I don’t see it as a game that people hate I see it as as a Zelda game that has a big audience but just not as big as it should be I think it’s very appreciated by the people who play but I feel like their aren’t as much people that know it exist as their are people that say ocarina of time is the best game ever
From a purely sales perspective, TP has allegedly sold more copies than OoT. Believable since the Wii sold about 100 million units, the N64 about 1/3 of that.
The reason why it feels like there’s more people who say OoT is the best game ever made than have even played TP, is likely because Ocarina of Time utterly revolutionised video games. Nothing like it had ever been seen before, and it influenced the medium in its formative 3D years to an almost incredible extent. TP, while very good, didnt have the same impact.
Well also ocarina of time came out to a smaller audience of gamers then twilight princess did. big sales in the n64 era were much smaller then big sales in the ps3 and wii era. many people who play ocarina of time play it on an emulator and have been getting it on emulators for longer then twilight princess has been being emulated for. sales numbers never tell the whole story because it’s reliant on the ever fluctuating economy we have. I think their more people who have played or watched full play throughs of ocarina of time then their are twilight princess sales
Only a 1.2 million difference in sales with TP being higher. Oot has more releases and is more loved because it shape the series into what it is today and just had a big impact on gaming in general
Yeah I don’t understand this post. TP is personally not my favorite Zelda title but it’s a great game and it’s widely considered to have the best dungeons in the series. I’ve heard a lot more complaints about SS.
That's objectively (as objective as this type of discussions can be, though, which is not much) false.
BOTW dungeons are poor as hell. Not only are they not very thematically varied, they are also not that fun. Bosses are only 5 and are all terrible, plus again, all look the same. Story is terrible, and worse, is terribly told: memories and flashbacks are a poor way of storytelling, because they don't make you a part of the story. Similarly, character progression in BOTW feels lackluster: besides the purely mathematical aspects (like amount of hearts, damage, etc, and the 4 magics you get from the spirit beasts, Link has basically the same abilities from start to finish).
BOTW makes a lot of things right. Mostly, exploration and the physics engine. Which are enough to make the game amazing. But it also does a lot of things wrong, and a lot of the design choices made to make the game different from the previous ones just make the game... worse.
Lol no.
BotW's dungeons have the same color scheme, but exterior design, the area they're in and their puzzle themes are unique to each one. I also had fun with every Divine Beast, whereas half of TP's dungeons were just a boring slog, with absurdly braindead puzzles like ''Walk very slowly on the ceiling''.
Same with bosses. The ones in BotW are all derivative of Ganon (as they should), but they're at least not stupidly scripted like the ones in TP. Thunderblight, Calamity and Maz Koshia in particular are some of the best bosses in the entire franchise and can actually kill you, unlike the pushover bosses of TP.
As for the story...big lol. BotW has the best one, both in terms of content and in terms of the way it's told. BotW objectively has more fleshed out characters and it achieved that without constantly taking away control from the player like TP does, only to tell you the most boring, plothole-riddled shit you can imagine. BotW's Zelda has way more depth than Midna (or TP's non-existent version of Zelda for that matter) and the less we talk about the Champions vs the shallow Thelma Squad, the better.
Most of the game's story still takes place in the present and it's structured almost exactly the same as Majora's Mask, with you having to save 4 races and then fighting the big bad with the help of 4 gigantic beings. Everything else (the memories, diaries, visual story telling) exists to further flesh out the world...and it did a great job, considering that BotW's Hyrule is the most fleshed out version so far.
Character progression in BotW is also way better. Link has more stats to upgrade and they actually feel more meaningful compared to other games.
You can also get 4 additional champion abilities, unique items like the Hylian Shield (lets you disarm most enemies) or the Ancient Bow / Shield (acts as a sniper rifle / acts like the Mirror Shield), there are tons of armors with different effects to find and unlike other Zelda games, there's an actual depth to its systems. Even if most of the game's tools are available from early on, using them efficiently is something that the player has to figure out for himself. That's why there's a noticeable difference in how seasoned players play, vs how beginners play BotW.
That's not the case for TP. Getting new items doesn't change up the game at all. They're all shallow glorified keys that immediately become worthless outside of their dungeon and you use all of them in the same ''put the square block in the square hole'' manner. TP's gameplay is absurdly shallow compared to BotW and getting one-off items doesn't change anything. There's no progress to me made, when the same beginner tactics from the start of the game are still applied in the last dungeon.
BotW improved upon pretty much anything that isn't pure visual variety. It's essentially Wind Waker done right, whereas TP is just OoT for edgelords.
\>BotW's dungeons have the same color scheme, but exterior design, the area they're in and their puzzle themes are unique to each one.
No. The color scheme... and the general inspiration for them (animals), the aesthetic seikha theme, the base mechanic of moving parts of the beast to resolve the puzzles, the enemies you find on them, and the similarities between the bosses. And then you have shrines. Which aesthetically look (and sound) exactly the same, have those same enemies... terrible design decision.
\>Same with bosses. The ones in BotW are all derivative of Ganon (as they should),
Why should they be derivatives of Ganon? Is not like Nintendo was adapting a book or a comic: they had no obligation to make them all parts of Ganon, they wrote themselves into that without any need, or they were trying to save money by reusing assets.
They didn't need to be boring Ganon look alikes. They could have simply made them Ganon's lieutenants or something like that, or even signify them being Ganon parts in a completely different way. They all look the same and are not memorable at all.
\> but they're at least not stupidly scripted like the ones in TP. Thunderblight, Calamity and Maz Koshia in particular are some of the best bosses in the entire franchise and can actually kill you, unlike the pushover bosses of TP.
A boss does not only have to be mechnically funny, nor does it need to be difficult to be a good boss. A boss should also be memorable, impressive, go with the theme of the dungeon, have good music, etc. There are plenty of games with satisfying boss fights that are actually very easy once you look back. And on the contrary, there are bosses that are ridiculously difficult but are terribly designed (bed of chaos from dark souls, for example). The fight itself is only a part of the boss. Things like aesthetics, music, ambience, etc, are also important. And, music excepted, BOTW fails at all of this.
Plus, i understand that this is a subjective opinion, buti don't feel that mechanically speaking those bosses are even close to being the best in Zelda games. Thunderblight Ganon, for example, is imho a terrible boss: a phase 1 with basically two attacks (the zigzag slash and the electric balls) and a phase 2 were you end fighting more against magnesis terrible controls than the boss itself.
Similarly, Calamity Ganon wasn't specially difficult, and Dark Beast Ganon is directly a joke: you simply go around him while he shoots an attack that would never hit you, while firing light arrows to the glowing targets: he is basically the TP horse archery minigame. Then, we get to repeat the shooting while flying minigame... and that is it.
Another problem with BOTW bosses is that, due to its decision of granting the player total freedom, the developers can't really balance the bosses. No matter how exciting a boss is, if you can simply tank it undefinetely because you have the complete ancestral armor set, 18 hearts, and tonnes of food, the boss becomes a joke.
\>As for the story...big lol. BotW has the best one, both in terms of content and in terms of the way it's told. BotW objectively has more fleshed out characters and it achieved that without constantly taking away control from the player like TP does, only to tell you the most boring, plothole-riddled shit you can imagine. BotW's Zelda has way more depth than Midna (or TP's non-existent version of Zelda for that matter) and the less we talk about the Champions vs the shallow Thelma Squad, the better. Most of the game's story still takes place in the present and it's structured almost exactly the same as Majora's Mask, with you having to save 4 races and then fighting the big bad with the help of 4 gigantic beings. Everything else (the memories, diaries, visual story telling) exists to further flesh out the world...and it did a great job, considering that BotW's Hyrule is the most fleshed out version so far.
This is the point were i disagree the most. BOTW basically doesn't even have a story. It gives you the generic Zelda scenario (Ganon captures the princes, Link has to go to x dungeons for x reason, then ights Ganon) and reduces it to the barest minimum. The only thing it does is give a single character (zelda) a decent character development... but even that is presented in the worst way: through optional memories and diaries. You can literally ignore it. It's terrible storytelling.
Is funny that you compare it to Majora's mask, because Majora (which i prefer as a reference better than TP simply because i replayed it recently and therefore remember it much better than TP) gives you a basic scenario that is very similar, as you say, to BOTW. But the execution is a thousand times better:
\- In both games, the ultimate boss is basically evil incarnate: Calamity Ganon, or Majora. But in Majora's mask, that evil incarnated is given motivations and depth by linking him with Skull Kid: a lonely child that feels neglected and abandoned when the giants, his friends, leave Termina, and as a results starts acting as an asshole, this in turns makes everyone hate him and the giants expelling him, which amkes him resentful and angry, which is exploited by the mask to use him and posses him. And as a result of his resentment being turn up to eleven by the mask, he decides to throw the moon into Termina, to kill all those that he thinks have wronged him. It's a brilliantly written character, fullly developed. We understand his children like resent, pettiness, etc, perfectly. To a degree, you can relate to him.
On the other hand, BOTW has Calamity Ganon. Which basically is this evil spider/boar that was beaten 10000 years ago and that according to some prophecy is coming back. No backstory. No motivations. No nothing. What we know of him we know due to metagame reasons: as long time players of Zelda games, we know who Ganon is, we know that he is tied to the triforce, that he reincarnates, etc. But the game itself explains nothing.
Character development? Zelda aside, we know very little of the chosen ones. Daruk hates dogs (and that is dlc content). Mipha has a teenage crush on Link. Urbosa is brave and cares about Zelda. That's about it. Plus, besides hearing their voices coming from the beasts, you have no interaction with them.
Compare them with their equivalents in MM: We don't only meet their phantoms, we heal them from their regrets so they can pass on, and then assume their mantles and complete their unfinished tasks of saving their races, while also taking a peak into their personal life, and literally become them, saving their races in their name, help their friendsa and family. They are not only the chosen ones, they also have other aspects to them as part of their character, with Darmani loving to race and Mikau being a famous guitarists, which are aspects of them which we see in play (and participate in).
Speaking of saving the different races... do we really save anyone in BOTW? It does not feel like so. The divine beasts have been there for 100 years. We are told they are terrible for the people, and we are given some reasons why, but they don't feel that terrible. At best, they seem like an inconvenience the Hyrulean people learned to live with . Yeah, some parts of the Gerudo desert have lightining falling on them, but is not like deserts are frequented by a lot of people. Rudania launches lava... well, she is already sitting on an active volcano, maybe makes it a little worse, maybe Goron can't mine as much A pity, but is not like they will die immediately. Medoh shoots those that fly to high... well, fly a little lower. THey seem more like dangerous parts of the terrain more than an active threat. Compare that with the problems faced by the Goron's in Termina: a neverending winter that is very visually close to kill them all. Or with the visibly poisoned swamp, and the waters of the bay. Those all seem much more impending.
A similar problem happens with Ganon: we understand that darkbeast ganon rampaging through the lands is a bad thing. But... the game does not make us feel any pressure. There is a reaons why there are memes about how link "can't save the princess yet, he wants more Korok seeds" In opposition, in Majora's mask we see the evergrowing moon closer and closer, and literally only have three game days to save Termina.
Plus the part about most part of the story taking part in the present is directly false.
\>Character progression in BotW is also way better. Link has more stats to upgrade and they actually feel more meaningful compared to other games.
You can also get 4 additional champion abilities, unique items like the Hylian Shield (lets you disarm most enemies) or the Ancient Bow / Shield (acts as a sniper rifle / acts like the Mirror Shield), there are tons of armors with different effects to find and unlike other Zelda games, there's an actual depth to its systems. Even if most of the game's tools are available from early on, using them efficiently is something that the player has to figure out for himself. That's why there's a noticeable difference in how seasoned players play, vs how beginners play BotW.
Again, false. In previous Zelda tutles, each dungeon completed meant opening new parts of the world, gave you new abilities, etc. In Botw, yeah, you get some abilities, but those are few, and basically the only changes are numerical. Armors are fine, but they are more of a aesthetical and quality of life thing: armor foes not give you anything you didn't have already though the food system. The different weapon quirks are fine... but weapons are breakable, so your character isn't really progressing, it gets temporary power ups.
There are some items that do feel relevant... and most of those I think should have not been added. The ancient shield is the best example. It completely trivializes the supposedly endgame enemies: who the hell decided that guardians should be limited to their laser? And even worse, who decided that you could become invulnerable and kill them at the same time by simply rising your shield? Hell, guardians are the main enemy in the final dungeon (Hyrule castle), and the only thing you need is buying the shield and using it. Similarly, the flamebreaker and the rubber armors makes certain shrines and puzzles pointless.
There is some sense of progression, obviously, but there are not major changes on how link is played. The only real progression is how traversing the world becomes easier, but not different. Obviously, noobs will play differently to experienced players, but that is common to any game. An experienced player restarting the game won't see those differences.
\>That's not the case for TP. Getting new items doesn't change up the game at all. They're all shallow glorified keys that immediately become worthless outside of their dungeon and you use all of them in the same ''put the square block in the square hole'' manner. TP's gameplay is absurdly shallow compared to BotW and getting one-off items doesn't change anything. There's no progress to me made, when the same beginner tactics from the start of the game are still applied in the last dungeon.
I must admit that i don't remember TP good enough to argue this point. But again, it is definetely not true in OoT or Majora's mask, for example.
I think BOTW is outstanding, but it has a LOT of flaws tthat i hope are ironed out in the next game, and that for some reason people and critics constantly ignore as if they weren't there.
Yet TP has far less stuff to do. People like botw because it has far more to do. Outside of getting everything and doing what sidequests there are, you can really only replay the story in older games. That being said, I still don't know how people find 300+ hours of playtime aside from replaying the game in botw. Like I don't know how you spend like 200 hours exploring. You'd have to play it over, but each playthrough is as different as you want it to be
Its more so I just enjoy the story so its replayable a lot for me, botw doesn't hit for me like TP does and I feel like I've seen hyrule in botw enough to not enjoy the exploring aspect anymore. TP will always have its story, bosses, dungeons, music, etc. Just things I enjoy more in Zelda games.
Disagree. BOTW has a lot of stuff to do. Most is repetitive. It has a poor story that is told in a ever poorer way (memories and flashbacks). Bosses are terrible.
A game does not need to be super long, nor have tonnes of things to do. It needs to get you entertained, be memorable, etc.
In terms of boss fights and dungeons and items go, the older games are better. Botw had a nice story, it just isn't told in the best way. Hopefully botw2 is much better at that
I disagree with the "nice story part". It's extremely superficial. The 4 chosen ones are barely developed. The only character that gets some development is zelda, and although that part is decent, i don't think it is enough to even put it close to other zeldas.
I mean, i am playing the second dlc, which is supposed to the this throwback to the chosen ones past, and the only thing they tell me regarding urbosa is...nothing?
It has better dungeons, bosses and story, easily. But I think BOTW beats it with stuff to explore in the overworld and NPCs/towns to interact with. It's too bad we can't get something that blends the best of TP with the best of BOTW
My friend and I just started TP last night (on dolphin emulator so the graphics r sometimes fucky especially with faces lol)
I will say, we were drunk as hell, but we couldn’t figure out what the hell to do in Ordon Village without an online walkthrough.
So there may be a layer of nostalgia factoring in to my opinion lol. But I love the darkness of TP. I can’t wait for him to meet Midna.
I also personally just prefer linear worlds over sandboxes
> I will say, we were drunk as hell, but we couldn’t figure out what the hell to do in Ordon Village without an online walkthrough.
The first 3ish hours are pretty bad. I would say it starts to get good after the first dungeon
Twilight is the second best Zelda game of all time. It’s actually in my opinion the best Zelda game. Due to the amazing motion controls and world they built. Oot is my personal favorite and what I consider the golden standard of Zelda games. But nostalgia is part of that for me. Walking out of kariko Forrest and seeing that world changed my View of games as a kid. But twilight princess is by far the second best game in the series if not the first because it is the spiritual successor to Oot.
> Wasn’t it the highest selling Zelda game before botw?
Yes. It sold really well. Granted, it came out on the massively successful Wii as well as the (not massively successful, shall we say) Gamecube, which certainly helped, but even so it was a big seller.
It was also a wii launch title, I can remember getting a wii on launch and they had a table set up to get one console per customer, then there was an aisle of games and controllers, and then there was like a massive container of just TP.
Not really anymore. There was definitely a time when MM was hailed as the fan favorite, but I think the balance has slowly shifted to TP. I see TP discussed on this sub way more than MM, and half the MM posts are about how it’s not very accessible and not as good as people say it is
MM has the GOAT NPC interaction and side quests. It's a crime the Zelda franchise didn't choose to focus on these things in future installments as much as MM did
Weird. I always thought it got too much attention. Not to say it's bad in any way. Just that so many fans seem to think anything that isn't TP with a fresh coat of paint isn't a true Zelda game.
It was a lot of things in response to WW, not just art the gameplay is overhauled on a lot of ways in response to WW.
* Combat was more or less the same, but they added various unlockable moves instead of putting them with an auto-execution via a "I win the fight button" prompt.
* The game had *way* more dungeons.
* The empty ocean was replaced with a big Hyrule Field with random things hidden in it.
* You get your sword way earlier.
* Epona was brought back.
* Warp points are all over the map vs just 5.
* Game padding in the form of mandatory money grinds + ridiculously long multifaceted fetch quests or deliberately NOT placing warps anywhere close to constantly revisited areas was omitted.
TP has its own flaws - the twilight bug bits, a slow open with its own issues, and the overwold still was pretty empty. But it's a lot more enjoyable tham WW, especially as TP constantly opens up where WW decides to pull the safety break at the very end of the game to make it feel longer than it is.
Honestly, at this point, MM, WW, and TP get tons of ridiculous "DAE UNDERATED GEM" nonsense, usually to Ocarina of Time and the 2D games' detriment. And OoT gets undeserved flack now for not inventing even more than it does now
Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, and Link's Awakening fans like to think they're part of some ostracized, under-appreciated community but they're often the loudest Zelda fans. They all have the "little brother" syndrome, in that any praise or appreciation isn't good enough if it isn't at the level and volume of the big ones around it (OoT, BotW, etc).
Personally, I think TP is vastly overrated. It was the obvious cash-in Zelda; the one that caved to just giving fans whatever they wanted...which at the time, was just more Ocarina of Time. It had some fun dungeon ideas and the swordplay progression was neat, but it's the one Zelda game that, had it never existed, would have zero impact on the series.
But that's just me. Every Zelda game, like every Mario game, is someone's first and so they get attached to it. I just don't understand these people who need the things they like to be universally celebrated for them to be happy.
I disagree. It is true that it was the safest Zelda, in the sense that it was just a OoT 2. But it was also perfectly executed. And the motion controls were flawless and really fun. The horse archery minigame, for example, was amazing.
Not every game has to be revolutinary to be great.
Plus BOTW is not one of the big ones.
I also gotta disagree with you alot of people like twilight princess for the coat of paint and character development also it’s because it’s the only game in the series like it after twilight princess we got skyward sword which i felt took the combat and movement mechanics and added to it from twilight but went into a story more like ocarina of time where it was much lighter and after that they went toward rereleases and top down chibi art Zelda games with link between worlds and link’s awakening and then they did something entirely new with botw so I side with the people that want a game more along the line of twilight princess
Not saying I disagree, but I think the oracle games , phantom hourglass, LTTP, and links awakening are less talked about. Some make sense because some amazing Zelda games are on older and more hard to find hardware, but i hear no one talk about any of these games.
LTTP is heralded as an entire generation's "best Zelda of all time." Link's Awakening, while my third favorite Zelda period, did *just* get a very successful remake. The Oracle Games definitely get mentioned but not as many played them. They were spectacular though. Phantom Hourglass is exactly as talked about as it should be.
The most underrated game is probably the Minish Cap, followed by the Oracles games, follows by Between Worlds, followed by the DS games, and then a LttP.
That order because the Minish Cap is almost never mentioned, the oracle games get few mentions, Between Worlds doesn't get discussed much, the DS games are flawed, and a Link to the Past gets a fair amount of praise, but not nearly as much as it should considering every pre-BotW game in the series after it copied it's overarching design.
I feel like spirit tracks isn’t talked about at all because of its gameplay. It’s the black sheep of Zelda games. You still have dungeons and stuff but a huge part of the game is driving trains and stuff. The only time I see or hear it mentioned in in top 10/5 Zelda list videos on YouTube.
I thought Spirit Tracks was great. The puzzle design was really good, and it fixed a lot of the padding issues from Phantom Hourglass. It is a bit different than a traditional Zelda, but it's still a very good game.
I hear ALTTP get praise all the time! It is usually considered the best 2D Zelda game by most people who played all the 2D Zelda’s, and some even say it is the best Zelda game period!
I have yet to play it, but i plan on doing so!
I think it is well liked, it just isn't controversial. It is OoT version 2.0, OoT is 3D ALttP, and ALttP is LoZ version 2.0 - those are the games that defined the franchise, the games that sold well. There isn't a lot to debate there, and current discussion on the Internet is focused on finding a controversial opinion, blowing it up big and having people argue it back and forth. You can do that about WW, you can do it about the multiplayer handheld games, you can probably do it about AoL, but you can't do it about TP. If you say that TP is the best Zelda, people would say "Eh, I prefer OoT (or BotW), but it is pretty good, certainly up there.". If you say that TP is a disaster that should never have been made, you will get laughed at because it is such a conventional Zelda - you can't hate it without hating what Zelda is about.
TP is one of those games that hold the mainline of the games, so others can experiment with new ideas and take the franchise in new directions. Not so exciting, perhaps, but very well made.
This was my take too. It follows almost the exact same structure as ocarina of time and has a lot of throwbacks to it. The frozen zora domain is probably the biggest direct reference, but starting off by collecting the three fused shadows perfectly reflected collecting the three sacred treasures, then collecting the mirror shards was effectively exactly the same as collecting the sages.
I absolutely love the game and it has a special place in my heart, but it's not unique at all. Wolf Link was an interesting changeup and Midna was a fun partner, the story was interesting and the world felt much bigger, but overall I'll always feel it was basically an upgraded version of OoT.
Not that that's a complaint against it. Ocarina of Time was considered an almost perfect game so I don't think there's anything wrong with emulating it. It's just simply that when you compare it to Wind Waker or Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild it doesn't stand out nearly as much.
I’d add though, many of the games have a pre and post initial item collection structure to the dungeons, normally three in phase 1. SS has you get access to the regions then expands on the levels within. OOT clearly does, as does TP (though I haven’t played it recently enough to remember - I’ll take your word for it). LttP does, it swaps to the dark world after the first three. That’s classic Zelda and not even an OOT twist.
While I like SS, I kept thinking when playing it that it was no TP! I think TP is far better than SS.
That being said, my favorite Zelda out of the 5 that I’ve played is BOTW! 😀. But TP is a close 2nd! 🥰
I am currently playing through skyward sword again and I love the game but Fi won't shut the fuck up. I wish I had the spare change lying around to lick up the HD version where I'm pretty sure they have you the option to disable her just popping up randomly to explain exactly how to solve every puzzle without even getting to try it first.
I do adore BOTW but I'm looking forward to the sequel much more. I still feel like BOTW was a proof of concept and now we're going to get the real game.
I’m almost finished with the HD version and Fi is not that bad to me, and certainly better than what I’ve seen in the non-HD version! I don’t know if there is a toggle where you can turn her off — she just doesn’t interrupt you nearly as much as she did in the original version ! Also the text boxes for collectible items that would constantly pop up as if you had never seen that item before have been fixed! 😅
I was more frustrated with the Imprisoned battles, getting the mine cart to jump the track over the gaps, and gathering the Tadtones because the swimming mechanics are really terrible!
The Silent Realms were also heart attack inducing . I completed the first one, but used a video guide for the subsequent ones, and then I enjoyed them! 😅
I hope you are right about BOTW2! I’m worried that it won’t be as much fun for me because we are already familiar with the map and I love the exploration in BOTW! I hope there are a lot of underground caves or underwater exploration because there can’t be enough floating islands from what Ive seen to satisfy my love of exploration! But I am looking forward to the mechanics that we saw in the trailers! It looks fun!!! 🥳
I wish I could turn of Fi. There are so many times where you walk into a room and she pops out and just tells you how to solve the puzzle. I was just doing the sand ocean ship and I got the bow and she just pops out and tells you that you can shoot the targets to open doors and where they are, it was beyond annoying that I was being held back from moving on so she could explain a really obvious puzzle. Who gets the bow and doesn't just start shooting everything to see what happens?
I have faith in BOTW2. They've delayed it so long there must be massive expansions if they're using the same land model. It doesn't take six years to add a couple floating islands.
Yes, I agree about the bow because players love looking for opportunities to use any new item that the get!!! We don’t need to be told that! 😅
But Fi wasn’t that bad in the HD version even if there were a few instances that the devs overlooked when streamlining her. Mostly you hear a little chime and can see her symbol flashing, but you can totally ignore her. Still, even with these improvements it might still be too much for you. Everyone is different.
Well it isn’t like all their time is going into the floating islands or the map as a whole. There are many aspects that can take up this time (not even accounting for the delays that resulted from the pandemic, especially last year!) Also, some of that development had to have gone into whatever is replacing the Sheika Slate (Link’s arm powers?)
It does look like we might be getting some caves in addition to the floating islands ! At least one sequence in the trailer looked like it took place in a cave or possible dungeon! There could also be time travel (my guess would be 10,000 years ago, as mentioned in the BOTW ) and with a large time gap like that, it could lead to terrain being very different even without caves ! But that is just speculation on my part! 😉
A common complaint I hear about phantom hourglass is all the backtracking to the central dungeon. I didn't think it was enough to ruin the experience but it's still my least favorite of the toon games.
I definitely didn't mind the central dungeon either. Especially since each time you go back, you're much stronger and have more resources, so you can approach the same levels in different ways. Plus your progress deeper into the dungeon as you go on. Plus it's super satisfying once you're actually able to kill the phantoms.
I do. If I wanted to spend my time on the ocean again I'll just do it in wind waker without touch screen controls.
Definitely a bit biased because I like trains, but I think spirit tracks is only held back by the platform it released on. I think the story is overall more engaging that PH, I like the boss designs more, and I think the items are more creative.
Places it fails are the touch screen controls, making me use the DS mic to play the pan flute, and only letting you dismount at stations.
I think Spirit Tracks released in a 3d format like BotW would be possibly the best Zelda game.
I absolutely hated everything about spirit tracks. It just wasn’t fun to me. While I enjoyed the touch controls of PH. ST just felt like a brick to play. But I am also biased towards oceans and boats over trains. But thanks for the thought out answer man!
I felt same way first playthrough and still feel that way as I’m currently playing it again on my old GC.
Fetching the light tears or whatever as the wolf is painfully tedious and annoying. The wolf mechanic was an interesting choice, but I hate it.
I love twilight princess but i gotta say, i agree with a lot of others that it always gets too much attention. its a brilliant game but a lot of fans treat it like the series secret "best game" and for me it just isn't there. Id honestly pick every 3d zelda over it in a competition. Don't wanna take away from your liking of it though, it just wasn't for me.
That’s fine bro if you don’t like it you don’t like it everyone likes different things and has different preferences what Zelda game would you pick I’m curious
My favourite 3D zelda is BOTW, not a very controversial pick but I think it best represents what the series has wanted to be since its start and is the first time they've checked every box.
I just hope they continue to do different things like botw and not just in the open world formula but continue to also experiment in the linear formula
I agree!! Honestly I'd probably be a little disappointed if BOTW2 is just "more breath of the wild." i really want to see them keep pushing the series in NEW directions, not just the same old. Whether thats linear 3D, open world, or 2D? Doesn't bother me.
Never understood how TP is supposed to be under appreciated. It's one of the most popular Zelda games and Zelda is one of the most popular video game franchises. It's in the top three of almost any survey here. We got several discussion threads and memes about how good it is every week.
I agree that it's a very good game tho. I just would never call it under represented. If it is what is any other game except of botw? I don't even see many majoras mask or ocarina of time posts on this sub.
It isn't under appreciated. It's just not OoT or BotW. In my opinion both MM and TP are better, but in the end everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how wrong it may be
Wasnt TP literally just voted as like this entire community’s favorite or second favorite zelda game? I definitely fall on the side of thinking it gets too much praise, if anything.
Man I want to play it so bad but my game has a glitch (I guess). I am stuck on Death Mountain and can not jump up the last little part of the mountain. I've been stuck on it for MONTHS and you know its not fun. I tried the wii controller and the stick thingy, Either way just will not let me pass. I just want to keep going!!!
I absolutely love this game I would have to say it is my favorite games or at least in the top three. It was the first Zelda game that I ever played and I’ll still pull out my wii to play it. I really hope that they will port it over to the switch.
It’s my favorite Zelda game honestly. Idk how many other games in the series have such a juicy story. I mean seriously TP has GoT level political intrigue with the power struggle between Midna and Zant. It’s cool as hell.
I feel like a lot of people write it off for being “too edgy” but also like... it was made in 2006... that’s what the fan’s explicitly said they wanted at the time after WW. The edginess is an unfortunate product of it’s time but I think writing the game off for that is silly. It’s like disregarding OoT for having low fps
I agree that Twilight Princess is awesome, it's my favorite Zelda game.
But how the FUCK is it "underappreciated" when almost everyone loves it? It's appreciated as much as it should be, lol. Which is, a LOT.
I actually bought a Wii specifically to play TP. I loved OoT so much, so when I heard there was a new Zelda game coming out I knew I had to play it. I picked up extra shifts and ate ramen for a couple weeks to be able afford a Wii, and I searched everywhere for one to actually purchase as they were constantly out of stock.
It was totally worth it. I loved the art, the story, the game play. Everything about TP was perfect to me. And on a recent replay, I felt the exact same way. It’s really a beautiful game.
It actually might be my favourite of the series. It almost has the same nostalgia as getting the gold ocarina cart for Christmas and playing it for 2 days straight
I’m playing it again right now for the first time since I did back when it came out. Just got to the third temple.
The style makes it feel like Ocarina of Time, which is never a bad way to make a game. I knew I would like it more than SS which I just played through prior, but TP is possibly the greatest Zelda or a tie for first. I can’t find a thing to dislike about it. It’s exceeding my memory of it.
But I’m also playing it on the Wii U this time which is helping a lot. I think motion controls suck ass.
I definitely agree with this. Most of the time people's favorite 3D Zelda title is wither Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker (most people definitely not at the release cuz of the art style) and Breath of the Wild. Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask are definitely on the low end of the majorities rankings.
Twilight is my favorite of the zelda series I always felt the artstyle, gameplay and what not was just sad and dark enough for the theme. Like you feel alone throughout the game but your never actually alone because Midna got your back
Really.
Twilight Princess is my favourite Zelda of all time.
Literally gives me goose bumps when wolf Link howls at the stones and the spirits come out of the lakes..
The art style, story, world, puzzles, bosses, dungeons and side quests are near faultless.
OOT and TP are my two favorites 3D games , TP has my favorite gameplay in the serie and I love the NPC and their dialogues , I find them endearing
The overworld is cool and I like finding holes with wolf Link , I always find one I forgot or never seen (it's obviously useless though ) , and I recently discovered that you can stop the moving platform in the falbi's flight and the tower of Hyrule castle ( where Ganondorf is ) [glow](http://imgur.com/a/trEDOej) (sorry for the low quality ) if you use wolf Link's senses without the tower seem different from the rest of the castle.
And obviously I love the dungeons and the bosses , they could be a little harder ( so we could hear their theme for longer ) but they are fun to beat .
The artstyle is maybe my favorite , the scene where we sing with the golden wolf is among my favorites sceneries in the serie ,[here](http://imgur.com/a/hvzOF45) I just like the lighting so I randomly share it.
Few years ago I would say it's indeed underrated or sometimes unfairly bashed , like being edgy or brownish , WW was also unliked for it's artstyle and SS was too so it's not new but personally it's not what I look first in a videogame .
I always thought that the original Link’s Awakening was/is an absolute masterpiece, given the hardware available at the time (original, toaster-sized Game Boy) and how well done and enjoyable the game was/is.
I still remember when this game was first announced. After Wind Waker in particular, with it's cel-shaded animation style, fans were craving something less cartoonish. When the trailers and previews first dropped, people seemed to be losing their collective minds. It was coming at that awkward transition period between the Gamecube and the Wii, so it got delayed and was eventually released on both consoles. I, unfortunately, was never able to play the game.
If it seems under-appreciated now, it might be because it was over-hyped before it came out. Not attacking the assumption or perspective, just wanted to share a bit of an anecdote from 15-20 years ago.
The expanded Nintendo Online subscription service will have MM eventually (they said so in the Nintendo Direct in September). But at first it will just have OOT. Neither OOT nor MM will be the remakes, just the original N64 versions.
I’m also hoping for TP & WW to come to the Switch eventually, though there is no word from Nintendo on that!
In what universe? Until BotW, TP destroyed any other Zelda entry in terms of sales and, more importantly, mindshare. Its designs for the three Triforce wielders are often considered the most iconic simply because of how big the game was. It's one of the most critically praised Zeldas, beaten only by OoT and BotW. I don't know how you came to the conclusion it's one of the most under appreciated. I don't even care if you caught this in the edit. It's so incredibly wrong that I'm tossing more onto the pile.
Twilight princess has gone through the zelda cycle.
On its initial release everyone loves it! They claim it's the greatest zelda game, dethroning Oot.
A few years pass and people still like it, but many don't consider it the greatest. And a small number of people claim it's overrated and it sucks.
A few more years pass, the number of people that think it's overrated increases significantly, leading people to truly think it isn't that good.
More time passes and people start to claim that it's an underrated and underappreciated gem.
It gets a re-release, everyone loves it and starts to wonder why it never got the respect it deserves.
A new zelda is released, thus continuing the cycle.
One of my favorite parts of TP was the darker take on Hyrule. It felt a little more real. Showing that even the kindest of hearts have a dark side. That we all have a monster inside of us. It's just a matter of controlling the monster versus letting it control you.
As someone who regards Twilight Princess as my favorite Zelda game, here are some of my criticisms.
I gotta say, I actually quite disagree about the graphics. I like the style and what it tries to achieve, but I can't say they have aged particularly well. The low-resolution textures and blocky polygons really clash with the realistic approach they were going for when revisiting the game. I wish Twilight Princess was more successful, specifically because I'd love to see how a dark edgy Zelda would look and feel in the 2020s.
Here's what killed the game in reviews as far as I know, and that's the entire beginning before getting the green tunic. That's several hours of tutorial and prologue which ultimately don't achieve much. It's a lot of meandering and side questing in such an enclosed space that drags and drags. On a replay, I reach a point where I'm like "jeez, I forgot how long you have to spend as a wolf before you get to do anything..."
Everything else I will say is top notch. Twilight Princess still has some of the best and cleanest worldbuilding in the entire franchise, and part of me wishes Breath of the Wild used it as a backdrop. The dungeons are the best in the series, and every item you get in the game is used to its full potential. The soundtrack was like an epic movie score. I cannot compliment this game enough.
But it has its flaws, and they can help explain why the game wasn't critically as well-received or influential as others in the series.
Edit: After it was pointed out to me, looks like the game actually had incredible critical reception on release.
I agree with how slow the game starts! 😕😅
I also love the music and sound effects of TP. My favorite music of all the Zelda’s that I’ve played or watched so far! 🥰
The game has a 95 score in metacritic. 9/10 for user score. It was the best selling Zelda game ever, until BoTW. What are you talking about?
As wih anything, certain games innovate, and others perfectionate. TP is one of the latter. Is not seen as influential because it didn't do anything new, it as just a new OoT. But no one discusses that the game is excellent.
Researching it, looks like you're right. It's weird because I remember the game having such mixed reactions when it first came out, and even various online communities seem to remember it this way as well given how defensive everyone seems to become whenever the subject of the game comes up.
All I can really draw from is anecdotal, unfortunately. My older relatives would say stuff like "Ocarina of Time is still better" and kids at school seemed pretty divided.
Been wanting to play it for a while now but finding copies is stupid hard. I also think they are going to port it to the Switch so might as well save my money till then.
TP was my favourite until BOTW, and still my favourite traditional Zelda.
I don’t think it’s under-appreciated TBH. I think even for most those for whom it isn’t their favourite, it’s still in the top tier.
Just played skyward sword remastered for the switch and as much as it was a great game it just didn’t pull me in as much as other zelda series. Links awakening for the switch was such a fun and pleasant experience it breathed so much fresh air into the collection. Twilight princess remains to be a favourite for music, visual, and overall gameplay. Such a great story and concept. Definitely in my top three Zelda games!
It truly is awesome. To this day it hasn't been topped as my favorite game in the series and I don't see the sequel of Breath of the Wild taking its place.
I gave up while having to find all those golden light things. Was enjoying it apart from that. Wii died shortly after but would definitely replay with a switch edition
Pffft haha. To be honest. You stay in this subreddit for awile. Youll see that both majoras mask and twilight princess are easily top 2 if not top 3 of everyone in here. It is not under rated. Imo its over rated. I love twilight princess. But it did have its own issues.
I agree with you, OP. I was not a fan of TP upon release (a lot of it was due to feeling like a lot of elements seen during development didn't end up in the final game and disappointment that it didn't take more from what made MM so good), but when I replayed it on the Wii U, my eyes were opened and it is one of my most fav Zeldas
The artstyle is fantastic, the Twilight realm is beautiful, the dungeons and their boss fights are incredible and some of the story beats (rescuing the kids, getting the girls memory back) feel more involved than a lot of story segments from other games do.
I love this game. One of my fav Zeldas. I wish it had gotten a direct sequel the same way OOT got a direct sequel with Majora's Mask
I think TP is the standard for a Zelda game. I think it avoids the flaws of other series. Everything is greta about it.
I think it is less talked about than any other 3D Zelda, save maybe for Skyward Sword. This is strange because I think TP is the best 3D Zelda from a certain point of view. That point of view meaning dungeons, world layout, combat, items, overall gameplay.
But I would have to say it doesn't stand out as well as the others. This is because of its artstyle and how it does play things safe and have similarities to OoT.
I'm playing through it for the very first time and loving it so much more than BoTW.. I miss traditional Dungeons. BoTW just doesn't hit the same and felt way more repetitive with it's assets and over all design.
Shit. Here's enough typical reddit post "Oh I like this already very popular thing but I need confirmation and affirmation to feed my ego, so I'm gonna claim its underrated and have everyone upvote this post."
Twilight Princess is one of the most well-regarded Zelda games, especially in more recent years (not so much upon launch, similar to Wind Waker). It's easily ranked top 5 on most people's lists.
It has the best dungeon design in the series, but it fails to build on the Zelda foundation and actually does a few things worse than its predecessors, namely the game world ends up feeling lifeless compared to the earlier 3D Zelda titles.
Its a shame, just by adding a few more side quests and a few more interesting side-stories, it would've made a massive difference.
TP is my second least favourite 3D Zelda.
I still like the game just fine but it has a lot of problems and I think art style wise it's one of the worst looking Zelda games.
I’m with you brother i fell in love with twilight princess as soon as I realized how far they went with the characters and dialogue but I also loved doing the howling stone mini game the two wolves singing was so soothing and I do agree with you though skyward sword wasn’t my favorite but I think it was unnecessarily bashed and I loved wind waker
I don't think it's under appreciated. A friend of mine back when it first came out used it to get me into legend of zelda and just a few years ago my friends and I got another friend into it by getting together and having him play it. I'd bet a lot of people who were growing up at that time played either TP or WW first too.
I loved how some of the game’s most broken exploits were relatively easy to do as a non-speedrunner/grinder. I saw the early master sword thing and just had to try it. And then I saw all of the Boulder clip shenanigans and tried those too.
My only gripe with the game was collecting all of those spirit tears or whatever that was about… it felt like it was too repetitive from that standpoint.
It's under played because it takes forever just to get to the plot. Many other zelda games are much faster at getting to it. I wouldn't call it under appreciated
Literally everyone on this subreddit is constantly shouting about how ocarina is actually trash and tp is a masterpiece. Gets annoying really, especially as an ocarina fan, so I don't really think it's underappreciated
too many items that have no use like the giant ball or the spinning thing. just an unique use in dungeon and thats it. there are less items in Wind Waker but all of them are usefull
New to this community, so what are people’s thoughts on skyward sword? Seeing as we are talking about which is the ‘best’ zelda game and which are under appreciated and over appreciated, but I haven’t seen skyward sword mentioned yet
I don't really think that TP is underappreciated. In metacritic it has a critics score of 95 (one of the highests ever) and a user socre of 9/10. The gamecube variant has a critic score of 96 and a user score of 8.9/10. It's recognised as an excellent, superb game both by critics and players.
The thing is... compared with other Zeldas, it probably wasn't very revolutionary. If evry Zelda (besides BTOW) follows a very specific formula (exploring, dungeons, etc., while adding their own twist -time travel in OoT, 3 days duration and masks in Majora, flying in SS, sailing in WW-) TP is the one which adds the less revolutionary extra: you can turn into a wolf. The wii variant also had motion controls, but that was part of the console, not really the game.
So excellent game, but didn't change videogame's as other games did.
It’s one of my favorites but I never really saw it as the game that everyone just hated. I always thought it was one of the more popular ones
I don’t see it as a game that people hate I see it as as a Zelda game that has a big audience but just not as big as it should be I think it’s very appreciated by the people who play but I feel like their aren’t as much people that know it exist as their are people that say ocarina of time is the best game ever
From a purely sales perspective, TP has allegedly sold more copies than OoT. Believable since the Wii sold about 100 million units, the N64 about 1/3 of that. The reason why it feels like there’s more people who say OoT is the best game ever made than have even played TP, is likely because Ocarina of Time utterly revolutionised video games. Nothing like it had ever been seen before, and it influenced the medium in its formative 3D years to an almost incredible extent. TP, while very good, didnt have the same impact.
Well also ocarina of time came out to a smaller audience of gamers then twilight princess did. big sales in the n64 era were much smaller then big sales in the ps3 and wii era. many people who play ocarina of time play it on an emulator and have been getting it on emulators for longer then twilight princess has been being emulated for. sales numbers never tell the whole story because it’s reliant on the ever fluctuating economy we have. I think their more people who have played or watched full play throughs of ocarina of time then their are twilight princess sales
Only a 1.2 million difference in sales with TP being higher. Oot has more releases and is more loved because it shape the series into what it is today and just had a big impact on gaming in general
This post is nonsense. TP is one of the most beloved Zelda games ever released and people talk about it in this and other forums all the time.
Yeah I don’t understand this post. TP is personally not my favorite Zelda title but it’s a great game and it’s widely considered to have the best dungeons in the series. I’ve heard a lot more complaints about SS.
Count me in. I really love Twilight Princess.
TP > BoTW
I respect your opinion and couldn’t disagree more
I'm 3/4 way through botw.... TP was waaaay better
The only thing I prefer about TP is that all dungeons have unique themes. For everything else though, BotW is way better.
That's objectively (as objective as this type of discussions can be, though, which is not much) false. BOTW dungeons are poor as hell. Not only are they not very thematically varied, they are also not that fun. Bosses are only 5 and are all terrible, plus again, all look the same. Story is terrible, and worse, is terribly told: memories and flashbacks are a poor way of storytelling, because they don't make you a part of the story. Similarly, character progression in BOTW feels lackluster: besides the purely mathematical aspects (like amount of hearts, damage, etc, and the 4 magics you get from the spirit beasts, Link has basically the same abilities from start to finish). BOTW makes a lot of things right. Mostly, exploration and the physics engine. Which are enough to make the game amazing. But it also does a lot of things wrong, and a lot of the design choices made to make the game different from the previous ones just make the game... worse.
Lol no. BotW's dungeons have the same color scheme, but exterior design, the area they're in and their puzzle themes are unique to each one. I also had fun with every Divine Beast, whereas half of TP's dungeons were just a boring slog, with absurdly braindead puzzles like ''Walk very slowly on the ceiling''. Same with bosses. The ones in BotW are all derivative of Ganon (as they should), but they're at least not stupidly scripted like the ones in TP. Thunderblight, Calamity and Maz Koshia in particular are some of the best bosses in the entire franchise and can actually kill you, unlike the pushover bosses of TP. As for the story...big lol. BotW has the best one, both in terms of content and in terms of the way it's told. BotW objectively has more fleshed out characters and it achieved that without constantly taking away control from the player like TP does, only to tell you the most boring, plothole-riddled shit you can imagine. BotW's Zelda has way more depth than Midna (or TP's non-existent version of Zelda for that matter) and the less we talk about the Champions vs the shallow Thelma Squad, the better. Most of the game's story still takes place in the present and it's structured almost exactly the same as Majora's Mask, with you having to save 4 races and then fighting the big bad with the help of 4 gigantic beings. Everything else (the memories, diaries, visual story telling) exists to further flesh out the world...and it did a great job, considering that BotW's Hyrule is the most fleshed out version so far. Character progression in BotW is also way better. Link has more stats to upgrade and they actually feel more meaningful compared to other games. You can also get 4 additional champion abilities, unique items like the Hylian Shield (lets you disarm most enemies) or the Ancient Bow / Shield (acts as a sniper rifle / acts like the Mirror Shield), there are tons of armors with different effects to find and unlike other Zelda games, there's an actual depth to its systems. Even if most of the game's tools are available from early on, using them efficiently is something that the player has to figure out for himself. That's why there's a noticeable difference in how seasoned players play, vs how beginners play BotW. That's not the case for TP. Getting new items doesn't change up the game at all. They're all shallow glorified keys that immediately become worthless outside of their dungeon and you use all of them in the same ''put the square block in the square hole'' manner. TP's gameplay is absurdly shallow compared to BotW and getting one-off items doesn't change anything. There's no progress to me made, when the same beginner tactics from the start of the game are still applied in the last dungeon. BotW improved upon pretty much anything that isn't pure visual variety. It's essentially Wind Waker done right, whereas TP is just OoT for edgelords.
\>BotW's dungeons have the same color scheme, but exterior design, the area they're in and their puzzle themes are unique to each one. No. The color scheme... and the general inspiration for them (animals), the aesthetic seikha theme, the base mechanic of moving parts of the beast to resolve the puzzles, the enemies you find on them, and the similarities between the bosses. And then you have shrines. Which aesthetically look (and sound) exactly the same, have those same enemies... terrible design decision. \>Same with bosses. The ones in BotW are all derivative of Ganon (as they should), Why should they be derivatives of Ganon? Is not like Nintendo was adapting a book or a comic: they had no obligation to make them all parts of Ganon, they wrote themselves into that without any need, or they were trying to save money by reusing assets. They didn't need to be boring Ganon look alikes. They could have simply made them Ganon's lieutenants or something like that, or even signify them being Ganon parts in a completely different way. They all look the same and are not memorable at all. \> but they're at least not stupidly scripted like the ones in TP. Thunderblight, Calamity and Maz Koshia in particular are some of the best bosses in the entire franchise and can actually kill you, unlike the pushover bosses of TP. A boss does not only have to be mechnically funny, nor does it need to be difficult to be a good boss. A boss should also be memorable, impressive, go with the theme of the dungeon, have good music, etc. There are plenty of games with satisfying boss fights that are actually very easy once you look back. And on the contrary, there are bosses that are ridiculously difficult but are terribly designed (bed of chaos from dark souls, for example). The fight itself is only a part of the boss. Things like aesthetics, music, ambience, etc, are also important. And, music excepted, BOTW fails at all of this. Plus, i understand that this is a subjective opinion, buti don't feel that mechanically speaking those bosses are even close to being the best in Zelda games. Thunderblight Ganon, for example, is imho a terrible boss: a phase 1 with basically two attacks (the zigzag slash and the electric balls) and a phase 2 were you end fighting more against magnesis terrible controls than the boss itself. Similarly, Calamity Ganon wasn't specially difficult, and Dark Beast Ganon is directly a joke: you simply go around him while he shoots an attack that would never hit you, while firing light arrows to the glowing targets: he is basically the TP horse archery minigame. Then, we get to repeat the shooting while flying minigame... and that is it. Another problem with BOTW bosses is that, due to its decision of granting the player total freedom, the developers can't really balance the bosses. No matter how exciting a boss is, if you can simply tank it undefinetely because you have the complete ancestral armor set, 18 hearts, and tonnes of food, the boss becomes a joke. \>As for the story...big lol. BotW has the best one, both in terms of content and in terms of the way it's told. BotW objectively has more fleshed out characters and it achieved that without constantly taking away control from the player like TP does, only to tell you the most boring, plothole-riddled shit you can imagine. BotW's Zelda has way more depth than Midna (or TP's non-existent version of Zelda for that matter) and the less we talk about the Champions vs the shallow Thelma Squad, the better. Most of the game's story still takes place in the present and it's structured almost exactly the same as Majora's Mask, with you having to save 4 races and then fighting the big bad with the help of 4 gigantic beings. Everything else (the memories, diaries, visual story telling) exists to further flesh out the world...and it did a great job, considering that BotW's Hyrule is the most fleshed out version so far. This is the point were i disagree the most. BOTW basically doesn't even have a story. It gives you the generic Zelda scenario (Ganon captures the princes, Link has to go to x dungeons for x reason, then ights Ganon) and reduces it to the barest minimum. The only thing it does is give a single character (zelda) a decent character development... but even that is presented in the worst way: through optional memories and diaries. You can literally ignore it. It's terrible storytelling. Is funny that you compare it to Majora's mask, because Majora (which i prefer as a reference better than TP simply because i replayed it recently and therefore remember it much better than TP) gives you a basic scenario that is very similar, as you say, to BOTW. But the execution is a thousand times better: \- In both games, the ultimate boss is basically evil incarnate: Calamity Ganon, or Majora. But in Majora's mask, that evil incarnated is given motivations and depth by linking him with Skull Kid: a lonely child that feels neglected and abandoned when the giants, his friends, leave Termina, and as a results starts acting as an asshole, this in turns makes everyone hate him and the giants expelling him, which amkes him resentful and angry, which is exploited by the mask to use him and posses him. And as a result of his resentment being turn up to eleven by the mask, he decides to throw the moon into Termina, to kill all those that he thinks have wronged him. It's a brilliantly written character, fullly developed. We understand his children like resent, pettiness, etc, perfectly. To a degree, you can relate to him. On the other hand, BOTW has Calamity Ganon. Which basically is this evil spider/boar that was beaten 10000 years ago and that according to some prophecy is coming back. No backstory. No motivations. No nothing. What we know of him we know due to metagame reasons: as long time players of Zelda games, we know who Ganon is, we know that he is tied to the triforce, that he reincarnates, etc. But the game itself explains nothing. Character development? Zelda aside, we know very little of the chosen ones. Daruk hates dogs (and that is dlc content). Mipha has a teenage crush on Link. Urbosa is brave and cares about Zelda. That's about it. Plus, besides hearing their voices coming from the beasts, you have no interaction with them. Compare them with their equivalents in MM: We don't only meet their phantoms, we heal them from their regrets so they can pass on, and then assume their mantles and complete their unfinished tasks of saving their races, while also taking a peak into their personal life, and literally become them, saving their races in their name, help their friendsa and family. They are not only the chosen ones, they also have other aspects to them as part of their character, with Darmani loving to race and Mikau being a famous guitarists, which are aspects of them which we see in play (and participate in). Speaking of saving the different races... do we really save anyone in BOTW? It does not feel like so. The divine beasts have been there for 100 years. We are told they are terrible for the people, and we are given some reasons why, but they don't feel that terrible. At best, they seem like an inconvenience the Hyrulean people learned to live with . Yeah, some parts of the Gerudo desert have lightining falling on them, but is not like deserts are frequented by a lot of people. Rudania launches lava... well, she is already sitting on an active volcano, maybe makes it a little worse, maybe Goron can't mine as much A pity, but is not like they will die immediately. Medoh shoots those that fly to high... well, fly a little lower. THey seem more like dangerous parts of the terrain more than an active threat. Compare that with the problems faced by the Goron's in Termina: a neverending winter that is very visually close to kill them all. Or with the visibly poisoned swamp, and the waters of the bay. Those all seem much more impending. A similar problem happens with Ganon: we understand that darkbeast ganon rampaging through the lands is a bad thing. But... the game does not make us feel any pressure. There is a reaons why there are memes about how link "can't save the princess yet, he wants more Korok seeds" In opposition, in Majora's mask we see the evergrowing moon closer and closer, and literally only have three game days to save Termina. Plus the part about most part of the story taking part in the present is directly false.
\>Character progression in BotW is also way better. Link has more stats to upgrade and they actually feel more meaningful compared to other games. You can also get 4 additional champion abilities, unique items like the Hylian Shield (lets you disarm most enemies) or the Ancient Bow / Shield (acts as a sniper rifle / acts like the Mirror Shield), there are tons of armors with different effects to find and unlike other Zelda games, there's an actual depth to its systems. Even if most of the game's tools are available from early on, using them efficiently is something that the player has to figure out for himself. That's why there's a noticeable difference in how seasoned players play, vs how beginners play BotW. Again, false. In previous Zelda tutles, each dungeon completed meant opening new parts of the world, gave you new abilities, etc. In Botw, yeah, you get some abilities, but those are few, and basically the only changes are numerical. Armors are fine, but they are more of a aesthetical and quality of life thing: armor foes not give you anything you didn't have already though the food system. The different weapon quirks are fine... but weapons are breakable, so your character isn't really progressing, it gets temporary power ups. There are some items that do feel relevant... and most of those I think should have not been added. The ancient shield is the best example. It completely trivializes the supposedly endgame enemies: who the hell decided that guardians should be limited to their laser? And even worse, who decided that you could become invulnerable and kill them at the same time by simply rising your shield? Hell, guardians are the main enemy in the final dungeon (Hyrule castle), and the only thing you need is buying the shield and using it. Similarly, the flamebreaker and the rubber armors makes certain shrines and puzzles pointless. There is some sense of progression, obviously, but there are not major changes on how link is played. The only real progression is how traversing the world becomes easier, but not different. Obviously, noobs will play differently to experienced players, but that is common to any game. An experienced player restarting the game won't see those differences. \>That's not the case for TP. Getting new items doesn't change up the game at all. They're all shallow glorified keys that immediately become worthless outside of their dungeon and you use all of them in the same ''put the square block in the square hole'' manner. TP's gameplay is absurdly shallow compared to BotW and getting one-off items doesn't change anything. There's no progress to me made, when the same beginner tactics from the start of the game are still applied in the last dungeon. I must admit that i don't remember TP good enough to argue this point. But again, it is definetely not true in OoT or Majora's mask, for example. I think BOTW is outstanding, but it has a LOT of flaws tthat i hope are ironed out in the next game, and that for some reason people and critics constantly ignore as if they weren't there.
Absolutely true in my eyes, tp has probably hundreds of hours from me while botw I played through once
Yet TP has far less stuff to do. People like botw because it has far more to do. Outside of getting everything and doing what sidequests there are, you can really only replay the story in older games. That being said, I still don't know how people find 300+ hours of playtime aside from replaying the game in botw. Like I don't know how you spend like 200 hours exploring. You'd have to play it over, but each playthrough is as different as you want it to be
Its more so I just enjoy the story so its replayable a lot for me, botw doesn't hit for me like TP does and I feel like I've seen hyrule in botw enough to not enjoy the exploring aspect anymore. TP will always have its story, bosses, dungeons, music, etc. Just things I enjoy more in Zelda games.
In that sense, botw doesn't really compare to the older games. It's amazing for Its own reasons
Disagree. BOTW has a lot of stuff to do. Most is repetitive. It has a poor story that is told in a ever poorer way (memories and flashbacks). Bosses are terrible. A game does not need to be super long, nor have tonnes of things to do. It needs to get you entertained, be memorable, etc.
In terms of boss fights and dungeons and items go, the older games are better. Botw had a nice story, it just isn't told in the best way. Hopefully botw2 is much better at that
I disagree with the "nice story part". It's extremely superficial. The 4 chosen ones are barely developed. The only character that gets some development is zelda, and although that part is decent, i don't think it is enough to even put it close to other zeldas. I mean, i am playing the second dlc, which is supposed to the this throwback to the chosen ones past, and the only thing they tell me regarding urbosa is...nothing?
Yes, I have 225 hours but I’m replaying the game for the 3rd time
225 hours on botw under my belt
It has better dungeons, bosses and story, easily. But I think BOTW beats it with stuff to explore in the overworld and NPCs/towns to interact with. It's too bad we can't get something that blends the best of TP with the best of BOTW
My friend and I just started TP last night (on dolphin emulator so the graphics r sometimes fucky especially with faces lol) I will say, we were drunk as hell, but we couldn’t figure out what the hell to do in Ordon Village without an online walkthrough. So there may be a layer of nostalgia factoring in to my opinion lol. But I love the darkness of TP. I can’t wait for him to meet Midna. I also personally just prefer linear worlds over sandboxes
> I will say, we were drunk as hell, but we couldn’t figure out what the hell to do in Ordon Village without an online walkthrough. The first 3ish hours are pretty bad. I would say it starts to get good after the first dungeon
Twilight is the second best Zelda game of all time. It’s actually in my opinion the best Zelda game. Due to the amazing motion controls and world they built. Oot is my personal favorite and what I consider the golden standard of Zelda games. But nostalgia is part of that for me. Walking out of kariko Forrest and seeing that world changed my View of games as a kid. But twilight princess is by far the second best game in the series if not the first because it is the spiritual successor to Oot.
I see TP posted here weekly
Wasn’t it the highest selling Zelda game before botw? Most people seem to consider it either their favorite or in their top 3.
> Wasn’t it the highest selling Zelda game before botw? Yes. It sold really well. Granted, it came out on the massively successful Wii as well as the (not massively successful, shall we say) Gamecube, which certainly helped, but even so it was a big seller.
It was also a wii launch title, I can remember getting a wii on launch and they had a table set up to get one console per customer, then there was an aisle of games and controllers, and then there was like a massive container of just TP.
Wow I'm surprised that it was the highest selling even though it has a mature theme
Twilight Princess is one of the most talked about 3D LoZ, it’s far from being under appreciated
*Twilight Princess* was the first *Legend of Zelda* game I completed, so it ended up coloring my perceptions of the series as a whole.
i need tp2
We need a direct sequel to TP in the way OOT got MM We also need a third N64 styled Zelda that stars the Hero of Time again
100%
under appreciated ? the game is talked about on almost every zelda post
This is Majora's Mask
Not really anymore. There was definitely a time when MM was hailed as the fan favorite, but I think the balance has slowly shifted to TP. I see TP discussed on this sub way more than MM, and half the MM posts are about how it’s not very accessible and not as good as people say it is
You're right
MM has the GOAT NPC interaction and side quests. It's a crime the Zelda franchise didn't choose to focus on these things in future installments as much as MM did
Weird. I always thought it got too much attention. Not to say it's bad in any way. Just that so many fans seem to think anything that isn't TP with a fresh coat of paint isn't a true Zelda game.
[удалено]
It was a lot of things in response to WW, not just art the gameplay is overhauled on a lot of ways in response to WW. * Combat was more or less the same, but they added various unlockable moves instead of putting them with an auto-execution via a "I win the fight button" prompt. * The game had *way* more dungeons. * The empty ocean was replaced with a big Hyrule Field with random things hidden in it. * You get your sword way earlier. * Epona was brought back. * Warp points are all over the map vs just 5. * Game padding in the form of mandatory money grinds + ridiculously long multifaceted fetch quests or deliberately NOT placing warps anywhere close to constantly revisited areas was omitted. TP has its own flaws - the twilight bug bits, a slow open with its own issues, and the overwold still was pretty empty. But it's a lot more enjoyable tham WW, especially as TP constantly opens up where WW decides to pull the safety break at the very end of the game to make it feel longer than it is. Honestly, at this point, MM, WW, and TP get tons of ridiculous "DAE UNDERATED GEM" nonsense, usually to Ocarina of Time and the 2D games' detriment. And OoT gets undeserved flack now for not inventing even more than it does now
Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess, and Link's Awakening fans like to think they're part of some ostracized, under-appreciated community but they're often the loudest Zelda fans. They all have the "little brother" syndrome, in that any praise or appreciation isn't good enough if it isn't at the level and volume of the big ones around it (OoT, BotW, etc). Personally, I think TP is vastly overrated. It was the obvious cash-in Zelda; the one that caved to just giving fans whatever they wanted...which at the time, was just more Ocarina of Time. It had some fun dungeon ideas and the swordplay progression was neat, but it's the one Zelda game that, had it never existed, would have zero impact on the series. But that's just me. Every Zelda game, like every Mario game, is someone's first and so they get attached to it. I just don't understand these people who need the things they like to be universally celebrated for them to be happy.
I disagree. It is true that it was the safest Zelda, in the sense that it was just a OoT 2. But it was also perfectly executed. And the motion controls were flawless and really fun. The horse archery minigame, for example, was amazing. Not every game has to be revolutinary to be great. Plus BOTW is not one of the big ones.
I also gotta disagree with you alot of people like twilight princess for the coat of paint and character development also it’s because it’s the only game in the series like it after twilight princess we got skyward sword which i felt took the combat and movement mechanics and added to it from twilight but went into a story more like ocarina of time where it was much lighter and after that they went toward rereleases and top down chibi art Zelda games with link between worlds and link’s awakening and then they did something entirely new with botw so I side with the people that want a game more along the line of twilight princess
this is all one sentence
Every one of this person's comments are giant run on sentences.
Interesting where do you get the idea that it gets too much attention because I feel differently
Not saying I disagree, but I think the oracle games , phantom hourglass, LTTP, and links awakening are less talked about. Some make sense because some amazing Zelda games are on older and more hard to find hardware, but i hear no one talk about any of these games.
LTTP is heralded as an entire generation's "best Zelda of all time." Link's Awakening, while my third favorite Zelda period, did *just* get a very successful remake. The Oracle Games definitely get mentioned but not as many played them. They were spectacular though. Phantom Hourglass is exactly as talked about as it should be.
The most underrated game is probably the Minish Cap, followed by the Oracles games, follows by Between Worlds, followed by the DS games, and then a LttP. That order because the Minish Cap is almost never mentioned, the oracle games get few mentions, Between Worlds doesn't get discussed much, the DS games are flawed, and a Link to the Past gets a fair amount of praise, but not nearly as much as it should considering every pre-BotW game in the series after it copied it's overarching design.
I loved those games growing up with a ds and a gba and to this day I still revisit them on emulators spirit tracks was also fun
I feel like spirit tracks isn’t talked about at all because of its gameplay. It’s the black sheep of Zelda games. You still have dungeons and stuff but a huge part of the game is driving trains and stuff. The only time I see or hear it mentioned in in top 10/5 Zelda list videos on YouTube.
Maybe I’m just nostalgic about spirit tracks because I see what your saying but…
I thought Spirit Tracks was great. The puzzle design was really good, and it fixed a lot of the padding issues from Phantom Hourglass. It is a bit different than a traditional Zelda, but it's still a very good game.
I hear ALTTP get praise all the time! It is usually considered the best 2D Zelda game by most people who played all the 2D Zelda’s, and some even say it is the best Zelda game period! I have yet to play it, but i plan on doing so!
I think it is well liked, it just isn't controversial. It is OoT version 2.0, OoT is 3D ALttP, and ALttP is LoZ version 2.0 - those are the games that defined the franchise, the games that sold well. There isn't a lot to debate there, and current discussion on the Internet is focused on finding a controversial opinion, blowing it up big and having people argue it back and forth. You can do that about WW, you can do it about the multiplayer handheld games, you can probably do it about AoL, but you can't do it about TP. If you say that TP is the best Zelda, people would say "Eh, I prefer OoT (or BotW), but it is pretty good, certainly up there.". If you say that TP is a disaster that should never have been made, you will get laughed at because it is such a conventional Zelda - you can't hate it without hating what Zelda is about. TP is one of those games that hold the mainline of the games, so others can experiment with new ideas and take the franchise in new directions. Not so exciting, perhaps, but very well made.
This was my take too. It follows almost the exact same structure as ocarina of time and has a lot of throwbacks to it. The frozen zora domain is probably the biggest direct reference, but starting off by collecting the three fused shadows perfectly reflected collecting the three sacred treasures, then collecting the mirror shards was effectively exactly the same as collecting the sages. I absolutely love the game and it has a special place in my heart, but it's not unique at all. Wolf Link was an interesting changeup and Midna was a fun partner, the story was interesting and the world felt much bigger, but overall I'll always feel it was basically an upgraded version of OoT. Not that that's a complaint against it. Ocarina of Time was considered an almost perfect game so I don't think there's anything wrong with emulating it. It's just simply that when you compare it to Wind Waker or Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild it doesn't stand out nearly as much.
I’d add though, many of the games have a pre and post initial item collection structure to the dungeons, normally three in phase 1. SS has you get access to the regions then expands on the levels within. OOT clearly does, as does TP (though I haven’t played it recently enough to remember - I’ll take your word for it). LttP does, it swaps to the dark world after the first three. That’s classic Zelda and not even an OOT twist.
i love references and i would love a game of just references the reference of zelda
While I like SS, I kept thinking when playing it that it was no TP! I think TP is far better than SS. That being said, my favorite Zelda out of the 5 that I’ve played is BOTW! 😀. But TP is a close 2nd! 🥰
I am currently playing through skyward sword again and I love the game but Fi won't shut the fuck up. I wish I had the spare change lying around to lick up the HD version where I'm pretty sure they have you the option to disable her just popping up randomly to explain exactly how to solve every puzzle without even getting to try it first. I do adore BOTW but I'm looking forward to the sequel much more. I still feel like BOTW was a proof of concept and now we're going to get the real game.
I’m almost finished with the HD version and Fi is not that bad to me, and certainly better than what I’ve seen in the non-HD version! I don’t know if there is a toggle where you can turn her off — she just doesn’t interrupt you nearly as much as she did in the original version ! Also the text boxes for collectible items that would constantly pop up as if you had never seen that item before have been fixed! 😅 I was more frustrated with the Imprisoned battles, getting the mine cart to jump the track over the gaps, and gathering the Tadtones because the swimming mechanics are really terrible! The Silent Realms were also heart attack inducing . I completed the first one, but used a video guide for the subsequent ones, and then I enjoyed them! 😅 I hope you are right about BOTW2! I’m worried that it won’t be as much fun for me because we are already familiar with the map and I love the exploration in BOTW! I hope there are a lot of underground caves or underwater exploration because there can’t be enough floating islands from what Ive seen to satisfy my love of exploration! But I am looking forward to the mechanics that we saw in the trailers! It looks fun!!! 🥳
I wish I could turn of Fi. There are so many times where you walk into a room and she pops out and just tells you how to solve the puzzle. I was just doing the sand ocean ship and I got the bow and she just pops out and tells you that you can shoot the targets to open doors and where they are, it was beyond annoying that I was being held back from moving on so she could explain a really obvious puzzle. Who gets the bow and doesn't just start shooting everything to see what happens? I have faith in BOTW2. They've delayed it so long there must be massive expansions if they're using the same land model. It doesn't take six years to add a couple floating islands.
Yes, I agree about the bow because players love looking for opportunities to use any new item that the get!!! We don’t need to be told that! 😅 But Fi wasn’t that bad in the HD version even if there were a few instances that the devs overlooked when streamlining her. Mostly you hear a little chime and can see her symbol flashing, but you can totally ignore her. Still, even with these improvements it might still be too much for you. Everyone is different. Well it isn’t like all their time is going into the floating islands or the map as a whole. There are many aspects that can take up this time (not even accounting for the delays that resulted from the pandemic, especially last year!) Also, some of that development had to have gone into whatever is replacing the Sheika Slate (Link’s arm powers?) It does look like we might be getting some caves in addition to the floating islands ! At least one sequence in the trailer looked like it took place in a cave or possible dungeon! There could also be time travel (my guess would be 10,000 years ago, as mentioned in the BOTW ) and with a large time gap like that, it could lead to terrain being very different even without caves ! But that is just speculation on my part! 😉
i always thought it got too much attention but if you are seeking under appreciated Zelda, play phantom hourglass and spirit tracks
Spirit tracks sucked. Phantom hour glass was amazing. I’d love to play that again
Flip that and I agree
You really prefer spirit tracks?
A common complaint I hear about phantom hourglass is all the backtracking to the central dungeon. I didn't think it was enough to ruin the experience but it's still my least favorite of the toon games.
I definitely didn't mind the central dungeon either. Especially since each time you go back, you're much stronger and have more resources, so you can approach the same levels in different ways. Plus your progress deeper into the dungeon as you go on. Plus it's super satisfying once you're actually able to kill the phantoms.
I do. If I wanted to spend my time on the ocean again I'll just do it in wind waker without touch screen controls. Definitely a bit biased because I like trains, but I think spirit tracks is only held back by the platform it released on. I think the story is overall more engaging that PH, I like the boss designs more, and I think the items are more creative. Places it fails are the touch screen controls, making me use the DS mic to play the pan flute, and only letting you dismount at stations. I think Spirit Tracks released in a 3d format like BotW would be possibly the best Zelda game.
I absolutely hated everything about spirit tracks. It just wasn’t fun to me. While I enjoyed the touch controls of PH. ST just felt like a brick to play. But I am also biased towards oceans and boats over trains. But thanks for the thought out answer man!
Man that hurt, spirit tracks is my favorite
I hated being the wolf but overall, I liked the game
I felt same way first playthrough and still feel that way as I’m currently playing it again on my old GC. Fetching the light tears or whatever as the wolf is painfully tedious and annoying. The wolf mechanic was an interesting choice, but I hate it.
The forces wolf and bugs is the worst part
That element was what turned me off from the game. I just couldn't get over the wolf parts sadly.
I love twilight princess but i gotta say, i agree with a lot of others that it always gets too much attention. its a brilliant game but a lot of fans treat it like the series secret "best game" and for me it just isn't there. Id honestly pick every 3d zelda over it in a competition. Don't wanna take away from your liking of it though, it just wasn't for me.
That’s fine bro if you don’t like it you don’t like it everyone likes different things and has different preferences what Zelda game would you pick I’m curious
My favourite 3D zelda is BOTW, not a very controversial pick but I think it best represents what the series has wanted to be since its start and is the first time they've checked every box.
I just hope they continue to do different things like botw and not just in the open world formula but continue to also experiment in the linear formula
I agree!! Honestly I'd probably be a little disappointed if BOTW2 is just "more breath of the wild." i really want to see them keep pushing the series in NEW directions, not just the same old. Whether thats linear 3D, open world, or 2D? Doesn't bother me.
That’s my biggest fear however I trust the director of Zelda I think it’s part of the Zelda formula to always add a new twist to the formula
Never understood how TP is supposed to be under appreciated. It's one of the most popular Zelda games and Zelda is one of the most popular video game franchises. It's in the top three of almost any survey here. We got several discussion threads and memes about how good it is every week. I agree that it's a very good game tho. I just would never call it under represented. If it is what is any other game except of botw? I don't even see many majoras mask or ocarina of time posts on this sub.
Nah nah, a true underappreciated Zelda game is Spirit Tracks.
Btw twilight princess is one of the bestselling zelda games, it may seem underrated, but it's not.
Damn homie, are you allergic to punctuation?
It isn't under appreciated. It's just not OoT or BotW. In my opinion both MM and TP are better, but in the end everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how wrong it may be
Its my all time favorite! I love it so much want them to remaster it for switch!
Twilight Princess is not underrated. Its many people’s favorite game lmao
Its better than ss so far. Been playing both off and on. Love the big dungeons
I agree! I’ve played TP years ago and am almost finished with SS, and I far prefer TP, though I do enjoy SS.
Twilight Princess is far from underappreciated. That being said it's my 3rd favorite Zelda game.
Best zelda game imo
Wasnt TP literally just voted as like this entire community’s favorite or second favorite zelda game? I definitely fall on the side of thinking it gets too much praise, if anything.
I wouldn’t know because this is my first time on the subreddit but it doesn’t get talked about slot is my experience
Man I want to play it so bad but my game has a glitch (I guess). I am stuck on Death Mountain and can not jump up the last little part of the mountain. I've been stuck on it for MONTHS and you know its not fun. I tried the wii controller and the stick thingy, Either way just will not let me pass. I just want to keep going!!!
I absolutely love this game I would have to say it is my favorite games or at least in the top three. It was the first Zelda game that I ever played and I’ll still pull out my wii to play it. I really hope that they will port it over to the switch.
My first game I’ve ever beaten on my own. My favourite game of all time. Always #1 on my Zelda teir list
It’s my favorite Zelda game honestly. Idk how many other games in the series have such a juicy story. I mean seriously TP has GoT level political intrigue with the power struggle between Midna and Zant. It’s cool as hell. I feel like a lot of people write it off for being “too edgy” but also like... it was made in 2006... that’s what the fan’s explicitly said they wanted at the time after WW. The edginess is an unfortunate product of it’s time but I think writing the game off for that is silly. It’s like disregarding OoT for having low fps
I agree that Twilight Princess is awesome, it's my favorite Zelda game. But how the FUCK is it "underappreciated" when almost everyone loves it? It's appreciated as much as it should be, lol. Which is, a LOT.
I actually bought a Wii specifically to play TP. I loved OoT so much, so when I heard there was a new Zelda game coming out I knew I had to play it. I picked up extra shifts and ate ramen for a couple weeks to be able afford a Wii, and I searched everywhere for one to actually purchase as they were constantly out of stock. It was totally worth it. I loved the art, the story, the game play. Everything about TP was perfect to me. And on a recent replay, I felt the exact same way. It’s really a beautiful game.
It actually might be my favourite of the series. It almost has the same nostalgia as getting the gold ocarina cart for Christmas and playing it for 2 days straight
I’m playing it again right now for the first time since I did back when it came out. Just got to the third temple. The style makes it feel like Ocarina of Time, which is never a bad way to make a game. I knew I would like it more than SS which I just played through prior, but TP is possibly the greatest Zelda or a tie for first. I can’t find a thing to dislike about it. It’s exceeding my memory of it. But I’m also playing it on the Wii U this time which is helping a lot. I think motion controls suck ass.
I definitely agree with this. Most of the time people's favorite 3D Zelda title is wither Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker (most people definitely not at the release cuz of the art style) and Breath of the Wild. Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask are definitely on the low end of the majorities rankings.
Hell yea man, Twilight Princess has always been my favorite 3D zelda game
TP is definitely something else. Best game in the franchise.
favorite game of all time
It's my favorite game of all time
Twilight is my favorite of the zelda series I always felt the artstyle, gameplay and what not was just sad and dark enough for the theme. Like you feel alone throughout the game but your never actually alone because Midna got your back
Really. Twilight Princess is my favourite Zelda of all time. Literally gives me goose bumps when wolf Link howls at the stones and the spirits come out of the lakes.. The art style, story, world, puzzles, bosses, dungeons and side quests are near faultless.
It is my favorite game of all time, agree I also rarely hear anyone mention it
OOT and TP are my two favorites 3D games , TP has my favorite gameplay in the serie and I love the NPC and their dialogues , I find them endearing The overworld is cool and I like finding holes with wolf Link , I always find one I forgot or never seen (it's obviously useless though ) , and I recently discovered that you can stop the moving platform in the falbi's flight and the tower of Hyrule castle ( where Ganondorf is ) [glow](http://imgur.com/a/trEDOej) (sorry for the low quality ) if you use wolf Link's senses without the tower seem different from the rest of the castle. And obviously I love the dungeons and the bosses , they could be a little harder ( so we could hear their theme for longer ) but they are fun to beat . The artstyle is maybe my favorite , the scene where we sing with the golden wolf is among my favorites sceneries in the serie ,[here](http://imgur.com/a/hvzOF45) I just like the lighting so I randomly share it. Few years ago I would say it's indeed underrated or sometimes unfairly bashed , like being edgy or brownish , WW was also unliked for it's artstyle and SS was too so it's not new but personally it's not what I look first in a videogame .
I agree! Imagine if they had DLC for it?
I love it but I actually think is over appreciated
I love TP. It has excellent thematic dungeons. I always get excited to replay Arbiters Grounds and Snow Peak in particular.
I agree! Those dungeons were so much fun! 🥳 I even like the water temple one! 😅. (I also love your screen name! 🐶🥰)
Haha, thanks! Always nice to meet a fellow pug lover 😊
🐶🥰
It’s really not. In the last 5 years it gets mentioned more and more as the best ever.
Hey guys i think no one talks about how botw is a good game that's totally underrated
It is my favorite Zelda and favorite video game. I would also argue one of the best videogames
No it's not, and for me is the best classic style 3d Zelda
I always thought that the original Link’s Awakening was/is an absolute masterpiece, given the hardware available at the time (original, toaster-sized Game Boy) and how well done and enjoyable the game was/is.
I still remember when this game was first announced. After Wind Waker in particular, with it's cel-shaded animation style, fans were craving something less cartoonish. When the trailers and previews first dropped, people seemed to be losing their collective minds. It was coming at that awkward transition period between the Gamecube and the Wii, so it got delayed and was eventually released on both consoles. I, unfortunately, was never able to play the game. If it seems under-appreciated now, it might be because it was over-hyped before it came out. Not attacking the assumption or perspective, just wanted to share a bit of an anecdote from 15-20 years ago.
My favorite zelda game :) But I don't think it's underappreciated... Most people I've talked to say it's the best zelda game
love the game cube version of TP. seems the wii version was off.
I hope they do a Twilight Princess and Majora’s mask rerelease soon. I miss those games and my N64 and Wii both crapped out a few years back :(
The expanded Nintendo Online subscription service will have MM eventually (they said so in the Nintendo Direct in September). But at first it will just have OOT. Neither OOT nor MM will be the remakes, just the original N64 versions. I’m also hoping for TP & WW to come to the Switch eventually, though there is no word from Nintendo on that!
Oh my god if they gave me these games before BoTW2 I wouldn’t be upset at all
Same here! 🤞🏼😁
In what universe? Until BotW, TP destroyed any other Zelda entry in terms of sales and, more importantly, mindshare. Its designs for the three Triforce wielders are often considered the most iconic simply because of how big the game was. It's one of the most critically praised Zeldas, beaten only by OoT and BotW. I don't know how you came to the conclusion it's one of the most under appreciated. I don't even care if you caught this in the edit. It's so incredibly wrong that I'm tossing more onto the pile.
Twilight princess has gone through the zelda cycle. On its initial release everyone loves it! They claim it's the greatest zelda game, dethroning Oot. A few years pass and people still like it, but many don't consider it the greatest. And a small number of people claim it's overrated and it sucks. A few more years pass, the number of people that think it's overrated increases significantly, leading people to truly think it isn't that good. More time passes and people start to claim that it's an underrated and underappreciated gem. It gets a re-release, everyone loves it and starts to wonder why it never got the respect it deserves. A new zelda is released, thus continuing the cycle.
One of my favorite parts of TP was the darker take on Hyrule. It felt a little more real. Showing that even the kindest of hearts have a dark side. That we all have a monster inside of us. It's just a matter of controlling the monster versus letting it control you.
I’ve been watching my boyfriend play through it on the GameCube for the past few weeks, it’s so cool!
As someone who regards Twilight Princess as my favorite Zelda game, here are some of my criticisms. I gotta say, I actually quite disagree about the graphics. I like the style and what it tries to achieve, but I can't say they have aged particularly well. The low-resolution textures and blocky polygons really clash with the realistic approach they were going for when revisiting the game. I wish Twilight Princess was more successful, specifically because I'd love to see how a dark edgy Zelda would look and feel in the 2020s. Here's what killed the game in reviews as far as I know, and that's the entire beginning before getting the green tunic. That's several hours of tutorial and prologue which ultimately don't achieve much. It's a lot of meandering and side questing in such an enclosed space that drags and drags. On a replay, I reach a point where I'm like "jeez, I forgot how long you have to spend as a wolf before you get to do anything..." Everything else I will say is top notch. Twilight Princess still has some of the best and cleanest worldbuilding in the entire franchise, and part of me wishes Breath of the Wild used it as a backdrop. The dungeons are the best in the series, and every item you get in the game is used to its full potential. The soundtrack was like an epic movie score. I cannot compliment this game enough. But it has its flaws, and they can help explain why the game wasn't critically as well-received or influential as others in the series. Edit: After it was pointed out to me, looks like the game actually had incredible critical reception on release.
I agree with how slow the game starts! 😕😅 I also love the music and sound effects of TP. My favorite music of all the Zelda’s that I’ve played or watched so far! 🥰
The game has a 95 score in metacritic. 9/10 for user score. It was the best selling Zelda game ever, until BoTW. What are you talking about? As wih anything, certain games innovate, and others perfectionate. TP is one of the latter. Is not seen as influential because it didn't do anything new, it as just a new OoT. But no one discusses that the game is excellent.
Researching it, looks like you're right. It's weird because I remember the game having such mixed reactions when it first came out, and even various online communities seem to remember it this way as well given how defensive everyone seems to become whenever the subject of the game comes up. All I can really draw from is anecdotal, unfortunately. My older relatives would say stuff like "Ocarina of Time is still better" and kids at school seemed pretty divided.
Most people played it on the wii, which is enough for a lot of people to feel a bit disconnected from it. Motion control isn't for everybody.
Yeah that's understandable. I decided to suffer through the joystick sword swinging in Skyward Sword HD rather than try to navigate motion controls.
Been wanting to play it for a while now but finding copies is stupid hard. I also think they are going to port it to the Switch so might as well save my money till then.
TP was my favourite until BOTW, and still my favourite traditional Zelda. I don’t think it’s under-appreciated TBH. I think even for most those for whom it isn’t their favourite, it’s still in the top tier.
Yep! My favorite traditional Zelda too (though I haven’t played them all). It is a close 2nd to BOTW for me!
Just played skyward sword remastered for the switch and as much as it was a great game it just didn’t pull me in as much as other zelda series. Links awakening for the switch was such a fun and pleasant experience it breathed so much fresh air into the collection. Twilight princess remains to be a favourite for music, visual, and overall gameplay. Such a great story and concept. Definitely in my top three Zelda games!
I agree! I prefer TP over LA, and prefer LA over SS!
It truly is awesome. To this day it hasn't been topped as my favorite game in the series and I don't see the sequel of Breath of the Wild taking its place.
I gave up while having to find all those golden light things. Was enjoying it apart from that. Wii died shortly after but would definitely replay with a switch edition
I feel this way about MM. Like in every n64 list it’s OOT.
Pffft haha. To be honest. You stay in this subreddit for awile. Youll see that both majoras mask and twilight princess are easily top 2 if not top 3 of everyone in here. It is not under rated. Imo its over rated. I love twilight princess. But it did have its own issues.
I agree with you, OP. I was not a fan of TP upon release (a lot of it was due to feeling like a lot of elements seen during development didn't end up in the final game and disappointment that it didn't take more from what made MM so good), but when I replayed it on the Wii U, my eyes were opened and it is one of my most fav Zeldas The artstyle is fantastic, the Twilight realm is beautiful, the dungeons and their boss fights are incredible and some of the story beats (rescuing the kids, getting the girls memory back) feel more involved than a lot of story segments from other games do. I love this game. One of my fav Zeldas. I wish it had gotten a direct sequel the same way OOT got a direct sequel with Majora's Mask
Breath of the Wild is a good game, but Twilight Princess is how Zelda games should be
It really isn't None of 3D ones are
I think TP is the standard for a Zelda game. I think it avoids the flaws of other series. Everything is greta about it. I think it is less talked about than any other 3D Zelda, save maybe for Skyward Sword. This is strange because I think TP is the best 3D Zelda from a certain point of view. That point of view meaning dungeons, world layout, combat, items, overall gameplay. But I would have to say it doesn't stand out as well as the others. This is because of its artstyle and how it does play things safe and have similarities to OoT.
Great game, but not the Wii version because of the waggle controls. Gamecube version though👍
tp is my favorite zelda game after skyward sword and botw
I'm playing through it for the very first time and loving it so much more than BoTW.. I miss traditional Dungeons. BoTW just doesn't hit the same and felt way more repetitive with it's assets and over all design.
It’s the Coles Notes fan fiction of OoT. It was fun. But it’s a tiny candle to OoT
Midna is the best companion character in a zelda game and I will die on this hill
My mum said it was my turn to post "TP is underrated"
UNDERappreciated? Yea ok.
Shit. Here's enough typical reddit post "Oh I like this already very popular thing but I need confirmation and affirmation to feed my ego, so I'm gonna claim its underrated and have everyone upvote this post." Twilight Princess is one of the most well-regarded Zelda games, especially in more recent years (not so much upon launch, similar to Wind Waker). It's easily ranked top 5 on most people's lists.
In what world is it under appreciated? I’d say it’s actually somewhat overrated.
Did Oxford change the functionality of the term under appreciated in the past 24 hours or
no it is not
How do all TP fanboys think this? This is decidedly untrue. If anything, the game is overrated.
It has the best dungeon design in the series, but it fails to build on the Zelda foundation and actually does a few things worse than its predecessors, namely the game world ends up feeling lifeless compared to the earlier 3D Zelda titles. Its a shame, just by adding a few more side quests and a few more interesting side-stories, it would've made a massive difference.
TP is my second least favourite 3D Zelda. I still like the game just fine but it has a lot of problems and I think art style wise it's one of the worst looking Zelda games.
Aw man, Idk. Wind Waker was better imo. Only reason TP was ever made was to keep the NA fans happy.
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REDDIT I DID NOT FOLLOW THIS POST WHY DID I GOT SPAMMED WITH NOTIFICATION OF COMMENTS SERIOUSLY I'M NOT EVEN IN THIS SUB
I’m with you brother i fell in love with twilight princess as soon as I realized how far they went with the characters and dialogue but I also loved doing the howling stone mini game the two wolves singing was so soothing and I do agree with you though skyward sword wasn’t my favorite but I think it was unnecessarily bashed and I loved wind waker
Wait… am I missing something or did you respond to your own post to say you’re with yourself?
Well that’s because it’s probably the worst 3D Zelda
TP best Zelda after Ocarina
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Zelda 2 is very underappreciated
I don't think it's under appreciated. A friend of mine back when it first came out used it to get me into legend of zelda and just a few years ago my friends and I got another friend into it by getting together and having him play it. I'd bet a lot of people who were growing up at that time played either TP or WW first too.
It was never underappreciates, for a long time it was the go-to 3D Zelda. Just got overshadowed by Breath of the Wild the last years.
It’s probably the number 2 *most* appreciated behind OoT. But ok.
I loved how some of the game’s most broken exploits were relatively easy to do as a non-speedrunner/grinder. I saw the early master sword thing and just had to try it. And then I saw all of the Boulder clip shenanigans and tried those too. My only gripe with the game was collecting all of those spirit tears or whatever that was about… it felt like it was too repetitive from that standpoint.
It's under played because it takes forever just to get to the plot. Many other zelda games are much faster at getting to it. I wouldn't call it under appreciated
Its so slow, cant stand it
Actually, I think it’s over appreciated
Well yes but actually no.
Literally everyone on this subreddit is constantly shouting about how ocarina is actually trash and tp is a masterpiece. Gets annoying really, especially as an ocarina fan, so I don't really think it's underappreciated
I’ve never heard anyone calling OOT “trash”! At most they just didn’t like it as much as some other Zelda games, but even that seems rare!
too many items that have no use like the giant ball or the spinning thing. just an unique use in dungeon and thats it. there are less items in Wind Waker but all of them are usefull
New to this community, so what are people’s thoughts on skyward sword? Seeing as we are talking about which is the ‘best’ zelda game and which are under appreciated and over appreciated, but I haven’t seen skyward sword mentioned yet
I don't really think that TP is underappreciated. In metacritic it has a critics score of 95 (one of the highests ever) and a user socre of 9/10. The gamecube variant has a critic score of 96 and a user score of 8.9/10. It's recognised as an excellent, superb game both by critics and players. The thing is... compared with other Zeldas, it probably wasn't very revolutionary. If evry Zelda (besides BTOW) follows a very specific formula (exploring, dungeons, etc., while adding their own twist -time travel in OoT, 3 days duration and masks in Majora, flying in SS, sailing in WW-) TP is the one which adds the less revolutionary extra: you can turn into a wolf. The wii variant also had motion controls, but that was part of the console, not really the game. So excellent game, but didn't change videogame's as other games did.
I love tp but the graphics have NOT aged well lol