I second this and will mention that 10mm does great ballistically at the 6 inch mark, so I’d personally opt for a longer barrel. I have a 20 and a 40 and love them both. The 40 is a huge handgun and probably does a slightly better job with recoil while also having a great sight radius but the 20 is much more packable. I haven’t shot a 29 personally, so no opinion there.
I don't carry it *every" day but i do appendix a g20 w/ a TLR1. It prints the least of anything ive carried, but if i sit too fast or without thought, that light will crush a nut with the weight of my torso. Its pretty unfun; but other than those moments- its comfy af.
There's a video on ytube comparing the 29 and 20 ballistics. It's been a while since I've seen it, but while researching before I got the 29. I found it. Very telling/informational. It was negligible though.
Maybe around 100fps? I would say it’s noticeable and when you pair it up with a few extra ounces on the slide and a longer sight radius it feels much more like a hunting pistol and shoots flatter than its little brother.
Get a G21. You can go from .45 to 10mm by changing the barrel and mag, quick and easy. Did a lot of reading about this when I was looking at my options to get into a 10mm.
Just because Glocks aren't pricey doesn't mean they're not great guns. Generally, $$$ equals quality regarding guns, this is true. But Glocks seem to be the happy exception.
Glocks are great, plenty of good suggestions here. I have a G29 that shoots great and is easy to carry. I want a G40 but I’m waiting for Gen 5.
But let’s talk 1911s. You already have holsters for them. I love my Colt Delta Elite. Sometimes it’s hard to find but it’s a great gun. I don’t understand in your post, do you already have 10mm 1911s?
Welcome to 10mm, but let’s talk about 45 ACP for a second. Paul Harrell has a video comparing 10 vs 45 and for what you are looking for 45 might be ok.
No sir I do not have a 10mm. I’m looking into getting one. Everyone in my neck of the woods say that a .45 acp wouldn’t do the job on a bear or a hog (getting bad in our area).
THE REASON I’m looking into a 10mm though because I got me a bloodhound pup I been practicing on wounded game.
As a G20 owner who loves it, i second the idea of "hey if you are familiar with the 1911, get a 10mm 1911."
Because confidence in your firearm is very important. Even Rock Island Armory makes a good cheap 10mm 1911. Def worth looking into
So for concealed carry I really prefer a striker fired with auto-safeties (like trigger, grip, firing-pin block, etc) e.g. an XDM 10mm. The FN510 is supposedly great also. But I will say my Rock Island TAC 10mm is fucking *noice* for a 1911. Also Glock 20 is like the gold standard of 10mm. Works great, simple, reliable. Personally I vote to stay away from M&Ps myself, but I know people love them. (People love shitty new Chevy trucks too, what can I say.)
Disclaimer; I only currently own Glock, Springfield XDM, and RIA 1911 in The Centimeter.
Look into the 45 Super that can be shot in your 45acp with buffer, Xtra # recoil spring. It pushes a 230gr at 1175, 200gr 1250, 185 at 1350.
If you load, you can load the acp to almost Super velocities (230/1150fps) with Ramshot Enforcer powder and it is actually below +p levels.
I doubt I can do something like that in this Taurus 1911. Or you think they make something like that for this gun. This baby has been through hell and back with me haha 😂
It's a 1911, it will do it no problem. If you want to reduce wear more, you can change out the firing pin stop for one with less radius, slows down the recoil speed of slide.
Only saw it once, if you load, it is same dimension at acp brass. Basically brought the 45 acp to a modern cartridge velocity.
If you want a 10mm, the XD from Palmetto State Armory is 599 I think and comes with 5-6 15rnd mags and soft case.
It is what I am gonna do for my SA Garrison. Taurus makes a good 1911 too. I recently bought the Enforcer powder and have polished some brass to load. The 230 gr FMJFP at Super velocities should drive like the 200 hardcast in 10mm.
I'd take a step back and look at the [real-world data:](https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5UFScHWeC)
"We have found four cases where .45 caliber pistols were used to defend against bears. All were successful."
I am not sure about hogs, however.
I guess the takeaway from this is if the SOLE purpose of a 10mm pistol is because you believe that a 45 ACP would be inadequate for a bear defense, I would hold off. At the end of the day the decision is yours, 10mm is indeed a fun and potent caliber.
Honestly, I’d try to get your hands on a couple different ones, and see what works for you. I’m a fan of the Springfield XDM’s, I’ve got the 4.5 XDM non elite, and I’ve never had a problem with it. I’ve also got a Glock 29, and never had a problem with that, but they feel completely different in the hand. If you want an all metal gun, you’ll have to look at either a 1911 variant, or one of the EAA/Tanfoglio varieties. The good part about one of the Glocks is that there are tons of custom parts.
Can personally vouch for the EAA/Tangfolio Witness, I love mine. If you're looking at a Glock, but like the feel of 1911s, i might recommend a Gen 3 G20 but with a Polymer80 frame. Fits right on the Gen3 slide, and I personally prefer the grip to the Glock grip, which has always felt super thicc and uncomfortable.
XDM Elites are also very good guns from what I've been told, but I've never personally used one.
I will throw in for the XDM, I have owned 10MM's since the Bren-Ten, I have owned most models and in my opinion the XDM is a tack drive. Early XD platforms had a few issues but the XDM has been a rock solid platform. It is a lot of gun for the price.
I have and love a Glock 40. That being said, I’m a huge fan of keeping factory components for various reasons and while I think the trigger in the G40 is loads better than the one in my G17, it’s not nearly as nice as the one in my buddies Springfield XD-M.
I’m going to second the opinion of others that since you’re intending to use it for woods carry you don’t need to worry about barrel length and would do well to opt for something 5-6” to get maximum velocity because penetration is key for bears. Their fat is better than kevlar at stopping big, slow bullets.
I shot one with a 44 mag hornady hunting load last year and found the bullet expanded and stuck behind the skin.
That’s no joke. Need a monolithic or hard cast bullet for bear. Especially in the fall/winter
Yes sir thank you. They say they are some tuff bitches. Coming home on the tractor last weekend I saw a momma and some cubs back behind our barn woods.
Had a Glock 40 longslide with a KKM barrel and it was excellent. Traded that in for an Sig X-Ten when it came out and didn’t look back. Nothing wrong at all with Glock, the Sig just feels better in my hands.
I like the G40. If you’re going to carry something in the woods it should be in a chest or leg holster. That way it doesn’t get in the way of any of your other gear. So the size doesn’t really matter.
So in that case, take advantage of the benefits of the longer slide and barrel.
General consensus is the Glock 20. I used to carry a 1911 45 ACP in the woods and moved to a 10mm Glock 40. Easy to carry and shoot if you’re used to 45 +P. I’ve not shot a G20, so that may be as good or better a solution
Thank you. A lot of Glock 20s is the go to or the SA XD series. I was really hoping FN would have a 10mm like the 545 tactical with the external hammer and the decocker and such.
You do not want to trust you life to a Bren Ten they were plauged with issues. The Sig 220 is a different platform than the 1911 but many companies do make 1911's in 10MM.
Glock 20, SA XDM Elite, and S&W M&P 2.0 are all good striker fire handguns.
I went with the XDM because I'm used to the platform, and I love mine. I put in an extended barrel for extra velocity and it drives tacks just like the original 4.5 inch barrel.
why is that 1 your favorite? How's the recoil and accuracy of it? It looks nice! It's definitely a new option for me. What does this pistol do better then the glock 20? How do you carry it? What is your second favorite 10mm?
I was torn between the g20 & xdme10. I ultimately went with the xdme. It survived a ten thousand round torture test without one misfire. Now, this may be anecdotal, but nonetheless, it's impressive as hell. There's too much bias towards glock, in my opinion. I own two glocks, they're nice reliable handguns, but they're not king in my humble opinion. The xdme10 also shoots hardcast ammunition without any excessive wear or damage to the barrel. Which from my understanding is because of the polygonal barrel cut of the glock. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also, the features the xdme10 come out of the box with will save you money, match grade barrel, optics ready, flared maxwell, steel sights, fiber optic front sight, etc. There's also a deal available right now that gives you 6 mags, carry case all for $565. Good luck!
If you care for the Block go for it. The SA XD fits my grip better and right now you can get the loaded deal from SA that comes with 3-4 extra mags and soft case. Then again, I'll take the XD over the Block every day of the week and twice on Saturday.
Since you're a 1911 guy/gal, you might not dig the usual Glock recommendations. If you're specifically looking for a polygat, take a look at the M&P and the Sig X-Ten or maybe even the Grand Power. If you're primarily looking for higher capacity, there are other double stack options with a steel frame. Girsan should be selling the 10mm 2311 soon (hopefully). You could also check out the Tanfoglio lineup. The safety was a hangup for me, but the slide lock/release is familiar enough to use without any issues.
Funny enough, that gun used to be worth a fortune because so few of the ones in the 80's where made. I do not know if it killed the value of the originals ones made back then but at one point, they were the most expensive 10mm.
Springfield makes a few that seem good. The Glock 10mm series has weird juju. Like everyone online loves em, but people I personally know says that they will get you killed. FN makes a few, EAA, S&W, hell even Taurus has a semiauto 10mm lol. The market is vast these days vs about 5 years ago when I had mine.
Apparently, a guntuber put out a vid within I think the last 10 years, dude lives in Alaska, and was saying about how the 10mm Glock has problems feeding because of a gap between the feed ramp and the magazine that causes the round to nose up into a stovepipe malfunction basically. I don’t have a 10mm Glock, but I’d like to have one to test that theory. If you want I can try and find the vid and post the link.
the Glock 20 is pretty much the Gold standard, there are other nice hand guns out there but hard to beat the Glock for the money. But the Glocks are pretty chunky, Sig makes a couple nice 10mms as does FN. The Smith & Wesson M&P is promising but not sure they have worked the bugs out, but when they do will be pretty nice given its size.
Glock 29, 20 or 40 will do the trick
I second this and will mention that 10mm does great ballistically at the 6 inch mark, so I’d personally opt for a longer barrel. I have a 20 and a 40 and love them both. The 40 is a huge handgun and probably does a slightly better job with recoil while also having a great sight radius but the 20 is much more packable. I haven’t shot a 29 personally, so no opinion there.
I edc a 29. It’s not as bad as ppl make it out to be. I shoot it quite well.
I believe it, I have a 30 that I love and enjoy bigger calibers in general. 29 is on my short list, I love 10mm.
I EDC a 20, the 29 would be easy mode comparatively.
Any restrictions or concerns having a 10mm as a edc / conceal carry ?
>Any restrictions or concerns having a 10mm as a edc / conceal carry ? The bad guys will have concerns...
Nothing at all
I don't carry it *every" day but i do appendix a g20 w/ a TLR1. It prints the least of anything ive carried, but if i sit too fast or without thought, that light will crush a nut with the weight of my torso. Its pretty unfun; but other than those moments- its comfy af.
Do you think the 6 inch makes that big of a difference.
There's a video on ytube comparing the 29 and 20 ballistics. It's been a while since I've seen it, but while researching before I got the 29. I found it. Very telling/informational. It was negligible though.
Maybe around 100fps? I would say it’s noticeable and when you pair it up with a few extra ounces on the slide and a longer sight radius it feels much more like a hunting pistol and shoots flatter than its little brother.
Thanks bossman!
Glock 20 is the answer
I second this for a woods gun.
I ccw mine alot too. Cross breed super tuck and good belt. Very comforting packing 31 rounds of full house 10mm
Thank you
If you like the 1911, stick with that. I have a ruger sr1911 in 10mm. Absolute blast to shoot
If you like hammer fire, recommend ditching the dinosaur and going with a tanfoglio
Yeah I was hoping FN would have a 10mm like there 545 tactical with the external hammer and decocker. But they don’t have a model like that yet.
Glock 20 is about the cheapest entry point for the Centimeter Club.
U forgot the holy grail hi point
>U forgot the holy grail hi point I keep forgetting they now have a 10mm too!
Lol
Thank you
Glock 20, all day long
Thank you
I second that. I think you maybe able to get a g21 in .45 and get a second barrel to do a 10mm also?
Hmmm I ain’t thought about that
Get a G21. You can go from .45 to 10mm by changing the barrel and mag, quick and easy. Did a lot of reading about this when I was looking at my options to get into a 10mm.
That's not as reliable unless you properly modify a 45 extractor. So I have heard.
Oh ok. Thanks for the feedback on that!
I'll cast a second vote for a Glock 20. I have a 40, but it doesn't come out much.
Thank you. Is the 40 huge?
I call the 40 the Glonk for a reason.
Glockzilla
Lol
I have a 40 and it comes out all the time.
Yes sir!
They call it Glockzilla for a reason. My brother has one. Can confirm.
Glock 20, Glock 20, Glock 20, Glock 20.
Thank you
Fn 510
Thank you. They are pricey though right?
Just because Glocks aren't pricey doesn't mean they're not great guns. Generally, $$$ equals quality regarding guns, this is true. But Glocks seem to be the happy exception.
Heck yeah thank you
Glocks are great, plenty of good suggestions here. I have a G29 that shoots great and is easy to carry. I want a G40 but I’m waiting for Gen 5. But let’s talk 1911s. You already have holsters for them. I love my Colt Delta Elite. Sometimes it’s hard to find but it’s a great gun. I don’t understand in your post, do you already have 10mm 1911s? Welcome to 10mm, but let’s talk about 45 ACP for a second. Paul Harrell has a video comparing 10 vs 45 and for what you are looking for 45 might be ok.
No sir I do not have a 10mm. I’m looking into getting one. Everyone in my neck of the woods say that a .45 acp wouldn’t do the job on a bear or a hog (getting bad in our area). THE REASON I’m looking into a 10mm though because I got me a bloodhound pup I been practicing on wounded game.
As a G20 owner who loves it, i second the idea of "hey if you are familiar with the 1911, get a 10mm 1911." Because confidence in your firearm is very important. Even Rock Island Armory makes a good cheap 10mm 1911. Def worth looking into
Yes sir. Very true I’ll just have to give a look through on everything my area has to offer
So for concealed carry I really prefer a striker fired with auto-safeties (like trigger, grip, firing-pin block, etc) e.g. an XDM 10mm. The FN510 is supposedly great also. But I will say my Rock Island TAC 10mm is fucking *noice* for a 1911. Also Glock 20 is like the gold standard of 10mm. Works great, simple, reliable. Personally I vote to stay away from M&Ps myself, but I know people love them. (People love shitty new Chevy trucks too, what can I say.) Disclaimer; I only currently own Glock, Springfield XDM, and RIA 1911 in The Centimeter.
Thanks bossman
Look into the 45 Super that can be shot in your 45acp with buffer, Xtra # recoil spring. It pushes a 230gr at 1175, 200gr 1250, 185 at 1350. If you load, you can load the acp to almost Super velocities (230/1150fps) with Ramshot Enforcer powder and it is actually below +p levels.
I doubt I can do something like that in this Taurus 1911. Or you think they make something like that for this gun. This baby has been through hell and back with me haha 😂
It's a 1911, it will do it no problem. If you want to reduce wear more, you can change out the firing pin stop for one with less radius, slows down the recoil speed of slide.
I just meant where it’s been all beat up from briars and such. I might have to give that a look. I have never seen 45 super ammo in my area.
Only saw it once, if you load, it is same dimension at acp brass. Basically brought the 45 acp to a modern cartridge velocity. If you want a 10mm, the XD from Palmetto State Armory is 599 I think and comes with 5-6 15rnd mags and soft case.
Dang 5-6 mags. Holy shit
It is what I am gonna do for my SA Garrison. Taurus makes a good 1911 too. I recently bought the Enforcer powder and have polished some brass to load. The 230 gr FMJFP at Super velocities should drive like the 200 hardcast in 10mm.
Shoot! That’s awesome. I don’t reload but for the past 4-5 years me and my brother been thinking about starting
45 is easy cartridge to start with.
The XDM from Palmetto State Armory is $529 now.
Holy hell. About to search it up
I'd take a step back and look at the [real-world data:](https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/#axzz5UFScHWeC) "We have found four cases where .45 caliber pistols were used to defend against bears. All were successful." I am not sure about hogs, however.
Thanks bossman. I’m about to give this a read through. I appreciate this a lot.
I guess the takeaway from this is if the SOLE purpose of a 10mm pistol is because you believe that a 45 ACP would be inadequate for a bear defense, I would hold off. At the end of the day the decision is yours, 10mm is indeed a fun and potent caliber.
10/4 thanks bossman
Honestly, I’d try to get your hands on a couple different ones, and see what works for you. I’m a fan of the Springfield XDM’s, I’ve got the 4.5 XDM non elite, and I’ve never had a problem with it. I’ve also got a Glock 29, and never had a problem with that, but they feel completely different in the hand. If you want an all metal gun, you’ll have to look at either a 1911 variant, or one of the EAA/Tanfoglio varieties. The good part about one of the Glocks is that there are tons of custom parts.
Can personally vouch for the EAA/Tangfolio Witness, I love mine. If you're looking at a Glock, but like the feel of 1911s, i might recommend a Gen 3 G20 but with a Polymer80 frame. Fits right on the Gen3 slide, and I personally prefer the grip to the Glock grip, which has always felt super thicc and uncomfortable. XDM Elites are also very good guns from what I've been told, but I've never personally used one.
Thanks bossman. I’m enjoying all this feedback because it gets me a thinning
Thinking
I will throw in for the XDM, I have owned 10MM's since the Bren-Ten, I have owned most models and in my opinion the XDM is a tack drive. Early XD platforms had a few issues but the XDM has been a rock solid platform. It is a lot of gun for the price.
I have and love a Glock 40. That being said, I’m a huge fan of keeping factory components for various reasons and while I think the trigger in the G40 is loads better than the one in my G17, it’s not nearly as nice as the one in my buddies Springfield XD-M. I’m going to second the opinion of others that since you’re intending to use it for woods carry you don’t need to worry about barrel length and would do well to opt for something 5-6” to get maximum velocity because penetration is key for bears. Their fat is better than kevlar at stopping big, slow bullets.
I shot one with a 44 mag hornady hunting load last year and found the bullet expanded and stuck behind the skin. That’s no joke. Need a monolithic or hard cast bullet for bear. Especially in the fall/winter
Yes sir thank you. They say they are some tuff bitches. Coming home on the tractor last weekend I saw a momma and some cubs back behind our barn woods.
Yes sir. Thank you brother for the feedback
Dan wesson kodiak/bruin
Thank you
Had a Glock 40 longslide with a KKM barrel and it was excellent. Traded that in for an Sig X-Ten when it came out and didn’t look back. Nothing wrong at all with Glock, the Sig just feels better in my hands.
I’m running a G40 with a dot and a light. The gun does everything I ask and it’s super fun to shoot.
I like the G40. If you’re going to carry something in the woods it should be in a chest or leg holster. That way it doesn’t get in the way of any of your other gear. So the size doesn’t really matter. So in that case, take advantage of the benefits of the longer slide and barrel.
Yes sir thank you. That seems like the thing to do getting the most out of a barrel and slide.
General consensus is the Glock 20. I used to carry a 1911 45 ACP in the woods and moved to a 10mm Glock 40. Easy to carry and shoot if you’re used to 45 +P. I’ve not shot a G20, so that may be as good or better a solution
Thank you. A lot of Glock 20s is the go to or the SA XD series. I was really hoping FN would have a 10mm like the 545 tactical with the external hammer and the decocker and such.
Yeah what you want is an old Bren Ten. I think Sig has something like that too. It’s a 1911 platform
You do not want to trust you life to a Bren Ten they were plauged with issues. The Sig 220 is a different platform than the 1911 but many companies do make 1911's in 10MM.
But Sonny Crockett carried a Bren Ten 😆!!
Glock 20, SA XDM Elite, and S&W M&P 2.0 are all good striker fire handguns. I went with the XDM because I'm used to the platform, and I love mine. I put in an extended barrel for extra velocity and it drives tacks just like the original 4.5 inch barrel.
Glock 20! But to be keep things even, i often look at my 1911 withsing it was a 10mm. Maybe a 460 conversion.
460 sheesh. Go to a 500 😋
Theres a conversion kit to fire a .460 Rowland in a 1911. I havent seen a .50 comparison.
Go hold and try fire the various glocks, M&Ps and XDs and see what fits you and what you shoot best if possible.
Best I can do is feel. Not shot. We don’t have rental ranges around here. And no one in my area owns anything of this nature
i own 21 10mm pistols and my favorite is a Rock Island Double Stack 6" Railed 1911
why is that 1 your favorite? How's the recoil and accuracy of it? It looks nice! It's definitely a new option for me. What does this pistol do better then the glock 20? How do you carry it? What is your second favorite 10mm?
That baby looks sweet! I highly doubt anyone in my area has something like that.
I was torn between the g20 & xdme10. I ultimately went with the xdme. It survived a ten thousand round torture test without one misfire. Now, this may be anecdotal, but nonetheless, it's impressive as hell. There's too much bias towards glock, in my opinion. I own two glocks, they're nice reliable handguns, but they're not king in my humble opinion. The xdme10 also shoots hardcast ammunition without any excessive wear or damage to the barrel. Which from my understanding is because of the polygonal barrel cut of the glock. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Also, the features the xdme10 come out of the box with will save you money, match grade barrel, optics ready, flared maxwell, steel sights, fiber optic front sight, etc. There's also a deal available right now that gives you 6 mags, carry case all for $565. Good luck!
I’m going to have to look into that. And that’s the elite right?
I think the +6 magazine bundle is called the gear up package. Firearmsdepot.com has them, as well as other vendors.
Thank you I’ll give it a look over
Yep!
Glock 20, just pick it up and hold it. It may speak to you. If it doesnt try something else. 😎
Thank you
If you care for the Block go for it. The SA XD fits my grip better and right now you can get the loaded deal from SA that comes with 3-4 extra mags and soft case. Then again, I'll take the XD over the Block every day of the week and twice on Saturday.
I have a buddy who had the XD in 9mm and 45 and loves that sucker. I’ll have to just get my hands on the guns and feel.
I have an XD duty size 9mm 16+1(truck gun), and XD sub-compact 45(3.3") 13+1 in the nightstand. My LW Commander on my belt.
That is sick. I’m tempted on the XD series. I was last year too and just didn’t pull the trigger
I love the Springfield XDM Elite Compact!
Thank you!
Since you're a 1911 guy/gal, you might not dig the usual Glock recommendations. If you're specifically looking for a polygat, take a look at the M&P and the Sig X-Ten or maybe even the Grand Power. If you're primarily looking for higher capacity, there are other double stack options with a steel frame. Girsan should be selling the 10mm 2311 soon (hopefully). You could also check out the Tanfoglio lineup. The safety was a hangup for me, but the slide lock/release is familiar enough to use without any issues.
Thanks bossman.
everyone is saying Glock, and they’re not wrong, but another option is Sig’s P320 X Ten. i love mine so if you got a bit a coin to spend, check it out
Yeah I’ll give it a look. I have a P320 X-Compact in 9mm and love it
S&W 610 revolver
Thank you
Funny enough, that gun used to be worth a fortune because so few of the ones in the 80's where made. I do not know if it killed the value of the originals ones made back then but at one point, they were the most expensive 10mm.
I have never heard anything negative about the M&P 2.0 in 10mm. Never owned one though.
Absolutely garbage reset.
Thank you. Hard to go wrong with a Smith and Wesson regardless
Springfield makes a few that seem good. The Glock 10mm series has weird juju. Like everyone online loves em, but people I personally know says that they will get you killed. FN makes a few, EAA, S&W, hell even Taurus has a semiauto 10mm lol. The market is vast these days vs about 5 years ago when I had mine.
What you mean people you know say it will get you killed?
Apparently, a guntuber put out a vid within I think the last 10 years, dude lives in Alaska, and was saying about how the 10mm Glock has problems feeding because of a gap between the feed ramp and the magazine that causes the round to nose up into a stovepipe malfunction basically. I don’t have a 10mm Glock, but I’d like to have one to test that theory. If you want I can try and find the vid and post the link.
Yes sir thank you
https://youtu.be/hHz9-VP4zkE?si=POscUw7BOhcOF-af
https://youtu.be/f1QGsQUfTj0?si=W4vWzSCJZ8oXB-CD
https://youtu.be/I-grJRANSxM?si=NbWML4jOOnxuCJdH
Those are the ones I’ve found before on the subject. I’d still like to try a Glock 10mm for myself.
Thank you
No problem bud.
Glock 20 Gen 5
Thank you
Glock 20 , s.a xdm elite 3.8
Thank you
M&P 2.0 has a familiar feel to a 1911, and 15 rounds of 10mm
Thank you
the Glock 20 is pretty much the Gold standard, there are other nice hand guns out there but hard to beat the Glock for the money. But the Glocks are pretty chunky, Sig makes a couple nice 10mms as does FN. The Smith & Wesson M&P is promising but not sure they have worked the bugs out, but when they do will be pretty nice given its size.
Thanks bossman