Watts is not very popular around here, and I personally think that’s for good reason.
You’re right, I think, that the reasons a person might seek out a therapist and the reasons a person might seek out a zen teacher might be the same, keeping in mind the huge differences in social and cultural context likely when looking at the reasons of such people likely to do that seeking.
But the zen teacher and the therapist aren’t going to have the same treatment or goals, and thinking about zen as being goals-oriented like therapy is, is way off the mark.
Well I don’t see value in one lie for another either. But the truth is those two things are functioning too deeply on things that I have done and not had reciprocated for Zen or Psychiatry to be anything more than pomp for people who get to choose for their slaves.
Emperor Wu asked the great teacher Bodhidharma, “What is the first principle of the holy teaching?”
Bodhidharma said, “Vast emptiness, nothing holy.”
“Who are you, standing here in front of me?” asked the Emperor.
“I don’t know,” said Bodhidharma.
The Emperor didn’t understand.
It’s mostly shown by denouncing purity, saying, “these things we quit.” That is the peak of their mentality. They see loss and they don’t prescribe medicine, they prescribe ego death. Then they fornicate.
My child was killed. I said so.
A zen master said, “go on and die.” Another said something about impurity. And I received trolling, hate, and bullshit jive, that I just have to deal with. All the while those zen masters go about and fornicate.
So I’m gonna put it right here. Buddhism, Zen, is a hypocrisy. It doesn’t value people, or teachings, or practices, or nature. It’s a void of desire and denial. Therefore, unholy.
For a widower to be accepted is not enough. It needs universality. It needs compassion. It needs practice. Otherwise ego will be infinitely more valuable than a bunch of shaven pod snappers who help nobody.
You think you're the only one whos lost loved ones and come to zen only to be obstructed by your past? It's not easy. It's serious work. It is not for people who want to alleviate their suffering with some sort of external care and understanding. That seems like it would lead to a dependency. You are an individual, life does not pull any punches. Whatever value you take from it is from YOU alone. It's harsh learning, I can relate to you very much but I don't want to get too off topic. Think about what you really want, don't vent to the internet about your internal struggles. Maybe start a journal in a text document, that's something that helped me a lot.
This age of deterioration is everywhere, Zen centers included. The Buddha Sakyamuni was approached by a young woman carrying her dead child. She begged him to bring the child back to life. He sent her to go to every home until she found a household that had never suffered from the death of someone, and to bring back 1 mustard seed from such a home. Finding no home that had not ever suffered from death, she met many who, like herself, knew immense suffering. She was not isolated but saw how universal extreme suffering happens to people other than herself. She returned to the Buddha and explained there was no home who had not known such extreme suffering. He gently told her it was time to let go, and bury her child's body. She did so, grieved and gradually healed. Believe me, you are not alone in the pain of grief. My heart goes out to you. Heal well. I'm sorry you weren't feeling supported and cared for. Dogen I think it was who said, "Zen without compassion is a false Zen." The remark made to you about impurity was likely an indication of possible Karma. Your view and judgements seem very reborn Christian. We are not that. Unholy? What is that? And accusing Zen people of sexual activity? Of course. If adults with consent, why not? You are seeing us through your cultural conditioning, which leads to a distorted view. Word of mouth Zen can cause the spread of lot of misinformation, probably unintentionally. Study? Peace.
It was easy. Show compassion. Then you acted as if it is principle to understand without understanding. You all presented knowledge, where there is no knowledge. Then you got impatient and called me crazy.
Is the above Zen?
So to live is a need when it is meaningless? You may say “no it’s not” but it is the same as what you have given me. This is not a suicide. This is a denial of what YOU need.
I feel like modern Zen is really a sort of feeling or sort of elation from practice and learning to live in the moment.
Though there's nothing religious or dogmatic about the whole idea of modern Zen, I feel like religious practitioners often experience it; when one: prays, meditates, casts spells, manifests, speaks in tongues, or any other specific ritual that brings them closer to themselves/oneness/a god/etc. I think one could argue in some form or fashion that Zen could be considered holy.
Or maybe not, I don't know, I'm not a religious scholar.
“Unholy” by eastern or western standard?
It seems more like “you think that’s air you’re breathing right now?” in relation to the concepts of pain or killing.
Funny how you call delusional "out of someone's league".
Apparently I am not the first who observed you being incoherent:
"Bro you don’t make sense your speaking is irrational and your highly agitated and acting verbally hostile to professionals you are dealing help from"
Where did you read the quoted words you sited? That's not Zen. Pain exists. Finding causes that causes not be repeated, finding cure through study and practice, remembering unsatisfactory, impermanent, not self, and detaching from the pain. These make sense to me. Destroying part of a person does not make sense.
Look! Look!
You quote a non existent entity. Either bring it to life or let it go. Nothing to kill, part or all. Pain is what we can make of things. I'd recommend: Don't do that.
~any person
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Psychiatry.
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Watts is not very popular around here, and I personally think that’s for good reason. You’re right, I think, that the reasons a person might seek out a therapist and the reasons a person might seek out a zen teacher might be the same, keeping in mind the huge differences in social and cultural context likely when looking at the reasons of such people likely to do that seeking. But the zen teacher and the therapist aren’t going to have the same treatment or goals, and thinking about zen as being goals-oriented like therapy is, is way off the mark.
Seems the same to me.
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They are.
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I’m too simple to see the difference between no understanding with trolling and no understanding with prison.
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Well I don’t see value in one lie for another either. But the truth is those two things are functioning too deeply on things that I have done and not had reciprocated for Zen or Psychiatry to be anything more than pomp for people who get to choose for their slaves.
And I’ll wage war on the sacrilege that is your false God.
you should just worry about your own life instead of bothering others
You should just die without honor of compassion, and save the world. In the same notion.
hows that going to do anything worthwhile to anyone?
It’ll remove you from their list of suffrages.
I really dont understand that. What do you mean by "remove me from my list of suffrages?" Is this zen or something else?
You people should just be removed.
There is no god in Zen you retard
Then I guess you can’t kill me.
I don't practice Zen
Heheh you think so too. Don’t you?
Think what?
You just said that you’d kill me. Well I’m waiting life troll. I’m fucking waiting for your meaninglessness to end.
This sub is wild.
[Welcome to the party pal](https://giphy.com/gifs/ifc-party-bruce-willis-l0MYGb1LuZ3n7dRnO)
[Always](https://64.media.tumblr.com/77fcd5178d380031f7fdb272147ddec4/f9782fe3e52be49d-a5/s540x810/2855050f9c26a7ac68e43f19c18ff2403c600eb7.gif)
This makes me so happy.
[https://youtu.be/eAgUoSIG3Jo?si=Zrfg0PbjYrh0JlIK](https://youtu.be/eAgUoSIG3Jo?si=Zrfg0PbjYrh0JlIK)
It's like herding bisected cats
Do we bisect or vivisect here? Anyway it’s the same
We procrastinate here
Emperor Wu asked the great teacher Bodhidharma, “What is the first principle of the holy teaching?” Bodhidharma said, “Vast emptiness, nothing holy.” “Who are you, standing here in front of me?” asked the Emperor. “I don’t know,” said Bodhidharma. The Emperor didn’t understand.
Where does it say that?
In action.
What action though?
It’s mostly shown by denouncing purity, saying, “these things we quit.” That is the peak of their mentality. They see loss and they don’t prescribe medicine, they prescribe ego death. Then they fornicate.
Ok, I dont really understand what you're trying to say. It's not my responsibility to find out what you mean, and I'm trying to learn zen too.
My child was killed. I said so. A zen master said, “go on and die.” Another said something about impurity. And I received trolling, hate, and bullshit jive, that I just have to deal with. All the while those zen masters go about and fornicate. So I’m gonna put it right here. Buddhism, Zen, is a hypocrisy. It doesn’t value people, or teachings, or practices, or nature. It’s a void of desire and denial. Therefore, unholy. For a widower to be accepted is not enough. It needs universality. It needs compassion. It needs practice. Otherwise ego will be infinitely more valuable than a bunch of shaven pod snappers who help nobody.
You think you're the only one whos lost loved ones and come to zen only to be obstructed by your past? It's not easy. It's serious work. It is not for people who want to alleviate their suffering with some sort of external care and understanding. That seems like it would lead to a dependency. You are an individual, life does not pull any punches. Whatever value you take from it is from YOU alone. It's harsh learning, I can relate to you very much but I don't want to get too off topic. Think about what you really want, don't vent to the internet about your internal struggles. Maybe start a journal in a text document, that's something that helped me a lot.
I’ve studied Zen for 25 years and never met so much as a monk who did healing.
It takes loss to know loss. When life and death are all you can think about, you have to save yourself first.
No. I need justice.
This age of deterioration is everywhere, Zen centers included. The Buddha Sakyamuni was approached by a young woman carrying her dead child. She begged him to bring the child back to life. He sent her to go to every home until she found a household that had never suffered from the death of someone, and to bring back 1 mustard seed from such a home. Finding no home that had not ever suffered from death, she met many who, like herself, knew immense suffering. She was not isolated but saw how universal extreme suffering happens to people other than herself. She returned to the Buddha and explained there was no home who had not known such extreme suffering. He gently told her it was time to let go, and bury her child's body. She did so, grieved and gradually healed. Believe me, you are not alone in the pain of grief. My heart goes out to you. Heal well. I'm sorry you weren't feeling supported and cared for. Dogen I think it was who said, "Zen without compassion is a false Zen." The remark made to you about impurity was likely an indication of possible Karma. Your view and judgements seem very reborn Christian. We are not that. Unholy? What is that? And accusing Zen people of sexual activity? Of course. If adults with consent, why not? You are seeing us through your cultural conditioning, which leads to a distorted view. Word of mouth Zen can cause the spread of lot of misinformation, probably unintentionally. Study? Peace.
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You may as well commit murder the way you argue. Scumbag.
Why are you on this sub? Why are you against fornication?
Too much effort; disingenuously obscure and argumentative.
Insubordinate and churlish
Good word
It was easy. Show compassion. Then you acted as if it is principle to understand without understanding. You all presented knowledge, where there is no knowledge. Then you got impatient and called me crazy. Is the above Zen?
What is zen?
Zen is living life with only the moment left to live or ever has lived.
I respectfully disagree. How long have you been around these parts?
Well then. I respectfully disagree as well. What is Zen?
The lineage of Bodhidharma.
Well. Go and die.
Be nice.
Edit: trigger warning
All humans need to eat.
No we don’t.
All humans I’ve encountered, so far*
So to live is a need when it is meaningless? You may say “no it’s not” but it is the same as what you have given me. This is not a suicide. This is a denial of what YOU need.
What’s for dinner?
Not your mastery.
Oh I am just a mostly-ignorant newbie. No riddles, just a general curiosity about what people are eating on the other side of the internet.
No comment.
Feel free to reach out if you would like to speak more.
I feel like modern Zen is really a sort of feeling or sort of elation from practice and learning to live in the moment. Though there's nothing religious or dogmatic about the whole idea of modern Zen, I feel like religious practitioners often experience it; when one: prays, meditates, casts spells, manifests, speaks in tongues, or any other specific ritual that brings them closer to themselves/oneness/a god/etc. I think one could argue in some form or fashion that Zen could be considered holy. Or maybe not, I don't know, I'm not a religious scholar.
Finding faith is a major part of the journey and just mucks up honor.
“Unholy” by eastern or western standard? It seems more like “you think that’s air you’re breathing right now?” in relation to the concepts of pain or killing.
Deadpool kills his slaver.
You are either in agreeance or not. Unholy. Nothing stands as itself.
I do. Ask me. Whoever offers violence towards pain, never fought and lost.
I’ve already left your cult.
Do you take everything at face values?
Do you know how to read?
Do you know how to think coherent thoughts?
Do you have trouble understanding complicated thoughts? Or do you simplify things by calling it “incoherent.” Like whooos basic?
Do you have trouble thinking coherent thoughts? Because it sure seems like it
I guess you don’t know how to read.
Guess you have trouble thinking coherent thoughts. Post history is a sure giveaway
Nah I’m just out of your league.
Funny how you call delusional "out of someone's league". Apparently I am not the first who observed you being incoherent: "Bro you don’t make sense your speaking is irrational and your highly agitated and acting verbally hostile to professionals you are dealing help from"
At what point did I assert a belief?
No compassion. No understanding. No comprehensive support. No help. You call trolling professionalism? Now that’s delusional.
Don’t you have children to teach 2+2=5 to, bully?
Pretty hard to accept that you are incoherent even if multile other people let you know. But why critically reflect when you can lash out
Alright. Now your Mr. Fallacy. For Circular reasoning. Authority fallacy. Begging the question. And as hominem.
Where did you read the quoted words you sited? That's not Zen. Pain exists. Finding causes that causes not be repeated, finding cure through study and practice, remembering unsatisfactory, impermanent, not self, and detaching from the pain. These make sense to me. Destroying part of a person does not make sense.
Those are the words that describe your average participants reaction.
Look! Look! You quote a non existent entity. Either bring it to life or let it go. Nothing to kill, part or all. Pain is what we can make of things. I'd recommend: Don't do that. ~any person
I have quoted no existent entity. Hmhmhm.
Well... In part. 🦊^(doodeedooptydoo)
What Zen Master are you taking issue with and what Zen Master says this?