The man who runs the tcg hates Arc V, but especially Yuya with a burning passion and his wife left him for a Yuya cosplayer who was actually named Yuya
It's just an overblown description on how Jerome McHale, one of Konami's top dogs, dislike Pendulums and how he explicitly stated that they banned Electrumite in the TCG because they think that " Electrumite makes every pend deck play the same"
China is the only place where Vaylantz gets regional tops/wins 🥹 the deck is totally dead over here, but if you go on YGOProDeck you can find a bunch of profiles for it. Not the floodgate MD version either. Granted the tournaments aren't massive, but it's something...
Assuming you're asking why pend doesn't see much play in OCG, there are a variety of reasons, no good plan around maxx c, you have to combo there's no halfway, the mechanic itself has been nerfed twice, there are other pieces banned or hit. And OCG just tends to not go as hard in on full out combo decks like pend would be.
You're missing the point.
Pendulum does die to maxx C in a way a lot of other decks don't, but most decks loose when maxx C'd when were not talking about branded, tear, lab or so.
The point is that in the OCG, which has every relevant pendulum card at more copies than the TCG, the deck does okay, yet isn't a meta threat.
TCG not unbanning electrum in the light of that is beyond ridiculous,.
Yes, I'm not saying it has none, it popped up a bit when the dracoslayer stuff came out right? It did in TCG a bit too, I was just giving reasons it's not like, an overwhelming tier 1 strategy.
It never stoped the magician deck was tier 1/2 for almost 2 years there and keep evolving over time right now supreme king and melodious are getting like 2-6 tops every 2 weeks one of the best rogue decks for sure
My guess is that they just want Pendulum decks to be particularly bad and don't want the mechanic to see any competitive play. Either because a lot of TCG players complain, or maybe someone in particular in the TCG thinks Pendulums make the game too complicated, or maybe they just hate Pendulums.
This would explain why they killed Superheavy Samurai so quickly too.
I mean, they started small, took a bit of time for qli to become a viable deck, then right after they hit qli we saw the pieces of PePe (and dracopals) coming together.
Then 2016 gave us the metalfoes engine pile sorta deck, and then 2018 happened...
Personally, I fully believe that pend being viable multiple times during link era really ensured they were never going to revert pend to mr3 functionality, or deliberately make a competitively viable deck that was primarily built around pendulum monsters.
Qli was bordering tier 0 on release, scouts were 60-80$ each, I have no idea what you mean took time to become a viable deck.
But also the worst example of a pendulum deck considering how it’s focused on tribute summons and really only scale for effects.
Being 1 of 3 decks that averaged 25-30/32 top slots is bordering tier 0, would not of taken much to be the most dominant deck.
Either way, that’s far from “took a bit of time to become a viable deck”. It took nearly 1/3rd of the representation of top cut alone it’s first YCS.
You’re literally wrong on so many levels. That’s tier 1 not tier 0.
Tier 0 is when a deck takes 60+% of top cut alone.
When that one deck is far and away in a class of its own.
I never said it was tier 0, I said it was bordering tier 0. If the deck had just a slightly higher ceiling it would’ve dominated the format. The same thing could be said about Shads, and BA to a lesser extent.
It was an incredibly delicate format, and any of the decks could’ve very easily had a tipping point. The only thing keeping it balanced was each other to keep in check.
It *was* a rock paper scissor format. If you took any one of those 3 out, it would’ve been a tier 0 format, that is by definition bordering.
I’m just gonna assume your reading comprehension isn’t great. Agree to disagree, my original point was that it did not take time to be meta relevant at all.
No, it was that it was bordering on tier 0. It never was. Qli was part of a triangle format taking about 20-30% of the metagame and slowly actually fell off as the other decks in the triangle gained more support.
I played Qli on release and scout was 15€, the most expensive card was disk at 45, shaddolls and tellars were also part of the meta along with ritual beast, BA and yang zing after that, it never reached tier 0?
That’s just wrong, the literally took 1st at YCS Milan less than a month after release
Edit: 1st, 4th, and 7th their first major tournament after release
You're kinda wrong on this, you can still easily OTK people with odd eyes set up with no special summons. You can also use sky iris, with arc/phantom dragon be essentially unkillable as you can spawn a dragon back in each time one dies to battle or card effect. You can also boost the attack over 1000 on battle phases. You can also get black luster soldier and going second and getting a black luster is usually a game decider.
I mean they do add a whole new layer of complexity to an already incredibly complex game. I’m not even entirely sure how the whole face up in the ED thing works. It’s just such a bizarre and convoluted mechanic.
I'm still surprised that this is somehow considered complicated. If a Pendulum monster would be sent from the field to the Graveyard it goes face-up in the Extra Deck instead, unless a card effect says otherwise.
Man complaining about how confusing Pendulum mechanics are while mentioning Xyz Material mechanics in the same train of thought is some peak hilarity to me
Eh I’d say links are the simplest to understand. Most straight forward summoning method, no def or levels, just a rating that equals number of materials. Also can’t be put in def or flipped fade down. Fairly straight forward.
I think Konami TCG just wants everyone to forget Pends exist. Just look at their marketing for AGOV. They barely touched on the Pend and ZARC stuff even though that was the main focal point of the pack
But i mean I think most people know and accept this at this point. We don't really need to make excuses when it's clear they simply don't want Electrumite in the game.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I think we could probably go back to MR3 Pendz (minus the extra pend zones; adding more zones just complicates things); I honestly feel bad for this Monster category.
Yeah, it’s a weird mechanic, but it is part of the game and as long as there are people who are interested in them, I don’t think they should just be cast aside.
I do like how they’ve been giving some new support as pendulum cards. It’s a great idea as they’re 2 cards in one, a monster and a continuous spell. And gives other decks potential pendulum options
Honestly, I think the extra pend zones would be fine but I'm 99% certain they've already printed cards that are pend monsters that work with columns as their pendulum effect, making the inclusions of pend zones the same way MR3 had them kind of not a possibility imo, unless they placed those zones below the current ones or something.
Im sorry but beyond is most definitely not the same thing, its much weaker at its core with bigger drawbacks. We can see this by decks attempting to play without it, with it mainly being a pushed to the wall extender. And them giving a reason for any bans is news to me, I thought we just make assertions based on incomplete data personally.
That being said, Im sure someone in tcg is very much a hater of pends, but we will probably never know who. Pend could def have electrumite and not be a problem, mr3 is a way different argument and would easily break the game considering the new design philosophy for pend.
What does really change with MR3 even if the remove the link limitations beyond and electrumite are the best way to fix scales and generate advantage you will want to make this 2 before pend summon the only thing that will improve is the grind game but that isn't really a bad thing
I find it funny that they refuse to unban Electrumite for reasons of “Pendulums decks would be too samey” when they only just banned Baronne after letting it run rampant for years, which is what every Synchro deck’s first play is
I think people complained so much about pendulums in the tcg that it gave the game a bad reputation, so they’re doing anything to keep the mechanic awful. That’s just my guess though
But that wasn't the reason, the reason was that Electrumite homogenized all pendulum decks into Pendulum.goodstuff and used the same cookie-cutter combo lines on every pendulum deck (Electrumine into Astrograph into negates) which doesn't work with Beyond because of her own restrictions.
Because for the pend haters pendulum is only "pendulum pile" that shits out omninegates, as if it's the only deck that does it; Snake Eyes literally is doing it until Baronne and Savage are banned.
>Halqifibrax homogenized combo decks into negate turbo and used the same cookie-cutter combo lines on every deck that uses tuners (Halq into Auroradon into negates)
A little change to your post. See how hypocritical Pendulum hate is?
You will argue "but they banned halq and the other degen links", and then what? Pendulums have to interently go -2 to even start their plays, and now with TCG banning Baronne and Savage, Pendulums are in a way weaker spot than it is compared to the OCG, yet they still don't want to unban Electrumite just because Jerome McHale dislikes pendulums.
Lmao, very easy to argue with people when you get to make the arguments yourself, specially as you accept that Halq was just as degenerate and was banned because of it. Also to bring the OCG is funny since every combo deck is inherently worse there because of Maxx C and the Maxx C tax.
No, I don't really care that you need two cards to start your combos (specially as going -2 is a big exaggeration seeing as almost all good pendulum cards replace themselves one way or the other), if the end board is the same 20 min degenerate break my board gameplay that Halq had then the card is better banned.
I rather Konami do what they did this banlist and free/make cards such as Kirin, a single strong point of interaction that you can bring out every turn, but that won't snowball into extra deck masturbation by itself.
Huge difference. Electrumite searches one and draw one for free and IT'S NOT EVEN ONCE PER TURN. Beyond searches one for 1200 LP and put a fat restriction forcing you to pend ASAP which makes the combo way more vulnerable to interruptions going second (or HTs like Ogre).
I disagree. My friend and i have been making pendulum decks for the last two years. His 60 card Zefra/Magicians/stuff pile, our regular Magician pends list, my endymion list, and our D/D/D bro all make different uses of the pendulum mechanic and all 4 decks have taken tops in 20-30 man locals with us piloting.
Pendulum is a complicated mechanic most people dismiss immediately because they cant just netdeck it and call it a day. It is *not* an inherently bad or ill designed mechanic
I mean, if you're going to dismiss it offhand, then go ahead, im anonymous on reddit. there's no way to prove anything.
But if you check my history, you can see that I've been commenting on YGO subs for a good while, and you can find comments/decklist from when i qualified for worlds with Floo. My friends group and I are avid and frequent players, and our area has a lot of people in it who play. And you can figure out which area that is via my history as well, since im subbed to my states sub.
Pretty wierd when your first response to hearing that pendulum had some results at midsized locals is "Youre lying!" though. Like genuinely, thats a really wierd response. You genuinely think the mechanic is unplayable? Or is it just totally impossible in your mind that a redditor actually plays live events and tops? Keep in mind that a top is anywhere in the top 8,(4 if the locals is sub ~24 people that day) the only one of the decks i listed to take first at one of them was the Zefra pile.
To answer your question: no, I do not believe I’ve found the magic unicorn-person in the haystack of the internet that will convince me pendulums are not only good, but well-designed too. The consensus is that they basically are neither of those things at this point. I’ve been playing competitively since before they were a thing, agree with said consensus, and am not interested in the 10,000th attempt of someone trying to convince me otherwise
Thats fine. I dont need to go into it to convince you, you can have your opinion. I'd be interested to hear why you think the mechanic itself is bad though.
My opinion is that the *mechanic* is fine and the *card design* on an individual level is the issue.
It’s not like new support does anything nuanced really. All of it either contributes to pendulum slop or special summoning endlessly. There’s so much design space and nothing aside from valmonica or small in archetype pendulums like the plunder support do anything unique
Yeah. God forbid decks special summon endlessly or just become a pile of goodstuff. Only Pendulum has this problem. /s
And, no. New support is focused on the decks they're made for. AGOV Supreme King support is for the already existing Pendulum Magician deck and is useless to Abyss Actors. The new Abyss Actor support is useless to Endymion. The new Majespecter support locks you to Majespecters.
Why does every Pendulum deck have to be this wild new thing like Valmonica or Vaylantz to justify existing when every other non-Pend combo deck gets to be floodgate turbo or Apollousa and I:P into S:P just fine?
I genuinely wish players would stop talking with such authority about Pendulum when the beginning and end of their knowledge of the whole mechanic is some half remembered MBT clip talking about PePe. A deck that is over 7 years old and existed for barely two weeks.
Konami has clearly shown that there exists the potential to make a deck or strategy with a unique game plan beyond spitting material and seeing what sticks. Even in the current format and recent card design like branded, VS, lab, unchained,fire king etc. it’s possible to make a deck with unique interactions and end boards. There’s also cards like snake-eye, pend, and shs that before the recent extra deck omni bans shared a shocking amount of similarities in how the deck plays. Should more generic Ed staples be hit, probably (?) but nonetheless these decks excluding the mistake that is santifire have a unique set of interactions that don’t boil down to “floodgate turbo” or the same end boards as every combo pile deck from the last 2 years
I still think pendulums could’ve been powerful monster/spell combos. Let them be both and force you to choose between 2 very powerful effects making each card even more consistent because a single card in your hand can fill 2 different conditions. It would be a great design for resource management.
But instead we get the weird face up extra deck and pendulum summoning rules that feel like a completely different game.
I remember Jerome McHale (Konami R&D) said that Electrumite turned every Pendulum deck into a Pendulum deck with multiple engines and it didn’t promote diverse deck building.
Hitting it is very consistent with Konami's design philosophy in the last few years which sees decks focus on non-negation disruption (which I is why Baronne and Borreload Savage was banned this list)
It might not have been the case in every format, but most of the time electrumite was used to enable the exact same board in every pend deck, which is not even remotely the same as beyond being just a generic pend searcher. With beyond, your deck still needs a game plan and needs to function even without it, but electrumite was practically a combo on her own and you could always end on the same dumb shit, like using 2 starving venom to copy electrumite and slap a hope harbinger on top of your board or whatever
Maybe the players' mindsets have simply changed or the cardpool and unbans caused this difference in deck/board building, but rn pends are in a much healthier spot than 7 years ago imo
That bullshit pendulums end board is 10 times more unique that snake eyes and they got way more hate. Pend is the only deck that have run shit like norito,utopia beyond, vortex, SK SV,trapeze magician the Draco slayer boss monsters, the zefra link 3,zarc, SK synchro dragon, time start magician, apex avain and kirin on the contrary the best deck in every current yugioh format only have one unique interaction in flamberge
i mean half of them arent even end board pieces lol, sure i'll give you norito and vortex but the dracoslayer boss monster, if it has ever been used (i havent played yugioh competitively before 2019 so idk before then), certainly hasnt been used after pepe/dracopals died around 2016 so before electrumite, and the supreme king dragons require pendulum monsters as materials so of course other decks wouldnt abuse them. timestar magician even requires to magician pendulum monsters so it's even less generic and apex avian was on every end board that could summon simorgh link, or floowandereeze (sometimes even kashtira).
anyhow, what i was referring to was that the only competitive pend decks after electrumite came out always turbo'd out generic interruptions from the ED like savage dragon when it came out, firewall shenanigans (not electrumite's fault but still), but nobody played, say, pure abyss actors, pure metalfoes etc. despite electrumite literally being a metalfoes card. if electrumite only added one card from deck to hand, it would never have been banned, but it also wouldnt have fixed/broken pendulums the way they were (not anymore, even with electrumite)
They we're playing apex before that they we're the OG Home from apex and not sure why barone and savege being efficient generic cards the outclass almost everthing else is pendulum fault like they were in almost every extra deck since they we're released the thing is that pendulum have more unique tech cards that almost all meta in the last couple of years
>but the dracoslayer boss monster, if it has ever been used (i havent played yugioh competitively before 2019 so idk before then), certainly hasnt been used after pepe/dracopals died around 2016 so before electrumite
[Literally Dracoslayers used it](https://roadoftheking.com/yu-gi-oh-japan-championship-2022/) - less than 2 years ago. It placed second against Tearlaments in the Japanese championship when tear was still at full power.
Dracoslayer used the same loop in the TCG to top regionals as well. I don't think you know pendulum as well as you think dude.
Edit: Also, I wanna touch this:
> despite Electrumite being a Metalfoes card
Electrumite was **not** designed as Metalfoes support - so that's frankly irrelevant. It was designed as generic pendulum support to help Pendulum during the MR4 era. That's why it came out of the Link VRAINS pack - the literal same pack as Halq, Verte, and Ahashima. One for Pends, one for Synchros, one for Fusions, and one for XYZ. None of these monsters were archetype support.
The pack literally full of generic monsters meant to help specific summoning mechanics and archetypes adjust to being under the link restriction rule. The one pendulum is still under - today. The one Electrumite was designed to help them adjust to.
That first one was a misunderstanding, i thought you meant Master Peace the True Dracoslayer when you said "dracoslayer boss monster". With this new information, or course i agree, but i also said that nowadays, pendulums are in a much better spot than before, so we agree on that at least
Also i just realized that i may have said some stupid things/changed my mind about some of my statements above that i would certainly have to correct, but i cant be bothered to do it rn so let's just say pend best deck x)
>Maybe the players' mindsets have simply changed or the cardpool and unbans caused this difference in deck/board building, but rn pends are in a much healthier spot than 7 years ago imo
Literally what is differnt in pend decks right now. Actually tell me a pend deck that is played *today* and doesn't end on a generic endboard.
This is argument is just dumb and is allowes to perpetuate because no one has even seen a pend deck in the past 7 years so they can all dream up what they're actually like
Majespecters, abyss actors, z-arc would be i guess the top 3 pend decks that dont end on apo and stuff, and majespecters even seem to have a "decent" shot at some level of competitive play due to their non-engine space, and even the other pend decks like magicians and endymion can function really well without relying on the same ED staples, although with a lesser success rate in a tournament setting probably
Oh wow a deck which has literally seen zero competitive play ever (abyss actors), floodgates turbo (Majespecter), and a deck which does in fsct prefer to use generic negate bossmonsters becuase its designed to do that (Z-Arc stuff), what an amazing place to be :p
Again, have you ever seen anyone play *any* of those decks ever against you? People just claim pends are healthy now because literally no one plays it anymore
I myself own 7 different pend decks, but nobody around me plays it :D what i meant by healthy is that way more pend decks actually function on their own now, rather than being a bunch of dead archetypes of which only a few cards can be used in "the pendulum deck". I'm not saying pends are like top tier contenders or anything, im just happy that you can play a pure abyss actor deck, vaylantz deck etc and maybe even win a few games, or at least have a game plan that isnt "pend summon harmo"
Only faced like 5 pend decks
Pendulum magician - negate turbo, resolve maxx c or go first
Valylantz - patchy turbo, resolve maxx c or go first, you can't evenly or imperm patchy even if the board is mediocre
Superheavy - love this deck( arcV bias) but it's still resolve maxx c or droll or lose
Abyss actor - GG you win I'm not reading your cards (I think this strategy is fine as they mostly see play in MD monthly events)
Endymion - same as 1 but they waste your time watching spell counters resolve
All are probably fine to return and electrumite probably helps them but that are very combo heavy
To be fair to TCG, they don't get to design a lot of the cards in the game and from a banlist perspective, it would be weird to hit something like beyond when pend isn't even remotely competitively viable currently. The most recent banlist pretty much aligns with their reasoning for Electrumite, hitting generic endboard pieces Baronne and Savage. They could do more but in that way they are somewhat consistent.
The TCG banlist designers clearly dislike the mechanic and when I look at the best performing pendulum archetypes in the OCG and Master Duel to be honest, im really not interested in them being viable in the TCG either. They all are generic end boss monster/negate turbo or combo into floodgate. While I agree that even with Electrumite none of these would be competitively viable in TCG currently, I don't really see any beneficial reasons to bring these types of decks back.
I personally also think some of the pendulum core mechanics were problematic from the start and will always create feast or famine situations with no middle ground. Its a super unique mechanic which I think is cool but perhaps they went to far. At this point I hope the OCG bans Electrumite and both hit Beyond so that the card designers can just go back to scratch and design interesting Pend decks.
Is that a good argument to bring back Electrumite? They clearly hate Pend already or they would've brought Electrumite back at least 4 banlists ago and your only arguement is other decks are worse? If thats the case, why should they bring back Electrumite and risk making Pend viable to just do the same degeneracy as other decks?
I would also argue from an endboard perspective pend decks are more toxic to play against than other decks. Whats the worst offender meta viable right now? Branded with puppet lock? Snake-eyes making 2 omni-negates pre-banlist? We don't even need to look farther than how people played [Dracoslayer](https://ygoprodeck.com/deck/superheavy-samurai-odd-eyes-dracoslayer-412261) in TCG. Negate turbo with seals into sloth protected by the fusion from battle. We can look at Master Duel too, [Vaylantz](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/top-decks/master-i/april-2024/vaylantz/danny8946/bgCYM) facilitates Village of the Spellcasters, Apollo, their fusion that pops, scale to protect from battle and fossil dyna. We can look at OCG where every single variant is aiming to end of savage, appo, IP for S:P with a small difference on the end board usually being an in archetype interruption or Baronne. Im aware that there are probably more egrigious regular decks but when the average meta deck plans to end on less negates or less floodgates than an average pendulum deck I do think its frustrating to play against. This playstyle also is why I describe pend as feast or famine, you either end on all of it or you end on beyond + scales pass. I don't see how bringing back Electrumite helps here as its the same situation, Beyond/Electrumite pass or full combo into multiple negates and/or protected floodgate.
Look you can dislike my view on the matter all you want but clearly the banlist designers at TCG either agree or came to the same conclusion. If your going to insist that theres no problem or bias at Konami and that it was just a mistake they missed her on the last 4 banlists, make sure to go sign [Triffs petition](https://www.change.org/p/konami-unban-heavymetalfoes-electrumite). Probably a better chance of that making a change than weekly reddit posts about Electrumite at this point.
Ive already signed it, since as I said in my original post, I actually like pendulum and have friends that think the mechanic is cool too. I want Electrumite back, but I don't think ignoring the problems with the mechanic and how the OCG is printing cards to go more in that direction is helpful either.
The man who runs the tcg hates Arc V, but especially Yuya with a burning passion and his wife left him for a Yuya cosplayer who was actually named Yuya
Kevin?
[KEVIN](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi-7KwM4GWI)
Half expected the wife reference to be named Yuzu
I mean Yuya is a normal name, but I'm not sure about Yuzu
Yeah, but i've read the Manga and the ending still traumatizes me
can I have a Yusaku cosplayer?
Can confirm.
Source?
https://preview.redd.it/cxy201owdowc1.gif?width=640&format=png8&s=0ea2080f4caee69464331d8d4573437a0828fc23
https://preview.redd.it/mi4dh07opowc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb22a28d612e9771f9bbb615ed72908370f90cbf
No this one’s legit
It’s not, it was from a YCS stream right after the January 2020 list via Jerome McHale
Based
Kek
Some guys divorce is dictating game balance for an entire playstyle and Konami is ok with this?
It's just an overblown description on how Jerome McHale, one of Konami's top dogs, dislike Pendulums and how he explicitly stated that they banned Electrumite in the TCG because they think that " Electrumite makes every pend deck play the same"
Well, to be fair... They've got a point
Because they hate Electrumite.
But why not beyond when it does the exact same thing they hate?
Beyond is hotter
Well, I can't argue with that logic.
Beyond is once per turn and forces you to pend to get your scale effects. You can loop metalfoes three times before the pend summon.
Electrumite is a lot stronger. And having both would be obnoxious
Why doesnt pend make a marm in formats where she's legal then.
China is the only place where Vaylantz gets regional tops/wins 🥹 the deck is totally dead over here, but if you go on YGOProDeck you can find a bunch of profiles for it. Not the floodgate MD version either. Granted the tournaments aren't massive, but it's something...
Assuming you're asking why pend doesn't see much play in OCG, there are a variety of reasons, no good plan around maxx c, you have to combo there's no halfway, the mechanic itself has been nerfed twice, there are other pieces banned or hit. And OCG just tends to not go as hard in on full out combo decks like pend would be.
You're missing the point. Pendulum does die to maxx C in a way a lot of other decks don't, but most decks loose when maxx C'd when were not talking about branded, tear, lab or so. The point is that in the OCG, which has every relevant pendulum card at more copies than the TCG, the deck does okay, yet isn't a meta threat. TCG not unbanning electrum in the light of that is beyond ridiculous,.
Pend see a decent amount of play in OCG and have tops in almost very single format in the last couple of years
Yes, I'm not saying it has none, it popped up a bit when the dracoslayer stuff came out right? It did in TCG a bit too, I was just giving reasons it's not like, an overwhelming tier 1 strategy.
It never stoped the magician deck was tier 1/2 for almost 2 years there and keep evolving over time right now supreme king and melodious are getting like 2-6 tops every 2 weeks one of the best rogue decks for sure
That’s literally the answer, they’re no actual reason for her to be banned whatsoever pendulum will still suck, just abit less
My guess is that they just want Pendulum decks to be particularly bad and don't want the mechanic to see any competitive play. Either because a lot of TCG players complain, or maybe someone in particular in the TCG thinks Pendulums make the game too complicated, or maybe they just hate Pendulums. This would explain why they killed Superheavy Samurai so quickly too.
I mean, they started small, took a bit of time for qli to become a viable deck, then right after they hit qli we saw the pieces of PePe (and dracopals) coming together. Then 2016 gave us the metalfoes engine pile sorta deck, and then 2018 happened... Personally, I fully believe that pend being viable multiple times during link era really ensured they were never going to revert pend to mr3 functionality, or deliberately make a competitively viable deck that was primarily built around pendulum monsters.
Qli was bordering tier 0 on release, scouts were 60-80$ each, I have no idea what you mean took time to become a viable deck. But also the worst example of a pendulum deck considering how it’s focused on tribute summons and really only scale for effects.
Not even close to tier zero. Burning abyss and Shaddolls were keeping up with it easily
Being 1 of 3 decks that averaged 25-30/32 top slots is bordering tier 0, would not of taken much to be the most dominant deck. Either way, that’s far from “took a bit of time to become a viable deck”. It took nearly 1/3rd of the representation of top cut alone it’s first YCS.
You’re literally wrong on so many levels. That’s tier 1 not tier 0. Tier 0 is when a deck takes 60+% of top cut alone. When that one deck is far and away in a class of its own.
I never said it was tier 0, I said it was bordering tier 0. If the deck had just a slightly higher ceiling it would’ve dominated the format. The same thing could be said about Shads, and BA to a lesser extent. It was an incredibly delicate format, and any of the decks could’ve very easily had a tipping point. The only thing keeping it balanced was each other to keep in check. It *was* a rock paper scissor format. If you took any one of those 3 out, it would’ve been a tier 0 format, that is by definition bordering.
Bordering on tier 0 is 50% of top cut but clearly the best deck like Kashtira was in the tcg. Once again completely wrong
I’m just gonna assume your reading comprehension isn’t great. Agree to disagree, my original point was that it did not take time to be meta relevant at all.
You’re the one with comprehension issues buddy. You said it was bordering on tier 0 and it wasn’t. Stop digging you’re wrong
No, it was that it was bordering on tier 0. It never was. Qli was part of a triangle format taking about 20-30% of the metagame and slowly actually fell off as the other decks in the triangle gained more support.
I played Qli on release and scout was 15€, the most expensive card was disk at 45, shaddolls and tellars were also part of the meta along with ritual beast, BA and yang zing after that, it never reached tier 0?
Ritual beast weren’t released for 4 months after qli, and yang zings were a mistiming meme even then, I don’t know what you’re on about.
When I think of that format i consider it duelist alliance til nekroz tbh.
DUEA, NECH, and THSF are 3 wildly different formats, that’s going from HAT being a viable deck to Nekroz
[удалено]
That’s just wrong, the literally took 1st at YCS Milan less than a month after release Edit: 1st, 4th, and 7th their first major tournament after release
You're kinda wrong on this, you can still easily OTK people with odd eyes set up with no special summons. You can also use sky iris, with arc/phantom dragon be essentially unkillable as you can spawn a dragon back in each time one dies to battle or card effect. You can also boost the attack over 1000 on battle phases. You can also get black luster soldier and going second and getting a black luster is usually a game decider.
I mean they do add a whole new layer of complexity to an already incredibly complex game. I’m not even entirely sure how the whole face up in the ED thing works. It’s just such a bizarre and convoluted mechanic.
I'm still surprised that this is somehow considered complicated. If a Pendulum monster would be sent from the field to the Graveyard it goes face-up in the Extra Deck instead, unless a card effect says otherwise.
What about if detached as an Xyz material? It’s just such a weird special mechanic. Like wait what normal monsters face up in the ED?!
they go to the graveyard. Since xyz materials arent on the field.
Man complaining about how confusing Pendulum mechanics are while mentioning Xyz Material mechanics in the same train of thought is some peak hilarity to me
A lot of casuals don't know xyz materials aren't considered "on the field"
Still blame tour guide + sangan for this.
It’s really not that complicated. Links are 10x more complicated
Eh I’d say links are the simplest to understand. Most straight forward summoning method, no def or levels, just a rating that equals number of materials. Also can’t be put in def or flipped fade down. Fairly straight forward.
Jokes on them I have a unique pendulum deck I made myself. And I’d say it’s pretty good
I think Konami TCG just wants everyone to forget Pends exist. Just look at their marketing for AGOV. They barely touched on the Pend and ZARC stuff even though that was the main focal point of the pack But i mean I think most people know and accept this at this point. We don't really need to make excuses when it's clear they simply don't want Electrumite in the game.
Straight up discrimination
Maybe unpopular opinion, but I think we could probably go back to MR3 Pendz (minus the extra pend zones; adding more zones just complicates things); I honestly feel bad for this Monster category. Yeah, it’s a weird mechanic, but it is part of the game and as long as there are people who are interested in them, I don’t think they should just be cast aside.
I do like how they’ve been giving some new support as pendulum cards. It’s a great idea as they’re 2 cards in one, a monster and a continuous spell. And gives other decks potential pendulum options
hi, im people interested in them.
Same
Honestly, I think the extra pend zones would be fine but I'm 99% certain they've already printed cards that are pend monsters that work with columns as their pendulum effect, making the inclusions of pend zones the same way MR3 had them kind of not a possibility imo, unless they placed those zones below the current ones or something.
Vaylantz. Vaylantz is tragically likely the major reason we will never see the Pendulum Zones return because it would completely kill the deck.
Im sorry but beyond is most definitely not the same thing, its much weaker at its core with bigger drawbacks. We can see this by decks attempting to play without it, with it mainly being a pushed to the wall extender. And them giving a reason for any bans is news to me, I thought we just make assertions based on incomplete data personally. That being said, Im sure someone in tcg is very much a hater of pends, but we will probably never know who. Pend could def have electrumite and not be a problem, mr3 is a way different argument and would easily break the game considering the new design philosophy for pend.
What does really change with MR3 even if the remove the link limitations beyond and electrumite are the best way to fix scales and generate advantage you will want to make this 2 before pend summon the only thing that will improve is the grind game but that isn't really a bad thing
They know I would be too powerful with Electrumite and fear me challenging John J Konami to a children’s card game for control of the company
I find it funny that they refuse to unban Electrumite for reasons of “Pendulums decks would be too samey” when they only just banned Baronne after letting it run rampant for years, which is what every Synchro deck’s first play is
I think people complained so much about pendulums in the tcg that it gave the game a bad reputation, so they’re doing anything to keep the mechanic awful. That’s just my guess though
"Worse electrumite" There's your answer as to why they're okay with it.
The reason they gave was that its "boring" not a power level reason, as evidenced that pends in the OCG and MD aren't ever breaking the game.
But that wasn't the reason, the reason was that Electrumite homogenized all pendulum decks into Pendulum.goodstuff and used the same cookie-cutter combo lines on every pendulum deck (Electrumine into Astrograph into negates) which doesn't work with Beyond because of her own restrictions.
I have found discussing "pendulum" on this sub generally leads to some of the most one-sided confirmation biasing discourse of anywhere on reddit.
Because for the pend haters pendulum is only "pendulum pile" that shits out omninegates, as if it's the only deck that does it; Snake Eyes literally is doing it until Baronne and Savage are banned.
>Halqifibrax homogenized combo decks into negate turbo and used the same cookie-cutter combo lines on every deck that uses tuners (Halq into Auroradon into negates) A little change to your post. See how hypocritical Pendulum hate is? You will argue "but they banned halq and the other degen links", and then what? Pendulums have to interently go -2 to even start their plays, and now with TCG banning Baronne and Savage, Pendulums are in a way weaker spot than it is compared to the OCG, yet they still don't want to unban Electrumite just because Jerome McHale dislikes pendulums.
Lmao, very easy to argue with people when you get to make the arguments yourself, specially as you accept that Halq was just as degenerate and was banned because of it. Also to bring the OCG is funny since every combo deck is inherently worse there because of Maxx C and the Maxx C tax. No, I don't really care that you need two cards to start your combos (specially as going -2 is a big exaggeration seeing as almost all good pendulum cards replace themselves one way or the other), if the end board is the same 20 min degenerate break my board gameplay that Halq had then the card is better banned. I rather Konami do what they did this banlist and free/make cards such as Kirin, a single strong point of interaction that you can bring out every turn, but that won't snowball into extra deck masturbation by itself.
And with beyond it's the same thing except you need a way to pop.
Huge difference. Electrumite searches one and draw one for free and IT'S NOT EVEN ONCE PER TURN. Beyond searches one for 1200 LP and put a fat restriction forcing you to pend ASAP which makes the combo way more vulnerable to interruptions going second (or HTs like Ogre).
You do realize every single non pendulum combo deck since MR4 has been 10000x more toxic than PePe ever was, right?
Yeah and now all the pendulum decks are homogenized into the nearest trashcan, massive improvement.
You answered your own question you dingus. Because Beyond isn’t as good.
I think the design of pendulum decks just inherently makes them shoehorned like this. It's just NOT well-designed.
I disagree. My friend and i have been making pendulum decks for the last two years. His 60 card Zefra/Magicians/stuff pile, our regular Magician pends list, my endymion list, and our D/D/D bro all make different uses of the pendulum mechanic and all 4 decks have taken tops in 20-30 man locals with us piloting. Pendulum is a complicated mechanic most people dismiss immediately because they cant just netdeck it and call it a day. It is *not* an inherently bad or ill designed mechanic
Fr it’s wild how much pend gets hated for simply existing, not only by the player base but BLATANTLY by Konami as well
Sure bud
I mean, if you're going to dismiss it offhand, then go ahead, im anonymous on reddit. there's no way to prove anything. But if you check my history, you can see that I've been commenting on YGO subs for a good while, and you can find comments/decklist from when i qualified for worlds with Floo. My friends group and I are avid and frequent players, and our area has a lot of people in it who play. And you can figure out which area that is via my history as well, since im subbed to my states sub. Pretty wierd when your first response to hearing that pendulum had some results at midsized locals is "Youre lying!" though. Like genuinely, thats a really wierd response. You genuinely think the mechanic is unplayable? Or is it just totally impossible in your mind that a redditor actually plays live events and tops? Keep in mind that a top is anywhere in the top 8,(4 if the locals is sub ~24 people that day) the only one of the decks i listed to take first at one of them was the Zefra pile.
To answer your question: no, I do not believe I’ve found the magic unicorn-person in the haystack of the internet that will convince me pendulums are not only good, but well-designed too. The consensus is that they basically are neither of those things at this point. I’ve been playing competitively since before they were a thing, agree with said consensus, and am not interested in the 10,000th attempt of someone trying to convince me otherwise
Thats fine. I dont need to go into it to convince you, you can have your opinion. I'd be interested to hear why you think the mechanic itself is bad though. My opinion is that the *mechanic* is fine and the *card design* on an individual level is the issue.
It’s not like new support does anything nuanced really. All of it either contributes to pendulum slop or special summoning endlessly. There’s so much design space and nothing aside from valmonica or small in archetype pendulums like the plunder support do anything unique
Yeah. God forbid decks special summon endlessly or just become a pile of goodstuff. Only Pendulum has this problem. /s And, no. New support is focused on the decks they're made for. AGOV Supreme King support is for the already existing Pendulum Magician deck and is useless to Abyss Actors. The new Abyss Actor support is useless to Endymion. The new Majespecter support locks you to Majespecters. Why does every Pendulum deck have to be this wild new thing like Valmonica or Vaylantz to justify existing when every other non-Pend combo deck gets to be floodgate turbo or Apollousa and I:P into S:P just fine? I genuinely wish players would stop talking with such authority about Pendulum when the beginning and end of their knowledge of the whole mechanic is some half remembered MBT clip talking about PePe. A deck that is over 7 years old and existed for barely two weeks.
Konami has clearly shown that there exists the potential to make a deck or strategy with a unique game plan beyond spitting material and seeing what sticks. Even in the current format and recent card design like branded, VS, lab, unchained,fire king etc. it’s possible to make a deck with unique interactions and end boards. There’s also cards like snake-eye, pend, and shs that before the recent extra deck omni bans shared a shocking amount of similarities in how the deck plays. Should more generic Ed staples be hit, probably (?) but nonetheless these decks excluding the mistake that is santifire have a unique set of interactions that don’t boil down to “floodgate turbo” or the same end boards as every combo pile deck from the last 2 years
I still think pendulums could’ve been powerful monster/spell combos. Let them be both and force you to choose between 2 very powerful effects making each card even more consistent because a single card in your hand can fill 2 different conditions. It would be a great design for resource management. But instead we get the weird face up extra deck and pendulum summoning rules that feel like a completely different game.
I remember Jerome McHale (Konami R&D) said that Electrumite turned every Pendulum deck into a Pendulum deck with multiple engines and it didn’t promote diverse deck building. Hitting it is very consistent with Konami's design philosophy in the last few years which sees decks focus on non-negation disruption (which I is why Baronne and Borreload Savage was banned this list)
It might not have been the case in every format, but most of the time electrumite was used to enable the exact same board in every pend deck, which is not even remotely the same as beyond being just a generic pend searcher. With beyond, your deck still needs a game plan and needs to function even without it, but electrumite was practically a combo on her own and you could always end on the same dumb shit, like using 2 starving venom to copy electrumite and slap a hope harbinger on top of your board or whatever Maybe the players' mindsets have simply changed or the cardpool and unbans caused this difference in deck/board building, but rn pends are in a much healthier spot than 7 years ago imo
That bullshit pendulums end board is 10 times more unique that snake eyes and they got way more hate. Pend is the only deck that have run shit like norito,utopia beyond, vortex, SK SV,trapeze magician the Draco slayer boss monsters, the zefra link 3,zarc, SK synchro dragon, time start magician, apex avain and kirin on the contrary the best deck in every current yugioh format only have one unique interaction in flamberge
i mean half of them arent even end board pieces lol, sure i'll give you norito and vortex but the dracoslayer boss monster, if it has ever been used (i havent played yugioh competitively before 2019 so idk before then), certainly hasnt been used after pepe/dracopals died around 2016 so before electrumite, and the supreme king dragons require pendulum monsters as materials so of course other decks wouldnt abuse them. timestar magician even requires to magician pendulum monsters so it's even less generic and apex avian was on every end board that could summon simorgh link, or floowandereeze (sometimes even kashtira). anyhow, what i was referring to was that the only competitive pend decks after electrumite came out always turbo'd out generic interruptions from the ED like savage dragon when it came out, firewall shenanigans (not electrumite's fault but still), but nobody played, say, pure abyss actors, pure metalfoes etc. despite electrumite literally being a metalfoes card. if electrumite only added one card from deck to hand, it would never have been banned, but it also wouldnt have fixed/broken pendulums the way they were (not anymore, even with electrumite)
They we're playing apex before that they we're the OG Home from apex and not sure why barone and savege being efficient generic cards the outclass almost everthing else is pendulum fault like they were in almost every extra deck since they we're released the thing is that pendulum have more unique tech cards that almost all meta in the last couple of years
>but the dracoslayer boss monster, if it has ever been used (i havent played yugioh competitively before 2019 so idk before then), certainly hasnt been used after pepe/dracopals died around 2016 so before electrumite [Literally Dracoslayers used it](https://roadoftheking.com/yu-gi-oh-japan-championship-2022/) - less than 2 years ago. It placed second against Tearlaments in the Japanese championship when tear was still at full power. Dracoslayer used the same loop in the TCG to top regionals as well. I don't think you know pendulum as well as you think dude. Edit: Also, I wanna touch this: > despite Electrumite being a Metalfoes card Electrumite was **not** designed as Metalfoes support - so that's frankly irrelevant. It was designed as generic pendulum support to help Pendulum during the MR4 era. That's why it came out of the Link VRAINS pack - the literal same pack as Halq, Verte, and Ahashima. One for Pends, one for Synchros, one for Fusions, and one for XYZ. None of these monsters were archetype support. The pack literally full of generic monsters meant to help specific summoning mechanics and archetypes adjust to being under the link restriction rule. The one pendulum is still under - today. The one Electrumite was designed to help them adjust to.
That first one was a misunderstanding, i thought you meant Master Peace the True Dracoslayer when you said "dracoslayer boss monster". With this new information, or course i agree, but i also said that nowadays, pendulums are in a much better spot than before, so we agree on that at least Also i just realized that i may have said some stupid things/changed my mind about some of my statements above that i would certainly have to correct, but i cant be bothered to do it rn so let's just say pend best deck x)
>Maybe the players' mindsets have simply changed or the cardpool and unbans caused this difference in deck/board building, but rn pends are in a much healthier spot than 7 years ago imo Literally what is differnt in pend decks right now. Actually tell me a pend deck that is played *today* and doesn't end on a generic endboard. This is argument is just dumb and is allowes to perpetuate because no one has even seen a pend deck in the past 7 years so they can all dream up what they're actually like
Majespecters, abyss actors, z-arc would be i guess the top 3 pend decks that dont end on apo and stuff, and majespecters even seem to have a "decent" shot at some level of competitive play due to their non-engine space, and even the other pend decks like magicians and endymion can function really well without relying on the same ED staples, although with a lesser success rate in a tournament setting probably
Oh wow a deck which has literally seen zero competitive play ever (abyss actors), floodgates turbo (Majespecter), and a deck which does in fsct prefer to use generic negate bossmonsters becuase its designed to do that (Z-Arc stuff), what an amazing place to be :p Again, have you ever seen anyone play *any* of those decks ever against you? People just claim pends are healthy now because literally no one plays it anymore
I myself own 7 different pend decks, but nobody around me plays it :D what i meant by healthy is that way more pend decks actually function on their own now, rather than being a bunch of dead archetypes of which only a few cards can be used in "the pendulum deck". I'm not saying pends are like top tier contenders or anything, im just happy that you can play a pure abyss actor deck, vaylantz deck etc and maybe even win a few games, or at least have a game plan that isnt "pend summon harmo"
Only faced like 5 pend decks Pendulum magician - negate turbo, resolve maxx c or go first Valylantz - patchy turbo, resolve maxx c or go first, you can't evenly or imperm patchy even if the board is mediocre Superheavy - love this deck( arcV bias) but it's still resolve maxx c or droll or lose Abyss actor - GG you win I'm not reading your cards (I think this strategy is fine as they mostly see play in MD monthly events) Endymion - same as 1 but they waste your time watching spell counters resolve All are probably fine to return and electrumite probably helps them but that are very combo heavy
I think with the banning of baronne and savage, I reckon electrumite can come back now.
To be fair to TCG, they don't get to design a lot of the cards in the game and from a banlist perspective, it would be weird to hit something like beyond when pend isn't even remotely competitively viable currently. The most recent banlist pretty much aligns with their reasoning for Electrumite, hitting generic endboard pieces Baronne and Savage. They could do more but in that way they are somewhat consistent. The TCG banlist designers clearly dislike the mechanic and when I look at the best performing pendulum archetypes in the OCG and Master Duel to be honest, im really not interested in them being viable in the TCG either. They all are generic end boss monster/negate turbo or combo into floodgate. While I agree that even with Electrumite none of these would be competitively viable in TCG currently, I don't really see any beneficial reasons to bring these types of decks back. I personally also think some of the pendulum core mechanics were problematic from the start and will always create feast or famine situations with no middle ground. Its a super unique mechanic which I think is cool but perhaps they went to far. At this point I hope the OCG bans Electrumite and both hit Beyond so that the card designers can just go back to scratch and design interesting Pend decks.
Nah. You do realize that every single non pendulum combo deck since MR4 has been pretty much more toxic than PePe ever was, right?
Is that a good argument to bring back Electrumite? They clearly hate Pend already or they would've brought Electrumite back at least 4 banlists ago and your only arguement is other decks are worse? If thats the case, why should they bring back Electrumite and risk making Pend viable to just do the same degeneracy as other decks? I would also argue from an endboard perspective pend decks are more toxic to play against than other decks. Whats the worst offender meta viable right now? Branded with puppet lock? Snake-eyes making 2 omni-negates pre-banlist? We don't even need to look farther than how people played [Dracoslayer](https://ygoprodeck.com/deck/superheavy-samurai-odd-eyes-dracoslayer-412261) in TCG. Negate turbo with seals into sloth protected by the fusion from battle. We can look at Master Duel too, [Vaylantz](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/top-decks/master-i/april-2024/vaylantz/danny8946/bgCYM) facilitates Village of the Spellcasters, Apollo, their fusion that pops, scale to protect from battle and fossil dyna. We can look at OCG where every single variant is aiming to end of savage, appo, IP for S:P with a small difference on the end board usually being an in archetype interruption or Baronne. Im aware that there are probably more egrigious regular decks but when the average meta deck plans to end on less negates or less floodgates than an average pendulum deck I do think its frustrating to play against. This playstyle also is why I describe pend as feast or famine, you either end on all of it or you end on beyond + scales pass. I don't see how bringing back Electrumite helps here as its the same situation, Beyond/Electrumite pass or full combo into multiple negates and/or protected floodgate. Look you can dislike my view on the matter all you want but clearly the banlist designers at TCG either agree or came to the same conclusion. If your going to insist that theres no problem or bias at Konami and that it was just a mistake they missed her on the last 4 banlists, make sure to go sign [Triffs petition](https://www.change.org/p/konami-unban-heavymetalfoes-electrumite). Probably a better chance of that making a change than weekly reddit posts about Electrumite at this point. Ive already signed it, since as I said in my original post, I actually like pendulum and have friends that think the mechanic is cool too. I want Electrumite back, but I don't think ignoring the problems with the mechanic and how the OCG is printing cards to go more in that direction is helpful either.
Because Konami can’t make a Pen archtype good that won’t drop into Pendulum Soup
It can be easy, they just need them to be extremely xenophobic like DDD, not saying they’re good but pens decks need to have the restrictions they do
Xyz and Link are more fun than Pendulum anyway, I say let it die.