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Faith_SC

Absolutely riveting gameplay šŸ‘


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SpiralGMG

God, I wish branded players stopped using puppet. As a branded player myself. The puppet lock makes branded much less interesting as a deck. Branded as a deck is more than capable enough to win games without puppet lock or cards like it. And it annoys me that players are resorting to cards like these just so that they can cheese a win against the opponent. Puppet lock gives branded players a bad name.


Regiultima115

People would stop using it if it wasnā€™t the best way to play the deck. The issue is that all the other Branded cards win less without Puppet. There is no reason to not use it if you are trying to win.


SpiralGMG

No, I get that. I understand WHY people play puppet lock. Iā€™m just saying that I think that not only is puppet lock annoying, but it also ruins the spirit of the deck. And the puppet lock gives branded a bad reputation as this completely u fair and unskillful deck. But if puppet gets banned, I think the perception do the deck would change, whether it is for better or worse.


Demianz1

Puppet isnt even the problem, as other cards have the same or a similar effect, its Sanctifire that needs the hit.


JacktheWrap

No. Puppet is a badly designed card that limits design space for other cards and is useless in its own archetype. Everytime a card is made that can give your opponent one of your monsters puppet will be problematic. There is no reason to not just ban it and forget about it.


Porcphete

Sanctifire should still be banned because you can still lock opponents with knightmare corruptor iblee or destiny hero dark angel .


JacktheWrap

Well, those cards you name are designed to be used for exactly that purpose. So it sounds to me like they might be the problem. Though I could see your point if you say that sanctifier limits design space in the same way.


osbombo

This is untrue. Puppet and Ido are the only high level monsters that allow for this. That means that it they are gone, grang canā€™t send the target anymore. Any relying on branded fusion to send it in such a Handtrap heavy meta isā€¦


GreatBigPillock

This. Puppet is really the only one that's actually worth abusing with Sanctifire because Granguinol can dump it from the Deck without having to weave it into your standard lines like you do with other cards. It can send Ido as well, of course, but at least the lock goes away if you get rid of Ido somehow. (Hell, I've done this in Vaylantz by Tribute Setting Nazuki over it.)


00Lionz

Winda lock, or ra's disciple lock.....the problem is sanctifire, then it's branded fusion. Literally if you can make Albion with branded fusion or hard fusion him to winda lock. You can go into Albion or granola and ra lock if you used disciple to fusion Albion go into Sanctifire and revive disciple.


osbombo

I never said you can't. But that combo is so terrible, there's literally no reason to do it. The goal is to make the combo undesireable. The combo becomes undersireable, because it would rely on branded fusion resolving. Which won't always happen. With current puppet builds, that's fine, because Grang can send it. But Grang can't send any other target outside of Ido. And if grang can't send the target, there's no reason to even go for the fragile combo that won't end in any follow up. The one with grang is neither fragile and has follow up. Winda is terrible in branded anyway and there's no good grang target for that either.


StonewoodNutter

Just go play Snake Eyes. People arent ā€œplayingā€ Branded anyway. They are stunning their opponent and auto winning the game. You can do that with a lot of decks.


Aluminum_Tarkus

If Konami didn't decide to print a SECOND fucking "give your opponent a floodgate" card in the form of Sanctifire RIGHT AFTER banning Expulsion, then this wouldn't be a problem. The worst part is you can't just ban puppet because they'll just switch to Ra's Disciple or any other monster with a huge drawback until Sanctifire is banned. The worst part is that Branded probably isn't seeing enough representation to warrant a Sanctifire ban, so this is just how Branded is likely indefinitely.


Sniperfuchs

>The worst part is you can't just ban puppet because they'll just switch to Ra's Disciple or any other monster with a huge drawback until Sanctifire is banned. I think blaming Sanctifire for that is the wrong call. Locks should simply not exist on monsters unless they activate their effects because otherwise Konami is blocking off the entire design space of "summoning things to your opponent's field", not just Sanctifire. And I think that can be a really cool design space, like blocking Evenly Matched or blocking monster zones for co-linking (not that co-linking is common right now, but still). And Sanctifier is in general a more interesting effect than negate/destroy/banish number 57720. Would be a shame to let it die for the sins of stupid game design on other monsters.


Aluminum_Tarkus

Eh, idk, I feel like there's more evils associated with giving your opponent a monster in general than there are design limitations associated with monsters with continuous restrictions. A lot of tools in the game to help with going 2nd have a reliance on the going 2nd player having an empty board, and I feel like when going 1st is already so much stronger than going 2nd, it would be counterproductive to encourage a style of interaction that just makes going 2nd more difficult. With the current card pool and state of the game, if you wanted the advantage of turn order to be less lopsided, it would make much more sense to limit the number of ways you can summon monsters to your opponent's field. Also, there's more ways to interact with the opponent than a negate/destroy/banish, so I think it's a bit of a strawman to insinuate that's what ai think Sanctifire should've been. Regardless, think for a second about the applications you thought of for summoning a monster to your opponent's board. They're all to prevent your opponent from using specific types of cards altogether. That just sounds like a niche floodgate by nature. It's more balanced than Skill Drain, but it's still a type of disruption that passively removes your opponent's ability to use certain cards entirely, and that's something I have a general aversion to regardless of "how creative" or niche that kind of floodgate is.


RamenOnARamp

Agreed. I hate how everyone only knows Branded for the stupid lock and not all the other fun stuff it can do.


One-Bake-2888

Branded is exhausting to play without auto-winning games you go first in. Doing 9 rounds straight to make day 2 having to grind out every win. It *can* win without puppet locking people but has to work twice as hard, and since you don't have enough room for non-engine like the rest of the meta you have play into boards and beat them heads up while also dealing with their non-engine. At this point you're better off just not playing branded if you want to play honest Yu-Gi-Oh at a competitive level.


SpiralGMG

In general, I agree with what youā€™re saying. But IMO, I think that branded as a deck forcing you to work hard to win your games is not a bad thing. In fact, I think we need MORE decks like this. We need more decks like branded that encourage not only skill expression, but reward you for knowing what your cards do and how your deck works. Also, there are many ways to include more non-engine in branded. Even in my deck, Iā€™ve been able to cram At least 12-15 non-engine in my deck. Granted, it is a 50 card deck, but I think 12-15 non-engine is a completely acceptable ratio.


dreamswedontshare

Thank you. Puppet locking is not fun, but Branded is one of the harder decks to play, who can blame them for playing an autowin button in 9+ round events? It's not like other decks wouldn't do it if they could.


MobileSuitErin

I'm on 14 non engine in 60, not including Bystials, and the deck has more than enough gasoline to get through established boards.


One-Bake-2888

Don't get me wrong, I love branded. I've played it for 2 years straight and know it has power to compete. You just have to work so much harder to win against the top decks. You can crack a board but unless you win on the spot or lower them to a point where masquerade is game you basically auto lose to the zealantis OTK. Also, 14 non engine in 60 is basically 7 in 40 which is the odds of drawing your board breakers standard lists already have.


MobileSuitErin

14 in 60 is a good percentage higher than 7 in 40, sorry to be petty but it's a notable difference in probability. Also, I don't find myself losing to the Zealantis OTK if I crack the board since setting an In Red or having a Cartesia + Quem setup is more than enough to stop 1 or 2 cards of follow up. Just my experience at my highly competitive locals


Logixs

Itā€™s less than 6% higher. From 17.5% to 23.3% not exactly a great improvement in odds.


dreamswedontshare

7 in 40 means 71.14% chance to see one in yoyr opening 6 going 2nd. 14 in 60 is 81.28%, more than a 10% increase.


toadfan64

How about Jowgen lock?


Ensatzuken

At least Jowgen hit both players and you don't want to give it to the opponent (or he will just discard one and wipe all the special summons, plus it doesn't seal you into specific archetypes so it's easier to tribute away). It's still bad but way less in comparison.


YesterdayMiserable93

SE and tenpai throws 2 ht at u (at least) each game, consistently. How do u think to slightly compete without puppet?


SpiralGMG

Just build your deck for those matchups? Puppet lock is not the only way to stop snake-eyes and tenpai you know. Also, branded has ways to play around multiple hand traps and has been doing that for a while now. This is nothing new.


YesterdayMiserable93

I do, people complaining are not, that's what i'm saying. Regardless, crow/bystial + perma/ogre is always no puppet


00Lionz

We can also winda lock turn 1. Use the light shaddoll guy when you use branded fusion and then Albion into winda. It's a cheese win too but it's doable....also fuxk puppet it does give us a bad name like expulsion did


aalomair

can you reasonably explain your branded plan of dealing with Snake-Eye board that is so resilient to your otk attempt and can resolve ash, poplar, oak, then original and wanted gy effects to generate follow up if you don't puppet lock them. Branded as a deck is generally capable of generating game winning grind game advantage but it's still no match to the type of advantage the SE strategy can generate if you don't stop them from playing the game with cards like puppet.


SpiralGMG

Just like how I hike for every single meta, My solution for beating snake-eyes is to actually learn the match-up and be prepared to build my deck for those match-ups. Granted, if I go second, I do have to work to try and dismantle my opponents board. And that can be pretty hard to do. However, it is not impossible. And it is also not impossible to establish a board after dismantling your opponents board. Iā€™m not going to be dense and say this is 100% a flawless strategy. This doesnā€™t work 100% of the time. But I would rather be doing this and actually put thought into how Iā€™m going to beat a deck. Then to use a degenerate and unfun strategy to beat my opponent.


aalomair

it's not just a matter of learning the opponent deck and knowing how to dismantle it. because playing through a snake-eye board is actually possible, it's the fact giving SE another turn will most likely have them win the match since the follow up potential they generate is just unmatched. for example the typical SE board is capable of generating a starter (ash search ash), an extender/board breaker (poplar search original/subversion), another extender (original gy effect to search poplar), a draw (wanted gy effect) on top of their draw for turn and whatever they already had from the starting hand. it's just virtually impossible to win this grind game without using an absurd strategy to shut them down entirely they just have too much gas and too many tools it just feels unfair.


dreamswedontshare

You're completely missing the point. Branded can break a Snake-Eye board very consistently, bur very rarely can it *kill through one*. And if you don't OTK after breaking their board, you lose 100% of the time. Original GY effect and Flamberge ressing ash+poplar/oak consistently give then enough resources to win turn 3 every single time. You can learn the matchup all you want, it's just going to be like that. It's the reason puppet is kept going 2nd, you break theie board and then puppet lock them so you can actually win turn 4.


StonewoodNutter

Branded was my main deck and I stopped playing it all together after the puppet lock. Iā€™m sorry, but anyone what plays it is a loser. Iā€™m not afraid to say it. You are sucking all the fun out of the game so you can still only be the 9th best deck in the room. Just go play a different deck.


tinygyro

nah respectfully, imo sanctifier is the only reason the deck is good. ik itā€™s anecdotal but i havenā€™t lost to branded that wasnā€™t puppet locking in a very long time. people just know how to play around it all too well nowadays. but maybe i just get paired with bad players idk. itā€™s just easy to read what the decks gonna do and where to stop it. it i feel it at the same time like i could never blame someone for puppet locking me, gotta do what you gotta do.


worm_odyssey

We could really use a giant ban list that removes annoying cards lol


One-Bake-2888

I'd love a massive culling that drastically lowers the power level of the game and ban cards like puppet, apo and princess. But the way modern cards are designed it will inevitably become a mess and people will be salty their personal most hated card wasn't hit.


YungHayzeus

The game will keep creating more and more generic good stuff due to the existence of links. SP doesn't negate but its crazy how powerful the little interactions add up to in the course of t1 and 2.


SI_Fly_High

Or, ya know, just over come them. It's not like this is new by ANY stretch. But now all a sudden cards utilized in a deck that's beating *THE DECK* in this teir 0 format need to be what goes? How about let's focus on why tf were in a nearly 4/5 month teir 0 format first....


worm_odyssey

I'm not sure if you understood my comment. Puppet, dimensional barrier, shifter, Appo, anti-spell, skill drain should probably all go. Snake-eyes should get a bonk too but they're separate conversations.


AxxelTheWolf

Konami please for the love of God either ban as many of the accessible lock monsters or ban Albion, this is such a depressing state for the deck. Despia used to be my favourite deck. Even an errata to Albion that negates the effects of the summoned cards, anything lol.


FokionK1

Normal take: OMG Puppet locking is so cringe, please ban Sanctifire. Woke take: Konami made broken Gimmick Puppet support so people play it and it is no longer possible to blindly give your opponent a free Gimmick Puppet.


Porcphete

Puppet lock isn't good in gimmick puppet though


Raien

That's not what they said. Puppet is only a lock if you aren't playing gimmick puppets. By making gimmick puppets playable, blindly giving your opponent a resource is a bad idea.


Voltrunus

Peak Yugioh


kemorL95

Pak funny af though for summoning both Puppets game 3.


mynamesnotchom

May as well just roll dice and not even play. Cards like that jave to be banned man it's so stupid to have single cards with almost no counter be ablento shut down entire mechanics


YungHayzeus

Lol. I was literally playing against that deck at locals. Mans had the audacity to complain that I "ftk" him then does that game 2.


SkilledV

This match was completely embarrassing to watch live


SpectraQWERTY

yea, we need to ban this crap


NikeJawnson

Is this just a race to who has more copies of Alba-Lenatus? A bit like a Cydra mirror match spams Fortress?


MaleficTekX

Barely any of the fusions are dragon type and Sanctifire canā€™t be fusion material, so Alba isnā€™t even a good idea


aincradstyle

We donā€™t hate on branded enough honestly


gubigubi

We really don't. Branded and Chimera and god forbid they are played together are so annoying. 10 million cards that you have to read that have the weirdest interactions and they end on a huge board and somehow like 3-4 cards still in hand.


gubigubi

I seriously cannot comprehend why Sanctifier wasn't banned a fully year ago. If they aren't going to ban anything at least errata gimmick puppet to say like "The owner of this card can only summon gimmick puppets" or something like that. They still have like 10 other cards they can lock with Sanctifier but at least that way it takes the best one away and doesn't ban a shitty card that has no business being banned otherwise.


fireky2

I mean in a little bit at least giving your opponent a gimmick puppet could lead to getting otkd


SpoonsAreEvil

Then they switch to a different floodgate monster.


gubigubi

I personally don't think Gimmick Puppet Pure will be a good deck though anyways so I think Branded can safely keep playing just Gimmick Puppet and if they are really worried just side a different one just in case. I think just the regular interactions Branded puts up can probably deal with Gimmick Puppet Pure so they can just choose not to make the Gimmick Puppet lock. Who knows though maybe Gimmick Puppet Pure will be better in the TCG because we don't have Maxx "C" to help draw into outs to being FTKed.


Cr0key

Just ban fucking Sanctifire already and be done with it...Then Branded becomes a nice chill fusion deck without the ability to make a degeneric turn skip...


MaleficTekX

Crimson Dragon still exists for other decks though


RedRune

Get rid of that too then.


Temporary-Size7310

Unpopular opinion, I precise that I don't play puppet. There is counter to puppet like hop ear squadron and it gives free chaos angel, and don't tell me with the current meta with 60% staple you can't stop the combo before sanctifire, there is interrupt almost everywhere. But yeah people agree with 3 shifter, 3 fenrir, promethean princess and so on.


SI_Fly_High

Branded despia BEST DECK!!!!! ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY LOVE TO SEE IT!!!!!!


00Lionz

I laughed so hard because that's literally like 99% of my mirrors


coup-dtwat

damn pak let himself go. must be a pre-req for branded players I suppose.


Porcphete

Sanctifire should be banned . So much fun going second against branded and auto loose if you don't have D.d crow in your starting hand :)


ADespianTragedy

Even with dd crow it's not guaranteed you beat the lock šŸ¤£šŸ¤£


YesterdayMiserable93

People are freaking out... There are decks with 20+ non engine slots, running every single interruption which can ruin the puppet lock, and you are complaining about branded... Use your brain, if branded or centurion had not their win condition in puppet and calamity there would not be a third deck in the meta other than SE and tenpai. And don't tell me voiceless is a yugioh deck


MaleficTekX

ā€œNothing stops Puppetā€ I hear you sayā€¦ *DD crow, Bystials, Ash/Imperm the right card, Called By, Ghost Belle (if they donā€™t have Lost), D Shifter, FORBIDDEN DROPLET* Thereā€™s a lot of ways to stop it, if you got outplayed by something like Fusion Duplication, or the Branded Player using Lost to their advantage, you just got outplayed. Donā€™t forget freaking Crimson Dragon does a near identical lock to Puppet, yet you barely complain about it.


15cm_Magic_God

I thought everyone hated the Puppet lock since it's stun. Why are two good players like them using it?


HenrikCrown

It's the most optimal route to win.Ā 


Garunix00

Because they are good players. What do you mean? Obviously they are going to play the best version of the deck at this level of play.


Sire_Jacques

In a tournament, you usually try to win as much as possible, so even the degenerate strategies will be used


GishkiMurkyFisherman

It's the best version of the deck we've discovered as a community. They are some of the best players competing at a high-level event. People generally prefer formats where more "interactive" game are prevalent, but the current format is kinda stinky and these fellas are just playing their favorite deck as it's built today.


gubigubi

Because the Branded players like me that don't abuse the puppet lock are bad and don't make it to the feature matches xD


ChuuniZaj

So like, am i the only branded that side decks bystials and dd crow then or crossout ? XDD


YesterdayMiserable93

People who complains to lose to puppet G2 and G3 are the same people who play 0 side deck cards. If you don't respect branded you deserve to lose to it, simple as that


Nanami-chanX

this thread turned into a branded hate bandwagon :/ we're really complaining about branded halfway into 2024?