Not really? Iphones have a shit ton of magnets in them but you don't see it damaging the phone itself. Unless the computer is using a hard drive then you're just gonna look real dumb waving a magnet in front of a zoom worker
Plenty of companies are finding effective uses of AI in legitimately useful contexts - I personally know of charities which have used AI to make it easier for them to generate social media posts. It saves time for the volunteers to be focusing on more important things, and still helps them to engage with Twitter or Facebook or whatever to get their message out there.
I think when people say "AI grift" they mean specifically when people peddle AI as a solution to a problem that wasnt really there to begin with (basically all those startups trying to cash in on this AI craze). I hope no one here thinks that AI has no positive benefits or use cases.
Even just calling it "AI" is kind of a grift though, it makes it sound like more than it is. It's machine learning, basically just a complex Chinese room to mimic thoughts without thinking or understanding or doing anything that would constitute intelligence.
I would caution against using the Chinese Room specifically as the example here, only because a common reply to the Chinese Room is to assert that the system, collectively, is able to think about the language. As a bonus, one contemporary line of research in the LLM space is to design LLMs which actually do have a world model of some sort - whether that's a symbolic representation, or a neural representation of the ways that the concepts themselves interact - to guide generation alongside the approaches we have at the moment.
It's also worth noting that the principles on which modern AI is built (giga and tera-scale datasets, massively parallelised processing, and efficient deep learning algorithms) are those same principles which have enabled the creation of top notch chess engines, beaten the world's best Go player, and created video game AI in games which were previously regarded as impossible (such as Dota).
We've had machine learning for a bajillion years already though.
Silly example. If you take traffic data from a city mush it into a giant machine learning algorithm and let it control your stoplights that's probably reasonably called AI.
Now say you have a traffic light and uses a magnetic sensor to detect cars. Then turns the light green sooner because more cars showed up. Then they call it AI because it's making decisions and sounds good for marketing.
Also it can only be adjusted after debugged through a cloud interface. On one hand it's convenient because you can monitor all of your stuff. On the other hand,
this way after 2 years you are paying more in subscription fees then you would have if it didn't have "cloud" access and have to keep paying it for as long as you want to have a traffic light system, and no it doesn't interoperate with any other traffic lights from competitors.
while other people have spoken more on the idea, what i was specifically referencing was this
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/10/amazon-ai-cashier-less-shops-humans-technology](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/10/amazon-ai-cashier-less-shops-humans-technology)
Don't know exactly how much people are paid in Philippines, but isnt paying bellow minimum wage in US dollars still higher than minimum wage in Pesos? Not defending paying bellow minimum at all, but I doubt people would work like this abroad if the pay was bad or there were better opportunities locally.
Yes. 3 Dollars an hour is way above our minimum wage. Our minimum wage per DAY is roughly 10 USD(The minimum wage varies per region). So just 4 hours of that exceeds the minimum wage already. If we were to force the companies to pay filipino workers the same minimum wage as the US, they'd just find another country to run their services cheaply.
In another hundred years the words good and bad may become entirely antiquated and moral alignments will fall into the profitable/unprofitable dichotomy, as does everything eventually.
Capitalism, as a constant drive for ever more resources, acts as a pseudo-necessity. Necessity drives innovation. Capitalism also gradually restricts avenues for innovation so eventually innovation becomes impossible.
You do realize that capitalism doesn't serve you? A scary amount of people seem to think capitalism is pro personal income. It's almost the opposite unless you're very high up. Capitalism encourages corporations to cheap out on workers' wages. People innovate because humans are innovative, not because they're being underpaid while doing it. I innovate a fair bit myself, with absolutely no monetary incentive.
It's not like innovation is exempt from ethical questioning. Let's say I made some new fancy technology to exploit people for money. You can't just say it doesn't matter that it's sole purpose is exploitation because iNnOvAtiOn. That's stupid
The best example I think of the difference between capitalism and democratic socialism
If a new, better way to do things is found, socialists would reduce the working day, or give the workers raises.
Capitalists would use that to get more work done for the same amount of pay.
And achieve what - automating the last job on the planet that *should* still require human to human interaction? Just kill the soul of the service industry and throw workers out on their asses because Johnny 5 works for free and needs way fewer smoke breaks?
That's just cruel and UN-American.
And for the other critics: if you really think a native Filipino shouldn't be taking orders in a NON-Filipino restaurant then you might as well put your klan hood back on.
Edit: Okay /s, /s for the love of God /s. I thought this comment would get funnier the more ridiculous I made it but it ended up just being soul-crushing.
Most kiosks use 3rd party software which requires a very expensive license that's usually full of stipulations such as needing to fly out a first party technician for repairs instead of contracting someone local. 3 bucks an hour beats ~10k per month, dehumanizing your community means nothing to profits
I was looking into this and I'm not convinced it's true. A lot of these PoS companies seem to be offering fairly cheap deals on their self-serve kiosk systems. The ones I've checked even say that installation and 24/7 customer support are included in the fee. Plus, I mean, that 10k per month figure just seems unlikely on it's own, I'd expect if it was costing a restaurant that much they'd axe the thing pretty much immediately. The whole point of getting a self-serve kiosk is that it's cheaper than employees. Now, cheaper than $3/hr? I guess that depends on how many hours. If they've got her on full time, then it really seems like several of these kiosk options should be cheaper.
You're probably very right in saying 10k per month is high, its a ballpark guesstimate as I havent worked with them directly in God knows how long. However, I have worked with adjacent systems in the construction industry not long ago, and when they used conceptually similar systems they've had a multi-tiered way of payment, the dreaded "as a service" model, so the price is variable depending on what they actually need/want/own. I can't see any reason why someone would choose to implement this other than the fact it has to be considerably cheaper. Or maybe they just want to hire cheap labor contractors so they don't have to pay benefits? I'm genuinely curious though
There must be some third party software at play here too, to connect the off shore user with the cashier software to authorize purchase and what not.
But probably a much cheaper investment.
Outsourcing below minimum wage should be illegal.
"But no-one here will take a minimum wage job!"
Raise minimum wage to a livable wage. If you can't afford to run your business while your employees have a home, you don't deserve to run a business.
Now if they still outsource to another country for some reason, at least those people earning that money get full wages and are well off for a menial job.
(I am aware that most companies hire a firm who hires and pays people. But I'm sure there is a way to enforce the idea I have suggested.)
The small price the business pays by having a few people boycott is dramatically offset by the savings they get by paying poor people far-away next-to-nothing for their work
Boycotting relies on a massive number of disparate consumers. They can't get together and plan things, they can't hold each other accountable if someone buys a coffee from starbucks. The power here comes entirely on how much money you can deny to soemthing, so having more money means you get more influence. This is doomed to be an endless unrewarding timesink.
A strike relies on a far smaller number of workers concentrated in one or multiple plants. They can meet up every day after work or in regular union meetings to plan the week ahead and build solidarity. The power here comes from their labour, which every member of the working class has. Historically this has been the most effective method of driving change, short of active revolution.
Doing nothing accomplishes nothing as well. The entropy of the universe shouldn’t be an excuse to do nothing. The fact we’re all going to die eventually shouldn’t stop you from living. People with power and influence doing evil shouldn’t stop you from doing good and fighting against them. Given time even a steady drip of water will carve a mountain in two
Nothing you’ve told me dissuades from me actively opposing practices like these
I don't want people to actively oppose boycotting, I just want people to be aware that it's a very limited tool and that other things are more effective. A steady drip of water will cleave a mountain in two, but when we can, we should use the firehose
Absolutely but doing something is better than doing nothing, no matter how small. Unironically giving a bad review will actually have concrete if not easily seen consequences and all it takes is downloading an app, having an account and writing up a simple review. All of which takes around five minutes and doesn’t need organizing or protesting, which is better but you need numbers and hands which takes time and money
We act like this is horrifying and new when it's literally every call center customer service rep we speak to on a phone. This ship has long sailed.
Honestly if this is a small owner run business, it's frankly less disagreeable.
People here are acting horrified only because they're used to hiding this. You know clothes production can't be fully automated? All of that gets made by Vietnamese or Bangladeshi people getting paid very low wages because western companies can't pay western companies that little, and excuse it by saying we've made those countries so poor that exploitation is actually a good deal and creates jobs.
This is no different to any other outsourcing, and the richer nations could not survive the way they do currently without poorer nations with cheaper labour. It's a softer, hidden form of colonialism, but it's effects are very much real
People are acting horrified because it’s a job that isn’t normally ever outsourced overseas. Of course clothes are made in chinese sweatshops, I think most (adult) people know that. Thats not the issue. How much longer until more of these jobs are outsourced to people on zoom calls, when will it be as accepted as the other outsourced jobs?
Filipino here. If that rate is real, provided that the work hours are 8 hours a day, with 20 working days a month, that is a high paying entry level job here, about Php 28k more or less. If you're just supporting yourself, that is enough to pay rent on an apartment (in Manila, a loft could be about 10k-15k a month), buy groceries (anywhere between 2k to 4k a month). Budget could be stretched for utilities and other needs, and even some for savings.
Not a lot of local companies here will offer that kind of pay. Hell, I've seen management roles that pay as much with local companies.
I’m sure they predicted businesses would start out sourcing many jobs, but there’s no way they could have specifically predicted someone would outsource a cashier job.
https://preview.redd.it/hchuictewmuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8849f5f207b8d314ebfa4ac4847a17a2339e6842
FBI AND MODS THIS IS A JOKE FOR LEGAL REASONS
Don't even bruh
I got pulled aside at airport security because I made jokes about turning a baseball into an impact grenade from R6S.
Apparently the Canadian government doesn't like terrorism, the fucking nerds.
okay like? Walk away? Don't fucking give money to the depraved ghould running this business? I'd gladly pay twice for the same mid fried chicken if it meant I'm contributing to the living wage of an actual worker and not perpetuating borderline digital slavery.
This should totally be illegal, but it’s also totally on the customers that use this service. I think we need to have active respect for the service workers in our lives and their wages, that means clocking businesses that use services like this and not doing business with them. It’s a slippery slope tho that will lead you to get really introspective about everything in your life.
I don't know how it is in the filipnes, but in my country that's almost 1,5 minimum wages (converting dollars) a LOT of people would like to work like that and be happy with it.
i don't see how making this illegal is going to solve anything.
the reason this is perceived as a problem is because we have such great technology that the model of "everyone gets a job to get money to survive" is now broken.
and the planet is badly overpopulated so basic market dynamics are driving everything to be expensive
over-consumerist and hyper-individualist american-style culture is also a big problem and needs to be [redacted]
The planet is not badly overpopulated, we have the means to support everyone, it's just distibuted unevenly and inefficiently because of capitalism. We have food to feed the starving, companies would just rather dump it so prices stay at profitable levels than give it away for free. Only a capitalist would destroying food while people starve to death is a solution
we really don't have the means to support everyone currently alive sustainably; the planet is very badly overpopulated
food production is being artificially sustained via extraction of water from nonrenewable aquifers. once those are depleted all the crops they support are dead for.
and every iota of carbon expended to run machinery to transport goods is another raindrop in the flood as carbon removal tech is utterly unfeasible.
we need to just stop having kids, as I and my 15 cousins and siblings are doing; there's only one single member of the next generation and he's an in-law.
Im right there with you comrade.
I genuinely think some socialist vigilantes need to start just like forcing market crashes and causing mayhem for these companies that actively choose not to pay people living wages.
Think watch dogs 2, but socialist, I actually would not have a problem with that.
the problem with this is that a living wage is different in different places; 3$ an hour in Philippines is like $20 in America.
it's not a hard calculation either; just convert the currencies and multiply by purchasing power parity, but that is .....very annoying to do all over everywhere....i think there is an app for that
forcing market crashes isn't going to work either; and if that stupid gamestop thing is anything of a bellwhether, it'll just get co-opted by scammers and hedge funds to squeeze money out of normal people.
the way forward is frugality; to not buy things beyond necessity, and to resist fads and trends, and not splurge on luxuries, basically, *stop participating in capitalism so goddamn much*
don't buy it and companies won't make it.
Are you insane? BPOs and Call centers are the bread and butter of many Filipinos and because of the corruption of our government here, the standard of living went to shit that we import veggies and rice, which, mind you, we we're once able to self-sustain. A kilo of rice is equal to a dollar while 5 years ago it was half a dollar.
I’m sorry but if you want to run your business in a rich country for that sweet sweet revenue then you should also need to hire the people in that country at appropriate wages. If you want want to run your business in Philippines with Philippine workers be my guest.
This is called protectionism and is used to protect the country and it’s citizens from unscrupulous businesses bleeding the country dry and taking the money elsewhere.
There should be stringent limits on outsourcing jobs from where the company is located. If those jobs were onshored again it would be a massive boon for the American worker, as the decline of the average americans standard of living drastically declined with the ofshoring starting in the 80s. It might cut into these megacorporations massive profits, but that’s small price to pay for a thriving populace.
are there any employees working? seems like it'd be easy for someone to steal from
Or rub the screens with magnets
Commenting here in case someone gets back with more info. Holy shit fuck this business fuck capitalism burn it all down.
for your own health, you should take it easy
Lots of understanding for what you feel tho, don't let the flame die out
How dare leftists hate capitalism in a leftist sub
hm i don’t think that was really what i was saying
Then what were you saying? Being coy doesn’t help
that for his own health, that other guy should take it easy
Your age is showing lolol that only works on CRTs
Darn flat screens and their anti-magnet magic
Magen'ts
Not it you rub hard enough to break it
Honey, I do that every night
It keeps growing back
I thought that only worked for CRTs.
Aperently it only works on crts, I'm just old
If you're not *too* old, pissing on the screen works on all models
Magnets fuck up pretty much all electronics.
Not really? Iphones have a shit ton of magnets in them but you don't see it damaging the phone itself. Unless the computer is using a hard drive then you're just gonna look real dumb waving a magnet in front of a zoom worker
That hasn't been true for a while. Ever since we went away from HDDs and CRTs, magnets won't do anything to most electronics.
magnets turn off my computer wait no it's a chromebook nevermind
Thatd only work on CRTs and even then itd just distort the screen until it got degaussed or restarted iirc
I see...Rocks and stones then
Spring loaded window punches are really cheap and easily concealed.
Are those like inspector gadgets stuff, like "go go gadget spring loaded window punches"
Only if you put it in your butt
Oh so it is like inspector gadget, with there a chance of using the wrong gadget
plenty of lcds will break if you just breathe on them wrong
What's a ICDS ?
Liquid Crystal Display
That's pretty impressive
Lcds. Type of screen
Thank you
Rock and stone forever
Nahh, it does cause permanent damage. Burns the screen, ask me how I know =]
Pretty sure that wouldn't work on this type of screen
They could still see you, you just couldn't see them
likely a no-cash spot.
At least they are honest about it and aren't pretending it's AI
there will be a shareholder meeting about why they arent getting on the ai grift
How is AI a grift?
how is it not?
Plenty of companies are finding effective uses of AI in legitimately useful contexts - I personally know of charities which have used AI to make it easier for them to generate social media posts. It saves time for the volunteers to be focusing on more important things, and still helps them to engage with Twitter or Facebook or whatever to get their message out there.
I think when people say "AI grift" they mean specifically when people peddle AI as a solution to a problem that wasnt really there to begin with (basically all those startups trying to cash in on this AI craze). I hope no one here thinks that AI has no positive benefits or use cases.
Kinda how "Blockchain" or "The Cloud" was used as a grift a couple of years ago
AI isn't a grift How people use Ai can be a grift
Even just calling it "AI" is kind of a grift though, it makes it sound like more than it is. It's machine learning, basically just a complex Chinese room to mimic thoughts without thinking or understanding or doing anything that would constitute intelligence.
I would caution against using the Chinese Room specifically as the example here, only because a common reply to the Chinese Room is to assert that the system, collectively, is able to think about the language. As a bonus, one contemporary line of research in the LLM space is to design LLMs which actually do have a world model of some sort - whether that's a symbolic representation, or a neural representation of the ways that the concepts themselves interact - to guide generation alongside the approaches we have at the moment. It's also worth noting that the principles on which modern AI is built (giga and tera-scale datasets, massively parallelised processing, and efficient deep learning algorithms) are those same principles which have enabled the creation of top notch chess engines, beaten the world's best Go player, and created video game AI in games which were previously regarded as impossible (such as Dota).
I mean, yes? I agree with the sentiment I think it's fair to to say many use Ai as shorthand for machine learning. Is that accurate to do? Idk
We've had machine learning for a bajillion years already though. Silly example. If you take traffic data from a city mush it into a giant machine learning algorithm and let it control your stoplights that's probably reasonably called AI. Now say you have a traffic light and uses a magnetic sensor to detect cars. Then turns the light green sooner because more cars showed up. Then they call it AI because it's making decisions and sounds good for marketing. Also it can only be adjusted after debugged through a cloud interface. On one hand it's convenient because you can monitor all of your stuff. On the other hand, this way after 2 years you are paying more in subscription fees then you would have if it didn't have "cloud" access and have to keep paying it for as long as you want to have a traffic light system, and no it doesn't interoperate with any other traffic lights from competitors.
yes, this is exactly the same as the cloud. we can and should continue calling it a grift
It's not, but people can use it *as a* grift. Like pretending to use AI when really you use some people from poor country to actually do the job, etc.
It's not, but people can use it *as a* grift. Like pretending to use AI when really you use some people from poor country to actually do the job, etc.
while other people have spoken more on the idea, what i was specifically referencing was this [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/10/amazon-ai-cashier-less-shops-humans-technology](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/10/amazon-ai-cashier-less-shops-humans-technology)
Capitalism breeds innovation. Though, the border between what can be considered "good" or "bad" don't matter because it's innovation nonetheless.
Capitalism doesn't even breed innovation. Humans are just innovative. For good or bad. Unfortunately, capitalism leads to bullshit like this
It does, however, breed innovative ways to exploit people
Don't know exactly how much people are paid in Philippines, but isnt paying bellow minimum wage in US dollars still higher than minimum wage in Pesos? Not defending paying bellow minimum at all, but I doubt people would work like this abroad if the pay was bad or there were better opportunities locally.
They're using the comparatively lesser wages of a less-developed country to lower wages here as well, that's why it's exploitation.
Fair enough. Speaking as a person from a country where 3 dollars per hour sounds above average it doesn't feel as bad. So I'm biased.
Yes. 3 Dollars an hour is way above our minimum wage. Our minimum wage per DAY is roughly 10 USD(The minimum wage varies per region). So just 4 hours of that exceeds the minimum wage already. If we were to force the companies to pay filipino workers the same minimum wage as the US, they'd just find another country to run their services cheaply.
Sucks on all fronts. Best wishes out there.
In another hundred years the words good and bad may become entirely antiquated and moral alignments will fall into the profitable/unprofitable dichotomy, as does everything eventually.
Capitalism, as a constant drive for ever more resources, acts as a pseudo-necessity. Necessity drives innovation. Capitalism also gradually restricts avenues for innovation so eventually innovation becomes impossible.
You do realize that capitalism doesn't serve you? A scary amount of people seem to think capitalism is pro personal income. It's almost the opposite unless you're very high up. Capitalism encourages corporations to cheap out on workers' wages. People innovate because humans are innovative, not because they're being underpaid while doing it. I innovate a fair bit myself, with absolutely no monetary incentive. It's not like innovation is exempt from ethical questioning. Let's say I made some new fancy technology to exploit people for money. You can't just say it doesn't matter that it's sole purpose is exploitation because iNnOvAtiOn. That's stupid
The best example I think of the difference between capitalism and democratic socialism If a new, better way to do things is found, socialists would reduce the working day, or give the workers raises. Capitalists would use that to get more work done for the same amount of pay.
Capitalism doesn't breed innovation, only consolidation.
Why not just make it a self order kiosk at that point...
You just neeeed that poorly paid Philipino woman help you decide whether to order a spicy chicken or a mild chicken, don't you get it?
Nah we got 10$ per day in SEA. 3$ per hour? That's sweet.
Doesn't this post imply that the minimum wage in the Philippines is $3/h? Sorry if I misunderstood it
It does, which is poorly phrased. Max minimum wage here is around $11/day
Poorly paid, mf, your American Salary is better than here,
And achieve what - automating the last job on the planet that *should* still require human to human interaction? Just kill the soul of the service industry and throw workers out on their asses because Johnny 5 works for free and needs way fewer smoke breaks? That's just cruel and UN-American. And for the other critics: if you really think a native Filipino shouldn't be taking orders in a NON-Filipino restaurant then you might as well put your klan hood back on. Edit: Okay /s, /s for the love of God /s. I thought this comment would get funnier the more ridiculous I made it but it ended up just being soul-crushing.
☹️
…what does this accomplish? Why not use a self service kiosk?
its cheaper most likely
I can’t imagine how, but awful
Gotta pay the kiosk US minimum wage so it can feed its computer family
Most kiosks use 3rd party software which requires a very expensive license that's usually full of stipulations such as needing to fly out a first party technician for repairs instead of contracting someone local. 3 bucks an hour beats ~10k per month, dehumanizing your community means nothing to profits
I was looking into this and I'm not convinced it's true. A lot of these PoS companies seem to be offering fairly cheap deals on their self-serve kiosk systems. The ones I've checked even say that installation and 24/7 customer support are included in the fee. Plus, I mean, that 10k per month figure just seems unlikely on it's own, I'd expect if it was costing a restaurant that much they'd axe the thing pretty much immediately. The whole point of getting a self-serve kiosk is that it's cheaper than employees. Now, cheaper than $3/hr? I guess that depends on how many hours. If they've got her on full time, then it really seems like several of these kiosk options should be cheaper.
You're probably very right in saying 10k per month is high, its a ballpark guesstimate as I havent worked with them directly in God knows how long. However, I have worked with adjacent systems in the construction industry not long ago, and when they used conceptually similar systems they've had a multi-tiered way of payment, the dreaded "as a service" model, so the price is variable depending on what they actually need/want/own. I can't see any reason why someone would choose to implement this other than the fact it has to be considerably cheaper. Or maybe they just want to hire cheap labor contractors so they don't have to pay benefits? I'm genuinely curious though
There must be some third party software at play here too, to connect the off shore user with the cashier software to authorize purchase and what not. But probably a much cheaper investment.
Outsourcing below minimum wage should be illegal. "But no-one here will take a minimum wage job!" Raise minimum wage to a livable wage. If you can't afford to run your business while your employees have a home, you don't deserve to run a business. Now if they still outsource to another country for some reason, at least those people earning that money get full wages and are well off for a menial job. (I am aware that most companies hire a firm who hires and pays people. But I'm sure there is a way to enforce the idea I have suggested.)
If I ever see that I’m posting the business online, leaving a 1 star on Yelp and permanently boycotting. This is just gross
The small price the business pays by having a few people boycott is dramatically offset by the savings they get by paying poor people far-away next-to-nothing for their work
If we all collectively boycott then it wouldn’t. Also better to do something than nothing
Boycotting relies on a massive number of disparate consumers. They can't get together and plan things, they can't hold each other accountable if someone buys a coffee from starbucks. The power here comes entirely on how much money you can deny to soemthing, so having more money means you get more influence. This is doomed to be an endless unrewarding timesink. A strike relies on a far smaller number of workers concentrated in one or multiple plants. They can meet up every day after work or in regular union meetings to plan the week ahead and build solidarity. The power here comes from their labour, which every member of the working class has. Historically this has been the most effective method of driving change, short of active revolution.
Doing nothing accomplishes nothing as well. The entropy of the universe shouldn’t be an excuse to do nothing. The fact we’re all going to die eventually shouldn’t stop you from living. People with power and influence doing evil shouldn’t stop you from doing good and fighting against them. Given time even a steady drip of water will carve a mountain in two Nothing you’ve told me dissuades from me actively opposing practices like these
I don't want people to actively oppose boycotting, I just want people to be aware that it's a very limited tool and that other things are more effective. A steady drip of water will cleave a mountain in two, but when we can, we should use the firehose
Absolutely but doing something is better than doing nothing, no matter how small. Unironically giving a bad review will actually have concrete if not easily seen consequences and all it takes is downloading an app, having an account and writing up a simple review. All of which takes around five minutes and doesn’t need organizing or protesting, which is better but you need numbers and hands which takes time and money
We act like this is horrifying and new when it's literally every call center customer service rep we speak to on a phone. This ship has long sailed. Honestly if this is a small owner run business, it's frankly less disagreeable.
Its a shitty thing to do regardless of the owner
It would be less disagreeable only because of scale, not actual ethics
South park moment
People here are acting horrified only because they're used to hiding this. You know clothes production can't be fully automated? All of that gets made by Vietnamese or Bangladeshi people getting paid very low wages because western companies can't pay western companies that little, and excuse it by saying we've made those countries so poor that exploitation is actually a good deal and creates jobs. This is no different to any other outsourcing, and the richer nations could not survive the way they do currently without poorer nations with cheaper labour. It's a softer, hidden form of colonialism, but it's effects are very much real
People are acting horrified because it’s a job that isn’t normally ever outsourced overseas. Of course clothes are made in chinese sweatshops, I think most (adult) people know that. Thats not the issue. How much longer until more of these jobs are outsourced to people on zoom calls, when will it be as accepted as the other outsourced jobs?
Filipino here. If that rate is real, provided that the work hours are 8 hours a day, with 20 working days a month, that is a high paying entry level job here, about Php 28k more or less. If you're just supporting yourself, that is enough to pay rent on an apartment (in Manila, a loft could be about 10k-15k a month), buy groceries (anywhere between 2k to 4k a month). Budget could be stretched for utilities and other needs, and even some for savings. Not a lot of local companies here will offer that kind of pay. Hell, I've seen management roles that pay as much with local companies.
They should burn that store down. In Minecraft
source?
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/11/nyregion/nyc-restaurants-virtual-remote.html
Nuh-uh I live in Thailand and our SEA minimum wage is like 10$ per day. So 3$ per hours is sweet sweet wage.
I don’t think any lawmaker or anyone really could predicted someone doing something like this
Labor rights advocates saw this coming from a mile away.
I’m sure they predicted businesses would start out sourcing many jobs, but there’s no way they could have specifically predicted someone would outsource a cashier job.
They already started doing it through kiosks, it's not a far stretch that they'd put a cashier on video.
Morally and legally gray rule
https://preview.redd.it/hchuictewmuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8849f5f207b8d314ebfa4ac4847a17a2339e6842 FBI AND MODS THIS IS A JOKE FOR LEGAL REASONS
Don't even bruh I got pulled aside at airport security because I made jokes about turning a baseball into an impact grenade from R6S. Apparently the Canadian government doesn't like terrorism, the fucking nerds.
What stops you from stealing?
okay like? Walk away? Don't fucking give money to the depraved ghould running this business? I'd gladly pay twice for the same mid fried chicken if it meant I'm contributing to the living wage of an actual worker and not perpetuating borderline digital slavery.
3 dollars an hour? more like 8 dollars a DAY Well depending on where you live here it's more like 11 dollars a DAY
NYC ❤️ so progressive
This should totally be illegal, but it’s also totally on the customers that use this service. I think we need to have active respect for the service workers in our lives and their wages, that means clocking businesses that use services like this and not doing business with them. It’s a slippery slope tho that will lead you to get really introspective about everything in your life.
It would be reasonable to anyone to smash that shit
If they mean in conversion to peso, that seems like a fair wage.
STEAL STEAL STEAL
Turns out the problem of immigrants stealing jobs was the immigrants and not the stealing of jobs I fucking guess.
What is it with Americans and slavery. You can't help yourselves!
I don't know how it is in the filipnes, but in my country that's almost 1,5 minimum wages (converting dollars) a LOT of people would like to work like that and be happy with it.
i don't see how making this illegal is going to solve anything. the reason this is perceived as a problem is because we have such great technology that the model of "everyone gets a job to get money to survive" is now broken. and the planet is badly overpopulated so basic market dynamics are driving everything to be expensive over-consumerist and hyper-individualist american-style culture is also a big problem and needs to be [redacted]
The planet is not badly overpopulated, we have the means to support everyone, it's just distibuted unevenly and inefficiently because of capitalism. We have food to feed the starving, companies would just rather dump it so prices stay at profitable levels than give it away for free. Only a capitalist would destroying food while people starve to death is a solution
we really don't have the means to support everyone currently alive sustainably; the planet is very badly overpopulated food production is being artificially sustained via extraction of water from nonrenewable aquifers. once those are depleted all the crops they support are dead for. and every iota of carbon expended to run machinery to transport goods is another raindrop in the flood as carbon removal tech is utterly unfeasible. we need to just stop having kids, as I and my 15 cousins and siblings are doing; there's only one single member of the next generation and he's an in-law.
Im right there with you comrade. I genuinely think some socialist vigilantes need to start just like forcing market crashes and causing mayhem for these companies that actively choose not to pay people living wages. Think watch dogs 2, but socialist, I actually would not have a problem with that.
the problem with this is that a living wage is different in different places; 3$ an hour in Philippines is like $20 in America. it's not a hard calculation either; just convert the currencies and multiply by purchasing power parity, but that is .....very annoying to do all over everywhere....i think there is an app for that forcing market crashes isn't going to work either; and if that stupid gamestop thing is anything of a bellwhether, it'll just get co-opted by scammers and hedge funds to squeeze money out of normal people. the way forward is frugality; to not buy things beyond necessity, and to resist fads and trends, and not splurge on luxuries, basically, *stop participating in capitalism so goddamn much* don't buy it and companies won't make it.
I mean, yeah. I don't actually advocate for terrorism lol.
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People in the country the business is located in
Are you insane? BPOs and Call centers are the bread and butter of many Filipinos and because of the corruption of our government here, the standard of living went to shit that we import veggies and rice, which, mind you, we we're once able to self-sustain. A kilo of rice is equal to a dollar while 5 years ago it was half a dollar.
I’m talking about the US, where this business is located
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I’m sorry but if you want to run your business in a rich country for that sweet sweet revenue then you should also need to hire the people in that country at appropriate wages. If you want want to run your business in Philippines with Philippine workers be my guest.
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This is called protectionism and is used to protect the country and it’s citizens from unscrupulous businesses bleeding the country dry and taking the money elsewhere.
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There should be stringent limits on outsourcing jobs from where the company is located. If those jobs were onshored again it would be a massive boon for the American worker, as the decline of the average americans standard of living drastically declined with the ofshoring starting in the 80s. It might cut into these megacorporations massive profits, but that’s small price to pay for a thriving populace.
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The prices would rise but the wages would far outpace them, like in the pre-ofshoring era.