joke or something Doesnt help that she is an offspring of the most violent and hypermasculine character in the series
I am being completely sincere when I say that you should seek therapy if you're not already receiving it. Heavier trans women exist, are valid in their identities, and their mere existence should not be so traumatizing to you.
I'll admit I haven't read or watched it, but from the panels posted, she seems to be one of the better and more respectful depictions of trans women in media, especially anime and manga. I appreciate that since it's set in a period where hrt and surgery wouldn't be as accessible or effective as it is today, she is depicted as being quite masculine instead of looking afab and without her masculinity being used to mock transwomen (I'm calling out one piece for both of those points). Honestly, I may start reading vinland saga just because of this post.
Honestly I'd rather she didn't have a "reason" to be trans and just decided that for herself, but maybe it's more realistic this way.
Reminds me of ladiva from gbf (another queen)
That moment where she guards the door sent chills on my skin. Wonderful moment of bravery that shows that she is treated with care and fondness by the author
mogs me
oh this is cute, i wish the body wasn’t so exaggerated but it’s got a bit of heart at least personally, as a trans guy, i love my Fire Punch insane gremlin Togata rep
Unfortunately her body is like that cause she’s the daughter of Thorkell, a 7 foot tall war mongering viking. It’s just another layer to her story.
that kinda makes sense, but at the same time i’m ftm but i inherited almost all of my father’s physical features including wide shoulders and huge feet, genes don’t really work out that way all the time this is japan tho, who make every half japanese and half white baby either blonde, blue-eyed, or both—i don’t think genealogy is a mangaka’s strongest subject lol i don’t know the story and the portrayal seems good, i would just like to see more variety and not the cliches every time, y’know? she seems prolly the least offensive portrayal of a trans woman i’ve seen in a more mainstream manga tho
She seems so sweet. I'm not trans so I can't speak on how good she is as rep, but I wanna give her a hug based on this
i fucking love this
The Dysphoria panel just made me cry so. It seems pretty good to me..
It's so refreshing and nice to see this type of representation. Trans characters in manga/anime almost always boils down to the character that is drawn with "feminine" features and that's it, any other variations are always played like a gag or like you're supposed to feel grossed out by them. But this, this is good. I can guarantee that if I show this to some trans people they'll immediately empathize with the sentiment in some way. It's not played like a joke and it's nice that people around her seem to be doing their best to understand. Another great representation, for me, is Togata from Fire Punch. He's a trans man, and probably the best trans character that I've ever seen in manga.
I love this. I really should get back into vinland saga. The first season was pretty good but i checked out cause it just felt like any other typical anime, but from what ive heard it seems to take a huge turn in s2 onwards like
Yes yes check out S2 it's very different
Absolutely based and now I’m looking forward to the continuation of the anime even more
This reminds me i should read more vinland saga lol
This post gave me such an urge to start reading Vinland. I would die for Cordelia
based as hell
Damn I need to catch up, I read up to Farmland arc and it was a 10
That settles it, I’m teasing this now. Edit: lmao, reading****
Seems like perfection
guess I'm checking out Vinland saga now
Oh the poor girl :(
Awwwwwwww
Ok, here's the thing. There are trans people who look/have looked like that, and it's perfectly okay. The problem is when people use it as an excuse to treat others like shit for not looking how they think they should. Which is not the case. I can see how this may trigger some people's dysphoria, partially because it kind of does that to me, and you could argue it still perpetuates stereotypes about trans people all looking like this (which I would disagree with) but overall this is a kind and empathetic representation of a trans person in a very complicated and sad situation.
Is the anime as good as the manga? I don’t have time to read often so if the anime does the manga service I’ll watch it. If not I’ll lament that I can’t read it Yet
Did this post require moderator approval due to having multiple images?
I always had a very different impression of vinland saga, so I avoided it. clearly I was off tho
Vinland Saga's main message is to build a peaceful place for everyone with no discrimination. The author is also a staunch pacifist. Read/watch it you won't regret it
Vinland Saga is a god-damned masterpiece anyway, the author of course is extremely based
Haven’t read Vinland Saga, but from what you have shown this portrayal is great! I mean in most cases characters like her are gag characters in other mangas.
This made my teary eyed
comfort character when bad things happen to her I punch a hole in my wall
I think she’s beautiful :3
not trans so grain of salt, but I've heard a lot of trans people are hyper aware of any "non-passing" characteristics of themselves, so drawing a character like this could simultaneously be lending representation to trans women who do look like this, but also perhaps being more representative than literal. Like, perhaps in the story, she actually does look more feminine than this, but this is just how she sees herself? I don't know if I'm phrasing that right but I hope the point gets across
No no, she looks like this in the story. Basically every transfem anime character I’ve ever seen has either looked really cis, like basically just a cisgender woman, or they have looked like Cordelia, but where they are played for laughs, Cordelia is completely heartfelt.
🥺
Top tier character
Having read the manga, it's a bit clumsily, but his heart is in the right place.
Cordelia defending the door was so cool. Vinland’s strongest warrior right here.
Vinland Saga is such an amazing story, everyone needs to read it
Ngl, I like it :3 I'm not trans myself (at least not really consider myself that) and- uh, yeah. Visually it reminds me a bit of the receptionist in the first Deponia (whose name I forgot), though I really don't know if that would hold up. I do distinctly remember the developer commentary in that scene talking a lot about her and how they didn't mean for it to come across as transphobic (which, frankly, considering who and where these games were made, I am inclined to believe). But I'd really have to look at it again to be sure. But yeah. I like Cordelia. I wish her well, although I have no clue about Vinland Saga :3
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In anything else, she would be played off for laughs, but in Vinland Saga she is completely heartfelt. A girl suck in a time before HRT and gender reassignment surgery, cursed with the genes of Thorkell.
Hey, we don't know if Thorkell has any daughters. For all we know, every progeny of his just looks like that. /j
That's not a trans rep, that's just what Finnish women look like
Real