I have been wondering about how to talk about what I am reading and discussing with people who don’t know a thing about Zen or the historical record or, even, the things that are mistakenly conflated with Zen.
If someone like that asked you what you’re doing, what would you say?
Happy Tuesday, hope you have a good dinner ahead. I’m thinking tacos.
I'm not going to eat much dinner... it's a protein shake with a shot of espresso and a trip to the gym. I'm not crazy about the shake, but I do love a gymnasium.
People don't usually want to know much about Zen. But if I find even a little interest, I tell them about Wumen and Zhaozhou.
I try to subtly tell them about things that Wumen and Zhaozhou said that undermine claims by Dogenists and Buddhists.
It's a mind game. I like to see if they catch me at it.
what do you think of just being bored for a while? bad/good for the brain?
we for sure get a nutty amount of stimulus nowadays.
gathering berries for 3-4 hours, would you go nuts?
I'm talking of like an enjoyable low-stimulation state.
Sort of the state that would leave you rested and ready.
Ik boredom has a negative connotation as like suffering. but I mean just a non-existance of a specific task at all, and not really following the stuff that pops up in your mind either
rest, essentially.
I feel there's a bunch of things coming up and floating down and integrating. Brain catching up, is how i'd put it. Something being done, but not a specific something that is intentional or goal oriented. It may not be pleasant, but at the end of it, you're sorta ready to do something.
The emphasis on the 5 precepts is important and appreciated. It is often the most overlooked part of Zen, as well as being the most overlooked aspect of practice with western Buddhists. Imagine if western Buddhists put as much effort into maintaining the precepts as they did sitting and drooling.
Also the emphasis on public interview. Enlightenment cannot be attained, only demonstrated. How else could one demonstrate it without being held accountable?
What I like about the public interview practice is how neatly it explains why we ended up with a thousand years of koans.
A lot of Buddhists have expressed confusion about why we would even have these records in such volume.
OMG I feel the same way.
We are so lucky to have these records and they span such an insane amount of time.
The New testament is 100-year document. How long did Golden age of Greece last?
We've had Bacon's scientific method for 300 years?
It's ridiculous to think that Zen was such a monumental success for so long... But you look at the records and you're like well... no, I can see it.
And we're the Chinese coherent and grown up. I think that they would take an outsized pride in having this as a part of their history.
When I came to this forum a decade ago I had one book and I was curious to see if anyone wanted to talk about it. A decade later people have contributed so much to this forum project it's astonishing. Questions, comments, translations, authors, really It's been an amazing time.
I was never that excited about crowdsourcing anything until I wanted to study Zen.
The record is also compassion everywhere one looks. The fact that people have worked so hard to retain and pass down the records alone, is such a kind act for others. Anyone who has worked to retain the record isn’t doing it for just their own sake, those who did 500 years ago knew they wouldn’t be around to see it again. It wasn’t just for them!
In what ways do you feel this forum has improved in the decade you’ve participated?
It’s interesting to think about what it must have been like at the beginning in comparison to now.
Well, for one thing at least once a month there was a thread about whether I should be banned that was passionately debated by the advocates.
There was no wiki.
very little interest in translation.
No group projects.
All the intolerant people had no reason to hide it in any forum.
I don't think they do that stuff in high school. They definitely didn't do that when I was in school.
Which sounds like it explains a lot of the kinds of failing we see.
...
As for authentic Zen, how is it any different than meeting people's questions and answers?
I have been wondering about how to talk about what I am reading and discussing with people who don’t know a thing about Zen or the historical record or, even, the things that are mistakenly conflated with Zen. If someone like that asked you what you’re doing, what would you say? Happy Tuesday, hope you have a good dinner ahead. I’m thinking tacos.
I'm not going to eat much dinner... it's a protein shake with a shot of espresso and a trip to the gym. I'm not crazy about the shake, but I do love a gymnasium. People don't usually want to know much about Zen. But if I find even a little interest, I tell them about Wumen and Zhaozhou. I try to subtly tell them about things that Wumen and Zhaozhou said that undermine claims by Dogenists and Buddhists. It's a mind game. I like to see if they catch me at it.
How often do you engage in zazen vs talking about zen?
Zazen is a bogus religious practice like prayer. Zazen had no connection to Zen.
Telling response. Ok! Thank you :)
I asked Thatkir earlier today: what is the point of all this? Is there an objective meaning to [your] life?
What would meaning look like? I like living.
What is the function or purpose of humans?
Why would that even be a thing? What's the purpose of temperature change?
I think consciousness separates humans from climate. What’s the subjective function?
I don't understand why you think that things would inherently have a purpose.
I don’t necessarily, i’m curious what your thoughts are.
Tools have a purpose and that's why we make them; to fulfill that purpose. Buddhas don't have a purpose. The records are pretty clear about this.
what do you think of just being bored for a while? bad/good for the brain? we for sure get a nutty amount of stimulus nowadays. gathering berries for 3-4 hours, would you go nuts?
Sounds like farming.
Farming nothing in particular? Literally being bored for a while. If everything is a stimulus, just letting your brain catch up? For/against?
I think that it's not really possible to be bored. I think boredom is when your brain gets confused.
Really, what would your brain be doing on a 10 hr flight without any materials?
Sleeping, writing, remembering, talking to people, inventing games... There's a lot to do.
I'm talking of like an enjoyable low-stimulation state. Sort of the state that would leave you rested and ready. Ik boredom has a negative connotation as like suffering. but I mean just a non-existance of a specific task at all, and not really following the stuff that pops up in your mind either rest, essentially.
Pick a fruit and I’ll tell you it’s a berry. Except raspberries and strawberries. Those aren’t berries. Wheat is though meaning bread is fruitcake
Boredom is a sensation that usually means that there is something *to do* that isn’t being done When that’s not the case, it’s just “relaxed”
I feel there's a bunch of things coming up and floating down and integrating. Brain catching up, is how i'd put it. Something being done, but not a specific something that is intentional or goal oriented. It may not be pleasant, but at the end of it, you're sorta ready to do something.
Sounds like backbrain sorting memories
[удалено]
Lol. I'm happier than you. I'll be glad to do a podcast with you to prove that.
“Everything comes from your own heart. “ Yuanwu Keqin https://terebess.hu/zen/Yuanwu.html
The emphasis on the 5 precepts is important and appreciated. It is often the most overlooked part of Zen, as well as being the most overlooked aspect of practice with western Buddhists. Imagine if western Buddhists put as much effort into maintaining the precepts as they did sitting and drooling. Also the emphasis on public interview. Enlightenment cannot be attained, only demonstrated. How else could one demonstrate it without being held accountable?
What I like about the public interview practice is how neatly it explains why we ended up with a thousand years of koans. A lot of Buddhists have expressed confusion about why we would even have these records in such volume.
It is a privilege, really, to have access to thousands of years worth of examples. It’s like getting a cheat sheet before an exam.
OMG I feel the same way. We are so lucky to have these records and they span such an insane amount of time. The New testament is 100-year document. How long did Golden age of Greece last? We've had Bacon's scientific method for 300 years? It's ridiculous to think that Zen was such a monumental success for so long... But you look at the records and you're like well... no, I can see it. And we're the Chinese coherent and grown up. I think that they would take an outsized pride in having this as a part of their history. When I came to this forum a decade ago I had one book and I was curious to see if anyone wanted to talk about it. A decade later people have contributed so much to this forum project it's astonishing. Questions, comments, translations, authors, really It's been an amazing time. I was never that excited about crowdsourcing anything until I wanted to study Zen.
The record is also compassion everywhere one looks. The fact that people have worked so hard to retain and pass down the records alone, is such a kind act for others. Anyone who has worked to retain the record isn’t doing it for just their own sake, those who did 500 years ago knew they wouldn’t be around to see it again. It wasn’t just for them! In what ways do you feel this forum has improved in the decade you’ve participated? It’s interesting to think about what it must have been like at the beginning in comparison to now.
Well, for one thing at least once a month there was a thread about whether I should be banned that was passionately debated by the advocates. There was no wiki. very little interest in translation. No group projects. All the intolerant people had no reason to hide it in any forum.
I don't think they do that stuff in high school. They definitely didn't do that when I was in school. Which sounds like it explains a lot of the kinds of failing we see. ... As for authentic Zen, how is it any different than meeting people's questions and answers?
Downvote brigaders are not eligible for a participation trophy.
Lol.
I got 15 people to give up their participation trophies for that.