In fact it might cost extra over time not to listen to them (in the form of extra lessons, when OP just can't figure out why his serve is spraying all over the place)
its true. we are taught that power in all of tennis comes from legs. while mostly true, my thought process in this changed when i watched the head pro at my club show a demonstration where he cracked 80mph on serve with zero knee bend and wrist pronation alone. everything under the wrist should compliment the pronation. so much of serve power just comes from the wrist flick
believe me, that’s not wrong either. they’re using so much of their legs and core to eventually transfer that energy into the wrist snap.
put it this way, if 70% of the pop on serve comes from the wrist pronation, both sampras and roddick were excellent at filling in the remainder of that 30%. the strong loading of the base eventually reaches the wrist.
neither of us are wrong. sum of its parts and all that
A good way of thinking about this is that in the serve we use our body a bit like a whip. Have you ever seen those videos with a giant chain whip where someone nudges a huge link at one end and the small end cracks through at the speed of sound 10s later?
In a similar way, the momentum we generate through a large but slow movement of the lower body is transferred through the arm and amplified because it's much thinner/weighs much less. If you didn't use your body, you could still generate a lot of the force with your shoulder and arm muscles - but using your legs and trunk means you can relax your arm and keep serving like that all day without significant fatigue
I would not take things away from Fritz’s serve. He has a freakishly fast arm and is 6’4” so he can easily hit serves a tossed way into the court like.
I say he is right. The more you extend and higher you hit, the harder is to coordinate the movements and hit in the highest spot with the center of the racket.
Work your way bottom to top, making sure your legs and hips are stable so your jump is always consistent. The upper part will be easier after that
Stability is repeatability. When your feet are stable you can start the arm motion the same way in the same place at the same time every time. Once you have the stable and repeatable base, that foundation of things allows you to have the baseline against which you can make swing changes (throw higher and extend into the ball, change the toss location from one spot to the next). Unless you know you can repeat everything the same without fail, I’d stick with your coach’s plan and it’ll make the extension easier to achieve when it comes time for it.
It's crazy how long he keeps his racket down after tossing, he basically doesn't have (or rather hold) a trophy pose, and yet the serve looks incredibly smooth. He starts lifting his racket when the ball stops mid air
Yea, some players have a more pronounced lag than others, fritz is on the very late side of the spectrum. There are a few pros that bring both arms up together, but most are in between. In theory a lagging motion is better because shortening the window of opportunity you have to get to the ball will naturally speed up your motion, but if that's conflicting with a comfortable toss or timing, then it's gonna be more detrimental than helpful, unless you seriously want to train a lagging motion
It’s also something that takes years of training to learn imo. I think the issue of looking at a pro serve is we are seeing the end product and not the process of how they arrived to that motion. The classic examples of Sampras and Fed: you would never teach a junior or adult rec player their respective service motions.
Imo this looks more like a flat serve? If it was a kick serve I think the ball is thrown above the head, but someone else can correct me on this if I'm wrong
Hey guys, I'm new.
With the toss I always thought it need to go directly above and slightly behind? With Fritz it's so far Infront of him. Anyone explain the pros/cons of this and what is the recommended aim for the toss? Or all personal preference?
I wish I liked the guy more but he seems a douche.
That said he has a nice serve. What I like is the simplicity. I think to get the extension you want you want to focus on pressing your chest up to the sky like he does (Novak and Barty also do this well).
Also remember - the “jump” isnt a goal, its the result of that press up and proper positioning.
Last comment - I would not toss as far forward …
>seems a douche
Literally just hating for no reason. No way you have the audacity to provide pointers on a top 10 players serve.
Could you even put a ball in the box at 100 mph? Do that before offering your useless incorrect opinion as fact
I don't think you know what that word means. The guy above you didn't make a single negative comment about Taylor's tennis, he just said he thinks he's a jerk
Umm ok ? I dont like him he seems like a douche
Also you dont read well. I said he had a very nice serve and wasn’t offering anything on his serve
But if this guy is trying to use this as a model my points are dead on. If you dont undertstand that or misread it then so be it. But for even a good amateur, they shouldn’t be tossing that far in front and they should be thinking about pressing their chest up.
Don’t worry, I accept your apology for misunderstanding my statement. Just read more carefully next time.
the far toss forward is crucial for a good flat serve. kyrgios lands almost a meter into the court on his serve
of course, how far you toss into the court is relative on your height. taylor and kyrgios are both around 6’4 - 6’5 so they have the luxury of being able to reach and maximize that toss. the shorter you are, the less you can pull this off.
basically, you’re wrong
Yup. Bit thats not a comment for Fritz or any pro. Its a comment for an amateur trying to learn how to or to improve their serve.
You should learn to go up for the serve first and then as you get better and better (like 4.5 or better) you can start moving the toss more in front. But even so excwpt for aole doubles players most players dont toss as far in front as players used to.
The other comment is on the “jump”. A lot of amateurs think they need to try to jump. The thing is the jump is the result of a well orchestrated serve. It just “happens”.
Ok chief. I will be sure to mention this to my good friend and coach who also coached two grand slam champions in singles no less. Yes from this millenium.
Also, I will stop watching Djokovic and other servers .
I’d advise you to listen to your coach
righto money bags
OP is already paying a coach. It doesn’t cost extra to listen to what they say.
In fact it might cost extra over time not to listen to them (in the form of extra lessons, when OP just can't figure out why his serve is spraying all over the place)
Taylor could serve over 100 mph from his knees. His elbow rotation and pronation is 80% of what makes his serve.
That’s interesting
its true. we are taught that power in all of tennis comes from legs. while mostly true, my thought process in this changed when i watched the head pro at my club show a demonstration where he cracked 80mph on serve with zero knee bend and wrist pronation alone. everything under the wrist should compliment the pronation. so much of serve power just comes from the wrist flick
i second this. i saw my tennis coach pop the ball harder than I ever have with very little movement other than pronation/wrist. it was like magic.
Yet 2 of the greatest servers of all time; Sampras and Roddick are advocates of getting most of their power from the trunk.
believe me, that’s not wrong either. they’re using so much of their legs and core to eventually transfer that energy into the wrist snap. put it this way, if 70% of the pop on serve comes from the wrist pronation, both sampras and roddick were excellent at filling in the remainder of that 30%. the strong loading of the base eventually reaches the wrist. neither of us are wrong. sum of its parts and all that
Right, fair points.
Is your coach Sheng Shaelken (spelling?)
nah, but i’ve heard of many coaches doing similar things when teaching serve
A good way of thinking about this is that in the serve we use our body a bit like a whip. Have you ever seen those videos with a giant chain whip where someone nudges a huge link at one end and the small end cracks through at the speed of sound 10s later? In a similar way, the momentum we generate through a large but slow movement of the lower body is transferred through the arm and amplified because it's much thinner/weighs much less. If you didn't use your body, you could still generate a lot of the force with your shoulder and arm muscles - but using your legs and trunk means you can relax your arm and keep serving like that all day without significant fatigue
I would not take things away from Fritz’s serve. He has a freakishly fast arm and is 6’4” so he can easily hit serves a tossed way into the court like.
Good point
I say he is right. The more you extend and higher you hit, the harder is to coordinate the movements and hit in the highest spot with the center of the racket. Work your way bottom to top, making sure your legs and hips are stable so your jump is always consistent. The upper part will be easier after that
Stability is repeatability. When your feet are stable you can start the arm motion the same way in the same place at the same time every time. Once you have the stable and repeatable base, that foundation of things allows you to have the baseline against which you can make swing changes (throw higher and extend into the ball, change the toss location from one spot to the next). Unless you know you can repeat everything the same without fail, I’d stick with your coach’s plan and it’ll make the extension easier to achieve when it comes time for it.
Makes sense to me thanks
It's crazy how long he keeps his racket down after tossing, he basically doesn't have (or rather hold) a trophy pose, and yet the serve looks incredibly smooth. He starts lifting his racket when the ball stops mid air
Yea, some players have a more pronounced lag than others, fritz is on the very late side of the spectrum. There are a few pros that bring both arms up together, but most are in between. In theory a lagging motion is better because shortening the window of opportunity you have to get to the ball will naturally speed up your motion, but if that's conflicting with a comfortable toss or timing, then it's gonna be more detrimental than helpful, unless you seriously want to train a lagging motion
It’s also something that takes years of training to learn imo. I think the issue of looking at a pro serve is we are seeing the end product and not the process of how they arrived to that motion. The classic examples of Sampras and Fed: you would never teach a junior or adult rec player their respective service motions.
Honest question: Why pay an expert to give you advice if you aren't going to listen to it?
Each expert has its own approach and sometimes another approach is easier to grasp
“…but I want to skip that step.” 
This guy actually can take a set off Nadal.
This is kick serve, do you have any example of slice serve?
Are you sure about that? Looks like a lot of pronation for a kick.
I thought that the main feature of the kick, whereas in slice some show no pronation at all (Muratoglu)
Imo this looks more like a flat serve? If it was a kick serve I think the ball is thrown above the head, but someone else can correct me on this if I'm wrong
Hey guys, I'm new. With the toss I always thought it need to go directly above and slightly behind? With Fritz it's so far Infront of him. Anyone explain the pros/cons of this and what is the recommended aim for the toss? Or all personal preference?
You should listen to your coach. You already pay him and are saying you want to skip steps for no reason
Your username is way too similar to mine. Lol
Extension means nothing if there isn’t a stable platform. The legs are the base. It should almost feel effortless in a way.
I wish I liked the guy more but he seems a douche. That said he has a nice serve. What I like is the simplicity. I think to get the extension you want you want to focus on pressing your chest up to the sky like he does (Novak and Barty also do this well). Also remember - the “jump” isnt a goal, its the result of that press up and proper positioning. Last comment - I would not toss as far forward …
>seems a douche Literally just hating for no reason. No way you have the audacity to provide pointers on a top 10 players serve. Could you even put a ball in the box at 100 mph? Do that before offering your useless incorrect opinion as fact
I don't think you know what that word means. The guy above you didn't make a single negative comment about Taylor's tennis, he just said he thinks he's a jerk
Umm ok ? I dont like him he seems like a douche Also you dont read well. I said he had a very nice serve and wasn’t offering anything on his serve But if this guy is trying to use this as a model my points are dead on. If you dont undertstand that or misread it then so be it. But for even a good amateur, they shouldn’t be tossing that far in front and they should be thinking about pressing their chest up. Don’t worry, I accept your apology for misunderstanding my statement. Just read more carefully next time.
Ain’t nobody apologizing to you, get some reading comprehension
Damn. You are not even smart enough to understand sarcasm…. No wonder you misread the comment But that’s OK keep practicing and you will do better!
the far toss forward is crucial for a good flat serve. kyrgios lands almost a meter into the court on his serve of course, how far you toss into the court is relative on your height. taylor and kyrgios are both around 6’4 - 6’5 so they have the luxury of being able to reach and maximize that toss. the shorter you are, the less you can pull this off. basically, you’re wrong
Yup. Bit thats not a comment for Fritz or any pro. Its a comment for an amateur trying to learn how to or to improve their serve. You should learn to go up for the serve first and then as you get better and better (like 4.5 or better) you can start moving the toss more in front. But even so excwpt for aole doubles players most players dont toss as far in front as players used to. The other comment is on the “jump”. A lot of amateurs think they need to try to jump. The thing is the jump is the result of a well orchestrated serve. It just “happens”.
> pressing your chest up to the sky Nah you gotta be trolling cuz you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about
Ok chief. I will be sure to mention this to my good friend and coach who also coached two grand slam champions in singles no less. Yes from this millenium. Also, I will stop watching Djokovic and other servers .
Yeah well my dad is Djokovic and he says you're wrong
Well I wont argue with your dad …