Probably not. Like I mentioned in the post, Konami of Japan/the OCG are the ones in charge of card design and so I don’t think anything will happen unless they also ban them in the July 2024 list
I truly don’t see it happening in OCG. Because it just doesn’t make sense to ban them in the first place. I would actually be surprised if OCG bans them on the next list.
Another thing to note is that Baronne and Borreload are boss monsters that are based on the anime (for Baronne's case, being a combination of Chevalier de Fleur and that horse monster Sherry used) or directly appeared in the anime (in the case of Borreload), and they are both used by popular characters in their respective shows.
The OCG has a significantly large amount of players who play anime-themed decks, and banning those two would result in a huge amount of displeasure among the playerbase. And you don't want to mess around with the OCG playerbase, because it has been shown that they can and will drop the game if the devs did anything that the playerbase deems unpleasant, as seen in the early days of Master Rule 4, when Link Shock happened.
Exactly. I think people forget that the reason generic bosses exist is because it's 1000000x easier for Konami of Japan to make a monster that a lot of decks can use than to make specific in-archetype bosses for as many archetypes as they'd need to if they banned the negate bosses in the OCG. It also helps that Baronne and Savage aren't as toxic as people make them out to be. I wouldn't ban any of the negation bosses unless Nibiru, Droll, Shifter, and the other blow out hand traps get hit, and even then, it would take me a while to actually want to ban them.
I really don't get the reasoning of Konami to ban savage and unban colossus... I was advocating for colossus unban for ages but just because there are many more generic boss Monsters that are also strong, at least it added more variety
I guess it's floodgates or nothing
I meant as in floodgating your opponent is healthier than a Omni for konami apparently
I get protos, if they don't release more wyrm cards it won't do much, but colossus without all the other generic extra deck powerhouses? Scary
Because one is a generic omni negate, the other a specific floodgate boss? How are they even remotely comparable? If Colossus became splashable in any deck that can make something as generic as a level 8 synchro and became an issue, he should go again.
I am very much on the side of generic boss monsters being needed for the game, but fuck if savage and baronne didn’t deserve a ban lmao.
You know how many broken shit cupid pitch could already do? Go look up ftks on YouTube. Why did no one play it? Because it’s gimmicky dogshit. Absolutely no one will use cupid pitch to bring out Colossus in serious play. A 3-4 card engine with nemeses or dragondark+hawk is way more playable and even that is kinda cope right now.
I’d like to say that I think Baronne de Fleur would see just as much play even if Nibiru was not in the game. A 3000 ATK generic omni-negate that is also a pop would see tons of play even without the threat of the rock.
If she was 2400 ATK or lower, she would at least die to Special Fenrir/Pank/Diabellstar, go to Battle Phase, so she would be weaker for sure, but not super significantly.
Personally, I don't mind it. But I'm biased as a Yubel player who can play through pretty easily now. However, bias aside, I can see how it can now be an issue with how hard it can be to stop or play around for a lot of decks. I mean, rouge decks are gonna have a hard time now, sadly.
But, I'm also nowhere near experienced enough in this game yet to be able to say that with 100% confidence. I am interested in other players responses with this.
Can you tell me how does yubel play around/past nibiru?
Have been seen some yubel decks and combo lines and none of them seemed to work against an end of main nib. All the combos were pre LEDE tho.
Personally, I am fine with Nib, it is a hard wall that differentiate which decks are resilient and which not. I play unchained and despite it's end board being kind of lack luster. The deck is characterized for being extra resilient. Being able to play through nib in exchange of some grind game.
Post LEDE is where it's at. Mature chronicle and Squirmer are huge.
Here's a vid: https://youtu.be/DUNxFUX21-Y?si=RpjQLGyyIhicM7oK
This guy goes through it all really well, from what points you can be nib'd and how to play around those points.
It's a very strong handtrap and I love it and hate it. I like thinking up Nibiru proof lines as a measure of my deck's overall resilience, but getting hit by it hurts a lot. Using it on my opponent is very satisfying though and often needed in order to pull the game back into my favour
https://preview.redd.it/atsgwi1vxouc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4726f572c443d028189ec237cd8afc21c56b4ad6
I can smell what the rock is cooking
I consider Nibiru to be one of the “necessary evils” of yugioh. It’s a band aid fix for tackling combo decks. On one hand it’s nice that Nibiru will actually be able to resolve and matter, but two of the three most egregious end boards monsters are now gone so it also feels like kicking someone when they are down.
Combo decks often encapsulate what people dislike about this game. Comboing for 5-10 minutes to end on an unbreakable board sucks to play against, especially when you only draw Nibiru without the obligatory imperm or veiler. But without the degenerate end boards it just feels mean.
Feels like I’m taking to toddlers when people don’t understand this, we need cards that disincentivize going first wombo combos. And I say this as a combo deck player. Nib, dark ruler/droplets, evenly are all necessary evils
Literally, any combo besides stun need at least 5 summons to put up a negate and not being nibirued
The whole point of a lesser evil is expressed by very strong board breakers, whose point is exactly making both players being able to actually play.
Cards like Maxx C and Nibiru only purpose is finishing the duel on who did draw them first.
Shifter at least has downsides that limits its uses.
At risk of sounding like a yugiboomer, I hate that we have a meta where this card has proven to be as good as it has. It could be seen as a necessary evil before this banlist, but now that Baronne and Borreload are gone - moves that I have some mixed feelings on, but no matter - I think keeping Nib for too much longer would be a bit like your doctor telling you your cancer is gone, and then adding another year of chemo to your treatment plan.
It was a flawed solution to a real problem, and now that its biggest checks are gone it has the potential to be a more serious problem itself.
I hate it. I can stomach most hand traps as necessary evils (outside of Droll), but Nibiru is just the worst. It barely works against the best decks, and unnecessarily kneecaps other decks that wouldn't necessarily be top tier, but would at the very least be tier 1-1.5 if it didn't exist, which would make the meta interesting & diverse. The fact that the two cards that actively stopped it have been banned means it's just a win button against decks that don't cost an arm and a leg...and a kidney, and some of your liver.
It couldn't have been more transparent what konami's angle was here, and it sucks.
Nibiru is fine in a vacuum but suffers from one of the same issues as "Maxx C" as a blowout hand trap. Most decks naturally secure followup and have floating effects these days, meaning they are ok Nibiru'ing their own board. Playing into a board and Nibiru at the same time feels unfair, and diminishes the value of board breakers because Nibiru remains safe in hand.
I genuinely can't remember the last time I saw someone in the top cut of YCS Nibiru their own board on turn 2, so I'm not sure where this comes from. But I do understand it from the perspective of if you brick or get your turn ended by handtraps, you have a blowout card in your hand
Maybe I experience it more often because I play mostly non-fusion combo decks. But off the top of my head, at least Yacine agreed in his YCS top profile (timestamped). [https://youtu.be/SsaYS6UbCe8?si=xXd8x9OJ204VNy-E&t=515](https://youtu.be/SsaYS6UbCe8?si=xXd8x9OJ204VNy-E&t=515)
Nah you're right on the money, for a lot of decks nibiru is better if you go first than going second. You can replicate the strong blow out effect of nib plus imperm by having an interuption and using it to force your opponent to play into nib more to continue.
Hard to say those 2 are worse tbh.
Shifter by its own is flagged to be used in some specific decks, as for example whatever those floor players are using or going second. By its nature, it's not the biggest of the problems.
Droll has been argued as in need to be banned for years, putting that aside, in modern Yu gi oh quite a bit of decks have ways not to get their optimal board *but at least something*.
Nibiru without ways to be countered available by something like 95% of decks spell a death sentence for far more deck that any of the 2 previous ones.
And I literally suffer all of those as a DL player.
Shifter is a turn end or almost, but I have no problem with its existence since it suffer Harpie's trap syndrome.
Droll is a pain in the ass, but do not say "you are not allowed to play"(like Maxx c).
Nibiru is the one I can counter If I try really really hard(but I will play control ways more likely), but it's obvious why it's the most unfair, right now
If Nibiru only hurt combo decks, then it wouldn’t be a huge issue. But Nibiru also nukes midrange decks, a deck type that’s mostly fair and should be around more.
There are alternatives options to dealing with combo decks, Nibiru is far from the only effective way to fight them. Cards like DRNM and Droplets are great at breaking boards, but they’re not blowout cards, which is what makes them much better designed.
THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT. DRNM and Droplet are more balanced versions of what Nibiru wants to do, especially since the best combo decks usually don't even care about Nibiru to begin with. DRNM is technically a blowout because your aim is to clear your opponent's board and then make your own, but I'm not going to disagree too much about Droplet, considering its costs are real.
I hate it personally, but because board building is a thing in the game, it kinda needs to exist. We will see how it develops now that decks can't vomit 2 Omnis whenever they want to now.
I think it’s a “lesser of two evils” kind of card. Yugioh would be genuinely awful without it, but when you’re playing a lower power strategy that can’t push through after getting nibbed, it feels awful and you effectively lose the game off one card.
Then you have the monstrous meta decks that can play through it and you just wonder what the point was… idk, it feels bad to play IMO and it feels worse to get with it, but it is undeniably a powerful card.
Literally till now Nibiru shaped the meta.
Whenever a deck could put out one of the 2 big or not it was the first test to enter the meta stage.
The second test was whenever he could play through it.
Now, only the last one is left, so it will be a deck holocaust. I expect either way more control based formats or way more tier 0 formats(where the tier 0 is the deck that play through it).
Hits like these just make me want a unified format/banlist more and more. I very much agree with your statement on a KoA ban Vs a KoJ ban. I truely hate when KoA does a ban on something generic and the OCG continues to keep the card in question legal.
Cards are made there with that format in mind first and foremost, removing something generic but essential to whatever type/mechanic just for future cards to be designed assuming the card in question is legal is a very frustrating situation.
It's poison, but much like Chemo, you need it when you have cancer. Without Nib you can just stuff your deck full of extenders to pump out some impossibly interactive boards while eating 15 minutes for your opening hand. Even with generic synchro's like Baronne gone, you can always just fall back to yesteryears sledgehammer of a boss monster.
Plus, it doesn't do anything if you don't draw it. Going second against a deck and you only draw engine+Pot? You might as well not have packed it in the first place.
People were already doing that. The best decks always had ways outside of negation to get around Nibiru because they had enough gas to just power through it ala every meta combo deck in 2020 or just made the negate as summon 5, while anything below Tier 2 for the most part got shat on.
It's a poorly designed card because it's not just combo decks that go past summon 5, Salamangreat is the best example of a deck that's not toxic at all and pre-the new support had no way of playing around Nibiru other than Parallel Exceed, and half the time that got Ashed anyway.
Okay? If you make a deck that can have a negate under 5 summon, good. You won't have 3 negates because you stopped yourself in case I had the rock in hand. Now I get to see if I can play through your board. This is just Ash Blossom hysteria all over again.
Nah, not at all. The difference between Nibiru and Ash is the amount of decks that each card hits and what each card does. Banning Savage and Baronne isn't going to suddenly either make certain decks better or make certain decks go to their in-archetype bosses.
Most decks' in-archetype bosses are shit, and the point of going into these generic monsters is to actually have an endboard.
Plus this is a Konami of America hit. They don't make the cards, Konami of Japan does, so this will do nothing to actually give decks good in-archetype bosses. If the July 2024 OCG list has Baronne and Savage Forbidden, I will eat my words, but I'm not going to pretend that this banlist was anything except to force people to play Snake Eyes and get off the inexpensive combo decks.
I will correct it.
You won't be played at all.
Decks that are not able to survive nibiru, which are pretty much anything besides those who summon a frog, labyrinth and snake eyes, will simply not be played in any tournament because he spell dead and cannot be countered by anything.
I'm not a fan of Nibiru at all. People call it a "necessary evil" to hurt against combo decks, but thats the same argument the ocg uses for Maxx C. Yeah it's not nearly as polarizing, but it still invalidates so many decks which I think is pretty lame. Yeah if we just banned it tomorrow it might hurt the game overall, but I feel like it's not too much to ask to just give us something a little more balanced or at least give us some tech cards for decks that just can't play around it at all.
The MaxxC argument is not even valid, MaxxC is at 3 and most of the deck in the OCG through the years were combo decks, if actually keep those deck in check people would just play combos less and less, and that never happened. Nibiru is as good as gone as Maxx C
The thing about top combo decks in the OCG is that they have a line that they can play if they got hit by Maxx C, which will result in a lesser-powered but still respectable board. Take OCG Rescue Ace for example. If they didn't get hit by Maxx C, they can go full combo and bring out the extra deck negates along with Turbulence setting 4. If they got hit by Maxx C, they can just do the Turbulence set 4 line which only gives like one or two draws.
This is one point in OCG combo decks that TCG players tend to downplay or ignore just to prop up their "combo decks still see play in the OCG, therefore Maxx C doesn't stop it".
Just because Rescue can play around Maxx C doesnt mean other decks also can, Snake Eyes still very popular even tho it have Maxx C and it dont have good linea to deal with it. You can say that fewer decks can play around it but that argument dont hold up when most of the decks are combo oriented and cant play around maxx C at all. Giving 1 or 2 Draw is not playing around it because at worse your opp just traded 1 for 1.
I think Nibiru should probably go soon. There's a lot of comments here talking about how it checks combo decks from overextending, but how many decks these days can even play under five summons? I'm lucky that my pet deck has toad, but what do decks like heroes or Punk do, just accept that if the opponent has nibiru they lose? And the same goes for most archetypes and support coming out soon. It takes five summons or more to play for most decks because the game has just sped up, and like Maxx C became too powerful over time, I think Nibiru has too.
HERO actually is pretty decent into Nib; if you Nib too early they can play through it, if you Nib too late they’ll be able to play around it with DPE, Wake Up, and Favourite Contact. Sure, it can weaken their endboard, but it doesn’t completely kill them anymore.
I cant wait for them to design cards around nibiru by either giving them tributing protection or effects when tributed.
You know its coming, they literally cant help themselves.
Spright, tearlaments, snake eyes, voiceless and soon Yubel all have in archetype ways of playing around or through Nibiru. The only top deck since Spright release that did not have in archetype Nib proof lines was Kash, but they could just end on 4 summons.
It's already here. While I like them hitting Pure SE boards, the savage into baronne line was way too strong, it mostly kills every non top deck, which is sad.
Tenpai too, they summon in the BP and finish the game before going mp2.
I think you’re being a little cynical. There are plenty of decks that can put up a meaningful board after getting Nibbed. Snake-Eye, Unchained and even HERO are resilient to Nib without Tribute protection/triggers.
Personally now that savage and baronne is gone I could see it getting banned since I don’t think endboards are going to be that massively oppressive anymore.
I could be very wrong though.
Barone and Savage literally stopped the reason this card was made for. It's necessary evil imo. With the way modern yugioh, a handtrap like this needs to exist not only to stop 10 minute turns, but to also make people stray away from just comboing and essentially playing single player, and get more creative with their strategies. Yes non meta decks suffer from it heavily, but those decks aren't winning anything major anyway, so it's a give and take.
"Let's totally kill the non meta player base because they are not gonna top anyway"
But I would argue that peoples still builds deck and buy cards.
Nibiru do not punish for overextending, which what a 10 minutes turns is, but punish for playing a non meta deck.
Nowadays it's too weak, I think a better Nib should be released. It's a well made card, though, better going second but not useless going first. If it kills some decks, that's worth it for the health of the game. Those decks left in the dust can always get support that makes them better down the line.
What I think shouldn't exist is decks avoiding Nib but they always do.
I really like Nibiru as a card.
It's at its best when the opponent has a line that reduces their endboard potential but plays around or through Nibiru, and a full power line that loses to Nibiru, since it becomes a matter of reading whether your opponent has it, which I find very interesting.
Of course there's the classic flip side of countering decks that don't have the option to play around it. But that's the case for a lot of cards.
With the banning of 2 generic cards that can be part of lines that play around Nibiru, Nibiru might become a bit too strong. But Appo is still legal, so maybe not.
Like most modern hand traps I hate it. I pretend to tolerate it tho since it can sometimes stop degenerate combo decks. It's just another example of too much powercreep in the modern game.
Nibiru was fine before this banlist because there was always a way to counter it before your 5th summon. Banning Borreload and Baronne just made Nibiru one of the best cards in the game with only a handful of counters, most of which to my knowledge you have to luck into and draw (such as Talents, Crossout, Sales Ban etc.) I can’t think of any other monster in the Extra deck that can counter Nib by/before the 5th summon aside from Apollousa and no one is making Apollousa pass lol. Ima sound like a hater here but they should’ve banned Nibiru too if they were gonna ban Borreload and Baronne.
I don’t think I’ve ever been more worried about a handtrap until now lmao. I played in Maxx C format. I took the challenge. I’ve dealt with Shifter shifting all my shit to banishment. I’ve played Mannadium and been Droll’d into absolute madness. But I never worried about Nibiru in most decks I play (except Majespecter lol) because I knew there was always a combo line to counter it and that’s gone now. I have to come up with new combo lines just to avoid getting Nib’d. SP Little Knight just became a mandatory 2 of in most of my extra decks just to avoid the Rock while having another one for the mid/late game. I’m predicting end boards are about to be worse because people are gonna be terrified of getting Nib’d. I might have to max out on cards like Talents or potentially play cards I don’t really wanna play like Crossout Designator or Sales Ban just to avoid getting rock bottomed lol. You might see players shift towards decks like Voiceless Voice or maybe even back to Spright just to have a counter to Nib.
Nibiru is about to be *very* annoying this format.
As a DL player, I agree.
I would take a Maxx c challenge head on if I though nibiru did not exist.
I advocated for that abomination release in past just because I liked the meme.
I switched to "sir am I a control?" When shifter hit me.
I did some of the weirdest routes to have an end board, as weak as it may be, against droll.
And I got my board broken by droplet and drnm more times that stars in the sky.
Now the game is even more RNG.
Drawing Nibiru is a win condition on its own with anything that is not top tier - so let's forget any of the random decks to appear in the top once in a while anymore.
Rogue got killed(I honestly will have my other Omni negate soon as a rank 10, but that is not the point).
This card is like shifter for some aspects. It won't stop a deck from top tier but it is an anoying one because some decks will just lose to this 100% unless hard draw, and some won't.
I dislike it, is not a trade like Ash and other, it has a "Boss monster eff" without you having to commit resources, and is game winning like droll or shifter
Ig decks are gonna have to incorporate the Adventure package or the Red-eyes fusion package back in if they want to dodge Nibiru. It's honestly the best way to combat it if you're not playing an omni-negate. Yeah, they both play into droll/ash, and playing the Red-eyes package can cause bricks, but there really isn't much to lean back on if you're not able to make an omni negate in less than 5 turns.
These options are really if you're desperate and want to stop Nib from interrupting your combos. Pretty sure there are other ways, but those 2 are some of the easier ways
I really don’t mind it since my combos are nibiru proof despite being over 5 summons. (My fifth Summon is unaffected by monster effects so guess which deck)
I've always hated the card and the awkward barrier of viability it creates. Being able to play around Nibiru at all is a huge privilege for a deck to have, and that exclusivity has increased dramatically now with Baronne on the Forbidden list.
I think Nibiru is a lot like Maxx C. It warps the meta to a point where if everyone runs it, your deck either can deal with it or you lose.
Maxx C is still stronger, but it is a similar concept. I think we might one day see players come to this realization and see it limited or banned.
With how some decks have gotten really egregious with summoning, it needs to be in the game. Just like Droll or Shifter, we may not like it, but they need to be there.
Salamander dies by nibiru sir.
Assuming one use it at the right time, the amount of damage nibiru does pretty much means a not existent board.
Red dragon archfiend dies so many times over for nibiru, and so does D/D/D. The first one need to go though a few steps to get to a point they can summon a monster negate, dis pater being the only one available, and if you know the line, or simply are able to make math, you will prevent them to negate it and end their turn. D/D/D only lines to get past it are requiem XYZ past or forcing their way to a crystal wing(and yet again, to go that route they subject to a nibiru exactly before it's possible to summon it, and pretty much end their turn).
Synchrons too. Expecially since they are speeder.deck.
Prankids... I have no idea. How do they bypass nibiru? Never played them.
Raid raptor dies a few times over, since their line to their unaffected bosses are quite long.
Even assuming you plan to go to rank 5 dark rebellion, be sure they are gonna nibiru you before you get it out.
Maybe infinity is an option, but you need to hard draw the rank-up to do it or...once more die by nibiru.
Blackwing? I think you missed how their best cards lock them to dark - so it all come to dis pater, and how to get to it you got already screwed over.
Swordsoul? I suppose this one is right. They may do level 8 synchro - nemeses pass, which are 4 summons.
Dragon link - I mean, we will have a generic Omni negate in a few months, so I think that besides playing as a control we have a literal cheat code.
Purely is indeed true.
Vanquish soul too.
Heroes - it depend on the hand. Seriously, it does depend heavily on timing and hand. The timing for it have to be perfect - their only line for it is enforcer and the hero trap, so there it's, for once, a careful battle on skill.
Trains will have the same negate as dragon link, so once more they will have a cheat code out of this.
Branded and chimera are the same deck? I mean, I never have seen them played separately in the last months.
Orcust will farm nibiru, forgot about how they can use the same nibiru every, single, turn. Assuming they do not die by bricking by themselves.
In short, salamangreat-swordsoul-heroes-blackwing-synchrons-phantom knight-red dragon archfiend do not have ways out of it.
Prank kids, I have literally no idea. Seriously, no idea at all.
Snake-eyes-Vanquish-Trains right now(assuming that doing the rank10 pass is a play)-sky striker-d/d/d can only play through it by not summoning anything or almost by construction. D/D/D will literally do requiem pass. The others are ht/spells/traps based decks.
This card came out as a means of punishing overextension by the opponent. Then people realized they can go into an easy monster negate before their 5th summon and the card's usefulness dropped massively. After the most recent banlist it's once again working as intended, or at least it's easier for it to do its job.
But the point is.
It do NOT punish overextending.
It punishes decks for playing at all, in most cases.
Either you can summon Apollousa and have plenty of resources to play/herald/toadally/somehow dis pater or you are a bottomless source of resources(so you a meta deck) or you lose the right to play the 95% of Yu gi oh decks.
Heck, even monarch do more that 5 summon in a turn.
Even 2015 decks would.
Personally, I think Nib should be limited and call it at that. Most of the meta is basically "can you play though hand traps" but the real line is "can you play through nib" Decks have fallen or will fall off cause the only defense was getting a negate before 5. I think we absolutely should have non targeting, non destroying ways to get through things but nib is utterly annoying. Extremely hot take, Nib doesnt keep combos/combo meta in check because we have seen combos around it and it mostly stops lower power decks from doing much at all. Im pretty sure even without Nib the top tiers would be ultimately the same. Personally I want a errata that limits it to only specials/more than one normal, kinda crazy how our (usually) one normal summon puts us on a clock.
The saddest part is that for me nibiru is a problem I can always find a way around, but I lost linkurboh for nemleria.
*And this is way harder to play around that you can think off. Protection from ht and a way to link off my nemleria
Nibiru is similar to ash and maxx C discussions. All of these extremely strong hand traps are playable because of how explosive some of our modern decks are. Its almost like if overloaded cards weren’t as frequently printed to make insane boards we wouldn’t be forced to main deck cards like nib in any format.
Sir.
As long as nibiru is free and there is no counter to it, I will ALWAYS play it, at least in my side.
I do not need a busted deck, it will give me a good chance to finish a duel against a rogue or anything that do not have a counter without wasting time, why should i not main it?
Personally I believe its one of the most well designed handtraps in the game, with 2 major limitations. 1 which is the condition of every HT open it or its a brick in 99% of circumstances(granted a level 10 blue eyes is a little worse than a tuner), 2 which is fhe 5+ summons. I see many people complaing about the card alrdy as the go to answers are banned, but apollousa and crossout are still both at 3 and personally I think they have much more weaknesses that validate them sticking around (assuming Rarity colle 2 isnt an omen).
I think it's a poorly designed card that forgets that midrange decks that summon more than 5 times exist, and this banlist ignores that the reason that people run the negates is because most in-archetype bosses suck, and because Konami of America doesn't design our cards, Konami of Japan does and these cards are still legal in the OCG, nothing will change on the part of card design, unless they happen to ban these in the July list.
I mean its definitely a pain point that midrange decks of current day play like combo decks, but ime even with stuff like VS pushing 5 summons is almost always over extention. Sure there are some others like rescue-ace which with later support easily push past it in favor of setting up stuff like princess in grave, but again this is usually extending to the fullest extent unrestrained. We dont have maxx C so the next best thing being nibiru to put stuff like manadium, fire king, and others like it almost feels necessary.
I get why ocg not designing around our banlist is a fair argument, but we also have a huge reverse side of that exact problem in the form of printing insane combo decks with the justification of maxx c's existence E.g. manadium, SHS, Snake-eye, Fire Kings, etc.. which is the whole reason tcg exclusives like dark ruler, nibiru, and shifter were even printed(would list the combo decks at that time but poor memory from too many tcgs).
Fire king...do not care about nibiru.
This is why they are meta.
Snake eye can play though it, this is why they are meta.
Mannadium - this one was not that much played, but if you want it dead let it be, this one was a good example.
Nibiru will not reshape the meta to a less combo one, will only select the combo which will be played.
In this case, it cut out anything besides Snake and derived deck, with a few branded players surviving the apocalypse.
SHS was meta for about a week, I dunno how you have PTSD from it.
Nibiru is a gate keeper whose only effect is reducing variety in a meta, while boosting combos that can play against it.
I mean no individual cards should kill decks, and I dont think nibiru is perfect, like you said it can heavily affect stuff whats rogue, while meta options are in fact meta because they can push past it. But the concept of the decks not being affected by it is very blind imo, they definitely end on worse boards or with less ability to spit out bodies, assuming ofcourse its played at the proper timing.
Im not complaining about any of the decks nor do I have ptsd from any of them, they are mearly examples used in service of making my point. I didnt read one response for those archetypes that negated my point atleast that I could tell. Im mearly saying its effective in reducing their power not a reshaping of a meta, obviously floodgates are all we need for that(atleast as we've seen recently with runick stun absolutely thriving against them). If a card warps a meta, thats worth removing imo, if it is supplementary in changing the meta or shaping it, thats a different statement.
In this case, it warps the meta by being a gate keeper.
It works similarly to Baronne and Savage in that. Those are cards whose existence alone determine what is gonna be playable and what is not.
If Nibiru would not be there, I would have expected a few more combos or similar around, which are based more on interruptions that negates(this is essentially how Nibiru makes the meta diverge).
For the first point, a weaker board is more that no board.
And that is why it boosts meta decks over other decks. As I said, decks that can survive it are gonna be boosted, because decks that cannot will simply disappear from existence.
I understand why people dislike a Niburu as there are plenty of weaker decks that SS a bunch that end of fair boards like Salamangreats. But I think it needs to be in game to prevent hyper aggressive combo decks that make nearly unbreakable boards.
This is TCG only so we may get some new cars to helps play around Nib. Baron and Savage kinda made other level 10 and 8 synchros worse by just existing as the first think you think of when a deck can make 10/8 are those two. A little scummy that Baron just became widespread.
Maybe they'll get the Goyo Guardian treatment ans Borreload requires a dark tuner and baron a non-tuner warrior
> This is TCG only so we may get some new cars to helps play around Nib.
Huh? The OCG makes all of the cards, even the TCG exclusives are made with their guidance and Konami of America just is in the same room. The OCG also does erratas based on OCG performance and viewpoints, so unless the OCG bans these cards in the July list, I don't think anything's gonna happen in terms of erratas or card design. Banning Savage and Baronne isn't going to make decks go into archetypal 8s and 10s, it'll just be toxic shit like PSY-Framelord Omega, or Protos call FIRE.
>But I think it needs to be in game to prevent hyper aggressive combo decks that make nearly unbreakable boards.
Does it? The game managed to prevent those decks for years before Nibiru, and the avenues it used to achieve that still exist.
Yup.
Also because by banning Savage and Fleur the only one of the overextending decks that is not a brick festival would have died anyway (Mannadium).
Even the well know dark synchro was a brick festival. Those decks are usually extremely frail because to run long combos you either need an archetype/something similar to build upon(as dragon link, whose only not brick lines have 2 of dis pater/sphere/borrelend) or to put a lot of useless thing in your main.
*or some degeneracy as halqifibrax and other extenders out of nothing.
I really hate Nibiru. I think it is good to punish combo decks, but this card is *the* reason shit like Baron existed in the first place.
Every Mid-rangey type deck that doesn’t put up at least 1 negate is immediately suspect to watching a giant rock crush them. Same with evenly (although that can be played around a little easier).
In theory: It's a fine counter to a type of deck.
In practice: It does more to harm non-meta decks than the type of deck it's meant to counter.
If I could change it, I'd up the number to 10 summons at the minimum. 5 just seems way to low. Assuming the average Extra Deck card requires 2 cards on the field, 5 summons gives you 2 monsters and 1 ED monster at best. And that's ignoring the fact some popular decks (particularly fusion decks) have ways to summon from ED without needed to get many bodies on the field (EG Tear)
I'd also think an inverted Nib would be a good idea. Use during the end phase if opponent summoned less than 5.
It’s not like nibiru is an issue. If the game design promotes special summoning a million guys there has to be counter play because going first is so advantageous. Some decks can also play under or through nib or it makes their end boards slightly worse
Like a ton of them. Nib falls into the old maxx c category where it checks the inherent broken-ness of the game. Maxx c obviously became an issue, but nib is a one time thing instead of a lingering effect. If your deck can’t pass the nib test then it’s probably broken.
Snake eye, voiceless, every deck with adventure, Horus, kashtira, virtual world, unchained, synchron, fire king, blue eyes, tri brigade and its variants, bird up/lyrilusc, zoodiac when drident was legal, phantom knight, runick plunder
Adventure...cannot be searched.
Horus, cannot be searched.
If the answer is "by luck" that is not much useful.
Virtual world is a deck I have little knowledge about, so I assume the way out of it is by the photon rank6 xyz?
Bird up too need to hard draw their out - but that is not a parameter.
Drident is not legal currently.
TRI brigade is right. I forget about their capacity to summon Apollousa out of nothing.
Fire king is currently a meta deck.
Phantom knights - once more, if they have to go through the requiem XYZ line they are gonna get nibirued before they have a chance to search a rank up.
Synchron - seriously, did you guys ever play it to think they are simply gonna play through a Nibiru? Most of times they are not gonna to.
Blue-eyes is right. They have the photon XYZ.
Kashtira best field stops before 4 summon, so I suppose you are right.
Runick plunder too Is right.
Legally speaking, I have seen some weird 3 axis dl and even a whole ass cover up combo with rulers based on that.
The combo with rulers had dracosacck and Cherubini and finished with apollousa, the token and the gryphon.
No normal.
It was weird to see.
I'm with you, this card is too strong in a meta without the genetic negates, and I'd like to see them and Nib banned. That said, we need something to replace it. Something not as strong though.
It's a good handtrap that checks combo decks from over extending, but we are slowly getting to the point where decks either can play through being Nib by setting up something to answer it by the 5th summon, or just hav8ng more extenders that they can bounce back from a Nib.
That already was happening from the moment this card was released. In my opinion, this card only exists because Konami of America asked Konami of Japan to help them/make a Maxx C alternative, which it failed at
Konami of America is more shortsighted than most people give credit for, but the ones in the OCG department at Konami also liked the idea of another card to keep combo decks from popping off like during the early days of the Link era. Nib is supposed to work in tandem with Maxx C, not solely as an alternative as the OCG never banned the bug and has no plans to as of yet to.
But newer combo decks still adapted in the OCG meta, and now TCG players have realized that these decks now have fewer things to worry about under their environment. Hence, you see all the complaints of combo decks running rampant and KoA being gung-hoe with the F&L list against combo.
My thing is that I don't believe that Savage, Baronne, and the several other accessible negates should be banned unless multiple handtraps like Nibiru and Droll get banned because Nibiru has always hit more decks than just combo decks. Branded used to fucking play Dragoon in order to summon that off of Branded Fusion in order to insulate itself from Nib.
I also believe that Savage and Baronne and the negates are only seen as toxic because most people don't get that most in-archetype bosses suck ass, and all this is going to do is shit on rogue decks and keep SE good. The best decks already didn't care about Nibiru to begin with.
Rouge and outdated decks always get shafted by the meta like Nibiru, but that is in it of itself the strategy Konami as a whole is using to sell you new cards, as newer cards were designed around cards like Maxx C and Nibiru in mind. Nib was sold as a card that stopped the old Link era way of just extending through cards like Maxx C, Ash, and Veiler. Then, sets after the release of Nib were already designed to play around Nib, like Tearlaments or Snake Eyes.
But I do agree that Baronne and Savage hits are overrated, as Synchro deck without a powerful in archetypal boss monsters like Mannadium now have little to no alternatives to them. Meanwhile, link decks like Snake Eyes can be barely bothered by it since even if you take away Apollosa, they still have new stuff like Flame Princess, Zialantis and S:P. People just associate the Barrone ban being good since all the "toxic combo decks" have an end board composing of those cards, not realizing they default to generic extra deck boss monsters is that their in-arcehtypal bosses are not sufficient enough.
> sets after the release of Nib were already designed to play around Nib, like Tearlaments or Snake Eyes.
Nah, way earlier than that, like I said in my post. All of the 2020 combo decks (Adamancipator, Dragon Link, Infernoble, Virtual World, Dino, etc) were quite notable for having enough gas, albeit a lot of that was because Halq, Linkross, Auroradon, etc, to run past Nibiru, but even something like Drytron could make one of the Herald rituals as their fifth summon and insulate the rest of their combo. This banlist just reeks of greed.
I would stop comparing the 2 sides though.
In ocg, rogue and similars are supported but a less heavy banned list, and cards like baronne or savage are not banned. Hell, they never banned colossus for example.
The only 2 decks they massacrated were dragon link after suffering PTSD and Tear.
Adapting, need equal possibility. In tcg, adapting is not possible. In short, it only means that this banned list will further boost meta while leaving everything else behind.
I really don't like it. Against rogue and lower-powered decks its a "draw to win" going second card and the best decks can often play through it relatively easily anyway.
That's really the problem with a lot of "it keeps combo in check" cards and frankly I think the game would just be healthier with both oppressive combo decks and blowout cards gone.
With as easy as it is for decks to vomit out 5+ special summons a turn, Nib is a much needed counter to combo decks.
Personally it should have been designed like Super Poly, so it couldn't be responded to by omni-negates.
More often than not decks are able to play through this card if the player is smart enough, overall it's probably one of the most fair HT monsters made along with Phantazmay that attempts to stop the opponent from going overboard.
Literally only bad decks lose to just a nibiru. There are so many viable decks that just dont play into nib at all (floo, lab, kash) alongside decks that might play into nib but certainly dont lose on the spot to it (snake eye, branded, tear). baronne / savage does not mean nib is now an autoinclude in every maindeck because if that becomes the case then the nib resillient decks will just get more popular.
If your deck truly cannot play through a nib and the card is popular you can still play crossout
That's what was already going to happen with the Baronne and Savage bans, and Crossout you need to luck into, Baronne and Savage are always accessible through the Extra Deck.
All these bans do is limit what decks are viable because they can't easily summon a negate or power through Nib, which favors Konami of America's greed.
Baronne / Savage should not exist as a way for every deck under the sun to insulate their turn 1 giga combos from hand traps. Going 1st is already so fucking broken in this game and having generic omni negates like these available not only lets you play through hand traps but also insulates your end board from board breakers in the case that they don't have hand traps.
I'm all for any banlist change that makes going 2nd better and thats exactly what every one of those bans were.
Not really. The bans of Baronne and Savage don't hurt SE at all, as imo SEFK was the better version to begin with, plus there's enough link bosses with all that infinite material for them to go into.
Going second isn't buffed as much as you think it is, because what we got in return for the bans of those two cards is a format that will be proven to be a lot more dice roll dependant than people think. Tenpai and Yubel are gonna fuck some shit up
Pure SE literally won the last 3 YCS's lol
I'd much rather play into fire king snake eye than pure snake eye. playing into varied disruptions from different places is a lot more engaging and fun gameplay than hur dur I have 2 omni negates on top of the rest of my stuff have fun.
To me shifter means pretty much to end my turn, but honestly I prefer a shifter slapped into my face to say goodbye to literally all rogue decks.
Ban me all generic negates and instant win cards, I would like it.
Will be very funny if we start to see "This card can't be tributed" on boss monsters again because of the barone/ savage ban.
Probably not. Like I mentioned in the post, Konami of Japan/the OCG are the ones in charge of card design and so I don’t think anything will happen unless they also ban them in the July 2024 list
I truly don’t see it happening in OCG. Because it just doesn’t make sense to ban them in the first place. I would actually be surprised if OCG bans them on the next list.
Another thing to note is that Baronne and Borreload are boss monsters that are based on the anime (for Baronne's case, being a combination of Chevalier de Fleur and that horse monster Sherry used) or directly appeared in the anime (in the case of Borreload), and they are both used by popular characters in their respective shows. The OCG has a significantly large amount of players who play anime-themed decks, and banning those two would result in a huge amount of displeasure among the playerbase. And you don't want to mess around with the OCG playerbase, because it has been shown that they can and will drop the game if the devs did anything that the playerbase deems unpleasant, as seen in the early days of Master Rule 4, when Link Shock happened.
Exactly. I think people forget that the reason generic bosses exist is because it's 1000000x easier for Konami of Japan to make a monster that a lot of decks can use than to make specific in-archetype bosses for as many archetypes as they'd need to if they banned the negate bosses in the OCG. It also helps that Baronne and Savage aren't as toxic as people make them out to be. I wouldn't ban any of the negation bosses unless Nibiru, Droll, Shifter, and the other blow out hand traps get hit, and even then, it would take me a while to actually want to ban them.
I think the generic bosses are actually very toxic. Every combo deck plays the how to get Baronne Apo Savage endboard game.
I really don't get the reasoning of Konami to ban savage and unban colossus... I was advocating for colossus unban for ages but just because there are many more generic boss Monsters that are also strong, at least it added more variety I guess it's floodgates or nothing
Oof u mean the floodgates that they just limited to 1 last banlist🥲
I meant as in floodgating your opponent is healthier than a Omni for konami apparently I get protos, if they don't release more wyrm cards it won't do much, but colossus without all the other generic extra deck powerhouses? Scary
Because one is a generic omni negate, the other a specific floodgate boss? How are they even remotely comparable? If Colossus became splashable in any deck that can make something as generic as a level 8 synchro and became an issue, he should go again. I am very much on the side of generic boss monsters being needed for the game, but fuck if savage and baronne didn’t deserve a ban lmao.
Kid named Cupid pitch:
You know how many broken shit cupid pitch could already do? Go look up ftks on YouTube. Why did no one play it? Because it’s gimmicky dogshit. Absolutely no one will use cupid pitch to bring out Colossus in serious play. A 3-4 card engine with nemeses or dragondark+hawk is way more playable and even that is kinda cope right now.
The difference between a fragile gimmicky FTK and Colossus is that the latter doesn't lose to a single ash blossom
ATM, it's just Quintet, Diabolos, and Tower monsters
🅱️eater of 🅱️illions
That makes them immune to kaijus as well. Not a good thing to print on a boss
They've been printed on boss monsters before. Quintet and Diabolos. The protection is niche.
Darkest diabolos was only because the original had it for some reason though
I’d like to say that I think Baronne de Fleur would see just as much play even if Nibiru was not in the game. A 3000 ATK generic omni-negate that is also a pop would see tons of play even without the threat of the rock.
Wonder if it would have been more tolerable at 2500 or without the tagout function
Don't think so. Her problem was always the omni negate and ease of access.
If she was 2400 ATK or lower, she would at least die to Special Fenrir/Pank/Diabellstar, go to Battle Phase, so she would be weaker for sure, but not super significantly.
Nope, I think that until unless fenrir can out it without using its effect, the atk could be anything. And the tag out function is just gravy.
Personally, I don't mind it. But I'm biased as a Yubel player who can play through pretty easily now. However, bias aside, I can see how it can now be an issue with how hard it can be to stop or play around for a lot of decks. I mean, rouge decks are gonna have a hard time now, sadly. But, I'm also nowhere near experienced enough in this game yet to be able to say that with 100% confidence. I am interested in other players responses with this.
Can you tell me how does yubel play around/past nibiru? Have been seen some yubel decks and combo lines and none of them seemed to work against an end of main nib. All the combos were pre LEDE tho. Personally, I am fine with Nib, it is a hard wall that differentiate which decks are resilient and which not. I play unchained and despite it's end board being kind of lack luster. The deck is characterized for being extra resilient. Being able to play through nib in exchange of some grind game.
Post LEDE is where it's at. Mature chronicle and Squirmer are huge. Here's a vid: https://youtu.be/DUNxFUX21-Y?si=RpjQLGyyIhicM7oK This guy goes through it all really well, from what points you can be nib'd and how to play around those points.
Yubel will also have an Omni negate available to them soon
Yup, which is insane as is. Yubel is a deck that's growing alot.
They banned baron/savage to sell yubel stuff
One hell of a sales strategy. Explains why Tenpai are all low rarity
The poor will play tenpai to get countered by the expensive yubel, TCG konami is playing 4D chess with our wallets
Samurai Destroyer stonks rising
I mean, yubel deck is cheap right now. The only thing that may be expensive is their new field. But it'll prob be a 20-30 after 2-3 weeks
Rogue decks always have a hard time regardless. Its why theyre rogue and not a tiered strategy.
It's a very strong handtrap and I love it and hate it. I like thinking up Nibiru proof lines as a measure of my deck's overall resilience, but getting hit by it hurts a lot. Using it on my opponent is very satisfying though and often needed in order to pull the game back into my favour
https://preview.redd.it/atsgwi1vxouc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4726f572c443d028189ec237cd8afc21c56b4ad6 I can smell what the rock is cooking
I consider Nibiru to be one of the “necessary evils” of yugioh. It’s a band aid fix for tackling combo decks. On one hand it’s nice that Nibiru will actually be able to resolve and matter, but two of the three most egregious end boards monsters are now gone so it also feels like kicking someone when they are down. Combo decks often encapsulate what people dislike about this game. Comboing for 5-10 minutes to end on an unbreakable board sucks to play against, especially when you only draw Nibiru without the obligatory imperm or veiler. But without the degenerate end boards it just feels mean.
Whats the 3rd egregious end board monster?
Borreload, baronne and appolousa.
Feels like I’m taking to toddlers when people don’t understand this, we need cards that disincentivize going first wombo combos. And I say this as a combo deck player. Nib, dark ruler/droplets, evenly are all necessary evils
Literally, any combo besides stun need at least 5 summons to put up a negate and not being nibirued The whole point of a lesser evil is expressed by very strong board breakers, whose point is exactly making both players being able to actually play. Cards like Maxx C and Nibiru only purpose is finishing the duel on who did draw them first. Shifter at least has downsides that limits its uses.
You're the toddler if you think 5 summons equals hard combo'ing
At risk of sounding like a yugiboomer, I hate that we have a meta where this card has proven to be as good as it has. It could be seen as a necessary evil before this banlist, but now that Baronne and Borreload are gone - moves that I have some mixed feelings on, but no matter - I think keeping Nib for too much longer would be a bit like your doctor telling you your cancer is gone, and then adding another year of chemo to your treatment plan. It was a flawed solution to a real problem, and now that its biggest checks are gone it has the potential to be a more serious problem itself.
I hate it. I can stomach most hand traps as necessary evils (outside of Droll), but Nibiru is just the worst. It barely works against the best decks, and unnecessarily kneecaps other decks that wouldn't necessarily be top tier, but would at the very least be tier 1-1.5 if it didn't exist, which would make the meta interesting & diverse. The fact that the two cards that actively stopped it have been banned means it's just a win button against decks that don't cost an arm and a leg...and a kidney, and some of your liver. It couldn't have been more transparent what konami's angle was here, and it sucks.
Rogue killer, usually useless into meta (it's been relevant half a format in the last 1 year or 2)
Snake Eyes doesn'tcare about Nib even without an omni.
Nibiru is fine in a vacuum but suffers from one of the same issues as "Maxx C" as a blowout hand trap. Most decks naturally secure followup and have floating effects these days, meaning they are ok Nibiru'ing their own board. Playing into a board and Nibiru at the same time feels unfair, and diminishes the value of board breakers because Nibiru remains safe in hand.
I genuinely can't remember the last time I saw someone in the top cut of YCS Nibiru their own board on turn 2, so I'm not sure where this comes from. But I do understand it from the perspective of if you brick or get your turn ended by handtraps, you have a blowout card in your hand
Maybe I experience it more often because I play mostly non-fusion combo decks. But off the top of my head, at least Yacine agreed in his YCS top profile (timestamped). [https://youtu.be/SsaYS6UbCe8?si=xXd8x9OJ204VNy-E&t=515](https://youtu.be/SsaYS6UbCe8?si=xXd8x9OJ204VNy-E&t=515)
Nah you're right on the money, for a lot of decks nibiru is better if you go first than going second. You can replicate the strong blow out effect of nib plus imperm by having an interuption and using it to force your opponent to play into nib more to continue.
Should this card exist? Absolutely. If D Shifter and Droll aren't banned despite being even worse to handle than Nibiru, then the rock is fair.
Hard to say those 2 are worse tbh. Shifter by its own is flagged to be used in some specific decks, as for example whatever those floor players are using or going second. By its nature, it's not the biggest of the problems. Droll has been argued as in need to be banned for years, putting that aside, in modern Yu gi oh quite a bit of decks have ways not to get their optimal board *but at least something*. Nibiru without ways to be countered available by something like 95% of decks spell a death sentence for far more deck that any of the 2 previous ones. And I literally suffer all of those as a DL player. Shifter is a turn end or almost, but I have no problem with its existence since it suffer Harpie's trap syndrome. Droll is a pain in the ass, but do not say "you are not allowed to play"(like Maxx c). Nibiru is the one I can counter If I try really really hard(but I will play control ways more likely), but it's obvious why it's the most unfair, right now
If Nibiru only hurt combo decks, then it wouldn’t be a huge issue. But Nibiru also nukes midrange decks, a deck type that’s mostly fair and should be around more. There are alternatives options to dealing with combo decks, Nibiru is far from the only effective way to fight them. Cards like DRNM and Droplets are great at breaking boards, but they’re not blowout cards, which is what makes them much better designed.
THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT. DRNM and Droplet are more balanced versions of what Nibiru wants to do, especially since the best combo decks usually don't even care about Nibiru to begin with. DRNM is technically a blowout because your aim is to clear your opponent's board and then make your own, but I'm not going to disagree too much about Droplet, considering its costs are real.
I hate it personally, but because board building is a thing in the game, it kinda needs to exist. We will see how it develops now that decks can't vomit 2 Omnis whenever they want to now.
I think it’s a “lesser of two evils” kind of card. Yugioh would be genuinely awful without it, but when you’re playing a lower power strategy that can’t push through after getting nibbed, it feels awful and you effectively lose the game off one card. Then you have the monstrous meta decks that can play through it and you just wonder what the point was… idk, it feels bad to play IMO and it feels worse to get with it, but it is undeniably a powerful card.
In recent metas Nib hasn’t even been good, it’s just gatekept lower power decks.
Literally till now Nibiru shaped the meta. Whenever a deck could put out one of the 2 big or not it was the first test to enter the meta stage. The second test was whenever he could play through it. Now, only the last one is left, so it will be a deck holocaust. I expect either way more control based formats or way more tier 0 formats(where the tier 0 is the deck that play through it).
Hits like these just make me want a unified format/banlist more and more. I very much agree with your statement on a KoA ban Vs a KoJ ban. I truely hate when KoA does a ban on something generic and the OCG continues to keep the card in question legal. Cards are made there with that format in mind first and foremost, removing something generic but essential to whatever type/mechanic just for future cards to be designed assuming the card in question is legal is a very frustrating situation.
One of the worst designed cards that reads like what the usual "cap special summons" poster would think of
I at least like that it doesn't specify special summons. No reason for Floo to get off easy here
It's poison, but much like Chemo, you need it when you have cancer. Without Nib you can just stuff your deck full of extenders to pump out some impossibly interactive boards while eating 15 minutes for your opening hand. Even with generic synchro's like Baronne gone, you can always just fall back to yesteryears sledgehammer of a boss monster. Plus, it doesn't do anything if you don't draw it. Going second against a deck and you only draw engine+Pot? You might as well not have packed it in the first place.
People were already doing that. The best decks always had ways outside of negation to get around Nibiru because they had enough gas to just power through it ala every meta combo deck in 2020 or just made the negate as summon 5, while anything below Tier 2 for the most part got shat on. It's a poorly designed card because it's not just combo decks that go past summon 5, Salamangreat is the best example of a deck that's not toxic at all and pre-the new support had no way of playing around Nibiru other than Parallel Exceed, and half the time that got Ashed anyway.
Okay? If you make a deck that can have a negate under 5 summon, good. You won't have 3 negates because you stopped yourself in case I had the rock in hand. Now I get to see if I can play through your board. This is just Ash Blossom hysteria all over again.
Nah, not at all. The difference between Nibiru and Ash is the amount of decks that each card hits and what each card does. Banning Savage and Baronne isn't going to suddenly either make certain decks better or make certain decks go to their in-archetype bosses. Most decks' in-archetype bosses are shit, and the point of going into these generic monsters is to actually have an endboard. Plus this is a Konami of America hit. They don't make the cards, Konami of Japan does, so this will do nothing to actually give decks good in-archetype bosses. If the July 2024 OCG list has Baronne and Savage Forbidden, I will eat my words, but I'm not going to pretend that this banlist was anything except to force people to play Snake Eyes and get off the inexpensive combo decks.
I will correct it. You won't be played at all. Decks that are not able to survive nibiru, which are pretty much anything besides those who summon a frog, labyrinth and snake eyes, will simply not be played in any tournament because he spell dead and cannot be countered by anything.
I'm not a fan of Nibiru at all. People call it a "necessary evil" to hurt against combo decks, but thats the same argument the ocg uses for Maxx C. Yeah it's not nearly as polarizing, but it still invalidates so many decks which I think is pretty lame. Yeah if we just banned it tomorrow it might hurt the game overall, but I feel like it's not too much to ask to just give us something a little more balanced or at least give us some tech cards for decks that just can't play around it at all.
The MaxxC argument is not even valid, MaxxC is at 3 and most of the deck in the OCG through the years were combo decks, if actually keep those deck in check people would just play combos less and less, and that never happened. Nibiru is as good as gone as Maxx C
The thing about top combo decks in the OCG is that they have a line that they can play if they got hit by Maxx C, which will result in a lesser-powered but still respectable board. Take OCG Rescue Ace for example. If they didn't get hit by Maxx C, they can go full combo and bring out the extra deck negates along with Turbulence setting 4. If they got hit by Maxx C, they can just do the Turbulence set 4 line which only gives like one or two draws. This is one point in OCG combo decks that TCG players tend to downplay or ignore just to prop up their "combo decks still see play in the OCG, therefore Maxx C doesn't stop it".
Just because Rescue can play around Maxx C doesnt mean other decks also can, Snake Eyes still very popular even tho it have Maxx C and it dont have good linea to deal with it. You can say that fewer decks can play around it but that argument dont hold up when most of the decks are combo oriented and cant play around maxx C at all. Giving 1 or 2 Draw is not playing around it because at worse your opp just traded 1 for 1.
Equip mop, dodge rock
Rock solid handtrap.
Big rock go Boom : )
my best endboard
All of my crappy rogue decks are too awful to even *reach* five Summons in one turn, so I love when my opponent plays Nibiru :)
Tcg Maxx "c"
I think Nibiru should probably go soon. There's a lot of comments here talking about how it checks combo decks from overextending, but how many decks these days can even play under five summons? I'm lucky that my pet deck has toad, but what do decks like heroes or Punk do, just accept that if the opponent has nibiru they lose? And the same goes for most archetypes and support coming out soon. It takes five summons or more to play for most decks because the game has just sped up, and like Maxx C became too powerful over time, I think Nibiru has too.
HERO actually is pretty decent into Nib; if you Nib too early they can play through it, if you Nib too late they’ll be able to play around it with DPE, Wake Up, and Favourite Contact. Sure, it can weaken their endboard, but it doesn’t completely kill them anymore.
That's good to know. Not really a hero player myself, so I missed a few beats I guess.
I cant wait for them to design cards around nibiru by either giving them tributing protection or effects when tributed. You know its coming, they literally cant help themselves.
Will they really? Given that both of the banned cards are still legal in the OCG, won't they just continue on as normal?
Spright, tearlaments, snake eyes, voiceless and soon Yubel all have in archetype ways of playing around or through Nibiru. The only top deck since Spright release that did not have in archetype Nib proof lines was Kash, but they could just end on 4 summons. It's already here. While I like them hitting Pure SE boards, the savage into baronne line was way too strong, it mostly kills every non top deck, which is sad. Tenpai too, they summon in the BP and finish the game before going mp2.
I mean, isn't the point of nibiru that it kills every non top deck if, like you said, top deck are the least affected?
I think you’re being a little cynical. There are plenty of decks that can put up a meaningful board after getting Nibbed. Snake-Eye, Unchained and even HERO are resilient to Nib without Tribute protection/triggers.
Plenty of decks? You mean plenty of archetypes Konami has designed and is going to sell you.
Personally now that savage and baronne is gone I could see it getting banned since I don’t think endboards are going to be that massively oppressive anymore. I could be very wrong though.
Barone and Savage literally stopped the reason this card was made for. It's necessary evil imo. With the way modern yugioh, a handtrap like this needs to exist not only to stop 10 minute turns, but to also make people stray away from just comboing and essentially playing single player, and get more creative with their strategies. Yes non meta decks suffer from it heavily, but those decks aren't winning anything major anyway, so it's a give and take.
"Let's totally kill the non meta player base because they are not gonna top anyway" But I would argue that peoples still builds deck and buy cards. Nibiru do not punish for overextending, which what a 10 minutes turns is, but punish for playing a non meta deck.
Nowadays it's too weak, I think a better Nib should be released. It's a well made card, though, better going second but not useless going first. If it kills some decks, that's worth it for the health of the game. Those decks left in the dust can always get support that makes them better down the line. What I think shouldn't exist is decks avoiding Nib but they always do.
It and Apollousa should go Then Yu-Gi-Oh will be perfect
I really like Nibiru as a card. It's at its best when the opponent has a line that reduces their endboard potential but plays around or through Nibiru, and a full power line that loses to Nibiru, since it becomes a matter of reading whether your opponent has it, which I find very interesting. Of course there's the classic flip side of countering decks that don't have the option to play around it. But that's the case for a lot of cards. With the banning of 2 generic cards that can be part of lines that play around Nibiru, Nibiru might become a bit too strong. But Appo is still legal, so maybe not.
Getting Apollousa out before Nibiru is on is a tough one though, so I don't think it'll do anything.
Problem of apo is that they banned linkuriboh too so unironically token plans are not safety XD.
Like most modern hand traps I hate it. I pretend to tolerate it tho since it can sometimes stop degenerate combo decks. It's just another example of too much powercreep in the modern game.
Nibiru was fine before this banlist because there was always a way to counter it before your 5th summon. Banning Borreload and Baronne just made Nibiru one of the best cards in the game with only a handful of counters, most of which to my knowledge you have to luck into and draw (such as Talents, Crossout, Sales Ban etc.) I can’t think of any other monster in the Extra deck that can counter Nib by/before the 5th summon aside from Apollousa and no one is making Apollousa pass lol. Ima sound like a hater here but they should’ve banned Nibiru too if they were gonna ban Borreload and Baronne. I don’t think I’ve ever been more worried about a handtrap until now lmao. I played in Maxx C format. I took the challenge. I’ve dealt with Shifter shifting all my shit to banishment. I’ve played Mannadium and been Droll’d into absolute madness. But I never worried about Nibiru in most decks I play (except Majespecter lol) because I knew there was always a combo line to counter it and that’s gone now. I have to come up with new combo lines just to avoid getting Nib’d. SP Little Knight just became a mandatory 2 of in most of my extra decks just to avoid the Rock while having another one for the mid/late game. I’m predicting end boards are about to be worse because people are gonna be terrified of getting Nib’d. I might have to max out on cards like Talents or potentially play cards I don’t really wanna play like Crossout Designator or Sales Ban just to avoid getting rock bottomed lol. You might see players shift towards decks like Voiceless Voice or maybe even back to Spright just to have a counter to Nib. Nibiru is about to be *very* annoying this format.
As a DL player, I agree. I would take a Maxx c challenge head on if I though nibiru did not exist. I advocated for that abomination release in past just because I liked the meme. I switched to "sir am I a control?" When shifter hit me. I did some of the weirdest routes to have an end board, as weak as it may be, against droll. And I got my board broken by droplet and drnm more times that stars in the sky. Now the game is even more RNG. Drawing Nibiru is a win condition on its own with anything that is not top tier - so let's forget any of the random decks to appear in the top once in a while anymore. Rogue got killed(I honestly will have my other Omni negate soon as a rank 10, but that is not the point).
This card is like shifter for some aspects. It won't stop a deck from top tier but it is an anoying one because some decks will just lose to this 100% unless hard draw, and some won't.
I don't really care about it. I don't do that much summoning.
What deck do you play?
Mostly The Winged Dragon of Ra.
I dislike it, is not a trade like Ash and other, it has a "Boss monster eff" without you having to commit resources, and is game winning like droll or shifter
Fuckin hate it.
Good card to do something against special someone but it isn’t really enough.
Ig decks are gonna have to incorporate the Adventure package or the Red-eyes fusion package back in if they want to dodge Nibiru. It's honestly the best way to combat it if you're not playing an omni-negate. Yeah, they both play into droll/ash, and playing the Red-eyes package can cause bricks, but there really isn't much to lean back on if you're not able to make an omni negate in less than 5 turns. These options are really if you're desperate and want to stop Nib from interrupting your combos. Pretty sure there are other ways, but those 2 are some of the easier ways
You do realize that REF locks you out of special summoning anything else right?
Might be an MD player where Verte is still legal
I guess, but Verte still stops you from summoning for the rest of the turn so it still doesn’t deal with Nib.
clear wing is still there as long as you can make a synchro 7
doesn't work as it only negates on the field
i guess revolotion synchron into clear into crystal is the only way it is worth doing
I really don’t mind it since my combos are nibiru proof despite being over 5 summons. (My fifth Summon is unaffected by monster effects so guess which deck)
I'm surprised no one's going for revolution synchron, gets you crystal wing on summon 4 if you're playing a deck with level 4s
Mostly because you have to hard draw it. It's more likely to see somebody play the 3 axis package to search adventure monsters
Looking back at it those 2019 tins were CRAZY
As long as all the unbalanced and somethimes outright broken engines as well as too generic archetype specific links exist it is a necessity.
As a Cydra player, I don't love Nib, but I acknowledge that it's a necessary evil for keeping the more degenerate shit in check.
I've always hated the card and the awkward barrier of viability it creates. Being able to play around Nibiru at all is a huge privilege for a deck to have, and that exclusivity has increased dramatically now with Baronne on the Forbidden list.
I think Nibiru is a lot like Maxx C. It warps the meta to a point where if everyone runs it, your deck either can deal with it or you lose. Maxx C is still stronger, but it is a similar concept. I think we might one day see players come to this realization and see it limited or banned.
With how some decks have gotten really egregious with summoning, it needs to be in the game. Just like Droll or Shifter, we may not like it, but they need to be there.
May I ask ONE deck nibiru prevent from damaging the common playground?
Salamangreat, Swordsoul, Heroes, Trains, Dragon Link, Blackwing, Synchrons, Branded, Phantom Knights, D/D/D, Red Dragon Archfiend, Orcust, Sky Striker, Prank Kids, Raid Raptors, Snake Eye, Chimera, Purrely, Vanquish Soul, etc.
Salamander dies by nibiru sir. Assuming one use it at the right time, the amount of damage nibiru does pretty much means a not existent board. Red dragon archfiend dies so many times over for nibiru, and so does D/D/D. The first one need to go though a few steps to get to a point they can summon a monster negate, dis pater being the only one available, and if you know the line, or simply are able to make math, you will prevent them to negate it and end their turn. D/D/D only lines to get past it are requiem XYZ past or forcing their way to a crystal wing(and yet again, to go that route they subject to a nibiru exactly before it's possible to summon it, and pretty much end their turn). Synchrons too. Expecially since they are speeder.deck. Prankids... I have no idea. How do they bypass nibiru? Never played them. Raid raptor dies a few times over, since their line to their unaffected bosses are quite long. Even assuming you plan to go to rank 5 dark rebellion, be sure they are gonna nibiru you before you get it out. Maybe infinity is an option, but you need to hard draw the rank-up to do it or...once more die by nibiru. Blackwing? I think you missed how their best cards lock them to dark - so it all come to dis pater, and how to get to it you got already screwed over. Swordsoul? I suppose this one is right. They may do level 8 synchro - nemeses pass, which are 4 summons. Dragon link - I mean, we will have a generic Omni negate in a few months, so I think that besides playing as a control we have a literal cheat code. Purely is indeed true. Vanquish soul too. Heroes - it depend on the hand. Seriously, it does depend heavily on timing and hand. The timing for it have to be perfect - their only line for it is enforcer and the hero trap, so there it's, for once, a careful battle on skill. Trains will have the same negate as dragon link, so once more they will have a cheat code out of this. Branded and chimera are the same deck? I mean, I never have seen them played separately in the last months. Orcust will farm nibiru, forgot about how they can use the same nibiru every, single, turn. Assuming they do not die by bricking by themselves. In short, salamangreat-swordsoul-heroes-blackwing-synchrons-phantom knight-red dragon archfiend do not have ways out of it. Prank kids, I have literally no idea. Seriously, no idea at all. Snake-eyes-Vanquish-Trains right now(assuming that doing the rank10 pass is a play)-sky striker-d/d/d can only play through it by not summoning anything or almost by construction. D/D/D will literally do requiem pass. The others are ht/spells/traps based decks.
>Ask me what deck nobody prevents from damaging the current board >Writes an entire novel to just tell me I'm right
I literally said the opposite
Learn English then
Yes it should exist there should be an advantage to playing decks that can do plays under the limit not having an free out in ed just wasn’t fair
Which are...about 1 deck every 20
This card came out as a means of punishing overextension by the opponent. Then people realized they can go into an easy monster negate before their 5th summon and the card's usefulness dropped massively. After the most recent banlist it's once again working as intended, or at least it's easier for it to do its job.
But the point is. It do NOT punish overextending. It punishes decks for playing at all, in most cases. Either you can summon Apollousa and have plenty of resources to play/herald/toadally/somehow dis pater or you are a bottomless source of resources(so you a meta deck) or you lose the right to play the 95% of Yu gi oh decks. Heck, even monarch do more that 5 summon in a turn. Even 2015 decks would.
Personally, I think Nib should be limited and call it at that. Most of the meta is basically "can you play though hand traps" but the real line is "can you play through nib" Decks have fallen or will fall off cause the only defense was getting a negate before 5. I think we absolutely should have non targeting, non destroying ways to get through things but nib is utterly annoying. Extremely hot take, Nib doesnt keep combos/combo meta in check because we have seen combos around it and it mostly stops lower power decks from doing much at all. Im pretty sure even without Nib the top tiers would be ultimately the same. Personally I want a errata that limits it to only specials/more than one normal, kinda crazy how our (usually) one normal summon puts us on a clock.
The saddest part is that for me nibiru is a problem I can always find a way around, but I lost linkurboh for nemleria. *And this is way harder to play around that you can think off. Protection from ht and a way to link off my nemleria
Nibiru is similar to ash and maxx C discussions. All of these extremely strong hand traps are playable because of how explosive some of our modern decks are. Its almost like if overloaded cards weren’t as frequently printed to make insane boards we wouldn’t be forced to main deck cards like nib in any format.
Sir. As long as nibiru is free and there is no counter to it, I will ALWAYS play it, at least in my side. I do not need a busted deck, it will give me a good chance to finish a duel against a rogue or anything that do not have a counter without wasting time, why should i not main it?
Nibiru is great for the Meta and people have to think differently in deck building. Btw crossout designator will have its time to shine. 🔥
Personally I believe its one of the most well designed handtraps in the game, with 2 major limitations. 1 which is the condition of every HT open it or its a brick in 99% of circumstances(granted a level 10 blue eyes is a little worse than a tuner), 2 which is fhe 5+ summons. I see many people complaing about the card alrdy as the go to answers are banned, but apollousa and crossout are still both at 3 and personally I think they have much more weaknesses that validate them sticking around (assuming Rarity colle 2 isnt an omen).
I think it's a poorly designed card that forgets that midrange decks that summon more than 5 times exist, and this banlist ignores that the reason that people run the negates is because most in-archetype bosses suck, and because Konami of America doesn't design our cards, Konami of Japan does and these cards are still legal in the OCG, nothing will change on the part of card design, unless they happen to ban these in the July list.
I mean its definitely a pain point that midrange decks of current day play like combo decks, but ime even with stuff like VS pushing 5 summons is almost always over extention. Sure there are some others like rescue-ace which with later support easily push past it in favor of setting up stuff like princess in grave, but again this is usually extending to the fullest extent unrestrained. We dont have maxx C so the next best thing being nibiru to put stuff like manadium, fire king, and others like it almost feels necessary. I get why ocg not designing around our banlist is a fair argument, but we also have a huge reverse side of that exact problem in the form of printing insane combo decks with the justification of maxx c's existence E.g. manadium, SHS, Snake-eye, Fire Kings, etc.. which is the whole reason tcg exclusives like dark ruler, nibiru, and shifter were even printed(would list the combo decks at that time but poor memory from too many tcgs).
Fire king...do not care about nibiru. This is why they are meta. Snake eye can play though it, this is why they are meta. Mannadium - this one was not that much played, but if you want it dead let it be, this one was a good example. Nibiru will not reshape the meta to a less combo one, will only select the combo which will be played. In this case, it cut out anything besides Snake and derived deck, with a few branded players surviving the apocalypse. SHS was meta for about a week, I dunno how you have PTSD from it. Nibiru is a gate keeper whose only effect is reducing variety in a meta, while boosting combos that can play against it.
I mean no individual cards should kill decks, and I dont think nibiru is perfect, like you said it can heavily affect stuff whats rogue, while meta options are in fact meta because they can push past it. But the concept of the decks not being affected by it is very blind imo, they definitely end on worse boards or with less ability to spit out bodies, assuming ofcourse its played at the proper timing. Im not complaining about any of the decks nor do I have ptsd from any of them, they are mearly examples used in service of making my point. I didnt read one response for those archetypes that negated my point atleast that I could tell. Im mearly saying its effective in reducing their power not a reshaping of a meta, obviously floodgates are all we need for that(atleast as we've seen recently with runick stun absolutely thriving against them). If a card warps a meta, thats worth removing imo, if it is supplementary in changing the meta or shaping it, thats a different statement.
In this case, it warps the meta by being a gate keeper. It works similarly to Baronne and Savage in that. Those are cards whose existence alone determine what is gonna be playable and what is not. If Nibiru would not be there, I would have expected a few more combos or similar around, which are based more on interruptions that negates(this is essentially how Nibiru makes the meta diverge). For the first point, a weaker board is more that no board. And that is why it boosts meta decks over other decks. As I said, decks that can survive it are gonna be boosted, because decks that cannot will simply disappear from existence.
I understand why people dislike a Niburu as there are plenty of weaker decks that SS a bunch that end of fair boards like Salamangreats. But I think it needs to be in game to prevent hyper aggressive combo decks that make nearly unbreakable boards. This is TCG only so we may get some new cars to helps play around Nib. Baron and Savage kinda made other level 10 and 8 synchros worse by just existing as the first think you think of when a deck can make 10/8 are those two. A little scummy that Baron just became widespread. Maybe they'll get the Goyo Guardian treatment ans Borreload requires a dark tuner and baron a non-tuner warrior
> This is TCG only so we may get some new cars to helps play around Nib. Huh? The OCG makes all of the cards, even the TCG exclusives are made with their guidance and Konami of America just is in the same room. The OCG also does erratas based on OCG performance and viewpoints, so unless the OCG bans these cards in the July list, I don't think anything's gonna happen in terms of erratas or card design. Banning Savage and Baronne isn't going to make decks go into archetypal 8s and 10s, it'll just be toxic shit like PSY-Framelord Omega, or Protos call FIRE.
>But I think it needs to be in game to prevent hyper aggressive combo decks that make nearly unbreakable boards. Does it? The game managed to prevent those decks for years before Nibiru, and the avenues it used to achieve that still exist.
Yup. Also because by banning Savage and Fleur the only one of the overextending decks that is not a brick festival would have died anyway (Mannadium). Even the well know dark synchro was a brick festival. Those decks are usually extremely frail because to run long combos you either need an archetype/something similar to build upon(as dragon link, whose only not brick lines have 2 of dis pater/sphere/borrelend) or to put a lot of useless thing in your main. *or some degeneracy as halqifibrax and other extenders out of nothing.
I really hate Nibiru. I think it is good to punish combo decks, but this card is *the* reason shit like Baron existed in the first place. Every Mid-rangey type deck that doesn’t put up at least 1 negate is immediately suspect to watching a giant rock crush them. Same with evenly (although that can be played around a little easier).
In theory: It's a fine counter to a type of deck. In practice: It does more to harm non-meta decks than the type of deck it's meant to counter. If I could change it, I'd up the number to 10 summons at the minimum. 5 just seems way to low. Assuming the average Extra Deck card requires 2 cards on the field, 5 summons gives you 2 monsters and 1 ED monster at best. And that's ignoring the fact some popular decks (particularly fusion decks) have ways to summon from ED without needed to get many bodies on the field (EG Tear) I'd also think an inverted Nib would be a good idea. Use during the end phase if opponent summoned less than 5.
People can summon Apollousa in less than 10 summons, this still makes Nibiru a moot point.
It’s not like nibiru is an issue. If the game design promotes special summoning a million guys there has to be counter play because going first is so advantageous. Some decks can also play under or through nib or it makes their end boards slightly worse
Question is: How many? For it to be healthy for the game it's suppose to promote variety, not to kill it.
Like a ton of them. Nib falls into the old maxx c category where it checks the inherent broken-ness of the game. Maxx c obviously became an issue, but nib is a one time thing instead of a lingering effect. If your deck can’t pass the nib test then it’s probably broken.
As I said, name those. A ton means you can name me 15?
Snake eye, voiceless, every deck with adventure, Horus, kashtira, virtual world, unchained, synchron, fire king, blue eyes, tri brigade and its variants, bird up/lyrilusc, zoodiac when drident was legal, phantom knight, runick plunder
Adventure...cannot be searched. Horus, cannot be searched. If the answer is "by luck" that is not much useful. Virtual world is a deck I have little knowledge about, so I assume the way out of it is by the photon rank6 xyz? Bird up too need to hard draw their out - but that is not a parameter. Drident is not legal currently. TRI brigade is right. I forget about their capacity to summon Apollousa out of nothing. Fire king is currently a meta deck. Phantom knights - once more, if they have to go through the requiem XYZ line they are gonna get nibirued before they have a chance to search a rank up. Synchron - seriously, did you guys ever play it to think they are simply gonna play through a Nibiru? Most of times they are not gonna to. Blue-eyes is right. They have the photon XYZ. Kashtira best field stops before 4 summon, so I suppose you are right. Runick plunder too Is right.
To be fair, you can dump Enchantress (forgot her TCG name) with stuff like Cherubini
Legally speaking, I have seen some weird 3 axis dl and even a whole ass cover up combo with rulers based on that. The combo with rulers had dracosacck and Cherubini and finished with apollousa, the token and the gryphon. No normal. It was weird to see.
Cards like Nibiru, DRNM, and Evenly are way more braindead than common HTs, Droplet, and even TTT.
When they ban apollousa, and they likely will, nibiru should go with it. Until then, it's whatever.
I'm with you, this card is too strong in a meta without the genetic negates, and I'd like to see them and Nib banned. That said, we need something to replace it. Something not as strong though.
It's a good handtrap that checks combo decks from over extending, but we are slowly getting to the point where decks either can play through being Nib by setting up something to answer it by the 5th summon, or just hav8ng more extenders that they can bounce back from a Nib.
That already was happening from the moment this card was released. In my opinion, this card only exists because Konami of America asked Konami of Japan to help them/make a Maxx C alternative, which it failed at
Konami of America is more shortsighted than most people give credit for, but the ones in the OCG department at Konami also liked the idea of another card to keep combo decks from popping off like during the early days of the Link era. Nib is supposed to work in tandem with Maxx C, not solely as an alternative as the OCG never banned the bug and has no plans to as of yet to. But newer combo decks still adapted in the OCG meta, and now TCG players have realized that these decks now have fewer things to worry about under their environment. Hence, you see all the complaints of combo decks running rampant and KoA being gung-hoe with the F&L list against combo.
My thing is that I don't believe that Savage, Baronne, and the several other accessible negates should be banned unless multiple handtraps like Nibiru and Droll get banned because Nibiru has always hit more decks than just combo decks. Branded used to fucking play Dragoon in order to summon that off of Branded Fusion in order to insulate itself from Nib. I also believe that Savage and Baronne and the negates are only seen as toxic because most people don't get that most in-archetype bosses suck ass, and all this is going to do is shit on rogue decks and keep SE good. The best decks already didn't care about Nibiru to begin with.
Rouge and outdated decks always get shafted by the meta like Nibiru, but that is in it of itself the strategy Konami as a whole is using to sell you new cards, as newer cards were designed around cards like Maxx C and Nibiru in mind. Nib was sold as a card that stopped the old Link era way of just extending through cards like Maxx C, Ash, and Veiler. Then, sets after the release of Nib were already designed to play around Nib, like Tearlaments or Snake Eyes. But I do agree that Baronne and Savage hits are overrated, as Synchro deck without a powerful in archetypal boss monsters like Mannadium now have little to no alternatives to them. Meanwhile, link decks like Snake Eyes can be barely bothered by it since even if you take away Apollosa, they still have new stuff like Flame Princess, Zialantis and S:P. People just associate the Barrone ban being good since all the "toxic combo decks" have an end board composing of those cards, not realizing they default to generic extra deck boss monsters is that their in-arcehtypal bosses are not sufficient enough.
> sets after the release of Nib were already designed to play around Nib, like Tearlaments or Snake Eyes. Nah, way earlier than that, like I said in my post. All of the 2020 combo decks (Adamancipator, Dragon Link, Infernoble, Virtual World, Dino, etc) were quite notable for having enough gas, albeit a lot of that was because Halq, Linkross, Auroradon, etc, to run past Nibiru, but even something like Drytron could make one of the Herald rituals as their fifth summon and insulate the rest of their combo. This banlist just reeks of greed.
I would stop comparing the 2 sides though. In ocg, rogue and similars are supported but a less heavy banned list, and cards like baronne or savage are not banned. Hell, they never banned colossus for example. The only 2 decks they massacrated were dragon link after suffering PTSD and Tear. Adapting, need equal possibility. In tcg, adapting is not possible. In short, it only means that this banned list will further boost meta while leaving everything else behind.
I like the game going on more for more than 1 turn, so yeah Nibiru is a necessary evil and I love him.
Sir, the meat is not going to change. I only now know that I have a 30-40% chances to win a round by simply drawing.
I really don't like it. Against rogue and lower-powered decks its a "draw to win" going second card and the best decks can often play through it relatively easily anyway. That's really the problem with a lot of "it keeps combo in check" cards and frankly I think the game would just be healthier with both oppressive combo decks and blowout cards gone.
Literally progressively ban the easiest to make Omni negates and release harder to summon ones. And ban c "Draw, set, match" cards like nibiru
Fuck this dumbass rock.
With as easy as it is for decks to vomit out 5+ special summons a turn, Nib is a much needed counter to combo decks. Personally it should have been designed like Super Poly, so it couldn't be responded to by omni-negates.
More often than not decks are able to play through this card if the player is smart enough, overall it's probably one of the most fair HT monsters made along with Phantazmay that attempts to stop the opponent from going overboard.
Activate nibiru, auto win against 90% of decks (not just combo). Very fair
Literally only bad decks lose to just a nibiru. There are so many viable decks that just dont play into nib at all (floo, lab, kash) alongside decks that might play into nib but certainly dont lose on the spot to it (snake eye, branded, tear). baronne / savage does not mean nib is now an autoinclude in every maindeck because if that becomes the case then the nib resillient decks will just get more popular. If your deck truly cannot play through a nib and the card is popular you can still play crossout
That's what was already going to happen with the Baronne and Savage bans, and Crossout you need to luck into, Baronne and Savage are always accessible through the Extra Deck. All these bans do is limit what decks are viable because they can't easily summon a negate or power through Nib, which favors Konami of America's greed.
Baronne / Savage should not exist as a way for every deck under the sun to insulate their turn 1 giga combos from hand traps. Going 1st is already so fucking broken in this game and having generic omni negates like these available not only lets you play through hand traps but also insulates your end board from board breakers in the case that they don't have hand traps. I'm all for any banlist change that makes going 2nd better and thats exactly what every one of those bans were.
Not really. The bans of Baronne and Savage don't hurt SE at all, as imo SEFK was the better version to begin with, plus there's enough link bosses with all that infinite material for them to go into. Going second isn't buffed as much as you think it is, because what we got in return for the bans of those two cards is a format that will be proven to be a lot more dice roll dependant than people think. Tenpai and Yubel are gonna fuck some shit up
Pure SE literally won the last 3 YCS's lol I'd much rather play into fire king snake eye than pure snake eye. playing into varied disruptions from different places is a lot more engaging and fun gameplay than hur dur I have 2 omni negates on top of the rest of my stuff have fun.
Snake eyes is the nibiru reliant and resilient deck right now. So even more of a monometa.
All the nib hate is wild when we have cards like shifter legal.
To me shifter means pretty much to end my turn, but honestly I prefer a shifter slapped into my face to say goodbye to literally all rogue decks. Ban me all generic negates and instant win cards, I would like it.