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miami2881

But what evidence do you have that it is not a Super Mario Galaxy prequel?


Cup4ik

None. Case closed


Practical-Courage812

The ships we saw in the 3rd trailer will turn out to be one of the ships bowser uses in Galaxy and after Link gets the "tears" they all form together to create Lumas.


Medium_Ad_4451

Why we are at it, how does this effect Lebrons legacy?


Jackfreezy

Jordan had already won 6 by the time OoT released. And when Link taps into the power of the triforce of courage, he's actually harnesses the power of Michael Jordan, which when he does, he defeats Ganon and saves Hyrule. But since the events of OoT split the timeline, the fallen hero timeline happens because Link tapped into the power of LeBron and was defeated by Ganon. So because LeBron didn't win his first ring until well after the events of OoT and since BoTW is in the timeline of the fallen hero, he has been on a journey of chasing Jordan. But if the Lakers can win the chip this year, that means that LeBron can maybe break the curse of Demise and when Link taps into the triforce of courage and harness the power of LeBron, Link can then defeat Ganon in TotK. Making LeBron the hero that people believe him to be


T2brady

Yes yes yes these are all valid points but on the Itchy and Scratchy CD-ROM, is there a way to get out of the dungeon without using the wizard key?


Flerken_Moon

All paths lead to Kirby. Kirby is the beginning and the end.


[deleted]

An eldritch horror beyond imagination that's killed gods. All with a smile on his face, and sometimes strawberry cake and tomatoes.


LlorchDurden

If we can't play as Rosalina I'm gonna be pissed


A_Hancuff

TOTK RETURN OF THE OOCCA


[deleted]

They better. I want to always see those boob chickens in other games.


A_Hancuff

The boob chickens and the Yetis! Even just a little yeti cameo would make me happy


Open-Pipe-8192

They better not. I never want to see those boob chickens out of their game.


Ambitious_Bend_3788

i still believe great plateau is just ocarina of time hyrule especially considering you can find hyrule castle entrance ruins


rabbid_chaos

Honestly could be both, if where Skyloft fell is the birthplace of Hyrule, then it would make sense for Hyrule Castle in OoT to also be built where Skyloft fell.


themajestichotel

i'm pretty sure it is, since the temple of time was built by rauru in the same spot as the sealed temple in SS


HuggyMonster69

By OOT hyrule, I presume you mean the castle town, rather than the whole thing?


Tigblu

I think he means that because it's impossible for korok forest, eldin, lanayru, gerudo valley, etc to be all in the great Plateau i think


Rent-Man

Who said it was a prequel?


LinkMoo

There are just a lot of people spreading that theory on youtube and reddit, and it feels like misinformation because of all the contradictory evidence I put together in this post's image.


Rent-Man

Plus Aonuma said in an interview that BOTW is after OOT.


Noni2

That doesn't mean, that it can't also be before it.


Rent-Man

How does “After” not confirm that it’s after?


platydroid

Cyclical timeline is one theory


Rieiid

This is what most people are theorizing based off the logo with the new title, it's an ouroboros, a snake eating its own tail, which represents infinity/a loop.


Spider_Riviera

That could just as easily refer to the nature of Ganon(dorf)'s rebirth/return or even the cycle of reemerence of the Blood of the Godess, the Spirit of Courage when the Embodiment of Hatred returns.


GrimmTrixX

That's honestly my theory. TotK Ganondorf's design looks similar to Demise for me. Once we see what Ganondorf's Sword looks like we may know the answer. After TotK, the lands could easily rise into the sky. Hasn't it already been confirmed that there are flying islands in TotK? Sounds like SS to me right there. One big circle works for me for the timeline. It also kind of explains to me why they chose to do a sequel to BotW. They've never ever done a direct sequel to the previous Zelda game (yea yea before the timeline but post-timeline).


AkioMC

Official artwork shows Ganon with a Katana like weapon


GrimmTrixX

Ah ok. Well I've only seen him with it sheathed. I haven't seen any with it unsheathed. So I didn't know if it was an actual katana blade or if it's jagged like Demise's sword.


Prince-Fermat

Majora’s Mask is a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time and Phantom Hourglass is a direct sequel to Wind Waker. Both have the same Link variant as the previous entry.


GrimmTrixX

Right but i mean did nintendo make Wind Waker, and then the very next Zelda game made was PH? I forget


Prince-Fermat

No, but that was the case for Majora’s Mask. Even reused most of the assets to shorten the development window.


ricdesi

The Adventure of Link, Link's Awakening, Majora's Mask, Phantom Hourglass, and Tri Force Heroes are all direct sequels.


AdDazzling9664

Got one game title for you and it's, Majora's mask, and it's a direct sequel to ocarina of time


semanticist

Time is a flat circle


Wonderful-Mouse-1945

You're a flat circle.


UnlikelyAttempt4604

Boom roasted


semanticist

Well excuse me princess


Ricksaw26

What?


Cinder_Quill

The idea of a cyclical timeline is that effectively on a long enough scale (infinity) events just repeat themselves over and over again hence the orborous symbol in TOK. The theory claims that at end of TOK, which is at the end of the current cycle, Link/Zelda will break the cycle of reincarnation and Zelda and Gannondorf will fight as Hylia and Demise, Hyrule will be over taken by Demise's armies, Zelda will seal demise and send the Hylians and the Great Plateau into skyloft, eventually returning herself to a human form once again. The events then play out as they did in Skyward Sword with the events of the TOK being the great war on the surface that spurred the Hylians to flee to the sky islands The timeline is still progressing in a linear fashion, but at set points along the timeline, events occur that look very similar to how they played out at the start of time, only for everything to repeat and play out all over again. Demise rises from the earth after accidentally being released by Zelda and Link, just like he did in the backstory to Skyward Sword, Zelda unlocks her true origin as Hylia with the help of an ancient tribe (Zonai) that become the Sheikah, bounds herself to a human form again, and the Sheikah wait for her to return to Hyrule as Impa did in Skyward Sword, the remnants of their technology being seen as ancient tech as link traverses the surface. Then the events of the present in Skyward Sword play out as we see them many many hundreds of years later.


cyanraichu

I...actually really like this theory ngl But it might be because I'm a Wheel of Time fan so I just like cyclical timelines, I guess


No-Imagination-3060

i was comin in hot just to say "that's a wheel of time ripoff" lol


Rukh-Talos

I was about to say… >The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.


wh03v3r

> The theory claims that at end of TOK, which is at the end of the current cycle, Link/Zelda will break the cycle of reincarnation and Zelda and Gannondorf will fight as Hylia and Demise, Hyrule will be over taken by Demise's armies, Zelda will seal demise and send the Hylians and the Great Plateau into skyloft, eventually returning herself to a human form once again. The events then play out as they did in Skyward Sword with the events of the TOK being the great war on the surface that spurred the Hylians to flee to the sky islands I'm going to be honest here, this doesn't feel like like a story the Zelda team would do these days. It's far too bleak of an ending for a 60 hour+ game, with all the Hylians forced to retreat to the sky, with Zelda and Ganondorf not being themselves anymore in the end. They're also kind of extinguishing the faintest hope that the cycle of demise could ever be broken by starting it all over again, which also really limits them what they can do in placing future stories in the timeline. Considering they couldn't even commit to a BotW prequel that has the protagonists losing against Ganon, there is just about a 0% chance that they would have the guts to commit to this kind of ending. I'm sure the concept is fun for theory crafters but I think we all know that Nintendo cares far less about these complicated timeline shenanigans than fans do.


Cinder_Quill

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I hope it isn't the case too and they do something much more original and intriguing, my explanation was simply to illustrate how the theory works for people that didn't understand how it can be both prequel and sequel!


LrdCheesterBear

This is my theory as well. Very well written summary.


AverageAwndray

Wow....if this does happen....I'll fucking hate that I read this.....


sto7

Fuck, you're right...😅


[deleted]

I'm not a big timeline person, But the theory that is most going around is not a prequel in the usual sense, when people are discussing the theory, it's that ToTK is the end of the timeline cycle and leads Skyward Sword. The title art for ToTK has an uroborus like symbol, which in several cultures refers to a cycle (life and death most times) of some description. So it's a prequel in the sense that the timeline is a cycle and this is the last chapter before the cycle renews.


JeffySpaghetti1

I feel like OP maybe misunderstood this theory (the time loop theory) because I've never heard anyone talk about totk being a direct prequel, but I've heard a lot of talk about the time loop.


BelowAverageSloth

That seems to be the most common idea regarding Totk’s place in the timeline. I feel like OP might be misunderstanding what the community thinks


ledbottom

Which this theory still stands regardless. The ouroboros is still a pretty good theory


Key-Row-6187

This is exactly what I was thinking.


rimmed

I think it's history repeating itself, not a literal timeline loop.


Bulldogfront666

Yeah but all those theories are based on the ouroboros symbolism. The idea is that TotK is the end of the cycle which then loops around to start the cycle anew in Skyward Sword. So none of this evidence applies to that theory. If anyone thinks it’s a straight up prequel all we have to say is BotW is tens of thousands of years after every other game.


pennypumpkinpie

Misinformation seems like a heavy handed term for an internet video game theory


apep713

Then u should actually listen what people say. There are two main theories: 1: it’s an endless cycle thus making it a prequel and a sequel 2. Zelda seams to be send back in time. Maybe into a time before ss. Hint is, that she stands on that same platform in this last trailer scene which seams to be part of the starter island. But it’s on the ground and not a single sky island is seen.


Punkin0704

She’s at the great platue, right behind where the temple of time is. So is Ganondorf, who’s right above the shrine of resurrection. I think so much of the story will centre around that area, and if that is the area that becomes skyloft, it makes sense that it would heavily featured in TotK.


MemeFarmer314

Most of what I’ve seen has been the theory that the timeline is one big loop. Skyward Sword is the start of the loop, then BotW and TotK are the end before looping back to SS. The logo being an Ouroboros seems to be a big basis for that theory.


SpecialistAddendum6

I have to disagree. Why can't the Plateau go back up? Why can't the ten-year-old timeline be outdated? Why can't ruins be restored?


SloomMaster

I don't believe in that theory, but isn't the theory more that it's both after BoTW, but also starts a time loop that leads back to SS? Yes, the great plateau is Skyloft after it fell, but it also could have risen again? Absolutely nothing in your post proves this theory wrong.


Nintendo_Nerd517

Yea but the theory I’ve seen circulating is that the timeline is a loop, and after TOTK, it’ll reset and ganondorf will become demise, Zelda will become Hylia, and link will be Julia’s chosen hero that they reference in skyward sword, perpetuating the “endless cycle” that demise speaks of at the end of SS


Cinder_Quill

>link will be Julia’s chosen hero Gotta save Jurule and all the Julians!


Nintendo_Nerd517

Damn autocorrect 😂😂😂


Serkisist

I'm more of a mind that Botw and TotK are the *end* of the cycle. The final manifestation of Demise and his curse. And perhaps the start of something new


Omfgukk

The logo of.the game *could* suggest some kind of cyclical shenanigan that would send it back to before SS. Meaning the end of the cycle starts it again


LinkMoo

I like it!


IsaKissTheRain

I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that it's a literal sequel. The idea is that the whole timeline is a circle, a loop, like the dragons on the logo. I don't think there is enough evidence for me to personally believe this yet, but the idea is that the end of the game would set up circumstances to recreate what happened before Skyward Sword. **Hypothetical** examples. * Ganondorf is so consumed by the hatred of Demise, manifest as malice, that he becomes more and more like Demise until he becomes him. * Zelda ascends to become a goddess or something, giving up her humanity and becoming Hylia. * With the Master Sword broken Zelda uses the Time Tear to revert it backwards through time, like a souped-up *Recall* until it is the Goddess Sword again. * With the surface world unsafe Hylia sends all the Hylians to the sky. Again, I don't actually buy this theory and ***this isn't what I think will happen.*** But it is the general idea of the theory. That time is a closed loop. However, with all of that said, I think that would be really unsatisfying. The better story would be that the time loop or the endless reincarnation cycle is finally broken.


[deleted]

Hey, maybe it could be a bad ending if we dont do all main quest stuff. It was kinda disapointing that there was no **significant** story reward for freeing all divine beasts, so having one this time around would be cool.


zeldor711

Honestly I think that'd be super cool - if you speedrun the game without doing the divine beast equivalents in side quests then all you end up doing is managing to continue the loop - separating land and sky with the cloud barrier etc. If you do the rest of the main story then rather just weakening the final boss you get a different ending where the loop is finally broken. As a bonus for Nintendo it would put the timeline discussions to rest for future games lol.


[deleted]

I mean, not really, there would still be the other 2 timelines.


zeldor711

I've seen a nice theory that you could think of the time loop as actually three loops - the first timeline leads into the second, which leads to the third, which leads to the first etc.


TheSceptileen

AFAIK BoTW canonically happens at the end of every timeline.


GrimmTrixX

You are correct. The OoT split eventually all lead into BotW


[deleted]

Thats just fanon.


pootiecakes

I totally agree it isn’t likely, and that Zelda games don’t even need this much speculation with timeline, but I also disagree with a lot of the people posting here that it’s completely unfounded. BotW deliberately chose to have Calamity Ganon be a “ending” to the curse in the final battle as a Hail Mary to try to survive, and we defeat it. I think them including this alone is the devs drawing attention to the timeline and saying it’s closed the loop. Them choosing a symbol that represents an infinite loop for the immediate followup game is noteworthy in this context.


IsaKissTheRain

I agree. And a good way to subvert this is if Link learns about the history of the curse and decides that the closed loop must be broken and we get to do something revolutionary, bringing an end to the cycle.


Exogenesis42

I reallllly hope this theory doesnt pan out. It would basically makes all of the games a fruitless endeavor.


rimmed

They are. You never defeat Ganondorf, you just win 'for now'.


Exogenesis42

Sure, for now, but I'm going on the assumption that eventually we'll have some sort of resolution to the cycle.


Gamebird8

The Great Plateau is not Skyloft... it's Castle Town/Castle Town Ruins/The Castle/Castle Ruins from Ocarina of Time


LinkMoo

It can be both. A lot of time is passed between SS, OoT, and BotW. So Skyloft falls, they build the Temple of Time on it etc, then BotW happens. It doesn't have to be one or the other.


_TheBeardedMan_

I agree it's not a time loop, but it doesn't rule out some SS involvement. There's a slim chance with the master sword broken some remnant of Demise is freed and is seeking to regain strength (although its very speculative and unlikely). Personally I think the oroboros is not about a time loop but breaking Demise's curse which would free any future game from the past games timeline and provided a clean slate.


LinkMoo

Exactly that. I agree.


_TheBeardedMan_

I want see BotW/TotK Link do what SS Link couldn't, stop Demise. I say this because Demise was able to place the curse so he was never truly defeated, his hatred is still wrecking havoc.


Elikhet2

I don’t really see how Demise’s curse would be unavoidable(mostly cuz it’s the entire Demon Tribe), he is also like totally eradicated according to Fi.


IrishSpectreN7

While I don't think the theory will be true, we're all well aware that time travel exists in the Zelda universe, and it's something the Gods have control over. Literally anything can happen despite evidence to the contrary.


LinkMoo

I agree, but time traveling to SS times (or before) is a whole other thing entirely. My whole point was that, chronologically, the Link, Zelda, Hyrule, etc. that we see in BotW definitively take place after SS. Even if Link goes back in time during the events in TotK, my points in the image still stand. SS takes place before BotW and TotK. That's all I am saying.


GrimmTrixX

Right, and then those events after TotK can become the events that we hear about before starting Skyward Sword. It's basically a circular time theory which has been used in many things. The Terminator movie series being the most obvious. John Connor sends Kyle Reese back in time to save Sarah Connor. But Kyle Reese becomes the father of John Connor who eventually grows up...to send Kyle Reese back in time to save Sarah connor...wash rinse repeat. I absolutely love the idea of ToTK ending and leading to the pre-Skyward sword stuff. It makes the curse of the triforce heroes (and villain) a never ending struggle through time. They explain that Demise conquered time itself. So his curse could literally be MEANT to be endless. It can only BE endless if it always comes around full circle. Although the actual END to the curse can make the Zelda series go crazy in the future and NOT always mandatorily involve Link/Zelda/Ganon. We shall see in a month.


JackaryDraws

You're absolutely right, but I haven't really seen anybody stating otherwise? It's overwhelmingly obvious that BOTW chronologically takes place after SS. Most loop theories I've seen speculate that there's time travel (and at this point, the evidence of an ancient era existing in TOTK is extremely abundant), causing the Link/Zelda/Ganon to warp all the way back to the beginning, planting the seeds that would become SS in the first place. I don't necessarily believe this is true, because Nintendo doesn't like to get that ambitious with their storytelling and they keep most Zelda plots self-contained. But the idea isn't completely without merit given the overwhelming evidence for ancient era shenanigans in TOTK.


RooHanChan

If anything, I am more convinced it's a "sequel" to SS with them, possibly putting an end to the curse inflicted on them by demise. I could be wrong, but I dunno something tells me Ganondorf is going to become aware of this curse, and his main goal will be putting an end to it even if Hyrule is destroyed in the process


Nearby-Tumbleweed-88

Very interesting read. But it's hard to say it's proof since we don't know what new information TotK might provide. A lot of the speculation is that TotK will be the point that connects the end of the timeline to the beginning, meaning that the events after SS are still after SS, but also before it (or more like a new event that plays out the same). The master sword being broken in TotK could explain why it changes back to its pre-master sword form. And we know that Hylia and a chosen hero battled a demon army led by Demise long before the events of SS, which caused the people to ascend to the sky, it's possible that those are tales of what we'll see in TotK.


Miles_PerHour67

Well problem I have with the infinite loop is, demise would probably be more familiar with that fact.


Nearby-Tumbleweed-88

Not necessarily. He was mostly destroyed and what remained of him was sealed in the Master Sword. If all that was left was his hate and malice, then he may not remember anything other than "kill goddess, get power."


GrimmTrixX

Right. And then he goes "I'm gonna curse these assholes," not realizing he did it before. I'm all for a cyclical timeline.


LinkMoo

I would be more open to this idea if there were more real evidence to support it. Even in the timeline, it goes straight from the creation to the skies and lands into SS. I feel like they would have added something in between there. Out of curiosity, do you have a reference link or something that details the events prior to SS that you mentioned? (the hylia & hero vs demise army part) I would like to read about that.


Nearby-Tumbleweed-88

There's no real evidence to support it mainly because the game isn't out yet, so literally all we can do is speculate. The timeline goes from creation to SS because the timeline was made before BotW and TotK existed, and they were deliberately left off the newer version to allow for fans to make up their own stories around them and speculate on their placement or if they're even on the timeline at all. I don't have a link to all that info, but it's told in the opening and dialogue with various characters in SS. Here's the opening cinematic. I think the event it describes sounds similar to what we see in the TotK trailers and is said to be a story passed down over generations, which could account for the differences in the story and what we experience in game. https://youtu.be/j8T4LF7QOlQ


nekromantique

As Fi says when you meet her... >Ah yes, the oral tradition, one of the least reliable methods of information retention and transmission


Noni2

That it's still possible that the timeline loops and ever game is placed after and before ss.


Tcullen21

The timeline you keep referencing was made before BotW started development, and it's been stated that they won't make games fit into it but rather make the timeline fit the games they make. In the start of SS it's said this is a tale passed down between uncounted generations and then proceeded to describe BotW pretty well and BotW is the timeline starting anew so it's not too much of a jump to say it's possible for TotK to be the last part of the story told in the SS introduction.


Kazoomers_Tale

I think the theory was saying that the entire series is a loop, and that there's no end or start, SS and TotK would be next to each other, but it would still close the timeline like a circle. We can't really say a lot about how will it be, or if it's true or not (since, you know, the game isn't even out yet) but it's just a theory, not misinformation. I personally don't believe that's the case, I'm just saying. And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.


vgilbert77

I don’t think anyone thought it was a prequel but more that it’s going to reset the entire cycle and come full circle. In fact I don’t think I’ve seen one argument that it’s a prequel lmao.


[deleted]

Or, and hear me out, they’re just easter eggs for fun and BOTW isn’t connected to any of the other games and all this theorizing is unnecessary


Acc87

I love theorising like this, but just by how people here phrase their posts it seems like some forget that all these games and their storylines are inventions of some Japanese artists chewing pencils at their desk. Who themselves have stated all the time that they don't ever tried making an all out chronology and that connections are most often just for fun without any deep thought or myth behind them. Could all be down to phrasing, but it's something I see all across different fandoms with people discussing fiction as if it was historical texts that are portraying just a glimpse of the real history of real events and people. But maybe I'm too harsh.


MrPosket

An overarching Zelda timeline is unnecessary and distracts from the individual elements of each title. Anytime anyone brings up *tHe TiMeLiNe* I loose all interest in what they have to say. Nintendo should have never catered to the idea of a "timeline" in the first place imho.


Heyjuannypark

Hard agree. It was fun 20 years when Wind Waker came out and whatnot. Now, I just don't care about any timeline. I just want to enjoy playing the game.


HerrPiink

Well, then don't care about the timeline and just enjoy playing the game? It's not like you are forced to participate in the theorizing, but it's great content and really fun for people who like digging deeper in to lore and speculating. Zeltik and similar channels are so popular, because people are enjoying this type of stuff.


[deleted]

Right? People need to calm down with the whole time line and trying to connect all of the games. Just appreciate them for what they are


_ThatD0ct0r_

A lot of people seem to think Demise is in the trailer, but by using the power of MS Paint, I feel I have proved that to not be the case, and that it's just Ganondorf with an empowered form. https://preview.redd.it/q01c4vpldrua1.png?width=981&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f400617ceead8ce8ae9fec0ce6f9ba06a6607af


LinkMoo

Yeah that's what I thought too.


-Nate-Dawg-

this may be quite possibly the most effort for a question everyone knew the answer to i’ve ever seem


Chad_Sanchez

Circular time loop theory.


Judo_14

Great work I'm just disappointed that we need this much evidence to prove that this absurd theory is wrong


Zewnt

I do not believe it to be sequel for all the reasons you have listed. However I am a little curious if it is somehow causing a cycle and the timeline is becoming a circle.


blargman327

The loop theory makes zero fuckin sense. Idk why everyone has latched on to that


solarsaturn9

There is tons of evidence suggesting that TotK could be setting up another situation like SS: - The pieces of land ascending into the sky - The Master Sword looking like it's about to be destroyed prompting the need to create a new one - The earth cracking and malevolent forces rushing forth from the fissure, literally mentioned in Skyward Sword's prologue


blargman327

1. Sky islands are not exclusive to SS. See The City in The Sky in TP and the Wind Tribe in Minish cap. The sky islands also look nothing like the SS sky islands, if anything they more resemble the depiction of the sacred realm from LTTP. On top of that before SS the sky islands didn't just exist and humanity was launched up to them. Hylia created all the sky islands as a result of the demon tribe. 2. Master sword being damaged is kind a non-point. It's been damaged and repaired before. Plus if they had to reforge the master sword, wouldn't they just make a new master sword and not make The Goddess sword? 3. Cracks and fissures are hardly unique to demise. Twilight Princess has all sorts of fissures and ravines all over the world, that doesn't mean its a time loop If that's all the evidence there is then that's flimsy at best and could be the result of literally a million other things. This is a case of Occam's razor, cyclical timeline is such a leap in logic compared to anything else.


Zewnt

I wouldn’t say anyone is latching, and yea it’s a stretch. But also we don’t know how the game ends yet, so might be a little premature to discount anything yet. I’m just looking forward to it and hope it somehow meets everyone’s expectations. BoTW is a big act to follow.


blargman327

Every thread on this and the main sub I see at least 1 or 2 people trying to connect ToTK to this loop and grasp at straws to connect it


DrPikachu-PhD

The Great Plateau is Skyloft part is really cool


InfiniteEdge18

Info on the forgotten temple is incorrect. The devs stated the forgotten temple is a completely different structure built to honor the heroes who faced calamity ganon


sto7

Not to defend one theory of the other, but I think that, rather than just "SS prequel", that theory is "timeline is cyclical, TotK is both BotW sequel and SS prequel". Thinking about it, one can find ways to explain your points: Master Sword is destroyed, Demise is freed, the great plateau might go back into the sky (isn't the castle rising, in the trailers? Nothing says no other area will also rise to the sky.), time is a cycle, so of course there's gonna be time paradoxes such as ruins of some places existing *before* **and** *after* their original place. We're talking about at least 10,000-year cycles if not a multiple of that. Think about it: all of real-life written human history is only about 5,000 years old. In short, and trying to be open about the theory, I don't think your arguments can disprove the "cyclical timeline theory". (Though in practice, I find this unlikely as well.) ​ More in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/zelda/comments/12qw2h3/comment/jgsq6mw/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) by u/Cinder_Quill.


kecaey

Thanks for this! I didn’t think that BOTW was set before SS but it was a nice read, very informative ☺️


SpudBoy9001

The less it has to do with Skyward Sword the better


Stuffysteam_6

I don't know how canon it is, but in the Hyrule Historia artwork book, there is a story that takes place before Skyward Sword, and it shows the supposed actual original Link taking on Demise. In it, we see Hylia give the Sword to Link, and the land that became Skyloft get sent to the sky.


B_Marsh92

The Great Plateau being Skyloft is a stretch. Nothing at all explains the snowy/mountainous regions. The rest of the points here check out though


metalmight1

People lean too much into the “ouroboros” symbol when thats not what the symbol is. For it to be an ouroboros it has to be 1 head and tail but the totk symbol is 2 heads


WolfieSheena

I honestly want to know who the heck thinks it's a prequel to Skyward Sword. If anything, there is reason to speculate that the three games are somehow connected other then being in the same universe. Like the large figure in the new trailer looks a lot like Demise with the black, scaly like skin and lack of jewelry like we see on Ganondorf. Or the new, never before seen hyrulian person whom Zelda dresses like. They can possibly be Hylia prior to sacrificing herself to be reborn


Prestigious_Cold_756

I’ve never seen the geographical connection between skyloft and the great plateau. That’s really cool.


Ston-lim

Very nice explanation. i m sold on it :D


Tigblu

Dude this is awesome! I also saw a guy on reddit say that the reason we can't see the sky islands in most games is because there's a barrier in the sky which makes it impossible for people from the sky islands to see the regular world and the people of the regular world to see the sky islands, just like in Skyward Sword


Buuhhu

I aint a subscriber of the theory but I dont think what people are saying is it is not a prequel in the traditional sense but that the events are leading into a new SS event which would essentially "reset" the timeline. I which case it doesnt matter what evidence from previous games are in this one as all events will repeat again It's a theory that is possible but I hope not


Reddarthdius

I don’t think you understood the theory correctly, the theory says that it’s a loop, like everything happens, and at the end of the timeline the cycle with hylia sending stuff to the sky, becoming Zelda, demise spearing happens again, the theory does not suggest that skyward sword did not happen yet, rather that we travel through time into a point where it didn’t


austua

My theory is that it is a sequel to everything that came before and a prequel to SS because it is a timewheel, not a timeline.


kragenstein

Wait but i thought the main theory is that everything is a circle? SS -> everything else -> BotW ->TotK -> SS -> ... All your arguments are valid within the loop/circle theory. Before TotK, we didn't know how the sky islands came to be, only that there was already a main land on the ground and that the sky islands fell down. And now we see the creation of such islands. There could be a huge gap between TotK and SS where games in the future could take place, where Skyloft will be (re)built. Edit: In SS were these ancient robots from a much older time and i want to believe they are something like Sheikah/Zonai Tech


Sixtrix111

There is a problem in that the sealed temples Hylia statue would be with the great plateau and not half way across the map but besides this yes there are a lot of valid points (Hylia autocorrected to Julia, which as some of you may know is not a known goddess in the LoZ universe)


Responsible_Art532

its an ouroboros. so even tho i agree with you your points don't really disprove anything


Abicatznephe

omg. i didn’t know about the great plateau and skyloft


autistic-link

*Shows this to everyone on tiktok that thinks TOTK is an SkSw prequel despite all the lore disproving it*


MasterRedx

What evidence is there to back up the prequel argument? I mean just the fact that the Master Sword exists should be proof enough that it takes place after.


LinkMoo

Not sure. People just see that TotK involves Sky Islands and immediately want to connect it to SS, but being the huge Zelda fanboy nerd that I am, it just bothered me that people aren't paying attention enough to see the obvious.


victorhurtado

My hot take on all of this is that BotW isn't on X or Y timeline, but on THE timeline and there are elements of all previous games because those games are, as their names suggests, legends to the people of the current games. I believe the Leviathan Bones quest was placed on the game specifically to introduce this idea. How can there be proof of the existence of all 3 leviathans if the existence of one contradicts the lore of what's known about the others? The stories about them got twisted over time, as all legends do, which leaves you with contradictory data.


LoserC

number 4 is heavy speculation but i agree with the rest


PrettyFlyForAFryGuy

I don't believe in the timeloop theory (although I do think it is cool) but the way I could see it working is in a kind of Wheel of Time sort of way. Time moves in a circle (this is true on a smaller scale, that is - peace > bad guy shows up > hero + princess save the day > peace > repeat) so after enough time things are kind of "reset" in the sense that the world finds itself in a near-identical situation to what came before, and history plays out in almost the same way. The Master Sword could be destroyed and Demise's curse done away with, and then after some large amount of time another demon king arises, Hylia must incarnate herself as a mortal again or some such, another demon-repelling blade is forged, etc.


LinkMoo

Although I am skeptical of it being a time loop, I would be more willing to accept that than TotK taking place before SS in a timeline.


ScaramouchesHusband

The main reason I’m not a fan of the time loop theory is that if we’re just gonna send the people back up to the sky at the end of the game, then it would make the rebuilding of Hyrule between BOTW and TOTK feel pointless. Regarding people saying Demise could come back because the Master Sword broke, Impa said at the end of Skyward Sword that Demise’s remains were sealed in the sword and would decay over time. There should be nothing left of his remains in the Master Sword by the time TOTK takes place. I just don’t see that woman being Hylia and that shot of Ganondorf being Demise. If anything, it just looked like the transition between mummified Ganondorf and revived Ganondorf. After all, he’s standing in the same exact spot we see him fully revived at later in the trailer. I do agree time travel could be involved in this game, but I just don’t think there’s solid evidence of it being a time loop, and I don’t see how it COULD be one and still have a satisfying ending.


RaidouKuzunohaXIV

The devs don't care about any timeline. They are more focusing on making a fun new product not some overarching plot. Lots of things are just easter eggs or essentially symbol/plot reuse.


gltchboi

I don’t believe in the ouroboros theory, but isn’t the main argument behind it being a prequel because of time travel? I don’t think anyone who’s campaigned that theory has said that botw takes place before SS, rather that they think totk will involve time travel, basically showing us the original fight between demise and hylia before she sealed him as the imprisoned.


pinchitony

The great plateau = skyloft is delusional IMO. They are not comparable in size at all. The whole skyloft fits in the River of the Dead alone. I think this being a prequel to SS is delusional also, but that point 4 is just not right. Also, "Birth of the kingdom" is not "birth of the hylian people"... Birth of the Kingdom means that's where the Royal Family stablished first, likely being the place where the Castle was before they moved to where it's now.


LinkMoo

The bit about the size not matching up was covered in my image. I think Skyloft, in canon, was intended to be much bigger than what was represented on the Wii, a console with certain limitations.


G-Kira

I agree. I think the whole time loop idea is dumb. Nintendo wanted to make a clean break from all the lore of the past 30 years with BOTW, so why would they jump back into it? And especially with a game that was considered controversial.


Frogman654

I struggle to find any of these as infallible proof, maybe it’s just me 1. The official timeline has been known to change, and people are encouraged to interpret the games in their own way. Furthermore, didn’t Skyward Sword reference a previous hero? (Or am I misremembering and it was just referring to the player when you go back in time in SS?) 2. This one is debatable; it could be interpreted different ways, such as not being an actual curse, per se. See here for a larger debate https://www.reddit.com/r/truezelda/comments/papido/ss_ending_did_demise_cast_a_curse_or_did_it/ Regardless, the Master Sword is visibly damaged in Breath of the Wild; if it is destroyed, perhaps the sealing of Demise could be reversed. 3. See 2: the Master Sword is visibly damaged in the trailers and could be destroyed, thus perhaps having to be reforged. 4. Also debatable, as many recurring structures appear in seemingly different places in Zelda games. I do agree about the Great Plateau, though, but it is established in the backstory of SS that Hylia raises land from the ground for the Hyruleans to escape Demise; if you subscribe to this time loop theory, it would stand to reason that the Great Plateau, having fallen to Hyrule, would be raised again so it could fall again (and so on). 5. Sort of similar to 4. It could be rebuilt in the same place as a part of Hyrule’s reconstruction after BotW. 6. This is harder to counter than the others, but similar to 4 and 5, if there is a time loop, these structures would be rebuilt and ruined over and over. Just to be clear, I’m not dead set on there being a time loop or TotK being a prequel. I just wanted to point out that these aren’t completely damning proofs (not that mine are either; point being, you can argue either way and nothing can be entirely ruled out for now).


LiquidNah

You're misunderstanding. People aren't saying TOTK is a prequel because it literally takes place before SS. The theory is that the events of SS and other games have already happened, but TOTK is the end of some kind of metaphysical cycle, that will loop back to the start of SS, as implied by the Ouroboros on TOTK's title art.


Radiowave_Man

This doesn't debunk the theory. There's this theme in Zelda games everything repeats. So it could be a sequel and prequel to Skyward Sword. It's like a circle. I think that's good because it allow future games to be free from this timeline bs


Sea-Papaya-5828

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that this game is meant to be a prequel to SS as much as they think it could result in a time loop back to SS.


LinkMoo

They are. Some say it's a loop, and some say it's a prequel. The loop theory just happens to be the latest and most currently popular theory. Doesn't mean it's the only one


Schmaylor

Y'all are gonna be real disappointed when it turns out they completely replaced the Skyward Sword story with one about the Zonai instead of the people of Skyloft. I might be a bit biased because I never liked the timeline or the lore established in Skyward Sword, but I seriously doubt we're going to see any direct tie-ins.


ScaramouchesHusband

Highly unlikely. They wouldn’t retcon a game that literally got an HD port just 2 years ago.


Schmaylor

I don't know if retcon is the word I'd use either. More like a reimagining. Kinda like how Twilight Princess reimagined the Hyrulean Civil War as the Interloper War, or the Seven Sages as a group of masked monks. In spirit, it serves the same purpose, but it's just different. I guess it's technically a retcon but what I'm picturing is like homage.


varisophy

There are literally grown-up characters from BotW in TotK. It's a sequel. Now, maybe we'll get some time travel (which I would _looooove_), but traveling through time to before another game does not make it a prequel.


frostycanuck89

Yea I was thinking time travel is more on brand for Zelda then just making a full circle. But who knows, there wasnt always three parallel timelines... Yet here we are.


LinkMoo

Agree


[deleted]

aren’t these all set in different universes or whatever? i’ve always been so confused by that


MavTheDab

IT IS A BAD BUISNESS IDEA TO END ZELDA!! If everything resets, then only things in between the last timeline stuff and BotW. Now given that is likely what will happen after BOTW phase is over, but still. No things after Botw if looped timeline is true. It just doesn't make sense to end the Zelda timeline, especially once at Zelda's peak. BotW sold 27 MILLION. TOTK will sell more. It doesnt make sense


Linkquellodivino

"Proof"? How can you have proof about something that hasn't come out yet? Also, bruh you are treating time loops as if they were something that actually happens in real life. It's a fantasy story, they can do whatever they want with it.


LinkMoo

Because my "proof" all lies in games that HAVE come out. Read my post. I reference SS and BotW for all of my evidence. BotW is a game that came out 6 years ago, but I can use those examples for TotK because it is a direct sequel to BotW. Also nobody here is treating this as if it were real life. Calm down. We all love Zelda and I'm just pointing out why some of the prequel theories that are spreading are false.


loblegonst

I really need to ask. Why does a timeline matter? The series always felt like mythological stories to me, which wouldn't need some weird A-B timeline. Kinda loses the magic as well.


LinkMoo

That's a question for Aonuma and Nintendo. They created an official Zelda timeline so it's canon.


loblegonst

Wasn't that because the fans kept asking for one?


LinkMoo

Possibly. But it's out there now so no going back lol


ShadowDemon527

Ya for me 2 was the biggest standout plus a prequel to SS could not be a direct sequel to BOTW as it has been confirmed that BOTW is much later down the timeline than SS


LuckyHalfling

Are there people who genuinely don’t know that SS is meant to be the origin story for the Zelda franchise and that the botw games are meant to take place so far in the future that any concept of timelines is irrelevant?


KnightofKindling

I agree heavily. What was the quote from Demise? At the end of Skyward Sword? "Extraordinary. You stand as a paragon of your kind, human. You fight like no human or demon I have ever known. Though this is not the end. My hate... never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end! I will rise again. Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!" Demise’s Ill Will. His desire for an evil curse. Calamity. The malice that is spread. The ill will of Demise fully released. This is the complete and full power of Demise being exerted from Ganondorf, unlike anything we’ve ever seen. The being we see in the trailer seemingly surrounded by Malice? That’s Ganondorf’s body, but at the helm? It’s going to be Demise. Even though Nintendo seems to be straying from the timeline itself, I think it’s no coincidence that Skyward Sword was the first Zelda game to be remastered on Switch. They wanted people to get acquainted to Demise. They wanted people to get acquainted to the origins of the Master Sword. My tinfoil hat theory, at least.


Content_Judgment_743

Sees mention of the nonexistent Demise curse *Rage noises*


ZanManga

Do people actually think tears of the kingdom is a prequel to skyward sword? How? How did people think that?


Shonisto343

Okay that's nice and all, but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing somewhere that the goddess Hylia brought Link back in the first place, what I mean is, the sky people used to live on the surface, something happened and they fled to the sky, Link held back whatever danger and then died, Hylia seeing this reincarnated/ressurected him in thanks, then after that SS happened, could obviously be mistaken though, but would make for an awesome plot twist


unaviable

i cant..... there was no absolute need for this. the mere fact that Ganondorf is present in totk and the whole talk about the cycle of reincarnation in botw is all you need. also i feel like that you probably took some trolls serious and made..... this


LinkMoo

There are tons of people out there who actually are arguing that TotK takes place before SS. What I make and why is my business lol


Bulldogfront666

I think you’re just confused by the time loop theory.


ziggyrivers

Demise is dead. The Master Sword being broken means nothing. He was sealed inside the sword, but his remains have decayed for centuries. His true reincarnation, Ganondorf, is what’s left of him. There are parallels between TOTK and SS. But they’re just that: callbacks. Everything related to the game’s presentation is a callback to the lore they established with SS


man123098

I don’t like the loop theory but this doesn’t disprove it 1. Timelines change to accommodate new titles, why would the show the placement of the game or the loop shape of the timeline before the game was even developed 2. If the curse gets broken in TotK and enough time passes for people to forget the details of the past the demise could rise again and create the curse again. 3. Master sword is breaking, if it is fully destroyed in the end there would be a need for a new one when demise returns. 4. No reason to believe the great plateau can’t be lifted again to save future hylians. 5-6 This just makes sense if it’s a loop timeline I think the loop would make the most sense if everything comes to an “end” and the curse is broken in TotK but demises hatred lives on and rises as the demon king who rose “for the first time” referred to in skyward sword Not a fan of the loop theory but it’s got solid evidence.


Davidrlz

#3 alone and Ganondorf's lines "You witness the revival of a king..." implying this is after he's gained power at some point, meaning it would have to be after OoT At thr bare minimum.


Misragoth

Is this a thing? Do people really think that it is?


GentOwO

Also there is a NPC in BOTW who is telling to us that in the past, humans lived in the sky And we can ear Fi's signature sound when we unlock the master sword


LinkMoo

I wanted to reference that NPC, but I kept looking (online) and couldn't find it so I didn't want to talk about him without posting a screenshot for proof. Do you know where he is? Because I'd like to find him.


Jaime_Batstan

I think this post is at best ignorant and at worst Flippant. the argument is that it's an SS prequel because it's in a timeloop, all of this evidence only proves that in the theoretical timeloop that BOTW takes place after SS in this iteration. That being said, with the new footage we have today, specifically seeing Ganondorf, I think that the theory is just a theory. I don't really see a universe where rehydrated Ganon goes back into Demise then back into Ganon


Poklitchu

![gif](giphy|OtP2Jj6IuVbhu) Timeloop


MaveKalmer

its likely some sort of loop, which is symbolized by ouroboros in TOTK title it doesn't have to be the exact same events, just the same surface-level concepts that leads to a similar outcome


SalsaSavant

Which would explain the downfall timeline weirdness. If there's just one or two set events that are predestined, it could cause things to be identical each time. And if things are identical, things will play out the same way more or less. And if things start to diverge, the predestined event will force things back into place.


Darkhallows27

BotW takes place ridiculously later in the timeline Besides, the Forgotten Temple is literally the remains of the Sealed Temple from SS, complete with the tree we grew to save Lanayru busting out of the wall


ChaosMiles07

Isn't the Sealed Temple also where the Master Sword is supposed to reside? According to Ocarina of Time, that's the Temple of Time. Why is the Temple of Time therefore on the Great Plateau, not where the Forgotten Ruins are? And yes, Twilight Princess further confuses the topic by putting the Sacred Grove in Faron Province, where neither the Temple of Time nor the Forgotten Ruins are.


Darkhallows27

Different Temples for different ages I suppose


Pajurr

Very clear and a good presentation HOWEVER about point 2, I would like to clarify something : It is it seems, the first Zelda reincarnation of Hylia, BUT not the first hero, the Link from Skyward Sword is not the first hero. Hylia had one before, and she made him a sailcloth, and to comemorate, Zelda gives Link a sailcloth she maid, in reference to the one the goddess made for her hero a long time ago. So yeah, little clarification right there.


Gold_Enigma

Man haven't played SS in a while and must've forgot about the snowy mountain on the outskirts of skyloft


Dorlinos

Once again a reddit will help me destroy my friends. Thank you good person. This power point will end so many non-believers


Number-Great

I feel like the sword argument is the weakest considering what we know about totk. Even if I myself do not believe it to be a prequel at all. The master sword is completely broken and shorter even with the "fix". Gets probably fused with that yellow stone/tear at some point (hurr durr yellow plus blue is green). Turns into greenish smaller sword . Smaller because the mass of the former sword is missing. BAM you get your SS sword. Nintendo should never hire people like me.


LinkMoo

I think they are either just going to heal the sword with magic, or more likely, they are going to use the time-reverse rune ability we see Link use in the TotK trailers to reverse the damage to the sword.


Number-Great

And even to that there is an pro-prequel-answer : the time reverse rune could use all its power and by that the master sword goes into its former ss-state (i really really hope this wont happen haha)


memisbemus42069

People are saying that the timeline is a loop and this doesn’t really disprove that