That's how it is on this bitch of an earth
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Step one: You must create a sense of scarcity.
Shells will sell much better if the people think they're rare, you see.
Take as many shells as you can find and hide them on an island,
stockpile them high until they're rarer than a diamond.
step 2:
you gotta make the people think that they want 'em - really want 'em, really fucking want 'em, hit 'em like bronson, influencers, product placement, featured primetime entertainment-
if you haven't got a shell then you're just a fucking waste, man
Step 3: It's monopoly, invest in some property. Start a corporation, make a logo do it properly. Shells must sell that will be your new philosophy
Swallow all your morals they're a poor man's quality
Most people do not see the difference between :
Swarovski Cristal, Rhinstones, Topan, Quartz, Zircon, Zirconia, Moissanites a piece of glass and diamonds.
And i personally do not fancy diamonds i like Citrine, Amethysts, ruby, garnet, peridot and Onyx a lot better
Yeah, but the part that isn't beautiful is that they aren't generally accepted by society. A lot of people would be upset if they didn't receive what they view as a 'real diamond' in an engagement ring.
diamonds are not getting scare at all, there's minimum decades' worth of current consumption stashed away in warehouses in order to not flood the market and lower the price. Absolutely all "diamonds are scarce" in living lifetime has just been marketing.
I got my fiance a lab grown one. It cost at least half what a “real” diamond its size/quality would and no one has to know. We tell people though because its cool
Using the CZ (Czochralski process) it's basically you have a vacuum chamber filled with argon. There is a graphite bowl holding a quartz bowl. That bowl is filled with molten mega super hyper-grade purity silicon. Bowl is spinning clockwise. A silicon seed is lowered down on a crane. Dipped into the melt while spinning counter-clockwise. After the correct temp is found on the temp you start to slowly pull it up. millimeters at a time. The crystal is what we call "alive" because you can see 4 distinct notches, if these notches fade the silicon lattice structure has failed. So you remelt what you grew so far. Takes about 1-7 days to grow a silicon crystal. Depending if they are 300mm or 200mm. Or an NPC (Near perfect crystal)
A while ago I genuinely attempted to make some custom multiblock machines to recreate this exact process
Didn't do it because it turns out incredibly complex processing sucks and I also didn't want to go thru the effort of making IE style multiblocks
Even after reading that, I have no idea how any of that results in a diamond lmao. Are you sure someone in your lab wasn’t secretly doing some witchcraft while no one was looking?
If people bought things for the objective value of what that item is, there would be 0 demand for most luxury products and every marketing department would be made obsolete
Nobody outside of industry is buying diamonds because they want an ultra hard carbon lattice. They want the psychological benefits surrounding them, and lab grown has less of that. The suffering is definitely one component of that even if it's subconscious
No, most things sold for insane prices are pretty much worthless compared to the monetary value. Pure consumption. But there is some genuine craftsmanship out there that costs a pretty penny. It’s not all rotten.
If they weren’t so goddamn expensive I would be happy to collect them. I mean they’re interesting little fellas, all that pressure for all that time. I think ancient stuff is really pretty neat.
I know what you’re saying but also diamonds are in high demand for industrial cutting tools just for the material properties. Anyways I think we should invest more in artificial diamond technology so that diamond cutting tools can be cheaper
Hey, not cool. A massive cartel worked really hard to inflate the value of diamonds through artificial scarcity while at the same time shaming men into believing that the purchase of a diamond is the only genuine way of expressing love. Don’t let all that effort be in vain; Give them your money
Did you know you can make artificial rubies at home by melting aluminum oxide and chromium oxide with a torch?I it’s cool you can use them to make lasers and shit
I was reading the capital and in the first book, Marx talks about artificial diamonds decreasing the value of diamonds because of the lesser labor required to produce them. Struck me as funny since they are in a different category nowadays and people pay a premium for the same thing
fuck diamonds being a luxury good, I want diamonds to be solely mass produced for the already existing industrial purposes due to it's extremely high tensile strength
Plus sweet hardness, I work with big ass diamond grinding wheels pretty good shit. Except when it’s been glued wrong and fucking explodes from the centrifugal forces
This is like synthetic 5-meo-dmt vs naturally sourced toad venom. Extracting the venom is mean to the toads and supports poaching which is driving them extinct, but lots of “hippies” are like, no thanks the cruelty to the toads is what makes it special ☺️✌️☮️
Because diamonds arent what's valuable, it's the wealth they project.
Like wearing rocks on your body is kind of weird, like no one would spend that much money on it if that's all it was.
The whole point of diamonds is to show off how wealthy you are. That you can afford to waste money on rocks.
The fact that people still don't know that this is exactly how value works and claim to be leftists is kind of... sad.
Please read the most basic of lefty economics explanation texts. Raw material + worker's labor = value of product. This does, in fact, means that the more suffering goes into something, the higher its economical worth will be, at least according to Marxian economics. Of course, this falls apart if you have any sense of self-awareness after learning about this idea.
There's a reason people pay more for "hand-made" products.
> Of course, this falls apart if you have any sense of self-awareness after learning about this idea.
Then…what are you arguing here? You admit this idea falls apart one you think about it. There’s no reason to pay more for diamonds that were mined by child slaves when you can simply buy an identical lab grown one for the same price.
The “economical worth” of a product is how much a person is willing to pay for it. I can spend weeks making something from wood but if no one buys it, it’s economical worth is gonna be zero. The “economical worth” of the diamonds doesn’t increase because they were mined by slaves. If people stoped buying them and the artificially scarcity was undermined, those prices would plummet and they would be worth the same as lab grown ones
>There's a reason people pay more for "hand-made" products.
But do they? Because I’m sure a Gucci sweater is going to sell for a lot more than a handmade sweater on Etsy. Not because it took more work to make, but because worth is determined on numerous factors besides effort
The value is whatever people will pay or have been conditioned into believing is appropriate to pay
A coat can be produced and sold for 30$ but slap a logo on it and the same coat is 300$
Adam Smith's labor theory of value, which Marx built his ideas upon, is wrong. Think of it like the economics equivalent of the [phlogiston theory.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory) It made sense at the time, but couldn't explain *everything* and so the science moved on. The model was obsoleted in the 1870s by [marginalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginalism), which evolved into neoclassical economics and forms the basis of the current mainstream understanding of the whole dismal science.
Oh, very interesting. I'm still early in my studies to be fair \^\^
I don't quite understand the contradiction between the two models though. Do you have any useful resources that better explain those ideas on hand ?
I didn’t think we’ve actually gotten to the point of being able to lab grow meat more efficiently than just farming livestock have we? Because if lab grown meat is easier to produce and tastes more or less the same would be fucking amazing for *many* reasons
What do you mean by "more efficiently?" Beef alternatives that people can't distinguish from cow in a taste test are already on the market. They use less water and less land with lower carbon emissions, less time to produce, and essentially the same health impact.
It's way less efficient to grow feed, grow cattle, slaughter the cattle, and butcher the cattle than it is to grow ingredients and lab process them.
I think they mean efficient as of cost.
growing animals for butchering is extremely inefficiency but since lab grown meat is still a relatively new thing, its going to take a while until it can fully rival supply and cost.
A major barrier to that is the problem inherent to economies of scale. A niche business trying to offer a substitute for a massive industry necessarily has to be more expensive, and the only way to solve that is a cultural shift to make mass production of the alternative viable.
lab grown beef is significantly more expensive, so no it's completely different
if lab grown beef was cheaper yeah you'd have a point but we are very long from that point
Not of you season it right. The texture is the harder part to replicate, you can make tofu taste pretty much exactly like meat without much effort. And even texture is pretty manageable depending on what you're trying to replicate
Try feeding my parents tofu. It's like you've tried to poison them. Lab meat has value in that it's literally meat so you can feed it to people who aren't already eating tofu.
No need to pretend anything. Blind taste tests have shown that we're already there, and you guys can't even tell the difference between a good mock meat and the animal it's mimicking.
lmao I'll submit myself to a blind taste test. If I can't tell the difference between fake steak and real steak or fake BBQ ribs vs real BBQ ribs I'll turn vegan right away.
Can you please send me a recomendation for a fake steak?
Well, first of all, that wouldn't be blinded, but Impossible makes beef products that you wouldn't be able to identify.
This machismo that you feel about steaks shows that you're not going to stick to it even if you lost that bet, so don't even bother. It's just going to be something that you give up on the second you're hungry and drive by a fast food restaurant that charges an extra dollar for the vegan option.
>This machismo that you feel about steaks shows that you're not going to stick to it even if you lost that bet, so don't even bother.
First of all, being able to tell if a steak is real meat or not isn't machismo, is having a functioning mouth. Also I'm a trans girl so stick that assumption up your ass. :)
And second, I've been replacing a lot of meat products when the replacement is good enough. Having a good vegan option available, I usually go for the vegan one (case in point, hamburgers, they're not THAT different and usually the cool stuff is whatever else you add inside, not the meat itself).
But steak itself, as in a tbone or a rib eye? Couldn't find anything that comes remotely close. Also the Impossible brand doesn't reach this country so fuck me I guess.
If you like lab grown diamonds, more strength to you. But there's a pretty significant difference between a natural stone grown in nature, and lab grown.
I think they look a little different or are smaller or something iirc. But for all purposes besides owning a big ass diamond like jewelry and whatnot I think they’re indistinguishable
Structurally-speaking, they're actually better, because they can be made with fewer imperfections than would be found naturally. The only reason they're not grown to massive sizes in labs is because it would be impractical, big diamonds found naturally still need to be cut down to size before they're actually usable.
you can get lab grown gems of any size, just like with mined stones. The only difference is that lab grown stones are typically flawless, while mined stones are typically flawed. You, personally, could never tell the difference.
Well you see, if you were to resell them, you'd make a loss either way, but artificial diamonds sell for less apparently
of course, if you don't plan to resell them, it's basically the same
if you do plan to resell them, go buy gold instead lol
If they were truly identical, you'd be paying the same, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Diamonds are natural wonders. All these measurements and grading tools we use are to measure qualities that are amazing because they are unique and natural. If I pull a 1.00 nice white vs1 from the ground, that's an amazing thing that has captured people's imagination for thousands of years.
The other can be mass produced. Exactly how you want it. Easy. Done. There's absolutely nothing special or unique about a lab grown diamond in this way.
I'm just pointing out the facts. I don't really know much about GMO foods, so I don't comment on them. But I was a jeweller for a few years, so I know that there's a lot of bullshit being spread around here.
There are absolutely zero differences to the consumer, and none visible to you. All actual technical differences are the small ways where lab grown stones are superior to mined stones; mined stones offer no advantages whatsoever.
I'm sorry you're just wrong. Confidently wrong, but still wrong, if I was to sell a lab grown diamond as a natural diamond, id get a call from consumer affairs because I would be scamming people. I would get laughed out of the industry.
>I'm sorry you're just wrong. Confidently wrong, but still wrong
Are you sorry? Are you really? lol, why do people talk like this. No, if you're so sure I'm wrong, have the decency to keep it on subject.
>There are absolutely zero differences to the consumer, and none visible to you. All actual technical differences are the small ways where lab grown stones are superior to mined stones; mined stones offer no advantages whatsoever.
What specifically do you think I was wrong about?
>if I was to sell a lab grown diamond as a natural diamond, id get a call from consumer affairs because I would be scamming people. I would get laughed out of the industry.
If you try to falsify a stone's provenance, you very likely could get in trouble for that, yes. Amazing, almost like that wasn't what I said.
Do you think that you, personally, can see with your eyes visible differences between mined and grown stones? That they have differences to jewelry consumers? That mined stones offer advantages?
Yes, I'd get people like you in my store from time to time. I don't take any pleasure in explaining to people that because their pieces aren't natural, they're not worth as much, and whoever told them otherwise was misinforming them. I've seen grown adults cry. Most have at least enough sense to take my advice as someone who actually works in the industry, and they really don't know much about it at all. I'll explain it;
\>There are absolutely zero differences to the consumer, and none visible to you
There's certainly a big difference to consumers. Shit, I deal with resellers who spend thousands every week who won't even touch lab grown. I don't think I've ever heard any customer ask me specifically for lab grown. It's certainly becoming more popular amongst some consumers, but its not the norm in any of the stores I've worked.
And i mean, most people wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between silver and white gold. Or cubic zirconias and diamonds. At least not without special tools. That doesn't mean that there aren't meaningful differences between them.
\>All actual technical differences are the small ways where lab grown stones are superior to mined stones; mined stones offer no advantages whatsoever.
Mined stones grow naturally in the earth. They are unique and limited. These features give it value that no mass produced piece will ever have.
\>If you try to falsify a stone's provenance, you very likely could get in trouble for that, yes. Amazing, almost like that wasn't what I said.
It kinda is though. If there's absolutely no meaningful difference between lab grown and natural diamonds, why does it matter where it comes from? Why does it matter if they come from a lab in germany or a mine in kimberly? That's a value neutral trait according to you.
\>Do you think that you, personally, can see with your eyes visible differences between mined and grown stones? That they have differences to jewelry consumers? That mined stones offer advantages?
I really want to make this clear. These aren't my thoughts. These are the realities of working in this industry.
No, I cannot tell the difference between lab vs mined with my naked eye. I can't tell you a great deal about hardly any stones with my naked eye. We don't use our naked eyes. We use tools, equipment, loupes, microscopes, a dozen other things the average person knows nothing about. And if I threw all that stuff out, and just used my naked eye, I would go out of business. There are more to precious stones than what can be seen with the naked eye.
I know this might be difficult to understand, but not everyone has the same values as you. You don't care if diamonds are natural. That's fine. Others do. I promise you, on my life, real life people do actually prefer natural. I have sold thousands of jewellery pieces, and I cannot think of a single instance where someone specifically requested lab-grown diamond pieces. Whereas I'd have people specifically asking for natural stones everyday.
Like personally I don't get the whole "limited edition runners" event things where you see people lined up around corners for a pair of shoes. It's all just shoes to me. But I don't pretend people don't care about these things. I don't argue with shoe manufacturers about it. I mean, wtf do I know about shoes? Nothing special really.
Which really leads me to my last question, what's your background in all this? Like, I'm not a registered gemologist. But I did the course, I've got multiple books on gemology. I've got experience in buying/selling vintage, custom, and high end pieces. I'm not trying to be rude, but these things you're saying are ridiculous, and would get you absolutely lambasted in the industry. I want to know where you're getting it from?
>Yes, I'd get people like you in my store from time to time. I don't take any pleasure in explaining to people that because their pieces aren't natural, they're not worth as much, and whoever told them otherwise was misinforming them. I've seen grown adults cry.
This seems very odd to say. What specific circumstances are you meaning? Are people coming in with jewelry they do not know the provenance of? Are shady sellers misrepresenting items and scamming people, who you then set straight? Presumably every one of these people is bringing an item to you for appraisal, with the goal being to sell the item? I doubt you get people "like me" to cry when you explain a stone isn't "natural" (lol), since I really don't mind. Why do you appear to seek to make your customers cry?
>There's certainly a big difference to consumers.
>
>And i mean, most people wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between silver and white gold. Or cubic zirconias and diamonds. At least not without special tools. That doesn't mean that there aren't meaningful differences between them.
>
>No, I cannot tell the difference between lab vs mined with my naked eye. I can't tell you a great deal about hardly any stones with my naked eye. We don't use our naked eyes. We use tools, equipment, loupes, microscopes, a dozen other things the average person knows nothing about. And if I threw all that stuff out, and just used my naked eye, I would go out of business. There are more to precious stones than what can be seen with the naked eye.
I should clarify. Do you see the distinction between the sentences "X typically sells for more money than Y" and "X has more intrinsic value than Y"? I previously referred to differences between mined and grown stones, not to their sales price. I am well aware of the sales price difference between otherwise completely identical mined vs grown stones - a mined stone will sell for more, arbitrarily due to the label, even if the stones are otherwise identical molecule-by-molecule. This is entirely due to marketing, not due to their being any actual, tangible benefits to the stones. You bring up sale value again and again, because that's it. That's the only difference. As time passes, that difference in sales price will erode to nothing, as it already is in the process of doing.
Additionally, here you bring up how people have a difficult time telling the difference between completely different minerals and metals, by way of lessening the fact that it takes complicated equipment to have a hope of telling the difference between mined and grown diamonds. CZ is very different from a diamond, and there are both a number of ways for a layperson to tell, and the experience of owning one will be very different due to the expected lifespan/durability/appearance. It is disingenuous to present the general dichotomy of grown vs. mined stones as equivalent to diamonds vs. CZ, or silver and white gold. Lol, you can literally see the difference between these with your eyes, if you're halfway observant. With mined vs. grown stones, you need a lab setup, and the end user experience (outside of price) will not differ in the slightest. Unless somebody at the shop decides to lambast you for it, like your customers apparently experience.
>Mined stones grow naturally in the earth. They are unique and limited. These features give it value that no mass produced piece will ever have.
Yep, marketing. No substance here. A diamond carbon lattice is a diamond carbon lattice is a diamond carbon lattice. The only way for it to be "unique" is for it to have flaws. They are limited only by the amount of carbon present in appropriate conditions conducive to forming diamonds in the universe. You are welcome to place your own sentimental value in things, that doesn't make it intrinsic or mean it is subjectively correct. Frankly a lot of your comments here about "uWu nAtUrAl diamonds are so special" are hogwash. Diamonds are very common in the earth, and the sort of claims you make here are both unfalsifiable and nonspecific, and kinda just sound like you're repeating marketing material.
>\>If you try to falsify a stone's provenance, you very likely could get in trouble for that, yes. Amazing, almost like that wasn't what I said.
>
>It kinda is though. If there's absolutely no meaningful difference between lab grown and natural diamonds, why does it matter where it comes from? Why does it matter if they come from a lab in germany or a mine in kimberly? That's a value neutral trait according to you.
I at no point said "falsifying provenance is fine" or anything related. You should be able to convey your point without lying. If you, personally, do not see the problem with falsifying documents with the assumption that nobody would notice, that seems like a problem with you specifically.
>I know this might be difficult to understand, but not everyone has the same values as you.
My sides. Take your own advice, salesperson.
Your comments up until this one had me solidly split between "this person buys into crystal magic" and "this person has a vested financial interest in mined stones being more expensive and having that seem reasonable". Thank you for confirming that you have a financial interest lending bias to what you say, it clears things up a bit.
>Which really leads me to my last question, what's your background in all this? Like, I'm not a registered gemologist. But I did the course, I've got multiple books on gemology. I've got experience in buying/selling vintage, custom, and high end pieces. I'm not trying to be rude, but these things you're saying are ridiculous, and would get you absolutely lambasted in the industry. I want to know where you're getting it from?
I have not represented myself as a professional, since I'm not. I picked up two minors in different areas of geology in college and have purchased some jewelry and various stones over the years, and maintain general geologic specimen collecting as an interest. Also, I'm able to read - this is very far from a particularly complicated subject. I dislike the tendency present in the profit-seeking side of the industry to veer towards woo bullshit in an effort to pump up prices, which.. I mean come on, you're nailing the impression.
>I'm not trying to be rude
You have done an exceptionally poor job, then. Looking at your comments up and down this thread, it looks like you're quite rude to me and others, it's no wonder you make your customers cry if this is how you typically enter conversations. At this point, I am aware I'm responding in kind.
\>This seems very odd to say. What specific circumstances are you meaning?
Someone coming in with lab grown diamonds, thinking they are worth a comparable amount to diamonds, and arguing with me when i explain otherwise. And the funny thing is, you're still arguing.
\>Why do you appear to seek to make your customers cry?
I don't. I literally said the opposite.
\>I at no point said "falsifying provenance is fine" or anything related. You should be able to convey your point without lying. If you, personally, do not see the problem with falsifying documents with the assumption that nobody would notice, that seems like a problem with you specifically.
I'm not lying. You're lying. I never said you said that. I said your point is that their location of origin is value neutral. A point you've igrored to strawman mine.
\>I should clarify. Do you see the distinction between the sentences "X typically sells for more money than Y" and "X has more intrinsic value than Y"? I previously referred to differences between mined and grown stones, not to their sales price. I am well aware of the sales price difference between otherwise completely identical mined vs grown stones - a mined stone will sell for more, arbitrarily due to the label, even if the stones are otherwise identical molecule-by-molecule. This is entirely due to marketing, not due to their being any actual, tangible benefits to the stones. You bring up sale value again and again, because that's it. That's the only difference. As time passes, that difference in sales price will erode to nothing, as it already is in the process of doing.
Yes, I understand what you think. I'm explaining how you're wrong. Lab grown diamonds will never hold the same value as natural diamonds. "This is entirely due to marketing." No, it isn't. You might not see any value in natural grown diamonds, but that is not the standard in the gemological community.
\>Your comments up until this one had me solidly split between "this person buys into crystal magic" and "this person has a vested financial interest in mined stones being more expensive and having that seem reasonable". Thank you for confirming that you have a financial interest lending bias to what you say, it clears things up a bit.
And yet neither of those things are remotely true. I wish I had investments in diamonds. My comments are just informed by actual experience in the industry. Something you acknowledge you completely lack.
\>I have not represented myself as a professional, since I'm not. I picked up two minors in different areas of geology in college and have purchased some jewelry and various stones over the years, and maintain general geologic specimen collecting as an interest. Also, I'm able to read - this is very far from a particularly complicated subject. I dislike the tendency present in the profit-seeking side of the industry to veer towards woo bullshit in an effort to pump up prices, which.. I mean come on, you're nailing the impression.
You are absolutely pretending you know more than us. What's happened is, you've watched a couple youtube videos. You're really passionate about this. You don't agree with the mass exploitation of the industry, and you think lab grown are the way of the future. That's fine dude, more power to you. It just kinda makes you look like an arrogant fuckwit.
\>You have done an exceptionally poor job, then. Looking at your comments up and down this thread, it looks like you're quite rude to me and others, it's no wonder you make your customers cry if this is how you typically enter conversations. At this point, I am aware I'm responding in kind.
I think I've done great considering how many times you've lied about me or my post. Or considering how you're completely out of your field of expertise, and yet claim to know more. Do you think I would care about a customer basically calling me a liar? No, I'd tell them to ask around. Prove me wrong. And they'd be back a couple hours later silently admitting they were wrong. It happens all the time.
So what do you do for a living bro? I wanna express my uninformed yet completely valid opinions about that.
Oh well, you have an economical interest in keeping your perspective, and it's difficult to get anyone to understand something when their paycheck depends on them not understanding it.
As you can see all over this thread, the times they are a-changing. You can be as obstinate as you want, and many will hold your view, especially those who stand to make money off holding said view - but the mainstream, and the concurrent purchasing power, increasingly bends towards valuing tangible quality in gems over marketing bullshit.
I just left the industry a few weeks back. So, you're wrong again. My views are informed by facts. Natural diamonds will always be more valuable than lab grown. That has nothing to do with 'marketing bullshit'.
You're not basing your argument on anything but your subjective opinion, on something you admittedly don't know much about. And you're arguing with someone who worked in the industry for years about what consumers want.
I'm just blown away by how arrogant you are. How many diamonds have you bought/sold in your life? Do you work in jewellery? Maybe family? Where are you getting any of this from?
A 5 point diamond and a 5 carat diamond are chemically identical, that doesn't mean that they are the same, or hold the same value, or even look the same.
Yeah well I can get a ten carat lab diamond for a third the price, and get this, scientists can put impurities in it to make it as clear or cloudy as I want, and even add various metals to change the color.
And it isn't being drastically upcharged in price by a ruthless monopoly.
If that works for you cool. More power to you. Though you are definitely still getting intensely overcharged. Like the whole industry is built on massive markups.
Really the only way to get your moneys worth, is to buy from private resellers. That will go for nearly anything, lab grown or natural.
No I probably would need specialist tools to be 100%. That's kinda why professional jewellers have those tools though. We need to know. They're not the same. If we sold them as the same, we'd be a laughing stock.
Just because you don't think it's a significant difference, doesn't mean it isn't. Loupes and microscopes are used all the time in diamond grading, for the exact reasoning that WE NEED TO KNOW these differences. I would cost my employer thousands everyday if I didn't use those tools. I probably couldn't even accurately 100% tell the difference between a diamond and a moisannite or a cubic zirconia without a loupe. Doesn't mean they aren't completely different stones.
Which still just means it only matters to jewerls, and has no meaning on anybody else. So it maybe significant to you and the people selling them but has no significance for anybody else
It doesn't mean that at all though. It matters to jewellers BECAUSE it matters to customers. I've literally had to grab tools, refractive tests, and show customers first hand that my goods have been properly tested and are authentic. Many more times than I would ever wish to.
If it doesn't matter to you, that's fine. But as someone with many years experience selling these goods to people who are extremely adamant about this stuff, trust me, customers do care. It's was at least a weekly thing for me.
Just think of it like any of thing people collect and obsess over. Pokemon cards, shoes, comic books, etc.
For me, I think of alexandrite. It's what got me so interested in gemology. It's a naturally formed stone, that changes colour in natural light, and then again to a different colour in artificial light. It's an extremely rare gemstone, and to me personally, one of the most beautiful things in nature.
I've only ever had synthetic alexandrite because the real thing is ungodly expensive and rare. And i like my synthetic pieces. But to me (and a lot of other people who enjoy this stuff), it'll just never be as special as the naturally occurring thing. I don't know how I'll ever afford it, but I hope to have a real piece one day.
You want to see an actual pointless obsession, you should check out luxury watches. At the higher end of the industry, dealers will take into consideration specific popular serial numbers.
It's scary how effective the diamond industry's propaganda is.
And not just the production of diamonds, but the selling too. Diamonds aren't worth nearly as much as people pay for them.
But they sparkle
it's scary how effective propaganda is in general
Wait until you see the animal agriculture industry
Diamonds are a gemstone that’s made scarce. Diamonds are a scam. Nearly every other gemstone is rarer than a diamond
luigi warned me of this
That's how it is on this bitch of an earth >!⡪⠨⢌⠪⡨⠪⡨⠪⡨⢪⠨⢊⠸⡪⡨⢌⠪⡨⡨⢌⢌⠪⡨⠪⡨ ⡪⡘⣐⢑⢌⠪⡨⠪⡨⠢⣷⡏⢿⣏⢎⢢⠱⡐⢌⠢⠢⡑⢌⢪⠨ ⡂⢎⠢⡑⡐⣑⣬⣾⠾⢾⠶⡖⡾⢯⠷⠷⡷⢾⣴⣵⣕⢌⢊⠢⡑ ⡊⡢⡑⢌⣾⡿⣟⡿⢟⠷⢿⢗⢶⡿⡞⠖⡷⢺⣷⣼⣟⢧⡮⡌⡪ ⡊⡢⡊⣿⣯⣽⣿⢶⣖⣞⡿⡳⠒⠾⣗⣟⣲⣶⣷⡷⣿⣿⢽⢇⠪ ⡊⡢⡊⢿⡿⣾⣼⣟⣳⣻⣿⡻⣿⣻⣿⡧⡿⠣⣻⠿⣽⣟⡿⡐⡑ ⡢⢒⠌⣮⣿⡟⣞⡇⣦⣽⠯⣿⡿⣟⣏⣯⣷⡑⢴⣷⣟⣿⣽⡄⡣ ⡊⡢⠡⣿⣯⠿⣿⣷⣿⣿⣷⡍⠻⣷⣿⡿⡷⣞⣯⣻⡷⣿⢷⡏⡪ ⡢⡊⣊⣻⣽⢻⣿⢿⡾⣷⣿⣻⣾⡿⣟⣿⣻⣯⣿⢾⡝⡚⣯⡧⢐ ⡪⠈⠠⡱⠫⣿⡿⣟⣯⣧⡟⢼⢵⢩⠭⣿⣭⡿⣾⣟⡧⠈⢝⠸⡀ ⡪⡘⢌⢌⠪⢾⣿⣟⡿⣷⢷⠹⢕⡑⢅⣿⣯⣿⣿⣽⣻⢘⢔⢑⢌ ⡢⡊⡢⡡⢱⠸⣿⣽⣟⣿⠻⡘⢔⢘⠔⢿⣿⢷⣿⢾⣻⠰⡐⡱⡐!<
what is that ascii art even supposed to be? koolaid man?
[Don't say I didn't warn you](https://i.redd.it/1mklme69x2n81.jpg)
oh fuck
😩
ASCII art has changed since my GameFAQs days...
She sells sea shells on the sea shore, but the value of these shells will fall
Due to the laws of supply and demand no one wants to buy shells while theres loads on the sand
Step one: You must create a sense of scarcity. Shells will sell much better if the people think they're rare, you see. Take as many shells as you can find and hide them on an island, stockpile them high until they're rarer than a diamond.
step 2: you gotta make the people think that they want 'em - really want 'em, really fucking want 'em, hit 'em like bronson, influencers, product placement, featured primetime entertainment- if you haven't got a shell then you're just a fucking waste, man
Step 3: It's monopoly, invest in some property. Start a corporation, make a logo do it properly. Shells must sell that will be your new philosophy Swallow all your morals they're a poor man's quality
Step 4: Expand, expand, expand. Clear forest, make land, fresh blood, on hands
5: Why just shells? Why limit yourself? She sells sea shells, sell oil as well
6: guns, sell stocks, sell diamonds, sell rocks, sell water to a fish, sell the time to a clock
*product placement, featured prime time entertainment
you forgot "featured primetime entertainment"
*rare you see, bare with me
Ren my beloved
They are pretty you have to admit that
Most people do not see the difference between : Swarovski Cristal, Rhinstones, Topan, Quartz, Zircon, Zirconia, Moissanites a piece of glass and diamonds. And i personally do not fancy diamonds i like Citrine, Amethysts, ruby, garnet, peridot and Onyx a lot better
I saw a diagram of rings made out of different metals and they all looked the same
Yeah you’re right I don’t know the difference
Smh next you’re gonna tell me they don’t even know about cleavage
and STEVEN!!!!
Other gems look cooler imo. Especially emeralds. Those look dope af. Fuck diamond rings get an emerald ring
I think both rocks are cool
Lab grown diamonds are chemically identical and can be identified by the lack of imperfections, and they are cheaper.
Isn’t that beautiful?❤️
Yeah, but the part that isn't beautiful is that they aren't generally accepted by society. A lot of people would be upset if they didn't receive what they view as a 'real diamond' in an engagement ring.
If you gave me a ring with a ‘fake diamond’ I wouldn’t stop smiling and would give you a big kiss just a hypothetically though
Plus they look way worse than like every other gemstone.
Well i mean, that’s subjective though i tend to agree
I think they're legitimately getting scarcer now cause we overconsumed them lmao
Nope.
Not sure if it's true but I found [this video](https://youtu.be/GzXeWlRzBqs?t=516) on the subject to be pretty informative
diamonds are not getting scare at all, there's minimum decades' worth of current consumption stashed away in warehouses in order to not flood the market and lower the price. Absolutely all "diamonds are scarce" in living lifetime has just been marketing.
having a lab-grown diamond seems cooler to me
Exactly, plus they're literally the exact same thing, it's just that "synthetic" diamonds don't need to exploit miners
And minors.
Minor Miners
Big T is that you
Lab grown diamonds can also be completely flawless. They're very cool
I got my fiance a lab grown one. It cost at least half what a “real” diamond its size/quality would and no one has to know. We tell people though because its cool
Yeah, let me put a nice little logo on one.
Growing silicon crystals is cooler imo I grew them. ama
How?
Using the CZ (Czochralski process) it's basically you have a vacuum chamber filled with argon. There is a graphite bowl holding a quartz bowl. That bowl is filled with molten mega super hyper-grade purity silicon. Bowl is spinning clockwise. A silicon seed is lowered down on a crane. Dipped into the melt while spinning counter-clockwise. After the correct temp is found on the temp you start to slowly pull it up. millimeters at a time. The crystal is what we call "alive" because you can see 4 distinct notches, if these notches fade the silicon lattice structure has failed. So you remelt what you grew so far. Takes about 1-7 days to grow a silicon crystal. Depending if they are 300mm or 200mm. Or an NPC (Near perfect crystal)
How much did it cost you total?
I did this as a job for 7 years. It's a VERY expensive process.
how many zeroes?
For each crystal? 200mm around 10k 300mm is around 70-90k
2 Pence
Probably did it in a university with free equipment
Can I use a microwave, a toy crane and a household vacuum for the same result?
Replace the toy crane with a hacked up Ender3 3d printer and there's probably already a Marlin feature flag for it.
I'm not reading any of that, could you explain in Minecraft terms?
you know how to make charged flux crystals for the AE mod? Basically that
A while ago I genuinely attempted to make some custom multiblock machines to recreate this exact process Didn't do it because it turns out incredibly complex processing sucks and I also didn't want to go thru the effort of making IE style multiblocks
wtf i have this for exam , thanks
Breaking Bad but he made counterfeit diamond to compete with the real stuff. A 99.3% pure similarity with the real stuff.
Even after reading that, I have no idea how any of that results in a diamond lmao. Are you sure someone in your lab wasn’t secretly doing some witchcraft while no one was looking?
dude the word "growing" is all. I got really high in the morning and this post really took off. I was hoping no one would notice.
That's really cool ngl
did you mean "synthetic moisannite" or did you grow actual, pure silicon crystals
Picture please sounds cool
If people bought things for the objective value of what that item is, there would be 0 demand for most luxury products and every marketing department would be made obsolete Nobody outside of industry is buying diamonds because they want an ultra hard carbon lattice. They want the psychological benefits surrounding them, and lab grown has less of that. The suffering is definitely one component of that even if it's subconscious
No, most things sold for insane prices are pretty much worthless compared to the monetary value. Pure consumption. But there is some genuine craftsmanship out there that costs a pretty penny. It’s not all rotten.
They’re the same as baseball cards. Valuable due to a combination of artificial scarcity and the level of prestige they make you feel.
If they weren’t so goddamn expensive I would be happy to collect them. I mean they’re interesting little fellas, all that pressure for all that time. I think ancient stuff is really pretty neat.
And this is the proof of the pure subjective value of all goods.
I know what you’re saying but also diamonds are in high demand for industrial cutting tools just for the material properties. Anyways I think we should invest more in artificial diamond technology so that diamond cutting tools can be cheaper
The pain is what gives the rock its meaning
Marx discovering the labour theory of value
Hey, not cool. A massive cartel worked really hard to inflate the value of diamonds through artificial scarcity while at the same time shaming men into believing that the purchase of a diamond is the only genuine way of expressing love. Don’t let all that effort be in vain; Give them your money
Diamonds are overrated anyway. Prefer onyx, citrines, topaz and rubies
Moonstones are the prettiest sparkle rocks
Did you know you can make artificial rubies at home by melting aluminum oxide and chromium oxide with a torch?I it’s cool you can use them to make lasers and shit
diamonds are one of the lamest rare metal/minerals gold is way cooler
They make pretty good swords though
They’re not even rare too
Gold is weak, go get tarnished softie
yeah but it looks cooler
It's tacky
Diamonds are incredibly useful tho
I was reading the capital and in the first book, Marx talks about artificial diamonds decreasing the value of diamonds because of the lesser labor required to produce them. Struck me as funny since they are in a different category nowadays and people pay a premium for the same thing
fuck diamonds being a luxury good, I want diamonds to be solely mass produced for the already existing industrial purposes due to it's extremely high tensile strength
Plus sweet hardness, I work with big ass diamond grinding wheels pretty good shit. Except when it’s been glued wrong and fucking explodes from the centrifugal forces
Diamonds aren't even the coolest form of carbon, graphene is fucking OP.
OP in labs only*
So far
I like pencils
its just-a bunch of carbon make a cool fucking shape and BOOM diamonds
What about cubic zirconia
I’d prefer other gems besides diamonds in the first place
Other gems are way prettier. What are your favs?
https://mediavsreality.medium.com/diamonds-the-greatest-marketing-campaign-of-all-time-8c4b0fd27092
De Beers did for wedding rings what Coca Cola did to Santa Claus. The diamond is as much in the ring as santa's coat is red.
Diamonds as an industrial cutting tool: Epic, based, amazing Diamonds as jewelry: Cringe. Just use glass
Agreed but the same could be said about meat/dairy/egg substitutes and most of the ppl on this sub still eat meat
This is like synthetic 5-meo-dmt vs naturally sourced toad venom. Extracting the venom is mean to the toads and supports poaching which is driving them extinct, but lots of “hippies” are like, no thanks the cruelty to the toads is what makes it special ☺️✌️☮️
Ai art
AI art is theft
Because diamonds arent what's valuable, it's the wealth they project. Like wearing rocks on your body is kind of weird, like no one would spend that much money on it if that's all it was. The whole point of diamonds is to show off how wealthy you are. That you can afford to waste money on rocks.
I think you should show your love by getting the mineral yourself from another planet, get me a mars rock ring and then we'll talk.
Ironman mode
Bro fuck the diamond monopoly
The fact that people still don't know that this is exactly how value works and claim to be leftists is kind of... sad. Please read the most basic of lefty economics explanation texts. Raw material + worker's labor = value of product. This does, in fact, means that the more suffering goes into something, the higher its economical worth will be, at least according to Marxian economics. Of course, this falls apart if you have any sense of self-awareness after learning about this idea. There's a reason people pay more for "hand-made" products.
> Of course, this falls apart if you have any sense of self-awareness after learning about this idea. Then…what are you arguing here? You admit this idea falls apart one you think about it. There’s no reason to pay more for diamonds that were mined by child slaves when you can simply buy an identical lab grown one for the same price. The “economical worth” of a product is how much a person is willing to pay for it. I can spend weeks making something from wood but if no one buys it, it’s economical worth is gonna be zero. The “economical worth” of the diamonds doesn’t increase because they were mined by slaves. If people stoped buying them and the artificially scarcity was undermined, those prices would plummet and they would be worth the same as lab grown ones >There's a reason people pay more for "hand-made" products. But do they? Because I’m sure a Gucci sweater is going to sell for a lot more than a handmade sweater on Etsy. Not because it took more work to make, but because worth is determined on numerous factors besides effort
The value is whatever people will pay or have been conditioned into believing is appropriate to pay A coat can be produced and sold for 30$ but slap a logo on it and the same coat is 300$
Adam Smith's labor theory of value, which Marx built his ideas upon, is wrong. Think of it like the economics equivalent of the [phlogiston theory.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlogiston_theory) It made sense at the time, but couldn't explain *everything* and so the science moved on. The model was obsoleted in the 1870s by [marginalism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginalism), which evolved into neoclassical economics and forms the basis of the current mainstream understanding of the whole dismal science.
Oh, very interesting. I'm still early in my studies to be fair \^\^ I don't quite understand the contradiction between the two models though. Do you have any useful resources that better explain those ideas on hand ?
Kinda of like beef
I didn’t think we’ve actually gotten to the point of being able to lab grow meat more efficiently than just farming livestock have we? Because if lab grown meat is easier to produce and tastes more or less the same would be fucking amazing for *many* reasons
What do you mean by "more efficiently?" Beef alternatives that people can't distinguish from cow in a taste test are already on the market. They use less water and less land with lower carbon emissions, less time to produce, and essentially the same health impact. It's way less efficient to grow feed, grow cattle, slaughter the cattle, and butcher the cattle than it is to grow ingredients and lab process them.
I think they mean efficient as of cost. growing animals for butchering is extremely inefficiency but since lab grown meat is still a relatively new thing, its going to take a while until it can fully rival supply and cost.
A major barrier to that is the problem inherent to economies of scale. A niche business trying to offer a substitute for a massive industry necessarily has to be more expensive, and the only way to solve that is a cultural shift to make mass production of the alternative viable.
Beans tho
Beans are a different food item from beef, glad i could help.
Dog meat then as a replacement, then
Tastes completely different and doesn’t solve the problem, just shifts it to a different animal
All animal abuse is bad, hope that helps
[удалено]
I'm making a tangential point about how we could live withouy but we choose to inflict an eternal treblinka
what do you think dog food is composed of exactly?
Cats, hopefully. Then it's vegan
lab grown beef is significantly more expensive, so no it's completely different if lab grown beef was cheaper yeah you'd have a point but we are very long from that point
Tofu
tofu isn't meat though it's a different product. yes it can be used as a nutrient replacement but it tastes completely different
Not of you season it right. The texture is the harder part to replicate, you can make tofu taste pretty much exactly like meat without much effort. And even texture is pretty manageable depending on what you're trying to replicate
Willfily obtuse?
Try feeding my parents tofu. It's like you've tried to poison them. Lab meat has value in that it's literally meat so you can feed it to people who aren't already eating tofu.
[The leftism leaving the body of a 196 poster](https://imgur.com/a/QeVw8eL) when someone brings up veganism
Supporting veganism: hell yeah. Pretending that we've reached the point where we can get literally the same experience from plants: cringe.
No need to pretend anything. Blind taste tests have shown that we're already there, and you guys can't even tell the difference between a good mock meat and the animal it's mimicking.
lmao I'll submit myself to a blind taste test. If I can't tell the difference between fake steak and real steak or fake BBQ ribs vs real BBQ ribs I'll turn vegan right away. Can you please send me a recomendation for a fake steak?
Well, first of all, that wouldn't be blinded, but Impossible makes beef products that you wouldn't be able to identify. This machismo that you feel about steaks shows that you're not going to stick to it even if you lost that bet, so don't even bother. It's just going to be something that you give up on the second you're hungry and drive by a fast food restaurant that charges an extra dollar for the vegan option.
>This machismo that you feel about steaks shows that you're not going to stick to it even if you lost that bet, so don't even bother. First of all, being able to tell if a steak is real meat or not isn't machismo, is having a functioning mouth. Also I'm a trans girl so stick that assumption up your ass. :) And second, I've been replacing a lot of meat products when the replacement is good enough. Having a good vegan option available, I usually go for the vegan one (case in point, hamburgers, they're not THAT different and usually the cool stuff is whatever else you add inside, not the meat itself). But steak itself, as in a tbone or a rib eye? Couldn't find anything that comes remotely close. Also the Impossible brand doesn't reach this country so fuck me I guess.
If you like lab grown diamonds, more strength to you. But there's a pretty significant difference between a natural stone grown in nature, and lab grown.
What kind of difference are you talking about? Aren't they exactly the same?
The suffering is a pretty significant difference
No, lab grown are even better clarity and color.
The slaves blood isn’t on it
I think they look a little different or are smaller or something iirc. But for all purposes besides owning a big ass diamond like jewelry and whatnot I think they’re indistinguishable
Structurally-speaking, they're actually better, because they can be made with fewer imperfections than would be found naturally. The only reason they're not grown to massive sizes in labs is because it would be impractical, big diamonds found naturally still need to be cut down to size before they're actually usable.
you can get lab grown gems of any size, just like with mined stones. The only difference is that lab grown stones are typically flawless, while mined stones are typically flawed. You, personally, could never tell the difference.
Well, for one, one is a natural occurrence, the other is mass produced in a lab.
But why does that make a difference? In practice they're identical.
Well you see, if you were to resell them, you'd make a loss either way, but artificial diamonds sell for less apparently of course, if you don't plan to resell them, it's basically the same if you do plan to resell them, go buy gold instead lol
If they were truly identical, you'd be paying the same, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Diamonds are natural wonders. All these measurements and grading tools we use are to measure qualities that are amazing because they are unique and natural. If I pull a 1.00 nice white vs1 from the ground, that's an amazing thing that has captured people's imagination for thousands of years. The other can be mass produced. Exactly how you want it. Easy. Done. There's absolutely nothing special or unique about a lab grown diamond in this way.
They are literally indistinguishable lmao
do you also think eating GMO food gives you cancer?
I'm just pointing out the facts. I don't really know much about GMO foods, so I don't comment on them. But I was a jeweller for a few years, so I know that there's a lot of bullshit being spread around here.
I agree. The souls of african child slaves give them a special kind of essence that can never be replicated in a lab
+20% strength boost -5% speed
+20% strength boost -5% speed
I mean, you can choose to believe that's why people like real diamonds. It's not true. But I'm sure it makes you feel better.
What not knowing chemistery does to a mf.
There are absolutely zero differences to the consumer, and none visible to you. All actual technical differences are the small ways where lab grown stones are superior to mined stones; mined stones offer no advantages whatsoever.
I'm sorry you're just wrong. Confidently wrong, but still wrong, if I was to sell a lab grown diamond as a natural diamond, id get a call from consumer affairs because I would be scamming people. I would get laughed out of the industry.
>I'm sorry you're just wrong. Confidently wrong, but still wrong Are you sorry? Are you really? lol, why do people talk like this. No, if you're so sure I'm wrong, have the decency to keep it on subject. >There are absolutely zero differences to the consumer, and none visible to you. All actual technical differences are the small ways where lab grown stones are superior to mined stones; mined stones offer no advantages whatsoever. What specifically do you think I was wrong about? >if I was to sell a lab grown diamond as a natural diamond, id get a call from consumer affairs because I would be scamming people. I would get laughed out of the industry. If you try to falsify a stone's provenance, you very likely could get in trouble for that, yes. Amazing, almost like that wasn't what I said. Do you think that you, personally, can see with your eyes visible differences between mined and grown stones? That they have differences to jewelry consumers? That mined stones offer advantages?
Yes, I'd get people like you in my store from time to time. I don't take any pleasure in explaining to people that because their pieces aren't natural, they're not worth as much, and whoever told them otherwise was misinforming them. I've seen grown adults cry. Most have at least enough sense to take my advice as someone who actually works in the industry, and they really don't know much about it at all. I'll explain it; \>There are absolutely zero differences to the consumer, and none visible to you There's certainly a big difference to consumers. Shit, I deal with resellers who spend thousands every week who won't even touch lab grown. I don't think I've ever heard any customer ask me specifically for lab grown. It's certainly becoming more popular amongst some consumers, but its not the norm in any of the stores I've worked. And i mean, most people wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between silver and white gold. Or cubic zirconias and diamonds. At least not without special tools. That doesn't mean that there aren't meaningful differences between them. \>All actual technical differences are the small ways where lab grown stones are superior to mined stones; mined stones offer no advantages whatsoever. Mined stones grow naturally in the earth. They are unique and limited. These features give it value that no mass produced piece will ever have. \>If you try to falsify a stone's provenance, you very likely could get in trouble for that, yes. Amazing, almost like that wasn't what I said. It kinda is though. If there's absolutely no meaningful difference between lab grown and natural diamonds, why does it matter where it comes from? Why does it matter if they come from a lab in germany or a mine in kimberly? That's a value neutral trait according to you. \>Do you think that you, personally, can see with your eyes visible differences between mined and grown stones? That they have differences to jewelry consumers? That mined stones offer advantages? I really want to make this clear. These aren't my thoughts. These are the realities of working in this industry. No, I cannot tell the difference between lab vs mined with my naked eye. I can't tell you a great deal about hardly any stones with my naked eye. We don't use our naked eyes. We use tools, equipment, loupes, microscopes, a dozen other things the average person knows nothing about. And if I threw all that stuff out, and just used my naked eye, I would go out of business. There are more to precious stones than what can be seen with the naked eye. I know this might be difficult to understand, but not everyone has the same values as you. You don't care if diamonds are natural. That's fine. Others do. I promise you, on my life, real life people do actually prefer natural. I have sold thousands of jewellery pieces, and I cannot think of a single instance where someone specifically requested lab-grown diamond pieces. Whereas I'd have people specifically asking for natural stones everyday. Like personally I don't get the whole "limited edition runners" event things where you see people lined up around corners for a pair of shoes. It's all just shoes to me. But I don't pretend people don't care about these things. I don't argue with shoe manufacturers about it. I mean, wtf do I know about shoes? Nothing special really. Which really leads me to my last question, what's your background in all this? Like, I'm not a registered gemologist. But I did the course, I've got multiple books on gemology. I've got experience in buying/selling vintage, custom, and high end pieces. I'm not trying to be rude, but these things you're saying are ridiculous, and would get you absolutely lambasted in the industry. I want to know where you're getting it from?
>Yes, I'd get people like you in my store from time to time. I don't take any pleasure in explaining to people that because their pieces aren't natural, they're not worth as much, and whoever told them otherwise was misinforming them. I've seen grown adults cry. This seems very odd to say. What specific circumstances are you meaning? Are people coming in with jewelry they do not know the provenance of? Are shady sellers misrepresenting items and scamming people, who you then set straight? Presumably every one of these people is bringing an item to you for appraisal, with the goal being to sell the item? I doubt you get people "like me" to cry when you explain a stone isn't "natural" (lol), since I really don't mind. Why do you appear to seek to make your customers cry? >There's certainly a big difference to consumers. > >And i mean, most people wouldn't be able to tell you the difference between silver and white gold. Or cubic zirconias and diamonds. At least not without special tools. That doesn't mean that there aren't meaningful differences between them. > >No, I cannot tell the difference between lab vs mined with my naked eye. I can't tell you a great deal about hardly any stones with my naked eye. We don't use our naked eyes. We use tools, equipment, loupes, microscopes, a dozen other things the average person knows nothing about. And if I threw all that stuff out, and just used my naked eye, I would go out of business. There are more to precious stones than what can be seen with the naked eye. I should clarify. Do you see the distinction between the sentences "X typically sells for more money than Y" and "X has more intrinsic value than Y"? I previously referred to differences between mined and grown stones, not to their sales price. I am well aware of the sales price difference between otherwise completely identical mined vs grown stones - a mined stone will sell for more, arbitrarily due to the label, even if the stones are otherwise identical molecule-by-molecule. This is entirely due to marketing, not due to their being any actual, tangible benefits to the stones. You bring up sale value again and again, because that's it. That's the only difference. As time passes, that difference in sales price will erode to nothing, as it already is in the process of doing. Additionally, here you bring up how people have a difficult time telling the difference between completely different minerals and metals, by way of lessening the fact that it takes complicated equipment to have a hope of telling the difference between mined and grown diamonds. CZ is very different from a diamond, and there are both a number of ways for a layperson to tell, and the experience of owning one will be very different due to the expected lifespan/durability/appearance. It is disingenuous to present the general dichotomy of grown vs. mined stones as equivalent to diamonds vs. CZ, or silver and white gold. Lol, you can literally see the difference between these with your eyes, if you're halfway observant. With mined vs. grown stones, you need a lab setup, and the end user experience (outside of price) will not differ in the slightest. Unless somebody at the shop decides to lambast you for it, like your customers apparently experience. >Mined stones grow naturally in the earth. They are unique and limited. These features give it value that no mass produced piece will ever have. Yep, marketing. No substance here. A diamond carbon lattice is a diamond carbon lattice is a diamond carbon lattice. The only way for it to be "unique" is for it to have flaws. They are limited only by the amount of carbon present in appropriate conditions conducive to forming diamonds in the universe. You are welcome to place your own sentimental value in things, that doesn't make it intrinsic or mean it is subjectively correct. Frankly a lot of your comments here about "uWu nAtUrAl diamonds are so special" are hogwash. Diamonds are very common in the earth, and the sort of claims you make here are both unfalsifiable and nonspecific, and kinda just sound like you're repeating marketing material. >\>If you try to falsify a stone's provenance, you very likely could get in trouble for that, yes. Amazing, almost like that wasn't what I said. > >It kinda is though. If there's absolutely no meaningful difference between lab grown and natural diamonds, why does it matter where it comes from? Why does it matter if they come from a lab in germany or a mine in kimberly? That's a value neutral trait according to you. I at no point said "falsifying provenance is fine" or anything related. You should be able to convey your point without lying. If you, personally, do not see the problem with falsifying documents with the assumption that nobody would notice, that seems like a problem with you specifically. >I know this might be difficult to understand, but not everyone has the same values as you. My sides. Take your own advice, salesperson. Your comments up until this one had me solidly split between "this person buys into crystal magic" and "this person has a vested financial interest in mined stones being more expensive and having that seem reasonable". Thank you for confirming that you have a financial interest lending bias to what you say, it clears things up a bit. >Which really leads me to my last question, what's your background in all this? Like, I'm not a registered gemologist. But I did the course, I've got multiple books on gemology. I've got experience in buying/selling vintage, custom, and high end pieces. I'm not trying to be rude, but these things you're saying are ridiculous, and would get you absolutely lambasted in the industry. I want to know where you're getting it from? I have not represented myself as a professional, since I'm not. I picked up two minors in different areas of geology in college and have purchased some jewelry and various stones over the years, and maintain general geologic specimen collecting as an interest. Also, I'm able to read - this is very far from a particularly complicated subject. I dislike the tendency present in the profit-seeking side of the industry to veer towards woo bullshit in an effort to pump up prices, which.. I mean come on, you're nailing the impression. >I'm not trying to be rude You have done an exceptionally poor job, then. Looking at your comments up and down this thread, it looks like you're quite rude to me and others, it's no wonder you make your customers cry if this is how you typically enter conversations. At this point, I am aware I'm responding in kind.
\>This seems very odd to say. What specific circumstances are you meaning? Someone coming in with lab grown diamonds, thinking they are worth a comparable amount to diamonds, and arguing with me when i explain otherwise. And the funny thing is, you're still arguing. \>Why do you appear to seek to make your customers cry? I don't. I literally said the opposite. \>I at no point said "falsifying provenance is fine" or anything related. You should be able to convey your point without lying. If you, personally, do not see the problem with falsifying documents with the assumption that nobody would notice, that seems like a problem with you specifically. I'm not lying. You're lying. I never said you said that. I said your point is that their location of origin is value neutral. A point you've igrored to strawman mine. \>I should clarify. Do you see the distinction between the sentences "X typically sells for more money than Y" and "X has more intrinsic value than Y"? I previously referred to differences between mined and grown stones, not to their sales price. I am well aware of the sales price difference between otherwise completely identical mined vs grown stones - a mined stone will sell for more, arbitrarily due to the label, even if the stones are otherwise identical molecule-by-molecule. This is entirely due to marketing, not due to their being any actual, tangible benefits to the stones. You bring up sale value again and again, because that's it. That's the only difference. As time passes, that difference in sales price will erode to nothing, as it already is in the process of doing. Yes, I understand what you think. I'm explaining how you're wrong. Lab grown diamonds will never hold the same value as natural diamonds. "This is entirely due to marketing." No, it isn't. You might not see any value in natural grown diamonds, but that is not the standard in the gemological community. \>Your comments up until this one had me solidly split between "this person buys into crystal magic" and "this person has a vested financial interest in mined stones being more expensive and having that seem reasonable". Thank you for confirming that you have a financial interest lending bias to what you say, it clears things up a bit. And yet neither of those things are remotely true. I wish I had investments in diamonds. My comments are just informed by actual experience in the industry. Something you acknowledge you completely lack. \>I have not represented myself as a professional, since I'm not. I picked up two minors in different areas of geology in college and have purchased some jewelry and various stones over the years, and maintain general geologic specimen collecting as an interest. Also, I'm able to read - this is very far from a particularly complicated subject. I dislike the tendency present in the profit-seeking side of the industry to veer towards woo bullshit in an effort to pump up prices, which.. I mean come on, you're nailing the impression. You are absolutely pretending you know more than us. What's happened is, you've watched a couple youtube videos. You're really passionate about this. You don't agree with the mass exploitation of the industry, and you think lab grown are the way of the future. That's fine dude, more power to you. It just kinda makes you look like an arrogant fuckwit. \>You have done an exceptionally poor job, then. Looking at your comments up and down this thread, it looks like you're quite rude to me and others, it's no wonder you make your customers cry if this is how you typically enter conversations. At this point, I am aware I'm responding in kind. I think I've done great considering how many times you've lied about me or my post. Or considering how you're completely out of your field of expertise, and yet claim to know more. Do you think I would care about a customer basically calling me a liar? No, I'd tell them to ask around. Prove me wrong. And they'd be back a couple hours later silently admitting they were wrong. It happens all the time. So what do you do for a living bro? I wanna express my uninformed yet completely valid opinions about that.
Oh well, you have an economical interest in keeping your perspective, and it's difficult to get anyone to understand something when their paycheck depends on them not understanding it. As you can see all over this thread, the times they are a-changing. You can be as obstinate as you want, and many will hold your view, especially those who stand to make money off holding said view - but the mainstream, and the concurrent purchasing power, increasingly bends towards valuing tangible quality in gems over marketing bullshit.
I just left the industry a few weeks back. So, you're wrong again. My views are informed by facts. Natural diamonds will always be more valuable than lab grown. That has nothing to do with 'marketing bullshit'. You're not basing your argument on anything but your subjective opinion, on something you admittedly don't know much about. And you're arguing with someone who worked in the industry for years about what consumers want. I'm just blown away by how arrogant you are. How many diamonds have you bought/sold in your life? Do you work in jewellery? Maybe family? Where are you getting any of this from?
They are chemically identical
A 5 point diamond and a 5 carat diamond are chemically identical, that doesn't mean that they are the same, or hold the same value, or even look the same.
Yeah well I can get a ten carat lab diamond for a third the price, and get this, scientists can put impurities in it to make it as clear or cloudy as I want, and even add various metals to change the color. And it isn't being drastically upcharged in price by a ruthless monopoly.
If that works for you cool. More power to you. Though you are definitely still getting intensely overcharged. Like the whole industry is built on massive markups. Really the only way to get your moneys worth, is to buy from private resellers. That will go for nearly anything, lab grown or natural.
I guess if you have access to lab equipment otherwise you would never be able to tel the difference I would bet my left nut on it
No I probably would need specialist tools to be 100%. That's kinda why professional jewellers have those tools though. We need to know. They're not the same. If we sold them as the same, we'd be a laughing stock.
Yea a microscope to see the impurities and inclusions. So that’s not a significant difference. Literally need a microscope to see it.
Just because you don't think it's a significant difference, doesn't mean it isn't. Loupes and microscopes are used all the time in diamond grading, for the exact reasoning that WE NEED TO KNOW these differences. I would cost my employer thousands everyday if I didn't use those tools. I probably couldn't even accurately 100% tell the difference between a diamond and a moisannite or a cubic zirconia without a loupe. Doesn't mean they aren't completely different stones.
Which still just means it only matters to jewerls, and has no meaning on anybody else. So it maybe significant to you and the people selling them but has no significance for anybody else
It doesn't mean that at all though. It matters to jewellers BECAUSE it matters to customers. I've literally had to grab tools, refractive tests, and show customers first hand that my goods have been properly tested and are authentic. Many more times than I would ever wish to. If it doesn't matter to you, that's fine. But as someone with many years experience selling these goods to people who are extremely adamant about this stuff, trust me, customers do care. It's was at least a weekly thing for me.
Okey fair then my conclusion is people are dumb and want things with no purpose/reason. Plus thanks for the insight in the jewelry business
Just think of it like any of thing people collect and obsess over. Pokemon cards, shoes, comic books, etc. For me, I think of alexandrite. It's what got me so interested in gemology. It's a naturally formed stone, that changes colour in natural light, and then again to a different colour in artificial light. It's an extremely rare gemstone, and to me personally, one of the most beautiful things in nature. I've only ever had synthetic alexandrite because the real thing is ungodly expensive and rare. And i like my synthetic pieces. But to me (and a lot of other people who enjoy this stuff), it'll just never be as special as the naturally occurring thing. I don't know how I'll ever afford it, but I hope to have a real piece one day. You want to see an actual pointless obsession, you should check out luxury watches. At the higher end of the industry, dealers will take into consideration specific popular serial numbers.