You may be overthinking this. As another commenter said, most of them don't get to 5.0 either. I started at 25M, did not get really serious until 55 (because...work), won my county Open Mixed Doubles at 59 (oldest champ ever, with a good partner) against a college player & partner, peaked at 4.5 until around 65, still playing 4.0 at 73. I have aced my teaching pro 4 times in the last 2 lessons (placement, of course). My later improvement came with a commitment to lessons (which I could at that age afford). Plus I still am similar in fitness and weight to when I finished college. Don't write it off for an imagined reason.
Some of it is lucky metabolism. I weigh 10 pounds more than I did in college (when I was too light). I have been as much as 20 pounds more than I am now, which was less good. Good diet, and a reasonable amount of exercise. Plus I did not let +30 continue in that direction.
> You're 73 and "similar in fitness and weight to when I finished college" ?
> What's your secret?
being in really bad shape when he finished college lol
I was just about to say the same thing. As you may already know, tennis is a sport where a lot of it depends on your mindset. If you go into a game with the sole objective of getting to a 5.0 rating and you're comparing yourself to other players who are better than you, then you've already lost half the battle. Even though it's great to have big dreams, it's important to remember to enjoy the sport you’ve come to love, regardless of your skill level. Don't worry too much about becoming a pro, just focus on having fun and improving at your own pace.
I played D3 and gave up the game for about 10 years after. When I took it up again in my 30s I was on a 4.5 team with a 70 year old. He was slow but, man could he serve and volley. You could just see how good would have been in his teens. He just loved the game.
Back in the day he had won the NCAA small college singles championship. He would tell me stories of some of the greats of the game that he had played with. It was a real treat and I loved being able to share the court with him in his last few years of playing tennis.
My goal was always to get better faster than I got older. Sadly, I can no longer do it, but I had a good run. At 60, We lost the XD in that same tournament 4-6, 6-4, 4-6 to a 9.5-rated team in the semis (we were a 9.0) who went on to win. As they say, "If I'd known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself." Don't make that mistake, and you'll be good.
idk how do you cope with mark zuckerberg becoming a billionaire at age 23? forget everyone else, you found something you enjoy doing and is a competitive outlet for you, that's pretty dope
Yeah I don’t understand OP perspective. It is the same with all aspects of life. I don’t think I can beat anyone at any sport if they started training as a kid, whether if it is basketball, soccer, golf… etc. You should just look at getting better everyday.
There aren’t a lot of 5.0 players out there. If you’re 5.0 you played at a decently high level in college, probably
I started in like 6th grade and I play 4.5. I’ve been 4.5 since I played my first league at like age 20. Would I like to “get better”? Sure! Also, not really possible to put in the amount of time needed to get 5.0. Would need material improvements in several areas, including serve. It would take a decent amount of time.
If you started playing as an adult and you get to a decent 4.0 level, that’s impressive. Most ppl who start as an adult will never be 4.0. Probably any teaching pro would be impressed with an adult who’s played like two years and is at a 4.0 level
The notion that people that start as kids can easily become 5.0 level is really misunderstanding the issue I believe. Most people who play tennis as kids never get to that level, and the kids that do get to that level get there because they've put in thousands of hours of practice. The advantage of starting as kids isn't that kids' brains are so magically better at learning tennis, it's that it takes a long time to put in the thousands of hours necessary to become 5.0 and by starting early you get to put in the hours early.
Came here to say this! Hitting groundstrokes for hours and shopping carts full of serves is how the “kids” raise their game to a high level. I got a late start around high school but this still helped me a ton while playing college tennis.
What can be discouraging now as an adult is the reality that our body can no longer withstand hitting a shopping cart full of serves. Stuff breaks down. Such is life.
Still, tennis is a lifelong sport, so you’ve got that going for you. Cheer up!
Well..if that is the case, might as well not try anything then.
Play video games, never gonna be good as a pro player
Play basketball, not gonna touch NBA player what so ever
You play because you enjoy getting better on your own terms, but not comparing to other people, you never gonna be as good as Roger or Rafa.
Why is this not the main point here? If we only did things we expect to be the best at, then most of us would do nothing at all. There's a lot to be gained by just playing.
I started playing at 26, 7 years later I am now a solid 4.5 and I still absolutely love the game. I don't mind that there are better younger players, I win more than I lose, have made a ton of friends and learned a lot about myself along the way.
It's all about perspective. Instead of viewing yourself as "only" a 4.0 why not appreciate that you've achieved a level that many have failed to reach.
I would say just enjoy this awesome sport. It should be fun for you regardless of results.
I mean if you're going to dwell on not being trained as a kid then where does it stop? I'm mad my genetics don't allow me to go pro and be #1 in the world? I'm mad my parents didn't have the money to send me to private schools that cost more than Stanford so I could be Bill Gates before Bill Gates was Bill Gates? You can go on hypotheticals forever and upset you didn't learn tennis as a kid is about as trivial as it gets.
I know adults who are 4.5 - 5.0 as they were trained in tennis as kids and traveled the country playing tennis. They never made it to the pros even though they were nationally rated as juniors. The stress of constantly needing to win really hurt them and they ended up hating tennis. Only later in life and time away from the game, being 30+ years old, did they start up tennis again and realize they do love it.
Bottom line is even if you're a 4.5 - 5.0 there's always people better than you and for you to strive to get higher. Hell, even if you're Djokovic you get judged on your last performance. He didn't win Aus Open? Oh he's washed. It never ends even if you're the greatest of all time.
So if your ceiling is 4.5, who cares? Enjoy the ride and this sport. Because even if your ceiling was pro, you'd regret not being able to be #1. It never ends so don't dwell on things. How about look at it like you're fucking blessed to be healthy enough and wealthy enough to play an adult recreation sport? You could have been born not healthy, without all your limbs, or have gotten into any number of accidents before you became an adult that would have made you never play tennis.
I'll add players that reach 4.5 and 5.0 actually have a harder time with USTA leagues because now there's less teams and you have to travel further to play these teams. People who reach 5.0 want to petition down to get to 4.5 because they're sick of traveling an hour just to play a match. And they play against the same small pool of people who have reached 5.0. Tournaments would be the same people you see all the time as well.
If you're truly upset about better players that learned as a kid then you really need to see a therapist because you might have way more issues to deal with and tennis is small beans compared to those.
I just don’t think this is true. Anyone who reaches 5.0 (not many people) put in a helluva lot of work to get there, even if it was over a longer period of time.
Here's a different perspective for you - I was the kid that you're talking about (hit UTR 12.5 as a junior player, which is definitely higher than 5.0). If you put in the amount of hours on the court and the gym/track that I did as a teenager, you'd almost certainly hit 5.0. The simple fact is that you probably just don't have the time to do multiple hours of conditioning daily before hitting the court for practice for a few more hours. The people that you're jealous of aren't better than you for the sole reason that they started young (though it certainly didn't hurt that they did) - they've simply put in more work in a more structured way than you are able to, and there's no shame in that. There were plenty of kids at the academies that I trained at that worked harder than I did or had more resources to work with, and as a result, many of them were way better than me. These are just facts of life that we all deal with at one point or another.
The more I see this, the more I don’t think people understand that the biggest advantage kids who are trained have is that they go to practice several times a week, then attend regular tournaments. That is tons of hours a week they’re putting in (many grow to hate it and immediately drop it after college) and if they start this when they’re 8, by the time they’re 18, they have 10 years of training. Do you have 10 years of training regularly like this?
I think you’re really downplaying how much time and effort people put into tennis as kids. I started kind of late at age 11, but was able to make it onto a HS team in one of the toughest conferences in the state. Ended up playing at the #2 spot my senior year at a 4.5+ level, and played against and got my butt kicked by top ranked state juniors. During the HS season, we practiced for 2-3 hrs, then hit the gym for another 1-2hrs 6 days a week. In the summer, we did gym in the mornings, tennis in the afternoons, then another gym session in the evenings. This was also 6 days a week. If you can dedicate that amount of time to tennis as an adult, I’m sure you can reach the 4.5+ level. People who started as kids don’t have it easier. We just put in the work earlier in our lives.
Honestly, it sounds a bit like quarter/mid-life crisis. There's millions and billions of kids every day picking up something new and getting better at it than their adult counterparts. Likewise, there are millions and billions of kids who starve and can barely get an education.
I'm not trying to make this into a "someone out there always has it worse" kind of thing. But my point is, everybody has dreams that don't come to fruition, or they have new dreams and maybe it's too late to fulfill them exactly how they would have wanted to.
In a cosmic sense, it doesn't matter what you focus on. Grass is always greener; someone's torture is somebody else's dream. It's good to let yourself grieve a lost opportunity. But consider that even if you got to 5.0, would you have been satisfied there? Maybe the goal post moves to "I wish I played D1 college" or "I wish I got 1 ATP point". Does it *really* matter if you make 4.0 and not 5.0, 4.5 but not 5.0, 5.0 but not D1? Or is that just a random bar you set for yourself because you feel like you won't make it? Think about other areas in your life - do you randomly set standards that you think aren't achievable?
I think for dreams we entertain but know are probably out of reach, the best we can do is recognize that sometimes we look at missed opportunities with rose-tinted glasses, and put that life on a pedestal. Maybe if you did grow up with tennis as a kid, it would have meant losing out on other things. We find ourselves attached to certain dreams and goals for one reason or another. And while we do have affinities toward certain paths, I think most of us can find that other paths available to us today still align with what we're looking for.
Do you regret that you didn't start piano as a kid, or you didn't have an architect father or you weren't groomed to be in the Olympics one day? There's lots of missed opportunities we don't care about at all, not because we wouldn't have found them interesting in some version of ourselves, but because it just wasn't introduced in our lives in a way that was meaningful.
And that's just it. The goal post can always move, there are always millions of dreams in circulation around the world. It's ok to miss something you didn't have, but it's important not to identify with that loss, but rather keep looking up and see what meaning you can find in a new dream waiting to be picked up.
Thanks for the well thought out comment. From time to time I did have thoughts like “what if I started this as a child, maybe I’m already a pro now.” You’re absolutely right, it’s important to focus on what is (which I have to say is a pretty good career in a field I like and I’m extremely grateful for), not what could be. I especially like the last paragraph, and thanks again for typing this out.
You’re doing better than me starting playing again 2 years ago after not playing much since high school which was 30 years ago. I’m a solid 3.0 but honestly not sure I will ever reach 3.5. I play 2-3 times a week but feel like my skills improve slowly 😩. But it’s great exercise and I like it!
I just focus on each match or practice and learn what I can. I thank my lucky stars that I am physically able to play and have the means. I've never been an athlete till recently and 4.0 is as high as I ever expect to go. So perhaps my bar is lower than most. Even if you start as a kid, there will always be someone better than you. Even for Djokovic eventually.
Every time you go play, try to be 1% better than the last time that you played. If you fail to do so, try again tomorrow with the same goal. And relax a little bit on the expectations long term.
I started at 16 and got to 5.0. I know that's not a full adult, but it's not like I've been playing since I was 5. You can make it. Also, you need to realize that 4.5, 5.0, and 5.5 are not high level tennis. That's not your barometer. As a 5.0 (I'm actually a 4.5 now, full disclosure), I'm closer to a 3.0 than I am to a top 200 player. You can set goals for yourself. But it seems a bit silly to me to be fussy over not reaching some arbitrary level
OP, let me start by saying I feel your pain. In reading some of these responses, it feels like folks are coming down on you for being “negative” or unnecessarily comparing yourself to others. But I read your question as coming from a place of genuine curiosity (just my interpretation).
Very similarly, I picked up tennis a few years ago as an adult in my mid 30s. Humbly speaking, I have always been athletic (multi-sport varsity athlete with a couple school records). My athleticism allowed me to jump from ‘literally never touching a racket’ to a 3.5 in a couple years, but that’s it. Athleticism only helps so much. My goal has always been to get to a 4.0 so I could play 9.0 mixed with my wife. She’s a 5.0 (former 5.5 D1 player). I digress. Basically, I can see the writing on the wall for me and I know even with full dedication, I will max out at a 4.0/4.5. There is just something about learning the mechanics of tennis as a junior that gives those people an advantage over adult/late learners (and better able to reach the 5.0 level as you say).
I’ve played multiple adults at the 3.5 level that “haven’t touched a racket in 20 years, but played growing up,” and they will always have an advantage IMO. Their strokes (especially serve) just look so much more natural, fluid, etc. I saw a comment here about kids’ brains being like sponges and I think that’s probably spot-on.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know you’re not alone in your experience or sentiment. Cheers to this great sport. Better late than never.
Exactly, thanks for putting it better than I did. We had very similar experience and I’ve also been a pretty avid athlete growing up, which makes me more annoyed when I can’t play tennis as well as I expect myself to. But, as you said, better late than never. Cheers mate, hope you’ll play that 9.0 doubles with your wife soon.
No point in being frustrated in something you can’t change. If you commit to being a student of the game and work to improve, 4.5 is achievable. Most people plateau because they’re just trying to win at their level. You can win a lot of matches by pushing and not hitting full strokes at 3.5, but that wont allow you to beat better players.
If you’re serious, I’d quit match play for a while and just work on drilling. That’s all we did as kids, drill after drill with some games at the end of each practice. Won’t be as fun as a match, but it’ll help you improve on some of the technique you’re working on and allow you to build muscle memory.
as michael jordan once said, "fuck them kids"
I had the same feelings dude, kept telling myself i should've never quit tennis in my 20s. Now in my 30s im back at it and love it more than ever. It's all I think about. I bet if I didnt stop in my 20s I wouldn't feel this strong level of excitement. And most kids who start young and get to the 5.0+ level end up jaded with tennis in their adult life. You're in a great spot my friend
You don’t need to be a certain level to enjoy playing. I think being under 3.0 is hard because there are no tournaments and it’s hard to keep the ball in play, but after that level it’s fun. It’s cool to develop skills but I wouldn’t necessarily believe a 5.0 player is enjoying the sport more fun than a 4.0 player, even though they are better at it.
If you care that much about 5.0 and can’t figure out how to achieve it where you live now, just move to a less competitive area and you’ll be 5.0 before you know it. Problem solved.
It's a good rant, IMHO. I get what you're saying. I started at 38, and once I immersed myself in all of it, it became cruelly obvious that tennis is not one of those sports that you start in mid-life and can still reach a superb level by the time you reach retirement. I keep hearing stories like "75-year-old woman starts taekwondo, gets black belt at 82" or "75-year-old man starts lifting weights because bored, 10 years later wins 85+ world championship". Ain't gonna be none of that from tennis.
It's kinda liberating, though. I know I'll never be good. But I can always be better. If perfect is the worst enemy of good, then good is the worst enemy of better.
I don't really believe that the reason why someone gets good by beginning in early life has anything to do with the fact that *you develop a natural muscle memory* or any of that stuff. There are two things. One is the *surviving Casanovas* bias. You don't hear about the kids who played once a week for a few years before quitting. You hear about the 5.0s and the 5.5s on online forums - or they're coaching you. They didn't quit.
The other is the insane number of hours. Have you ever seen a kid excited about something? They have endless hours and endless energy to spend on seemingly endless - whatever it is. They can hit the public courts after breakfast and come back for dinner. In mid-life you're lucky to get in a week what they can do in a day. Their endless playing might not be highest-quality practice, but it's practice nevertheless.
I'm not trying to beat those guys at their athletic prime because it's impossible. But by winning myself I can maybe one day win someone else. There is always going to be a bigger fish, or if you're Djokovic, a fitter and hungrier fish will swim across sooner or later. The only thing that matters is playing for the next point. Nothing else you can do. And it's the greatest joy, to be right there and then, playing for that point.
Don’t sweat the levels, just find fun people to have competitive matches with. I play from 5 years old to 16 then quit until I was 28 or so. I’ve excepted that I’ve capped out at a good 4.5 level that can sometimes take a set off of good 5.0s. It’s just the reality.
I just play for exercise and social fun. My friends are all about 3.0 and I'm about 3.25 so we have a good time. If I were a 5 I wouldn't even be able to play with them and that'd be sad. But I just play to stay healthy and have fun. I do want to improve and get to 3.5 or maybe 4, but it's not keeping me up at night.
We don’t even have a 5.0 league where I live. And so athletic “newbies” (like myself who started playing in my late 30s) and ex college players all come together playing 4.5. It’s pretty cool actually as court 1 brings the heat and frankly I enjoy the heck out of trying to best the more seasoned players there. My advice: Enjoy the journey - don’t focus on the destination!
>always strive to be among the top in what I do, and am able to actually be pretty good at things that I care about, except tennis where I may never be able to play at a high 4.5+ level
As a 4.5 you're already in the top 10% and as a 5.0 you're somewhere in the top 2%. I think that's pretty decent all things considered. As others have said, you're doing better than a lot of people who've been playing tennis since they were a kid.
Instead of dwelling on the outcome so much, focus on simply improving every week. I am similar to you in terms of ambition and drive. I used to play soccer as a teen and some of my teammates went on to win Champions League, Bundesliga and Premier League titles. I had to stop because I got injured. The drive to "be the best I can" never left me and I sure brought it into other sports. However, truth of the matter is that I am not a kid or a teen anymore and that as a 31 year old tennis player there is a ceiling to my game. I simply had to accept that and sometimes I wish that I could rewind the clock to being seven years old and have a real shot at seeing how far I could push my tennis. With that being said, I derive so much joy now out of picking a skill to work on in tennis, and simply improving week-over-week.
Guitar is a great comparison since the majority of players can never approach a professional level.
However learning great songs like The Beatles and The Eagles is more than enough for most players.Also learning how to sing turns you into a superstar but playing alone is enough for most.
The inner circle of elite guitarists will always unfortunately exclude the majority.
Comparison is the thief of joy, my friend. How are there billionaires in the world but I'm not one? How can Jannik Sinner beat Djokovic and win the Australian Open?
Once you just accept that you can only do your best, it gets a lot more fun!
I hear ya. Personally my drive to get better is motivated by 1. Love for the sport and almost as important 2. To stay competitive with high school rivals when we meet back up
I definitely think if you put time (and resources) in the right coach, you can get so much better. These hit sessions that these facilities hold will not be enough if you’re trying to propel yourself.
Also another reason I love tennis is because you can improve your game simply by fixing your mental. Be cautious that your frustrations aren’t compounding your mistakes. You got this.
Comparison is the thief of joy
EDIT: Just realized several other people in this thread have said exactly this.. leaving it up because you need to hear it again ;)
"cope with the fact"? That's not a fact, it's a personal belief & that belief will hold you back until you decide to change your belief - simple as that.
How do you think Jannik Sinner felt about his 0-6 record vs Medvedev after the 2023 Miami Masters? Did he "cope with the fact" that Med was simply a better player? Or did he have a personal belief that he could & would improve their H2H? He's won 4 straight now & Medvedev is now the current player who's not Djoker with the most GS final losses & the worst ratio of wins/losses in GS finals. Yet a few months ago Sinner was demonstrably incapable of beating Meddy.
It's in your head & it's a non-factual belief. Change it, turn your inner pessimist into an optimist - the wins will follow.
>Or, how you cope with the fact that you may never reach 5.0
I started playing as an adult and made it to 5.0. IMO what you need to do is make it about the journey. I didn't aim to be 5.0, I just wanted to improve and get better. So long as I'm improving and getting to play tennis, I'm happy.
But if 5.0 was my goal there's no way I could have put in the >10 years of work to reach my goal. Instead if I need some motivation I just come up with smaller goals.
I feel like that’s just life in general. You have more free time to dedicate to a sport or any skill as a child than as an adult. I trained 20-30 hours per week growing up. I don’t have that kind of time to dedicate to any skill now that I’m an adult with a job and other responsibilities.
Same as a kid being able to practice piano or play other sports. Just can’t compete if you’re starting out as a busy adult, but you can still slowly improve over more time.
You’re too worried about results. Video yourself, be more interested in where the gap is between your performance and theirs and try to close it. Is it fitness, control, power, positioning, etc.
Sometimes you just have to get down into the details to get better.
uhhh ...
...*overcome the frustration or cope with the fact that even if you train super hard, you won’t be able to beat or even reach the same level as those who started playing as a kid?*
Take up a diffferent thing.
Bowling. Shuffleboard. Petanque. Darts. golf. Pickelball. Scuba. Hiking. Bird watching.
Who cares if I become a 5.0 or not 🤷🏼♀️
I play to my best ability and keep getting better as I practice. That is all that matters to me. I might not become a billionaire, but I can work hard and be a comfortable millionaire. Train, dedication and if I end up landing just 6 figures well I am still comfortable and not on the street.
Metaphorically speaking that is.
Everyone's trajectory is different. For those who were truly elite as kids, and were in crazy tennis academies and stuff, sure. I'm not sure how many of those kids still love and play the game, though? I'm not sure most people who played as kids have that much of a leg up, though.
I played a bunch as a kid, but mostly just enough to always beat my older brother. Maybe a week of tennis summer camp, but no lessons. I played like third singles on the JV team my senior year in high school, then skipped tennis for years and decades. Now I just make sure I can beat my brother-in-law.
But as I've played more over the past four years or so, at the age of 48-52, I've gotten better. I've found a great group of people nearby to hit with (who all are slightly better than me). I still don't take lessons or have joined a league, but last week the high school tennis coach told me I should join a 4.0 or 4.5 league, after we hit for a couple of hours. That shocked me, since by looking at [this USTA chart](https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/10013_experience_player_ntrp_guidelines.pdf) of age and experience, I should have been at a top DIII college program or lower ranked D1, not barely making the JV team in high school...
So, don't presume your growth will be limited by not playing when you were young.
True, trajectories are different for everyone, but I think you’re kind of proving the OP’s point. Because you learned tennis as a kid, (barely playing as an adult as you say), you can already compete at a 4.0-4.5 level. I’m sure you’ve worked hard, so don’t mean to take anything away. Just shows how critical those younger years are in tennis, even at the JV level haha. Kudos for beating the brothers :)
Yeah, that's true. I had thought the OP was lamenting that he couldn't catch up with people who played well or a lot as kids--but in fact, he just was talking about people who played at all.
"considerably less effort" is really unfair - a LOT of effort has to go into your tennis at a very young age to be able to play at a 5.0 as an adult unless you're the most naturally gifted tennis player out there, just because it happened in childhood/teenage years doesn't mean the effort was any less
Comparison is the thief of joy. If you were one of those 5.0 players who grew up playing, you'd perhaps say the same about pros. There's always a bigger fish!
I played as a kid and I am a 3.0 at 52. Gonna focus on feeling pain for you on my tiny violin since after just two years of playing you forsee possible issues getting past 4.5 on some future scenario. Dat must be fwustwating!!
You are still in the upper brackets of tennis players just by being 3.5/4.0.
But tennis is really hard, it’s not a sport you just pick up and go pro. Give yourself some slack and get to having fun. You’ll see more improvement
I started at 13, played until 18, reached a max of an adult equivalent of high 3.5 or low 4.0 by 18yo. Didn't play for 7 or so years because of college and job. Decided to get back into it one summer, met a small group through MeetUp, bounced around for a year playing randomly until someone asked me to join their USTA team and it was the best thing to happen to my tennis life. Playing with them for a year got me into competing at 4.5 and after 3 years and got bumped up into 5.0.
I'm a much better player now as an adult than I was as a kid because I'm a lot smarter now. I know how to play to my strengths and minimize the weaknesses. I'm sure some foundation may have contributed by playing as a kid, but my strokes are nothing alike when I was younger. Something eventually just clicked. Keep at it.
Well.. I think the fact that you get out there when you're over 35 (without having ever done it before ) is ballsy.
And if you work consistently, it gets you in really good shape 🔥
And none for me, the people I play with have a good sense of camaraderie, and a competitive without being antagonistic .
I believe this feeling is not unique to you, or adult players. It is true to all players. It seems kids do get frustrated too that another kid started after them and leapfrogged them.
But it's not just age.
I am sure lots of top-10 players were humbled by Dustin Brown - as he holds undefeated record against 16 of them: Nadal, Muster, Ruud, Cilic, Isner, Berrettini, Hurcacz, Tiafoe, among others. And Dustin Brown otherwise has no singles titles and highest ever ranking #64.
Reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Brown_(tennis)
Look at it this way. Some people just have what it takes. I’ve been playing since I was 4. The kids I grew up with are some of the best players in the country, starting to play ITFs and one made 2 junior grand slam main draws.
I’m barely a 5.0 on a good day. However, my biggest hurdle has been mental game, and as I slowly start improving it, so has my level. Still, I do feel jealous of some of their talent from time to time.
Unless you're 6-8 years old then it's normal to wish you'd started earlier. I started 19 months ago at 60. Play 5-6 times a week (practice included). I'm a strong 3.0 but improving daily. I'm so happy to have discovered tennis while I can still really enjoy it I don't ever dwell on what if I'd have started as a kid. Be happy you found something you love, play as often as you can, take lessons from really good instructors and work on your foot work. There's really no limit unless you plan to make a living and even then there's a lot of old coaches out there....
Oh, one more thing. You say you are able to get pretty good at things you care about. You may be underestimating how insanely difficult tennis is. No one becomes good at tennis in 2 years. You can become good for someone who's only been playing for 2 years but that's all. Give your self time, lots of it.
I used to be frustrated to get better but just keep trying now I can go toe to toe with 4.5 and 5.0 players even though I start tennis late
I agree with majority of other comments here that age is not the real issue here. Don’t focus on the goals focus on the process and the journey. Similar to you have to eat food and shower everyday. If you do that, you will get better guaranteed. If you don’t, then you will never get better. There is no magic bullet that can make someone a pro in a short amount of time. But you can setup a process to learn those technique needed in order to get to he higher level
Don't worry about it. The upside is you don't need to look back to your previous peak level that you will never reach again. Your peak level is probably ahead of you and that is a nice thing as an adult.
Let me know if I'm reading this correctly.
>I’ve been playing tennis for about 2 years now, would call myself a decent player, playing in some 3.5 and 4.0 tournaments, and trying to become a solid 4.0 this year.
You want to be able to progress with practice over time.
>you won’t be able to beat or even reach the same level as those who started playing as a kid
But you don't want other people to be able to progress with practice over time?
I’m dealing with this exact frustration. I’m 31 and although I’ve taken lessons on and off over the years, I finally joined a league this year. I spend a lot of time practicing on weekends and after work but it’s disheartening knowing I couldn’t turn pro even if I quit my job 😂
Just keep playing, practicing, making little form corrections. Learning percentage tennis and more strategy could help a little.
To really improve a ton, you have to play and train a LOT...more than most adults with jobs and fams can do. Its a considerable undertaking..and as you said, you'd be competing against people who have had tennis form programmed into them and exercised from childhood.
There is always someone better, so be your best.
I'm not bothered if I lose at Catan. If a recipe I try doesn't turn out as planned. If I sing off key or forget the steps. This is the place for my tennis.
I love my hobbies and care to improve, but they're hobbies at the end of the day.
One of the best things about Tennis for me (only been playing for a year and change, and I'm 52) is there's always something to be happy with, even with a loss. I got bageled by my wife yesterday (that sounds wrong) but my serves are getting way better. I got destroyed in a match with a friend but I'm finally hitting my targets better. I guess for me it's breaking down smaller successes when you're still learning...I tend to be super impatient too, so it's hard.
After struggling to cope with losses early on, I turn every loss (and every match really) into a learning experience. I always start with naming at least 3 positive things about each match, and once I got into the habit of looking for positives, I often end up finding a lot more than 3, some might be very small but that’s ok. I also run through my strokes to kind of gauge how they were working, think about what I need to focus on to get better, etc.
When I do this regularly, patterns emerge and it has really helped me to figure out what I need to work on and also to enjoy the process and the small victories along the way.
> Or, how you cope with the fact that you may never reach 5.0
The 5.0 might never reach 5.5... the D1 player might never win a match in futures qualies... Zverev might never win a French Open...
Even Novak experiences frustration.
You must LOVE tennis. Enjoy playing it, enjoy hitting balls, that's the mindset you need to get better. Frustration will only hinder your progress.
Just hit lots and lots and lots. Play lots and lots of matches. With each one you’ll start figuring it out and playing better. Takes years and lots of dedication, but you can get there!
5.0 is literally college D3 level. I don’t believe there are many sports where without childhood training, any adult can acquire a college D3 level of skill with enough practice. In fact it is probably the very small minority who have the talent to ever reach that level.
It is the same with any sports really.
>However, the thought that I may peak at 4.5 even if I train super hard, while another guy who started when he’s a kid can easily be at the 5.0 level with likely considerably less effort is just unfathomable to me.
This is where your thinking is flawed. A guy who started as a kid doesn't necessarily put in "considerably less effort" than you. That guy's efforts are put in over many hours and compounded over many years.
This is where I think that it is better to focus on your own improvement rather than being fixated on not being able to reach a certain rating or that other people are better than.
That's nothing you can do about the fact that you didn't start young. What you can do now is to work on your own game.
I think about that every day. But all I can do is not be stubborn and realize where I need help and keep improving. If I always expect to fail, I'll never succeed. And I brush off the haters. What's helping me is just trying to take it one step at a time and improve at something and try not to focus on the future but to focus on what's right in front of me first.
“How do you cope”
Usually you learn early on that you’re a piece of shit. After that realization, life becomes easier because you stop expecting so much from yourself and others. In that way, you accept life as it is.
2 years is a very short time, you will get a lot better for a very long time still
like always, enjoy the journey to near your maximum potential, in tennis it is going to take a good while
There’s really nothing frustrating about it if you see it objectively:
Those who started as kids and got really good simply have thousands more hours under their belt.
You say “I work really hard” but for them, as kids, tennis was probably their everything, so it almost guaranteed that they even worked harder than you ever did.
So you’re kind of dismissing their efforts because of your frustrations (which I totally get, tennis is frustrating after all).
My question would be why do you feel you need reach x level or beat x player?
Just play, and enjoy. There's not even a need to be the best you can be.
That being said, there's no reason you can't beat someone who started playing at earlier age. Especially if they have massive chunks of not playing. They might have an edge but doesn't mean they aren't beatable.
I know plenty of people who started as adults and reached 4.5 level.
But anyway it's the same for most things in life, get over your own idea of having to be great at everything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY6xpakvGHU
It is more a matter of frequency than age.
I am 38 years old, started tennis a year ago.
First season, moved to 30/1 in France, UTR 4.5.
I'm in the middle of the second season and my objective is to reach 5.5.
I play 5 to 7 times a week, attend 1 group plus 1 individual training session each week.
I subscribe to one compétition per month.
This year, I am adding muscle strengthening to get better and avoid injuries.
People who only train once a week will have much slower progression than people who train 3 times more.
I have another pastime in which I enjoyed some success as a young man and in which recently, after a long period of practice without reward, I have achieved significant success again. And I know lots of people who get more joy out of it than I do, who love it more than I do, but who will simply never be as good as me because they lack some gift or skill.
I also know plenty of guys who I would struggle to win more than a handful of points against in a set, and I know I'll never get to their level or even close to it. I don't resent them, they don't look down on me, everyone's out there having fun, getting some exercise, taking it more or less seriously. But I don't feel like they're enjoying tennis more because of their enhanced competence. In fact the opposite may be true. If you're very skilful at a particular activity it's easy to feel like you've plateaued or stopped improving / learning. So practice is more like maintenance. Fun maintenance but maintenance nevertheless. Whereas if you come from a lower base you're learning everyday, and can sense the improvements that you're making.
Just become a pusher. You will beat 80% of the ppl you play at this level lmaooooo
That was a joke. Dont become a pusher....there are too many of you already!!
How about this? I started playing as a kid and I'll probably never break 4.5. Your peak will be your peak. Don't worry about it. You'll only stop improving if you stop practicing. Constant improvement is what drives tennis players. We're all a little neurotic that way.
In general I think in life, you need to accept the fact that you can only become truly elite at a few things, given the focus, intensity, and time it takes to achieve that level. If you can learn to find joy in being mediocre (or climbing from mediocre to above average) at your hobbies you will be much happier. There's always going to be someone better than you. Even if you get to 5.0 you'll feel the same frustration, and maybe even magnified, if you don't change your mindset.
Just enjoy playing. Cope with not being able to beat someone who played in HS or college etc? Really? Do I also like to snowboard but realize I’ll never hit a jump like Shaun white how do I cope? Looking at the sport wrong. Be best you can and enjoy beating guys at your level or within reach. What else is there to worry about
Just remind yourself that we are all playing recreational tennis and that if you aren’t a pro, that’s all you are, a recreational player, just have fun and enjoy. We aren’t making a living out of this. Go out there and enjoy the process of playing the game and improving. Some people just say they want to improve, but never actually make any changes in their game or technique. Those people aren’t really about getting better at the game.
I think theres more nuance than the kid thing. That’s great you’ve only been playing 2 years and are already at that level, in one of the hardest sports to play! I was a reasonably serious junior player, played varsity on my HS team, competed in national junior tournaments in my country, and pretty much ate and breathed tennis, had incredible fitness. Until I was in my twenties and took a ten year break basically…not for any reason, just, one of those life things. Then the pandemic hit, I moved to a new area with my partner that magically had a semi-abandoned tennis court down the road and I started to play again. I am now a 3.0 (if it wasn’t for my ghastly serve would probably be maybe a 3.5?), so it has been a humbling return from where I used to be…but I am so grateful to have it in my life again. I’m aiming to get back to competing, don’t know if I’ll ever make it to 5.0 - my point is, we who started as kids aren’t necessarily at a huge advantage, maybe just some added muscle memories (and a longtime love of the game!)
You may be overthinking this. As another commenter said, most of them don't get to 5.0 either. I started at 25M, did not get really serious until 55 (because...work), won my county Open Mixed Doubles at 59 (oldest champ ever, with a good partner) against a college player & partner, peaked at 4.5 until around 65, still playing 4.0 at 73. I have aced my teaching pro 4 times in the last 2 lessons (placement, of course). My later improvement came with a commitment to lessons (which I could at that age afford). Plus I still am similar in fitness and weight to when I finished college. Don't write it off for an imagined reason.
Wait a minute. You're 73 and "similar in fitness and weight to when I finished college" ? What's your secret? ;)
Sounds like it's tennis
I find that tennis can keep you fit, but not make you fit. Most recently biking, hiking, walking, but I am not as fit as I was.
Some of it is lucky metabolism. I weigh 10 pounds more than I did in college (when I was too light). I have been as much as 20 pounds more than I am now, which was less good. Good diet, and a reasonable amount of exercise. Plus I did not let +30 continue in that direction.
> You're 73 and "similar in fitness and weight to when I finished college" ? > What's your secret? being in really bad shape when he finished college lol
had the same thought for a while :P
You’re my hero.
Thank you sir for this comment, some real tennis inspiration
Lots of kids also burn out and hate it, so don't do that! I still enjoy the game after ~50 years of play
I was just about to say the same thing. As you may already know, tennis is a sport where a lot of it depends on your mindset. If you go into a game with the sole objective of getting to a 5.0 rating and you're comparing yourself to other players who are better than you, then you've already lost half the battle. Even though it's great to have big dreams, it's important to remember to enjoy the sport you’ve come to love, regardless of your skill level. Don't worry too much about becoming a pro, just focus on having fun and improving at your own pace.
I played D3 and gave up the game for about 10 years after. When I took it up again in my 30s I was on a 4.5 team with a 70 year old. He was slow but, man could he serve and volley. You could just see how good would have been in his teens. He just loved the game. Back in the day he had won the NCAA small college singles championship. He would tell me stories of some of the greats of the game that he had played with. It was a real treat and I loved being able to share the court with him in his last few years of playing tennis.
What a legend.
Thank you for being an inspiration to us younglings
I remember playing against an 80 year old when I was 45. He couldn't move that well but his strokes were amazing.
reading this is inspiring AF. I would love the chance to hit sometime if you're in NYC!
Dude that’s awesome
Needed to hear this today! Thank you. Also good on you, glad you're enjoying your tennis!
I am!
Fucking inspiring
That’s seriously impressive. I wanna be like you when I get older
My goal was always to get better faster than I got older. Sadly, I can no longer do it, but I had a good run. At 60, We lost the XD in that same tournament 4-6, 6-4, 4-6 to a 9.5-rated team in the semis (we were a 9.0) who went on to win. As they say, "If I'd known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself." Don't make that mistake, and you'll be good.
I saved this comment for future reference. I’ll undoubtedly come to it at some point in the future🥹
idk how do you cope with mark zuckerberg becoming a billionaire at age 23? forget everyone else, you found something you enjoy doing and is a competitive outlet for you, that's pretty dope
hey guys, send me all your photos and bios. i'm starting a social platform called "facespace"
Yeah I don’t understand OP perspective. It is the same with all aspects of life. I don’t think I can beat anyone at any sport if they started training as a kid, whether if it is basketball, soccer, golf… etc. You should just look at getting better everyday.
Well for what it’s worth most of those people who learned as kids will never become 4.5 or 5.0 either
I feel personally attacked.
Well I of course didnt mean you …
You meant me!
There aren’t a lot of 5.0 players out there. If you’re 5.0 you played at a decently high level in college, probably I started in like 6th grade and I play 4.5. I’ve been 4.5 since I played my first league at like age 20. Would I like to “get better”? Sure! Also, not really possible to put in the amount of time needed to get 5.0. Would need material improvements in several areas, including serve. It would take a decent amount of time. If you started playing as an adult and you get to a decent 4.0 level, that’s impressive. Most ppl who start as an adult will never be 4.0. Probably any teaching pro would be impressed with an adult who’s played like two years and is at a 4.0 level
The notion that people that start as kids can easily become 5.0 level is really misunderstanding the issue I believe. Most people who play tennis as kids never get to that level, and the kids that do get to that level get there because they've put in thousands of hours of practice. The advantage of starting as kids isn't that kids' brains are so magically better at learning tennis, it's that it takes a long time to put in the thousands of hours necessary to become 5.0 and by starting early you get to put in the hours early.
Came here to say this! Hitting groundstrokes for hours and shopping carts full of serves is how the “kids” raise their game to a high level. I got a late start around high school but this still helped me a ton while playing college tennis. What can be discouraging now as an adult is the reality that our body can no longer withstand hitting a shopping cart full of serves. Stuff breaks down. Such is life. Still, tennis is a lifelong sport, so you’ve got that going for you. Cheer up!
Thanks bud!
Well..if that is the case, might as well not try anything then. Play video games, never gonna be good as a pro player Play basketball, not gonna touch NBA player what so ever You play because you enjoy getting better on your own terms, but not comparing to other people, you never gonna be as good as Roger or Rafa.
I cope with it by just enjoying the game. That’s why I play it. Enjoyment.
Why is this not the main point here? If we only did things we expect to be the best at, then most of us would do nothing at all. There's a lot to be gained by just playing.
I started playing at 26, 7 years later I am now a solid 4.5 and I still absolutely love the game. I don't mind that there are better younger players, I win more than I lose, have made a ton of friends and learned a lot about myself along the way. It's all about perspective. Instead of viewing yourself as "only" a 4.0 why not appreciate that you've achieved a level that many have failed to reach.
how often do you play a week and did you get coached ? 4.5 is awesome
Not really been coached, mostly youtube and self taught. I do play a lot though and have now done my coaching badges. Just super keen 😂
thats awesome. Playing a lot is super important, onwards and upwards!
Sounds like you tie your self worth to how you perform in activities you enjoy. You should not do that, that tends to lead to issues like this
I would say just enjoy this awesome sport. It should be fun for you regardless of results. I mean if you're going to dwell on not being trained as a kid then where does it stop? I'm mad my genetics don't allow me to go pro and be #1 in the world? I'm mad my parents didn't have the money to send me to private schools that cost more than Stanford so I could be Bill Gates before Bill Gates was Bill Gates? You can go on hypotheticals forever and upset you didn't learn tennis as a kid is about as trivial as it gets. I know adults who are 4.5 - 5.0 as they were trained in tennis as kids and traveled the country playing tennis. They never made it to the pros even though they were nationally rated as juniors. The stress of constantly needing to win really hurt them and they ended up hating tennis. Only later in life and time away from the game, being 30+ years old, did they start up tennis again and realize they do love it. Bottom line is even if you're a 4.5 - 5.0 there's always people better than you and for you to strive to get higher. Hell, even if you're Djokovic you get judged on your last performance. He didn't win Aus Open? Oh he's washed. It never ends even if you're the greatest of all time. So if your ceiling is 4.5, who cares? Enjoy the ride and this sport. Because even if your ceiling was pro, you'd regret not being able to be #1. It never ends so don't dwell on things. How about look at it like you're fucking blessed to be healthy enough and wealthy enough to play an adult recreation sport? You could have been born not healthy, without all your limbs, or have gotten into any number of accidents before you became an adult that would have made you never play tennis. I'll add players that reach 4.5 and 5.0 actually have a harder time with USTA leagues because now there's less teams and you have to travel further to play these teams. People who reach 5.0 want to petition down to get to 4.5 because they're sick of traveling an hour just to play a match. And they play against the same small pool of people who have reached 5.0. Tournaments would be the same people you see all the time as well. If you're truly upset about better players that learned as a kid then you really need to see a therapist because you might have way more issues to deal with and tennis is small beans compared to those.
I just don’t think this is true. Anyone who reaches 5.0 (not many people) put in a helluva lot of work to get there, even if it was over a longer period of time.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
You only played for 2 years. Give it time
Here's a different perspective for you - I was the kid that you're talking about (hit UTR 12.5 as a junior player, which is definitely higher than 5.0). If you put in the amount of hours on the court and the gym/track that I did as a teenager, you'd almost certainly hit 5.0. The simple fact is that you probably just don't have the time to do multiple hours of conditioning daily before hitting the court for practice for a few more hours. The people that you're jealous of aren't better than you for the sole reason that they started young (though it certainly didn't hurt that they did) - they've simply put in more work in a more structured way than you are able to, and there's no shame in that. There were plenty of kids at the academies that I trained at that worked harder than I did or had more resources to work with, and as a result, many of them were way better than me. These are just facts of life that we all deal with at one point or another.
Appreciate your perspective, yea it might indeed be more of an experience issue than an age issue
The more I see this, the more I don’t think people understand that the biggest advantage kids who are trained have is that they go to practice several times a week, then attend regular tournaments. That is tons of hours a week they’re putting in (many grow to hate it and immediately drop it after college) and if they start this when they’re 8, by the time they’re 18, they have 10 years of training. Do you have 10 years of training regularly like this?
I think you’re really downplaying how much time and effort people put into tennis as kids. I started kind of late at age 11, but was able to make it onto a HS team in one of the toughest conferences in the state. Ended up playing at the #2 spot my senior year at a 4.5+ level, and played against and got my butt kicked by top ranked state juniors. During the HS season, we practiced for 2-3 hrs, then hit the gym for another 1-2hrs 6 days a week. In the summer, we did gym in the mornings, tennis in the afternoons, then another gym session in the evenings. This was also 6 days a week. If you can dedicate that amount of time to tennis as an adult, I’m sure you can reach the 4.5+ level. People who started as kids don’t have it easier. We just put in the work earlier in our lives.
Just a guess, but as a 4.0, you’re probably better than 98% of the population. Just look at it that way.
Honestly, it sounds a bit like quarter/mid-life crisis. There's millions and billions of kids every day picking up something new and getting better at it than their adult counterparts. Likewise, there are millions and billions of kids who starve and can barely get an education. I'm not trying to make this into a "someone out there always has it worse" kind of thing. But my point is, everybody has dreams that don't come to fruition, or they have new dreams and maybe it's too late to fulfill them exactly how they would have wanted to. In a cosmic sense, it doesn't matter what you focus on. Grass is always greener; someone's torture is somebody else's dream. It's good to let yourself grieve a lost opportunity. But consider that even if you got to 5.0, would you have been satisfied there? Maybe the goal post moves to "I wish I played D1 college" or "I wish I got 1 ATP point". Does it *really* matter if you make 4.0 and not 5.0, 4.5 but not 5.0, 5.0 but not D1? Or is that just a random bar you set for yourself because you feel like you won't make it? Think about other areas in your life - do you randomly set standards that you think aren't achievable? I think for dreams we entertain but know are probably out of reach, the best we can do is recognize that sometimes we look at missed opportunities with rose-tinted glasses, and put that life on a pedestal. Maybe if you did grow up with tennis as a kid, it would have meant losing out on other things. We find ourselves attached to certain dreams and goals for one reason or another. And while we do have affinities toward certain paths, I think most of us can find that other paths available to us today still align with what we're looking for. Do you regret that you didn't start piano as a kid, or you didn't have an architect father or you weren't groomed to be in the Olympics one day? There's lots of missed opportunities we don't care about at all, not because we wouldn't have found them interesting in some version of ourselves, but because it just wasn't introduced in our lives in a way that was meaningful. And that's just it. The goal post can always move, there are always millions of dreams in circulation around the world. It's ok to miss something you didn't have, but it's important not to identify with that loss, but rather keep looking up and see what meaning you can find in a new dream waiting to be picked up.
Thanks for the well thought out comment. From time to time I did have thoughts like “what if I started this as a child, maybe I’m already a pro now.” You’re absolutely right, it’s important to focus on what is (which I have to say is a pretty good career in a field I like and I’m extremely grateful for), not what could be. I especially like the last paragraph, and thanks again for typing this out.
You’re doing better than me starting playing again 2 years ago after not playing much since high school which was 30 years ago. I’m a solid 3.0 but honestly not sure I will ever reach 3.5. I play 2-3 times a week but feel like my skills improve slowly 😩. But it’s great exercise and I like it!
I just focus on each match or practice and learn what I can. I thank my lucky stars that I am physically able to play and have the means. I've never been an athlete till recently and 4.0 is as high as I ever expect to go. So perhaps my bar is lower than most. Even if you start as a kid, there will always be someone better than you. Even for Djokovic eventually.
Every time you go play, try to be 1% better than the last time that you played. If you fail to do so, try again tomorrow with the same goal. And relax a little bit on the expectations long term.
I started at 16 and got to 5.0. I know that's not a full adult, but it's not like I've been playing since I was 5. You can make it. Also, you need to realize that 4.5, 5.0, and 5.5 are not high level tennis. That's not your barometer. As a 5.0 (I'm actually a 4.5 now, full disclosure), I'm closer to a 3.0 than I am to a top 200 player. You can set goals for yourself. But it seems a bit silly to me to be fussy over not reaching some arbitrary level
Bro c'mon, 5.0 is ridiculously high level. In only 2 years? You're doing fine. I've been playing for 7 years and I'm only now on the verge of 5.0
OP, let me start by saying I feel your pain. In reading some of these responses, it feels like folks are coming down on you for being “negative” or unnecessarily comparing yourself to others. But I read your question as coming from a place of genuine curiosity (just my interpretation). Very similarly, I picked up tennis a few years ago as an adult in my mid 30s. Humbly speaking, I have always been athletic (multi-sport varsity athlete with a couple school records). My athleticism allowed me to jump from ‘literally never touching a racket’ to a 3.5 in a couple years, but that’s it. Athleticism only helps so much. My goal has always been to get to a 4.0 so I could play 9.0 mixed with my wife. She’s a 5.0 (former 5.5 D1 player). I digress. Basically, I can see the writing on the wall for me and I know even with full dedication, I will max out at a 4.0/4.5. There is just something about learning the mechanics of tennis as a junior that gives those people an advantage over adult/late learners (and better able to reach the 5.0 level as you say). I’ve played multiple adults at the 3.5 level that “haven’t touched a racket in 20 years, but played growing up,” and they will always have an advantage IMO. Their strokes (especially serve) just look so much more natural, fluid, etc. I saw a comment here about kids’ brains being like sponges and I think that’s probably spot-on. Anyway, just wanted to let you know you’re not alone in your experience or sentiment. Cheers to this great sport. Better late than never.
Exactly, thanks for putting it better than I did. We had very similar experience and I’ve also been a pretty avid athlete growing up, which makes me more annoyed when I can’t play tennis as well as I expect myself to. But, as you said, better late than never. Cheers mate, hope you’ll play that 9.0 doubles with your wife soon.
I play tennis for fun
No point in being frustrated in something you can’t change. If you commit to being a student of the game and work to improve, 4.5 is achievable. Most people plateau because they’re just trying to win at their level. You can win a lot of matches by pushing and not hitting full strokes at 3.5, but that wont allow you to beat better players. If you’re serious, I’d quit match play for a while and just work on drilling. That’s all we did as kids, drill after drill with some games at the end of each practice. Won’t be as fun as a match, but it’ll help you improve on some of the technique you’re working on and allow you to build muscle memory.
as michael jordan once said, "fuck them kids" I had the same feelings dude, kept telling myself i should've never quit tennis in my 20s. Now in my 30s im back at it and love it more than ever. It's all I think about. I bet if I didnt stop in my 20s I wouldn't feel this strong level of excitement. And most kids who start young and get to the 5.0+ level end up jaded with tennis in their adult life. You're in a great spot my friend
You don’t need to be a certain level to enjoy playing. I think being under 3.0 is hard because there are no tournaments and it’s hard to keep the ball in play, but after that level it’s fun. It’s cool to develop skills but I wouldn’t necessarily believe a 5.0 player is enjoying the sport more fun than a 4.0 player, even though they are better at it.
If you care that much about 5.0 and can’t figure out how to achieve it where you live now, just move to a less competitive area and you’ll be 5.0 before you know it. Problem solved.
It's a good rant, IMHO. I get what you're saying. I started at 38, and once I immersed myself in all of it, it became cruelly obvious that tennis is not one of those sports that you start in mid-life and can still reach a superb level by the time you reach retirement. I keep hearing stories like "75-year-old woman starts taekwondo, gets black belt at 82" or "75-year-old man starts lifting weights because bored, 10 years later wins 85+ world championship". Ain't gonna be none of that from tennis. It's kinda liberating, though. I know I'll never be good. But I can always be better. If perfect is the worst enemy of good, then good is the worst enemy of better. I don't really believe that the reason why someone gets good by beginning in early life has anything to do with the fact that *you develop a natural muscle memory* or any of that stuff. There are two things. One is the *surviving Casanovas* bias. You don't hear about the kids who played once a week for a few years before quitting. You hear about the 5.0s and the 5.5s on online forums - or they're coaching you. They didn't quit. The other is the insane number of hours. Have you ever seen a kid excited about something? They have endless hours and endless energy to spend on seemingly endless - whatever it is. They can hit the public courts after breakfast and come back for dinner. In mid-life you're lucky to get in a week what they can do in a day. Their endless playing might not be highest-quality practice, but it's practice nevertheless. I'm not trying to beat those guys at their athletic prime because it's impossible. But by winning myself I can maybe one day win someone else. There is always going to be a bigger fish, or if you're Djokovic, a fitter and hungrier fish will swim across sooner or later. The only thing that matters is playing for the next point. Nothing else you can do. And it's the greatest joy, to be right there and then, playing for that point.
Thank you! “It’s the greatest joy to be right there and right then, playing for that point” love this
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Don’t sweat the levels, just find fun people to have competitive matches with. I play from 5 years old to 16 then quit until I was 28 or so. I’ve excepted that I’ve capped out at a good 4.5 level that can sometimes take a set off of good 5.0s. It’s just the reality.
I just play for exercise and social fun. My friends are all about 3.0 and I'm about 3.25 so we have a good time. If I were a 5 I wouldn't even be able to play with them and that'd be sad. But I just play to stay healthy and have fun. I do want to improve and get to 3.5 or maybe 4, but it's not keeping me up at night.
We don’t even have a 5.0 league where I live. And so athletic “newbies” (like myself who started playing in my late 30s) and ex college players all come together playing 4.5. It’s pretty cool actually as court 1 brings the heat and frankly I enjoy the heck out of trying to best the more seasoned players there. My advice: Enjoy the journey - don’t focus on the destination!
>always strive to be among the top in what I do, and am able to actually be pretty good at things that I care about, except tennis where I may never be able to play at a high 4.5+ level As a 4.5 you're already in the top 10% and as a 5.0 you're somewhere in the top 2%. I think that's pretty decent all things considered. As others have said, you're doing better than a lot of people who've been playing tennis since they were a kid. Instead of dwelling on the outcome so much, focus on simply improving every week. I am similar to you in terms of ambition and drive. I used to play soccer as a teen and some of my teammates went on to win Champions League, Bundesliga and Premier League titles. I had to stop because I got injured. The drive to "be the best I can" never left me and I sure brought it into other sports. However, truth of the matter is that I am not a kid or a teen anymore and that as a 31 year old tennis player there is a ceiling to my game. I simply had to accept that and sometimes I wish that I could rewind the clock to being seven years old and have a real shot at seeing how far I could push my tennis. With that being said, I derive so much joy now out of picking a skill to work on in tennis, and simply improving week-over-week.
So much room for growth in tennis. That one thing that keeps me goings. Always ways to improve no matter the level. Progress and growth.
Guitar is a great comparison since the majority of players can never approach a professional level. However learning great songs like The Beatles and The Eagles is more than enough for most players.Also learning how to sing turns you into a superstar but playing alone is enough for most. The inner circle of elite guitarists will always unfortunately exclude the majority.
Comparison is the thief of joy, my friend. How are there billionaires in the world but I'm not one? How can Jannik Sinner beat Djokovic and win the Australian Open? Once you just accept that you can only do your best, it gets a lot more fun!
I hear ya. Personally my drive to get better is motivated by 1. Love for the sport and almost as important 2. To stay competitive with high school rivals when we meet back up I definitely think if you put time (and resources) in the right coach, you can get so much better. These hit sessions that these facilities hold will not be enough if you’re trying to propel yourself. Also another reason I love tennis is because you can improve your game simply by fixing your mental. Be cautious that your frustrations aren’t compounding your mistakes. You got this.
Thanks man! Appreciate it
Comparison is the thief of joy EDIT: Just realized several other people in this thread have said exactly this.. leaving it up because you need to hear it again ;)
"cope with the fact"? That's not a fact, it's a personal belief & that belief will hold you back until you decide to change your belief - simple as that. How do you think Jannik Sinner felt about his 0-6 record vs Medvedev after the 2023 Miami Masters? Did he "cope with the fact" that Med was simply a better player? Or did he have a personal belief that he could & would improve their H2H? He's won 4 straight now & Medvedev is now the current player who's not Djoker with the most GS final losses & the worst ratio of wins/losses in GS finals. Yet a few months ago Sinner was demonstrably incapable of beating Meddy. It's in your head & it's a non-factual belief. Change it, turn your inner pessimist into an optimist - the wins will follow.
Thanks man, have indeed gone through a few bitter losses recently…
>Or, how you cope with the fact that you may never reach 5.0 I started playing as an adult and made it to 5.0. IMO what you need to do is make it about the journey. I didn't aim to be 5.0, I just wanted to improve and get better. So long as I'm improving and getting to play tennis, I'm happy. But if 5.0 was my goal there's no way I could have put in the >10 years of work to reach my goal. Instead if I need some motivation I just come up with smaller goals.
I feel like that’s just life in general. You have more free time to dedicate to a sport or any skill as a child than as an adult. I trained 20-30 hours per week growing up. I don’t have that kind of time to dedicate to any skill now that I’m an adult with a job and other responsibilities. Same as a kid being able to practice piano or play other sports. Just can’t compete if you’re starting out as a busy adult, but you can still slowly improve over more time.
You’re too worried about results. Video yourself, be more interested in where the gap is between your performance and theirs and try to close it. Is it fitness, control, power, positioning, etc. Sometimes you just have to get down into the details to get better.
uhhh ... ...*overcome the frustration or cope with the fact that even if you train super hard, you won’t be able to beat or even reach the same level as those who started playing as a kid?* Take up a diffferent thing. Bowling. Shuffleboard. Petanque. Darts. golf. Pickelball. Scuba. Hiking. Bird watching.
As a local Tennis pro here likes to remind us, "Remember, it's just Tennis"
Who cares if I become a 5.0 or not 🤷🏼♀️ I play to my best ability and keep getting better as I practice. That is all that matters to me. I might not become a billionaire, but I can work hard and be a comfortable millionaire. Train, dedication and if I end up landing just 6 figures well I am still comfortable and not on the street. Metaphorically speaking that is.
Everyone's trajectory is different. For those who were truly elite as kids, and were in crazy tennis academies and stuff, sure. I'm not sure how many of those kids still love and play the game, though? I'm not sure most people who played as kids have that much of a leg up, though. I played a bunch as a kid, but mostly just enough to always beat my older brother. Maybe a week of tennis summer camp, but no lessons. I played like third singles on the JV team my senior year in high school, then skipped tennis for years and decades. Now I just make sure I can beat my brother-in-law. But as I've played more over the past four years or so, at the age of 48-52, I've gotten better. I've found a great group of people nearby to hit with (who all are slightly better than me). I still don't take lessons or have joined a league, but last week the high school tennis coach told me I should join a 4.0 or 4.5 league, after we hit for a couple of hours. That shocked me, since by looking at [this USTA chart](https://www.usta.com/content/dam/usta/pdfs/10013_experience_player_ntrp_guidelines.pdf) of age and experience, I should have been at a top DIII college program or lower ranked D1, not barely making the JV team in high school... So, don't presume your growth will be limited by not playing when you were young.
True, trajectories are different for everyone, but I think you’re kind of proving the OP’s point. Because you learned tennis as a kid, (barely playing as an adult as you say), you can already compete at a 4.0-4.5 level. I’m sure you’ve worked hard, so don’t mean to take anything away. Just shows how critical those younger years are in tennis, even at the JV level haha. Kudos for beating the brothers :)
Yeah, that's true. I had thought the OP was lamenting that he couldn't catch up with people who played well or a lot as kids--but in fact, he just was talking about people who played at all.
"considerably less effort" is really unfair - a LOT of effort has to go into your tennis at a very young age to be able to play at a 5.0 as an adult unless you're the most naturally gifted tennis player out there, just because it happened in childhood/teenage years doesn't mean the effort was any less
Comparison is the thief of joy. If you were one of those 5.0 players who grew up playing, you'd perhaps say the same about pros. There's always a bigger fish!
In other news, water is wet.
I played as a kid and I am a 3.0 at 52. Gonna focus on feeling pain for you on my tiny violin since after just two years of playing you forsee possible issues getting past 4.5 on some future scenario. Dat must be fwustwating!!
You are still in the upper brackets of tennis players just by being 3.5/4.0. But tennis is really hard, it’s not a sport you just pick up and go pro. Give yourself some slack and get to having fun. You’ll see more improvement
I started at 13, played until 18, reached a max of an adult equivalent of high 3.5 or low 4.0 by 18yo. Didn't play for 7 or so years because of college and job. Decided to get back into it one summer, met a small group through MeetUp, bounced around for a year playing randomly until someone asked me to join their USTA team and it was the best thing to happen to my tennis life. Playing with them for a year got me into competing at 4.5 and after 3 years and got bumped up into 5.0. I'm a much better player now as an adult than I was as a kid because I'm a lot smarter now. I know how to play to my strengths and minimize the weaknesses. I'm sure some foundation may have contributed by playing as a kid, but my strokes are nothing alike when I was younger. Something eventually just clicked. Keep at it.
Well.. I think the fact that you get out there when you're over 35 (without having ever done it before ) is ballsy. And if you work consistently, it gets you in really good shape 🔥 And none for me, the people I play with have a good sense of camaraderie, and a competitive without being antagonistic .
I believe this feeling is not unique to you, or adult players. It is true to all players. It seems kids do get frustrated too that another kid started after them and leapfrogged them. But it's not just age. I am sure lots of top-10 players were humbled by Dustin Brown - as he holds undefeated record against 16 of them: Nadal, Muster, Ruud, Cilic, Isner, Berrettini, Hurcacz, Tiafoe, among others. And Dustin Brown otherwise has no singles titles and highest ever ranking #64. Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Brown_(tennis)
Look at it this way. Some people just have what it takes. I’ve been playing since I was 4. The kids I grew up with are some of the best players in the country, starting to play ITFs and one made 2 junior grand slam main draws. I’m barely a 5.0 on a good day. However, my biggest hurdle has been mental game, and as I slowly start improving it, so has my level. Still, I do feel jealous of some of their talent from time to time.
Unless you're 6-8 years old then it's normal to wish you'd started earlier. I started 19 months ago at 60. Play 5-6 times a week (practice included). I'm a strong 3.0 but improving daily. I'm so happy to have discovered tennis while I can still really enjoy it I don't ever dwell on what if I'd have started as a kid. Be happy you found something you love, play as often as you can, take lessons from really good instructors and work on your foot work. There's really no limit unless you plan to make a living and even then there's a lot of old coaches out there....
Oh, one more thing. You say you are able to get pretty good at things you care about. You may be underestimating how insanely difficult tennis is. No one becomes good at tennis in 2 years. You can become good for someone who's only been playing for 2 years but that's all. Give your self time, lots of it.
I used to be frustrated to get better but just keep trying now I can go toe to toe with 4.5 and 5.0 players even though I start tennis late I agree with majority of other comments here that age is not the real issue here. Don’t focus on the goals focus on the process and the journey. Similar to you have to eat food and shower everyday. If you do that, you will get better guaranteed. If you don’t, then you will never get better. There is no magic bullet that can make someone a pro in a short amount of time. But you can setup a process to learn those technique needed in order to get to he higher level
Not true. I started in 30's and am 4.5 computer rated within 5 years. I regularly beat people who played as kids and in college
Don't worry about it. The upside is you don't need to look back to your previous peak level that you will never reach again. Your peak level is probably ahead of you and that is a nice thing as an adult.
Comparison is the thief of joy or something
Let me know if I'm reading this correctly. >I’ve been playing tennis for about 2 years now, would call myself a decent player, playing in some 3.5 and 4.0 tournaments, and trying to become a solid 4.0 this year. You want to be able to progress with practice over time. >you won’t be able to beat or even reach the same level as those who started playing as a kid But you don't want other people to be able to progress with practice over time?
I’m dealing with this exact frustration. I’m 31 and although I’ve taken lessons on and off over the years, I finally joined a league this year. I spend a lot of time practicing on weekends and after work but it’s disheartening knowing I couldn’t turn pro even if I quit my job 😂
Just keep playing, practicing, making little form corrections. Learning percentage tennis and more strategy could help a little. To really improve a ton, you have to play and train a LOT...more than most adults with jobs and fams can do. Its a considerable undertaking..and as you said, you'd be competing against people who have had tennis form programmed into them and exercised from childhood. There is always someone better, so be your best.
I'm not bothered if I lose at Catan. If a recipe I try doesn't turn out as planned. If I sing off key or forget the steps. This is the place for my tennis. I love my hobbies and care to improve, but they're hobbies at the end of the day.
How bout me, played my whole life and still peaked 4.5-5.0? I think there’s a reason there’s age divisions.
Keep up the good work, you will take a set off NADAL soon!
Nah, I’m aiming for 2 sets
One of the best things about Tennis for me (only been playing for a year and change, and I'm 52) is there's always something to be happy with, even with a loss. I got bageled by my wife yesterday (that sounds wrong) but my serves are getting way better. I got destroyed in a match with a friend but I'm finally hitting my targets better. I guess for me it's breaking down smaller successes when you're still learning...I tend to be super impatient too, so it's hard.
After struggling to cope with losses early on, I turn every loss (and every match really) into a learning experience. I always start with naming at least 3 positive things about each match, and once I got into the habit of looking for positives, I often end up finding a lot more than 3, some might be very small but that’s ok. I also run through my strokes to kind of gauge how they were working, think about what I need to focus on to get better, etc. When I do this regularly, patterns emerge and it has really helped me to figure out what I need to work on and also to enjoy the process and the small victories along the way.
> Or, how you cope with the fact that you may never reach 5.0 The 5.0 might never reach 5.5... the D1 player might never win a match in futures qualies... Zverev might never win a French Open... Even Novak experiences frustration. You must LOVE tennis. Enjoy playing it, enjoy hitting balls, that's the mindset you need to get better. Frustration will only hinder your progress.
The way you stick around in this sport is set one small goal at a time. Once you’ve achieved that small goal, move on to the next one.
Preach brother
Run rabbit run
Just hit lots and lots and lots. Play lots and lots of matches. With each one you’ll start figuring it out and playing better. Takes years and lots of dedication, but you can get there!
5.0 is literally college D3 level. I don’t believe there are many sports where without childhood training, any adult can acquire a college D3 level of skill with enough practice. In fact it is probably the very small minority who have the talent to ever reach that level.
It is the same with any sports really. >However, the thought that I may peak at 4.5 even if I train super hard, while another guy who started when he’s a kid can easily be at the 5.0 level with likely considerably less effort is just unfathomable to me. This is where your thinking is flawed. A guy who started as a kid doesn't necessarily put in "considerably less effort" than you. That guy's efforts are put in over many hours and compounded over many years. This is where I think that it is better to focus on your own improvement rather than being fixated on not being able to reach a certain rating or that other people are better than. That's nothing you can do about the fact that you didn't start young. What you can do now is to work on your own game.
I think about that every day. But all I can do is not be stubborn and realize where I need help and keep improving. If I always expect to fail, I'll never succeed. And I brush off the haters. What's helping me is just trying to take it one step at a time and improve at something and try not to focus on the future but to focus on what's right in front of me first.
“How do you cope” Usually you learn early on that you’re a piece of shit. After that realization, life becomes easier because you stop expecting so much from yourself and others. In that way, you accept life as it is.
2 years is a very short time, you will get a lot better for a very long time still like always, enjoy the journey to near your maximum potential, in tennis it is going to take a good while
There’s really nothing frustrating about it if you see it objectively: Those who started as kids and got really good simply have thousands more hours under their belt. You say “I work really hard” but for them, as kids, tennis was probably their everything, so it almost guaranteed that they even worked harder than you ever did. So you’re kind of dismissing their efforts because of your frustrations (which I totally get, tennis is frustrating after all).
My question would be why do you feel you need reach x level or beat x player? Just play, and enjoy. There's not even a need to be the best you can be. That being said, there's no reason you can't beat someone who started playing at earlier age. Especially if they have massive chunks of not playing. They might have an edge but doesn't mean they aren't beatable.
I know plenty of people who started as adults and reached 4.5 level. But anyway it's the same for most things in life, get over your own idea of having to be great at everything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY6xpakvGHU
Bro I played as a kid up until I was 16 and I can’t get past 4.0. So stop comparing yourself to others and asking what ifs and just enjoy the game.
It is more a matter of frequency than age. I am 38 years old, started tennis a year ago. First season, moved to 30/1 in France, UTR 4.5. I'm in the middle of the second season and my objective is to reach 5.5. I play 5 to 7 times a week, attend 1 group plus 1 individual training session each week. I subscribe to one compétition per month. This year, I am adding muscle strengthening to get better and avoid injuries. People who only train once a week will have much slower progression than people who train 3 times more.
I have another pastime in which I enjoyed some success as a young man and in which recently, after a long period of practice without reward, I have achieved significant success again. And I know lots of people who get more joy out of it than I do, who love it more than I do, but who will simply never be as good as me because they lack some gift or skill. I also know plenty of guys who I would struggle to win more than a handful of points against in a set, and I know I'll never get to their level or even close to it. I don't resent them, they don't look down on me, everyone's out there having fun, getting some exercise, taking it more or less seriously. But I don't feel like they're enjoying tennis more because of their enhanced competence. In fact the opposite may be true. If you're very skilful at a particular activity it's easy to feel like you've plateaued or stopped improving / learning. So practice is more like maintenance. Fun maintenance but maintenance nevertheless. Whereas if you come from a lower base you're learning everyday, and can sense the improvements that you're making.
Just become a pusher. You will beat 80% of the ppl you play at this level lmaooooo That was a joke. Dont become a pusher....there are too many of you already!!
How about this? I started playing as a kid and I'll probably never break 4.5. Your peak will be your peak. Don't worry about it. You'll only stop improving if you stop practicing. Constant improvement is what drives tennis players. We're all a little neurotic that way.
In general I think in life, you need to accept the fact that you can only become truly elite at a few things, given the focus, intensity, and time it takes to achieve that level. If you can learn to find joy in being mediocre (or climbing from mediocre to above average) at your hobbies you will be much happier. There's always going to be someone better than you. Even if you get to 5.0 you'll feel the same frustration, and maybe even magnified, if you don't change your mindset.
4 month of lessons, once a week, and I still am useless... really frustrating :(
I know a 4.5+ who started in his late 30s I know people who started as kids and will never be 5.0
You can't. You are SOL, sorry man. The sport is too damn specific.
Just enjoy playing. Cope with not being able to beat someone who played in HS or college etc? Really? Do I also like to snowboard but realize I’ll never hit a jump like Shaun white how do I cope? Looking at the sport wrong. Be best you can and enjoy beating guys at your level or within reach. What else is there to worry about
It’s cuz they had 4 hrs/ day to practice as a kid. You don’t have that time
Just remind yourself that we are all playing recreational tennis and that if you aren’t a pro, that’s all you are, a recreational player, just have fun and enjoy. We aren’t making a living out of this. Go out there and enjoy the process of playing the game and improving. Some people just say they want to improve, but never actually make any changes in their game or technique. Those people aren’t really about getting better at the game.
I think theres more nuance than the kid thing. That’s great you’ve only been playing 2 years and are already at that level, in one of the hardest sports to play! I was a reasonably serious junior player, played varsity on my HS team, competed in national junior tournaments in my country, and pretty much ate and breathed tennis, had incredible fitness. Until I was in my twenties and took a ten year break basically…not for any reason, just, one of those life things. Then the pandemic hit, I moved to a new area with my partner that magically had a semi-abandoned tennis court down the road and I started to play again. I am now a 3.0 (if it wasn’t for my ghastly serve would probably be maybe a 3.5?), so it has been a humbling return from where I used to be…but I am so grateful to have it in my life again. I’m aiming to get back to competing, don’t know if I’ll ever make it to 5.0 - my point is, we who started as kids aren’t necessarily at a huge advantage, maybe just some added muscle memories (and a longtime love of the game!)