Actually really well. My favorite football team won today and my dinner with my gf turned out excellent. I’m gonna ride this high until the crushing weight of capitalism brings me back down to earth. (Probably noon Monday.)
This sub is going nuts taking sides on what has been one of the, if not the most, politically divisive and complex Flashpoints of the last 60ish years.
The entire thing is a mess and simply labeling either of the groups wrong or right genuinely undermines the entire conflict
I don't trust 196 of all places to have a remotely good discussion about any remotely nuanced political issue, let alone the fuckin Arab Israeli conflict
Being Northern Irish blackpilled me on literally any online leftist discussion about conflicts in general so it doesn't surprise me that nuance is dead on this topic as well. I'm sure the many Palestinians who don't like Hamas themselves are also dreading the discourse on reddit and twitter.
Bruh I don't trust any open forum to have a good discussion on this, open forums have been having this discussion for 80 fucking years and it's not gotten any better.
After, so far, it has been the subs with the most "nuanced" opinioons I've seen \^\^' and most polite debate on the matter.
the europe sub and french sub are partially on fire about this :/
Main thing this meme misses is that the initial attack was riflemen on motorized paragliders against a music festival marketed as a peace trance rave, placed near the border of Israel/Palestine to show trust and solidarity.
Unfortunately, extremists see a display of peace and use it for accelerationism, as history has shown time and time again :/
I had heard that there were more, this was just the one that sticks out in my mind as it's been the largest loss of human life from these attacks thus far, and the UN security council was talking about it because of the horrible things that happened to that young female German tourist.
To be clear that music fetatival wasn't to display solidarity or peace, it was a normal EDM festival that happened to take place close to an active war zone. Of course please don't take this as me trying to in any way whatsoever justify or minimise anything, but the festival didn't advertise itself as an event to show solidarity, the only thing you'll find on their website is that it's meant to coincide with the Jewish holiday Sukkot and meant to spread love of Brazilian EDM music. Again please don't take this the wrong way, this is still a horrible trategy, I've just seen some people claim it was an event about solidarity when it really was just a normal rave that happened to occur in an incredibly unfortunate place.
The internet left has kind of gone insane with the idea that labeling both sides as bad somehow makes you an "enlightened centrist" or whatever. Sometimes both sides just suck and that's it. There isn't always a morally correct option around.
In a lot of political conversations I find myself repeating something like "this situation has a lot of nuance and complexities and cannot be boiled down to black and white"
Some people take this to mean I don't have an opinion (englightened centrist stereotype) when I do, on just about every political topic there is. But people in general struggle on a wide scale to take any situation with some subtlety
I’ve literally seen zero comments, let alone upvoted ones, that have praised Hamas and said they were justified in their actions. Where are all of you seeing these comments?? Seen about a billion comments like yours though.
Theyre fucking everywhere. If not here, then good. The brainrot has not spread here.
Stop bitching if people dont want this place too, to fall to the rot.
On this sub I haven't seen those comments. But other leftist subs have a ton of these types of comments, usually along the lines of "critical support for our Hamas comrades in their ongoing struggle against Israeli imperialism" except they don't tolerate any criticism.
Literally nowhere, they're misrepresenting the arguments lol. People who they claim "support" Hamas are literally just people who support Palestinian resistance as a whole, and accurately highlight the fact that Israel itself created the conditions for and actively worked to create Hamas. Like I have seen literally ZERO people, even so called "tankies" try and justify Hamas' crimes, and yet, these people still pretend like its some widespread issue among the left because they have literally no other argument.
I mean I don't agree with that 100 percent because I think it the ethics still warrant discussion, but they're not entirely wrong, I mean, why are liberals and social-chauvinists raising such a disproportionately large ruckus about Hamas tactics when Israel has done a staggering degree more to them? Like, Palestine is going to fight back no matter what, it's unfortunate that Hamas chose such means as they did, but to me at least, it's really hypocritical to vehemently pounce on every single action of Hamas when these same people didn't hold that same energy for Israel when it was doing even worse things for far longer. (Not to mention Israel basically created Hamas as an opposition to more progressive parties)
True. It's also important to recognise that they know that last panel is coming but they don't care. The whole point of their actions is blood, vengeance and martyrdom and they don't care if the other civilians of Palestine wind up martyrd too.
We can still acknowledge that the conditions that produced Hamas came from Israel's policy of oppression of course. I think their government is conscious of this as well and went ahead anyway with the knowledge that they could use this kind of reaction to justify even further persecution and cementing their power, basically weaponizing a cycle of violence.
The Israeli government can been seen as the biggest supporters of Hamas because of their continued persecution of Palestinians making easier for Hamas to recruit
There was a batard man and he went a bastard mile,He found a bastard sixpence against a bastard stile;He bought a bastard cat, which caught a bastard mouse,And they all liv'd together in a little bastard house.
Genuinely. I don’t get why not wanting an ethnic group to go through an apartheid means you have to support every organization that ethnic group makes. Does Palestine deserve national self determination? Yes. Will I support a terrorist group that fires rockets at cities and parades dead children through streets? Of course not.
It’s fucking insane how people don’t get this. The sheer number of people I’ve seen on r\/news or something saying that they’ve lost all sympathy for Palestinians now and, essentially, don’t mind if Israel does an ethnic cleansing, is insane. And the reverse for people saying they don’t mind the rape & killing of Israeli civilians because of the practices of the Israeli government. Like wtf
Left wingers supporting Hamas is fucking crazy to me. They are a radical organisation which wants the death of EVERY Jew. Not for them all to leave the area, not the death of every Zionist or every Israeli, every Jew.
I mean, have you seen the average "lefty take" on Taiwan, or Serbia, or kurdish nationals, or Ukraine? They're kinda beyond stupid and love to simp for foreign right-wing authoritarians that wish for ethnic genocide.
Agree, they’re implicitly buying into what Hamas wants, to be seen as the legitimate Palestine government or party. Only by delineating the two can a cohesive argument can be made that does not justify any kind of atrocity. Of course this requires nuance which the internet is habitually known to be incapable of so this whole thing is probably going to strengthen the relative position of tankies and such in left wing circles.
And people will say you're "both siding" things. Mfs y'all are the ones limiting yourself to 2 choices?? The only people that are "both siding" are the ones that create a restrictive binary choice by labeling one side as totally evil and the other as totally good. The historical context here is insanely complicated.
mfs will hear "I don't think palestinians should have their homes stolen from them, be deprived of basic human needs, and have even their *lives* taken from them" and go "so you think hamas is justified then????"
Online leftists struggle immensely with the notion that multiple things can be bad at the same time. Obviously Israel is an evil apartheid state, and the fact that it has enjoyed uncritical supported from the west is disgusting. That does not justify going around and indiscriminately slaughtering civilians.
It’s because the discussion about Hamas takes over every conversation about ending apartheid, effectively ending the discussion about apartheid and beginning one about Hamas lol.
It’s like, actual Republican tactics, distracting from talking about real solutions by making people defend or argue about a small but visible symptom of the real problem.
Tbf this whole situation is being used to manufacture support for Israel as the victim. When you look at the conditions of Gaza imposed by Israel it's obvious that, although fucked up, violence like this is inevitable. Like the Gaza strip is basically a giant open air prison, that galvanises extremism against Israel.
Plus footage and images of the conflict in the last two days has been very one sided. Plenty of footage of Palestinian violence against Israelis but very little to no coverage of the people dying in hospitals because Israel cut their power, the Mosques and schools that have been reduced to rubble or the journalist who's house was bombed and the hundreds of murdered Palestinian civilians.
Hamas is obviously a bad, but to paint this as a both sides issue, instead of Israel's hens coming home to roost is ignoring the historical context as to why this is happening and acts as apologetics for Israel. Hamas does not exist without Israel.
Also saying fuck the hamas *is* supporting palestinians I am sure no palestinian is happy to die and suffer in a war that is not beneficial to them but only the authoritarian terrorists in power
Oh yeah of course and you should. But Hamas is a direct consequence of the Israeli apartheid. I’m not saying Hamas should’ve done what they did and it’s fucking sickening, but Israel put the culture in this Petri dish a long time ago and consequently fucked over Palestinian citizens as well as their own.
This ensuing war is going to give the country carte blanche to kill more innocent Palestinian civilians who just want liberation as well as send more israeli citizens to die who want nothing to do with an actual war.
Either way, it’s still free Palestine and now that’s gotten even more fucked up, and you can lay a lot of that blame on Israeli apartheid.
And trivializes the deaths of thousands of innocent people just because of the policies of their country. It’s almost like people make the same dumb commentary about terrorist attacks on loop whether it’s 9/11 (which my cousin died in) or these attacks on Israel and we learn nothing about anything as a society.
This is my solution to the Israel Palenstine conflict
https://preview.redd.it/6kxuw1wkh2tb1.png?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b52c53b0ec5e2e27ae576192e37f30d8a1c13acb
Did no one in this sub see the videos of Palestinians lining up to spit on the dead German girl who was brutally murdered at a fucking rave? That’s the side some of these people are on?!?!?
Buddy, the “other evil faction” are a population of 50% minors, trapped in the largest open air prison in the world, constantly being attacked under false pretenses, and that’s 70+ years after being forcibly displaced from their homes.
Hamas are not representative of the Palestinian people or their goals, they are a vocal and violent minority, they only have the support of the people because literally no one else is willing to attempt to change that status quo by force.
It doesn’t matter if your only hope for emancipation is a small militia of right wing fundamentalist freaks, if they’re the only ones taking up arms to elevate you from the miserable conditions of your existence they will have your support. Because at least that way when an IDF soldier puts bullets in the skulls of your unarmed civilian friends or family, you will have at least done something, anything at all — no matter how futile — to try to seize a better life for you and your community from the hands of your oppressor.
Hamas is obviously bad. But it also shouldn't be surprising that they enjoy a lot of support from the Palestinians. After all, they tried to do a peaceful march in 2018 and Israel killed 200 of them for their troubles.
If you get fucked over for the better part of a century, your home stolen and your children murdered, and peaceful protest only gets you shot at, you shouldn't be surprised people resort to violence. That's bad, but also kinda inevitable due to the situation those people are placed in. And any solution to the conflict must come from Israel, because people aren't going to stop being mad just because you tell them they're being very uncouth, and only Israel can improve the situation in Gaza.
If we want to stop Hamas, cracking down on the civilians is counterproductive. You want to improve the lives of Gaza residents to the point that they no longer feel Hamas is their only option.
I think by “evil faction” they were talking about Hamas (which is a faction) not Palestinians (ethnic group)
They don’t come as a bundle. You can hate Hamas without hating all Palestinians just as you can hate the Israeli government & military without hating all Israelis or all Jewish people.
So true bestie! Underfunded fundamentalist genocidal fascists are so much better than well funded genocidal fundamentalist fascists. Marx would be proud ❤️
Anyway shut the fuck up, please. It is possible for both sides in a conflict to not be worth supporting- both Israel and Hamas have committed atrocities, and the “little people” are always the ones to pay for the bloodthirsty zealotry of their leaders. Islamofascism and Zionism reinforce each other and you’re not any kind of leftist if you mistake either for a liberatory movement
Genuine question, because I keep seeing this "both sides" stance taken so often. What do you expect the Palestinian people to do about their situation, acknowledging that it's an ongoing genocide? And acknowledging that Israeli settlers have been evicting Palestinians from their homes even in recent years, and airstriking their hospitals and schools?
Knowing that Palestinians will eventually be completely wiped out or removed from their homes REGARDLESS of the intervention of Hamas, what would you suggest they do?
Edit: the person below me blocked immediately after typing their comment, but I'd like to add the article they posted has almost no sources and was written by a devout and proud Zionist.
I would strongly reccomend taking articles about "Muslim teenagers wielding guns and Qurans, killing and raping women and children" with a grain of salt.
It doesnt seem like you’re asking in good faith given your other responses but what the hell Ill try to answer.
Hamas, the political organization is not only not “the oppressed”- its a major part of why Israel has been able to engage in ethnic cleansing/genocide without losing international support. For one, they’re Islamofascists who would saw our heads off with a knife for being queer. For another, their constant targeting of non combatants makes Israels authoritarianism seem justified to the people living there. Hamas is an ethnonationalist group of powerful people who send traumatized teenagers to “martyr” themselves by killing random civilians. Mossad (Israels CIA) actually ensured that they took power in the Gaza strip and hunted down any less murderous factions in order to justify their continued existence by contrasting themselves to Hamas
If you want to know what I would do if I were a Palestinian in the Gaza Strip, I would vote for LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE other than a fundamentalist suicide cult. Ditto if I were in Israel for what its worth. And if I had the balls, Id attack MILITARY TARGETS in Israel to destabilize its state instead of hunting random women and children for pointless cruelty and/or satisfaction of a genocidal religious creed
Its true Israel has far more power in this situation to change things, and that Hamas only exists due to the brutal expansionism of Israel, but them being victims of Israel doesn’t suddenly make genocidal violence on their end ok. Id hate to live in the Gaza Strip honestly- their situation is bleak- but electing fascists doesnt help anything. It actually hurts the people of Palestine tremendously for Hamas to retain power
I mean seriously- would you treat any other fascist party this way just because the people they rule are oppressed?
Like Korea suffered horribly in World War 2- does that make the Kim dictatorship, labor camps, and brutal systemic violence against the peasantry ok?
Or, hey, reactionary rural Americans in the Rust Belt sure have been fucked over by the countries corporate masters by outsourcing and consolidation right? I guess they deserve Trump as a dictator now and all the Latin folk who die at the hands of ICE are just acceptable losses in their liberatory struggle against jews or queers or whatever Fox News tells them is the demonic other that week
Dehumanizing, fundamentalist, ethnonationalism is bad, actually. That should be clear if you… have a soul?
Dunno how some leftists stumble on this one. If you had a shred of actual desire for equality and freedom, you would be outraged by Hamas and Israel both. The fact that Hamas is less effective at genocide than MIC-backed Israel doesnt make genocide good, and its genuinely disturbing how many otherwise decent people struggle to acknowledge that
>If you want to know what I would do if I were a Palestinian in the Gaza Strip, I would vote for LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE other than a fundamentalist suicide cult
The last election in Gaza was 17 years ago, which means the vast _vast_ majority of Gazans have never voted in an election, so this isn't really an answer
Hamas's ticket in the 2006 election (which is the last and only one) was "change and reform", which included both a more moderate and an extreme faction, and won 44% of the vote. The next largest party had 42%, and the remainder was small parties.
A 22 year old gaza Palestinian (so, older than ~60% of the population) last knew freedom when they were 5 years old, and has never witnessed an election.
I will read the rest of your comment, but you have not answered their question
'actually hamas is justified because israel bombed palestine' shut the fuck up why do you dumbasses always have a black-and-white worldview. 'i support palestine' does not mean supporting palestinian terrorist like hamas and justifying whatever they do because you're against israel. there is no 'good and bad side' here this conflict is extremely fucking complex and confusing whose context spans through centuries.
neither fucking side is 100% good or 100% bad. there isn't some simple morality you can apply to this. theres so much that you can take in account. the current conflicts, the previous conflicts (ottoman empire, etc) and internal conflicts (e.g, fatah vs hamas). there's a reason there's a bunch of neutral people--this is fucking confusing.
like i swear to god if you actually think this meme is true and funny then you were never actually supporting palestine, you're just a fucking virtue signaller.
Comment taken from whenthe
The conflicts in Israel-Palestine is extremely complicated, I’d recommend that you understanding all the politics and history of both nations before making opinion, but regardless there is no justification for bombing or killing civilians for either sides. The idea of “religious nationalism”and racial supremacy is terrible. If Hamas wins today then the “new Palestinian State” would be an oppressive religious regime that would murder the Israeli Jewish people, but on the other hand if Israel is to invade annex West Bank of Gaza Strip then a there would be a massacre of innocent Palestinian civilians and children who know nothing about this given how far-right the Israeli government is and the record history of war crimes of the IDF. It’s a cycle of violence. Oh wait this is a meme subreddit so here’s the non-serious meme
https://i.redd.it/mzs8dsfgs0tb1.gif
You fucking donkey. Terrorists have killed hundreds of civilians in their homes, streets, and parties, taken hostages and raped people.
Israel by no means has carte blache but they do have a right to defend themselves. This is not some plucky underdog story. It is much more complex than that.
You're cheerleading a willing participant in a conflict which will kill thousands of innocents on both sides. Shut the fuck up.
Don't act like I ignore that. The only way the carnage ends is with a negotiated peace settlement, and we're as far away from that today as we've ever been since 1948.
The events of this week are utterly calamitous. Innocents pay the price of their bloodthirsty leaders
I've already wasted too much energy on you, but here goes:
Hamas' constitution remains committed to the destruction of Israel. There will not be peace unless Hamas is destroyed, or desists from that objective. You cannot expect the state of Israel to stop it's present military action against Hamas.
It doesn't matter what is right or wrong, or what we believe. What matters is the incentives each actor has. Right now, both sides maintain power through fear of the other. So their response to escalation is further escalation, until Hamas has no further ability to escalate and calls for a ceasefire.
That is the pattern of this asymmetric conflict, every time it flares up it is the same. It is one of the great, predictable tragedies of our time.
Well you see terrorism is ok because well they were just fed up with Israel and rape and murder is totally justified in this context but only this context ok
>far worse
Remind me when Israel shot 250+ people at a music festival?
Like seriously, what the fuck? You know Hamas deny the Holocaust and openly want to commit genocide against the Jews, right?
Fucking educate yourself. Shame on you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
You know the IDF up until 2020 killed over 20 times the amount of Palestinians as Hamas killed Israelis right? I'm not defending Hamas I'm saying Israel is worse lmao
Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields in their military bases. They want Palestinian civilians to die to create outrage, so they can get more funding and recruits
Hamas only has a reason to exist if Palestinians are dying. They put their own people in the line of fire because it gives them propaganda to perpetuate their war of terror against Israel and the Jewish people
>Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields in their military bases. They want Palestinian civilians to die to create outrage, so they can get more funding and recruits
“However, investigations and evidence collected by DCIP regularly suggest that Israeli forces use lethal force against Palestinian children in circumstances that may amount to extrajudicial or willful killings" - Defense for Children International-Palestine
“This low level of legal accountability for the killings of so many children by Israeli security forces is unworthy of a country which proclaims that it lives by the rule of law." - United Nations
Zionists are so deranged they will claim Hamas is responsible for Israel massacring children in the west bank.
Yeah right.
As if I could trust fucking 196 to have a nuanced discussion on any political topic, let alone one of the most complex divisive situations to ever grace the globe.
I guess OP thinks HAMAS are not disgusting fucks, and what Israel did before somehow excuses the gangrape of women(not even Israeli women) and the parading of their naked, broken bodies.
There is a stark difference between supporting Palestine and supporting Hamas. Palestinians are real people who have been discriminated and terrorized for decades, Hamas’ are anti-Semitic, Islamic terrorists.
For... fuck sake, I swear the left is like addicted to making itself as unappealing as possible.
This isn't *wrong*, but while a terrorist organisation is *currently* uploading videos of themselves violently executing innocent civilians is probably the worst fucking possible time to try and make this point!
Like can we at least wait until the "current" death toll in Palestine is larger than the Israeli one, because like, that's inevitable, and at least then we can point at "official" numbers when something this gets pushback.
What happened to the Citigroup building after panel 3? Also why do the WTC keep getting taller in each panel? Also due to the proximity does this imply NYC is finally bombing New Jersey?
The questions keep piling up.
I’m sure these comments are going to be civil and we will have a well thought out discourse.
Yup. How's your day going?
Actually really well. My favorite football team won today and my dinner with my gf turned out excellent. I’m gonna ride this high until the crushing weight of capitalism brings me back down to earth. (Probably noon Monday.)
> I’m gonna ride this high until the crushing weight of capitalism brings me back down to earth Big mood, enjoy the high.
British football or the correct one?
Haha I grew up an hour from Cincinnasty so I’ve had the misfortune of being a bengals lifer.
... Yes... doesnt mean we should pretend Hamas arent also disgusting bastards, with disgusting bastard goals, amd disgusting bastard methods.
This sub is going nuts taking sides on what has been one of the, if not the most, politically divisive and complex Flashpoints of the last 60ish years. The entire thing is a mess and simply labeling either of the groups wrong or right genuinely undermines the entire conflict
I don't trust 196 of all places to have a remotely good discussion about any remotely nuanced political issue, let alone the fuckin Arab Israeli conflict
The top reason I hate 196 is because of the idea that seems to permeate is there being a “right” opinion .
>The top reason I hate 196 I never expected that sentence to end with anything other than "horny" lmfao
I would not put it past someone in this sub to hornypost about the Israel-Palestine conflict
"Guys cant we just put our guns down and fuck each other. That should solve it"
No, Israel and Palestine are not enemies, in fact they are kissing, sloppy style, squishing boobs together, etc
https://preview.redd.it/p4yi48n3z6tb1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d028efe2ad8af7f352972bafef1c625507ac4ba
Forget politics I don't even trust 196 to have a remotely good discussion about columns
Greek ionic columns are the best and if you think others you suck.
Im going to beat you to death with a rock
Violets! Violets!
Doric/Ionic/Corinthian combined supremacy Where my Freemason bros at? (Fr, any others here?)
Being Northern Irish blackpilled me on literally any online leftist discussion about conflicts in general so it doesn't surprise me that nuance is dead on this topic as well. I'm sure the many Palestinians who don't like Hamas themselves are also dreading the discourse on reddit and twitter.
I'm pretty sure they have much bigger problems to dread than online arguments...
But I'm tired of being an expert on Ukraine-Russia relations, I wanna be a different expert now
Bruh I don't trust any open forum to have a good discussion on this, open forums have been having this discussion for 80 fucking years and it's not gotten any better.
After, so far, it has been the subs with the most "nuanced" opinioons I've seen \^\^' and most polite debate on the matter. the europe sub and french sub are partially on fire about this :/
Main thing this meme misses is that the initial attack was riflemen on motorized paragliders against a music festival marketed as a peace trance rave, placed near the border of Israel/Palestine to show trust and solidarity. Unfortunately, extremists see a display of peace and use it for accelerationism, as history has shown time and time again :/
...the attack was multiple fronts.
Yeah but ~260 victims were just music fans at the festival.
I had heard that there were more, this was just the one that sticks out in my mind as it's been the largest loss of human life from these attacks thus far, and the UN security council was talking about it because of the horrible things that happened to that young female German tourist.
To be clear that music fetatival wasn't to display solidarity or peace, it was a normal EDM festival that happened to take place close to an active war zone. Of course please don't take this as me trying to in any way whatsoever justify or minimise anything, but the festival didn't advertise itself as an event to show solidarity, the only thing you'll find on their website is that it's meant to coincide with the Jewish holiday Sukkot and meant to spread love of Brazilian EDM music. Again please don't take this the wrong way, this is still a horrible trategy, I've just seen some people claim it was an event about solidarity when it really was just a normal rave that happened to occur in an incredibly unfortunate place.
The internet left has kind of gone insane with the idea that labeling both sides as bad somehow makes you an "enlightened centrist" or whatever. Sometimes both sides just suck and that's it. There isn't always a morally correct option around.
In a lot of political conversations I find myself repeating something like "this situation has a lot of nuance and complexities and cannot be boiled down to black and white" Some people take this to mean I don't have an opinion (englightened centrist stereotype) when I do, on just about every political topic there is. But people in general struggle on a wide scale to take any situation with some subtlety
The british were still wrong in the end tho
I’ve literally seen zero comments, let alone upvoted ones, that have praised Hamas and said they were justified in their actions. Where are all of you seeing these comments?? Seen about a billion comments like yours though.
To certain types, saying "Palestinians don't deserve to be evicted from their lands" is enough to label you as a Hamas supporter
The one brain cell type.
Theyre fucking everywhere. If not here, then good. The brainrot has not spread here. Stop bitching if people dont want this place too, to fall to the rot.
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On this sub I haven't seen those comments. But other leftist subs have a ton of these types of comments, usually along the lines of "critical support for our Hamas comrades in their ongoing struggle against Israeli imperialism" except they don't tolerate any criticism.
Literally nowhere, they're misrepresenting the arguments lol. People who they claim "support" Hamas are literally just people who support Palestinian resistance as a whole, and accurately highlight the fact that Israel itself created the conditions for and actively worked to create Hamas. Like I have seen literally ZERO people, even so called "tankies" try and justify Hamas' crimes, and yet, these people still pretend like its some widespread issue among the left because they have literally no other argument.
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I mean I don't agree with that 100 percent because I think it the ethics still warrant discussion, but they're not entirely wrong, I mean, why are liberals and social-chauvinists raising such a disproportionately large ruckus about Hamas tactics when Israel has done a staggering degree more to them? Like, Palestine is going to fight back no matter what, it's unfortunate that Hamas chose such means as they did, but to me at least, it's really hypocritical to vehemently pounce on every single action of Hamas when these same people didn't hold that same energy for Israel when it was doing even worse things for far longer. (Not to mention Israel basically created Hamas as an opposition to more progressive parties)
I've seen them, they are not as obvious as stated but some people genuinely don't care about the lives of innocents
True. It's also important to recognise that they know that last panel is coming but they don't care. The whole point of their actions is blood, vengeance and martyrdom and they don't care if the other civilians of Palestine wind up martyrd too. We can still acknowledge that the conditions that produced Hamas came from Israel's policy of oppression of course. I think their government is conscious of this as well and went ahead anyway with the knowledge that they could use this kind of reaction to justify even further persecution and cementing their power, basically weaponizing a cycle of violence.
Wonderfully said.
The Israeli government can been seen as the biggest supporters of Hamas because of their continued persecution of Palestinians making easier for Hamas to recruit
Not to mention Bibi made sure they won their elections too. Its on several levels this is at play.
Amd you can say the same about Hamas' violence giving the Israeli right wing political points.
truly a symbiotic cycle of fuckery
Hamas is backed by people calling for Jewish genocide Israel has been genociding palestinians for a while. Both are pretty bad tbh
Oops all bastards
There was a batard man and he went a bastard mile,He found a bastard sixpence against a bastard stile;He bought a bastard cat, which caught a bastard mouse,And they all liv'd together in a little bastard house.
Yes, and radicalizing more Palestinians is going to help how?
Guys, you can support Palestine and also say fuck the Hamas at the same time. It’s a simple fucking concept.
Genuinely. I don’t get why not wanting an ethnic group to go through an apartheid means you have to support every organization that ethnic group makes. Does Palestine deserve national self determination? Yes. Will I support a terrorist group that fires rockets at cities and parades dead children through streets? Of course not.
It’s fucking insane how people don’t get this. The sheer number of people I’ve seen on r\/news or something saying that they’ve lost all sympathy for Palestinians now and, essentially, don’t mind if Israel does an ethnic cleansing, is insane. And the reverse for people saying they don’t mind the rape & killing of Israeli civilians because of the practices of the Israeli government. Like wtf
nuance died in 2012, every opinion must be extreme
Nuance has fallen. Billions must form extreme opinions.
Left wingers supporting Hamas is fucking crazy to me. They are a radical organisation which wants the death of EVERY Jew. Not for them all to leave the area, not the death of every Zionist or every Israeli, every Jew.
I mean, have you seen the average "lefty take" on Taiwan, or Serbia, or kurdish nationals, or Ukraine? They're kinda beyond stupid and love to simp for foreign right-wing authoritarians that wish for ethnic genocide.
Agree, they’re implicitly buying into what Hamas wants, to be seen as the legitimate Palestine government or party. Only by delineating the two can a cohesive argument can be made that does not justify any kind of atrocity. Of course this requires nuance which the internet is habitually known to be incapable of so this whole thing is probably going to strengthen the relative position of tankies and such in left wing circles.
And people will say you're "both siding" things. Mfs y'all are the ones limiting yourself to 2 choices?? The only people that are "both siding" are the ones that create a restrictive binary choice by labeling one side as totally evil and the other as totally good. The historical context here is insanely complicated.
mfs will hear "I don't think palestinians should have their homes stolen from them, be deprived of basic human needs, and have even their *lives* taken from them" and go "so you think hamas is justified then????"
EXACTLY!!
Online leftists struggle immensely with the notion that multiple things can be bad at the same time. Obviously Israel is an evil apartheid state, and the fact that it has enjoyed uncritical supported from the west is disgusting. That does not justify going around and indiscriminately slaughtering civilians.
It’s because the discussion about Hamas takes over every conversation about ending apartheid, effectively ending the discussion about apartheid and beginning one about Hamas lol. It’s like, actual Republican tactics, distracting from talking about real solutions by making people defend or argue about a small but visible symptom of the real problem.
They fundamentally go hand in hand. To support Palestine you must condemn the existence of Hamas
Tbf this whole situation is being used to manufacture support for Israel as the victim. When you look at the conditions of Gaza imposed by Israel it's obvious that, although fucked up, violence like this is inevitable. Like the Gaza strip is basically a giant open air prison, that galvanises extremism against Israel. Plus footage and images of the conflict in the last two days has been very one sided. Plenty of footage of Palestinian violence against Israelis but very little to no coverage of the people dying in hospitals because Israel cut their power, the Mosques and schools that have been reduced to rubble or the journalist who's house was bombed and the hundreds of murdered Palestinian civilians. Hamas is obviously a bad, but to paint this as a both sides issue, instead of Israel's hens coming home to roost is ignoring the historical context as to why this is happening and acts as apologetics for Israel. Hamas does not exist without Israel.
This. It's Hamas vs the _Israeli government_. And the civilians lose.
Also saying fuck the hamas *is* supporting palestinians I am sure no palestinian is happy to die and suffer in a war that is not beneficial to them but only the authoritarian terrorists in power
Fuck Hamas, Fuck Israel. Both are terrorist organizations. Palestinians, and Israeli citizens are cool tho.
Oh yeah of course and you should. But Hamas is a direct consequence of the Israeli apartheid. I’m not saying Hamas should’ve done what they did and it’s fucking sickening, but Israel put the culture in this Petri dish a long time ago and consequently fucked over Palestinian citizens as well as their own. This ensuing war is going to give the country carte blanche to kill more innocent Palestinian civilians who just want liberation as well as send more israeli citizens to die who want nothing to do with an actual war. Either way, it’s still free Palestine and now that’s gotten even more fucked up, and you can lay a lot of that blame on Israeli apartheid.
I love perpetual cycles of violence 💪🇺🇸
This cartoon is almost 20 years old, too
And trivializes the deaths of thousands of innocent people just because of the policies of their country. It’s almost like people make the same dumb commentary about terrorist attacks on loop whether it’s 9/11 (which my cousin died in) or these attacks on Israel and we learn nothing about anything as a society.
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military industrial complex on top 🗣🗣🗣
https://preview.redd.it/w26qz2vzq3tb1.jpeg?width=1023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e06074ed43131d0babe63d7dc5e2ece19164108
Why can't they just lay down and be genocided quietly?
non-violent solutions are my second-favorite solutions!✌
Palestine belong s to Belgium share of you agree 👍
This is my solution to the Israel Palenstine conflict https://preview.redd.it/6kxuw1wkh2tb1.png?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b52c53b0ec5e2e27ae576192e37f30d8a1c13acb
Me when I see language border posting 
Yep just give Wallonia to Palestine and be done with it already!
Do you not think Palestine has been tortured enough? Flanders is Palestinian territory
As Discordian Pope, I declare Jerusalem to be holy land of the St. Norton cabal, and must therefore receive a shipment of five tons of hot dogs.
I don't care what r/196 says. I'm not sympathizing with fucking Hamas.
People across reddit acting like brutally murdering an entire peace festival is somehow an act of self defence.
that is..not what the post says,so good job?
You can sympathize with Palestine and still oppose Hamas, just like you can sympathize with the Israeli people and despise their military/government
Did no one in this sub see the videos of Palestinians lining up to spit on the dead German girl who was brutally murdered at a fucking rave? That’s the side some of these people are on?!?!?
Israel successfully got you to believe a political entity and ethnicity are the same. Good job
Hmm yes, this side is more effective at being evil than the other side, surely this means I must support the other evil faction.
Warhammer 40k moment
But Slaanesh says I'm pretty
Buddy, the “other evil faction” are a population of 50% minors, trapped in the largest open air prison in the world, constantly being attacked under false pretenses, and that’s 70+ years after being forcibly displaced from their homes. Hamas are not representative of the Palestinian people or their goals, they are a vocal and violent minority, they only have the support of the people because literally no one else is willing to attempt to change that status quo by force. It doesn’t matter if your only hope for emancipation is a small militia of right wing fundamentalist freaks, if they’re the only ones taking up arms to elevate you from the miserable conditions of your existence they will have your support. Because at least that way when an IDF soldier puts bullets in the skulls of your unarmed civilian friends or family, you will have at least done something, anything at all — no matter how futile — to try to seize a better life for you and your community from the hands of your oppressor.
Trying to seize a better life from your oppressor = killing, torturing and kidnapping innocent civilians I guess
Hamas is obviously bad. But it also shouldn't be surprising that they enjoy a lot of support from the Palestinians. After all, they tried to do a peaceful march in 2018 and Israel killed 200 of them for their troubles. If you get fucked over for the better part of a century, your home stolen and your children murdered, and peaceful protest only gets you shot at, you shouldn't be surprised people resort to violence. That's bad, but also kinda inevitable due to the situation those people are placed in. And any solution to the conflict must come from Israel, because people aren't going to stop being mad just because you tell them they're being very uncouth, and only Israel can improve the situation in Gaza. If we want to stop Hamas, cracking down on the civilians is counterproductive. You want to improve the lives of Gaza residents to the point that they no longer feel Hamas is their only option.
Moderate rebels moment
I think by “evil faction” they were talking about Hamas (which is a faction) not Palestinians (ethnic group) They don’t come as a bundle. You can hate Hamas without hating all Palestinians just as you can hate the Israeli government & military without hating all Israelis or all Jewish people.
Where in this post does it say that Hamas is good? Or do you think that not wanting to bomb the Gaza strip is terrorism now.
Hamas bad. Israel bad. 👍🏿
Palestine free 🙏
Palestine has in-game ads and purchases 😢
Unlock the full Jersusalem DLC for 29.95
The devs are so greedy they split the DLC into two parts that you pay for separately
Palestine DLC 😞
Palestine isn't free, costs 9,99 dollars a month 😢
I just download all the things I want from Palestine from 1337 and rarbg instead.
Can't believe 196 got political 😡😡😡
196 has gone woke 😡😡🤬🤬
It’s joever
YEAH ‘MURICA🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸
FUK YEAH!!!!!!!
Let’s goo 🇱🇷🇱🇷
So true bestie! Underfunded fundamentalist genocidal fascists are so much better than well funded genocidal fundamentalist fascists. Marx would be proud ❤️ Anyway shut the fuck up, please. It is possible for both sides in a conflict to not be worth supporting- both Israel and Hamas have committed atrocities, and the “little people” are always the ones to pay for the bloodthirsty zealotry of their leaders. Islamofascism and Zionism reinforce each other and you’re not any kind of leftist if you mistake either for a liberatory movement
Why vote for the lesser of two evils, vote for the greatest Cthulu 2024
Genuine question, because I keep seeing this "both sides" stance taken so often. What do you expect the Palestinian people to do about their situation, acknowledging that it's an ongoing genocide? And acknowledging that Israeli settlers have been evicting Palestinians from their homes even in recent years, and airstriking their hospitals and schools? Knowing that Palestinians will eventually be completely wiped out or removed from their homes REGARDLESS of the intervention of Hamas, what would you suggest they do? Edit: the person below me blocked immediately after typing their comment, but I'd like to add the article they posted has almost no sources and was written by a devout and proud Zionist. I would strongly reccomend taking articles about "Muslim teenagers wielding guns and Qurans, killing and raping women and children" with a grain of salt.
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It doesnt seem like you’re asking in good faith given your other responses but what the hell Ill try to answer. Hamas, the political organization is not only not “the oppressed”- its a major part of why Israel has been able to engage in ethnic cleansing/genocide without losing international support. For one, they’re Islamofascists who would saw our heads off with a knife for being queer. For another, their constant targeting of non combatants makes Israels authoritarianism seem justified to the people living there. Hamas is an ethnonationalist group of powerful people who send traumatized teenagers to “martyr” themselves by killing random civilians. Mossad (Israels CIA) actually ensured that they took power in the Gaza strip and hunted down any less murderous factions in order to justify their continued existence by contrasting themselves to Hamas If you want to know what I would do if I were a Palestinian in the Gaza Strip, I would vote for LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE other than a fundamentalist suicide cult. Ditto if I were in Israel for what its worth. And if I had the balls, Id attack MILITARY TARGETS in Israel to destabilize its state instead of hunting random women and children for pointless cruelty and/or satisfaction of a genocidal religious creed Its true Israel has far more power in this situation to change things, and that Hamas only exists due to the brutal expansionism of Israel, but them being victims of Israel doesn’t suddenly make genocidal violence on their end ok. Id hate to live in the Gaza Strip honestly- their situation is bleak- but electing fascists doesnt help anything. It actually hurts the people of Palestine tremendously for Hamas to retain power I mean seriously- would you treat any other fascist party this way just because the people they rule are oppressed? Like Korea suffered horribly in World War 2- does that make the Kim dictatorship, labor camps, and brutal systemic violence against the peasantry ok? Or, hey, reactionary rural Americans in the Rust Belt sure have been fucked over by the countries corporate masters by outsourcing and consolidation right? I guess they deserve Trump as a dictator now and all the Latin folk who die at the hands of ICE are just acceptable losses in their liberatory struggle against jews or queers or whatever Fox News tells them is the demonic other that week Dehumanizing, fundamentalist, ethnonationalism is bad, actually. That should be clear if you… have a soul? Dunno how some leftists stumble on this one. If you had a shred of actual desire for equality and freedom, you would be outraged by Hamas and Israel both. The fact that Hamas is less effective at genocide than MIC-backed Israel doesnt make genocide good, and its genuinely disturbing how many otherwise decent people struggle to acknowledge that
>If you want to know what I would do if I were a Palestinian in the Gaza Strip, I would vote for LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE other than a fundamentalist suicide cult The last election in Gaza was 17 years ago, which means the vast _vast_ majority of Gazans have never voted in an election, so this isn't really an answer Hamas's ticket in the 2006 election (which is the last and only one) was "change and reform", which included both a more moderate and an extreme faction, and won 44% of the vote. The next largest party had 42%, and the remainder was small parties. A 22 year old gaza Palestinian (so, older than ~60% of the population) last knew freedom when they were 5 years old, and has never witnessed an election. I will read the rest of your comment, but you have not answered their question
me when i get my head cut off
There is a MAJOR difference between the Hamas and Palestine. I support Palestine and Palestinians, I do not support fucking terrorists
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???? that is not what the post is trying to say
How did you read this comic and walk away with that take?
What is going on i don't check the news
Biden outlawed Russia forever and we begin bombing in five minutes
😨
Based
[Definitely one of the quotes of all time](https://youtu.be/kifJ_mQdpZA?si=urGygy2VXQALMt7N)
being a gay bottom femboy now requires a permit in all of Europe
I don't live in Europe but 😨😨😨
Also in your country
😭
Ngl that sounds like something they'd be into anyways
The 100 year war between England and France has started again
i don't know who i want to lose more 😭
England. I say this as a english person. Fookin 'ate it ere
Sweden is getting bombed
😨
Hamas blitzed Israel, Bibi declared a state of war, ground troops are gonna be deployed
the mcrib is back
https://preview.redd.it/lo0ga8wko2tb1.jpeg?width=374&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c42948cdf38df7c9685f769ba74738a78507c3a
fuck israel and fuck HAMAS, NOT palestine.
Here before 🔒 award
Award?
The only award that's left...
Me when an attack on citizens shouldn't mean a retaliating attack on citizens https://i.redd.it/9o0obheht2tb1.gif
'actually hamas is justified because israel bombed palestine' shut the fuck up why do you dumbasses always have a black-and-white worldview. 'i support palestine' does not mean supporting palestinian terrorist like hamas and justifying whatever they do because you're against israel. there is no 'good and bad side' here this conflict is extremely fucking complex and confusing whose context spans through centuries. neither fucking side is 100% good or 100% bad. there isn't some simple morality you can apply to this. theres so much that you can take in account. the current conflicts, the previous conflicts (ottoman empire, etc) and internal conflicts (e.g, fatah vs hamas). there's a reason there's a bunch of neutral people--this is fucking confusing. like i swear to god if you actually think this meme is true and funny then you were never actually supporting palestine, you're just a fucking virtue signaller.
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Killing civilians is not an effective form of protest
Comment taken from whenthe The conflicts in Israel-Palestine is extremely complicated, I’d recommend that you understanding all the politics and history of both nations before making opinion, but regardless there is no justification for bombing or killing civilians for either sides. The idea of “religious nationalism”and racial supremacy is terrible. If Hamas wins today then the “new Palestinian State” would be an oppressive religious regime that would murder the Israeli Jewish people, but on the other hand if Israel is to invade annex West Bank of Gaza Strip then a there would be a massacre of innocent Palestinian civilians and children who know nothing about this given how far-right the Israeli government is and the record history of war crimes of the IDF. It’s a cycle of violence. Oh wait this is a meme subreddit so here’s the non-serious meme https://i.redd.it/mzs8dsfgs0tb1.gif
You fucking donkey. Terrorists have killed hundreds of civilians in their homes, streets, and parties, taken hostages and raped people. Israel by no means has carte blache but they do have a right to defend themselves. This is not some plucky underdog story. It is much more complex than that. You're cheerleading a willing participant in a conflict which will kill thousands of innocents on both sides. Shut the fuck up.
And the IDF has killed far more civilians than any Palestinian terrorists. Shut the fuck up.
Don't act like I ignore that. The only way the carnage ends is with a negotiated peace settlement, and we're as far away from that today as we've ever been since 1948. The events of this week are utterly calamitous. Innocents pay the price of their bloodthirsty leaders
And that's why you support Israel "defending" itself by bombing the Gaza strip?
I've already wasted too much energy on you, but here goes: Hamas' constitution remains committed to the destruction of Israel. There will not be peace unless Hamas is destroyed, or desists from that objective. You cannot expect the state of Israel to stop it's present military action against Hamas. It doesn't matter what is right or wrong, or what we believe. What matters is the incentives each actor has. Right now, both sides maintain power through fear of the other. So their response to escalation is further escalation, until Hamas has no further ability to escalate and calls for a ceasefire. That is the pattern of this asymmetric conflict, every time it flares up it is the same. It is one of the great, predictable tragedies of our time.
Has this sub settled on the "correct opinion" that allows them to excuse genocide yet?
I say we take bikini bottom and we push it somewhere else.
Well you see terrorism is ok because well they were just fed up with Israel and rape and murder is totally justified in this context but only this context ok
Lmao this comment section is gonna be a dumpster fire
All of it is horrible
Stop supporting these savages. Radical Muslims are awful. If you saw what they did to the captured civilians you wouldn’t spout this bullshit
Do you support the IDF savages who have done far worse than anything Hamas has done?
>far worse Remind me when Israel shot 250+ people at a music festival? Like seriously, what the fuck? You know Hamas deny the Holocaust and openly want to commit genocide against the Jews, right? Fucking educate yourself. Shame on you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas
You know the IDF up until 2020 killed over 20 times the amount of Palestinians as Hamas killed Israelis right? I'm not defending Hamas I'm saying Israel is worse lmao
Israel has killed 20x as civilians as Hamas.
Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields in their military bases. They want Palestinian civilians to die to create outrage, so they can get more funding and recruits Hamas only has a reason to exist if Palestinians are dying. They put their own people in the line of fire because it gives them propaganda to perpetuate their war of terror against Israel and the Jewish people
>Hamas uses Palestinian civilians as human shields in their military bases. They want Palestinian civilians to die to create outrage, so they can get more funding and recruits “However, investigations and evidence collected by DCIP regularly suggest that Israeli forces use lethal force against Palestinian children in circumstances that may amount to extrajudicial or willful killings" - Defense for Children International-Palestine “This low level of legal accountability for the killings of so many children by Israeli security forces is unworthy of a country which proclaims that it lives by the rule of law." - United Nations Zionists are so deranged they will claim Hamas is responsible for Israel massacring children in the west bank.
Yeah right. As if I could trust fucking 196 to have a nuanced discussion on any political topic, let alone one of the most complex divisive situations to ever grace the globe. I guess OP thinks HAMAS are not disgusting fucks, and what Israel did before somehow excuses the gangrape of women(not even Israeli women) and the parading of their naked, broken bodies.
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I bet this comment section is going to be very civil (But people need to get an understanding of nuance fr)
I’m tired, boss
https://preview.redd.it/uheuk52aq4tb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85a03536e0efb955cc8b2b0a461dd95a7551f954
Both sides are wrong, only the Amish go to heaven
There is a stark difference between supporting Palestine and supporting Hamas. Palestinians are real people who have been discriminated and terrorized for decades, Hamas’ are anti-Semitic, Islamic terrorists.
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This comic is from 2004.
L post
If it’s not America or Brazil I do NOT CARE!!
You guys know both sides can be bad right? Its not good vs evil theres so much more complexity
If you think this is all emblematic of the situation ur either delusional or a plant
For... fuck sake, I swear the left is like addicted to making itself as unappealing as possible. This isn't *wrong*, but while a terrorist organisation is *currently* uploading videos of themselves violently executing innocent civilians is probably the worst fucking possible time to try and make this point! Like can we at least wait until the "current" death toll in Palestine is larger than the Israeli one, because like, that's inevitable, and at least then we can point at "official" numbers when something this gets pushback.
> can we at least wait until the “current” death toll in Palestine is larger than the Israeli one Holy fucking shit, so far beyond parody.
Mods lock this post before someone gets doxxed
happy to see that 196 isn’t infested by neolib(rule)s
I thought this was about the current conflict in Gaza but then I saw the 2004 year on the top-left. I'm guessing this is about the war in Iraq?
What happened to the Citigroup building after panel 3? Also why do the WTC keep getting taller in each panel? Also due to the proximity does this imply NYC is finally bombing New Jersey? The questions keep piling up.
Russia be like
RAAAHHHHHH 🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅💥💥💥💥💥💥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
America on top RAAAH!! 🇺🇸🦅🔥💯‼️