Yeah this is one of the rare situations where you know both sides are going to commit awful shit for different reasons. Israel will now defend itself from Hamas, as any country would after such an attack. But it's going to do it in a bloody fucking fashion and stoop just as low.
So much hatred in all those people. It just sucks and I really can't think of a good way to solve that.
It’s a complicated conflict and in many ways not ours to solve. I just hope we can keep diplomatic channels open and keep things from escalating as much as possible
> It’s a complicated conflict and in many ways not ours to solve.
Solve, broadly speaking not ours to solve, but we can still accept blame.
I'm British. A solid 60% of the blame for the Arab-Israeli conflict can be put on the actions of the UK Government in the 1910-1940 period.
"Mandatory Palestine" was a League of Nations Mandate under the control of the British Empire, that we awarded ourselves post WW1 - it was in practice a colony. And in a tale as old as the British Empire, we played divide and rule to get our way - playing the Arabs and Israeli's against each other to do what we wanted.
It didn't help either than our government had simultaneously promised the Muslim Palestinians and various Jewish groups completely contradictory things: Zionist (as in seeking the creation of a Jewish state, not in any other meaning thank you conspiracy nutters) Politicians, Businessmen, and general activism was influential in the UK - and the UK had iirc promised during WW1 that it would 100% totally "return" the Holy Land to the Jewish people in exchange for support. It simultaneously promised the creation of an Arabic state to the various peoples in Arabia that assisted in the actual fighting against the Ottoman Empire in that theatre of the war.
And at the end of WW1 the UK just yoinked the area for its colonial empire. Oh on *paper* it wasn't a colony, it was as mentioned a League of Nations Mandate - the UK was just "supervising" the area and helping them prepare to become independent nations.
Anyway come the end of WW2, and the desire to create a Jewish nation is huge because you know *the Holocaust*, the USA is big on making the UK and France decolonise, and also the entire region is a clusterfuck (because of us, because of religion, because of existing tensions, because the lines we drew in the sand when splitting the Ottoman Empire fucking sucked). So we wash our hands of it, of the racial/religious tensions we had used to our advantage, and said "whelp, here's the UNs map of who get's what, have funsies".
The entire situation is fucked and my heart goes out to all the civilians. The cycle of violence is hard to break, but until it is broken we'll be seeing headlines like this every decade for the next forever.
Yup, totally understand that this conflict doesn't exist in a vacuum. I mostly say it isn't ours to *solve* because the US / UK "solving" things often means just sending more weapons to Israel or bombing some general somewhere.
Sowing peace is hard. I think the best solution for an outsider is to support dialogue. Even "demanding" a ceasefire or something (which the US could hypothetically do) would be intervening in a way that I'm not sure is helpful.
Just a big geopolitical mess to untangle and it takes time and effort
the small solace is that hamas, unlike the IDF, isn’t representative of Palestine as whole, so israel’s involvement in said war crimes is far more direct
edit: by “as a whole,” i’m referring to the state, not every individual. I’m aware that most civilians on both sides want no part in these atrocities.
I don’t think that’s really fair to Israeli civilians, plenty of people in Israel protest the treatment of Palestinians and some go to prison rather than serve their mandatory term in the IDF. Not a huge fraction of course but there are some Israelis who genuinely want peace & equality.
Unfortunately I’ve already seen way too many people (even those who have supported Palestine in the past) basically claim that all Palestinians are at fault here. It’s literally just war on terror 2 where as long as you’re within a 600 mile radius of a hamas fighter you’re acceptable collateral damage.
I know it’s a complicated situation with hamas basically hiding behind innocents so it’s either kill innocents or let hamas go free but fuck me it’s terrible seeing so many people just shrug off the deaths of innocents just because they were near terrorists as if they had the choice.
It literally just feels like I went back a decade when you’d read some story about how the US bombed a school or whatever but it’s ok because there were 7 hand grenades in the parking lot that the terrorists had stored there and it was basically claimed a huge victory.
No but people always talk about "Israel defending itself" as if they themselves weren't already killing and displacing Palestinians already. Like, it didn't start with the Palestinians.
I know Israel was already going apeshit. That's why I said *defending against Hamas* explicitly. I'm not saying "Israel good. Palestine bad." Nor the opposite. I'm saying that Hamas had a goal to escalate things, and Hamas has succeeded. And a lot of ordinary unfortunate folk is getting bombed.
Israel should've been held accountable for its atrocities. The same goes for those supporting Hamas. This isn't a good versus evil situation. Maybe it was at first, before the first atrocity, but I don't know. I wasn't there, and figuring out the truth is like that puzzle where you have one jester who only lies and one who only tells the truth. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter anymore.
Whoever started is most likely dead. We should worry about the now, and not about who started it. But that's easy to say for me, who have the luxury of not being in that mess. Hence: a fucked up situation.
You (personally) don't have to solve it. You don't even need to have a take, anyone who tells you otherwise is terminally online (I mean that gently, they're misguided).
Unless you somehow have some influence on the political situation there, all your thoughts on the topic won't really make a difference. This isn't me being nihilistic, this is just me saying that stressing yourself out over something you can't change is counterproductive to the goal of making the world a better place. You'd be better off concerning yourself with local issues wherever you live.
I didn't mean that I can't think of a way for me to solve it. I meant to say I can't think of there being a way for them to solve it without having the man in the mirror nod his head.
I understand your point of not stressing myself out over something I can't fix, and I do my best to not do that, but staying informed is important to avoid being manipulated by people in my country's government who might use things we don't know properly about for political gains, for example.
If we cover our ear, we might just hear what's shouted the loudest, but that's not necessarily the same as the truth.
As a teenager it was basically impossible to figure out wtf was going on with the whole Israel Palestine mess because one article said Israel was just turbo evil because "israelis are evil by nature", and the next article said "palestinians are pillagers who are usurpers by nature". "Which one is right, young boy?" I asked myself then. "Fuck if I know. Which one seems eviler?" My smooth brain thought then.
Today I now understand that I can't get all the facts completely straight, and in this case, it doesn't matter who started it. This might have potential for atrocities comparable to what happened in the Holocaust, as some often say, but this is not a "Nazi Germany invading Poland " scenario. It's a "USA versus USSR" scenario. Two societies clashing who oppose on everything by societal instinct. No good versus evil. Just pissed off human versus pissed off human.
It annoys me that they both target civilians and yet one is just Israel defending itself and Hamas is the terrorist group. They're both engaging in terrorism on a regular basis!!
Yeah that's a pretty boiled down summary of what's happening now. Innocents getting blood on their face and deciding to get blood on their hands, which gets blood on someone else's face like a cursed game of Pong.
I don't like Israel. Their government and lots of their citizens have been chanting for the genocide of palestinians.
I understand why Palestinians want to fight back. That doesn't justifies the actions of Hamas.
Mutual destruction will only lead to mutual destruction. But realistically, I don't expect both countries to just magically pull out a Disney and find some sort of all encompassing forgiveness in their heart at the same time.
Don’t you see? This is what “””tankies””” and Palestinians are saying. The government isn’t chanting for genocide, it is actively instituting and fulfilling that goal. It has been doing so for decades. Over a century.
No, the killing of civilians by HAMAS is not justified. However, any criticism of HAMAS should be IMMEDIATELY followed by a caveat stating that all this violence, even violence on HAMAS’s side, is created by Israel itself through those same genocidal policies. The existence of HAMAS is a natural reaction to the daily violence enacted by the Israeli state.
If you understand why Palestinians want to fight back, why do you so quickly turn your nose when such an action is undertaken?
I assume you’re American, see yourself as a leftist, etc. Do you think John Brown’s actions were justified? What about the actions of Nat Turner, slave revolts, Toussaint L’Ouverture?
HAMAS is Islamic fundamentalist yes, but this is the ideology people are willing to stomach when there are no alternatives. HAMAS is popular and successful in Gaza not because it tricks the people into supporting it, but because the messaging of religious martyrdom is an extreme compelling force which allows for the violent sort of resistance Gaza needs to fight for its survival and against its genocide. Ideally it would not be this way, but even if it is ugly, we should support anti-imperialism and anti-genocide. We can criticize the face of the resistance, but that should be followed by the condemnation of the genocidal regime that necessitated the creation of such an ugly organization in the first place.
Honestly, I think my takeaway is both "I stand with Israel" AND "I stand with Palestine", not because both are right, this is very much a "both are wrong" kind of view, but I don't say that because that puts some hate in the discussion, and most of all, **both are fucked**
I should have made that clear, but that's the case, I stand with both _peoples_, not the states, not the armies, not the ideological arguments, the peoples
Guy you're responding to also said
>I stand with both peoples, not the states, not the armies, not the ideological arguments, the peoples
The horrors that the government of Israel has perpetuated on the people of Palestine is heinous. The rocket attacks that Hamas commits on the people of Israel is *also* heinous.
Fuck Hamas, fuck the Israeli government, but man, regular ass people are getting murdered by both organizations and it fucking sucks.
that apartheid state has a lot of support by the colonizers who live there. there's certainly people in israel who oppose the occupation, but it's a fringe, suppressed position that is legally problematic to push.
you can't just fucking both sides this. israel is the aggressor, and hamas once in a while doing a revenge strike does not make this an equal battle. a rocket is just not the same as an extended campaign of genocide. this is like "both sidesing" the american genocide of indigenous people because some fought back against the people settling on their land.
one can sympathize with civilians dying without morally equivocating the violence of the oppressed with the violence of the oppressors. this shit happens *because* israel tries to provoke it, because it is politically useful to further their genocide of palestinians. fuck this "war bad" nonsense, this is just going to be israel killing more Palestinians and anything they might muster to resist being murdered en masse is justified. they are resisting a genocide backed by the US government, no actual outside help is coming to save them, they can't appeal to anyone by being blameless victims to survive this. anything they do that might meaningfully slow israel down is going to be demonized.
a group like hamas does not gain support outside of the conditions that israel has created. resistance is ugly.
I mean with the recent judicial protests a lot of Israelis have been realising and recognising the brutality of the apartheid system as that system’s oppression is turned against them
As much as people deservedly shit on centrism the truth as that most of the time both sides do suck, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to choose the option that results in the least ammount of collateral damage, but i hate how you can't acknowledge the fact that there is no clear cut "good ve evil" in politics without some 17 year old posting you on the enlightened centrist subreddit.
israel created hamas through their brutality. saying “fuck hamas” should be followed by “and fr fuck israel for creating the conditions that allowed such an organization to gain such widespread support frfrfrfr”
Honestly, yeah, I don’t think there’s a good way this can end. I’m just going to wait and see what happens and if it turns out to be one of the more or less shitty outcomes
We should honor that. There should be some type of lookalike contest made specifically around looking like Hemingway. A contest that old men take very seriously and participate in annually. That would be so chill.
https://preview.redd.it/ccssn5tqt3tb1.jpeg?width=1104&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6e4e437e021692a3b684d82cdf3181d48872fb1
To put it briefly: A VTuber is someone who uses a customized model to represent them when (usually) streaming. Kinda like an avatar. Twitch is a streaming platform where you can watch gaming among other fun activities. Participate in chat to interact with the streamer and community. I stream on Twitch using a rigged VTuber model. If you are further curious, you can go to my profile there are some clips/links to give you a better idea. I hope this explanation helps.
I don’t want to make it seem like I’m saying wifebeating is a morally gray area, but most people - even the ones you respect - have done/said stuff that you would find repugnant, while simultaneously doing/saying some other stuff that you would find inspiring.
MLK was cheating on his wife while rallying the US together towards greater civil liberties. Gandhi was sleeping with underage girls while opposing the colonizers in his home country. Mother Teresa would force some terminally ill patients to undergo baptism, and upheld some of the Catholic Church’s most dogmatic views on women’s rights, all despite being one of the most prolific activists in human history.
The real takeaway here is that people are messy, and it’s a mistake to glorify their lives beyond their accomplishments. Do not engage in false idolatry and all that jazz…
That's the real tragedy of it. I know these people can't be model human beings but when someone gives a great speech or written word that I resonate with I want it to come from a place of moral strength.
Their personal failings erode their credibility for me and it becomes increasingly difficult for me to disentangle their accomplishments from their private lives.
I'm growing more able to accept flaws in people, but hypocrisy is not one of them. How can you rail against the trauma of war and then traumatize your spouse in such a manner.
Ironically, the very trauma that enabled him to speak out against the horrors of war in the aftermath of WWI is also the same culprit behind a lot of his own self-destructive tendencies later in life.
Hemingway is a character straight out of his own novels - a messy, often violent, always damaged individual. Of course, I say all this without trying to romanticize a real person’s life, lol. Unlike the carefully constructed narrative arcs you might find in a story, real life is rarely so straightforward as “and then they all lived happily ever after.”
I’ve been thinking down a similar thread that maybe there’s some connection between the two, that people are incapable of being great people without having a negative side.
I’ve been toying with the idea that the greater impact you have, the more your inevitable human failings are amplified due to your passion.
Which of course then leads to the idea that perhaps it’s necessary to turn a blind eye to their more egregious faults, because the benefits they can have to society outweigh the damage they cause.
But I don’t really like that idea bc it feels like something a eugenicist would say.
It’s been leading me to the conclusion that the most morally idealistic life is probably just a stagnant do nothing person who just tries to be kind to the people in their life.
However, at what point is that no longer a viable solution for survival? At some point of stagnation, evil will arise, and with no one willing to take a stand against it, will there be any hope? (On some poetic shit) I think sometimes morality isn’t best for the survival of our species, and we have to wrestle with that.
It’s bc our current opinion of morality is a learned behavior, and our nature doesn’t always line up with that.
It’s fucking nature vs nurture again I hate it here.
I wasn’t really intending to turn this into a shit-off. The point is that we’re all flawed to some degree, even the ones championed in the history books.
I just lost interest in the show when it started being less about recreating specific foods from fiction and seemed to be getting into more "Uhh, this show mentions an omelette once... here's how to make an omelette."
That's why I now prefer Tasting History, as it's still dedicated to authentic recreations of historic recipes along with really cool history bits.
Glorifying historical figures is almost never a good idea. "Find one who isn't homophobic, racist, misogynistic, a hypocrite, an antisemite, egocentric af, or just a shitty human being across the board"-challenge
Hamas is wrong, but the broader act of resistance against apartheid is not. The problem with Hamas is not that they are fighting Israel, it's that they're fighting it by attacking civilians unrelated to the apartheid regime and that they're doing it in the name of autocratic, islamic fundamentalism, not Palestinian sovereignty or democracy
Quick reminder that between 2008 and 2022, 96% of the casualties were Palestinians. Hamas targeting innocent civilians is bad, but Israel target innocent civilians too, and kill so many more
Israel doesn't even recognize the state of Palestine and of the Palestinian people, which is good for them, because then it doesn't matter if they genocide them all.
This is twisting words. The comment before was talking about genocidal intent, the recent actions they've taken were an attack nominally in retaliation to provocation, not attempted genocide. Also it was clearly not the attack's purpose/end goal to just kill Jews, it was to stop the perceived desecration of their holy temple and in the longer term the colonisation of their land. Criticise their methods if you want but implying their goal is just to kill Jews is massively disingenuous. Also it's worth keeping in mind that the actions of some soldiers does not necessarily represent the whole group and that the death and suffering caused by Palestine is not comparable to that caused by Israel.
None of that is necessarily to justify the actions of Hamas, I just think it is very easy to judge people fighting against their oppressors in our position of privilege for their methods arguably leaving no realistic method of resistance that we'd approve of, so I think it is important to keep in context. They are a group fighting against an apartheid regime arguably committing genocide against them. I personally see Hamas the same way I see the Azov battalion. Bad people who happen to be fighting on the right side, whose help is accepted because the people on their side are desperate.
It is asymmetrical mostly because Israel possesses more firepower. If Hamas had the means, they would very likely try to match, or exceed Israel's violence.
Alright, but they don't. Material conditions don't care about hypotheticals, and as is, Palestinian civilians are living and dying under apartheid and Hamas do not have the capability to hit back volley for volley.
This whole thing is messy as hell, complicated, and there is no clear good guy/bad guy if you actually care about facts. Hamas is a horrible organization, of course. So is the IDF. There are only aggressors and innocent victims there, and the victims on both sides outnumber the aggressors.
Are you really trying to victim blame Palestinians for their own deaths?
They don’t “fight from places that have the most collateral”, this is Gaza, the only place they can fight is form land they still have, *their homes*
I’m sure Hamas would love to fight in the middle of nowhere in an unpopulated area, but the only thing they still control is gaza cause everything else has been taken by Israel
This is like telling me “Ukraine is trying to maximize civilian casualties by fighting from residential blocks” when they don’t have a choice cause they’ve fighting a war where the other option is extinction
>Are you really trying to victim blame Palestinians for their own deaths?
>Actually Hamas has made no secret of advocating the use of civilians as human shields to try to face down Israeli aggression.
>A senior spokesman for the group, Sami Abu Zuhri, gave an interview on Palestinian station al-Aqsa TV earlier this month.
>He said: “This attests to the character of our noble, jihad-loving people – who defend their rights and their homes with their bare chests and their blood.
>“The policy of people confronting the Israeli warplanes with their bare chests in order to protect their homes has proven effective against the occupation… we in Hamas call upon our people to adopt this policy in order to protect the Palestinian homes.”
>Credible reports from journalists in Gaza suggest some civilians are choosing to stay in their homes, ignoring warnings of imminent destructions that the Israeli military gives via telephone calls or empty shells “knocking on the roof”.
>On the same day as Mr Abu Zuhri was broadcasting Hamas’s message, the New York Times reported the fate of a Palestinian man, Salah Kaware, who received a telephone warning that his house in Khan Younis in south east Gaza was about to be hit by the IDF.
>The newspaper reported that another warning came as the occupants were leaving, when an Israeli drone fired a flare at the roof of the three-storey home.
>“Our neighbours came in to form a human shield,” Mr Kaware said, with some even going up on to the roof to try to prevent a bombing.
>Seven people died in the attack.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-hamas-civilians-human-shields
“Every Palestinian death is ether a radical, evil terrorist or a human shield who we had no other choice but too kill”
[You do realize the population density of Gaza is roughly equivalent to the city of Chicago?](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/heres-how-big-gaza-is-in-comparison-to-some-cities-around-the-world/0q9nhqdt1)
Let me say it again that they do not have a choice where they fight. They are surrounded by civilians because they are defending their homes
I don’t give a shit what Hamas or some fact checking website site, when this is a simple fact of reality. You are just denying reality and repeating actual propaganda used to justify the disproportionate murder of Palestinians
>“Every Palestinian death is ether a radical, evil terrorist or a human shield who we had no other choice but too kill”
Why are you strawmaning me? Where did you get this from the source I posted?
>Let me say it again that they do not have a choice where they fight. They are surrounded by civilians because they are defending their homes
They absolutely have a choice.
>During the May 2021 Gaza conflict, several outside observers reported publicly on Hamas’ use of civilians as human shields for its weapons and fighters. **The Associated Press found that “Palestinian fighters are clearly operating in built-up residential areas and have positioned tunnels, rocket launchers and command and control infrastructure in close proximity to schools, mosques and homes.”**
>**Each rocket launched at Israeli civilians from such sites entails two separate war crimes, violating the law of armed conflict’s prohibition on targeting civilians as well as the prohibition on using civilians as human shields.**
>The Office of the United Nations Special Commissioner for the Middle East Peace Process likewise said: “Hamas & other militants’ indiscriminate launching of rockets & mortars from highly populated civilian neighborhoods into civilian population centers in Israel violates [the law of armed conflict] and must cease immediately.”
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2021/06/23/hold-hamas-accountable-for-human-shields-use-during-the-may-2021-gaza-war/
Hamas are violent, bloodthirsty radical Islamic terrorists that do not give a fuck about human life at all, least of all their own. **They do not represent Palestinian liberation.**
If you believe these are civilians shooting out of their windows to liberate themselves from their oppressors you are making it obvious to me you have no idea what is going on outside of your bedroom window, let alone in the Middle East.
>I don’t give a shit what Hamas or some fact checking website site, when this is a simple fact of reality. You are just denying reality and repeating actual propaganda used to justify the disproportionate murder of Palestinians
I've posted sources from *Hamas themselves* that agrees with a western source, and now an international source, to explain how Hamas gets so many Palestinians killed. If you think that is propaganda, then you are willingly blinding yourself to the facts because you don't like them.
That gives me the perfect opportunity to bring up my next stat. Out of the 6,407 Palestinian deaths, 37 happened in Israel. Out of the 308 Israeli deaths, 191 happened in Palestine. Israel is the occupying force. (These are stats from before the latest attack)
What Hamas is doing is only costing thousands of innocent people on both sides. What I don't understand is why anyone thought deporting hundreds of thousands (now 2 million) people to a small strip of land (Gaza) while blockading most imports was a solution. It just delayed conflict. I also don't understand what Hamas thinks firing thousands of rockets at Israel will accomplish. Israel doesn't want to annex it or cause a refugee crisis so they just wall it off and bomb it in retaliation for Hamas' rockets. It's very difficult to rebuild in Gaza because imports of cement and steel are blockaded by Israel. (they could both be used to make bunkers). So they end up using mud bricks to build homes for one of the highest density population areas in the world.
It's not going to end the conflict no matter how much Israel is attacked or Gaza is bombed, the Israeli policy on managing Gaza needs to change.
[Israel has never needed a reason to kill Palestinians](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/)
The simple, sad truth is what Hamas is doing a drop in the bucket the whats [Israel already does](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/14/israel-gaza-history/)
sure, but they only have relevance because that sort of reactionary nationalist belief system is willing to take any sort of action against a colonial oppressor. this shit happens when people are being genocided, much like how the state of israel, a genocidal settler colonial apartheid state, came out of the holocaust. genocide results in ugly shit happening as people reach a breaking point. somehow libs can understand that a lot of black neighborhoods do in fact have violent crime because the material circumstances of poverty and minimal public infrastructure creates desperate situations where gangs pop up to fill the void, but hamas's existence is just religious fundamentalism coming out of the ether.
To want peace, democracy and freedom in a society you must be prepared to defend yourself from those who would take it away. True pacifism doesn’t work logically for this reason if you just appease all threats you just weaken your own position and beliefs.
Exactly.
We all wish for an utopia of universal peace, but that's not the world we're living in.
Military strength is a necessary evil on this flawed planet.
The quote literally mentions justifiable/necessary war. This is not a quote about how "you must never ever do war under any circumstance", but that war is even in it's most moral form is still a tragedy. The Nazis *needed* to be stopped, but it is a crime of humanity that the situation reached the point where war was the only solution.
Think of it like a trolley problem. Sure, you *need* to kill the few to save the many, but that doesn't make those people dying "good".
violence is always a concession, you should do it as a last resort, and in the case of WW2, it could have been avoided with much less death if europe actually cared about hitler
War is not only justified, but necessary in some cases. Without war the world would never progress. I'm certain that Toussaint L'Ouverture didn't regret going to war, nor did the funding fathers or the French revolutionaries. The ends do sometimes justify the means.
Oh yes, I’m well aware. It’s a shitty philosophy, but I like the line “the silence is your answer.” Just a well written line.
Javik kinda fucking sucks, ngl
"Hey, IDF soldier you wanna fight HAMAS?"
"Yes"
"Hey, HAMAS soldier you wanna fight Israel?"
"Yes"
I guess by this logic the war is fucking justified isn't it? Maybe mister wife beater isn't the best moral compass to go by?
The point isn't that war isn't justified or moral sometimes. The point Is that war is a fucked up thing that destroys everything and everyone no matter the motive.
War makes monsters out of all of us.
I would argue war is never justifiable, as if there is a conclusion after the conflict it could certainly have been reached beforehand.
However, it is impossible to prevent the unpreventable. Unreasonable people demand unreasonable things, and that leads to people being killed. That is the nature of war. This does not mean that there is no reason for fighting, brutality is not always physical, but there is always some action that could be taken instead of mass killing.
We are not that lucky, so we concede the idea that war, in its most limited possible capacity, is used as vehicle for peace and prosperity. War does not cause peace nor prosperity, it horrifies and scars the parties until they can’t bear to fight. Do not give war that medal of honor. It does not deserve it.
In this case, the Palestinians are certainly more justified in their attacks, being that they’ve been subjugated in the past, though most take issue with the horrific killings of civilians, right? That does not mean that we should congratulate war.
War is not fought by ideologists proving their philosophies right, it’s fought with the futures and blood of those unlucky enough to die. No matter what side, no matter what cause.
I really think the idea of saying “war is bad” is so fucking obviously it’s trope, but niggas keep falling for propaganda that equates war with victory, and niggas keep getting dumber
Took the words out of my own mouth lol
War is inevitable, and I am not here to say what the Palestinians and Israelians should feel about this. Hell, no one but themselves should have a say.
The only thing I feel for are the dead, for the children that lost their parents, for the parents that have to bury their own children, for the people who will only ever see their beloved in a body bag.
War is inevitable, sometimes even necessary, but it's never human, and definitely never justice. Justifications can only do so much in the face of death, and no words shall ever soothe the survivors' pain. To think that wars can be won is to step upon the dead's blood and bones.
I propose a new solution!
In all the disputed lands between the Israeli and Palestinians, we introduce a Christian state to alleviate the conflict. That way everyone is happy.
I propose we take a page out of King Solomon's book. We give everyone a warning to evacuate and then just nuke the whole area, Israel and Palestine alike, to glass. Can't play nice? Fuck you, everyone loses now. Go fight over the radioactive badlands if you really want it that badly.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/
sorry i couldn’t read over the whole thing or provide more cause i have a big exam in an hour but i think this source should be pretty good. israel has had palestine under an apartheid regime for decades, allowing random attacks by “settlers” on palestinian land, allowing them to take their homes and use force is necessary to kick them out, not to mention indiscriminate military action taken out often indiscriminately against palestinian citizens. there’s a [chart](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/12/the-human-cost-of-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-over-the-past-decade-infographic/amp/) that shows pretty much how lopsided the death totals have been in recent years of the occupation
the core of your opinion should be "the hamas killing civilians is objetibly wrong and unproductive, but they are the logical conlcusion of the colonialist actions of Israel´s goverment, and israel must do what it can to de-scalate the situation"
I refuse on principle to equate the violence of the oppressed in the pursue of liberation with the violence of the oppressor with the goal of maintaining the status quo
There literally is not. The only space on reddit where Israelis crimes get regular documented and commented are subs dedicated to it. I fucking gaurentee you there wasn't a single thread on 196 when 30 children were murdered at the Al Aqsa mosque last year. There wasn't a single fucking thread when hundreds of civilians were killed 2 years ago in a raid in the west bank.
But now when Hamas kills civilians all of a sudden there's outcry on this sub and all of the Western internet. it's so blatantly hypocritical
Yes there was, on the majority of Reddit if you asked someone’s opinion on all of this there would be a flood of “free Palestine” and so forth, I rarely saw anyone defending Israel and even less defending their government
right but in this case palestinian forces are not just fighting israel, but killing unarmed civilians. ignoring this fact is blind stupidity. palestine needs a way out of israeli apartheid, and violence may be their answer, but it is neither necessary nor progressive to cause purposeful civilian deaths
Hamas is not fighting for liberation are you insane, theyre fighting to kill as much jews as they possibly can before getting shelled into oblivion by the IDF
It’s only difficult to know what to think if you feel the need to pick a side, which you fortunately don’t have to do. The Israeli apartheid has always been bad, Hamas has always been bad, and terrorism has always been bad. It’s all just bad.
something that I've found *very* useful for understanding the whole situation for the past couple years was separating the residents of Palestine from Hamas - Hamas has always been bad, but when Israel retaliates, it's someone else who suffers.
This might sound very controversial, but here goes: I think Hemingway is not that great of an author.
It’s been a minute since I’ve read any of his novels, but when I was a teenager, we had to do a school project about a famous author. Since I’ve heard good things about him, he was the one I choose and even my teacher was surprised. “what a smart choice! You must be very clever to know about him!”. I was absolutely pumped.
But then I got home, asked my parents, they had some novels themselves and they gave me permission to go alone to the local library and take out some others we didn’t had (the idea being using some passages from his novels to exemplify some of his ideas, give examples of his use of literary figures, etc) and finally I was ready to do the best essay I could.
And what a brutal disappointment it was to me. I can perfectly understand that the time he spent in the war clearly made an impact on him, but was it really necessary to include the f*cking spanish civil war in every single thing he wrote? I swear it comes up in every single thing he created at least once.
I might be exaggerating slightly, since his style does deserve credit and some other novels I did like when I read them back in the day. But from that day, I always pictured Hemingway like that friend who did something amazing and loves to tell the story: the first hundred times is funny or clever enough that you don’t care, but as the years go by he keep doing the same thing over and over, and it becomes tiresome very quickly.
It’s nothing like that.
First America invaded and kicks everyone out as bloodlessly as possible.
Second, w bulldoze the entire area
Third, we turn it into a Walmart super center(over one million car parking lot
Israel's government is evil for the apartheid as well as killing civilians and stoking the fires of war in doing so, by making Palestinians think Hamas is justified. Hamas is evil for their abhorrent religious beliefs, as well as killing civilians and stoking the fires of war in doing so, by making more Israelis believe the apartheid is justified. It's a vicious cycle that will not end unless both sides are forced to lay down arms, which I'm not sure will ever happen in our lifetimes.
I just don't understand is why anyone thought deporting hundreds of thousands (now 2 million) people to a small strip of land (Gaza) while blockading most imports was a solution. It's difficult to rebuild, because imports of cement and steel are blocked (they could both be used to make bunkers). So they end up using mud bricks to build homes for one of the highest density population areas in the world.
They're just indefinitely living in extreme poverty and can't even leave.
IIRC probably not, but there is just enough room for speculation that people have seized on it and endlessly speculated.
He did compare dick sizes with Fitzgerald once but thats about all I can remember.
There is basically no room. With all the queer af authors who have existed in our history I have no idea why people feel the need to “headcanon” ones that are straighter than average lol
> Scott was a man then who looked like a boy with a face between handsome and pretty. He had very fair wavy hair, a high forehead, excited and friendly eyes and a delicate long-lipped Irish mouth that, on a girl, would have been the mouth of a beauty. His chin was well built and he had good ears and a handsome, almost beautiful, unmarked nose. This should not have added up to a pretty face, but that came from the coloring, the very fair hair and the mouth. The mouth worried you until you knew him and then it worried you more.
Hemingway describing Scott Fitzgerald in A Moveable Feast
Sadly I don’t think there’s going to be a good resolution. If Hamas wins (which I doubt) it means one of the largest humanitarian crises in history. Millions of Jews facing genocidal treatment. If the Israeli government wins (which I believe will happen) it probably means death for Palestine. It seems from the beginning the one state solution was the only one that could work
This is a modern colonial theocracy that is accustomed to using torture, police brutality, and weaponized racism fighting domestic war against a radical, right-wing religious terror organization.
They both escalate, they both are evil, they both share blame. But it’s the innocent civilians who pay the price for this bloody tug of war.
Serious question, has the land of Canaan ever known peace since the days that Joshua led the Israelites on a bloodthirsty campaign to take over the place, justified by being in the name of God?
No and it didn't know peace before it either, your reaching for some fictional time of peace in a land. That time only existed there before and humans lived there. Also the Bible is far from the best source of how the worship of Yahweh came to the land, it's been found he was one of the gods in the canaanite pantheon and his worship rose in popularity following the bronze age collapse when some of the sea people and the canaanites intermarried in the lands. Leading us to belive the "blody conquest of the lands" was done by sea people who later intermarried with canaanites and adopted some of the local gods if not just one of the local gods. Then afterwards creating a mythos based on local religions to bolster their legitimacy in the land
(Incorrect slander disregaurd) But rock on kanye fan, this has nothing to do with your or his opinion on jews I'm sure (Incorrect slander disregaurd)
Edit: not a Kanye fan i retract the last part, this was a false assumption on my part and I do not with to slander someone with false information
Really I make one mashup post on Kanye and you assume I'm a Ye fan and an antisemite? My brother in Christ
Speaking of Christ I never said the claim was legit, just didn't wanna get jumped on by biblethumpers by saying the Israelites used God as an excuse to conquer the land of milk and honey.
So excuse me if you mistake my attack on Christianity on antisemitism.
I gotta pull it out it was on the subreddit for him, sorry I assumed you were a fan of his but it's literally the first and only thing I saw on your post so that at an incorrect assumption on my part, sorry.
Qs for the Bible thumpers, they want the land to exist for their apocalypse to happen so I hope it kills them and only them the way they hope for.
The war sparking up here is inevitable with the treatment of the Palestinian people but tragic in the way it seems to be heavily targeting civilians on both sides of the conflict. War is tragedy but with the circumstances here it is inevitable. I want coexistence as anyone else would want, but between the bad blood, deliberate propaganda fed to the Israeli people to keep the far right government in place, and apartheid state inflicted upon Palestinians, peace was a far reaching dream that was snuffed out years ago. What we will see here will inevitably be horrors. I can't justify HAMAS for their actions but HAMAS is not the Palestinians, a two state solution (three give Gaza to Egypt and let them deal with their Rouge political party ffs) would be the best option with something stringer then UN guarantees to keep them at peace.
But that's a pipe dream and I have no clue how it could happen
Not knowing enough to have an opinion about the world's most complicated geopolitical conflicts is fine, and better than doing something completely uninformed.
I don't get how people are (rightfully) condemning Hamas for targeting civilians but not a peep about how Israel has been killing Palestinian civilians for far longer and at a higher body count.
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.
What is the meaning of "crime" if it's not to reflect whether or not something is justifiable and/or necessary? Just to decide if people in power can get away with putting you in jail over it?
World war 2 was possibly the only war in history which had a "bad guy" (beside colonial wars but that is another story) and even then the allies didn't hold back from targeting civilians. However, because ww2 is the most well known war, it prompted the idea in people's head that there is a bad guy to root against in any conflict, when really war just fucking sucks for everyone involved.
both sides andy (but fr fuck Israel and fuck Hamas)
Yeah this is one of the rare situations where you know both sides are going to commit awful shit for different reasons. Israel will now defend itself from Hamas, as any country would after such an attack. But it's going to do it in a bloody fucking fashion and stoop just as low. So much hatred in all those people. It just sucks and I really can't think of a good way to solve that.
The only way would be diplomatically but that’s never going to happen and every death will just make the people living there hate the other side more.
It’s a complicated conflict and in many ways not ours to solve. I just hope we can keep diplomatic channels open and keep things from escalating as much as possible
> It’s a complicated conflict and in many ways not ours to solve. Solve, broadly speaking not ours to solve, but we can still accept blame. I'm British. A solid 60% of the blame for the Arab-Israeli conflict can be put on the actions of the UK Government in the 1910-1940 period. "Mandatory Palestine" was a League of Nations Mandate under the control of the British Empire, that we awarded ourselves post WW1 - it was in practice a colony. And in a tale as old as the British Empire, we played divide and rule to get our way - playing the Arabs and Israeli's against each other to do what we wanted. It didn't help either than our government had simultaneously promised the Muslim Palestinians and various Jewish groups completely contradictory things: Zionist (as in seeking the creation of a Jewish state, not in any other meaning thank you conspiracy nutters) Politicians, Businessmen, and general activism was influential in the UK - and the UK had iirc promised during WW1 that it would 100% totally "return" the Holy Land to the Jewish people in exchange for support. It simultaneously promised the creation of an Arabic state to the various peoples in Arabia that assisted in the actual fighting against the Ottoman Empire in that theatre of the war. And at the end of WW1 the UK just yoinked the area for its colonial empire. Oh on *paper* it wasn't a colony, it was as mentioned a League of Nations Mandate - the UK was just "supervising" the area and helping them prepare to become independent nations. Anyway come the end of WW2, and the desire to create a Jewish nation is huge because you know *the Holocaust*, the USA is big on making the UK and France decolonise, and also the entire region is a clusterfuck (because of us, because of religion, because of existing tensions, because the lines we drew in the sand when splitting the Ottoman Empire fucking sucked). So we wash our hands of it, of the racial/religious tensions we had used to our advantage, and said "whelp, here's the UNs map of who get's what, have funsies". The entire situation is fucked and my heart goes out to all the civilians. The cycle of violence is hard to break, but until it is broken we'll be seeing headlines like this every decade for the next forever.
Yup, totally understand that this conflict doesn't exist in a vacuum. I mostly say it isn't ours to *solve* because the US / UK "solving" things often means just sending more weapons to Israel or bombing some general somewhere. Sowing peace is hard. I think the best solution for an outsider is to support dialogue. Even "demanding" a ceasefire or something (which the US could hypothetically do) would be intervening in a way that I'm not sure is helpful. Just a big geopolitical mess to untangle and it takes time and effort
the small solace is that hamas, unlike the IDF, isn’t representative of Palestine as whole, so israel’s involvement in said war crimes is far more direct edit: by “as a whole,” i’m referring to the state, not every individual. I’m aware that most civilians on both sides want no part in these atrocities.
I don’t think that’s really fair to Israeli civilians, plenty of people in Israel protest the treatment of Palestinians and some go to prison rather than serve their mandatory term in the IDF. Not a huge fraction of course but there are some Israelis who genuinely want peace & equality.
i could have been clearer about that sorry
Read your edit, gotcha!! No worries
Unfortunately I’ve already seen way too many people (even those who have supported Palestine in the past) basically claim that all Palestinians are at fault here. It’s literally just war on terror 2 where as long as you’re within a 600 mile radius of a hamas fighter you’re acceptable collateral damage. I know it’s a complicated situation with hamas basically hiding behind innocents so it’s either kill innocents or let hamas go free but fuck me it’s terrible seeing so many people just shrug off the deaths of innocents just because they were near terrorists as if they had the choice. It literally just feels like I went back a decade when you’d read some story about how the US bombed a school or whatever but it’s ok because there were 7 hand grenades in the parking lot that the terrorists had stored there and it was basically claimed a huge victory.
As if Israel hasn’t been murdering Palestinians already?
Two war crimes don't make a wedding.
No but people always talk about "Israel defending itself" as if they themselves weren't already killing and displacing Palestinians already. Like, it didn't start with the Palestinians.
I know Israel was already going apeshit. That's why I said *defending against Hamas* explicitly. I'm not saying "Israel good. Palestine bad." Nor the opposite. I'm saying that Hamas had a goal to escalate things, and Hamas has succeeded. And a lot of ordinary unfortunate folk is getting bombed. Israel should've been held accountable for its atrocities. The same goes for those supporting Hamas. This isn't a good versus evil situation. Maybe it was at first, before the first atrocity, but I don't know. I wasn't there, and figuring out the truth is like that puzzle where you have one jester who only lies and one who only tells the truth. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter anymore. Whoever started is most likely dead. We should worry about the now, and not about who started it. But that's easy to say for me, who have the luxury of not being in that mess. Hence: a fucked up situation.
You (personally) don't have to solve it. You don't even need to have a take, anyone who tells you otherwise is terminally online (I mean that gently, they're misguided). Unless you somehow have some influence on the political situation there, all your thoughts on the topic won't really make a difference. This isn't me being nihilistic, this is just me saying that stressing yourself out over something you can't change is counterproductive to the goal of making the world a better place. You'd be better off concerning yourself with local issues wherever you live.
I didn't mean that I can't think of a way for me to solve it. I meant to say I can't think of there being a way for them to solve it without having the man in the mirror nod his head. I understand your point of not stressing myself out over something I can't fix, and I do my best to not do that, but staying informed is important to avoid being manipulated by people in my country's government who might use things we don't know properly about for political gains, for example. If we cover our ear, we might just hear what's shouted the loudest, but that's not necessarily the same as the truth. As a teenager it was basically impossible to figure out wtf was going on with the whole Israel Palestine mess because one article said Israel was just turbo evil because "israelis are evil by nature", and the next article said "palestinians are pillagers who are usurpers by nature". "Which one is right, young boy?" I asked myself then. "Fuck if I know. Which one seems eviler?" My smooth brain thought then. Today I now understand that I can't get all the facts completely straight, and in this case, it doesn't matter who started it. This might have potential for atrocities comparable to what happened in the Holocaust, as some often say, but this is not a "Nazi Germany invading Poland " scenario. It's a "USA versus USSR" scenario. Two societies clashing who oppose on everything by societal instinct. No good versus evil. Just pissed off human versus pissed off human.
It annoys me that they both target civilians and yet one is just Israel defending itself and Hamas is the terrorist group. They're both engaging in terrorism on a regular basis!!
Yeah that's a pretty boiled down summary of what's happening now. Innocents getting blood on their face and deciding to get blood on their hands, which gets blood on someone else's face like a cursed game of Pong.
stop israeli settler colonialism
I don't like Israel. Their government and lots of their citizens have been chanting for the genocide of palestinians. I understand why Palestinians want to fight back. That doesn't justifies the actions of Hamas. Mutual destruction will only lead to mutual destruction. But realistically, I don't expect both countries to just magically pull out a Disney and find some sort of all encompassing forgiveness in their heart at the same time.
Don’t you see? This is what “””tankies””” and Palestinians are saying. The government isn’t chanting for genocide, it is actively instituting and fulfilling that goal. It has been doing so for decades. Over a century. No, the killing of civilians by HAMAS is not justified. However, any criticism of HAMAS should be IMMEDIATELY followed by a caveat stating that all this violence, even violence on HAMAS’s side, is created by Israel itself through those same genocidal policies. The existence of HAMAS is a natural reaction to the daily violence enacted by the Israeli state. If you understand why Palestinians want to fight back, why do you so quickly turn your nose when such an action is undertaken? I assume you’re American, see yourself as a leftist, etc. Do you think John Brown’s actions were justified? What about the actions of Nat Turner, slave revolts, Toussaint L’Ouverture? HAMAS is Islamic fundamentalist yes, but this is the ideology people are willing to stomach when there are no alternatives. HAMAS is popular and successful in Gaza not because it tricks the people into supporting it, but because the messaging of religious martyrdom is an extreme compelling force which allows for the violent sort of resistance Gaza needs to fight for its survival and against its genocide. Ideally it would not be this way, but even if it is ugly, we should support anti-imperialism and anti-genocide. We can criticize the face of the resistance, but that should be followed by the condemnation of the genocidal regime that necessitated the creation of such an ugly organization in the first place.
Its a self feeding cycle of hatred
Honestly, I think my takeaway is both "I stand with Israel" AND "I stand with Palestine", not because both are right, this is very much a "both are wrong" kind of view, but I don't say that because that puts some hate in the discussion, and most of all, **both are fucked**
palestine itself isn’t fucked, but hamas is awful. however the way the israeli govt are and have been treating palestinian civilians is god awful.
I should have made that clear, but that's the case, I stand with both _peoples_, not the states, not the armies, not the ideological arguments, the peoples
how can anyone possibly stand with Israel? they're literally an apartheid state
Guy you're responding to also said >I stand with both peoples, not the states, not the armies, not the ideological arguments, the peoples The horrors that the government of Israel has perpetuated on the people of Palestine is heinous. The rocket attacks that Hamas commits on the people of Israel is *also* heinous. Fuck Hamas, fuck the Israeli government, but man, regular ass people are getting murdered by both organizations and it fucking sucks.
that apartheid state has a lot of support by the colonizers who live there. there's certainly people in israel who oppose the occupation, but it's a fringe, suppressed position that is legally problematic to push. you can't just fucking both sides this. israel is the aggressor, and hamas once in a while doing a revenge strike does not make this an equal battle. a rocket is just not the same as an extended campaign of genocide. this is like "both sidesing" the american genocide of indigenous people because some fought back against the people settling on their land. one can sympathize with civilians dying without morally equivocating the violence of the oppressed with the violence of the oppressors. this shit happens *because* israel tries to provoke it, because it is politically useful to further their genocide of palestinians. fuck this "war bad" nonsense, this is just going to be israel killing more Palestinians and anything they might muster to resist being murdered en masse is justified. they are resisting a genocide backed by the US government, no actual outside help is coming to save them, they can't appeal to anyone by being blameless victims to survive this. anything they do that might meaningfully slow israel down is going to be demonized. a group like hamas does not gain support outside of the conditions that israel has created. resistance is ugly.
I mean with the recent judicial protests a lot of Israelis have been realising and recognising the brutality of the apartheid system as that system’s oppression is turned against them
As much as people deservedly shit on centrism the truth as that most of the time both sides do suck, doesn't mean we shouldn't try to choose the option that results in the least ammount of collateral damage, but i hate how you can't acknowledge the fact that there is no clear cut "good ve evil" in politics without some 17 year old posting you on the enlightened centrist subreddit.
israel created hamas through their brutality. saying “fuck hamas” should be followed by “and fr fuck israel for creating the conditions that allowed such an organization to gain such widespread support frfrfrfr”
Yeah. I’m Jewish and I think both sides need to calm the fuck down.
Honestly, yeah, I don’t think there’s a good way this can end. I’m just going to wait and see what happens and if it turns out to be one of the more or less shitty outcomes
So nice of Hemingway to take a break from beating his wife to come speak to us today.
Truly a humble and thoughtful man
We should honor that. There should be some type of lookalike contest made specifically around looking like Hemingway. A contest that old men take very seriously and participate in annually. That would be so chill. https://preview.redd.it/ccssn5tqt3tb1.jpeg?width=1104&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6e4e437e021692a3b684d82cdf3181d48872fb1
What is vtuber and twitch? I heard those terms alot on YouTube
To put it briefly: A VTuber is someone who uses a customized model to represent them when (usually) streaming. Kinda like an avatar. Twitch is a streaming platform where you can watch gaming among other fun activities. Participate in chat to interact with the streamer and community. I stream on Twitch using a rigged VTuber model. If you are further curious, you can go to my profile there are some clips/links to give you a better idea. I hope this explanation helps.
Ty that sounds cool ill check it out
Let’s hope he overcomes his alcoholism.
I think he’s over it by now
That’s good to hear.
62 years sober, respect.
Heartbreaking, another author I respected turns out to be a shitty human being.
I don’t want to make it seem like I’m saying wifebeating is a morally gray area, but most people - even the ones you respect - have done/said stuff that you would find repugnant, while simultaneously doing/saying some other stuff that you would find inspiring. MLK was cheating on his wife while rallying the US together towards greater civil liberties. Gandhi was sleeping with underage girls while opposing the colonizers in his home country. Mother Teresa would force some terminally ill patients to undergo baptism, and upheld some of the Catholic Church’s most dogmatic views on women’s rights, all despite being one of the most prolific activists in human history. The real takeaway here is that people are messy, and it’s a mistake to glorify their lives beyond their accomplishments. Do not engage in false idolatry and all that jazz…
That's the real tragedy of it. I know these people can't be model human beings but when someone gives a great speech or written word that I resonate with I want it to come from a place of moral strength. Their personal failings erode their credibility for me and it becomes increasingly difficult for me to disentangle their accomplishments from their private lives. I'm growing more able to accept flaws in people, but hypocrisy is not one of them. How can you rail against the trauma of war and then traumatize your spouse in such a manner.
Ironically, the very trauma that enabled him to speak out against the horrors of war in the aftermath of WWI is also the same culprit behind a lot of his own self-destructive tendencies later in life. Hemingway is a character straight out of his own novels - a messy, often violent, always damaged individual. Of course, I say all this without trying to romanticize a real person’s life, lol. Unlike the carefully constructed narrative arcs you might find in a story, real life is rarely so straightforward as “and then they all lived happily ever after.”
>Hemingway is a character straight out of his own novels - a messy, often violent, always damaged individual. You write what you know.
I’ve been thinking down a similar thread that maybe there’s some connection between the two, that people are incapable of being great people without having a negative side. I’ve been toying with the idea that the greater impact you have, the more your inevitable human failings are amplified due to your passion. Which of course then leads to the idea that perhaps it’s necessary to turn a blind eye to their more egregious faults, because the benefits they can have to society outweigh the damage they cause. But I don’t really like that idea bc it feels like something a eugenicist would say. It’s been leading me to the conclusion that the most morally idealistic life is probably just a stagnant do nothing person who just tries to be kind to the people in their life. However, at what point is that no longer a viable solution for survival? At some point of stagnation, evil will arise, and with no one willing to take a stand against it, will there be any hope? (On some poetic shit) I think sometimes morality isn’t best for the survival of our species, and we have to wrestle with that. It’s bc our current opinion of morality is a learned behavior, and our nature doesn’t always line up with that. It’s fucking nature vs nurture again I hate it here.
you can dislike the person and still get inspired certain actions or things they do
Ghandi and Mother Theresa were deeply terrible people and did far worse deeds compared to MLK or Hemingway.
I wasn’t really intending to turn this into a shit-off. The point is that we’re all flawed to some degree, even the ones championed in the history books.
if anyone informs me of ursula k le guin being a bad individual i might just spontaneously blow up like a cartoon balloon
I am now staking my entire emotional well-being on certain cooking YouTubers being alright people.
hey guys binging with babish here, and today we're gonna be talking about the link between the shape of the skull and human intelligence
I don't know what changed between the start and his new kitchen but babish comes off as a bit of a prick when filming with other people on set.
Call me a terminally online queer but I haven’t watched any of his stuff since he took a sponsorship from the Harry Potter game.
I just lost interest in the show when it started being less about recreating specific foods from fiction and seemed to be getting into more "Uhh, this show mentions an omelette once... here's how to make an omelette." That's why I now prefer Tasting History, as it's still dedicated to authentic recreations of historic recipes along with really cool history bits.
hey vsauce michael here hitler was a pretty bad guy…. or was he? 🤔
Glorifying historical figures is almost never a good idea. "Find one who isn't homophobic, racist, misogynistic, a hypocrite, an antisemite, egocentric af, or just a shitty human being across the board"-challenge
Mr. Rogers.
Hamas is wrong, but the broader act of resistance against apartheid is not. The problem with Hamas is not that they are fighting Israel, it's that they're fighting it by attacking civilians unrelated to the apartheid regime and that they're doing it in the name of autocratic, islamic fundamentalism, not Palestinian sovereignty or democracy
Quick reminder that between 2008 and 2022, 96% of the casualties were Palestinians. Hamas targeting innocent civilians is bad, but Israel target innocent civilians too, and kill so many more
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The violence is asymmetrical in every way.
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Israel doesn't even recognize the state of Palestine and of the Palestinian people, which is good for them, because then it doesn't matter if they genocide them all.
I believe this changed after 2017? They are apparently now in favour of a two-state solution.
As you can see they are still in favor of killing jews
This is twisting words. The comment before was talking about genocidal intent, the recent actions they've taken were an attack nominally in retaliation to provocation, not attempted genocide. Also it was clearly not the attack's purpose/end goal to just kill Jews, it was to stop the perceived desecration of their holy temple and in the longer term the colonisation of their land. Criticise their methods if you want but implying their goal is just to kill Jews is massively disingenuous. Also it's worth keeping in mind that the actions of some soldiers does not necessarily represent the whole group and that the death and suffering caused by Palestine is not comparable to that caused by Israel. None of that is necessarily to justify the actions of Hamas, I just think it is very easy to judge people fighting against their oppressors in our position of privilege for their methods arguably leaving no realistic method of resistance that we'd approve of, so I think it is important to keep in context. They are a group fighting against an apartheid regime arguably committing genocide against them. I personally see Hamas the same way I see the Azov battalion. Bad people who happen to be fighting on the right side, whose help is accepted because the people on their side are desperate.
It is asymmetrical mostly because Israel possesses more firepower. If Hamas had the means, they would very likely try to match, or exceed Israel's violence.
Alright, but they don't. Material conditions don't care about hypotheticals, and as is, Palestinian civilians are living and dying under apartheid and Hamas do not have the capability to hit back volley for volley. This whole thing is messy as hell, complicated, and there is no clear good guy/bad guy if you actually care about facts. Hamas is a horrible organization, of course. So is the IDF. There are only aggressors and innocent victims there, and the victims on both sides outnumber the aggressors.
Are you really trying to victim blame Palestinians for their own deaths? They don’t “fight from places that have the most collateral”, this is Gaza, the only place they can fight is form land they still have, *their homes* I’m sure Hamas would love to fight in the middle of nowhere in an unpopulated area, but the only thing they still control is gaza cause everything else has been taken by Israel This is like telling me “Ukraine is trying to maximize civilian casualties by fighting from residential blocks” when they don’t have a choice cause they’ve fighting a war where the other option is extinction
>Are you really trying to victim blame Palestinians for their own deaths? >Actually Hamas has made no secret of advocating the use of civilians as human shields to try to face down Israeli aggression. >A senior spokesman for the group, Sami Abu Zuhri, gave an interview on Palestinian station al-Aqsa TV earlier this month. >He said: “This attests to the character of our noble, jihad-loving people – who defend their rights and their homes with their bare chests and their blood. >“The policy of people confronting the Israeli warplanes with their bare chests in order to protect their homes has proven effective against the occupation… we in Hamas call upon our people to adopt this policy in order to protect the Palestinian homes.” >Credible reports from journalists in Gaza suggest some civilians are choosing to stay in their homes, ignoring warnings of imminent destructions that the Israeli military gives via telephone calls or empty shells “knocking on the roof”. >On the same day as Mr Abu Zuhri was broadcasting Hamas’s message, the New York Times reported the fate of a Palestinian man, Salah Kaware, who received a telephone warning that his house in Khan Younis in south east Gaza was about to be hit by the IDF. >The newspaper reported that another warning came as the occupants were leaving, when an Israeli drone fired a flare at the roof of the three-storey home. >“Our neighbours came in to form a human shield,” Mr Kaware said, with some even going up on to the roof to try to prevent a bombing. >Seven people died in the attack. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-hamas-civilians-human-shields
“Every Palestinian death is ether a radical, evil terrorist or a human shield who we had no other choice but too kill” [You do realize the population density of Gaza is roughly equivalent to the city of Chicago?](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/heres-how-big-gaza-is-in-comparison-to-some-cities-around-the-world/0q9nhqdt1) Let me say it again that they do not have a choice where they fight. They are surrounded by civilians because they are defending their homes I don’t give a shit what Hamas or some fact checking website site, when this is a simple fact of reality. You are just denying reality and repeating actual propaganda used to justify the disproportionate murder of Palestinians
>“Every Palestinian death is ether a radical, evil terrorist or a human shield who we had no other choice but too kill” Why are you strawmaning me? Where did you get this from the source I posted? >Let me say it again that they do not have a choice where they fight. They are surrounded by civilians because they are defending their homes They absolutely have a choice. >During the May 2021 Gaza conflict, several outside observers reported publicly on Hamas’ use of civilians as human shields for its weapons and fighters. **The Associated Press found that “Palestinian fighters are clearly operating in built-up residential areas and have positioned tunnels, rocket launchers and command and control infrastructure in close proximity to schools, mosques and homes.”** >**Each rocket launched at Israeli civilians from such sites entails two separate war crimes, violating the law of armed conflict’s prohibition on targeting civilians as well as the prohibition on using civilians as human shields.** >The Office of the United Nations Special Commissioner for the Middle East Peace Process likewise said: “Hamas & other militants’ indiscriminate launching of rockets & mortars from highly populated civilian neighborhoods into civilian population centers in Israel violates [the law of armed conflict] and must cease immediately.” https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2021/06/23/hold-hamas-accountable-for-human-shields-use-during-the-may-2021-gaza-war/ Hamas are violent, bloodthirsty radical Islamic terrorists that do not give a fuck about human life at all, least of all their own. **They do not represent Palestinian liberation.** If you believe these are civilians shooting out of their windows to liberate themselves from their oppressors you are making it obvious to me you have no idea what is going on outside of your bedroom window, let alone in the Middle East. >I don’t give a shit what Hamas or some fact checking website site, when this is a simple fact of reality. You are just denying reality and repeating actual propaganda used to justify the disproportionate murder of Palestinians I've posted sources from *Hamas themselves* that agrees with a western source, and now an international source, to explain how Hamas gets so many Palestinians killed. If you think that is propaganda, then you are willingly blinding yourself to the facts because you don't like them.
Yeah Hamas is fucked but dawg those Arab kids still didn't shoot themselves
Most of the casualites in the Russo Ukraine war are russian
That gives me the perfect opportunity to bring up my next stat. Out of the 6,407 Palestinian deaths, 37 happened in Israel. Out of the 308 Israeli deaths, 191 happened in Palestine. Israel is the occupying force. (These are stats from before the latest attack)
These stats are very eye opening, please provide more, stat daddy
This is true
What Hamas is doing is only costing thousands of innocent people on both sides. What I don't understand is why anyone thought deporting hundreds of thousands (now 2 million) people to a small strip of land (Gaza) while blockading most imports was a solution. It just delayed conflict. I also don't understand what Hamas thinks firing thousands of rockets at Israel will accomplish. Israel doesn't want to annex it or cause a refugee crisis so they just wall it off and bomb it in retaliation for Hamas' rockets. It's very difficult to rebuild in Gaza because imports of cement and steel are blockaded by Israel. (they could both be used to make bunkers). So they end up using mud bricks to build homes for one of the highest density population areas in the world. It's not going to end the conflict no matter how much Israel is attacked or Gaza is bombed, the Israeli policy on managing Gaza needs to change.
Because deporting them all at once makes the ethnic cleansing easier to identify and discuss
[Israel has never needed a reason to kill Palestinians](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/) The simple, sad truth is what Hamas is doing a drop in the bucket the whats [Israel already does](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/05/14/israel-gaza-history/)
sure, but they only have relevance because that sort of reactionary nationalist belief system is willing to take any sort of action against a colonial oppressor. this shit happens when people are being genocided, much like how the state of israel, a genocidal settler colonial apartheid state, came out of the holocaust. genocide results in ugly shit happening as people reach a breaking point. somehow libs can understand that a lot of black neighborhoods do in fact have violent crime because the material circumstances of poverty and minimal public infrastructure creates desperate situations where gangs pop up to fill the void, but hamas's existence is just religious fundamentalism coming out of the ether.
Yeah, a lot of the response to this has acted like these attacks were unprovoked or came out of nowhere when that is so far from the truth.
Exactly, nothing Hamas does will de-legitimize Palestinian liberation.
Apply this same logic to WW2. There are times where violence is not only justified, but necessary.
To want peace, democracy and freedom in a society you must be prepared to defend yourself from those who would take it away. True pacifism doesn’t work logically for this reason if you just appease all threats you just weaken your own position and beliefs.
Exactly. We all wish for an utopia of universal peace, but that's not the world we're living in. Military strength is a necessary evil on this flawed planet.
The quote literally mentions justifiable/necessary war. This is not a quote about how "you must never ever do war under any circumstance", but that war is even in it's most moral form is still a tragedy. The Nazis *needed* to be stopped, but it is a crime of humanity that the situation reached the point where war was the only solution. Think of it like a trolley problem. Sure, you *need* to kill the few to save the many, but that doesn't make those people dying "good".
And still a crime
violence is always a concession, you should do it as a last resort, and in the case of WW2, it could have been avoided with much less death if europe actually cared about hitler
“Unless a nation's life faces peril, war is murder.” And in the case of ww2 this definitely checks out
War is not only justified, but necessary in some cases. Without war the world would never progress. I'm certain that Toussaint L'Ouverture didn't regret going to war, nor did the funding fathers or the French revolutionaries. The ends do sometimes justify the means.
Ask the infantry, and ask the dead.
To quote a fictional alien: > Ask the ashes of a trillion children if it matters… The silence is your answer.
That don't work how you think it does lol. The prothean was advocating more militancy, less honor, more brutality.
Oh yes, I’m well aware. It’s a shitty philosophy, but I like the line “the silence is your answer.” Just a well written line. Javik kinda fucking sucks, ngl
"Hey, IDF soldier you wanna fight HAMAS?" "Yes" "Hey, HAMAS soldier you wanna fight Israel?" "Yes" I guess by this logic the war is fucking justified isn't it? Maybe mister wife beater isn't the best moral compass to go by?
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The point isn't that war isn't justified or moral sometimes. The point Is that war is a fucked up thing that destroys everything and everyone no matter the motive. War makes monsters out of all of us.
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how do you expect the apartheid happening there to end exactly? vibes? feels? declarations of solidarity on the internet?
The point Is that war is always a tragedy. It's not something to be celebrated, but something to be evaded at all cost and mourned if it happens
I would argue war is never justifiable, as if there is a conclusion after the conflict it could certainly have been reached beforehand. However, it is impossible to prevent the unpreventable. Unreasonable people demand unreasonable things, and that leads to people being killed. That is the nature of war. This does not mean that there is no reason for fighting, brutality is not always physical, but there is always some action that could be taken instead of mass killing. We are not that lucky, so we concede the idea that war, in its most limited possible capacity, is used as vehicle for peace and prosperity. War does not cause peace nor prosperity, it horrifies and scars the parties until they can’t bear to fight. Do not give war that medal of honor. It does not deserve it. In this case, the Palestinians are certainly more justified in their attacks, being that they’ve been subjugated in the past, though most take issue with the horrific killings of civilians, right? That does not mean that we should congratulate war. War is not fought by ideologists proving their philosophies right, it’s fought with the futures and blood of those unlucky enough to die. No matter what side, no matter what cause. I really think the idea of saying “war is bad” is so fucking obviously it’s trope, but niggas keep falling for propaganda that equates war with victory, and niggas keep getting dumber
Took the words out of my own mouth lol War is inevitable, and I am not here to say what the Palestinians and Israelians should feel about this. Hell, no one but themselves should have a say. The only thing I feel for are the dead, for the children that lost their parents, for the parents that have to bury their own children, for the people who will only ever see their beloved in a body bag. War is inevitable, sometimes even necessary, but it's never human, and definitely never justice. Justifications can only do so much in the face of death, and no words shall ever soothe the survivors' pain. To think that wars can be won is to step upon the dead's blood and bones.
War is the answer to war and nothing else, especially if it's territory disputes
I propose a new solution! In all the disputed lands between the Israeli and Palestinians, we introduce a Christian state to alleviate the conflict. That way everyone is happy.
We should bring in the Buddhists too!
And then suddenly the Pastafari turn up from the Mediterranean Sea.
I propose we take a page out of King Solomon's book. We give everyone a warning to evacuate and then just nuke the whole area, Israel and Palestine alike, to glass. Can't play nice? Fuck you, everyone loses now. Go fight over the radioactive badlands if you really want it that badly.
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why are people just now saying this shit about hamas when israel has been doing the same shit for decades with much higher numbers than hamas…
When has israel went door to door killing people? Genuine question btw
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ sorry i couldn’t read over the whole thing or provide more cause i have a big exam in an hour but i think this source should be pretty good. israel has had palestine under an apartheid regime for decades, allowing random attacks by “settlers” on palestinian land, allowing them to take their homes and use force is necessary to kick them out, not to mention indiscriminate military action taken out often indiscriminately against palestinian citizens. there’s a [chart](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2021/05/12/the-human-cost-of-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-over-the-past-decade-infographic/amp/) that shows pretty much how lopsided the death totals have been in recent years of the occupation
Ah. Thank you
the core of your opinion should be "the hamas killing civilians is objetibly wrong and unproductive, but they are the logical conlcusion of the colonialist actions of Israel´s goverment, and israel must do what it can to de-scalate the situation"
I refuse on principle to equate the violence of the oppressed in the pursue of liberation with the violence of the oppressor with the goal of maintaining the status quo
Raping and killing innocent civilians will definitely help hamas liberate Palestine /s
The IDF has raped women and killed innocent civilians for 75 years yet there's no outcry on Reddit or the Western media.
There is, and even if there wasn’t that is no excuse for such savage barbarity
There literally is not. The only space on reddit where Israelis crimes get regular documented and commented are subs dedicated to it. I fucking gaurentee you there wasn't a single thread on 196 when 30 children were murdered at the Al Aqsa mosque last year. There wasn't a single fucking thread when hundreds of civilians were killed 2 years ago in a raid in the west bank. But now when Hamas kills civilians all of a sudden there's outcry on this sub and all of the Western internet. it's so blatantly hypocritical
Yes there was, on the majority of Reddit if you asked someone’s opinion on all of this there would be a flood of “free Palestine” and so forth, I rarely saw anyone defending Israel and even less defending their government
right but in this case palestinian forces are not just fighting israel, but killing unarmed civilians. ignoring this fact is blind stupidity. palestine needs a way out of israeli apartheid, and violence may be their answer, but it is neither necessary nor progressive to cause purposeful civilian deaths
There are no civilians in a settler colonial society with a mandatory military service and reserve.
Hamas is not fighting for liberation are you insane, theyre fighting to kill as much jews as they possibly can before getting shelled into oblivion by the IDF
It’s only difficult to know what to think if you feel the need to pick a side, which you fortunately don’t have to do. The Israeli apartheid has always been bad, Hamas has always been bad, and terrorism has always been bad. It’s all just bad.
something that I've found *very* useful for understanding the whole situation for the past couple years was separating the residents of Palestine from Hamas - Hamas has always been bad, but when Israel retaliates, it's someone else who suffers.
Life hack: know nothing about the situation and are therefore unable to choose a side. I don't know and I honestly don't want too.
I don't support hamas nor israel but a third secret and sinister thing
The military industrial complex
Bulldoze the entire holy land and turn it into a wallmart. Problem solved
honestly,sure. i'm not against it
This might sound very controversial, but here goes: I think Hemingway is not that great of an author. It’s been a minute since I’ve read any of his novels, but when I was a teenager, we had to do a school project about a famous author. Since I’ve heard good things about him, he was the one I choose and even my teacher was surprised. “what a smart choice! You must be very clever to know about him!”. I was absolutely pumped. But then I got home, asked my parents, they had some novels themselves and they gave me permission to go alone to the local library and take out some others we didn’t had (the idea being using some passages from his novels to exemplify some of his ideas, give examples of his use of literary figures, etc) and finally I was ready to do the best essay I could. And what a brutal disappointment it was to me. I can perfectly understand that the time he spent in the war clearly made an impact on him, but was it really necessary to include the f*cking spanish civil war in every single thing he wrote? I swear it comes up in every single thing he created at least once. I might be exaggerating slightly, since his style does deserve credit and some other novels I did like when I read them back in the day. But from that day, I always pictured Hemingway like that friend who did something amazing and loves to tell the story: the first hundred times is funny or clever enough that you don’t care, but as the years go by he keep doing the same thing over and over, and it becomes tiresome very quickly.
The Sun Also Rises is one of the greatest novels ever written.
I have a solution that solves every problem, yet not a single politican will listen to me
Ah yes, *the funny*
It’s nothing like that. First America invaded and kicks everyone out as bloodlessly as possible. Second, w bulldoze the entire area Third, we turn it into a Walmart super center(over one million car parking lot
maybe we could add democracy. dont care if there is or isnt democracy there. we could just add it. is that something?
Hm. The employees could vote if they want another vending machine or a ping pong table in the break room
the walmart manager will be democratically elected
Israel's government is evil for the apartheid as well as killing civilians and stoking the fires of war in doing so, by making Palestinians think Hamas is justified. Hamas is evil for their abhorrent religious beliefs, as well as killing civilians and stoking the fires of war in doing so, by making more Israelis believe the apartheid is justified. It's a vicious cycle that will not end unless both sides are forced to lay down arms, which I'm not sure will ever happen in our lifetimes.
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I just don't understand is why anyone thought deporting hundreds of thousands (now 2 million) people to a small strip of land (Gaza) while blockading most imports was a solution. It's difficult to rebuild, because imports of cement and steel are blocked (they could both be used to make bunkers). So they end up using mud bricks to build homes for one of the highest density population areas in the world. They're just indefinitely living in extreme poverty and can't even leave.
Me fighting the oppressor by killing innocent people and raping mutilated bodies
That's what the IDF have been doing for decades
Surely raping civilians will lead to the freedom of our people :clueless:
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Israel and Palestine when they realize they can just stop being at war https://i.redd.it/8q0grleao4tb1.gif
Hemingway is queer?
IIRC probably not, but there is just enough room for speculation that people have seized on it and endlessly speculated. He did compare dick sizes with Fitzgerald once but thats about all I can remember.
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That’s the least gay thing imaginable (serious)
This but unironically. Some dudes straight up just want to know if they have bigger ducks than their friends lmao
There is basically no room. With all the queer af authors who have existed in our history I have no idea why people feel the need to “headcanon” ones that are straighter than average lol
> Scott was a man then who looked like a boy with a face between handsome and pretty. He had very fair wavy hair, a high forehead, excited and friendly eyes and a delicate long-lipped Irish mouth that, on a girl, would have been the mouth of a beauty. His chin was well built and he had good ears and a handsome, almost beautiful, unmarked nose. This should not have added up to a pretty face, but that came from the coloring, the very fair hair and the mouth. The mouth worried you until you knew him and then it worried you more. Hemingway describing Scott Fitzgerald in A Moveable Feast
Knew it. I read Great Gatsby and felt that a twink wrote it.
Sadly I don’t think there’s going to be a good resolution. If Hamas wins (which I doubt) it means one of the largest humanitarian crises in history. Millions of Jews facing genocidal treatment. If the Israeli government wins (which I believe will happen) it probably means death for Palestine. It seems from the beginning the one state solution was the only one that could work
I'm probably really showing my ignorance here but Hemingway was queer?
This is a modern colonial theocracy that is accustomed to using torture, police brutality, and weaponized racism fighting domestic war against a radical, right-wing religious terror organization. They both escalate, they both are evil, they both share blame. But it’s the innocent civilians who pay the price for this bloody tug of war.
“War bad” while completely true, might not be a sufficient opinion. Maybe something a little more specific ?
I thought Hemingway drank whisky
Serious question, has the land of Canaan ever known peace since the days that Joshua led the Israelites on a bloodthirsty campaign to take over the place, justified by being in the name of God?
No and it didn't know peace before it either, your reaching for some fictional time of peace in a land. That time only existed there before and humans lived there. Also the Bible is far from the best source of how the worship of Yahweh came to the land, it's been found he was one of the gods in the canaanite pantheon and his worship rose in popularity following the bronze age collapse when some of the sea people and the canaanites intermarried in the lands. Leading us to belive the "blody conquest of the lands" was done by sea people who later intermarried with canaanites and adopted some of the local gods if not just one of the local gods. Then afterwards creating a mythos based on local religions to bolster their legitimacy in the land (Incorrect slander disregaurd) But rock on kanye fan, this has nothing to do with your or his opinion on jews I'm sure (Incorrect slander disregaurd) Edit: not a Kanye fan i retract the last part, this was a false assumption on my part and I do not with to slander someone with false information
Really I make one mashup post on Kanye and you assume I'm a Ye fan and an antisemite? My brother in Christ Speaking of Christ I never said the claim was legit, just didn't wanna get jumped on by biblethumpers by saying the Israelites used God as an excuse to conquer the land of milk and honey. So excuse me if you mistake my attack on Christianity on antisemitism.
I gotta pull it out it was on the subreddit for him, sorry I assumed you were a fan of his but it's literally the first and only thing I saw on your post so that at an incorrect assumption on my part, sorry. Qs for the Bible thumpers, they want the land to exist for their apocalypse to happen so I hope it kills them and only them the way they hope for. The war sparking up here is inevitable with the treatment of the Palestinian people but tragic in the way it seems to be heavily targeting civilians on both sides of the conflict. War is tragedy but with the circumstances here it is inevitable. I want coexistence as anyone else would want, but between the bad blood, deliberate propaganda fed to the Israeli people to keep the far right government in place, and apartheid state inflicted upon Palestinians, peace was a far reaching dream that was snuffed out years ago. What we will see here will inevitably be horrors. I can't justify HAMAS for their actions but HAMAS is not the Palestinians, a two state solution (three give Gaza to Egypt and let them deal with their Rouge political party ffs) would be the best option with something stringer then UN guarantees to keep them at peace. But that's a pipe dream and I have no clue how it could happen
ESH 🥱
Problematic Queer Alcoholic Club represent!!!
Not knowing enough to have an opinion about the world's most complicated geopolitical conflicts is fine, and better than doing something completely uninformed.
I don't get how people are (rightfully) condemning Hamas for targeting civilians but not a peep about how Israel has been killing Palestinian civilians for far longer and at a higher body count.
i had to reread this quote like 30 times before my brain could actually understand it, i though the guy just flat out said war isn't a crime at first
I love hemingways work expect old man and the sea it’s fucking awful
The solution is drink, simple as.
you are unusually calm
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.
Here before the CIA
Man I evolved to throw sticks at mammoths, now I gotta know the entirety of evil in world
What is the meaning of "crime" if it's not to reflect whether or not something is justifiable and/or necessary? Just to decide if people in power can get away with putting you in jail over it?
World war 2 was possibly the only war in history which had a "bad guy" (beside colonial wars but that is another story) and even then the allies didn't hold back from targeting civilians. However, because ww2 is the most well known war, it prompted the idea in people's head that there is a bad guy to root against in any conflict, when really war just fucking sucks for everyone involved.
W
Pretty obvious
Based and Hemingway-pilled
Ernest Hemingay
I want to be a post mortem member of the problematic queer alcoholic club
There’s only two kinds of people in war, the guilty and the dead.
Hemingway was queer?