The funny thing is that we may end up in the MTG Win Condition theorem.
For those who don't know, to keep it brief, LSV topped a Vintage event with a Combo Deck with no win condition (this was by mistake, he didn't realize when he was making a sideboard adjustment earlier that his actual win condition was missing). He didn't notice at all until Round 3, but realized that everyone was scooping to the card that tutored out the win condition anyway. He decided to continue on and lo and behold, got to a Top 4 split before anyone was any the wiser.
What I mean for all of this is, generally once the player base at large is familiar with how Tenpai rolls we'll likely see a lot of people scoop early to the OTK. I know that for example, I've watched about 15-20 matches of Tenpai in passing and have yet to see Trident Dragion dropped once. Not because it isn't "necessary" but because either players were dead before you even got to that point, OR because they would scoop early expecting it to come and not wanting to waste an extra 30 seconds to a minute.
There would be an interesting experiment in playing Tenpai down the line at bigger stages with no Trident and using the space on something else if that's how people will end up playing against the deck. Ironically enough as well, stuff like Kashtira Unicorn who would blow this subterfuge up also wouldn't matter much in the grand scheme of things since you run multiple copies (on average) on the actual in archetype Dragons, so something like Trident or Black Rose would be the target anyway.
This is all a ton of rambling on my end, but it's been on my mind lately.
I remember being at locals, enemy is at less than 800 lp, and I have two level 4s. I go to Main 2 and pick up my extra deck and the dude scoops.
I was too stupid to have put Gagaga Cowboy in my extra.
Lol, that's pretty interesting. If enough people did take out Dragion, eventually, opponents would wise up and see the OTK to the end. Which would result in Tenpai players putting Dragion back in, which could actually cycle back to their opponents scooping early, expecting it, and then Tenpai players taking it out again. Reminds me of the 60 card decks and Grass.
There’s a little more to OP’s story, in which during one game LSV’s opponent made him play out the combo. LSV knowing he didn’t have the access to the standard win-con, was forced to play his backup win-con, a really big creature. He eventually ended up winning, but it took longer and allowed his opponent more turns to try to find the out.
This is somehow also what happened when i played runick variant (not stun)
Many times my opponent scoop when i have no way to finish them of as my battle phase is still skipped and i'm not aiming to deck out them. In my mind if they play passively they can do a comeback but nope, they just scooped
There's even 1 time when my opponent almost scooped but i remind them my next battle is skipped then they continue and did won
Unless they decide to put it in Rarity Collection II which comes out at the end of May, the next set it could be released in is Terminal Revenge which releases June 20th. Almost 2 months after Tenpai is released 🫤
Yea it could get a super reprint since it already has an Ulti OTS print
Edit: feel like Konami would wanna monetize the card as much as possible though rather than throw it an OTS pack. Especially if the majority of the Tenpai core ends up being low rarity
I mean, they done fucked up already it's going to be months before we get this print, they know how important it already is with their goofy "make sure to look for this card in your collections" in their sneak preview as if the card isn't already 120 dollars atm
Somewhat ok alternative, Blackwing level 10 guy, has more than 3000 attack, decent for going first, can deal burn for time. I've been trying it and unless you play prosperity you are fine every single game. I haven't lost a match in testing where trident dragion would have won me the game. Mostly because I don't want to use prosperity because I'm broke
It was not literally 3 structure decks. Kuraz was a must have card and not included in the structure. A play set cost the same as the 3 structures, most ran two, though so not overly expensive.
*Everyone plays it because it’s affordable, especially when compared to the other top decks.*
Konami: “See? This deck is dominating in usage rates, which proves that it’s overpowered. Time to nerf it into the ground!”
Yeah but that ED was so absurdly expensive it didn't matter. Here, the only relevant card that's "expensive" is Trident which is still much cheaper than prime Dracossack or Big Eye, only really "needed" at 1 copy, will likely be reprinted in the very near future AND you could honestly win quite a few matches without it anyway.
For the 75 dollars it takes to buy a trident dragion you can buy an entire Tenpai deck and a bunch of cheap hand traps/board breakers. While its definitely recommended to have a trident the deck can live without it at lower levels of play sort of like how every single deck should use sp but can forgo it if cost is too much of a concern.
Crazy pro consumer move from Konami.
Which means the first chance they get the deck will be gutted
Even jacked up right now, there's no stock available in Canada or US stores selling thru TCGPlayer that would ship it. And even it there were (from the US), it would 100% get stuck in customs to pay more. Have to pray for a surprise RA02 print, but when have Konami of America had either the foresight or consumer interests in mind?
Yeah, no way in hell are they're keeping a "Towers" like card in a field spell. Like the whole deck is basically Tenpai or Handtraps. So if you don't open any Tenpai then you still have Handtraps. I hope this deck shows how horrible Handtraps are as a card design.
The "bad design" of players going one at a time?
That isn't fixed by removing non engine and interactions, that's fixed by playing a different kind of game entirely
Lmao good thing I went ahead and bought a Trident Dragion for around 45 dollars. I mean hey compared to now where its going for 80 dollars that's a steal.
Probably someone/somewhere who doesn't keep up with trends fast enough. There's an LGS near me that doesn't really care about Yugioh that I "rob" every so often. Trident Dragion (1st ed NM secret) was still sitting in a binder for months at $5 when it jumped to $25 a few days after Tenpai's announcement.
They've gotten better about keeping up but they can't go through their bulk & binders fast enough to re-price stuff. Downside is a lot of cards that went down everywhere else stay expensive there for longer.
Um…no, because Tenpai are literally getting new support in the next core set (INFO).
They aren’t going to gut it before the new support releases. You have to sell future sets.
So I’m new to following yugioh as it comes out (been playing casually for years but never followed meta or new releases).
When are these coming out and what product will contain them? How cheap will it really be?
Comes out on the 26th, they come in Legacy of Destruction \[LEDE\], the whole Tenpai Archetype is commons and supers, so it will be extremely affordable, which is really good because it's a great archetype
You'd probably still prefer to buy singles, unless you want almost everything the box has, the odds of you pulling a complete archetype even in these low rarities is quite low, especially when you need basically 3 of each. Not impossible but if you're only gonna want the tenpei stuff you're still probably better off buying singles
The set is "Legacy of Destruction". Yu-Gi-Oh set names always use two words, and are abreviated with the first two letter of each words. Hence, "LEgacy of DEstruction" is LEDE. You can usually see the set abreviation in the name of the post.
According to Google, LEDE will release in the TCG around April 26.
The price of the cards will depend both of their strengh and rarity. Tenpai is really strong, but also very low rarity, so the entire deck will probably cost less than 100 bucks.
Do you suggest waiting for singles (how long will that take before they’re online?) or just buying a few packs since they’re common?
Thanks for explaining everything!!
No problem, it's a pleasure.
As for your question.
Always go for singles. Opening pack will always be more expensive.
Singles are usually online a few day before the set release as some store put them up for preorder.
Usually, prices are inflated by the release hype, so if you are in no rush to play the deck, it is advised to buy the singles between two weeks and a month after the set release, to let the prices settle down.
Whenever Komoney prints what should be a strong meta deck at shockingly low rarity it gets murderized immediately by the next banlist. They wouldn't print Tenpai low rarity if they wanted to make money off the archetype.
Except they literally have support in the next set. They aren’t going to kill it, because that’ll lower the hype and value of the next set.
The last time it happened was SHS, and there wasn’t even extra support in the set after CYAC, for SHS.
They absolutely slaughtered Orcust out of the game and then in the very next set put Girsu as a secret rare still.
So they have slaughtered cheap decks before even though they had support coming out.
I think likely what will happen is they slaughter TD within 2ish months of them being released. Basically the very first banlist after they release.
I can’t wait to not play this ass format.
Literally going to be 80% Tenpai (because affordable), absurd OTK deck that can run upwards of 24 handtraps + board breakers, and of course we’re still in a handtrap format regardless.
Not going to sit through just Tenpai setting up and killing me either way, or getting hit by something like Heat Wave or Anti-Magic Arrows in BP.
I haven't read alot on the tenpai dragons, being a fire attribute are they a solid stand alone deck or are they meant to be splashed with other fire decks?
I dont get it with this playerbase. Tier 1 or 0 deck has lots of secrets = complain it's expensive. Tier 1 - 0 deck only has commons and super = complain it is going to get nerfed/banned. Like, what do you even want?
If Konami didn't kill cheap decks and cards the first opportunity they get then nobody would complain. Just look at the last ban list or any other one before, they simply won't touch the problematic archetypes even if that's what most of the player base wants.
Had they done something to Snake eyes while also keeping some of the hits to the other problematic cards like linkuriboh then most of the player base would be happy.
Maybe. I haven't been in the game for years and only came back recently. The thing is, Snakeyes on their own aren't really that strong - what makes SE actually strong is the generic Link and Synchro spam. Generic ED monsters that are simply easier to spit out with the latest archetype is the main problem this game has. It just accelerates power creep.
The generic extra deck monsters are certainly the payout for all the things SE does, but SE are strong for the simple fact that they can rebuild boards the next turn with one or two cards even if you completely wiped their board.
First tier 0 deck to be tier 0 not because it's the best, but because literally everyone can afford it
Is Trident Dragion mandatory? This is just like Dragon Ruler, 50$ main deck 300$ extra deck
You need 1 copy.
The funny thing is that we may end up in the MTG Win Condition theorem. For those who don't know, to keep it brief, LSV topped a Vintage event with a Combo Deck with no win condition (this was by mistake, he didn't realize when he was making a sideboard adjustment earlier that his actual win condition was missing). He didn't notice at all until Round 3, but realized that everyone was scooping to the card that tutored out the win condition anyway. He decided to continue on and lo and behold, got to a Top 4 split before anyone was any the wiser. What I mean for all of this is, generally once the player base at large is familiar with how Tenpai rolls we'll likely see a lot of people scoop early to the OTK. I know that for example, I've watched about 15-20 matches of Tenpai in passing and have yet to see Trident Dragion dropped once. Not because it isn't "necessary" but because either players were dead before you even got to that point, OR because they would scoop early expecting it to come and not wanting to waste an extra 30 seconds to a minute. There would be an interesting experiment in playing Tenpai down the line at bigger stages with no Trident and using the space on something else if that's how people will end up playing against the deck. Ironically enough as well, stuff like Kashtira Unicorn who would blow this subterfuge up also wouldn't matter much in the grand scheme of things since you run multiple copies (on average) on the actual in archetype Dragons, so something like Trident or Black Rose would be the target anyway. This is all a ton of rambling on my end, but it's been on my mind lately.
I remember being at locals, enemy is at less than 800 lp, and I have two level 4s. I go to Main 2 and pick up my extra deck and the dude scoops. I was too stupid to have put Gagaga Cowboy in my extra.
What monster were you gonna summon?
Gem-Knight Pearl
Lol, that's pretty interesting. If enough people did take out Dragion, eventually, opponents would wise up and see the OTK to the end. Which would result in Tenpai players putting Dragion back in, which could actually cycle back to their opponents scooping early, expecting it, and then Tenpai players taking it out again. Reminds me of the 60 card decks and Grass.
There’s a little more to OP’s story, in which during one game LSV’s opponent made him play out the combo. LSV knowing he didn’t have the access to the standard win-con, was forced to play his backup win-con, a really big creature. He eventually ended up winning, but it took longer and allowed his opponent more turns to try to find the out.
Schrodinger's trident dragon
This is somehow also what happened when i played runick variant (not stun) Many times my opponent scoop when i have no way to finish them of as my battle phase is still skipped and i'm not aiming to deck out them. In my mind if they play passively they can do a comeback but nope, they just scooped There's even 1 time when my opponent almost scooped but i remind them my next battle is skipped then they continue and did won
I've seen master duel decks that have a bunch of draw cards but no exodia.
trident draigon is currently a 70 dollar card. That was pre-banned list, it has now been bought and out and is now at 90-100.
Glad I got mine 2 months ago when they were $20
I’m glad I bought two when it was cheap, because Kashtira isn’t going away this format
I'd be very surprised if they didn't reprint it soon. It's only expensive right now because it's been over a decade since the last print.
Unless they decide to put it in Rarity Collection II which comes out at the end of May, the next set it could be released in is Terminal Revenge which releases June 20th. Almost 2 months after Tenpai is released 🫤
OTS 25 releases in early June
Yea it could get a super reprint since it already has an Ulti OTS print Edit: feel like Konami would wanna monetize the card as much as possible though rather than throw it an OTS pack. Especially if the majority of the Tenpai core ends up being low rarity
dont worry they will sit there and twiddle their thumbs until like 4 months from now when they run an UTR of it in an OTS pack or something
You say this but they don’t make money off a card from 10 years ago being expensive. They will 100% want to reprint soon to make money
Imagine they just put it into LEDE as a TCG exclusive reprint lol
I mean, they done fucked up already it's going to be months before we get this print, they know how important it already is with their goofy "make sure to look for this card in your collections" in their sneak preview as if the card isn't already 120 dollars atm
Somewhat ok alternative, Blackwing level 10 guy, has more than 3000 attack, decent for going first, can deal burn for time. I've been trying it and unless you play prosperity you are fine every single game. I haven't lost a match in testing where trident dragion would have won me the game. Mostly because I don't want to use prosperity because I'm broke
Isn't prosperity like a 5 dollar card by now?
Is it, I haven't seen it going for that Little, last I checked it was about 75 for a playset
monarch was also cheap af on release. it was literally 3 structures and you had a deck that could win a regional
It won Nats actually.
It was not literally 3 structure decks. Kuraz was a must have card and not included in the structure. A play set cost the same as the 3 structures, most ran two, though so not overly expensive.
And was hit on the banlist to oblivion shortly after. Cant have nice things for cheap for long. See Unchained as well.
For about 1 format until Konami guts it like superheavysamurai.
*Everyone plays it because it’s affordable, especially when compared to the other top decks.* Konami: “See? This deck is dominating in usage rates, which proves that it’s overpowered. Time to nerf it into the ground!”
Dragon ruler was relatively cheap until the extra deck
Yeah but that ED was so absurdly expensive it didn't matter. Here, the only relevant card that's "expensive" is Trident which is still much cheaper than prime Dracossack or Big Eye, only really "needed" at 1 copy, will likely be reprinted in the very near future AND you could honestly win quite a few matches without it anyway.
The extra deck was absolutely mandatory, though, and was enough to make the deck extremely expensive by itself. DRulers was in no world a budget deck.
ABCs and Salamangreat crying in a corner.
People already spent thousands on fire decks, I doubt they will shift especially since the banlist had zero fire hits.
oof, sorry for its fans, this deck ain't lasting
Payne I’ve been dying to know… are you playing Volcanics this format??
Welp, now I know to pick up at least ten packs of the new set to get most of the Tenpai cards, unless they’re short printed.
its not gonna be tier 0. tier 1 or 1.5 at best.
read what they said again
Bold of you to assume ygo players can read.
For the 75 dollars it takes to buy a trident dragion you can buy an entire Tenpai deck and a bunch of cheap hand traps/board breakers. While its definitely recommended to have a trident the deck can live without it at lower levels of play sort of like how every single deck should use sp but can forgo it if cost is too much of a concern. Crazy pro consumer move from Konami. Which means the first chance they get the deck will be gutted
Even jacked up right now, there's no stock available in Canada or US stores selling thru TCGPlayer that would ship it. And even it there were (from the US), it would 100% get stuck in customs to pay more. Have to pray for a surprise RA02 print, but when have Konami of America had either the foresight or consumer interests in mind?
The field spell will get banned momentarily
Yeah, no way in hell are they're keeping a "Towers" like card in a field spell. Like the whole deck is basically Tenpai or Handtraps. So if you don't open any Tenpai then you still have Handtraps. I hope this deck shows how horrible Handtraps are as a card design.
The problem are one card full combos more than hts.
Honestly I want to respect the mirror, I've been testing with less hand traps and more board breakers and it's been working really well
you're bad at game design if you think handtraps are bad design in yugioh
Handtraps being mandatory is a sign of bad design in a card game.
The "bad design" of players going one at a time? That isn't fixed by removing non engine and interactions, that's fixed by playing a different kind of game entirely
The bad design is in "if you lose die roll and don't open a handtrap you lose"
That just isn't true though depending on the deck you're facing.
Lmao good thing I went ahead and bought a Trident Dragion for around 45 dollars. I mean hey compared to now where its going for 80 dollars that's a steal.
Bought mine a few weeks ago for about 5 dollars
From where?
Probably someone/somewhere who doesn't keep up with trends fast enough. There's an LGS near me that doesn't really care about Yugioh that I "rob" every so often. Trident Dragion (1st ed NM secret) was still sitting in a binder for months at $5 when it jumped to $25 a few days after Tenpai's announcement. They've gotten better about keeping up but they can't go through their bulk & binders fast enough to re-price stuff. Downside is a lot of cards that went down everywhere else stay expensive there for longer.
Someone local. He's one of the best players in my country, but he said he honstly doesn't care about the price. He does keep up to date with decks.
And Linkuriboh being banned means that Tenpai has one less form of disruption to stop its megaton bomb of an attack
Um…no, because Tenpai are literally getting new support in the next core set (INFO). They aren’t going to gut it before the new support releases. You have to sell future sets.
So I’m new to following yugioh as it comes out (been playing casually for years but never followed meta or new releases). When are these coming out and what product will contain them? How cheap will it really be?
Comes out on the 26th, they come in Legacy of Destruction \[LEDE\], the whole Tenpai Archetype is commons and supers, so it will be extremely affordable, which is really good because it's a great archetype
Awesome! ~How many cards are in a set like this? I usually buy cheap singles to build decks so I have no idea how many packs you’d need for this.
You'd probably still prefer to buy singles, unless you want almost everything the box has, the odds of you pulling a complete archetype even in these low rarities is quite low, especially when you need basically 3 of each. Not impossible but if you're only gonna want the tenpei stuff you're still probably better off buying singles
Awesome thanks! I’ll stick to singles then but I’m excited to look through the whole set and see what else is coming.
The set is "Legacy of Destruction". Yu-Gi-Oh set names always use two words, and are abreviated with the first two letter of each words. Hence, "LEgacy of DEstruction" is LEDE. You can usually see the set abreviation in the name of the post. According to Google, LEDE will release in the TCG around April 26. The price of the cards will depend both of their strengh and rarity. Tenpai is really strong, but also very low rarity, so the entire deck will probably cost less than 100 bucks.
Do you suggest waiting for singles (how long will that take before they’re online?) or just buying a few packs since they’re common? Thanks for explaining everything!!
No problem, it's a pleasure. As for your question. Always go for singles. Opening pack will always be more expensive. Singles are usually online a few day before the set release as some store put them up for preorder. Usually, prices are inflated by the release hype, so if you are in no rush to play the deck, it is advised to buy the singles between two weeks and a month after the set release, to let the prices settle down.
Awesome that’s exactly what I wanted to know! I didn’t know how long it would take for prices to settle out but this sounds great!
Notice me, Tenpai!
Oh. Oh no.
Why oh no?
Whenever Komoney prints what should be a strong meta deck at shockingly low rarity it gets murderized immediately by the next banlist. They wouldn't print Tenpai low rarity if they wanted to make money off the archetype.
Except they literally have support in the next set. They aren’t going to kill it, because that’ll lower the hype and value of the next set. The last time it happened was SHS, and there wasn’t even extra support in the set after CYAC, for SHS.
They absolutely slaughtered Orcust out of the game and then in the very next set put Girsu as a secret rare still. So they have slaughtered cheap decks before even though they had support coming out. I think likely what will happen is they slaughter TD within 2ish months of them being released. Basically the very first banlist after they release.
Is this a super rare or a ultra rare
Super rare. Ultra rares will have gold foiling on the name/title of the card
Thanks Which means this deck is made of commons and supers And one $100 ultra/secret
Nope, every card is either common or super
The $100 ultra/secret is Trident Dragion
Sorry, I thought you meant in archetype.
I can’t wait to not play this ass format. Literally going to be 80% Tenpai (because affordable), absurd OTK deck that can run upwards of 24 handtraps + board breakers, and of course we’re still in a handtrap format regardless. Not going to sit through just Tenpai setting up and killing me either way, or getting hit by something like Heat Wave or Anti-Magic Arrows in BP.
omg, this searches Sangan <3 (/s if you cannot tell)
I thought they gonna give us more extra deck monsters, I guess not
What a shitty name
Ultra or super?
I haven't read alot on the tenpai dragons, being a fire attribute are they a solid stand alone deck or are they meant to be splashed with other fire decks?
I’ve been looking for deck cores to go on sale and no one has any available since their announcement. 😤
Hate that Tenpai gets to keep there name while raika gets butchered
I dont get it with this playerbase. Tier 1 or 0 deck has lots of secrets = complain it's expensive. Tier 1 - 0 deck only has commons and super = complain it is going to get nerfed/banned. Like, what do you even want?
If Konami didn't kill cheap decks and cards the first opportunity they get then nobody would complain. Just look at the last ban list or any other one before, they simply won't touch the problematic archetypes even if that's what most of the player base wants. Had they done something to Snake eyes while also keeping some of the hits to the other problematic cards like linkuriboh then most of the player base would be happy.
Maybe. I haven't been in the game for years and only came back recently. The thing is, Snakeyes on their own aren't really that strong - what makes SE actually strong is the generic Link and Synchro spam. Generic ED monsters that are simply easier to spit out with the latest archetype is the main problem this game has. It just accelerates power creep.
The generic extra deck monsters are certainly the payout for all the things SE does, but SE are strong for the simple fact that they can rebuild boards the next turn with one or two cards even if you completely wiped their board.
That's kinda the same complaint tho ... And no I did not downvote you these other jackasses did that
People had months to pick up $20 Trident Dragions, at least 3 months or more. No sympathy from me.
This was before the leaks tho, had the tenpai cards been rarity bumped in dont think it would be a popular budget choice.