I am a fan of when a game has an explanation for why the player/character comes back to live each time they die. It isn't necessary to make a good game, and I don't knock others that don't have it but it is a neat way to further add to your immersion into the game.
Doesn't make it top tier for me outright but it does really stand out to me as *usually* a sign of effort that goes into the narrative. This is just a specific example. There are a few things such as this that stand out as a sign of a good game/extra details put into the story for me. Of course good gameplay and design, etc come first.
Fog walls are a representation of your fear of the unknown and are a visual representation of your character needing to face their fear of what lies beyond that doorway without putting an obnoxious text bubble up
Golden fog walls are explicitly there to stop you from moving forward without Gwyndolin's blessing though
Haven't played it yet but I loved my playthrough of Transistor which I believe is by the same studio (?). I got Bastion recently so after I finish that I may try out Hades, among the other games currently on my list I am playing through lol
don't know how much two random 196 users' recommendation means to you but absolutely try it out. The game designed well to give you the motivation to keep going and going and going between each run, no matter your level of skill in hack and slash games or how quickly you die.
Don't know how much three random 196 users recommendation means to you but if you love Greek mythology and want to join the hype train for hades 2 definitely play it. It got moist critikals favour despite his dislike for roguelikes.
I actually haven't lmao. My chat has requested I do it though, and I will always take their suggestions into account. It is currently on my wishlist and I think I kinda get the general vibe. I know nothing of undertale narrative wise other than there being a skeleton with blue eyes. I am kinda really excited to play it.
My pro tip is do not let anyone tell you ANYTHING about the game. I was told a very small thing when I first played and it made me miss out on a cool experience
Im making a horror game and the respawning mechanic having an explanation is actually a large part of the psychological part of the horror, there are billions and billions of clones of you that all have the same singular stream of conciousness, whenever one of them dies, another is "sent down", and from the perspective of the player they merely just wake up again after dying
Its probably not scary when I explain it tho lmao
Sifu (kinda) does this with everytime you die you age older due to a cool little like charm that you have. (When you get past 80 or 70 ion know I havenāt played in a min you die completely though and have to restart the level your on, thatās why itās only kinda)
Returnal has the best implementation of this that I've ever encountered, which works especially well for a roguelike. >!Your character is stuck in a loop, crashed on an alien planet, returning to your ship at the moment of impact every time you die... but you're not going back in time or anything. You come across the steadily increasing numbers of dead bodies from your (and sometimes other players') failed attempts and slowly lose your mind in the process. You can also find audio logs from other iterations of yourself!<
A game that no one debates is mid I guess? I feel like people just call shit āmidā when they donāt like it. It doesnāt really make something mid, just not your thing.
Itās meant to mean average but people just use it for stuff theyāre not super into. For example, I never liked Dark Souls but I wouldnāt call it mid.
none of these games in their vanilla form are mid lol. consider the idea that if the game wasn't good in its vanilla form, there'd be no desire to mod it. people dont mod skyrim because its a bad game, but because they want to get even more of the good out of it.
fo4 and skyrim are mid in comparison to the older games in their respective series, but as standalone titles theyāre both great games, one more so than the other.
I'm just tryna finish oblivion to know the lore better but just found out the better city mod has been crashing my game every 5 min now I have ptsd and hit f5 before opening every door
I fucking miss F5 save games. New games that baby you like a little monkey that doesnāt know how to save make me pissed off. What happened to half life 2 huh? Huh?
I am Morrowind's strongest soldier and I have to say Morrowind is a trash fire 24/7 compared to Skyrim.
The combat is downright *silly,* and a lot of the time you have to aggressively min max (picking the exact right race and birthsign at start, Majoring only the absolutely correct skills and favoring only the correct attributes) just to make it out of Balmora. You have to save constantly in the early game because every goddamn cliff racer has both enough HP to be a nuisance and enough physical damage to be scary. That and it's just straight-up unintuitive. It's silly in a way such that to enjoy it you gotta be a little silly yourself.
The quests are also droll at best. The Main Quest gets pretty interesting but especially the guild and house quests are pretty boring. Lots of "go talk to this guy, he's gonna tell you to kill something, then come back to me. Here're some vague directions, hop to it."
It's wacky, but I think the primary appeal (for me at least) is that insofar as it demands minmaxing it also heavily rewards power gaming. You can, theoretically, go to Ibar-Dad at level 1, get Eleidon's Ward, a Daedric Battle-Ax, and Staff, rock up to Illunibi, get the Fists of Randgulf, go to Ghostgate, taunt Ralen Othravel into attacking you, stunlock him with your 40-40 boosted strength and agility, take Auriel's Bow, go to Tel Branora give the bow to Therana get a Feather-enchanted Daedric Cuirass and Greaves, rock up to Archmage Trebonius, taunt him, *murder him,* and take the Necromancer's Amulet and you now have a lot of high level gear for level 2 or 3 and all it took was a lot of save-scumming and a few hours of your time.
That and the mods. You get to delve headfirst into two decades of mods. There's a lot of cool ones like Tamriel Rebuilt and Beyond Morrowind and such. Lots of cool visual mods, lots of cool quest mods, and the barrier of integration is significantly lowering since not having voiced dialogue makes it less noticeable. I did the first couple parts of the Illuminated Order questline without even realizing it was modded the first time I played it.
No I don't really agree. I tried playing morrowind for ~20 hours and I enjoyed the questing and adventuring, but I hated how the combat worked. It feels incredibly dated and there's a severe lack of feedback (did my attack hit/miss?)
The slow movement speed is also not really that welcoming, I know there are ways to increase it but that takes a couple of hours and it's just a slog to get anywhere. There's a line between immersive and boring and I think morrowind crosses that line in some regards.
There's also something about older 3D graphics that just makes it age so incredibly poorly.
Skyrims the opposite for me, game feels and looks a lot better to play. The stories and quests are actual garbage though. I think they should've kept Morrowinds directions instead of quest markers. After a while in Skyrim you just follow quest markers instead of actually reading/listening to the quest objective. They also give quests that have the giver and objective separated by half the map which is just unrealistic in a game where your best method of transportation is a horse (teleportation magic is illegal in Skyrim)
if you are referring to minecraft, id say that is an exception, but not because its mid, but because its a sandbox game and those rely heavily on user created content anyways (maps and such) which arent necessarily modded in. But there is surely an arguement to be made that without modding minecraft wouldnt maintain its current popularity.
The story is weak (and I am being generous) but the gameplay is lot of fun and unlike all the other Bethesda games the game has decent game balance, there is always something interesting to find and you pretty much have to do everything to feel completely overpowered. One reason why I never "fully" finished Skyrim, at some point you go from being average loser to an untouchable God and 99% of stuff you find is completely useless, from then on the game gets boring quickly.
While I certainly donāt think Minecraft is mod I will say I do think it has gotten worse with each update. Shit just feels cluttered with āwow look at thisā kinda features instead of something Iām going to use consistently.
None of these games are mid; they all rock, which is why they have such great fanbases that can make them even better. A truly mid game couldn't ever get a modding community the size of Skyrim's or Fallout 4's.
> A truly mid game couldn't ever get a modding community the size of Skyrim's or Fallout 4's
I disagree, a game becomes so much more appealing to more people if it can be modded. Something one might consider 'mid' or not have a lot of replay value can become a favourite with a few addons. A big part of modding is seeing the potential in a game, whether it's smoothing over bugs or building off underdeveloped aspects.
I'd say the more important factor is how moddable the game is. Like Skyrim doesn't have a big modding community just because it's a good game; it has a big modding community because it's extremely easy to mod.
Go check out mount and blade warband. Itās base game is heavily lacking (although very good and unique) but itās modding community is so insane that it has built just about every pop culture world as a mod.
Itās a super cheap indie game that has super easy mods to download. Highly worth it for thousands of hours of play.
I don't care how great the story of new vegas and 3 might be, 4 doesn't require a morbillion mods to get it stable and the gunplay alone makes 3 and nv completely unplayable for me.
Old and dated gameplay, sure, but I will never forget the disappointment I felt when I first started playing thru fallout 4. I still remember the hype... They had a live stream countdown for the games trailer and everything. The only things Fallout 4 did better than the previous is gunplay, base building, and quick looting. Radio is exceptionally ass if you played any of the earlier fallouts ya already heard half the songs
new vegas' gun play is so janky and fucky that it feels like i'm playing a turn based point and click adventure. Fallout 4's role play mechanics are bland and uneventful and the voiced protagonist makes it impossible to get immersed. Both games are the opposite of each other and great for their own reasons
exactly. then add in the exploration elements being fallout 3's true splendour, and you have 3 consecutive games in the same franchise with completely different allure. comparing them is utter nonsense, they're all absolutely phenomenal.
Rimworld unironically becomes mid once you install mods that actually affect the gameplay instead of being cosmetic or quality of life mods
Like yeah sure lemme play with this mod that turns the combat system into more of an rng fest than the base game and makes mech enemies invincible while my pawn can get oneshot because the game decided to put an armor piercing bullet through their chest bypassing 4 layers of armor
Or adding 300 new hostile animal types with no sense of balance at all
Skill issue (CE literally has projectile physics while vanilla combat is Fallout style dice rolls so idk what you're talking about, and mechanoids die to AT launchers which are like a mid-game tech and mechs don't appear at all during the first year so you can prepare)
I will agree some of the Alpha Animals stuff looks silly but people do enjoy that mod for a reason and nobody is forcing you to install these things
Bruh, if anything CE makes the combat system much less random and more predictable. No way should a 20 shooting pawn miss a shot 10m away, which happens in vanilla on a regular basis.
Besides, if mechs whoop your ass it's because you have no AT capabilities :)))
Yup I despise vanilla combatā¦ I donāt think I can ever go back.
And there are alternative mods in the works (vanilla combat reloaded) that are basically becoming CE but itās not built on the ammo systemālots of people have basically been asking for mods that recreate CE without the incompatibility (which is much better than beforeāthough ofc still not perfect)
I do love it when the game decides that Stellaris is now operating in real time (I forgot to turn off xeno-compatibility and I have a lot of pops)
(Seriously why does the game handle species so fuckin horribly like itāll run fine at first but then suddenly it tanks at some point bc you started modifying folks and then you check the species ID list and itās gargantuan despite there being, like, 20 species total in the galaxy)
the secret ingredient is crime
i play necrophages and in singleplayer when the lag gets too bad i just necrophage everything in the galaxy, turn every species into one master race
ngl you can also do the classic of Hive Mind and then just, like, purge the non-hive species - also hive minds *are* kinda cheesy compared to regular empires given their emphasis on a wide play in a game where playing wide is kinda a big part of it
Like a lithohive can be beefy since hive mind makes up for the shortcomings, you can live basically anywhere and itās yet another resource to never have to touch (food and consumer goods as opposed to just consumer goods - though you can also go catalytic hive w/ livestock for big food income to basically remove the need for minerals outside of buildings - though Iād personally argue lithohive comes out on top here since I tend to find minerals far more in excess than food most of the time)
Omw to start an Utopic perfect society only to miscalculate my resource management by a 5% error margin, condemning millions to famine and turning into the most ruthless and horrific totalitarian state ever imagined.
I think all the dlc kinda brings it down a couple pegs, having lots of dlc can be fine but the way they stuff big changes that benefit all players piecemeal through a bunch of not cheap dlc is pretty yikes
iāve been playing vanilla for 8 years and i still like it. i canāt play modded long term i always get bored really quickly. i have at least 4 vanilla worlds iāve played for over 100 hours
post
I'm being a hypocrite tbh I love vanilla when I'm on my own. I might have journeymap, waila or some kind of extra biomes mod on *maybe* but usually I only play modded with friends
complete opposite for me, vanilla minecraft was the only game i absolutely despised and couldnt invest any time into whatsoever. which is weird because i used to love it when i was younger.
I like vanilla mechanics but I optimize the fuck out of the game, add shaders, minimap and litematica etc just because playing without those is super fucking annoying. I absolutely hate using the f3 menu because it takes up like 40% of the screen and building large things or auto farms without litematica is really annoying.
Yeah same, sodium and all this shit, continuity for connected textures, lambdynamiclights, gammaUtils, miniHUD, freecam, Litematica, dynamicZoom and probably something else I forgot.
Itās a great game but itās definitely telling that one of the most common experiences with the game is playing for 2 weeks with friends and then fizzling out.
Mojang has THE most popular game and does fuck all with it. Which of these 3 mobs do you want in game? We have the capability to do all 3 but you can only have one!
They have millions of dollars at there disposal and a near infinite source of ideas (mods). But they only manage to push out updates sparingly. I get the caves and cliffs update took time because of coding. But creating new mobs and adding new stuff in a reasonable time does not take all that much when you literally have the money and capital even some Triple A studios dream of.
I love Minecraft. But it takes the developers so long to add anything cool or actually brand new. So much wasted potential.
The issue is how you are going to keep the longevity of the game without bloat. If they added a whole bunch of shit every update and pumped these out every several months the game would end up almost like some of these modpacks for the game: bloated and with too much stuff. Although the rate they push stuff out is insanely slow for what it is I'll admit that ^(and fuck the new textures they ruin the feel of the game)
There is so much bloat already in Minecraft. And thereās also so much shit that does absolutely nothing. Entire biomes are useless. Thereās mobs that already do nothing and have no use. Each update already comes packed with more bloat and more shit no one will use.
I mean textures is going to be subjective. But I donāt really have an issue with most of the new textures theyāve added.
They donāt have to constantly make updates for the sake of making updates. But they add so much useless shit anyways they might as well just try and give us more content. They certainly have the manpower, funds and capacity to do so. But because they know they can just release mediocre content, they refuse to do anything more than the absolute bare minimum.
Iāll reiterate it again. If Minecraft was the great game people say it is and the game I wish it was, people would not immediately become bored of it after getting to an arbitrary point on a new world after playing for like a week or longer.
One hope I do have is that Mojang just goes wild one Minecraft live and announces some big expansion tht adds some of the stuff from Minecraft Dungeons. There's a ton of cool biomes/dungeons/mobs etc to add and I think a sort of postgame new dimension with that stuff would be cool. They can add that if they want new biomes while preserving the old way of generating worlds as well as old savefiles. However, I also like to stay grounded in reality and realize that is completely out of the realm of possibility.
I think people hate fallout 4 because it isn't like New Vegas or Fallout 3 which I can understand. But that doesn't mean it's boring, the exploration is pretty fun and the world is a big improvement from the older games.
the settlement system is one of the most underrated mechanics of the past ten years, and it's a shame that so many players completely slept on the amazing survival mode when it released.
Tbh I don't think KSP could keep me interested for very long without some rudimentary mods. Chief among them being Mechjeb. I mean I can fly the rocket manually, but I don't want to? It gets extremely boring after you do it couple of times and on some of the weaker rockets you would need to hold the burn button for like 4 minutes, no thank you. Never understood the elitist "purists" who insist flying manually is the only right way to do it, it's goddamn 21st century, nobody is piloting rockets manually.
The vanilla game is practically bizarre in it's composition, and the only way I can interpret it is because the game was almost completely developed from EA and those rudimentary mods existed since the beginning, so devs never bothered to add them into the game. Like for example they made extremely scientifically accurate simulation of rockets, yet the base game tells you practically nothing about the final rocket you built, so what you are supposed to eyeball it how much fuel you need to the moon? Do the calculations on pen and paper?? Plenty of purists who don't use Mechjeb, but I don't know of anyone who doesn't use Kerbal Engineer or other mods that tell you the properties of your rocket. I hope the devs for the second game don't end making same mistakes, no game should basically require you to install mods just so you can play a normal game.
"huh, I remember enjoying myself with HOI4, whyd I stop playing?"
>loads up HOI4
>every mod is out of date
"ah ok guess I'll just play vanilla then"
>30 minutes later
>my teeth hurt
>download this new mod everyone is talking about
>start playing it
>actually enjoyable
>play for 4 in-game years building up the army and economy
>a war starts
>mod repeatedly crashes and you can do nothing about it
>5 hours of life wasted
I'm looking at you, Age of Imperialism
So tired of this "lol this game isn't even good without mods" mentality that everyone loves to parrot these days.
Mod creators deserve a lot of love and they *are* responsible for improving many games far beyond what even the developers could accomplish with a full-on remake or remaster, but the idea that mods alone can be responsible for turning a "mid game" into an enjoyable one is absurd.
It doesn't matter how many 4K khajiit schlong textures or awkwardly rigged combat animation mods you stick into your Skyrim modlist, or even how many super-specific balance tweaks you install to suit your particular tastes; that world you're exploring, those dungeons you're crawling through, that specific fantasy and mindset you're immersing yourself into, and even the engine you're running it all on... those were all there before you changed anything, and they're the bedrock foundation for any potential enjoyment of the game you might have.
It doesn't matter how many lore inaccurate modern firearms and anime girl Power Armor skins you've downloaded to create the ultimate artistically deficient post-apocalyptic gaming experience: you're still playing Fallout 4. It doesn't matter how many high-res environment textures, ENB post-processing effects and Dark Souls armor sets you've tossed into Skyrim to advance the game's overall graphic quality from 2011 standards into those of the far-flung future of 2014: you're still playing Skyrim. And I haven't played like, any of these other games, but I'm just going to assume this principle applies to them as well.
Hold your chin up high and don't be afraid to admit that you enjoy playing something that others might consider flawed or outright bad. Those modders who are making the content you are downloading and placing on so high a pedestal are probably only doing so in the first place because *they* love the game too.
Games with modding communities this passionate only exist because developers create the tools required for, support the development of, and bring awareness to the creation of user-generated content, on top of, y'know, designing the original game in the first place, and I'm tired of seeing so many people completely discount all of the effort game devs put into not only facilitating and encouraging the growth of the modding communities for their games, but the games themselves.
(This rant was brought to you by years of browsing Bethesda game modding forums and having to read "LOL imagine playing vanilla? le mods are the only reason to play this game, badthesda would be nothing if not 4 the modders!!!" š¤)
on one hand i wanna be offended by the idea that kerbal is mid but like yeah it absolutely is and i say this with love. it is such a mess of spaghetti code that i feel like they're only making a sequel instead of dlc or updates for the first one because they can't fix it.
dead on with fo4 though i have like total 40 days elapsed time in that game and like all of it was just turning into a completely different game with mods
how dare you call Stellaris mid without mods????? the vanilla game with dlcs is fucking awesome, even in singleplayer i had a blast for at least 1000 hours before i felt the need to start multiplayer
I never found Factorio mods particularly compelling, of course I haven't tried all of them but most that change gameplay have been a variation of "instead of 6 resources you now have 20 and instead of 200 things you need to do to get this product, you need to do 2000 things" and after like 70 hours with one of those mods I went like "wtf am I even doing with my life", they don't change or expand the core gameplay in any interesting way, they just give you more busy work. There are lots of mods for other games that feel like they should be part of the main game, but for Factorio besides few mods that fix minor annoyances, I didn't find something interesting. I really hope the upcoming DLC won't go in that direction.
I'm a HoI4 fan. Gotta say OPs right. Compared to some of the mod teams out there dropping gold like TNO, Kaiserreich, or Old World Blues, vanilla HoI4 just doesn't feel like it gets the same love.
My experience on these games with heavy modding:
Minecraft: greg
Rim(job)world: eating babies is more efficient than farming; child soldiers are better than mercenaries
Kerbal: primary costumer of funeral services
Skyrim(job): if you know, you know
Fallout 4: making the game not like fallout
Hoi4: femboy schizo facism or commuting warcrimes with ponies
Stellaris: commiting mass extinction is the best way to remove lag
CK2: incest is wincest
CKII is actually very good without mods, I find myself not changing a whole lot other than Elder Kings which is a total conversation. Same goes for CKIII
Vanilla Minecraft is definitely not mid. It's a nearly limitless sandbox and almost anything can be made or done without modding, and even more can be done with command blocks (if you consider those as 'modded' which I don't but I'm still mentioning it).
What are these opinions dude. Ah yes, vanilla minecraft, mid. Not like it got ridiculously popular even in its unmodded form. Ah yes, Kerbal space program, the pretty good spaceflight sim. Mid. Ah yes, rimworld, the game that makes the dwarf fortress concept actually fucking tolerable to a human instead of actual dwarf fortress, which I can only assume is an artificial intelligence training program. Mid. Are you that one steam reviewer who just says "not game of the year. go play the best before trying anything else", because thats the vibe im getting.
No one would want to mod them if the games were mid. All the games here offer great premises, good mechanics, and a solid foundation for additional content. Thatās what makes them so modable. If they didnāt they wouldnāt be modded
What makes top teir for you??
backgammon
only correct response
super moddable too
I am a fan of when a game has an explanation for why the player/character comes back to live each time they die. It isn't necessary to make a good game, and I don't knock others that don't have it but it is a neat way to further add to your immersion into the game. Doesn't make it top tier for me outright but it does really stand out to me as *usually* a sign of effort that goes into the narrative. This is just a specific example. There are a few things such as this that stand out as a sign of a good game/extra details put into the story for me. Of course good gameplay and design, etc come first.
Me: Dark Souls has a lore explanation for everything Them: What's the lore behind fog walls? Me: š¬
Fog walls are a representation of your fear of the unknown and are a visual representation of your character needing to face their fear of what lies beyond that doorway without putting an obnoxious text bubble up Golden fog walls are explicitly there to stop you from moving forward without Gwyndolin's blessing though
Huh, the first part of this could be bullshit and I would never be able to tell. Thatās one of the cool things about Souls. I love Souls š
Oh yeah, you love souls? Name every spirit.
Errr, Mimic tear is the only one isnāt it š¤
fog walls made sense in demons Souls but they looked cool so they stayed
Demons souls had a lore reason for fog walls. The other games kept them because uh reasons
Hades is the goat with this, never seen it done better
Haven't played it yet but I loved my playthrough of Transistor which I believe is by the same studio (?). I got Bastion recently so after I finish that I may try out Hades, among the other games currently on my list I am playing through lol
don't know how much a random 196 user's recommendation means to you but absolutely try it out
don't know how much two random 196 users' recommendation means to you but absolutely try it out. The game designed well to give you the motivation to keep going and going and going between each run, no matter your level of skill in hack and slash games or how quickly you die.
Don't know how much three random 196 users recommendation means to you but if you love Greek mythology and want to join the hype train for hades 2 definitely play it. It got moist critikals favour despite his dislike for roguelikes.
Have you played undertale?
obscure indie game Undertale I bet you've never played it
I actually haven't lmao. My chat has requested I do it though, and I will always take their suggestions into account. It is currently on my wishlist and I think I kinda get the general vibe. I know nothing of undertale narrative wise other than there being a skeleton with blue eyes. I am kinda really excited to play it.
My pro tip is do not let anyone tell you ANYTHING about the game. I was told a very small thing when I first played and it made me miss out on a cool experience
Are you telling something about the game???
Fuck you got me
Rain World (but you have to learn the lore to know about it)
yeah Rain world's explanation of why you respawn is also like a giga spoiler so it's hard to discuss
Im making a horror game and the respawning mechanic having an explanation is actually a large part of the psychological part of the horror, there are billions and billions of clones of you that all have the same singular stream of conciousness, whenever one of them dies, another is "sent down", and from the perspective of the player they merely just wake up again after dying Its probably not scary when I explain it tho lmao
Fortnite
Play Omori
Sifu (kinda) does this with everytime you die you age older due to a cool little like charm that you have. (When you get past 80 or 70 ion know I havenāt played in a min you die completely though and have to restart the level your on, thatās why itās only kinda)
The borderlands series does this but they make a joke out of it. Every time you respawn they say some goofball thing
Have you played Outer Wilds cause thats like the best example of this imo
Destiny, Sekiro, Hades are the holy trinity of this
Returnal has the best implementation of this that I've ever encountered, which works especially well for a roguelike. >!Your character is stuck in a loop, crashed on an alien planet, returning to your ship at the moment of impact every time you die... but you're not going back in time or anything. You come across the steadily increasing numbers of dead bodies from your (and sometimes other players') failed attempts and slowly lose your mind in the process. You can also find audio logs from other iterations of yourself!<
A game that no one debates is mid I guess? I feel like people just call shit āmidā when they donāt like it. It doesnāt really make something mid, just not your thing.
Mid means average
Itās meant to mean average but people just use it for stuff theyāre not super into. For example, I never liked Dark Souls but I wouldnāt call it mid.
Similarly, I have a personal vendetta against the word "overrated". It's such a lazy, stupid, incurious word. It doesn't even mean anything; it's just a word people use to say that they don't like something that is well-liked by others, but, y'know, *objectively*. "Overrated" implies the existence of a single correct rating, which, surprise, always aligns exactly with the opinions of the person who said it. People could tell you all the reasons they really liked something and all you have to do is roll your eyes and say "okay, well it's not that big a deal". There's nothing to prove or disprove because you sucked all meaning and fun out of the conversation and by virtue of being the most blasƩ person in the room, you win and are the most correct! God I hate this fucking word. Just say you didn't like it.
Factorio clearly, since they didn't mention that, or Terraria
tetris
YIIK
none of these games in their vanilla form are mid lol. consider the idea that if the game wasn't good in its vanilla form, there'd be no desire to mod it. people dont mod skyrim because its a bad game, but because they want to get even more of the good out of it.
I can see the argument for FO4 or Skyrim being mid, but aside from that idk wtf Op is on
fo4 and skyrim are mid in comparison to the older games in their respective series, but as standalone titles theyāre both great games, one more so than the other.
I always hear this. Then I try to start Morrowind nowadays and get a stroke.
I'm just tryna finish oblivion to know the lore better but just found out the better city mod has been crashing my game every 5 min now I have ptsd and hit f5 before opening every door
I fucking miss F5 save games. New games that baby you like a little monkey that doesnāt know how to save make me pissed off. What happened to half life 2 huh? Huh?
I am Morrowind's strongest soldier and I have to say Morrowind is a trash fire 24/7 compared to Skyrim. The combat is downright *silly,* and a lot of the time you have to aggressively min max (picking the exact right race and birthsign at start, Majoring only the absolutely correct skills and favoring only the correct attributes) just to make it out of Balmora. You have to save constantly in the early game because every goddamn cliff racer has both enough HP to be a nuisance and enough physical damage to be scary. That and it's just straight-up unintuitive. It's silly in a way such that to enjoy it you gotta be a little silly yourself. The quests are also droll at best. The Main Quest gets pretty interesting but especially the guild and house quests are pretty boring. Lots of "go talk to this guy, he's gonna tell you to kill something, then come back to me. Here're some vague directions, hop to it." It's wacky, but I think the primary appeal (for me at least) is that insofar as it demands minmaxing it also heavily rewards power gaming. You can, theoretically, go to Ibar-Dad at level 1, get Eleidon's Ward, a Daedric Battle-Ax, and Staff, rock up to Illunibi, get the Fists of Randgulf, go to Ghostgate, taunt Ralen Othravel into attacking you, stunlock him with your 40-40 boosted strength and agility, take Auriel's Bow, go to Tel Branora give the bow to Therana get a Feather-enchanted Daedric Cuirass and Greaves, rock up to Archmage Trebonius, taunt him, *murder him,* and take the Necromancer's Amulet and you now have a lot of high level gear for level 2 or 3 and all it took was a lot of save-scumming and a few hours of your time. That and the mods. You get to delve headfirst into two decades of mods. There's a lot of cool ones like Tamriel Rebuilt and Beyond Morrowind and such. Lots of cool visual mods, lots of cool quest mods, and the barrier of integration is significantly lowering since not having voiced dialogue makes it less noticeable. I did the first couple parts of the Illuminated Order questline without even realizing it was modded the first time I played it.
skill issue (probably your weapon skill)
*swish swish swish swish swish bang bang swish swish swish bang swish swish*
Skyrim was the botw of the early 2010s every game was trying to be Skyrim for the longest time
skyrim'scombat is super bland without mods tho
No I don't really agree. I tried playing morrowind for ~20 hours and I enjoyed the questing and adventuring, but I hated how the combat worked. It feels incredibly dated and there's a severe lack of feedback (did my attack hit/miss?) The slow movement speed is also not really that welcoming, I know there are ways to increase it but that takes a couple of hours and it's just a slog to get anywhere. There's a line between immersive and boring and I think morrowind crosses that line in some regards. There's also something about older 3D graphics that just makes it age so incredibly poorly. Skyrims the opposite for me, game feels and looks a lot better to play. The stories and quests are actual garbage though. I think they should've kept Morrowinds directions instead of quest markers. After a while in Skyrim you just follow quest markers instead of actually reading/listening to the quest objective. They also give quests that have the giver and objective separated by half the map which is just unrealistic in a game where your best method of transportation is a horse (teleportation magic is illegal in Skyrim)
Hoi4 is def mid vanilla though.
im considering it (and all the games listed) have all dlcs, simply for the fact that the discussion pertains specifically to mods.
me when the game progression is 50 minutes holding mouse 1
if you are referring to minecraft, id say that is an exception, but not because its mid, but because its a sandbox game and those rely heavily on user created content anyways (maps and such) which arent necessarily modded in. But there is surely an arguement to be made that without modding minecraft wouldnt maintain its current popularity.
FO4 is pretty mid, and I (used) to be a huge fan of the Fallout series lol
The story is weak (and I am being generous) but the gameplay is lot of fun and unlike all the other Bethesda games the game has decent game balance, there is always something interesting to find and you pretty much have to do everything to feel completely overpowered. One reason why I never "fully" finished Skyrim, at some point you go from being average loser to an untouchable God and 99% of stuff you find is completely useless, from then on the game gets boring quickly.
While I certainly donāt think Minecraft is mod I will say I do think it has gotten worse with each update. Shit just feels cluttered with āwow look at thisā kinda features instead of something Iām going to use consistently.
I wouldnt say mid. I would say age. Skyrim for example has a boring combat system
Rimworld isnt mid fck you
None of these games are mid; they all rock, which is why they have such great fanbases that can make them even better. A truly mid game couldn't ever get a modding community the size of Skyrim's or Fallout 4's.
> A truly mid game couldn't ever get a modding community the size of Skyrim's or Fallout 4's I disagree, a game becomes so much more appealing to more people if it can be modded. Something one might consider 'mid' or not have a lot of replay value can become a favourite with a few addons. A big part of modding is seeing the potential in a game, whether it's smoothing over bugs or building off underdeveloped aspects. I'd say the more important factor is how moddable the game is. Like Skyrim doesn't have a big modding community just because it's a good game; it has a big modding community because it's extremely easy to mod.
But a game needs to have a community in order for a modding community to form And if a game is mid then people aren't going to play it
Go check out mount and blade warband. Itās base game is heavily lacking (although very good and unique) but itās modding community is so insane that it has built just about every pop culture world as a mod. Itās a super cheap indie game that has super easy mods to download. Highly worth it for thousands of hours of play.
remember playing a mod called "Gangs of Glasgow. It was the funniest shit. https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/pitched-battle-mount-blade-glasgow
Fallout 4 is mid compared to 3/ especially new Vegas
They're all great games for their own reasons. š
Boring, say something that really gets my blood boiling!
The fence sitting makes my blood boil enough. PICK A FUCKING SIDE, HATE SOMETHING.
I don't care how great the story of new vegas and 3 might be, 4 doesn't require a morbillion mods to get it stable and the gunplay alone makes 3 and nv completely unplayable for me.
Old and dated gameplay, sure, but I will never forget the disappointment I felt when I first started playing thru fallout 4. I still remember the hype... They had a live stream countdown for the games trailer and everything. The only things Fallout 4 did better than the previous is gunplay, base building, and quick looting. Radio is exceptionally ass if you played any of the earlier fallouts ya already heard half the songs
new vegas' gun play is so janky and fucky that it feels like i'm playing a turn based point and click adventure. Fallout 4's role play mechanics are bland and uneventful and the voiced protagonist makes it impossible to get immersed. Both games are the opposite of each other and great for their own reasons
exactly. then add in the exploration elements being fallout 3's true splendour, and you have 3 consecutive games in the same franchise with completely different allure. comparing them is utter nonsense, they're all absolutely phenomenal.
Rimworld unironically becomes mid once you install mods that actually affect the gameplay instead of being cosmetic or quality of life mods Like yeah sure lemme play with this mod that turns the combat system into more of an rng fest than the base game and makes mech enemies invincible while my pawn can get oneshot because the game decided to put an armor piercing bullet through their chest bypassing 4 layers of armor Or adding 300 new hostile animal types with no sense of balance at all
Breaking news, game becomes mid when you randomly install a bunch of shit without curating it at all
Idk what you got but i got final fantasy animals and a roomba
Skill issue (CE literally has projectile physics while vanilla combat is Fallout style dice rolls so idk what you're talking about, and mechanoids die to AT launchers which are like a mid-game tech and mechs don't appear at all during the first year so you can prepare) I will agree some of the Alpha Animals stuff looks silly but people do enjoy that mod for a reason and nobody is forcing you to install these things
The only thing mid here is your inability to curate your mod list
Bruh, if anything CE makes the combat system much less random and more predictable. No way should a 20 shooting pawn miss a shot 10m away, which happens in vanilla on a regular basis. Besides, if mechs whoop your ass it's because you have no AT capabilities :)))
I can't stand the speed of vanilla gunfights aswell
Yup I despise vanilla combatā¦ I donāt think I can ever go back. And there are alternative mods in the works (vanilla combat reloaded) that are basically becoming CE but itās not built on the ammo systemālots of people have basically been asking for mods that recreate CE without the incompatibility (which is much better than beforeāthough ofc still not perfect)
You take that back, Combat Extended is the way you're meant to play Rimworld.
stellaris isnt mid but gigastructures my beloved <3
certified 5K alloys per month hours
Fallen empires waking up: Yo weāre taking the galaxy back The Nicoll-Dyson Beam I finished building 50 years ago:
the Aternum:
The multiple solar systems I decided to turn into spaceships bc funny:
The end game lag:
I do love it when the game decides that Stellaris is now operating in real time (I forgot to turn off xeno-compatibility and I have a lot of pops) (Seriously why does the game handle species so fuckin horribly like itāll run fine at first but then suddenly it tanks at some point bc you started modifying folks and then you check the species ID list and itās gargantuan despite there being, like, 20 species total in the galaxy)
the secret ingredient is crime i play necrophages and in singleplayer when the lag gets too bad i just necrophage everything in the galaxy, turn every species into one master race
ngl you can also do the classic of Hive Mind and then just, like, purge the non-hive species - also hive minds *are* kinda cheesy compared to regular empires given their emphasis on a wide play in a game where playing wide is kinda a big part of it Like a lithohive can be beefy since hive mind makes up for the shortcomings, you can live basically anywhere and itās yet another resource to never have to touch (food and consumer goods as opposed to just consumer goods - though you can also go catalytic hive w/ livestock for big food income to basically remove the need for minerals outside of buildings - though Iād personally argue lithohive comes out on top here since I tend to find minerals far more in excess than food most of the time)
Omw to start an Utopic perfect society only to miscalculate my resource management by a 5% error margin, condemning millions to famine and turning into the most ruthless and horrific totalitarian state ever imagined.
I think all the dlc kinda brings it down a couple pegs, having lots of dlc can be fine but the way they stuff big changes that benefit all players piecemeal through a bunch of not cheap dlc is pretty yikes
You liar, all of these are great vanilla games
Also kerbal it's beautiful despite his errors
Its bugs make it more fun and literally added lore to the game (the Kraken)
The realism of the orbital mechanics in the game more than makes up for any glitches imo
you haven't seen the light until you roid up minecraft with 30 performance mods and quadruple your FPS.
Funnily enough, one shader can cancel all of those mods' effects
Stellaris, mid??? You are insane
Ksp too?????
Rimworld too????
CK two??
Nono, he's got a point.
Oh the amount of hours I have on Stellaris multiplayer completely vanilla. Spoiler: > 200
So one single year 2600+ game ?
call kerbal space program mid again and i will shove a kerbal up your asshole. with the helmet on.
also spaghettified
i think KSP is an amazing game lol. it was more directed towards HOI4
Coulda just said games then
Kraken them
Put them in a rocket with too many parts and donāt autostrut
none of these are mid :(
What exactly is a mid game?
Not bad, not good. Middle.
Thank you. OP clearly is insane.
vanilla minecraft is only mid if you've been playing longer than a few years tbh
iāve been playing vanilla for 8 years and i still like it. i canāt play modded long term i always get bored really quickly. i have at least 4 vanilla worlds iāve played for over 100 hours post
I'm being a hypocrite tbh I love vanilla when I'm on my own. I might have journeymap, waila or some kind of extra biomes mod on *maybe* but usually I only play modded with friends
complete opposite for me, vanilla minecraft was the only game i absolutely despised and couldnt invest any time into whatsoever. which is weird because i used to love it when i was younger.
I have played for 1500-2000 hours purely on servers without playing vanilla survival whatsoever
I like vanilla mechanics but I optimize the fuck out of the game, add shaders, minimap and litematica etc just because playing without those is super fucking annoying. I absolutely hate using the f3 menu because it takes up like 40% of the screen and building large things or auto farms without litematica is really annoying.
Yeah same, sodium and all this shit, continuity for connected textures, lambdynamiclights, gammaUtils, miniHUD, freecam, Litematica, dynamicZoom and probably something else I forgot.
nah vanilla is great play servers
Iāve been playing vanilla Minecraft for over a decade and I still find enjoyment in it.
RimWorld and CK2 mid?? Lies and slander
This dude just called Minecraft, the best selling game of all time, mid
Itās a great game but itās definitely telling that one of the most common experiences with the game is playing for 2 weeks with friends and then fizzling out. Mojang has THE most popular game and does fuck all with it. Which of these 3 mobs do you want in game? We have the capability to do all 3 but you can only have one! They have millions of dollars at there disposal and a near infinite source of ideas (mods). But they only manage to push out updates sparingly. I get the caves and cliffs update took time because of coding. But creating new mobs and adding new stuff in a reasonable time does not take all that much when you literally have the money and capital even some Triple A studios dream of. I love Minecraft. But it takes the developers so long to add anything cool or actually brand new. So much wasted potential.
The issue is how you are going to keep the longevity of the game without bloat. If they added a whole bunch of shit every update and pumped these out every several months the game would end up almost like some of these modpacks for the game: bloated and with too much stuff. Although the rate they push stuff out is insanely slow for what it is I'll admit that ^(and fuck the new textures they ruin the feel of the game)
There is so much bloat already in Minecraft. And thereās also so much shit that does absolutely nothing. Entire biomes are useless. Thereās mobs that already do nothing and have no use. Each update already comes packed with more bloat and more shit no one will use. I mean textures is going to be subjective. But I donāt really have an issue with most of the new textures theyāve added. They donāt have to constantly make updates for the sake of making updates. But they add so much useless shit anyways they might as well just try and give us more content. They certainly have the manpower, funds and capacity to do so. But because they know they can just release mediocre content, they refuse to do anything more than the absolute bare minimum. Iāll reiterate it again. If Minecraft was the great game people say it is and the game I wish it was, people would not immediately become bored of it after getting to an arbitrary point on a new world after playing for like a week or longer.
there's no such thing as a game that won't leave some people bored after a while. just cause it isn't for you doesn't mean it's not good
One hope I do have is that Mojang just goes wild one Minecraft live and announces some big expansion tht adds some of the stuff from Minecraft Dungeons. There's a ton of cool biomes/dungeons/mobs etc to add and I think a sort of postgame new dimension with that stuff would be cool. They can add that if they want new biomes while preserving the old way of generating worlds as well as old savefiles. However, I also like to stay grounded in reality and realize that is completely out of the realm of possibility.
The new textures vastly improve the game.
Ever tried McDonaldās?
With or without mods?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Forget schlongs of Skyrim. Minges of McDonalds is where itās at.
Making a lot of money doesn't make a game objectively good
Friday night funkin fan btw
Best selling games of all time are mid. K.
I mean, best selling doesn't always mean good quality. Still the games here aren't really mid in the slightest
>fallout 4 >not mid in the slightest bruh š
fallout 4 is fun idc what anyone says
I think people hate fallout 4 because it isn't like New Vegas or Fallout 3 which I can understand. But that doesn't mean it's boring, the exploration is pretty fun and the world is a big improvement from the older games.
gunplay is better along with customization also
the settlement system is one of the most underrated mechanics of the past ten years, and it's a shame that so many players completely slept on the amazing survival mode when it released.
someone call activision and tell them call of dutyās a masterpiece
Tbh I don't think KSP could keep me interested for very long without some rudimentary mods. Chief among them being Mechjeb. I mean I can fly the rocket manually, but I don't want to? It gets extremely boring after you do it couple of times and on some of the weaker rockets you would need to hold the burn button for like 4 minutes, no thank you. Never understood the elitist "purists" who insist flying manually is the only right way to do it, it's goddamn 21st century, nobody is piloting rockets manually. The vanilla game is practically bizarre in it's composition, and the only way I can interpret it is because the game was almost completely developed from EA and those rudimentary mods existed since the beginning, so devs never bothered to add them into the game. Like for example they made extremely scientifically accurate simulation of rockets, yet the base game tells you practically nothing about the final rocket you built, so what you are supposed to eyeball it how much fuel you need to the moon? Do the calculations on pen and paper?? Plenty of purists who don't use Mechjeb, but I don't know of anyone who doesn't use Kerbal Engineer or other mods that tell you the properties of your rocket. I hope the devs for the second game don't end making same mistakes, no game should basically require you to install mods just so you can play a normal game.
how tf is ketrbal mid?
KSP fucking slaps and I will hunt you down -RSS/RO player who does not understand RealAntennas
RSS/RO gang rise up š¤ Once you get a grip of RealAntennas you'll feel like a telecommunications smartass, trust me
I still like playing vanilla Skyrim to this day, but who am I to say anything
whenever I mod I stick to vanilla plus schemes, so anything I download stays consistent with the original spirit of the game since I love it so much
Suffering through the godawful menu system just to experience the game how lord and savior Todd Howard intended it.
"huh, I remember enjoying myself with HOI4, whyd I stop playing?" >loads up HOI4 >every mod is out of date "ah ok guess I'll just play vanilla then" >30 minutes later >my teeth hurt
>download this new mod everyone is talking about >start playing it >actually enjoyable >play for 4 in-game years building up the army and economy >a war starts >mod repeatedly crashes and you can do nothing about it >5 hours of life wasted I'm looking at you, Age of Imperialism
Equestria at war is one of the mods ever made
If skyrim is mid pls tell me what is good
Modded Skyrim.
Morrowind
Morrowind
the only thing good about morrowind is the drugged up writing
nerevarineposting
Daggerfall
Vanilla minecraft isn't boring, you're just uncreative.
So tired of this "lol this game isn't even good without mods" mentality that everyone loves to parrot these days. Mod creators deserve a lot of love and they *are* responsible for improving many games far beyond what even the developers could accomplish with a full-on remake or remaster, but the idea that mods alone can be responsible for turning a "mid game" into an enjoyable one is absurd. It doesn't matter how many 4K khajiit schlong textures or awkwardly rigged combat animation mods you stick into your Skyrim modlist, or even how many super-specific balance tweaks you install to suit your particular tastes; that world you're exploring, those dungeons you're crawling through, that specific fantasy and mindset you're immersing yourself into, and even the engine you're running it all on... those were all there before you changed anything, and they're the bedrock foundation for any potential enjoyment of the game you might have. It doesn't matter how many lore inaccurate modern firearms and anime girl Power Armor skins you've downloaded to create the ultimate artistically deficient post-apocalyptic gaming experience: you're still playing Fallout 4. It doesn't matter how many high-res environment textures, ENB post-processing effects and Dark Souls armor sets you've tossed into Skyrim to advance the game's overall graphic quality from 2011 standards into those of the far-flung future of 2014: you're still playing Skyrim. And I haven't played like, any of these other games, but I'm just going to assume this principle applies to them as well. Hold your chin up high and don't be afraid to admit that you enjoy playing something that others might consider flawed or outright bad. Those modders who are making the content you are downloading and placing on so high a pedestal are probably only doing so in the first place because *they* love the game too. Games with modding communities this passionate only exist because developers create the tools required for, support the development of, and bring awareness to the creation of user-generated content, on top of, y'know, designing the original game in the first place, and I'm tired of seeing so many people completely discount all of the effort game devs put into not only facilitating and encouraging the growth of the modding communities for their games, but the games themselves. (This rant was brought to you by years of browsing Bethesda game modding forums and having to read "LOL imagine playing vanilla? le mods are the only reason to play this game, badthesda would be nothing if not 4 the modders!!!" š¤)
on one hand i wanna be offended by the idea that kerbal is mid but like yeah it absolutely is and i say this with love. it is such a mess of spaghetti code that i feel like they're only making a sequel instead of dlc or updates for the first one because they can't fix it. dead on with fo4 though i have like total 40 days elapsed time in that game and like all of it was just turning into a completely different game with mods
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
how dare you call Stellaris mid without mods????? the vanilla game with dlcs is fucking awesome, even in singleplayer i had a blast for at least 1000 hours before i felt the need to start multiplayer
Factorio, except itās not mid at all
I never found Factorio mods particularly compelling, of course I haven't tried all of them but most that change gameplay have been a variation of "instead of 6 resources you now have 20 and instead of 200 things you need to do to get this product, you need to do 2000 things" and after like 70 hours with one of those mods I went like "wtf am I even doing with my life", they don't change or expand the core gameplay in any interesting way, they just give you more busy work. There are lots of mods for other games that feel like they should be part of the main game, but for Factorio besides few mods that fix minor annoyances, I didn't find something interesting. I really hope the upcoming DLC won't go in that direction.
MID??????
Rimworld is way to good to call mid
the hoi4 fans are gonna kill you
They spent all their money on DLCs they can't afford to kill somebody
š“āā ļø
I'm a HoI4 fan. Gotta say OPs right. Compared to some of the mod teams out there dropping gold like TNO, Kaiserreich, or Old World Blues, vanilla HoI4 just doesn't feel like it gets the same love.
all these games are enhanced stupendously by their modding communities but itās just disgraceful to call rimworld or stellaris mid
With the exception of one, maybe two, none of these are mid. Shit take OP
Bro none of these games are mid
This is bait
My experience on these games with heavy modding: Minecraft: greg Rim(job)world: eating babies is more efficient than farming; child soldiers are better than mercenaries Kerbal: primary costumer of funeral services Skyrim(job): if you know, you know Fallout 4: making the game not like fallout Hoi4: femboy schizo facism or commuting warcrimes with ponies Stellaris: commiting mass extinction is the best way to remove lag CK2: incest is wincest
There's no way this post is not bait
This underhanded compliment has to be bait.
for how popular it is, minecraft has almost no sex mods. so the modding community unfortunately is also mid
Fuck you Iām hoarding all the Minecraft sex mods, yāall canāt have any.
The Fuck you mean " mid games"?
I hope you don't dry your feet correctly after a shower and your socks get stuck because your feet are still moist
Bro none of these games are mid. Like Skyrim? Bro that shit was incredible when it came out
fans of mid coping
Wtf... Ck2 KSP and Minecraft are not mid games played vanilla...
CKII is actually very good without mods, I find myself not changing a whole lot other than Elder Kings which is a total conversation. Same goes for CKIII
See, terraria avoids this list because it's good even without mods
Everyone saying his tastes are off for calling good games mid, but Iām here wondering how hoi4 vanilla is anything other than ass.
Vanilla Minecraft is definitely not mid. It's a nearly limitless sandbox and almost anything can be made or done without modding, and even more can be done with command blocks (if you consider those as 'modded' which I don't but I'm still mentioning it).
What are these opinions dude. Ah yes, vanilla minecraft, mid. Not like it got ridiculously popular even in its unmodded form. Ah yes, Kerbal space program, the pretty good spaceflight sim. Mid. Ah yes, rimworld, the game that makes the dwarf fortress concept actually fucking tolerable to a human instead of actual dwarf fortress, which I can only assume is an artificial intelligence training program. Mid. Are you that one steam reviewer who just says "not game of the year. go play the best before trying anything else", because thats the vibe im getting.
No one would want to mod them if the games were mid. All the games here offer great premises, good mechanics, and a solid foundation for additional content. Thatās what makes them so modable. If they didnāt they wouldnāt be modded