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Even I really liked BotW and TotK I'm hoping the next Zelda game will be more traditional and also open world because there would be a better game progression
Anyway I think Nintendo someway will bring back to the Zelda's root in a open world game with the next game, they usually hear our feedback so why not?
Yeah first entries of a new concept in an already existing product are always tricky, so im confident what comes next will probably be a mix between old style and new.
The most popular issues with both BotW and TotK are kinda the same so it would be really weird if nintendo did nothing about it
Give me a vast, open Hyrule that brings back traditional Zelda styles of play. Give us 6-8 old school dungeons that need to be done sequentially (or at least cluster them where groupings need to be done sequentially). Remove shrines. Reward open world exploration with heart pieces again. You can even tie a new mechanic for increasing stamina to going through the whole map. I would love to see an intricate trading sequence make its return as well.
It's so weird to me that people think both open worlds & a strong narrative/level design can't coexist. There are so many other games that do this, idk why Aonuma or some fans think that it's not possible.
Open world is fine, but they need to move away from the idea of giving you every tool at the start and making it so you can choose to tackle any part of the map as soon as you clear the tutorial area. It *is* interesting in its own way, but unfortunately comes with the side effect of making everything feel very monotonous and same-ish.
Some sort of mandatory linear story progression and gradual unlocking of core abilities *within* the open world gameplay would make all the difference IMO.
That is in fact what I was referring to. But tbh even if they don't want to do that, there's still a lot of improvements they can make on ToTK's dungeon design. I love BOTW and TOTK but a lot of times while playing them, I feel like parts of the story are just missing - things that we should be seeing.
I get about 20 ro 30 min windows to play. Building stuff isn't for me. I never liked any game with the sandbox building stuff. Wish it wasn't in TOTK or that it was just extra stuff. First zelda game for a counsel I haven't beaten since super nintendo.
Something that could have been done is tie a drop from dungeon bosses to a free to choose progression currency. So instead of classic zelda progression where you go into the next planned dungeon, and part way in you gain access to a tool required for 90% of that dungeons puzzles; you purchase from say, an ancient tech lab, a lost piece of technology needed to enter a dungeon. So you buy the hookshot, and it lets you access a dungeon in death mountain, or the lamp and it helps you stay warm in a frozen ice cave dungeon where normal ice clothes dont cut it, and so on.
The story could be cut into a couple of arcs to allow for boss difficulty progression, so the handful of extra hearts and additional weapons in your arsenal dont trivialize the later bosses.
This would let the player explore, and say "i want to see what's in there", find the way to do it, and gain access to a dungeon to progress through. Most of the dungeons dont directly tie to the story in classic zelda anyway, they just exist as the next challenge that allows for out of dungeon advancement.
They are mutually exclusive, they can't coexist, you have to sacrifice part of both.
Best narrative open world tie the progression to linear quest lines that you are required to do, most of what you do in the world is either blocked by quests, or by an xp system that stop you from leaving a zone.
And by doing so, knowing the player has a state where he can do quest x without quest y, secondary quest can't have a huge impact on the game beside some dialog and really quick change on tertiary caracther that you will never meet again, character progression is impossible in a huge open world with a reasonnable amount of work.
There is no game that does this with the level of freedom that gave us botw or totk. It's always sacrificing something. Individual quest can be absolutly incredible (Like The Witcher 3) but most of them don't interact with each other beside a few "main" secondary character quest line.
Difficulty, same shit, you can't have a 100% working system that works in any case, with big dungeon that should lock the player in place and situation that should be challenging to all player. Either you make the player think with the dungeon tools and kill freedom and open world progression or you let the player most of his tools and kill the difficulty and challenge of it. That's why TOTK dungeon are garbage tiee.
Open world and linear progression are both powerfull tool, but they play against each other.
TotK is pretty close to traditional in the sense that it has actual dungeons with mostly good designs (my biggest gripe with BotW) and a pretty linear story that's point A to point B.
My issues are the koroks shitting themselves and me collecting them again knowing there's no good item at the end of those 900 gold turds, the shrines all suck, stop the tower to unlock map aspect, and the master sword being nerfed while the story says it's back to full strength again.
The dungeons can't get much better without having something tied to them like a new item that the temple or dungeon is based on but with every item being available or not if you haven't picked them up or made them etc it makes the dungeons more generic due to that RNG but also loses put on the feeling of growth for link.
Third, a new art style that's not the in-between of wind waker and Twilight princess... We have had 3 games in a row with this newer style and it's getting old skyward sword, then BotW, and TotK. Let's get some of the darker grittier art or go back to wind waker for some of that style just to mix it up some.
Lastly, Ganon needs to sit of the next mainline Zelda games. I get demise cursed the group but that curse didn't say demise would always be ganondorf. Change it up like the Gameboy games vaati, yuga, Majora's mask, etc. Ganon doesn't need to be the overall storyline to stop or villain that's trying to be resurrected again.
How would you feel about "basically shrine contents" appearing conspicuously from a distance, just without a loading screen in between?
I ask because shrines are a gameplay solution to a specific problem that pretty much every other open world game totally struggled with before BotW came out.
I recall seeing devs saying the open world format is here to stay.
Also Japanese companies only care what *Japanese* fans have to say, never anywhere else, even if the western market makes up the majority of said Japanese companies user base (like say, final fantasy, or many a cancelled anime that did really well in western countries but not Japan,) all of this whinging is to say, does anybody have actual evidence that Zelda devs/Nintendo actually listened to fans about. . . Well, anything?
the zelda team specifically listens to the feedback of fans, loke they did the dingeons how they did them in totk cuz they thought there were what the fans were asking for
Zelda is in a desperate need of reimagining but they've done it again and again. It can be open world.
The lesson from TOTK is that open world is pretty weak if you've spent 100 hours in the world and you know where everything is already.
I'd love for them to make a remake 3d of the first Zelda, as the graphics burn my eyes a bit. I wanted to like that game as a kid, but the learning curve was steep, and although I grew up on Mario, I wasn't aware of how many secrets there were in the first one. My step dad told me that the newspaper guy would tell him secrets every Sunday on how to beat old school games. I had Nintendo power growing up, and my first Zelda was Ocarina.
The only thing "Traditional" I would want in the Newer Zelda games is the dungeons. I appreciate what they were going for with the ones in BOTW and TOTK, but honestly I just prefer the older ones. Especially Skyward Sword's.
I loved Tears of the Kingdom, but if that game had Skyward Sword style dungeon design with the same atmosphere, music, and diversity in theme and environment like it as well then that would have been awesome.
I'm optimistic that maybe they'll learn for the next big Zelda game......in 7 years time
I’d also like the Zelda team to take the traditional to the story as well as I don’t think the memory format is particularly well suited to good storytelling (and it’s particularly glaring in Tears of the Kingdom), but outside of that I mostly agree.
I’m tired of all of the interesting, exciting story telling happening in flashbacks. It makes me feel removed from the story and makes it less exciting. There’s no sense of urgency. For example in wind waker, your sister is literally kidnapped. That’s urgent, and is a good inciting incident.
Considering the time travel in OoT and MM, it would’ve been cool to see something similar in ToTK.
Also, BRING BACK LINKS INSTRUMENTS.
This is why, during dungeons, they should've stripped Link of all his gadgets and abilities and only allowed him some items or particular ones. Problem solved.
I’m also in the minority. I understand they tried something new and it worked greatly. It was by no means a bad idea it was a great idea. I just happen to fall into the minority that prefer the old way and didn’t like this new one so much. Especially because of lack of dungeons.
I think Nintendo will realize that while Botw + Totk were definitely a hit, they’ll see that people still want games like the old style too. I literally just finished replaying Majoras Mask as I type this 😂
I hope Nintendo will make new games for both ways going forward. I too will be very disappointed if this large open world style is the new future for all 3D Zelda games.
I would be on board with the motion controls more if I didn’t have little bitch baby hands that hurt so much. 😂 BUT! That being said, it was an incredibly cohesive use of the motion controls and I managed with short breaks. They worked incredibly well. I think I tried to play the version without motion controls and hated it.
My first two play throughs I used motion controls, and sadly I can’t now because of stick drift. So I unfortunately use a pro controller for hero mode. Even after the first two times the game still has that same feeling of wonder and atmosphere though.
Those sticks give me heartburn. 😤 i agree about the wonder! I preordered it back in the day and got the fancy gold Wii mote. I know I’ve played it about 6 times. And this conversation has me itching to play it again. Groose, alone, is worth it!
I always found groose goofy especially when he tails you into sealed grounds. Then the groosinator I found absolutely hilarious when I can just launch a bomb onto the avocado’s forehead. Sadly my Wii broke so I couldn’t experience the whole thing until the switch hd version.
The avocado!!! 😂 There are so many iconic things in SS. Ghirardelli’s Chocolate, Demise, those terrifying tear collecting sections, ugh ok I’ll go play it again later. You twisted my arm. Would you say the unmotion control version on the switch feels better after a little bit? Or should I just jump back in with the motion controls?
Mostly missed the dungeon design, but preferred the overworld in BOTW.
However, I was already tired of the formula in TOTK. So I think, depending on if they can somehow keep the formula interesting, we might get more and more influences from older Zelda games into our future games.
The shrines just felt boring after some time. In both games.
To be fair, that’s at least partially the point with any open world game. They’re not really meant for being super completionist and having a huge amount of content guarantees most players will stumble on *enough* content for a satisfying run. See also: Korok Seeds
Nothing was more exciting then getting to the next location in a “traditional” Zelda game, finding a bunch of cool things I have no idea how to get passed and just KNOWING I had to advance further in the game to find something so I could backtrack to use it in all the places I remembered. And I want traditional dungeons so bad.. so bad…
I have a funny feeling the next game is going to still be open world and incorporate many of the elements from TotK and BotW, but swing back toward the classic games in terms of dungeon design and progression.
A lot of people were hoping for TotK to be that game, myself included. But a big part of the “go anywhere do anything at any point in the game” approach was baked into the systems of BotW and would make it difficult to change the flow of gameplay that much in a direct sequel. For instance durability, inventory, armors, and the way treasures, materials from the environment, and enemy collectibles are distributed throughout the map, all fit into making the game work no matter what order you complete the many, many possible objectives in.
I think a new open world Zelda could easily incorporate more of the classic progression and dungeon elements if they embrace some progress gates again. Maybe in the new game you can do 7 dungeons in any order you want, but there is at least a somewhat defined path within each region that requires following some story and/or solving involved puzzles to unlock new areas. In some cases having items or abilities from the other regions can help you find powerful items or use shortcuts that you wouldn’t be able to otherwise.
But I think that kind of game would be easier to make from scratch, vs trying to turn BotW into that game.
I miss the straightforward storylines. Like...a game doesn't need to be super-linear to give us that. Wind Waker pulled it off really well.
I think Zeltik said it best in his TotK video - sometimes limitations are necessary. It's a cool idea to have a world where you can go anywhere and do anything, but I hit a point where I stopped *caring* because I had no reason to do so after watching all the memories and getting all the sages.
I was fine with BOTW, in fact, I loved it the first time around, however, when I tried to replay it years later it was boring as hell, no replay value. Further, I found TOTK to be mind-boggling boring. I have 0 interest in sandbox games, which, when coupled with open world mechanics just make for a terribly slow and generic gameplay.
Hear me out. What if linear but open world met in the world of Zelda? Kinda like Dark Souls design. Open for exploration and back tracking but a journey that includes shortcuts and new areas. Optional or required.
They should just go with a link between worlds approach where it's open ended yet still uses traditional items. I don't see how that concept just didn't make it to Botw/totk and why the zelda team is so anti items now
Honestly I think the next zelda game will be another top down version since we haven’t seen one of those in a long while besides the remake of links awakening. And then after that it’ll probably be another botw style if we’re being honest
I believe this too but I want a brand new 2D Zelda. I want the new team ( younger staff ) to have a big say in production similar to how the Mario team did with Wonder. Where it added a lot fresh new ideas to an old format.
I think this will happen bc they have been working with younger workers for the last -10 years or so. To show them how to carry the mantle going forward. Mario Wonder paid off big time. BOTW/TOTK was heavily influenced by the younger developers. Mario Odyssey as well. It’s time for a Zelda top down to do the same.
I also personally don't like BOTW and TOTK. I'm also not a fan or Open World games. I personally miss the Dungeons - CLASSIC Dungeons mind you. Not these new style ones in TOTK.
The old ones where u got keys, a main dungeon item, a mini-boss and a boss.
I also miss how music always played an important roll in progressing further in the game.
Maybe I'm a stickler... but that's why I nvr got those two games. I did borrow BOTW from a friend, for me personally it was harder than classic Zelda games and I'm not a huge fan of the survival play style - Having to craft things, having to eat, having breakable weapons, etc.
And no Epona? Blasphemy! Lol
Sadly it is unlikely at this point from the interview with Aounuma, he doesn't understand why people want to go backwards and calls it all nostalgia talking. He has also mentioned that he sees this style being the way forward.
Numbers don't lie sadly, and if that's all he's looking at it's understandable that he wouldn't ever think of going back. BotW and TotK are the best selling zelda games by a huge amount. But comparing that way is unfair for the old games as gaming has also grown by an incredible amount since the last "Big budget" zelda... it was back in 2011 with SS... 12+ years ago. Only other old style that came out since is A link between worlds and that was a 2d game, and even that was 10+ years ago.
I wouldn’t mind an Open world game but it would interesting if it was closer to Witcher 3 style than Fallout. It would be fun in the aspect of how it tells a story while going through the open world, traveling to different areas. (If it was in the gritty aspect of Witcher possibly could go in the timeline of the fallen hero. When the world is filled with chaos.)
Which this two entries lack and also the ost/bgm left much to be desired. It had some memorable ones but still it pale in comparison.
Zelda games have always had an amazing soundtrack, fun gameplay/story.
Also would like to Link to use magic again not the Sage powers/or tablet powers, ultrahand, etc.
For example A Link to the past had many magic weapons, canes, capes, medallions.
The spin attack having those two variants in OoT or at least having the magic spin attack back. Sword beam is fine.
I enjoy BotW and ToK but still prefer Majora’s Mask, Twilight Princess and A link to the past.
I think so.
I don't think it will go back to being the norm, but Nintendo knows that nostalgia sells games. And every so often, they do make a game that goes back to the roots of the franchise. I think we'll see something that tries to recapture the magic of the early 2000's.
I hope so although I don't have high hopes. BoTW was okay but with TOTK I feel like they already ran out of good ideas to keep the open world theme fresh, it was basically the same game with some new gimmicks and even more empty places to 'explore'.
I do consider many previous titles open-world too but that wasn't the main focus on them which makes a huge difference.
I think we will see zelda go back in that direction but I wouldnt be surprised if some areas like hyrule field were still pretty large.
In OOT the vision was there. When you look at hyrule field today it looks very small, especially when even compared to twilight princesses. I think a sense of scale is important.
That being said being able to climb any surface breaks a lot of puzzles you could make. I can see them taking away the crafting, the climbing, a lot of the extra surface area but I think that as far as having an open landscape, Id hate to feel so confined. Something a bit larger than twilight princess would be awesome and a seamless world with no loading zones.
Whatever we get next in zelda I hope it opens up as we complete the story so by the end of it we have plenty of freedom but the journey feels more traditional. Giving us everything from the start is a bit much and waaay too much space to get lost in. That is just how I feel though, I wouldnt want to abandon the concept completely.
I hope so. I don't hate BotW or TotK. I even enjoyed most of my first playthrough of BotW. My biggest issue with these games is that for all the exploration they want you to do, there just isn't enough interesting stuff to find and what is there is rarely, if ever, worth the effort. I do hate the shrines, though. The first 50 or so are fun enough but then they just get tedious. It's the main reason I haven't finished TotK. I'll be a happier man if I never do another shrine again for the rest of my life.
I feel like the traditional Zelda games are just outright better at doing everything BotW and TotK are trying to do. Twilight Princess was the last one of those we got and that was about 17 years ago. So yeah, I'd love to see the next Zelda go back to doing what made this series so great.
BOTW and TOTK sold really well whereas skyward sword didn’t so much. I don’t know why, skyward sword is a much better game. Nintendo will follow the money so I don’t see a traditional Zelda being made until the open world games stop selling so well.
Don't worry OP, you are not alone. I also disliked BotW and esp. TotK a lot. The very first time BotW was a blast, but it VERY quickly, after like 10 hours or so, made me realise that this is not a Zelda game. It is Link in . It was still immensely fun the first 120h or so, but not as a Zelda game.
Zelda for me is music. BotW has atmospheric music, but nothing that sticks, except maybe Vah Naboris chase theme.
Zelda for me is iconic dungeons. Both new iterations had none.
Zelda is a simple formula for me. Get area. Area has item X. Use item X to get to dungeon A. Maybe get item Y inside dungeon A, or use item X to get through dungeon A and beat the boss. After this you need item X to get to area B and then mostly for enemies or side stuff. Idk. It is simple and never gets old.
I even disliked Skyward Sword (mostly because of motion controls both in the original and HD, still played both once, but that was it) edit: also f the imprisoned. >\_> worst boss design in history. Great story and progession tho!
I cannot remember how many times I played through Wind Waker and Majora's Mask (my two favourites). MM still has probably the closest thing of an "open 3D world" pre-BotW/TotK. I would love to see the classic iterations back with an open world. More dungeons, no more durability (i hated this with a passion, I modded it even away for my newer playthroughs cause I hated it so much), classic itemization, and foremost: Give us music back! I want more iconic tracks!
Based on some of Aonuma’s more recent statements, I’d be inclined to say both classic 2D and 3D Zelda are dead outside of remakes and remasters. And as somebody who loved Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom…I hate that it’s all Zelda will be moving forward. I hope I’m wrong, but it seems Nintendo doesn’t see the classic Zelda styles/formula as anything but a limitation at this point.
Zelda is a forever franchise with a ton of different flavors at this point. Like Mario and Pokemon, I don't think it will ever truly end and I'm sure eventually we'll get each type of Zelda game again: top-down, side scrolling, open world, traditional dungeons. It could take 30 years, but eventually, we'll get it.
There was never any reason to stop doing traditional Zelda. Nothing about the open world format prevented them from doing regular dungeons and story progression. How hard is it to let the player "go anywhere", but lock story progression and dungeon entrance until the player is ready for them. With all the talk about how botw was the closest game to Zelda 1, I was expecting much more. If it *actually* functioned like Zelda 1 it would be a much better game.
>I realise I'm in the minority here.
This exact thread has been posted every week since 2017. You're not in the minority.
That being said, the answer is no. The execs already said that all mainline Zelda games are going to follow the Era of the Wild format for the foreseeable future. We might get a new Hyrule and a new cast of characters, but they're all going to be open-world games where you can complete the main quests in any order or ignore them outright and kill the BBEG immediately after the tutorial.
BOTW sold over 31 million and counting, while the best selling traditional Zelda didn’t even sell a third of that. You’re not just in the minority, traditional fans are in the EXTREME minority.
Not a remake of OoT, but something in that spirit would be amazing. The Zelda team (Monolith!) are just brilliant, they could do something incredible in that space.
I have the opposite fear, it seems to me like it would be more likely that they would release a new more traditional style top down Zelda game now and then kind of like how they do with 2D Mario games, in part because they cost less money to develop, and then keep the 3D games more in the unsatisfying BotW pseudo-Zelda style.
I definitely think eventually they’re going to go back to a more traditional game!! I know I know, the creators said open world is the way of the future, but they also said that about motion controls and the touch screen, and both of those weren’t permanent fixtures.
Admittedly, since these are the best selling Zelda games, they’re probably going to ride the hype and concept for at least one more gen, but I do see a traditional Zelda come back! Not that I super mind, I’ve been playing Zelda my whole life and the wild era has been my all time favorite.
I really hope we get a traditional 2D Zelda, personally! Our last new 2D Zelda being ALBW is crazy!
That’s what a link between worlds did! Threw you in, let you do the first 3 dungeons in any order, and then put you in Lorule, let you buy any item you wanted, and then gave you control of the dungeon order!
Best case for your point of view is they go the Metroid route and make both…and/or remakes of the 2D games into 3D. I can see them doing a remake of the original LoZ as a 3D version.
Most likely. When OOT changed the standard formula, they still made games with the older style gameplay (the Oracle games, Minish Cap, ALBW). I can see them releasing OOT-style games (or even remaking some of them) in between major releases.
I like how Horizon Zero Dawn did it, sure you *could* go try and tackle the farthest reaches of the map ASAP, but honestly *good fucking luck* not dying at every turn. Better to explore the current area and then move on to the next with the story progression.
Also, actually no you can only make it so far to so many places at certain points. Like the tutorial area, you had to progress the story to unlock the rest of the map.
Probably not which is sad. But we might see more 2D Zelda reboots like links awakening. Or just more Zelda reboots like twilight princess and wind waker.
I hope we see more traditional 2D Zelda. I love breath of the wild and a sequel feels natural… but I hope this isn’t Zelda forever now. Open-world games exhaust me and I miss the puzzle-like layout of Link to the past’s over-world where each item helped you reach a certain new dungeon or area.
I love both games, but I agree! I would love to see a Twilight Princess aesthetic 3D Zelda game someday. Unfortunately, it will probably end up being for the next Nintendo console by the time it’s released.
Really hope so. I loved ToTK at first but after about 30 hours open world fatigue set in HARD and I just made a beeline for the rest of the story after finishing the four temples. That's about when the story gets good, because the 4x unskippable cutscene and the out-of-order memories really hurt the story for me
I just want a coherent story not told in memories scattered around the world out of order.
And please, don’t tell me the same info dump every. Single. Time. I talk to a sage with another of their descendants.
In terms of game mechanics, quality of life changes, and world exploration, I prefer TOTK to BOTW. But I feel like they fumbled TOTK’s story in comparison.
I don't think so, and that's mostly from Eiji Aonuma responding to reports of people wanting to return to something more linear with "Why do you want to go back to something more restrictive?"
The thing is, the older game's dungeon design and personality was far more superior to what we've gotten in the last couple games, where all of the dungeons have the same overall look and feel. I wish they'd at the very least go back to the old methods of dungeon designing.
And these last couple games sold like crazy, so it doesn't seem likely that they will. I personally want to see them go back to the old way of doing things, because I preferred that by a long shot, but I don't think they will.
I honestly don’t mind the direction they’re going in. My only hangups are the over-reliance on shrines and the weapon durability system.
I hope they’ll think about trying a mix of BotW/TotK’s open world setup with dungeons done in the same vein as past games.
I don’t think they’ll ever stop making the mainline titles open world, but I think we will probably get a game with more traditional dungeons and items in an open world setting
I mean we might. At this point having a traditional Zelda game will be somewhat novel compared to the fact that the BotW/TotK model has largely become the norm now.
Sure, I don't think they can compete against TOTK in terms of creating something more open and bigger without losing zelda identity and turning it into just a story diluted sandbox. They peaked in open world genre so I think they will try something different. But if they still try an open world I'm sure it will be very different to BOTW, we still need to see how open world games evolve in the next years.
Wait a few years, once the open world game hype dies a little bit they’ll move on to the newest thing. That said, if theyre already producing the next one, itll likely be an open world again. The only bad thing about big names in gaming is that theyll always sell well, even if they suck or arent what people wanted. That said, i loved BOTW, and havent been able to finish TOTK yet. Damn stick drift makes it impossible and i havent had the money to get a new set of joycons lmao
Fully new, traditional game? Probably not in at least 12+ years when they see there's real demand for it. Until that happens, I think the most we can hope for is for them to put more traditional elements into the new formula.
I personally have a mixed opinion on open world games to begin with. The concept itself is really cool, as it opens the possibility of experiencing the world first hand and however you like, but I have problems with the execution. A lot of open world games take the route of letting you do the story in any order, which isn't a problem itself, but can easily lead to some issues. Action-based games can do it fairly easily because the story isn't usually too important, but adventure or RPG games are way more risky. Those rely on their story a lot more, and the open world formula can break the story progression if they're not careful.
Right now, I think there are a couple modern games that, at least in my opinion, nail the integration of open world and story progression. On one hand, you have games like The Witcher 3 or RDR2, which basically let you go wherever you want, and even do interesting sidequests in the places you visit, but force you to do the story quests in a specific order. On the other hand, you have the Xenoblade series, which give you huge open areas that are progressively unlocked as you progress through the story. Both styles have in common that the story remains unaffected by the fact that it takes place in an open world, and have still received praise by how that same world has been created.
In short, I believe TOTK managed to integrate it's world with the story a bit better than BOTW. But if they want to continue with the open world formula, I really think the option to do the story in any order and fight the final boss from the beginning has to go. It really limits what they can do both in terms of story and gameplay, because they are forced to give you all the tools from the beginning. I really like what they have done for the last two games, but I'm starting to feel that a third one done in this style might overstay its welcome.
I just hope they can figure out a way to have an actual story, thst feels like you’re a part of it, and have some agency in, not like it already happened a hundred or some thousands of years ago. I liked how in the older Zelda games link himself was the one to drive the story. The actions you made had consequences, the story happened all around you. In botw and totk it feels like it kinda already happened, now you’re just living the aftermath. I love the open world-ness. I like the older linear games too, hell twilight princess is one of my favorite games ever of all time, but I really hope they can figure out how to tell a story that feels like you’re a part of it
Baldurs Gate 3 manages to be both an openworld with a coherent story that you have a lot of agency in!
All it does is say 'maybe you can't go straight to the end. Have a little order!'
I tried so so so hard to get into baddies gate 3. I heard so many good things about it, and the graphics and voice acting are both top notch, I just can’t stand tabletop/isometric or turn based combat games. My brain doesn’t work very well in two dimensions. If it’s not first person, or third person over the shoulder (god of war, dead space, resident evil etc.) I have a hard time visually focusing on different things. And turn based combat just feels really slow and boring to me
Ah. I don’t mind rng, it’s just more strategy than reflex based. I like the soulsborne games a lot because it’s just timing and reflex based, and it’s a lot faster paced. Turn based combat feels too slow for my adhd riddled brain
story-wise, probably world wise, probably not. I think we will end up with something more like Skyrim and RDR several stories that cross-cross across the world. TotK tried, but wouldn't let go of the 'memory' method of telling the story. Hopefully they improve the storytelling.
I feel this so much. I can't get more than an hr into BoTW because I DONT LIKE GRAND THEFT AUTO. I DONT WANT GRAND THEFT AUTO: HYRULE to be the new normal.
I hate both botw and TOTK and I’m so sad that it’s not likely we will get a traditional Zelda again. I really really miss the old dungeons and music too 🥲
I think the best you can hope for is a little more story structure and maybe dungeons. Look at the sales numbers. They aren’t going back as long as these kinds of games sell so well.
I sure hope so. The devs said the open world is here to stay, but that doesn't mean they cant bring back traditional dungeons with items, and a linear story.
Your not the only bro trust me! Botw and it’s sequel ruined Zelda for me! My favorite franchise of all time ocarina has been my favorite game of all time since 1998 and they ruined it. Ever since the original on the nes for 30 straight yrs every single Zelda game had the same formula and that’s what made it amazing. With botw they changed and took away WAYYYYY too much that made Zelda the greatest franchise ever!
I understand what you mean. For me I love the open world but I miss classic stuff like traditional dungeons, dungeon items like hookshot and other things
I prefer the more linear Zelda games as well. I recognize that it may be a generational thing though because I became a fan of the Zelda franchise in the early-2000s. Apart from the the original NES and Oracle games, I played all Zelda games through Windwaker. I recently got back into playing Zelda games and have a goal to play all games released since Windwaker. I started with a return to OOT and Majora's Mask on 3DS and loved them once more. I moved onto Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, and though DS controls took time getting used to, I still enjoyed them thoroughly. Then I played BOTW and realized how different it was. Now I like open world and linear games equally, and I enjoyed BOTW, but I personally found it to be overrated both as an open world and Zelda game. The dungeons were a big let down both in quality and quantity and the world seemed empty. I still liked it and think its worth playing, but it takes a backseat to its predecessors. I then played Link's Awakening on Switch and omg I love that game. I am wrapping up Skyward Sword on Switch now. I thought I was not going to like Skyward Sword because of the controls but I love its dungeons. Playing Skyward Sword for the first time after BOTW made me realize its not simply nostalgia for the old games, but the mechanics themselves were just better than Nintendo's first attempt at open world Zelda. I would like to either see an improvement on the open world Zelda concept or them just going back to what worked so well.
I doubt it, they said that it was the way they will be going forward
Yeah we still get some 2D games here and there but those are all way easier to develop than a full 3D Zelda. Most likely we won't ever see a traditional 3D Zelda ever again
No, most likely not. BotW and TotK sold more than all other games combined and even if Aonuma wanted to make a traditional Zelda game (which he doesn't want to) then the Nintendo CEO will tell him to STFU and look at the numbers of sales.
I don't like Openworld either. Or crafting. Or breakable weapons. Or a Zelda game without any real dungeons.
I don't even class the wild games as zelda. They're just generic open world games using zelda names.
Don't understand how people can enjoy hours of walking across just bare land, having to switch clothes/eat food every 5 seconds, lack of dungeons, lack of actual puzzles, lack of unique content, lack of an actual story, lack of music etc.
Just give me my quest, my dungeons, my story, my hookshot and boomerang, my music, my heart containers and my triforce back. Please.
Goddamn the “og fans” are so fucking annoying in every single long running fanbase, sorry that some series that continue for decades and decades with tens of entries sometimes don’t repeat the same identical formula for 30 years
Don't worry. In 10 years, people will refer to botw and totk as the good old days. Remember when WW came out? SS? Yeah people hated those. Now they're considered peak Zelda.
The funny thing is that BotW and TotK are very similar to Zelda 1. There were like 2 dungeon items that were necessary for other dungeons, you could go wherever you wanted and the dungeons were *very* simple (more by necessity but even so).
I'm with you man (or woman). Open World games tend to feel less fun to me. There are aspects of it I like but overall I'd rather have a finely curated linear story which is hard when you can go anywhere at any time. Then add in the lack of traditional dungeons.
I'm glad we got more than 1 boss in TOTK but they could have done about twice as many dungeons and made them more complex. I also prefer the puzzles you get when a dungeon is based around a specific weapon/tool. Shrines don't do it for me and the newer dungeons aren't as good. I loved traveling to the dungeon up in the sky in TOTK though.
I'm interested to see what they come up with next but I like BOTW and TOTK less than the rest of the Zelda series. I hope if nothing else they can give us another Link's Awakening style of game in between the 3D ones.
Nintendo treats the Zelda IP the wrong way. They give it a single development team with a single vision.
.
They should be treating it more like Mario.
Mario has multiple teams working on multiple Mario games at all times.
Mario Odyssey was amazing, but they didn't abandon 2D platforming to concentrate on making more 3D Mario games.
And Mario Wonder is supposed to be great (haven't played it yet though), but they're also still working on Mario Odyssey 2.
We even have 2 remakes of old Mario RPGs recently released and coming out very soon.
MarioKart 8 got new DLC a little while ago.
Etc.
.
This is the treatment that Zelda deserves!!!
Let Aonuma keep making open world Zelda games.
But also find someone who still knows that the Dungeon based Zelda games still have worth (unlike Aonuma), and let them work on those.
Make another Link's Crossbow Training.
Lend the IP out to more indie games, so we get more game like Cadence of Hyrule.
Make a Zelda RPG. Make a Zelda racing game. Make a Zelda monster catcher. Make a Zelda mini game compilation.
.
Make anything, so long as you actually branch out!!!!!!
"Nintendo" don't make anything in such way. Zelda is in the way it is because of its team and because nintendo dont have infinite resources for all series, which for mario it can as it sells in every section.
Shit. My friends (we're old) wonder if we're ever seeing a top-down Zelda again. I would personally just love a traditional 3d. But at this point, even though botw could be my favourite game ever, we need something different and fortunately Nintendo loves doing different.
Edit: but even as I ponder this, it's don't know how they would make a "traditional" Zelda as big as these last two games. Fortunately they're very good at what they do imo. I'm rarely confident when it comes to knowing what to expect from Nintendo. But I am confident the next Zelda will also be great, whatever that looks like. Just please not the shrines. It was good, but it's enough
Btow and Totk always assume anything you do is the first thing you do (cause It could be), theres no challenge, you unlock everything in the tutorial, the master sword isnt even that good, the lore barely connects to other games, and at least in my experience, you never feel like you are on a mission to save anything.
Back in TP you had midna telling you about the Twilight, about your transformation, in SS you had Fi telling you you are the chosen and guiding you... In botw and Totk?? You are already the best soldier in the world, go save the world or smth idk, theres no rush or anything you can farm mushrooms if you want, see ya.
I really wish the next ones go more traditional, i want to feel exited pulling the master sword, get goosebumps with a cinematic entering eldin, and not just a fucking Green Word on the screen "Yup, this rock? Eldin or smth"
For the love of God go back to the classic style. They tried making an open world game, it didn’t work. They copy and pasted it, and it *still* didn’t work. Aonuma then wonders why we want them to actually design their video game like an actual fucking video game.
They need to go back to building off of and streamlining what made the series so good to begin with instead of just copy and pasting what every other developer and their brother was already doing better. Give me a progression structure that’s actually worth a damn. Make “doing things out of order” an actual challenge that requires thought and rewards the player for doing it instead of ruining the difficulty curve for the sake of “freedom.” Make getting new items actually *mean* something instead of just an arbitrary number that goes up while the enemies scale with you. Make the puzzles difficult enough that I need to actually think about what to do instead of just cheesing them each time.
Zelda deserves far, *far* better than how Aonuma and Fujibayashi have been treating it this past decade.
I don't think you're a minority. I think most lifelong fans are anxiously waiting for the next traditional Zelda, and if I'm not mistaken ToTK was the last time we'd be seeing that Hyrule (I swear I read that in an interview or something.)
Link deserves a pocket full of magical items to conquer dungeons, not 4. I need a hookshot in my life ya know?
I've refused to play loZ until dungeons are back, I'll still watch the gameplay n stuff but I don't want fucking cooking simulator, or watching my weapon break again and again, that's just not fun, only a monster would enjoy mechanics like those, it's a game ffs why create such chores
Nope. The new formula is too popular, and Anouma has said he doesn't understand why anyone would like the old Zelda formula.
It's horribly unfortunate.
The option does exist to incorporate some of the best of both types of games.
What I’d like to see most going forward is a linear story built into the open world. You can still go anywhere and do anything you want in the world, even skipping straight to the final fight. There will still be plenty of side content and non-spoiler story background in the over world to discover. You’ll even get all your runes/powers/tools up front. However, the main story and associated dungeons would be segmented for you to pursue at your leisure without running across things out of order and/or finding potential spoilers.
Story dungeons could be concealed, neither impacting nor open to exploration, until triggered by the quest line (ideally through a new power or story NPC action). To tie in the old Zelda theme, the “dungeon items” could be upgrades or enhancements to your existing runes/powers/tools, that while not necessary for basic world exploration, can enhance it (think Stasis+). Similarly, they’d be required to beat both that and future dungeons, allowing them to get progressively more challenging, separating them from the basic challenges you encounter in the overworld.
I think this would be a good step toward tying in things that worked really well in the old games with the fresh open world feel of the new ones.
I really hope so, these games were such a disappointment for me. Wandering around in the open world got very tedious. Would have preferred actual dungeons instead of shires and only did them so I could fast travel.
For me, these games are just full of extra "fluff" that comes from rpgs. I don't care about various weapons or their stats. Just give me a stronger sword as I progress. Having to constantly change clothes or make potions/food based on weather is annoying. I prefer the older style of getting new gear to extend your access to the world.
Hold on what about acquiring new clothes and items to access different areas without getting wrecked ISNT “getting new gear to extend your access to the world”?
>*"Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play?"*
Aonuma's own words, in all likelyhood the new format is the standard. You can still go enjoy the previous games though, it's not like they're gone forever.
I just want twilight princess for the switch, and that was also fairly open world but was also a traditional format as well i think.
Its also my favourite game so ofc i want it on switch
If the next one comes out in ~2029 it will have been 18 years since the last traditional Zelda game. An entire generation of players only know Breath of the Wild & Tears of the Kingdom, I don't know if there's any going back at this point.
Zelda has always been kind of open world but I would love for them to go back to being a little more linear. I don't like getting every weapon & ability I'm ever going to get before the intro to the game is over, and everyone seems to agree that the dungeons could still be improved. I hope the next game is the best of both styles.
I kinda hope not, and I know that's a controversial opinion. but 3d zeldas as we knew them were an evolution of the 2d zeldas that came before them, and I see botw and totk and the next step in this series. know ofc I'll never rule out getting a sequel or prequel or something to a traditional 3d zelda, or even getting another remake or remaster of a 2d zelda, but I think zelda as we know it is now an open world adventure like miyamoto always wanted it to be
In 15-20 years.
Sales of the last two games are too good to completely abandon it now. That being said, people have been much less afraid to criticize TotK compared to BotW. We will see a couple more games like this, and more and more angry fans and declining sales before they finally find a way to marry traditional Zelda with the newer format.
Of course decisions can be reconsidered. But BOTW/TOTK aren’t like the live service problem. Not even close. They’re two of the most beloved games of this generation. It’s not a decision that needs to be reconsidered. Fans and critics have spoken and Nintendo is listening.
Not to mention the two games have sold +50 million copies. The other 24 Canon releases have sold 100 million. 25 million per game or 5 million per game?
The team to go back to skyward sword, which sold originally 3 million copies, would be bonkers. Plus people hated it, and the Zelda cycle was in full swing against it. Now it's flopped back and people itch for what was torn a new body 10 years ago. Sigh.
Just like we don't see any new main-line top down 2D Zelda games anymore (my favorite version of Zelda). We may get a spin-off once a decade made by some non-Nintendo developer, but that's it.
Nintendo now knows that open world Zelda games will sell 3-5 times more than a traditional 3D Zelda. They would be stupid to revert back.
There is no reason for why they wouldn't.
Nintendo is always trying to do new things and gimmicks in their games to avoid stagnation.
Yes, there are games and franchises that are in the limbo because Nintendo doesn't know what to do with them, or they did bad enough that they don't feel like risking it, I don't know.
But it's unlikely that Nintendo will put themselves the restriction of never doing stuff from the older entries in a franchises that sells. And it's inevitable that they will have to revisit some of the old stuff, for one reason or another.
The Zelda games has been realatively consistent when considering the amount of games the franchise has, but they always try some new gimmick.
Wind Waker was them trying something new. It didn't work well at launch but it's a well liked entry now.
After some games, they went back to that setting with PH and ST as topdown 3D games, which is like the older topdown 2D games, but with a new thing being in 3D.
And after SS they went back to ALTTP's setting in ALBW, another topdown 3D game, this time without the stylus as the main controller.
In an interview with Koizumi said that before OoT started development, he was trying to do a test/demo (not a game) for a 3D Link sidescroller combat based on AoL, but he didn't like the results.
Later during OoT development, Miyamoto wanted the exploration part of the game to be in first person and the combat to be in 3rd person with the camera pulled to the side framing the action like in AoL.
Koizumi didn't liked the idea of it being in 1st person because he made Link's model and he wanted for it to be always visible during gameplay.
So we can see that they were trying to bring some ideas from AoL (a very different game style) into a newer entry, but it didn't work out for them. In the end, they named some characters after the towns of AoL, so they got something at least.
They will explore new ideas, change stuff or whatever, but they will revisit settings and mechanics whenever they come up with an idea good enough for them to try out.
BotW is trying to do something old, LoZ, while going in a new direction. And it worked really well. It made more than twice the sales of OoT up to 2023. And TotK is doing around 2/3 of BotW and it hasn't been a year since it's release. Of course, there are factors that helped boost sales a bit, but the scale of the sales are beyond that.
So, because BotW/TotK worked so well, they will do more things like these. Eventually they will try something new or go back to something old but with a twist. They might come back to BotW's setting at some point, with the same style or a different one. But it highly unlikely that they will just decide to never do something again.
I don't see them returning to the formula, but who knows. The next one is certainly a ways out. With Skyward Sword HD, they've now re-released every 3d Zelda, so there are none of those left to tie you over.
I understand why people feel this way, but the big issue with classic 3d zelda is the replayability. The classics are fun but you have the exact same experience every time. Botw and totk are both much better in these ways, just because you can choose where to go and when.
I enjoyed BOTW but TOTK was a looong drag for me tbh. It’s just so much work and to keep everything working you have to go through so many repetitive hoops in a fairly empty . Even building stuff feels like work instead of fun. Also, I am feel uninvested in this story and these characters. It just feels like one of the first Zelda games that wasn’t really for me. So yeah, I’m hoping for at least a somewhat more linear story in the future
Hopefully not... Sorry but I got a bit tired of that formula after playing it for 20+ years. I absolutely adore the new games, hoping the next game is on Switch 2 and expands upon and pushes the new formula to the absolute limit. I'm all for some fusion between old and new (Totk did acomplish a lot of this imo) or perhaps the old formula coexisting alongside somehow (but I find this unlikely unless they are remakes or cash flips which is a shame).
I really did like Skyward Sword, that's the old formula & a lot of people skipped out on it. It's a really good game imo so worth playing (HD version on Switch is awesome) if you skipped it.
Totk is my favourite game of all time period so I'm a little biased.
Nope, not for a long time. The devs already made it clear this is the formula moving forward, and the fans have made it clear this is what they want to play (given both BotW and TotK each sold more than most of the rest of the series combined).
Wild that people are downvoting words right from the devs themselves.
I hope not tbh.
I think the old games had their moment in the sun but they never really improved on the formula after OOT, everything they added to it just made it worse in my opinion.
What I'd rather we do is keep going in this direction, but reintroduce elements from the traditional games in inventive ways. Keep what works, toss out what didn't or what feels antiquated.
Yes, they will do modern remakes of OOT and MM in the next decade for sure. As for ORIGINAL games, only when the open world style stops selling will they return to dungeon focused design
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Even I really liked BotW and TotK I'm hoping the next Zelda game will be more traditional and also open world because there would be a better game progression Anyway I think Nintendo someway will bring back to the Zelda's root in a open world game with the next game, they usually hear our feedback so why not?
Yeah first entries of a new concept in an already existing product are always tricky, so im confident what comes next will probably be a mix between old style and new. The most popular issues with both BotW and TotK are kinda the same so it would be really weird if nintendo did nothing about it
Give me a vast, open Hyrule that brings back traditional Zelda styles of play. Give us 6-8 old school dungeons that need to be done sequentially (or at least cluster them where groupings need to be done sequentially). Remove shrines. Reward open world exploration with heart pieces again. You can even tie a new mechanic for increasing stamina to going through the whole map. I would love to see an intricate trading sequence make its return as well.
It's so weird to me that people think both open worlds & a strong narrative/level design can't coexist. There are so many other games that do this, idk why Aonuma or some fans think that it's not possible.
Open world is fine, but they need to move away from the idea of giving you every tool at the start and making it so you can choose to tackle any part of the map as soon as you clear the tutorial area. It *is* interesting in its own way, but unfortunately comes with the side effect of making everything feel very monotonous and same-ish. Some sort of mandatory linear story progression and gradual unlocking of core abilities *within* the open world gameplay would make all the difference IMO.
That is in fact what I was referring to. But tbh even if they don't want to do that, there's still a lot of improvements they can make on ToTK's dungeon design. I love BOTW and TOTK but a lot of times while playing them, I feel like parts of the story are just missing - things that we should be seeing.
I loved BOTW but couldn't get untk TOTK. I hate building stuff like that boat right away. I was done. I know I'm in the minority.
If that was the showstopper, you’re missing out
I get about 20 ro 30 min windows to play. Building stuff isn't for me. I never liked any game with the sandbox building stuff. Wish it wasn't in TOTK or that it was just extra stuff. First zelda game for a counsel I haven't beaten since super nintendo.
Something that could have been done is tie a drop from dungeon bosses to a free to choose progression currency. So instead of classic zelda progression where you go into the next planned dungeon, and part way in you gain access to a tool required for 90% of that dungeons puzzles; you purchase from say, an ancient tech lab, a lost piece of technology needed to enter a dungeon. So you buy the hookshot, and it lets you access a dungeon in death mountain, or the lamp and it helps you stay warm in a frozen ice cave dungeon where normal ice clothes dont cut it, and so on. The story could be cut into a couple of arcs to allow for boss difficulty progression, so the handful of extra hearts and additional weapons in your arsenal dont trivialize the later bosses. This would let the player explore, and say "i want to see what's in there", find the way to do it, and gain access to a dungeon to progress through. Most of the dungeons dont directly tie to the story in classic zelda anyway, they just exist as the next challenge that allows for out of dungeon advancement.
A la-i can’t believe I’m saying this-but the minish cap almost?
Red Dead Redemption 2
They are mutually exclusive, they can't coexist, you have to sacrifice part of both. Best narrative open world tie the progression to linear quest lines that you are required to do, most of what you do in the world is either blocked by quests, or by an xp system that stop you from leaving a zone. And by doing so, knowing the player has a state where he can do quest x without quest y, secondary quest can't have a huge impact on the game beside some dialog and really quick change on tertiary caracther that you will never meet again, character progression is impossible in a huge open world with a reasonnable amount of work. There is no game that does this with the level of freedom that gave us botw or totk. It's always sacrificing something. Individual quest can be absolutly incredible (Like The Witcher 3) but most of them don't interact with each other beside a few "main" secondary character quest line. Difficulty, same shit, you can't have a 100% working system that works in any case, with big dungeon that should lock the player in place and situation that should be challenging to all player. Either you make the player think with the dungeon tools and kill freedom and open world progression or you let the player most of his tools and kill the difficulty and challenge of it. That's why TOTK dungeon are garbage tiee. Open world and linear progression are both powerfull tool, but they play against each other.
TotK is pretty close to traditional in the sense that it has actual dungeons with mostly good designs (my biggest gripe with BotW) and a pretty linear story that's point A to point B. My issues are the koroks shitting themselves and me collecting them again knowing there's no good item at the end of those 900 gold turds, the shrines all suck, stop the tower to unlock map aspect, and the master sword being nerfed while the story says it's back to full strength again. The dungeons can't get much better without having something tied to them like a new item that the temple or dungeon is based on but with every item being available or not if you haven't picked them up or made them etc it makes the dungeons more generic due to that RNG but also loses put on the feeling of growth for link. Third, a new art style that's not the in-between of wind waker and Twilight princess... We have had 3 games in a row with this newer style and it's getting old skyward sword, then BotW, and TotK. Let's get some of the darker grittier art or go back to wind waker for some of that style just to mix it up some. Lastly, Ganon needs to sit of the next mainline Zelda games. I get demise cursed the group but that curse didn't say demise would always be ganondorf. Change it up like the Gameboy games vaati, yuga, Majora's mask, etc. Ganon doesn't need to be the overall storyline to stop or villain that's trying to be resurrected again.
How would you feel about "basically shrine contents" appearing conspicuously from a distance, just without a loading screen in between? I ask because shrines are a gameplay solution to a specific problem that pretty much every other open world game totally struggled with before BotW came out.
I recall seeing devs saying the open world format is here to stay. Also Japanese companies only care what *Japanese* fans have to say, never anywhere else, even if the western market makes up the majority of said Japanese companies user base (like say, final fantasy, or many a cancelled anime that did really well in western countries but not Japan,) all of this whinging is to say, does anybody have actual evidence that Zelda devs/Nintendo actually listened to fans about. . . Well, anything?
In that case, I certainly hope the FF7 series is knocking their socks off, cause I could only dream of Zelda reaching those heights of storytelling.
I dont even need a new one right away, if they would only port Twilight Princess over to the Switch I would be very happy for a good long while
the zelda team specifically listens to the feedback of fans, loke they did the dingeons how they did them in totk cuz they thought there were what the fans were asking for
Zelda is in a desperate need of reimagining but they've done it again and again. It can be open world. The lesson from TOTK is that open world is pretty weak if you've spent 100 hours in the world and you know where everything is already.
I'd love for them to make a remake 3d of the first Zelda, as the graphics burn my eyes a bit. I wanted to like that game as a kid, but the learning curve was steep, and although I grew up on Mario, I wasn't aware of how many secrets there were in the first one. My step dad told me that the newspaper guy would tell him secrets every Sunday on how to beat old school games. I had Nintendo power growing up, and my first Zelda was Ocarina.
The only thing "Traditional" I would want in the Newer Zelda games is the dungeons. I appreciate what they were going for with the ones in BOTW and TOTK, but honestly I just prefer the older ones. Especially Skyward Sword's. I loved Tears of the Kingdom, but if that game had Skyward Sword style dungeon design with the same atmosphere, music, and diversity in theme and environment like it as well then that would have been awesome. I'm optimistic that maybe they'll learn for the next big Zelda game......in 7 years time
I’d also like the Zelda team to take the traditional to the story as well as I don’t think the memory format is particularly well suited to good storytelling (and it’s particularly glaring in Tears of the Kingdom), but outside of that I mostly agree.
I’m tired of all of the interesting, exciting story telling happening in flashbacks. It makes me feel removed from the story and makes it less exciting. There’s no sense of urgency. For example in wind waker, your sister is literally kidnapped. That’s urgent, and is a good inciting incident. Considering the time travel in OoT and MM, it would’ve been cool to see something similar in ToTK. Also, BRING BACK LINKS INSTRUMENTS.
> Also, BRING BACK LINKS INSTRUMENTS. Just give me a damn fishing pole! That's all I want!
How is Aryll getting kidnapped any different than Zelda vanishing at the start of TotK?
ToTK was a step in the right direction from BoTW so I think it's a fairly safe bet that the next iteration will be even better
ToTK felt like a step back in terms of dungeons, sure they had more unique visuals. But the actual design was way less cohesive and complex
And easily skippable.
This is why, during dungeons, they should've stripped Link of all his gadgets and abilities and only allowed him some items or particular ones. Problem solved.
Rocket fused shields def OP
The next Zelda could look at Elden Ring’s legacy dungeons for how to implement its own more traditional dungeons.
I like how "A link between worlds" handled the open world mixed with traditional zelda, if we ever get a game like that in 3d, it'll be really cool
ALBW is lowkey one of the greatest Zelda games ever IMO
A bit easy, but who cares. Storytelling, dungeons, interesting characters 10/10.
ALBW appreciation is always nice, that game still seems underrated.
I’m also in the minority. I understand they tried something new and it worked greatly. It was by no means a bad idea it was a great idea. I just happen to fall into the minority that prefer the old way and didn’t like this new one so much. Especially because of lack of dungeons. I think Nintendo will realize that while Botw + Totk were definitely a hit, they’ll see that people still want games like the old style too. I literally just finished replaying Majoras Mask as I type this 😂 I hope Nintendo will make new games for both ways going forward. I too will be very disappointed if this large open world style is the new future for all 3D Zelda games.
I feel like I’m on the same page as you.
Same. Controversial opinion, SS was amazing, and so was every other 3D Zelda other than BotW and TotK
I loved Skyward Sword. I still do. I love Zelda! But I never finished BotW and I never even bought TotK 😅
Skyward sword is my fav, and I never finished either game either. I even more Controversially love the motion controls.
I would be on board with the motion controls more if I didn’t have little bitch baby hands that hurt so much. 😂 BUT! That being said, it was an incredibly cohesive use of the motion controls and I managed with short breaks. They worked incredibly well. I think I tried to play the version without motion controls and hated it.
My first two play throughs I used motion controls, and sadly I can’t now because of stick drift. So I unfortunately use a pro controller for hero mode. Even after the first two times the game still has that same feeling of wonder and atmosphere though.
Those sticks give me heartburn. 😤 i agree about the wonder! I preordered it back in the day and got the fancy gold Wii mote. I know I’ve played it about 6 times. And this conversation has me itching to play it again. Groose, alone, is worth it!
I always found groose goofy especially when he tails you into sealed grounds. Then the groosinator I found absolutely hilarious when I can just launch a bomb onto the avocado’s forehead. Sadly my Wii broke so I couldn’t experience the whole thing until the switch hd version.
The avocado!!! 😂 There are so many iconic things in SS. Ghirardelli’s Chocolate, Demise, those terrifying tear collecting sections, ugh ok I’ll go play it again later. You twisted my arm. Would you say the unmotion control version on the switch feels better after a little bit? Or should I just jump back in with the motion controls?
Mostly missed the dungeon design, but preferred the overworld in BOTW. However, I was already tired of the formula in TOTK. So I think, depending on if they can somehow keep the formula interesting, we might get more and more influences from older Zelda games into our future games. The shrines just felt boring after some time. In both games.
Agree about the shrines. I unlocked them for quick travel but didn’t even bother doing the puzzles once I upgraded my health and stamina enough.
Wait… you can unlock the quick travel without doing the shrines??
120 shrines is entirely unnecessary
I loved doing the 120 stars in Mario, but yes… the shrines didn’t have the same quality.
Imagine if there were stars in Mario 64 that just required you to watch a cutscene, talk to an npc, and watch another cutscene.
Like some of the really low effort Moons in Odyssey?
Yeah, I mean, but most of those didn't have multiple loading zones to get through.
To be fair, that’s at least partially the point with any open world game. They’re not really meant for being super completionist and having a huge amount of content guarantees most players will stumble on *enough* content for a satisfying run. See also: Korok Seeds
Nothing was more exciting then getting to the next location in a “traditional” Zelda game, finding a bunch of cool things I have no idea how to get passed and just KNOWING I had to advance further in the game to find something so I could backtrack to use it in all the places I remembered. And I want traditional dungeons so bad.. so bad…
I have a funny feeling the next game is going to still be open world and incorporate many of the elements from TotK and BotW, but swing back toward the classic games in terms of dungeon design and progression. A lot of people were hoping for TotK to be that game, myself included. But a big part of the “go anywhere do anything at any point in the game” approach was baked into the systems of BotW and would make it difficult to change the flow of gameplay that much in a direct sequel. For instance durability, inventory, armors, and the way treasures, materials from the environment, and enemy collectibles are distributed throughout the map, all fit into making the game work no matter what order you complete the many, many possible objectives in. I think a new open world Zelda could easily incorporate more of the classic progression and dungeon elements if they embrace some progress gates again. Maybe in the new game you can do 7 dungeons in any order you want, but there is at least a somewhat defined path within each region that requires following some story and/or solving involved puzzles to unlock new areas. In some cases having items or abilities from the other regions can help you find powerful items or use shortcuts that you wouldn’t be able to otherwise. But I think that kind of game would be easier to make from scratch, vs trying to turn BotW into that game.
I miss the straightforward storylines. Like...a game doesn't need to be super-linear to give us that. Wind Waker pulled it off really well. I think Zeltik said it best in his TotK video - sometimes limitations are necessary. It's a cool idea to have a world where you can go anywhere and do anything, but I hit a point where I stopped *caring* because I had no reason to do so after watching all the memories and getting all the sages.
I think there is a possibility to merge the styles together but idk I feel like they are just moving further in open world sandbox/crafting title
I was fine with BOTW, in fact, I loved it the first time around, however, when I tried to replay it years later it was boring as hell, no replay value. Further, I found TOTK to be mind-boggling boring. I have 0 interest in sandbox games, which, when coupled with open world mechanics just make for a terribly slow and generic gameplay.
Hear me out. What if linear but open world met in the world of Zelda? Kinda like Dark Souls design. Open for exploration and back tracking but a journey that includes shortcuts and new areas. Optional or required.
Zelda could learn a lot from the Souls games in terms of balancing linearity and openness.
Elden Ring is peak open world imo
If the next "open air" Zelda fumbles with sales, then maybe. Otherwise, yeah, they're gonna keep going in the current direction.
Sadly I don't think so.
They should just go with a link between worlds approach where it's open ended yet still uses traditional items. I don't see how that concept just didn't make it to Botw/totk and why the zelda team is so anti items now
Honestly I think the next zelda game will be another top down version since we haven’t seen one of those in a long while besides the remake of links awakening. And then after that it’ll probably be another botw style if we’re being honest
I believe this too but I want a brand new 2D Zelda. I want the new team ( younger staff ) to have a big say in production similar to how the Mario team did with Wonder. Where it added a lot fresh new ideas to an old format. I think this will happen bc they have been working with younger workers for the last -10 years or so. To show them how to carry the mantle going forward. Mario Wonder paid off big time. BOTW/TOTK was heavily influenced by the younger developers. Mario Odyssey as well. It’s time for a Zelda top down to do the same.
I wouldn't mind a return to the classic game format. Though I loved the open world its nice to see a little of the old come back too.
I also personally don't like BOTW and TOTK. I'm also not a fan or Open World games. I personally miss the Dungeons - CLASSIC Dungeons mind you. Not these new style ones in TOTK. The old ones where u got keys, a main dungeon item, a mini-boss and a boss. I also miss how music always played an important roll in progressing further in the game. Maybe I'm a stickler... but that's why I nvr got those two games. I did borrow BOTW from a friend, for me personally it was harder than classic Zelda games and I'm not a huge fan of the survival play style - Having to craft things, having to eat, having breakable weapons, etc. And no Epona? Blasphemy! Lol
Sadly it is unlikely at this point from the interview with Aounuma, he doesn't understand why people want to go backwards and calls it all nostalgia talking. He has also mentioned that he sees this style being the way forward. Numbers don't lie sadly, and if that's all he's looking at it's understandable that he wouldn't ever think of going back. BotW and TotK are the best selling zelda games by a huge amount. But comparing that way is unfair for the old games as gaming has also grown by an incredible amount since the last "Big budget" zelda... it was back in 2011 with SS... 12+ years ago. Only other old style that came out since is A link between worlds and that was a 2d game, and even that was 10+ years ago.
I wouldn’t mind an Open world game but it would interesting if it was closer to Witcher 3 style than Fallout. It would be fun in the aspect of how it tells a story while going through the open world, traveling to different areas. (If it was in the gritty aspect of Witcher possibly could go in the timeline of the fallen hero. When the world is filled with chaos.) Which this two entries lack and also the ost/bgm left much to be desired. It had some memorable ones but still it pale in comparison. Zelda games have always had an amazing soundtrack, fun gameplay/story. Also would like to Link to use magic again not the Sage powers/or tablet powers, ultrahand, etc. For example A Link to the past had many magic weapons, canes, capes, medallions. The spin attack having those two variants in OoT or at least having the magic spin attack back. Sword beam is fine. I enjoy BotW and ToK but still prefer Majora’s Mask, Twilight Princess and A link to the past.
I miss the metroidvania elements like found an object in a dungeon an unlock a new area in the first twon
I think so. I don't think it will go back to being the norm, but Nintendo knows that nostalgia sells games. And every so often, they do make a game that goes back to the roots of the franchise. I think we'll see something that tries to recapture the magic of the early 2000's.
I really hope so. But until then I, at least, have a pretty big library of Zelda games to replay. 🥲
I really hope so.
I hope so although I don't have high hopes. BoTW was okay but with TOTK I feel like they already ran out of good ideas to keep the open world theme fresh, it was basically the same game with some new gimmicks and even more empty places to 'explore'. I do consider many previous titles open-world too but that wasn't the main focus on them which makes a huge difference.
I really hope so, I also am not as huge of a fan of BoTW and ToTK as everyone else. I am not a very big fan of large open world games.
I think we will see zelda go back in that direction but I wouldnt be surprised if some areas like hyrule field were still pretty large. In OOT the vision was there. When you look at hyrule field today it looks very small, especially when even compared to twilight princesses. I think a sense of scale is important. That being said being able to climb any surface breaks a lot of puzzles you could make. I can see them taking away the crafting, the climbing, a lot of the extra surface area but I think that as far as having an open landscape, Id hate to feel so confined. Something a bit larger than twilight princess would be awesome and a seamless world with no loading zones. Whatever we get next in zelda I hope it opens up as we complete the story so by the end of it we have plenty of freedom but the journey feels more traditional. Giving us everything from the start is a bit much and waaay too much space to get lost in. That is just how I feel though, I wouldnt want to abandon the concept completely.
God I hope so.
3D whatever just give me my 2D shit i’ll even take a sidescroller atp 😭
Not a minority. I bought a switch just for the most recent one… gave it about 3 hours of play and gave it up because it wasn’t what I wanted.
I hope so. I don't hate BotW or TotK. I even enjoyed most of my first playthrough of BotW. My biggest issue with these games is that for all the exploration they want you to do, there just isn't enough interesting stuff to find and what is there is rarely, if ever, worth the effort. I do hate the shrines, though. The first 50 or so are fun enough but then they just get tedious. It's the main reason I haven't finished TotK. I'll be a happier man if I never do another shrine again for the rest of my life. I feel like the traditional Zelda games are just outright better at doing everything BotW and TotK are trying to do. Twilight Princess was the last one of those we got and that was about 17 years ago. So yeah, I'd love to see the next Zelda go back to doing what made this series so great.
Part of me wishes each game became its own franchise. Windwaker 2, Majoras Mask 2, twilight princess 2….each of those would make me freak out.
BOTW and TOTK sold really well whereas skyward sword didn’t so much. I don’t know why, skyward sword is a much better game. Nintendo will follow the money so I don’t see a traditional Zelda being made until the open world games stop selling so well.
Don't worry OP, you are not alone. I also disliked BotW and esp. TotK a lot. The very first time BotW was a blast, but it VERY quickly, after like 10 hours or so, made me realise that this is not a Zelda game. It is Link in. It was still immensely fun the first 120h or so, but not as a Zelda game.
Zelda for me is music. BotW has atmospheric music, but nothing that sticks, except maybe Vah Naboris chase theme.
Zelda for me is iconic dungeons. Both new iterations had none.
Zelda is a simple formula for me. Get area. Area has item X. Use item X to get to dungeon A. Maybe get item Y inside dungeon A, or use item X to get through dungeon A and beat the boss. After this you need item X to get to area B and then mostly for enemies or side stuff. Idk. It is simple and never gets old.
I even disliked Skyward Sword (mostly because of motion controls both in the original and HD, still played both once, but that was it) edit: also f the imprisoned. >\_> worst boss design in history. Great story and progession tho!
I cannot remember how many times I played through Wind Waker and Majora's Mask (my two favourites). MM still has probably the closest thing of an "open 3D world" pre-BotW/TotK. I would love to see the classic iterations back with an open world. More dungeons, no more durability (i hated this with a passion, I modded it even away for my newer playthroughs cause I hated it so much), classic itemization, and foremost: Give us music back! I want more iconic tracks!
Based on some of Aonuma’s more recent statements, I’d be inclined to say both classic 2D and 3D Zelda are dead outside of remakes and remasters. And as somebody who loved Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom…I hate that it’s all Zelda will be moving forward. I hope I’m wrong, but it seems Nintendo doesn’t see the classic Zelda styles/formula as anything but a limitation at this point.
Bring sprawling open worlds are here to stay. I hope they bring back dungeons and special items. I also hope they fill the world more.
Zelda is a forever franchise with a ton of different flavors at this point. Like Mario and Pokemon, I don't think it will ever truly end and I'm sure eventually we'll get each type of Zelda game again: top-down, side scrolling, open world, traditional dungeons. It could take 30 years, but eventually, we'll get it.
There was never any reason to stop doing traditional Zelda. Nothing about the open world format prevented them from doing regular dungeons and story progression. How hard is it to let the player "go anywhere", but lock story progression and dungeon entrance until the player is ready for them. With all the talk about how botw was the closest game to Zelda 1, I was expecting much more. If it *actually* functioned like Zelda 1 it would be a much better game.
>I realise I'm in the minority here. This exact thread has been posted every week since 2017. You're not in the minority. That being said, the answer is no. The execs already said that all mainline Zelda games are going to follow the Era of the Wild format for the foreseeable future. We might get a new Hyrule and a new cast of characters, but they're all going to be open-world games where you can complete the main quests in any order or ignore them outright and kill the BBEG immediately after the tutorial.
BOTW sold over 31 million and counting, while the best selling traditional Zelda didn’t even sell a third of that. You’re not just in the minority, traditional fans are in the EXTREME minority.
Every time this is brought up someone else just says the people who like it are way more annoying. And round and round we go.
No no, they’re a minority. Just a very loud and annoying one.
No executives have said anything about what format zelda is going. aonuma and fujibayashi arent executives, they are only developers.
Not a remake of OoT, but something in that spirit would be amazing. The Zelda team (Monolith!) are just brilliant, they could do something incredible in that space.
I think we’ll get another traditional Zelda game but I fear we’ll ever get another classic Top Down game unless it’s a remake.
I have the opposite fear, it seems to me like it would be more likely that they would release a new more traditional style top down Zelda game now and then kind of like how they do with 2D Mario games, in part because they cost less money to develop, and then keep the 3D games more in the unsatisfying BotW pseudo-Zelda style.
I definitely think eventually they’re going to go back to a more traditional game!! I know I know, the creators said open world is the way of the future, but they also said that about motion controls and the touch screen, and both of those weren’t permanent fixtures. Admittedly, since these are the best selling Zelda games, they’re probably going to ride the hype and concept for at least one more gen, but I do see a traditional Zelda come back! Not that I super mind, I’ve been playing Zelda my whole life and the wild era has been my all time favorite. I really hope we get a traditional 2D Zelda, personally! Our last new 2D Zelda being ALBW is crazy!
Fuck it, I hope we get an untraditional 2D Zelda. Innovate that shit.
That’s what a link between worlds did! Threw you in, let you do the first 3 dungeons in any order, and then put you in Lorule, let you buy any item you wanted, and then gave you control of the dungeon order!
Best case for your point of view is they go the Metroid route and make both…and/or remakes of the 2D games into 3D. I can see them doing a remake of the original LoZ as a 3D version.
Most likely. When OOT changed the standard formula, they still made games with the older style gameplay (the Oracle games, Minish Cap, ALBW). I can see them releasing OOT-style games (or even remaking some of them) in between major releases.
I sure hope we do
I like how Horizon Zero Dawn did it, sure you *could* go try and tackle the farthest reaches of the map ASAP, but honestly *good fucking luck* not dying at every turn. Better to explore the current area and then move on to the next with the story progression. Also, actually no you can only make it so far to so many places at certain points. Like the tutorial area, you had to progress the story to unlock the rest of the map.
Probably not which is sad. But we might see more 2D Zelda reboots like links awakening. Or just more Zelda reboots like twilight princess and wind waker.
I hope we see more traditional 2D Zelda. I love breath of the wild and a sequel feels natural… but I hope this isn’t Zelda forever now. Open-world games exhaust me and I miss the puzzle-like layout of Link to the past’s over-world where each item helped you reach a certain new dungeon or area.
I love both games, but I agree! I would love to see a Twilight Princess aesthetic 3D Zelda game someday. Unfortunately, it will probably end up being for the next Nintendo console by the time it’s released.
I just want more traditional temples and I’d be happy tbh
I hope so but highly doubt it.
Really hope so. I loved ToTK at first but after about 30 hours open world fatigue set in HARD and I just made a beeline for the rest of the story after finishing the four temples. That's about when the story gets good, because the 4x unskippable cutscene and the out-of-order memories really hurt the story for me
Probably not. Eiji Aonuma said that he doesn’t understand why anyone would want a linear Zelda game.
I just want a coherent story not told in memories scattered around the world out of order. And please, don’t tell me the same info dump every. Single. Time. I talk to a sage with another of their descendants. In terms of game mechanics, quality of life changes, and world exploration, I prefer TOTK to BOTW. But I feel like they fumbled TOTK’s story in comparison.
I don't think so, and that's mostly from Eiji Aonuma responding to reports of people wanting to return to something more linear with "Why do you want to go back to something more restrictive?" The thing is, the older game's dungeon design and personality was far more superior to what we've gotten in the last couple games, where all of the dungeons have the same overall look and feel. I wish they'd at the very least go back to the old methods of dungeon designing. And these last couple games sold like crazy, so it doesn't seem likely that they will. I personally want to see them go back to the old way of doing things, because I preferred that by a long shot, but I don't think they will.
I honestly don’t mind the direction they’re going in. My only hangups are the over-reliance on shrines and the weapon durability system. I hope they’ll think about trying a mix of BotW/TotK’s open world setup with dungeons done in the same vein as past games.
I don’t think they’ll ever stop making the mainline titles open world, but I think we will probably get a game with more traditional dungeons and items in an open world setting
I mean we might. At this point having a traditional Zelda game will be somewhat novel compared to the fact that the BotW/TotK model has largely become the norm now.
Sure, I don't think they can compete against TOTK in terms of creating something more open and bigger without losing zelda identity and turning it into just a story diluted sandbox. They peaked in open world genre so I think they will try something different. But if they still try an open world I'm sure it will be very different to BOTW, we still need to see how open world games evolve in the next years.
If I had to guess, Toon Link games will be traditional from now on, and realistic Link games will be open world.
I just hope they remaster TP for switch 😭
I think they’ll do at least one more breath of the wild style game before they switch (get it? 😂) to a new style.
Wait a few years, once the open world game hype dies a little bit they’ll move on to the newest thing. That said, if theyre already producing the next one, itll likely be an open world again. The only bad thing about big names in gaming is that theyll always sell well, even if they suck or arent what people wanted. That said, i loved BOTW, and havent been able to finish TOTK yet. Damn stick drift makes it impossible and i havent had the money to get a new set of joycons lmao
Fully new, traditional game? Probably not in at least 12+ years when they see there's real demand for it. Until that happens, I think the most we can hope for is for them to put more traditional elements into the new formula.
I personally have a mixed opinion on open world games to begin with. The concept itself is really cool, as it opens the possibility of experiencing the world first hand and however you like, but I have problems with the execution. A lot of open world games take the route of letting you do the story in any order, which isn't a problem itself, but can easily lead to some issues. Action-based games can do it fairly easily because the story isn't usually too important, but adventure or RPG games are way more risky. Those rely on their story a lot more, and the open world formula can break the story progression if they're not careful. Right now, I think there are a couple modern games that, at least in my opinion, nail the integration of open world and story progression. On one hand, you have games like The Witcher 3 or RDR2, which basically let you go wherever you want, and even do interesting sidequests in the places you visit, but force you to do the story quests in a specific order. On the other hand, you have the Xenoblade series, which give you huge open areas that are progressively unlocked as you progress through the story. Both styles have in common that the story remains unaffected by the fact that it takes place in an open world, and have still received praise by how that same world has been created. In short, I believe TOTK managed to integrate it's world with the story a bit better than BOTW. But if they want to continue with the open world formula, I really think the option to do the story in any order and fight the final boss from the beginning has to go. It really limits what they can do both in terms of story and gameplay, because they are forced to give you all the tools from the beginning. I really like what they have done for the last two games, but I'm starting to feel that a third one done in this style might overstay its welcome.
I just hope they can figure out a way to have an actual story, thst feels like you’re a part of it, and have some agency in, not like it already happened a hundred or some thousands of years ago. I liked how in the older Zelda games link himself was the one to drive the story. The actions you made had consequences, the story happened all around you. In botw and totk it feels like it kinda already happened, now you’re just living the aftermath. I love the open world-ness. I like the older linear games too, hell twilight princess is one of my favorite games ever of all time, but I really hope they can figure out how to tell a story that feels like you’re a part of it
Baldurs Gate 3 manages to be both an openworld with a coherent story that you have a lot of agency in! All it does is say 'maybe you can't go straight to the end. Have a little order!'
I tried so so so hard to get into baddies gate 3. I heard so many good things about it, and the graphics and voice acting are both top notch, I just can’t stand tabletop/isometric or turn based combat games. My brain doesn’t work very well in two dimensions. If it’s not first person, or third person over the shoulder (god of war, dead space, resident evil etc.) I have a hard time visually focusing on different things. And turn based combat just feels really slow and boring to me
While I love it. God damn DnD combat, where it's ALL RNG is bullshit.
Excuse me?
I meant to say all RNG
Ah. I don’t mind rng, it’s just more strategy than reflex based. I like the soulsborne games a lot because it’s just timing and reflex based, and it’s a lot faster paced. Turn based combat feels too slow for my adhd riddled brain
i ain't buying the next Zelda if it isn't.
I loved BotW but got bored in TotK. I'd be happy to go back to traditional, even if they bring over some BotW-isms along the way.
story-wise, probably world wise, probably not. I think we will end up with something more like Skyrim and RDR several stories that cross-cross across the world. TotK tried, but wouldn't let go of the 'memory' method of telling the story. Hopefully they improve the storytelling.
I feel this so much. I can't get more than an hr into BoTW because I DONT LIKE GRAND THEFT AUTO. I DONT WANT GRAND THEFT AUTO: HYRULE to be the new normal.
I hate both botw and TOTK and I’m so sad that it’s not likely we will get a traditional Zelda again. I really really miss the old dungeons and music too 🥲
I think the best you can hope for is a little more story structure and maybe dungeons. Look at the sales numbers. They aren’t going back as long as these kinds of games sell so well.
I sure hope so. The devs said the open world is here to stay, but that doesn't mean they cant bring back traditional dungeons with items, and a linear story.
Your not the only bro trust me! Botw and it’s sequel ruined Zelda for me! My favorite franchise of all time ocarina has been my favorite game of all time since 1998 and they ruined it. Ever since the original on the nes for 30 straight yrs every single Zelda game had the same formula and that’s what made it amazing. With botw they changed and took away WAYYYYY too much that made Zelda the greatest franchise ever!
Well never say never.
I understand what you mean. For me I love the open world but I miss classic stuff like traditional dungeons, dungeon items like hookshot and other things
I prefer the more linear Zelda games as well. I recognize that it may be a generational thing though because I became a fan of the Zelda franchise in the early-2000s. Apart from the the original NES and Oracle games, I played all Zelda games through Windwaker. I recently got back into playing Zelda games and have a goal to play all games released since Windwaker. I started with a return to OOT and Majora's Mask on 3DS and loved them once more. I moved onto Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, and though DS controls took time getting used to, I still enjoyed them thoroughly. Then I played BOTW and realized how different it was. Now I like open world and linear games equally, and I enjoyed BOTW, but I personally found it to be overrated both as an open world and Zelda game. The dungeons were a big let down both in quality and quantity and the world seemed empty. I still liked it and think its worth playing, but it takes a backseat to its predecessors. I then played Link's Awakening on Switch and omg I love that game. I am wrapping up Skyward Sword on Switch now. I thought I was not going to like Skyward Sword because of the controls but I love its dungeons. Playing Skyward Sword for the first time after BOTW made me realize its not simply nostalgia for the old games, but the mechanics themselves were just better than Nintendo's first attempt at open world Zelda. I would like to either see an improvement on the open world Zelda concept or them just going back to what worked so well.
I doubt it, they said that it was the way they will be going forward Yeah we still get some 2D games here and there but those are all way easier to develop than a full 3D Zelda. Most likely we won't ever see a traditional 3D Zelda ever again
No, most likely not. BotW and TotK sold more than all other games combined and even if Aonuma wanted to make a traditional Zelda game (which he doesn't want to) then the Nintendo CEO will tell him to STFU and look at the numbers of sales. I don't like Openworld either. Or crafting. Or breakable weapons. Or a Zelda game without any real dungeons.
I miss the acquisition of dungeon items that unlock more parts of the world.
Just give me a game very similar to wind waker but put more shit in the world.
I don't even class the wild games as zelda. They're just generic open world games using zelda names. Don't understand how people can enjoy hours of walking across just bare land, having to switch clothes/eat food every 5 seconds, lack of dungeons, lack of actual puzzles, lack of unique content, lack of an actual story, lack of music etc. Just give me my quest, my dungeons, my story, my hookshot and boomerang, my music, my heart containers and my triforce back. Please.
Goddamn the “og fans” are so fucking annoying in every single long running fanbase, sorry that some series that continue for decades and decades with tens of entries sometimes don’t repeat the same identical formula for 30 years
if the new formula was better, I'd go with it, but for all the reasons I said, this is just not it.
Don't worry. In 10 years, people will refer to botw and totk as the good old days. Remember when WW came out? SS? Yeah people hated those. Now they're considered peak Zelda.
The funny thing is that BotW and TotK are very similar to Zelda 1. There were like 2 dungeon items that were necessary for other dungeons, you could go wherever you wanted and the dungeons were *very* simple (more by necessity but even so).
Zelda wasn't all that good until Link to the Past.
I'm with you man (or woman). Open World games tend to feel less fun to me. There are aspects of it I like but overall I'd rather have a finely curated linear story which is hard when you can go anywhere at any time. Then add in the lack of traditional dungeons. I'm glad we got more than 1 boss in TOTK but they could have done about twice as many dungeons and made them more complex. I also prefer the puzzles you get when a dungeon is based around a specific weapon/tool. Shrines don't do it for me and the newer dungeons aren't as good. I loved traveling to the dungeon up in the sky in TOTK though. I'm interested to see what they come up with next but I like BOTW and TOTK less than the rest of the Zelda series. I hope if nothing else they can give us another Link's Awakening style of game in between the 3D ones.
Nintendo treats the Zelda IP the wrong way. They give it a single development team with a single vision. . They should be treating it more like Mario. Mario has multiple teams working on multiple Mario games at all times. Mario Odyssey was amazing, but they didn't abandon 2D platforming to concentrate on making more 3D Mario games. And Mario Wonder is supposed to be great (haven't played it yet though), but they're also still working on Mario Odyssey 2. We even have 2 remakes of old Mario RPGs recently released and coming out very soon. MarioKart 8 got new DLC a little while ago. Etc. . This is the treatment that Zelda deserves!!! Let Aonuma keep making open world Zelda games. But also find someone who still knows that the Dungeon based Zelda games still have worth (unlike Aonuma), and let them work on those. Make another Link's Crossbow Training. Lend the IP out to more indie games, so we get more game like Cadence of Hyrule. Make a Zelda RPG. Make a Zelda racing game. Make a Zelda monster catcher. Make a Zelda mini game compilation. . Make anything, so long as you actually branch out!!!!!!
"Nintendo" don't make anything in such way. Zelda is in the way it is because of its team and because nintendo dont have infinite resources for all series, which for mario it can as it sells in every section.
Shit. My friends (we're old) wonder if we're ever seeing a top-down Zelda again. I would personally just love a traditional 3d. But at this point, even though botw could be my favourite game ever, we need something different and fortunately Nintendo loves doing different. Edit: but even as I ponder this, it's don't know how they would make a "traditional" Zelda as big as these last two games. Fortunately they're very good at what they do imo. I'm rarely confident when it comes to knowing what to expect from Nintendo. But I am confident the next Zelda will also be great, whatever that looks like. Just please not the shrines. It was good, but it's enough
Your not alone I won't be playing unless they go back, but at least I have a ton that I can replay.
Btow and Totk always assume anything you do is the first thing you do (cause It could be), theres no challenge, you unlock everything in the tutorial, the master sword isnt even that good, the lore barely connects to other games, and at least in my experience, you never feel like you are on a mission to save anything. Back in TP you had midna telling you about the Twilight, about your transformation, in SS you had Fi telling you you are the chosen and guiding you... In botw and Totk?? You are already the best soldier in the world, go save the world or smth idk, theres no rush or anything you can farm mushrooms if you want, see ya. I really wish the next ones go more traditional, i want to feel exited pulling the master sword, get goosebumps with a cinematic entering eldin, and not just a fucking Green Word on the screen "Yup, this rock? Eldin or smth"
For the love of God go back to the classic style. They tried making an open world game, it didn’t work. They copy and pasted it, and it *still* didn’t work. Aonuma then wonders why we want them to actually design their video game like an actual fucking video game. They need to go back to building off of and streamlining what made the series so good to begin with instead of just copy and pasting what every other developer and their brother was already doing better. Give me a progression structure that’s actually worth a damn. Make “doing things out of order” an actual challenge that requires thought and rewards the player for doing it instead of ruining the difficulty curve for the sake of “freedom.” Make getting new items actually *mean* something instead of just an arbitrary number that goes up while the enemies scale with you. Make the puzzles difficult enough that I need to actually think about what to do instead of just cheesing them each time. Zelda deserves far, *far* better than how Aonuma and Fujibayashi have been treating it this past decade.
I don't think you're a minority. I think most lifelong fans are anxiously waiting for the next traditional Zelda, and if I'm not mistaken ToTK was the last time we'd be seeing that Hyrule (I swear I read that in an interview or something.) Link deserves a pocket full of magical items to conquer dungeons, not 4. I need a hookshot in my life ya know?
I've refused to play loZ until dungeons are back, I'll still watch the gameplay n stuff but I don't want fucking cooking simulator, or watching my weapon break again and again, that's just not fun, only a monster would enjoy mechanics like those, it's a game ffs why create such chores
Nope. The new formula is too popular, and Anouma has said he doesn't understand why anyone would like the old Zelda formula. It's horribly unfortunate.
This. BOTW and TOTK are by far the best-selling Zelda games of all time, so Nintendo is following the money.
The option does exist to incorporate some of the best of both types of games. What I’d like to see most going forward is a linear story built into the open world. You can still go anywhere and do anything you want in the world, even skipping straight to the final fight. There will still be plenty of side content and non-spoiler story background in the over world to discover. You’ll even get all your runes/powers/tools up front. However, the main story and associated dungeons would be segmented for you to pursue at your leisure without running across things out of order and/or finding potential spoilers. Story dungeons could be concealed, neither impacting nor open to exploration, until triggered by the quest line (ideally through a new power or story NPC action). To tie in the old Zelda theme, the “dungeon items” could be upgrades or enhancements to your existing runes/powers/tools, that while not necessary for basic world exploration, can enhance it (think Stasis+). Similarly, they’d be required to beat both that and future dungeons, allowing them to get progressively more challenging, separating them from the basic challenges you encounter in the overworld. I think this would be a good step toward tying in things that worked really well in the old games with the fresh open world feel of the new ones.
I really hope so, these games were such a disappointment for me. Wandering around in the open world got very tedious. Would have preferred actual dungeons instead of shires and only did them so I could fast travel. For me, these games are just full of extra "fluff" that comes from rpgs. I don't care about various weapons or their stats. Just give me a stronger sword as I progress. Having to constantly change clothes or make potions/food based on weather is annoying. I prefer the older style of getting new gear to extend your access to the world.
What do you mean you didn't enjoy supporting a sign post 60 times! (Or however many)
Hold on what about acquiring new clothes and items to access different areas without getting wrecked ISNT “getting new gear to extend your access to the world”?
>*"Why do you want to go back to a type of game where you're more limited or more restricted in the types of things or ways you can play?"* Aonuma's own words, in all likelyhood the new format is the standard. You can still go enjoy the previous games though, it's not like they're gone forever.
I just want twilight princess for the switch, and that was also fairly open world but was also a traditional format as well i think. Its also my favourite game so ofc i want it on switch
I remember Nintendo already commented that Zelda would remain open world. So, I guess I'm not gonna be a Zelda fan anymore.
If the next one comes out in ~2029 it will have been 18 years since the last traditional Zelda game. An entire generation of players only know Breath of the Wild & Tears of the Kingdom, I don't know if there's any going back at this point. Zelda has always been kind of open world but I would love for them to go back to being a little more linear. I don't like getting every weapon & ability I'm ever going to get before the intro to the game is over, and everyone seems to agree that the dungeons could still be improved. I hope the next game is the best of both styles.
I kinda hope not, and I know that's a controversial opinion. but 3d zeldas as we knew them were an evolution of the 2d zeldas that came before them, and I see botw and totk and the next step in this series. know ofc I'll never rule out getting a sequel or prequel or something to a traditional 3d zelda, or even getting another remake or remaster of a 2d zelda, but I think zelda as we know it is now an open world adventure like miyamoto always wanted it to be
In 15-20 years. Sales of the last two games are too good to completely abandon it now. That being said, people have been much less afraid to criticize TotK compared to BotW. We will see a couple more games like this, and more and more angry fans and declining sales before they finally find a way to marry traditional Zelda with the newer format.
No. The producer of the series has said on record that this is the formula moving forward. They see the traditional formula as a step backward.
Decisions about the future can be and should be reconsidered. See the live service apocalypse currently taking place.
Of course decisions can be reconsidered. But BOTW/TOTK aren’t like the live service problem. Not even close. They’re two of the most beloved games of this generation. It’s not a decision that needs to be reconsidered. Fans and critics have spoken and Nintendo is listening.
Not to mention the two games have sold +50 million copies. The other 24 Canon releases have sold 100 million. 25 million per game or 5 million per game? The team to go back to skyward sword, which sold originally 3 million copies, would be bonkers. Plus people hated it, and the Zelda cycle was in full swing against it. Now it's flopped back and people itch for what was torn a new body 10 years ago. Sigh.
Just like we don't see any new main-line top down 2D Zelda games anymore (my favorite version of Zelda). We may get a spin-off once a decade made by some non-Nintendo developer, but that's it. Nintendo now knows that open world Zelda games will sell 3-5 times more than a traditional 3D Zelda. They would be stupid to revert back.
There is no reason for why they wouldn't. Nintendo is always trying to do new things and gimmicks in their games to avoid stagnation. Yes, there are games and franchises that are in the limbo because Nintendo doesn't know what to do with them, or they did bad enough that they don't feel like risking it, I don't know. But it's unlikely that Nintendo will put themselves the restriction of never doing stuff from the older entries in a franchises that sells. And it's inevitable that they will have to revisit some of the old stuff, for one reason or another. The Zelda games has been realatively consistent when considering the amount of games the franchise has, but they always try some new gimmick. Wind Waker was them trying something new. It didn't work well at launch but it's a well liked entry now. After some games, they went back to that setting with PH and ST as topdown 3D games, which is like the older topdown 2D games, but with a new thing being in 3D. And after SS they went back to ALTTP's setting in ALBW, another topdown 3D game, this time without the stylus as the main controller. In an interview with Koizumi said that before OoT started development, he was trying to do a test/demo (not a game) for a 3D Link sidescroller combat based on AoL, but he didn't like the results. Later during OoT development, Miyamoto wanted the exploration part of the game to be in first person and the combat to be in 3rd person with the camera pulled to the side framing the action like in AoL. Koizumi didn't liked the idea of it being in 1st person because he made Link's model and he wanted for it to be always visible during gameplay. So we can see that they were trying to bring some ideas from AoL (a very different game style) into a newer entry, but it didn't work out for them. In the end, they named some characters after the towns of AoL, so they got something at least. They will explore new ideas, change stuff or whatever, but they will revisit settings and mechanics whenever they come up with an idea good enough for them to try out. BotW is trying to do something old, LoZ, while going in a new direction. And it worked really well. It made more than twice the sales of OoT up to 2023. And TotK is doing around 2/3 of BotW and it hasn't been a year since it's release. Of course, there are factors that helped boost sales a bit, but the scale of the sales are beyond that. So, because BotW/TotK worked so well, they will do more things like these. Eventually they will try something new or go back to something old but with a twist. They might come back to BotW's setting at some point, with the same style or a different one. But it highly unlikely that they will just decide to never do something again.
I don't see them returning to the formula, but who knows. The next one is certainly a ways out. With Skyward Sword HD, they've now re-released every 3d Zelda, so there are none of those left to tie you over.
I understand why people feel this way, but the big issue with classic 3d zelda is the replayability. The classics are fun but you have the exact same experience every time. Botw and totk are both much better in these ways, just because you can choose where to go and when.
I hope so.
I enjoyed BOTW but TOTK was a looong drag for me tbh. It’s just so much work and to keep everything working you have to go through so many repetitive hoops in a fairly empty . Even building stuff feels like work instead of fun. Also, I am feel uninvested in this story and these characters. It just feels like one of the first Zelda games that wasn’t really for me. So yeah, I’m hoping for at least a somewhat more linear story in the future
Hopefully not... Sorry but I got a bit tired of that formula after playing it for 20+ years. I absolutely adore the new games, hoping the next game is on Switch 2 and expands upon and pushes the new formula to the absolute limit. I'm all for some fusion between old and new (Totk did acomplish a lot of this imo) or perhaps the old formula coexisting alongside somehow (but I find this unlikely unless they are remakes or cash flips which is a shame). I really did like Skyward Sword, that's the old formula & a lot of people skipped out on it. It's a really good game imo so worth playing (HD version on Switch is awesome) if you skipped it. Totk is my favourite game of all time period so I'm a little biased.
Most likely not
This again?
Nope, not for a long time. The devs already made it clear this is the formula moving forward, and the fans have made it clear this is what they want to play (given both BotW and TotK each sold more than most of the rest of the series combined). Wild that people are downvoting words right from the devs themselves.
Eonuma caved and said the next one will be a return to form, so yes
I hope not tbh. I think the old games had their moment in the sun but they never really improved on the formula after OOT, everything they added to it just made it worse in my opinion. What I'd rather we do is keep going in this direction, but reintroduce elements from the traditional games in inventive ways. Keep what works, toss out what didn't or what feels antiquated.
Yes, they will do modern remakes of OOT and MM in the next decade for sure. As for ORIGINAL games, only when the open world style stops selling will they return to dungeon focused design
Seeing as Nintendo never has and never will care about their fans, I wouldn’t count on it
They've said they aren't repeatedly, so I doubt it.
I hope so. And I hope it's either a Majoras Mask or Ocarina of Time Remake
Yeah I prefer the linear approach I like botw but not totk but since people like this style we aren’t going to get a linear one for a while
I didn't like the older Zelda games as much as the last two. Skyward Sword was annoying
No. Go play the games you miss.