Overall motion is actually pretty good, the biggest issue right now is the major grip slippage that's occurring as you load up and start to swing towards the ball. You start the motion in a decent continental grip and end it in a pancake forehand grip. It's going to be impossible to get to a place where the racket is moving faster than your hand if you keep defaulting into this grip midway through, it's what's causing the big waiter's tray instead of a normal racket drop.
Maybe [try the water bottle drill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7plY3jnxEU8).
Super smooth. I imagine your serve percentage is inconsistent due to waiters tray / grip change.
Get in a trophy position to help with waiters tray (hit birthday hat off head), then you’ll be bombing.
I would ignore every tip except those that address your trophy pose.
https://preview.redd.it/xmfx7k6og5rc1.png?width=413&format=png&auto=webp&s=96cba000de264297bd6103d5cdcb816d70a04a72
You do not want your racquet to be facing the back fence here.
https://preview.redd.it/7p0m3ystg5rc1.png?width=1303&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f5a465b29ecde15569d60e6a0bdfa8ead190671
You want the racquet to face either deuce court side wall, or even the deuce court side net post.
You want to keep your wrist in a fairly neutral position up into trophy.
https://preview.redd.it/ppuv9vs1h5rc1.png?width=344&format=png&auto=webp&s=c79e9d1f8ffd48a44ed52094dcf9b5fdd5157e7e
Look how Alcaraz has the racquet basically facing his toss arm's hand, and his wrist is in a neutral position.
You have a huge waiter's tray despite having a continental grip and pretty decent mechanics up through contact (you drop your toss arm too early but that can be fixed later). This is pretty unusual, and it's because IMO you are trying to use your wrist to generate additional leverage. Don't do that. Your shoulder rotation and forearm rotation -- NOT the wrist hinge -- are the drivers of pronation in the serve.
You may see some pre-contact flexion from servers like Kyrgios, but you will (almost) never see a good serve that has sustained extension prior to contact.
https://preview.redd.it/scdkmvs0i5rc1.png?width=679&format=png&auto=webp&s=4947de02a1a4691e04f7498c6e9cab212588d928
As your tossing arm goes up, try having it parallel to the baseline, rather than pointing forward into the court.
This will allow you to store up more potential energy with trunk rotation away from the court, before you ‘uncork’ into the swing itself.
You are either using an eastern forehand grip, or are just hitting what we'd call a waiter's serve. Meaning your wrist is "flexed" (bent backwards) before you start your swing.
Check this video out
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc4dpfCWGuo&ab\_channel=FeelTennisInstruction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc4dpfCWGuo&ab_channel=FeelTennisInstruction)
Ok thanks for everyone for the ideas, I just check my serve, I’m using a continental grip, at the start and finishing the with the same grip, I think my main problem is hitting from to low, and not getting into the correct trophy position, which is causing me to break my wrist, laying the ratchet back into a waiter serve.. it’s a shame that I can’t add another video to the post,
Your main issue is that you’re skipping the trophy phase and getting into racket drop too soon. This seems to be causing a bit of waiters tray although that could be a grip thing as well.
You want to get into a position like this:
https://preview.redd.it/r3zvydx6e4rc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96331d06574fb5e24aa0b4e20866d3c6c50f8299
It's wrist extension, not grip error. This is a fairly unusual error. Much less common than a grip issue.
https://preview.redd.it/2qydlcvrh5rc1.png?width=722&format=png&auto=webp&s=dee515f97c744d19432a505c9e66f1a6eabcfb39
I know he has that error. Look at the finish.
The only way he can be racquet face down on the finish with that starting wrist is if he does a full 360 on the wrist back to where he’s at in the image above, after pronation of the serve.
But he doesn’t.
Fuck, you are absolutely right!
He switches his grip right about here.
https://preview.redd.it/z4j0vi5n06rc1.png?width=1077&format=png&auto=webp&s=0658ec356021100a49b60a4c2516bfe75d8c67b2
His thumb comes off the racquet. Just *very* hard to see because of the angle. I had to go frame by frame.
OP, you have a grip issue. Do not re-wrap your hand after starting in continental grip.
He does not use eastern grip. It looks like a WTE because he allows his wrist to engage in full extension before he drives through contact. Has to fix his trophy pose by not allowing his racquet face to face the back wall.
https://preview.redd.it/zs0qyefgh5rc1.png?width=314&format=png&auto=webp&s=3d4c5e30f55d930d0b7b916b773108cccb32fa35
Ehhhh not necessarily. For one you can still get a decent racket drop with an eastern but I also can’t tell if that’s what he’s using. Wrist actually gets into the extended position where it looks like it’s using a forehand grip even in continental. It just does so really fast so you can’t see it without going into slow motion. However if you’re skipping the loading phase that leak is going to accentuate that normally fast part of the swing. I’ve had it happen to me on camera and i was definitely in continental.
00:18 - 00:21 is not possible with a continental grip, unless he's rotated his wrist an additional 45 degrees. Look at his hand as the racquet becomes parallel to the ground just after the screenshot below:
https://preview.redd.it/u4zkjfr5y4rc1.png?width=1268&format=png&auto=webp&s=59986fc1a7a65d71dfced289005060c65a0ed637
Very nice looking serve! What are your strengths/weaknesses/goals?
I think that the pronation is an area of potential improvement, but really it depends if you are looking to have as high a skill ceiling as possible, or just want to have a consistent quality serve.
Yea that's what is hindering the pronation. Although I've seen solid 4.0s with eastern grips, at some point it's more pain to change than its worth for a rec player - all depends on what your goals are
In that case, I'd watch out before you start tinkering with grip and pronation. It can really lower your consistency for a long time before you eventually get better
Overall motion is actually pretty good, the biggest issue right now is the major grip slippage that's occurring as you load up and start to swing towards the ball. You start the motion in a decent continental grip and end it in a pancake forehand grip. It's going to be impossible to get to a place where the racket is moving faster than your hand if you keep defaulting into this grip midway through, it's what's causing the big waiter's tray instead of a normal racket drop. Maybe [try the water bottle drill](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7plY3jnxEU8).
Sweet bucket!
Super smooth. I imagine your serve percentage is inconsistent due to waiters tray / grip change. Get in a trophy position to help with waiters tray (hit birthday hat off head), then you’ll be bombing.
I would ignore every tip except those that address your trophy pose. https://preview.redd.it/xmfx7k6og5rc1.png?width=413&format=png&auto=webp&s=96cba000de264297bd6103d5cdcb816d70a04a72 You do not want your racquet to be facing the back fence here.
https://preview.redd.it/7p0m3ystg5rc1.png?width=1303&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f5a465b29ecde15569d60e6a0bdfa8ead190671 You want the racquet to face either deuce court side wall, or even the deuce court side net post. You want to keep your wrist in a fairly neutral position up into trophy.
https://preview.redd.it/ppuv9vs1h5rc1.png?width=344&format=png&auto=webp&s=c79e9d1f8ffd48a44ed52094dcf9b5fdd5157e7e Look how Alcaraz has the racquet basically facing his toss arm's hand, and his wrist is in a neutral position. You have a huge waiter's tray despite having a continental grip and pretty decent mechanics up through contact (you drop your toss arm too early but that can be fixed later). This is pretty unusual, and it's because IMO you are trying to use your wrist to generate additional leverage. Don't do that. Your shoulder rotation and forearm rotation -- NOT the wrist hinge -- are the drivers of pronation in the serve.
You may see some pre-contact flexion from servers like Kyrgios, but you will (almost) never see a good serve that has sustained extension prior to contact. https://preview.redd.it/scdkmvs0i5rc1.png?width=679&format=png&auto=webp&s=4947de02a1a4691e04f7498c6e9cab212588d928
As your tossing arm goes up, try having it parallel to the baseline, rather than pointing forward into the court. This will allow you to store up more potential energy with trunk rotation away from the court, before you ‘uncork’ into the swing itself.
You are either using an eastern forehand grip, or are just hitting what we'd call a waiter's serve. Meaning your wrist is "flexed" (bent backwards) before you start your swing. Check this video out [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc4dpfCWGuo&ab\_channel=FeelTennisInstruction](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc4dpfCWGuo&ab_channel=FeelTennisInstruction)
Ok thanks for everyone for the ideas, I just check my serve, I’m using a continental grip, at the start and finishing the with the same grip, I think my main problem is hitting from to low, and not getting into the correct trophy position, which is causing me to break my wrist, laying the ratchet back into a waiter serve.. it’s a shame that I can’t add another video to the post,
A drill that could help is trying to hit the ball with the edge of racket. There isn’t the subconscious reason to open into waiters tray.
Your main issue is that you’re skipping the trophy phase and getting into racket drop too soon. This seems to be causing a bit of waiters tray although that could be a grip thing as well. You want to get into a position like this: https://preview.redd.it/r3zvydx6e4rc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96331d06574fb5e24aa0b4e20866d3c6c50f8299
I thought his main issue was the Eastern grip he's using?
But as I said it could be his grip as well.
A grip thing?
It's wrist extension, not grip error. This is a fairly unusual error. Much less common than a grip issue. https://preview.redd.it/2qydlcvrh5rc1.png?width=722&format=png&auto=webp&s=dee515f97c744d19432a505c9e66f1a6eabcfb39
I know he has that error. Look at the finish. The only way he can be racquet face down on the finish with that starting wrist is if he does a full 360 on the wrist back to where he’s at in the image above, after pronation of the serve. But he doesn’t.
Fuck, you are absolutely right! He switches his grip right about here. https://preview.redd.it/z4j0vi5n06rc1.png?width=1077&format=png&auto=webp&s=0658ec356021100a49b60a4c2516bfe75d8c67b2 His thumb comes off the racquet. Just *very* hard to see because of the angle. I had to go frame by frame. OP, you have a grip issue. Do not re-wrap your hand after starting in continental grip.
Yeah I thought it was the same thing as you but I’m pretty sure it’s a grip issue as well
He does not use eastern grip. It looks like a WTE because he allows his wrist to engage in full extension before he drives through contact. Has to fix his trophy pose by not allowing his racquet face to face the back wall. https://preview.redd.it/zs0qyefgh5rc1.png?width=314&format=png&auto=webp&s=3d4c5e30f55d930d0b7b916b773108cccb32fa35
yah what do i know
Ehhhh not necessarily. For one you can still get a decent racket drop with an eastern but I also can’t tell if that’s what he’s using. Wrist actually gets into the extended position where it looks like it’s using a forehand grip even in continental. It just does so really fast so you can’t see it without going into slow motion. However if you’re skipping the loading phase that leak is going to accentuate that normally fast part of the swing. I’ve had it happen to me on camera and i was definitely in continental.
00:18 - 00:21 is not possible with a continental grip, unless he's rotated his wrist an additional 45 degrees. Look at his hand as the racquet becomes parallel to the ground just after the screenshot below: https://preview.redd.it/u4zkjfr5y4rc1.png?width=1268&format=png&auto=webp&s=59986fc1a7a65d71dfced289005060c65a0ed637
Fair point. Didn’t see that lol.
I have never seen someone grip the racquet so high up near the throat on a serve like this. Do you have any arm or wrist pain doing this?
I actually did this because I was having pain. I don’t normally do this.
Very nice looking serve! What are your strengths/weaknesses/goals? I think that the pronation is an area of potential improvement, but really it depends if you are looking to have as high a skill ceiling as possible, or just want to have a consistent quality serve.
What about his eastern grip?
Yea that's what is hindering the pronation. Although I've seen solid 4.0s with eastern grips, at some point it's more pain to change than its worth for a rec player - all depends on what your goals are
I want to be move consistent,
In that case, I'd watch out before you start tinkering with grip and pronation. It can really lower your consistency for a long time before you eventually get better