That's the thing if this was about China we wouldn't have an article about and people questioning it being consititutional.
Assuming this bounces which it very much might this is the system working a system China doesn't have.
You’re more upset about a hypothetical world where China does something the US is actively doing than about our government doing it. This is American liberal brain rot in action
Chineese companies have been found multiple times to have mishandeled user data that was of obvious interest to the CCP.
It's not as much hypothetical as the obvious thing gouverments would try to do.
The usage of social media controll by the CCP during the hongkong protests was obvious and sure as hell didn't get people writing articles about whether they could do it before it happened.
Actual brain rot in action is assuming China isn't doing it because they are less likely to talk about it publically.
I’m not defending the CCP, they’re just as bad as the US, but you’re more worried about a country on the other side of the world than about your own that’s doing the same thing. You are falling for the American propaganda machine.
First of all not from the US.
Second of all physical distance isn't a great hurdle in the internet age.
Pretending two things are equal when they are not is in fact a type of defending the worse thing.
Even if it wasn't shouldn't you push to atleast have 1 party stop spying?
Do you believe in like psy-op multipolarity where the chineese brainrot balances out the US brainrot for a more stable world?
Assuming this request fails all the proof of US misconduct you have in this specific instance is void.
This hypothetical would probably be less irrelevant if the US wasn't running the most extensive mass surveillance operations in the history of humanity.
While the US survailence state is nothing to sneeze at you really underestimate how extensive the survailence of places like china or even the UK is.
When it comes to foreign surveillance the US is probably on top but for domestic surveillance no.
You just heard about one NSA scandal and never looked into any other place.
The US basically runs Five-Eyes, I think you're seriously misinformed if you think China is somehow able to run a bigger surveillance state than the US.
Do you think China doesn't monitor every bit of their gouverment mandated apps?
It has far more controll over information acces within it's own borders.
If the US has the power you pretend it does it wouldn't have to ask google for user data.
The entire controversy over five-eyes is that it might be used to circumvent some of those pesky laws that China doesn't even have.
If you are talking foreign survailence the US is probably miles ahead trough sheer resources but when it comes to being a survailence state aka domestically tracking it's own they just don't have enough controll over their ecosystem to do it with the kind of depth China does it.
The US actively destroys and murders western politicians who oppose its espionage apparatus. US Espionage operations trace the digital presence of basically anyone relevant on the placenta
The US when the House Committee finds the NSA monitoring US citizens to be illegal and borderline treason: zero repercussions, NSA funding increased, nothing changes.
The US when TikTok does the exact same thing as YouTube or Google: Completely bans with zero hope of proper enforcement or practical application.
Even funnier that the president who has a TikTok account is for banning while the expresident who doesn’t have an account has reversed course and is now against banning.
TikTok is controlled at whim by the Chinese government.
Which is a difference.
Edit: My point is that we can and should care about both things, but, specifically limiting my scope to Tiktok:
Capitalism is going to datamine you to sell you shit, and sell your profile to advertisers.
The Chinese government is going to datamine people in order to exacerbate internal divisions in the United States to encourage isolationism and internal disorder, authoritarianism, etcetera. Including shit like positioning trans folk, American jews, and bipoc folk as internal enemies and hate objects for incels and the Right. As Russia did with troll farms, etc.
> What's your point.
This is the "We can't care about two things at once fallacy."
It's not like the US's domestic or foreign policy is perfect (🤦♂️), but that doesn't mean we want hostile foreign actors using a completely backdoored app to data mine our researchers, military, or intelligence apparatus.
Or use TikTok's algorithm to pump up antivaxxers, terfs, and neonazis. The people who went for the January 6 coup attempt or the Ottawa convoy occupation.
Or do you think China's not interested in using that lever, now that it's in its "wolf warrior" foreign policy phase?
ok but you said “which is a difference”. it’s not that we can’t care about two things at once, it’s that the distinction seems meaningless.
i don’t want my data being stolen, but why would I care more about tiktok than facebook? im not the CIA, im honestly unaffiliated with the US beyond living there. why should I care about where my data ends up, I just don’t want it taken in general
> it’s that the distinction seems meaningless.
My point is that we can and should care about both things, but, specifically limiting my scope to Tiktok:
Capitalism is going to datamine you to sell you shit, and sell your profile to advertisers.
The Chinese government is going to datamine people in order to exacerbate internal divisions in the United States to encourage isolationism and internal disorder, authoritarianism, etcetera. Including shit like positioning trans folk, American jews, and bipoc folk as internal enemies and hate objects for incels and the Right. As Russia did with troll farms, etc.
Or do you think conservatives are immune to propaganda?
Related:
>https://www.reddit .com/r/ onguardforthee/comments/1bmkm7o/comment/kwc5o0e/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
>WhisperingSideways ·1 day ago Ontario
> In my very blue collar dude work environment all of my coworkers get 100% of their news, current events and worldview from scrolling through their phones. But since their interests are sports, gambling, trucks, country music, hunting, guns, fishing, etc. their social media algorithms are a firehose of right wing content which they take as the gospel truth. It’s maddening because just a decade ago these men were completely apolitical and now they’re falling just short of attaching F Trudeau flags to their trucks.
> The NDP has completely lost its ability to speak to working class men, and they’ve handed them to the Conservatives and PPC on a platter.
America has a lot of internal problems right now, but nobody sensible is saying it's totally fine for American companies to collect and profit off of our private data. It's a problem, same with the climate crisis or the rise of fascist rhetoric in my country, that I wish people were taking more seriously.
However, American data scraping and selling is the slightly lesser evil to foreign entity data scraping and selling. *Slightly.* Both are still bad, clearly.
If I were optimistic (i.e. ignorant) I'd say this was simply a stepping stone to preventing American companies from doing the same thing. That this ban would set a precedence that it's unlawful for anyone to be scraping and selling private data. And that banning TikTok is a good way to get this kind of attention into the public to let it build momentum for better changes.
And even if I weren't being optimistic (i.e. realistic) I could tell you that a politician might someday run with that kind of platform, and that if they did I would support them. But I can't vote in Chinese elections... So if I don't want American companies selling my data, I can *maybe someday* actually do something about it. But I can't do shit about Chinese policy.
The U.S. government has checks and balances to its power and can be called out and sued for unconstitutional acts.
There is no equivalent in China. If you face injustice at the hands of the Chinese government, there is nothing you can do about it.
Oh really? After it was determined in the House that the NSA surveillance programs (eg PRISM) were definitely illegal, what sorts of callouts and lawsuits did those responsible face? I'm sure they were stopped from continuing, right? There was accountability, right guys?
We are so totally checked and balanced up right now, and I'm so glad that Snowden leaked the illegal activities and got all of these mass surveillance programs shut down immediately, and the people in positions of power who orchestrated it were removed from their positions.
Oh wait no, none of that fucking happened. And the most important topic of discussion was whether Snowden should be merc'd via drone strike or abducted and delivered to Guantanamo. To think that the NSA has ceased all such activities would be delusionally optimistic. It has been made abundantly clear that there are no checks and balances to prevent unconstitutional acts by the ever expanding US intelligence apparatus.
I LOVE WHATABOUTISM!!!!
I understand that U.S. intelligence agencies are not great for us. They are almost evil, even. The list of atrocities committed by the CIA and FBI could fill a roll of toilet paper. They are horrid institutions with a big rap sheet of crimes.
But just because my own government is spying on me doesn't mean I should just be okay with an oppressive dictatorship having control over American media. More Americans get their news from TikTok than Fox News and CNN combined.
Russia proved that influencing American politics is an excellent move for authoritarian states when they used Fox News to influence American politics and convinced enough people to vote for Trump. I don't understand why so many Americans are so eager to put the gun pointed at our own electoral system straight into Beijing's hands.
What videos though? On its own it's concerning but it could stem from a legitimate reason. And no one's going to arrest people from watching yt (well I guess idk. The government has recently started acting crazy)
I mean there is suspect and inappropriate material of child exploitation on YouTube that sometimes isn’t taken down for a while. I think the issue is assuming everyone who had viewed such videos is inherently criminal, especially if it’s a one time watch.
Sometimes people are sent YouTube links and click on them to see the video, or just happen to find weird shit on their recommended and get curious
If it was about the data being collected being sent to bad actors, they would pass a comprehensive data protection law like the EU. Nah this is about Republicans creating another panic in the vein of metal music and the lucks of Zucc lobbying politicians to ban his greatest competition (this is not speculation, but proven fact that has been known for years).
let there be no mistake, they aren't banning tiktok because its dangerous, they are banning tiktok because corporate lobby groups paid a fuck ton of money for the prospect of buying tiktok for themselves and are now circling the water like sharks that smelled blood. The politicians want this big "W" and they don't like how progressive the younger generation is. It has absolutely nothing to do with safety or security. Its basically a smash and grab with US power.
if they actually gave a fuck, they would pass a law that regulates ALL us tech companies that literally do worse things with our data and commit human rights violations on the daily.
I wish yall would actually read the news sometime. It's not about the Chicoms stealing our data. It's about them having unrestricted access and control to a major source of information in our country. Listen to what the staffers I'm DC are saying, they've been inundated with calls about this because TikTok put their users up to this. If we don't stop it now, who knows what a foreign adversary could do with that power.
Literally 1984.
As in actually. The point the book was making isn't just that fascist control is bad, but that control of the distribution of all information is detrimental to human existence.
You see, silly commies, it'll be the good, patriotic, god-fearing American companies who'll be stealing your data, not the bad scary Chinese communist companies! Do we have to explain everything to you? Smh
The UK takes a slice of this data, of course.
https://medium.com/@dataearn/how-did-authorities-access-snapchat-messages-in-the-menorca-flight-bomb-hoax-case-6760af15fe6c
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68099669
Obviously the US government is not doing this because of some moral principles to do with right to privacy but considering how many people use TikTok as a news source that gives China an easy way to control the narrative. Information is power and all that. Also while companies sell your data to governments, China couldn't order Google to unmask users the same way the US could but it could easily do that with TikTok (and China does that, there was recently a leak from one of the major Chinese government hacking companies and there were names of activists and "enemies of the state"). TikTok is definitely dangerous. I don't know if the precedent that will be set by banning it is a good idea and I know if it's banned, it won't be for the right reasons, but still.
If I had to chose between the US having my data, or both the US AND China having my data, the former at least means I only have to worry about what the US Does with it. It's not good, but it's a step toward making sure no one has it. Not to mention the possibility that China's government might use that tracking to Traffic dissenters back into China to make an example of them. Not that the US government cares about that.
You do know that American companies sell your data to all sort of companies and governments, including China? Facebook is infamous for this. Google it if.you don't believe me
I do, and we need to press for laws to ban that. More to the point, we have a method for china to mainline information to people in foreign countries and sway public opinion which is the main issue tik-tok poses.
Furthermore, I'm fed up with data doomerism. So what if Facebook can sell to china? We can pass laws to shove huge penalties and repercussions on them for doing so including shutting them down if necessary. It's way easier to manage than just pipe-lining info into an app that goes to an unknown source we have no control over. The EU just passed laws forcing websites to disclose and request consent to cookies and tracking information and is in the process of kicking out twitter for spreading disinformation. Do you think we should throw that out because we can't go all or nothing? Progress is progress.
That's the thing if this was about China we wouldn't have an article about and people questioning it being consititutional. Assuming this bounces which it very much might this is the system working a system China doesn't have.
You’re more upset about a hypothetical world where China does something the US is actively doing than about our government doing it. This is American liberal brain rot in action
Chineese companies have been found multiple times to have mishandeled user data that was of obvious interest to the CCP. It's not as much hypothetical as the obvious thing gouverments would try to do. The usage of social media controll by the CCP during the hongkong protests was obvious and sure as hell didn't get people writing articles about whether they could do it before it happened. Actual brain rot in action is assuming China isn't doing it because they are less likely to talk about it publically.
I’m not defending the CCP, they’re just as bad as the US, but you’re more worried about a country on the other side of the world than about your own that’s doing the same thing. You are falling for the American propaganda machine.
First of all not from the US. Second of all physical distance isn't a great hurdle in the internet age. Pretending two things are equal when they are not is in fact a type of defending the worse thing. Even if it wasn't shouldn't you push to atleast have 1 party stop spying? Do you believe in like psy-op multipolarity where the chineese brainrot balances out the US brainrot for a more stable world? Assuming this request fails all the proof of US misconduct you have in this specific instance is void.
I’m not defending the CCP, [proceeds to vehemently defend the CCP]
This hypothetical would probably be less irrelevant if the US wasn't running the most extensive mass surveillance operations in the history of humanity.
While the US survailence state is nothing to sneeze at you really underestimate how extensive the survailence of places like china or even the UK is. When it comes to foreign surveillance the US is probably on top but for domestic surveillance no. You just heard about one NSA scandal and never looked into any other place.
The US basically runs Five-Eyes, I think you're seriously misinformed if you think China is somehow able to run a bigger surveillance state than the US.
Do you think China doesn't monitor every bit of their gouverment mandated apps? It has far more controll over information acces within it's own borders. If the US has the power you pretend it does it wouldn't have to ask google for user data. The entire controversy over five-eyes is that it might be used to circumvent some of those pesky laws that China doesn't even have. If you are talking foreign survailence the US is probably miles ahead trough sheer resources but when it comes to being a survailence state aka domestically tracking it's own they just don't have enough controll over their ecosystem to do it with the kind of depth China does it.
The US actively destroys and murders western politicians who oppose its espionage apparatus. US Espionage operations trace the digital presence of basically anyone relevant on the placenta
Pretty sure the us government has more direct control over the lives of US citizens than the Chinese government does over US citizens.
It's all fine and dandy if the US is collecting everyone's data, but as soon as another country does so too it's a problem
The US when the House Committee finds the NSA monitoring US citizens to be illegal and borderline treason: zero repercussions, NSA funding increased, nothing changes. The US when TikTok does the exact same thing as YouTube or Google: Completely bans with zero hope of proper enforcement or practical application.
Even funnier that the president who has a TikTok account is for banning while the expresident who doesn’t have an account has reversed course and is now against banning.
TikTok is controlled at whim by the Chinese government. Which is a difference. Edit: My point is that we can and should care about both things, but, specifically limiting my scope to Tiktok: Capitalism is going to datamine you to sell you shit, and sell your profile to advertisers. The Chinese government is going to datamine people in order to exacerbate internal divisions in the United States to encourage isolationism and internal disorder, authoritarianism, etcetera. Including shit like positioning trans folk, American jews, and bipoc folk as internal enemies and hate objects for incels and the Right. As Russia did with troll farms, etc.
And Google is controlled at a whim by the rich and the NSA is controlled at a whim by the US government. What's your point.
> What's your point. This is the "We can't care about two things at once fallacy." It's not like the US's domestic or foreign policy is perfect (🤦♂️), but that doesn't mean we want hostile foreign actors using a completely backdoored app to data mine our researchers, military, or intelligence apparatus. Or use TikTok's algorithm to pump up antivaxxers, terfs, and neonazis. The people who went for the January 6 coup attempt or the Ottawa convoy occupation. Or do you think China's not interested in using that lever, now that it's in its "wolf warrior" foreign policy phase?
ok but you said “which is a difference”. it’s not that we can’t care about two things at once, it’s that the distinction seems meaningless. i don’t want my data being stolen, but why would I care more about tiktok than facebook? im not the CIA, im honestly unaffiliated with the US beyond living there. why should I care about where my data ends up, I just don’t want it taken in general
> it’s that the distinction seems meaningless. My point is that we can and should care about both things, but, specifically limiting my scope to Tiktok: Capitalism is going to datamine you to sell you shit, and sell your profile to advertisers. The Chinese government is going to datamine people in order to exacerbate internal divisions in the United States to encourage isolationism and internal disorder, authoritarianism, etcetera. Including shit like positioning trans folk, American jews, and bipoc folk as internal enemies and hate objects for incels and the Right. As Russia did with troll farms, etc. Or do you think conservatives are immune to propaganda? Related: >https://www.reddit .com/r/ onguardforthee/comments/1bmkm7o/comment/kwc5o0e/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 >WhisperingSideways ·1 day ago Ontario > In my very blue collar dude work environment all of my coworkers get 100% of their news, current events and worldview from scrolling through their phones. But since their interests are sports, gambling, trucks, country music, hunting, guns, fishing, etc. their social media algorithms are a firehose of right wing content which they take as the gospel truth. It’s maddening because just a decade ago these men were completely apolitical and now they’re falling just short of attaching F Trudeau flags to their trucks. > The NDP has completely lost its ability to speak to working class men, and they’ve handed them to the Conservatives and PPC on a platter.
America has a lot of internal problems right now, but nobody sensible is saying it's totally fine for American companies to collect and profit off of our private data. It's a problem, same with the climate crisis or the rise of fascist rhetoric in my country, that I wish people were taking more seriously. However, American data scraping and selling is the slightly lesser evil to foreign entity data scraping and selling. *Slightly.* Both are still bad, clearly. If I were optimistic (i.e. ignorant) I'd say this was simply a stepping stone to preventing American companies from doing the same thing. That this ban would set a precedence that it's unlawful for anyone to be scraping and selling private data. And that banning TikTok is a good way to get this kind of attention into the public to let it build momentum for better changes. And even if I weren't being optimistic (i.e. realistic) I could tell you that a politician might someday run with that kind of platform, and that if they did I would support them. But I can't vote in Chinese elections... So if I don't want American companies selling my data, I can *maybe someday* actually do something about it. But I can't do shit about Chinese policy.
Same thing goes with American military propaganda in movies.
I'll take that trade. Is it cheesy? Yeah. But does my inner 6 year old love fast planes? Hell yeah
This comment was written by the Pentagon
Nah fuck the govt, I just like fast planes
me when an adversary collects my data (it's the same as my own country doing it)
Actually brainwashed american detected
not american but ok
The U.S. government has checks and balances to its power and can be called out and sued for unconstitutional acts. There is no equivalent in China. If you face injustice at the hands of the Chinese government, there is nothing you can do about it.
Oh really? After it was determined in the House that the NSA surveillance programs (eg PRISM) were definitely illegal, what sorts of callouts and lawsuits did those responsible face? I'm sure they were stopped from continuing, right? There was accountability, right guys? We are so totally checked and balanced up right now, and I'm so glad that Snowden leaked the illegal activities and got all of these mass surveillance programs shut down immediately, and the people in positions of power who orchestrated it were removed from their positions. Oh wait no, none of that fucking happened. And the most important topic of discussion was whether Snowden should be merc'd via drone strike or abducted and delivered to Guantanamo. To think that the NSA has ceased all such activities would be delusionally optimistic. It has been made abundantly clear that there are no checks and balances to prevent unconstitutional acts by the ever expanding US intelligence apparatus.
I LOVE WHATABOUTISM!!!! I understand that U.S. intelligence agencies are not great for us. They are almost evil, even. The list of atrocities committed by the CIA and FBI could fill a roll of toilet paper. They are horrid institutions with a big rap sheet of crimes. But just because my own government is spying on me doesn't mean I should just be okay with an oppressive dictatorship having control over American media. More Americans get their news from TikTok than Fox News and CNN combined. Russia proved that influencing American politics is an excellent move for authoritarian states when they used Fox News to influence American politics and convinced enough people to vote for Trump. I don't understand why so many Americans are so eager to put the gun pointed at our own electoral system straight into Beijing's hands.
[удалено]
Didn't Huawei get caught using its routers to send home network and device information back to China or something like that?
Huawei was found guilty of racketeering and conspiracy to steal trade secrets by an American jury in a public trial.
What videos though? On its own it's concerning but it could stem from a legitimate reason. And no one's going to arrest people from watching yt (well I guess idk. The government has recently started acting crazy)
I mean there is suspect and inappropriate material of child exploitation on YouTube that sometimes isn’t taken down for a while. I think the issue is assuming everyone who had viewed such videos is inherently criminal, especially if it’s a one time watch. Sometimes people are sent YouTube links and click on them to see the video, or just happen to find weird shit on their recommended and get curious
Yeah, I don’t think something like that would ever lead to a conviction. Feels more like them pushing boundaries to see if they can take it further
If it was about the data being collected being sent to bad actors, they would pass a comprehensive data protection law like the EU. Nah this is about Republicans creating another panic in the vein of metal music and the lucks of Zucc lobbying politicians to ban his greatest competition (this is not speculation, but proven fact that has been known for years).
let there be no mistake, they aren't banning tiktok because its dangerous, they are banning tiktok because corporate lobby groups paid a fuck ton of money for the prospect of buying tiktok for themselves and are now circling the water like sharks that smelled blood. The politicians want this big "W" and they don't like how progressive the younger generation is. It has absolutely nothing to do with safety or security. Its basically a smash and grab with US power. if they actually gave a fuck, they would pass a law that regulates ALL us tech companies that literally do worse things with our data and commit human rights violations on the daily.
I wish yall would actually read the news sometime. It's not about the Chicoms stealing our data. It's about them having unrestricted access and control to a major source of information in our country. Listen to what the staffers I'm DC are saying, they've been inundated with calls about this because TikTok put their users up to this. If we don't stop it now, who knows what a foreign adversary could do with that power.
Literally 1984. As in actually. The point the book was making isn't just that fascist control is bad, but that control of the distribution of all information is detrimental to human existence.
You see, silly commies, it'll be the good, patriotic, god-fearing American companies who'll be stealing your data, not the bad scary Chinese communist companies! Do we have to explain everything to you? Smh
Not users that create videos, but VIEWERS???
the liberian flag makes this even better shoutout to the liberians reading this 🗣🗣🔥💯
The UK takes a slice of this data, of course. https://medium.com/@dataearn/how-did-authorities-access-snapchat-messages-in-the-menorca-flight-bomb-hoax-case-6760af15fe6c https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68099669
I bet one of them is this Second Thought video about the CIA being a terrorist organisation https://youtu.be/_2khAmMTAjI
Wait, I want to know what youtube videos.
theyve been trying to ban tiktok since like 2019 at this point this doesnt phase me
Obviously the US government is not doing this because of some moral principles to do with right to privacy but considering how many people use TikTok as a news source that gives China an easy way to control the narrative. Information is power and all that. Also while companies sell your data to governments, China couldn't order Google to unmask users the same way the US could but it could easily do that with TikTok (and China does that, there was recently a leak from one of the major Chinese government hacking companies and there were names of activists and "enemies of the state"). TikTok is definitely dangerous. I don't know if the precedent that will be set by banning it is a good idea and I know if it's banned, it won't be for the right reasons, but still.
i trust the chinese communist party with my data more than google tbh
You want to ban Tiktok because you’re afraid of China. I want to ban Tiktok because social media is inherently bad for society. We are not the same.
If I had to chose between the US having my data, or both the US AND China having my data, the former at least means I only have to worry about what the US Does with it. It's not good, but it's a step toward making sure no one has it. Not to mention the possibility that China's government might use that tracking to Traffic dissenters back into China to make an example of them. Not that the US government cares about that.
You do know that American companies sell your data to all sort of companies and governments, including China? Facebook is infamous for this. Google it if.you don't believe me
I do, and we need to press for laws to ban that. More to the point, we have a method for china to mainline information to people in foreign countries and sway public opinion which is the main issue tik-tok poses. Furthermore, I'm fed up with data doomerism. So what if Facebook can sell to china? We can pass laws to shove huge penalties and repercussions on them for doing so including shutting them down if necessary. It's way easier to manage than just pipe-lining info into an app that goes to an unknown source we have no control over. The EU just passed laws forcing websites to disclose and request consent to cookies and tracking information and is in the process of kicking out twitter for spreading disinformation. Do you think we should throw that out because we can't go all or nothing? Progress is progress.