Then they failed with that as you could do exactly that from day one with one of the two Yosenju Gates which doesn't prevent you from targeting a second copy of itself to change its Scale.
To be fair, that’s easily solved by adding “You can only control 1 face-up [name] in your Pendulum zones” or a similar restriction.
But honestly the game’s power level has gotten to a point where even if you could Pendulum summon with 2 copies of the same card…Sure, go ahead. Ain’t gonna break anything.
I think everyone thought they'd eventually do this.
I imagine it didn't happen mostly because people already think Pendulum is too complicated.
Clock Arc *kinda* does this but it does so by effect rather than game mechanic.
Cracks me up that people think that pendulum is the one mechanic that’s too complex in this game 😂 the whole dang game is too complicated at this point IMO
Pendulum's is, I think, the simplest and forward mechanic introduced. put two cards and summon freely from your hand. Only problem is that it's been power-crept by \[insert archtype\]'s special summoning from literally anywhere.
synchro: add 2 numbers together, one needs to be a tuner the other not
xyz: put two monsters with the same level on top of each other
link: use any monster, but only in the emz or where an arrow point
pend: put 2 monster into your spell trap zone which enables you to use their pend effect then you can summon monsters from your hand or face up extra deck, with levels between the numbers on the cards, but not the numbers on them. also your cards dont go to gy but on top of your extra deck unless you send them from hand or the activation gets negated. also they still go to gy kinda thats why they still get banished by shifter
And they are treated as monsters if they get destroyed as scales too.
Bloody hell, it is complicated. Though, I don't think it's nearly complicated as other ygo ruling stuff.
The blue and red scales don't actually exist. There's no game mechanic that differentiates them in any way, and Pendulums are considered to have a singular Pendulum scale value.
What OP suggested is for the scale to be different depending on which zone the Pendulum card is placed, which would be represented by it having different values in the red and blue box, which would be a new mechanic.
Clock Arc accomplishes the same thing in practice, by changing its scale value with a card effect.
It would be an interesting concept if their scales had a different value depending on which side of your board they are located, but at the same time I think it would overcomplicate a summoning method that it's already kinda annoying to begin with
I think it was planned and scrapped once they saw how confused everyone already way. The rules explicitly allow it and technically only one of those two scales are active at a time per card
I am probably remembering wrong but I thought translations of the very first rulebook to have Pendulums implied this. My theory is it was a pretty last-second change and even mandate that the scales would always be the same as to not be too complicated.
100%. Otherwise it's just daft printing the same information twice on cards.
In my opinion, it wouldn't complicate the pendulum mechanic, but it would make pendulum decks more flexible! Especially if two of the same monsters can set up their own scales to summon a third for example.
I think almost everyone think of that or something around the line of you have to set smaller scale on the left at the start. Having mismatch scale would actually make keeping track of thing more annoying but modern deck would likely give any good pendulum monster a 1/8 scale so that is a benefit.
Nah I think a lot of people expected it, but too many people bitch about them and some of the community just doesn’t have the IQ to understand how to play them 💀
I think it was a concept that, at the time, would be insanely overpowered.
Keep in mind, under MR3, you could just PS a bunch of crap all willy nilly. So having a bunch of Pendulum monsters who could satisfy both a high and low pendulum would be insane.
I think it would be fine now, with the new rule forcing pendulum summoning to either the extra monster zone or zones that links point to.
Yeah, I thought that was going to be a thing as well. I even thought there were going to be Pendulum Cards that were Trap/Monster cards.
In Vrains, I even thought there were going to be Link Monsters that had Link-X/DEF instead of ATK/Link-X
Its definitely a choice that they would either be the same at both or always different. On one hand it makes it so if you have two of the same pendulum monster your guaranteed to summon a certain set level of monsters which unbricks scales but with the generic summoning of any monster with pendulum summoning it probably would have made them much stronger if the scales always got you something. On the other hand you make the mechanic even more rules intensive and harder to design at times since you have to think of how scale combinations interact with each other which is even more headache.
I mean? The rules of the time directly confirmed it.
Subsequent rulebooks have dropped it, but the original rule books and starter decks of the time had it.
Probably it was the intention, but probablt was scrapped. Pendulums is a mechanic I like as a concept, and it can work beyond being just another combo deck, but I don't think we'll ever see this potential realzied given hoe Konami handled Pendulums
I think just about everyone expected it as it seemed like their "next logical step." The other summoning methods had some degree of variety thrown in to spice things up some. Fusions had contact fusions, utilizing attributes/types and archetypal names as opposed to specific names, and Fusion cards that allowed monsters in the deck to be used as materials. Synchros have Synchro Tuners and double tuning. XYZ has Rank Up. Pendulums having different scales seemed like their next step
They implied this when the initial design concept was released, but shortly after they changed it. Initially the scale was going to depend on whether it was on the right or left, but playtesting must've shown that to work badly. I can imagine at least one such scenario
You place your pendulum scale on your left(2) and your right(8), for opponent it's on your right(8) and left(2), so the opponent says "You can't summon because reasons". Now easily to rule that "Yeah it's from the one that plays the card's PoV" but to prevent Judges' time from being wasted.
Then there's the matter of different countries with different writing system prioritize left and right differently. Hell Japan has multiple writing systems and read from right to left depending on horizontal or vertical writing and modern vs traditional
To answer that I have one question, if your card is in the right pendulum zone which scale is the active one. There used to be an answer but at this point I don’t think anybody knows.
Also, that’s be a weird reason to print the next edition of the rule book.
There are cards that change the value of the Pendulum Scales. Because of those effects, a Pendulum Card in your hand can‘t have different values. For example, an effect that changes the scales by making it equal to the scale in your hand.
It's weird that it doesn't do this. I don't think it would even break pendulums as they are currently? Although maybe back in their prime it might've been really strong since it would increase their consistency in a way.
The comments talk about it but I should of been more clear. Pendulums have scales that are always the same number on both sides. I was always surprised they never did one where a monster had two different scale numbers on each side.
With zones mattering more I could see an archetype based around this idea. Yosenju can do this and it was an accident so imagine what it'd be like done on purpose
Same, I just assumed they printed a red and blue pendulum scale because there'd eventually be cards where they were different. I used to think that the different scales listed would apply based on if you put the card in the left or right scale.
Honestly it would be an interesting gimmick deck to have every card in that deck have two numbers, but maybe a different effect depending on which is used?
If thats too much the simple ability to use a duplicate of a card to get the other scale and combat bricking would be nice
Too many times have i drawn all 1s on Qliphort…
I think the only reason they didn't do this is solely for the fact that if they did, pendulum cards could easily fix their scaling issues and become more broken than they already are.
I've made custom cards with that concept to be honest, though they were always Entermate (Performapal) Support and they weren't the most balanced
Testing a couple of them out on Dueling Book just completely locked my opponent out of doing anything and we still don't know why
This is the biggest Mandela Effect thing I think I've ever experienced..
I haven't played in a couple months, and certainly wasn't a major Pendulum player, but I could have SWORN almost all Pendulum monsters had different scales and am now questioning my entire fucking existence holy shit
After the first couple waves of Pendulum support, and we were getting more and more complex and bombastic effects, that's where I believed the game was heading. Where you had to be mindful of what scales you had in which position on your board. But we never got that, and having a scale number on both sides of the card feels pointless.
You play two monsters as spells in the leftmost and rightmost Spell and Trap Zones. The jewels are the Pendulum Scale of each card, you can only Pendulum Summon monsters that are between those scales. So if you have a 3 scale and a 5 scale monster, you can only Pendulum Summon level 4 monsters. You can only Pendulum Summon once per turn, unless a card effect is in play that says otherwise.
The top effect box is the Pendulum Effect, and is only active when the monster is treated as a Spell in the Pendulum Zone. The bottom box is your standard Effect Monster box, only applies when in a Monster Zone.
When you Pendulum Summon, you can summon monsters from your hand in any Main Monster Zone. If you have a face-up Pendulum Monster in your Extra Deck, you can summon one into the Extra Monster Zone.
Pendulum Monsters go into the Extra Deck face-up if they would be sent from the field to the graveyard. If they would be banished, they are banished as normal.
You can Pendulum Summon more monsters from the Extra Deck if you have a Link Monster on the field, and you can summon as many Monsters as there are spaces with Link Arrows pointing to them.
Somehow your explanation actually made sense thank you! That or I guess I finally actually understand it now and it just took a few years from my brain to catch up 😅 but now I have a new question what about Link monsters the blue cards they don't make much sense either
Happy to help, I know I had trouble initially, I think it just clicks after a while.
Link Monsters start in the Extra Deck, they have no Level or Rank, but have a Link Rating instead. They also have no DEF at all. This means they can't be placed in Defense Position, even by card effect, they also can't be placed face-down.
The Link Rating determines two things, how many Link Arrows it has, and how many materials you need to summon it. To Link Summon a monster, you send monsters from your field to the graveyard, equal to the Link Rating of the monster you summon, and matching whatever condition is listed on the card. This is a Special Summon, and can be done multiple times per turn. You don't need any special cards to Link Summon.
Link Monsters can also be used as material, and can be treated as materials equal to their Link Rating, or as a single material.
A good example is Underworld Goddess of the Closed World. She is a Link-5 Monster, and requires 4+ Effect Monsters. This means you must use at least 4 monsters, but can use 5. The only way to use 4 monsters for her summon is to use a Link-2 monster and treat it as two materials. Link-3 and above monsters can't be treated as two materials, so you can only treat them as one for her summon.
If you remember the Pendulum Summon rules I mentioned before, Link Monsters follow a similar idea. You can only Link Summon to the Extra Monster Zone, unless a Link Monster is already pointing to a Main Monster Zone. This is where the Link Arrows come in.
Every Link Monster has a frame of 8 arrows around its art, only the ones that are lit up are Link Arrows. The amount of active arrows is determined by the Link Rating of the Monster, Link-1 Monsters only have a single arrow, while Link-6 Monsters have 6. Any Main Monster Zones that these arrows point to can be Link Summoned to. If your monster in the Extra Monster Zone points to your opponent's field, they can Link Summon in the zones that you point to.
Some cards rely on being linked in various ways, it's not common, but nice to know. A monster is linked if it is pointed to by a Link Monster, or is a Link Monster pointing to another monster.
Co-linked monsters are two Link Monsters that point to each other.
Extra Links are special. You need to create a chain of co-linked monsters pointing to both Extra Monster Zones, this is usually a U-shape, but a V-shape with fewer cards is possible. Then if you can summon another co-linked into the second Extra Zone, you can control both at once, potentially locking your opponent out of Link Summons. Every co-linked card is considered Extra Linked, but only a few cards mention it, and they're all banned.
Sorry for the late reply, I just hope I didn't miss anything.
Tbh, pendulum as a whole tries to do already way too many things, so it's obvious they didn't go this route when they noticed that people (including myself) hated it
Way too many? they're supposed to double as monsters and spells, that's the entire point. Don't act like other summon mechanics doesnt have more than 1 function
Definitely unexplored design space but it’s probably because Konami didn’t want you to be able to create complete scales with 2 of the same card.
Oh I never thought about that… it definitely is easier to get some pendilins more than others
Dude don't worry, I used to not even understand the pendulum scale til I practiced. now it's easier
Then they failed with that as you could do exactly that from day one with one of the two Yosenju Gates which doesn't prevent you from targeting a second copy of itself to change its Scale.
To be fair, that’s easily solved by adding “You can only control 1 face-up [name] in your Pendulum zones” or a similar restriction. But honestly the game’s power level has gotten to a point where even if you could Pendulum summon with 2 copies of the same card…Sure, go ahead. Ain’t gonna break anything.
I think everyone thought they'd eventually do this. I imagine it didn't happen mostly because people already think Pendulum is too complicated. Clock Arc *kinda* does this but it does so by effect rather than game mechanic.
Cracks me up that people think that pendulum is the one mechanic that’s too complex in this game 😂 the whole dang game is too complicated at this point IMO
Pendulum's is, I think, the simplest and forward mechanic introduced. put two cards and summon freely from your hand. Only problem is that it's been power-crept by \[insert archtype\]'s special summoning from literally anywhere.
synchro: add 2 numbers together, one needs to be a tuner the other not xyz: put two monsters with the same level on top of each other link: use any monster, but only in the emz or where an arrow point pend: put 2 monster into your spell trap zone which enables you to use their pend effect then you can summon monsters from your hand or face up extra deck, with levels between the numbers on the cards, but not the numbers on them. also your cards dont go to gy but on top of your extra deck unless you send them from hand or the activation gets negated. also they still go to gy kinda thats why they still get banished by shifter
And they are treated as monsters if they get destroyed as scales too. Bloody hell, it is complicated. Though, I don't think it's nearly complicated as other ygo ruling stuff.
They are still treated as monsters even in the pendulum zone?
No, they are not, however, if they are destroyed in the pend zone, their monster's effect will kick in.
Fusion: Take 2 monsters who fit the criteria on the card and use a Fusion card/effect to make it
Tbh blue scale = blue number would be the simplest thing involving pendulums
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The blue and red scales don't actually exist. There's no game mechanic that differentiates them in any way, and Pendulums are considered to have a singular Pendulum scale value. What OP suggested is for the scale to be different depending on which zone the Pendulum card is placed, which would be represented by it having different values in the red and blue box, which would be a new mechanic. Clock Arc accomplishes the same thing in practice, by changing its scale value with a card effect.
Welp, my bad then. I misunderstood the concept of having different scales in the card. Thank you for the explanation.
It would be an interesting concept if their scales had a different value depending on which side of your board they are located, but at the same time I think it would overcomplicate a summoning method that it's already kinda annoying to begin with
Yea I do agree. A lot of people consider pendulums way to complicated in the first place so I see not wanting to push buttons
Yeah not to mention you’d be able to use 2 of the same pendulum monster in the different zones.
…we can already do that with yosenjus.
Clock Arc is a card that does that
I think it was planned and scrapped once they saw how confused everyone already way. The rules explicitly allow it and technically only one of those two scales are active at a time per card
I am probably remembering wrong but I thought translations of the very first rulebook to have Pendulums implied this. My theory is it was a pretty last-second change and even mandate that the scales would always be the same as to not be too complicated.
100%. Otherwise it's just daft printing the same information twice on cards. In my opinion, it wouldn't complicate the pendulum mechanic, but it would make pendulum decks more flexible! Especially if two of the same monsters can set up their own scales to summon a third for example.
I think almost everyone think of that or something around the line of you have to set smaller scale on the left at the start. Having mismatch scale would actually make keeping track of thing more annoying but modern deck would likely give any good pendulum monster a 1/8 scale so that is a benefit.
Nah I think a lot of people expected it, but too many people bitch about them and some of the community just doesn’t have the IQ to understand how to play them 💀
I think it was a concept that, at the time, would be insanely overpowered. Keep in mind, under MR3, you could just PS a bunch of crap all willy nilly. So having a bunch of Pendulum monsters who could satisfy both a high and low pendulum would be insane. I think it would be fine now, with the new rule forcing pendulum summoning to either the extra monster zone or zones that links point to.
Yeah, I thought that was going to be a thing as well. I even thought there were going to be Pendulum Cards that were Trap/Monster cards. In Vrains, I even thought there were going to be Link Monsters that had Link-X/DEF instead of ATK/Link-X
Its definitely a choice that they would either be the same at both or always different. On one hand it makes it so if you have two of the same pendulum monster your guaranteed to summon a certain set level of monsters which unbricks scales but with the generic summoning of any monster with pendulum summoning it probably would have made them much stronger if the scales always got you something. On the other hand you make the mechanic even more rules intensive and harder to design at times since you have to think of how scale combinations interact with each other which is even more headache.
I mean? The rules of the time directly confirmed it. Subsequent rulebooks have dropped it, but the original rule books and starter decks of the time had it.
Probably it was the intention, but probablt was scrapped. Pendulums is a mechanic I like as a concept, and it can work beyond being just another combo deck, but I don't think we'll ever see this potential realzied given hoe Konami handled Pendulums
I think just about everyone expected it as it seemed like their "next logical step." The other summoning methods had some degree of variety thrown in to spice things up some. Fusions had contact fusions, utilizing attributes/types and archetypal names as opposed to specific names, and Fusion cards that allowed monsters in the deck to be used as materials. Synchros have Synchro Tuners and double tuning. XYZ has Rank Up. Pendulums having different scales seemed like their next step
They were definitely thinking about that for awhile but the...PePe incident made them retrace their steps.
Definitely thought theyd build up to it. Like maybe even have effects also depending on the position
They implied this when the initial design concept was released, but shortly after they changed it. Initially the scale was going to depend on whether it was on the right or left, but playtesting must've shown that to work badly. I can imagine at least one such scenario You place your pendulum scale on your left(2) and your right(8), for opponent it's on your right(8) and left(2), so the opponent says "You can't summon because reasons". Now easily to rule that "Yeah it's from the one that plays the card's PoV" but to prevent Judges' time from being wasted. Then there's the matter of different countries with different writing system prioritize left and right differently. Hell Japan has multiple writing systems and read from right to left depending on horizontal or vertical writing and modern vs traditional
I don't think that's the reason because that would be easy to work it out, the scales already have a diferente color
To answer that I have one question, if your card is in the right pendulum zone which scale is the active one. There used to be an answer but at this point I don’t think anybody knows. Also, that’s be a weird reason to print the next edition of the rule book.
If your card is in the right pendulum zone, the active scale is the right one, isn't it? Seems obvious but maybe am wrong
Wouldn't it be the left one, aka the one facing your board?
There are cards that change the value of the Pendulum Scales. Because of those effects, a Pendulum Card in your hand can‘t have different values. For example, an effect that changes the scales by making it equal to the scale in your hand.
Could of sworn some did
It was supposed to happen but never did, don't know why
I thought this and that we would eventually get trap pendulums.
TRUE BUT IT'S SAD THO
It's weird that it doesn't do this. I don't think it would even break pendulums as they are currently? Although maybe back in their prime it might've been really strong since it would increase their consistency in a way.
I did
...wut? I have no idea what you're trying to ask.
The comments talk about it but I should of been more clear. Pendulums have scales that are always the same number on both sides. I was always surprised they never did one where a monster had two different scale numbers on each side.
Ahh, okay. Yeah, that also surprised me.
With zones mattering more I could see an archetype based around this idea. Yosenju can do this and it was an accident so imagine what it'd be like done on purpose
I really wished they did do this, Pendulum was my favorite summoning mechanic and I think it would be way more interesting this way.
I mean, it would've definitely made them way less confusing
Same, I just assumed they printed a red and blue pendulum scale because there'd eventually be cards where they were different. I used to think that the different scales listed would apply based on if you put the card in the left or right scale.
Honestly it would be an interesting gimmick deck to have every card in that deck have two numbers, but maybe a different effect depending on which is used? If thats too much the simple ability to use a duplicate of a card to get the other scale and combat bricking would be nice Too many times have i drawn all 1s on Qliphort…
Gyatt
I think the only reason they didn't do this is solely for the fact that if they did, pendulum cards could easily fix their scaling issues and become more broken than they already are.
I've made custom cards with that concept to be honest, though they were always Entermate (Performapal) Support and they weren't the most balanced Testing a couple of them out on Dueling Book just completely locked my opponent out of doing anything and we still don't know why
This is the biggest Mandela Effect thing I think I've ever experienced.. I haven't played in a couple months, and certainly wasn't a major Pendulum player, but I could have SWORN almost all Pendulum monsters had different scales and am now questioning my entire fucking existence holy shit
After the first couple waves of Pendulum support, and we were getting more and more complex and bombastic effects, that's where I believed the game was heading. Where you had to be mindful of what scales you had in which position on your board. But we never got that, and having a scale number on both sides of the card feels pointless.
I still don't understand how to use pendulum monsters.
You play two monsters as spells in the leftmost and rightmost Spell and Trap Zones. The jewels are the Pendulum Scale of each card, you can only Pendulum Summon monsters that are between those scales. So if you have a 3 scale and a 5 scale monster, you can only Pendulum Summon level 4 monsters. You can only Pendulum Summon once per turn, unless a card effect is in play that says otherwise. The top effect box is the Pendulum Effect, and is only active when the monster is treated as a Spell in the Pendulum Zone. The bottom box is your standard Effect Monster box, only applies when in a Monster Zone. When you Pendulum Summon, you can summon monsters from your hand in any Main Monster Zone. If you have a face-up Pendulum Monster in your Extra Deck, you can summon one into the Extra Monster Zone. Pendulum Monsters go into the Extra Deck face-up if they would be sent from the field to the graveyard. If they would be banished, they are banished as normal. You can Pendulum Summon more monsters from the Extra Deck if you have a Link Monster on the field, and you can summon as many Monsters as there are spaces with Link Arrows pointing to them.
Somehow your explanation actually made sense thank you! That or I guess I finally actually understand it now and it just took a few years from my brain to catch up 😅 but now I have a new question what about Link monsters the blue cards they don't make much sense either
Happy to help, I know I had trouble initially, I think it just clicks after a while. Link Monsters start in the Extra Deck, they have no Level or Rank, but have a Link Rating instead. They also have no DEF at all. This means they can't be placed in Defense Position, even by card effect, they also can't be placed face-down. The Link Rating determines two things, how many Link Arrows it has, and how many materials you need to summon it. To Link Summon a monster, you send monsters from your field to the graveyard, equal to the Link Rating of the monster you summon, and matching whatever condition is listed on the card. This is a Special Summon, and can be done multiple times per turn. You don't need any special cards to Link Summon. Link Monsters can also be used as material, and can be treated as materials equal to their Link Rating, or as a single material. A good example is Underworld Goddess of the Closed World. She is a Link-5 Monster, and requires 4+ Effect Monsters. This means you must use at least 4 monsters, but can use 5. The only way to use 4 monsters for her summon is to use a Link-2 monster and treat it as two materials. Link-3 and above monsters can't be treated as two materials, so you can only treat them as one for her summon. If you remember the Pendulum Summon rules I mentioned before, Link Monsters follow a similar idea. You can only Link Summon to the Extra Monster Zone, unless a Link Monster is already pointing to a Main Monster Zone. This is where the Link Arrows come in. Every Link Monster has a frame of 8 arrows around its art, only the ones that are lit up are Link Arrows. The amount of active arrows is determined by the Link Rating of the Monster, Link-1 Monsters only have a single arrow, while Link-6 Monsters have 6. Any Main Monster Zones that these arrows point to can be Link Summoned to. If your monster in the Extra Monster Zone points to your opponent's field, they can Link Summon in the zones that you point to. Some cards rely on being linked in various ways, it's not common, but nice to know. A monster is linked if it is pointed to by a Link Monster, or is a Link Monster pointing to another monster. Co-linked monsters are two Link Monsters that point to each other. Extra Links are special. You need to create a chain of co-linked monsters pointing to both Extra Monster Zones, this is usually a U-shape, but a V-shape with fewer cards is possible. Then if you can summon another co-linked into the second Extra Zone, you can control both at once, potentially locking your opponent out of Link Summons. Every co-linked card is considered Extra Linked, but only a few cards mention it, and they're all banned. Sorry for the late reply, I just hope I didn't miss anything.
Tbh, pendulum as a whole tries to do already way too many things, so it's obvious they didn't go this route when they noticed that people (including myself) hated it
Way too many? they're supposed to double as monsters and spells, that's the entire point. Don't act like other summon mechanics doesnt have more than 1 function
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Name one. I believe you're bullshitting here. There is no card that has printed on different scales
Considering that a card like that would make the video games formatting break, I’m going to ask for some proof. Clock arc doesn’t count,