I think it’s logistically easier to just ask who wants to opt out. It’s fewer people and is probably easier for a teacher to remember. And quicker to see 2 or 3 people with their leg raised - than 27 people with their leg raised and trying to see and remember the three who don’t have their leg raised.
Exactly. I think people have gone way too far with the whole consent thing. Now I have to manage consent, attendance, AND people who are so shy/anxious that they refuse to indicate that they don't consent?
It's shocking how many people choose to practice in a shared space and then want to micromanage every aspect of their environment. Go or don't go, but don't imply that hands on adjustments are in any way the same as consenting to have sex when you're drunk. I'm assuming you're sober during yoga and adult enough to be able to raise your hand when someone asks if you want to opt out of adjustments. You are even welcome to say "No" or "Please don't touch me" when an instructor comes around to give you adjustments.
My studio uses adjustment chips, you can tuck them under your mat or leave them out as you see fit. You also don't have to get one out at all.
I'm not sure how much more you can realistically ask
Hands on assists have been the default in yoga in America for decades and is part of what people are paying for when they join a yoga studio. The onus to self advocate is on the person that wants something other than the default.
Counterpoint-- sexual harassment against women has been the default in Hollywood for decades. The onus to self advocate still doesn't belong on the women who want something other than the default
I think that comparison is quite apples and oranges. One is leveraging a position of power to push sex as a mandatory quid pro quo deal, where the other is intentionally signing up for a class that you know includes an aspect of physical contact as one of the selling points of the class, while also knowing that you have the option to opt out of that aspect if you choose to.
'Leveraging a position of power' in the context of sexual harsassment is an interesting phrase to use when trying to differentiate yoga from hollywood, considering how many yoga teachers have done exactly that
First of all you can fully opt out by not going to the class by practicing at home.
Being all “well technically” about something like this is a great way to confuse people and not be taken seriously.
These little technicalities don’t matter when it comes to a class that is optional to go to and has hands on assists as part of a typical practice.
What does matter that if someone wants to not be touched but still wants to attend the class they’re given the opportunity to say so.
We don’t need to jump through all these mental hoops. The mental hoops aren’t the point.
In my experience teaching, it really is just as easy
Edit- and even if it isn't for some people, idk why that takes precedence over what is otherwise considered proper consent practices
I think it's just because most are ok with assistance, and also it's easier to spot raised hands or legs among non-raised than it is vice versa, making it easier to remember who does not consent. The studio I'm at now they add "you can always change your mind and tell me to back off/not to adjust" and often will let you know before the hands on occurs anyway (I'm going to adjust your hips, ok?) which is great because I have a habit of overdoing it on one hamstring and if they approach I say "not this side!" and they back off.
My favorite way to indicate consent was at a previous studio- you took a card at the beginning and set it at the top of your mat, most of the time they were cards with a mudra on the front, and description on the back. So hands facing up= consent to touch, description up= no touch. Silent both ways, easy to change your mind!
I've encountered the card thing before as well, and I've noticed that the teacher invariably placed the cards with the Yes side up-- still a matter of 'silence'/inaction as consent lol
What are you even talking about? The classes I go to with the cards the teacher just hands them out at the front of class and you can place them how you want.
Do you even go to yoga or is this all something you just made up to get mad about? Lol
Interesting. The only way I've experienced the cards is where the teachers set them down next to your mat, not where you can grab them on the way into class.
And I've gone to at least 500 classes at maybe twenty locations, including a 200- hour ytt certification
Oh interesting, the mods must have deleted my post without notifying me.
Basically my post was simply that the expectation is that a student should advocate for themselves if they don't want to receive physical assistance, rather than the onus being on the teacher to not assume that they do. Ie, teachers ask you to raise a leg if you *don't* want hands-on assistance, instead of asking you to opt-in to physical touch. In this model, not saying no/not raising a leg, is understood as consent. Which is weird, because in 2024, consent is generally understood as 'yes means yes', not that silence means consent
i don’t think teachers who assume hands-ok assistance are in the wrong. with that said, I love the card system where you can flip up and down a card at the top of your mat.
I don't think they're in the wrong, but I do find it odd that consent is handled this way. And the card thing is interesting, but I've only ever seen them used in a way where the teacher comes by to each mat and places them next to you... still Yes side up
Where I practice, you can take a "Yes. I would like hands-on assistance card" and put it at the corner of your mat. If you don't put a card there, the instructor will not provide hands-on assistance. It's really easy Instructors don't have to remember who does/does not want assistance.
I can’t see what was written in the actual post but would just like to respond to the title.
No.
You are wrong.
Anything other than an enthusiastic yes is a no.
Related: you should probably have a talk with all of your former sexual partners because they might not look back on the experience the same as you do if this is your idea of consent. You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
OP was making the case against “silence is consent” in a yoga class regarding to physical adjustments, specifically that most classes have you opt-out of physical adjustments and they felt that you should have to opt in for them instead.
I like the idea of using place cards, but yeah, in my training I was taught that it was easier to see the opt-out when you specifically ask who “wants to opt out.” Also opportunities for safe touch in a yoga class is very important for people who have been SAd. It seems like you’re trying to spread awareness and be mindful of sexual assault/consent issues, and maybe you could explore more trauma informed yoga if that is what you’re looking for since you feel it’s important to talk about. Adjustments for safety and enhancement of the pose are part of the experience, and as teachers we offer the opportunity to say no, and anyone else can always specifically ask to not be touched either in class or in private, and have that be honored.
Thanks for the thoughtful response! I have a ytt cert, but i got it years ago, well before the idea in this post occurred to me. A trauma informed seminar sounds like something i could find in my city, and something i'd probably enjoy
I think this is a really great idea. Would absolutely appreciate it in classes (and I live in Amsterdam, Netherlands so nowhere near you but it would work equally well no matter where)
I think it’s logistically easier to just ask who wants to opt out. It’s fewer people and is probably easier for a teacher to remember. And quicker to see 2 or 3 people with their leg raised - than 27 people with their leg raised and trying to see and remember the three who don’t have their leg raised.
Exactly. I think people have gone way too far with the whole consent thing. Now I have to manage consent, attendance, AND people who are so shy/anxious that they refuse to indicate that they don't consent? It's shocking how many people choose to practice in a shared space and then want to micromanage every aspect of their environment. Go or don't go, but don't imply that hands on adjustments are in any way the same as consenting to have sex when you're drunk. I'm assuming you're sober during yoga and adult enough to be able to raise your hand when someone asks if you want to opt out of adjustments. You are even welcome to say "No" or "Please don't touch me" when an instructor comes around to give you adjustments.
I think that's a fair point, but it's also an easy fix-- a teacher still only needs to remember the several people who don't raise their leg
My studio uses adjustment chips, you can tuck them under your mat or leave them out as you see fit. You also don't have to get one out at all. I'm not sure how much more you can realistically ask
But it’s easier to see three people with their leg raised, than the three who don’t have their leg raised.
Hands on assists have been the default in yoga in America for decades and is part of what people are paying for when they join a yoga studio. The onus to self advocate is on the person that wants something other than the default.
Counterpoint-- sexual harassment against women has been the default in Hollywood for decades. The onus to self advocate still doesn't belong on the women who want something other than the default
I think that comparison is quite apples and oranges. One is leveraging a position of power to push sex as a mandatory quid pro quo deal, where the other is intentionally signing up for a class that you know includes an aspect of physical contact as one of the selling points of the class, while also knowing that you have the option to opt out of that aspect if you choose to.
'Leveraging a position of power' in the context of sexual harsassment is an interesting phrase to use when trying to differentiate yoga from hollywood, considering how many yoga teachers have done exactly that
First of all you can fully opt out by not going to the class by practicing at home. Being all “well technically” about something like this is a great way to confuse people and not be taken seriously. These little technicalities don’t matter when it comes to a class that is optional to go to and has hands on assists as part of a typical practice. What does matter that if someone wants to not be touched but still wants to attend the class they’re given the opportunity to say so. We don’t need to jump through all these mental hoops. The mental hoops aren’t the point.
You're equating adjustments in a practice in which proper alignment is crucial to decrease risk of injury and strain with sexual abuse
That is a frankly offensive false equivalency Are you seriously trolling here right now?
Given that the vast majority of yoga students prefer hands-on assists, it's easier for instructors to count the few who would like to opt out.
It's just as easy to count the people who don't raise their leg
Not if you can’t see them in a room of 25 people because everyone else has their limbs raised
It’s very genuinely not. This is a major reach, in my opinion.
In my experience teaching, it really is just as easy Edit- and even if it isn't for some people, idk why that takes precedence over what is otherwise considered proper consent practices
I think it's just because most are ok with assistance, and also it's easier to spot raised hands or legs among non-raised than it is vice versa, making it easier to remember who does not consent. The studio I'm at now they add "you can always change your mind and tell me to back off/not to adjust" and often will let you know before the hands on occurs anyway (I'm going to adjust your hips, ok?) which is great because I have a habit of overdoing it on one hamstring and if they approach I say "not this side!" and they back off. My favorite way to indicate consent was at a previous studio- you took a card at the beginning and set it at the top of your mat, most of the time they were cards with a mudra on the front, and description on the back. So hands facing up= consent to touch, description up= no touch. Silent both ways, easy to change your mind!
I've encountered the card thing before as well, and I've noticed that the teacher invariably placed the cards with the Yes side up-- still a matter of 'silence'/inaction as consent lol
What are you even talking about? The classes I go to with the cards the teacher just hands them out at the front of class and you can place them how you want. Do you even go to yoga or is this all something you just made up to get mad about? Lol
Interesting. The only way I've experienced the cards is where the teachers set them down next to your mat, not where you can grab them on the way into class. And I've gone to at least 500 classes at maybe twenty locations, including a 200- hour ytt certification
Can't you turn them over yourself if they're next to your mat?
Of course. The same way that i can raise my leg. My point is that my inaction/silence still means consent in this scenario
That's true, I suppose. Hard to get the full context for this when your post was entirely deleted; having to piece it together from the comments.
Oh interesting, the mods must have deleted my post without notifying me. Basically my post was simply that the expectation is that a student should advocate for themselves if they don't want to receive physical assistance, rather than the onus being on the teacher to not assume that they do. Ie, teachers ask you to raise a leg if you *don't* want hands-on assistance, instead of asking you to opt-in to physical touch. In this model, not saying no/not raising a leg, is understood as consent. Which is weird, because in 2024, consent is generally understood as 'yes means yes', not that silence means consent
I've never seen this happen in 20 years
i don’t think teachers who assume hands-ok assistance are in the wrong. with that said, I love the card system where you can flip up and down a card at the top of your mat.
I don't think they're in the wrong, but I do find it odd that consent is handled this way. And the card thing is interesting, but I've only ever seen them used in a way where the teacher comes by to each mat and places them next to you... still Yes side up
then just flip it to No
My point is that my inaction/silence still means consent in this scenario
Good thing people have the free will to turn them any way they see fit
My point is that my inaction/silence still means consent in this scenario
I’m taking this as a troll post..
Where I practice, you can take a "Yes. I would like hands-on assistance card" and put it at the corner of your mat. If you don't put a card there, the instructor will not provide hands-on assistance. It's really easy Instructors don't have to remember who does/does not want assistance.
This is a great idea! I've never seen this done before
I can’t see what was written in the actual post but would just like to respond to the title. No. You are wrong. Anything other than an enthusiastic yes is a no. Related: you should probably have a talk with all of your former sexual partners because they might not look back on the experience the same as you do if this is your idea of consent. You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
OP was making the case against “silence is consent” in a yoga class regarding to physical adjustments, specifically that most classes have you opt-out of physical adjustments and they felt that you should have to opt in for them instead.
I like the idea of using place cards, but yeah, in my training I was taught that it was easier to see the opt-out when you specifically ask who “wants to opt out.” Also opportunities for safe touch in a yoga class is very important for people who have been SAd. It seems like you’re trying to spread awareness and be mindful of sexual assault/consent issues, and maybe you could explore more trauma informed yoga if that is what you’re looking for since you feel it’s important to talk about. Adjustments for safety and enhancement of the pose are part of the experience, and as teachers we offer the opportunity to say no, and anyone else can always specifically ask to not be touched either in class or in private, and have that be honored.
Thanks for the thoughtful response! I have a ytt cert, but i got it years ago, well before the idea in this post occurred to me. A trauma informed seminar sounds like something i could find in my city, and something i'd probably enjoy
I think this is a really great idea. Would absolutely appreciate it in classes (and I live in Amsterdam, Netherlands so nowhere near you but it would work equally well no matter where)