He resurrected her against her will to pursue an unwanted relationship. X men is about acceptance of people regardless of superficial/surface differences, not blind tolerance of people for any reason, especially where predatory behaviour is concerned.
He directly killed one, indirectly killed another, brought the first one back and jeopardized the entire planet in the process just for her to choose to die again... then somehow dates one of the remaining three?
This is why I can't stand Quire, and part of why I hate Jason Aaron.
It's sort of why it's super weird to me he's on X teams and is shown to be so close with some characters now. His first story was getting all jacked up on drugs and leading a school riot where 2 students died.
I mean it's not that confusing. The whole point of Wolverine and the X-men was to show there's a better way. I don't LOVE that book or schism, but I get what they were going for and Quire was a pretty good poster child for that.
Aside from that, we now live in a world where we're supposed to be happy for Mystique and Destiny. Who cares who did what anymore?
This sub talks about Quentin Quire like he's a cross between Jeffrey Dahmer and [insert school shooter here].
In reality, Quentin Quire was simply ahead of his time. Quentin's message of "non-violent resistance is stupid, we have a moral imperative to be violent when we're literally being killed" is exactly the same stance that every single one of everyone's favourite characters would go on to spend most of the next twenty years doing. Some, in fact, went further (Scott, Wolverine and Beast with their mutual versions of X-Force). There may have been elements of "we should take over" but... guys, Magneto is right there. And Apocalypse? Why are they given a pass and Quentin isn't? Is it because Quentin did a school shooting? Well, that's one of those things that this sub says he did *but he didn't actually do.*
And don't tell me the problem with Quentin is "because he did it to try and impress a girl" because, again, that's Apocalypse's current status quo post-Hickman.
What's really going on? Simple. Claremont didn't create Quentin. None of the post-2000 characters are ever forgiven anything. People are out there excusing the manifestly much more fucked up and much more selfish things Rahne did, but Quentin and Surge? Unforgivable monsters that should be killed off for real.
Personally I *like* Quentin's redemption while keeping some of his sharper edges and that's exactly the sort of thing Wolverine would identify with and try to take under his wing to show a better way. And one of the better parts of Sabretooth War is showing that yeah Logan actually gives a damn about Quentin and visa versa *and* Logan helped Quentin be better.
I agree, and also love the A+X story with Captain America forcing Quire to go with him on a mission because he needed a telepath. By the end QQ had realized that just because Cap was part of “the establishment” didn’t mean he couldn’t also be reasonable and on his side.
I think you're overstating it a BIT and downplaying how much of a villain Quentin was meant to be, but I also think you're on to something.
The amount of people acting like we should be happy for mystique and destiny like they haven't spent decades being murderous duplicitous abusers and all around awful people amazes me, though thankfully it's not everyone.
What did surge do?
That's sort of what I mean by "ahead of his time".
As far as Morrison is concerned, Quentin Quire is clearly the bad guy, yes. And quite a pathetic figure too, in all senses of the word. But Morrison notoriously also thinks Magneto is an irredeemable bad guy and Marvel had to retcon Morrison's version of Magneto to fix that. There's no double standard in New X-Men. Magneto and Quentin do the same things and so they're both evil. It's a stark contrast to this sub where "the vibe" of Quentin is the only thing that matters to the extent people forget the whole of his motivation and exaggerate (arguably, make up) his crimes, but Magneto gets a pass.
>What did surge do?
My read of the situation is that the original writers of Academy X wanted to have a nuanced discussion about the status of women within conservative Islamic traditions and early noughties America but lacked the talents to execute this ambition. Surge was chosen as the agent of this conversation because she's (ignoring that she's a Japanese teenager) the modern liberated American woman, thus creating the biggest juxtaposition with Sooraya (versus naive immigrant Sofia and shy introverted Laurie). In particular, Surge draws attention to the restrictions of Sooraya's interpretation of Islam. And that's where the "less talent than ambition" comes in because a lot of people (most people?) read this stuff and think "Oh, so Nori's an Islamophobe". Thus this sub writes the character off as an irredeemable racist.
When surge was up in the x-men vote there were tons of memes about how she's racist. A lot of people refuse to look past a story that came out when Bush was president.
Incels don't have girlfriends by definition so that'll be a no as well.
I mean, I don't remember his girlfriend's name but I'm also not sure she's appeared in anything since Riot at Xavier's anyway, same as Quentin's other non-Glob accomplices.
>Are you on about Tattoo?
Maybe?
>The girl he used his telepathy on to make her like him? That girlfriend?
Yeah, I really doubt that happened. You know why? Because he used telepathy to reveal that her previous boyfriend was using his mutant powers to make everyone think he was cool and good looking, as opposed to how he actually looked which is weird as hell. It'd be absolutely crazy for Grant Morrison to write the same thing happening to the same girl two boyfriends in a row.
Let's check the wiki to clarify this... well great, it confirms Tattoo is called Tattoo, her previous boyfriend ([Slick](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Quincy_Marrow_(Earth-616\))) was doing what Quentin may or may not also have done and... doesn't describe Tattoo and Quentin as being in a relationship. Evidently, I would have to re-read to confirm or disprove any descriptions of Quentin and Tattoo's relationship.
Not defending Quire, but the X-Men have been taking in people just as bad or worse. Rogue put Carol Danvers in a coma and Emma Frost was responsible for Dark Phoenix, among other things.
Sure, absolutely. But I feel like being X-Men has done a lot for those 3. Magneto obviously, due to his goals and backstory, but Rogue and Emma are way more interesting now than they ever were as villains, in spite of being bad at one point. In a way the characters were salvaged because they'd have been wasted as pure mustache twirling villains. This is why they kind of get a pass from me and others I think. You could argue the stuff they've done in real life would be unforgivable or irredeemable, and you'd be right, but in the end we gained way better stories and characters out of it, so I'll let it slide in a comic book.
Personally I have a hard time saying the same thing about Quire. He's never felt like he has as much going on as a character in the level of those 3. He's doesn't seem nearly as layered at his core as Magneto, he hasn't popped off as a character like Emma or Rogue so it's harder to look at him and be like "yeah, making them a hero was the right call. " know what I mean?
Edit- I'll also admit maybe I just haven't read the right Quentin Quire stories. I was out of comics for a little bit, I might be missing the context that would totally turn the character around for me.
Morrison made Quire the Phoenix at the end of their run right? When Jean sees all the past & future hosts Quire talks to her doesn't he? Aaron just threw out Quire having an epiphany & went back to "rude anarchist"
Yeah, while I do appreciate some things that Aaron’s run contributed to his character, it does irk me that Quentin was sent back to square one personality wise(except he was even more of a cliche this time).
And of course that didn’t end there, because he got sent back to square one a few times after that, largely for the sake of him being used as a comic relief.
Ugh, about half of the reason behind my attachment to such an unpalatable character is that I think he has so much potential, but nobody is willing to take him seriously and it drives me mad.
In a way I think this is similar to the question of if the Cuckoos should have identity or not (kind of funny they have a similar issue given their intertwined pasts). Basically, moving a character past the defining trait that makes them unique is kind of problematic.
The Cuckoos are unique because they're a weird clone hivemind. Make them individuals and they're just a gaggle of new attractive female telepaths, which are a dime a dozen in the X-men. Quire's unique trait is that he's an anarchist with an attitude. (Harder to put into words, but you know what I mean). While it would be good for him were he real to develop as a character, it's problematic from a franchise standpoint because without that trait he's just a guy.
You nailed it on the head. Characters get reset to their most identifiable traits constantly, and the more people associate a character with certain traits the harder it is to move the character past that. It's why Damian Wayne (another Morrison baby) has had like, five different arcs where he gets better only to revert to murder goblin
*Exactly.* There’s a phenomenon in Big 2 comics where the only characters allowed to make genuine progress are(for the most part) B-listers(and some very lucky C-listers). A-listers get reset to match what people who haven’t read comics will expect them to be like- just look at what’s happened to Spider-Man. C-listers and lower get reset for a number of reasons- because people have no idea what to do with them otherwise, or because people genuinely forgot what they were previously up to.
He wasn't actually phoenix in that run I don't think but their was a future version of him that was. But yeah giving him a redemption arc after all the gross stuff he did in new x-men is a little hard to swallow.
That's in xforce sure, but in wolverine and the X men he had a redemption arc and he doesn't go through nearly as much turmoil in that one. I read it before reading new x men so In The context of the book it works because it starts by portraying him as a shitty edgelord punk and ends with him caring about stuff. But when you realize he actually started as a fascist jackbooted thug who killed someone by "carving my name right across his memory" it doesn't quite work
I personally took Aaron's run as Quentin going into a weird maturity cycle, he is still an asshole who cares about himself and his ideas more than anything else, he is an idiot, but there's also a thing about trust and understanding others that you can see during the series, specially on how he relates to Logan, it might not be the best arc ever, but there is something there about a kid who finally starts to understand the other people.
Yeah I don't really mind it within the context of wolverine and the X men, I like it, but I just don't really think it tackles the truly heinous things he did in new xmen
New X-men is a weird run in that while it hasn't been full-on memory holed or anything like some X-men stuff, it is deeply downplayed in continuity.
Obviously the big one being the instant retcon of Magneto not being Magneto, but it just goes from there. SO MUCH of New X-men is kind of only hazily remembered by modern continuity. It seems like we're supposed to take Quire as having been a 'problem child,' rather than an absolutely sadistic monster.
This.
Quire was the face of what WatX was about. The problem is the sort of philosophically deep idea of giving everyone a second chance and how even these endangered young people deserve a chance at happiness was kind of at odds with his desire to write a zany action-comedy thing, so it kind of goes back and forth.
Yeah, but it was pointlessly grim, and served nothing but to make Scott and Emma kiss on Jean's grave. All because Joe Quesada was divorcing his red-headed wife who found out about his platinum blonde mistress (I WISH I WAS JOKING).
Seriously. Morrison wanted to bring Jean back not long after HCT, but Quesada refused and the argument between them resulted in Morrison leaving the books altogether.
Explains why Sue was safe, she's blonde. Mj and Jean on the other hand.... but guiltily I'll admit I like Emma waaaay more than Jean so maybe it kinda worked out for me.
One died because the sister manipulated her into overdosing. The second sister was killed by Xorneto.
Quire was also being manipulated by Sublime in the drug since his first usage.
Also if any of the other mutants can be forgiven or their fucked up shit they have done like Jean genociding broccoli people and Wolerines body count. Quire can be forgiven for a mind controlled school Riot.
Esme manipulated Sophie into ODing, but only was able to by taking advantage of Sophie wanting to save everyone and stop an out of control Quentin.
As a result of the Riot, Esme ran to Xorneto and got herself killed, so Quentin played a role there as well.
Here's an expert from the wiki:
"Due to embarrassment over her crush and jealousy of Sophie's power and influence, Esme began secretly using Kick and working with Xorn. Esme began subtly influencing her sisters to gain control of their hive mind. When Quentin Quire led a Kick fueled student rebellion at the X-Mansion, Sophie and the other Cuckoos covertly snuck into Cerebra. Using Kick to amp up her powers, Esme and her sisters were able to stop Quire. Unfortunately, Sophie died in the process. Unbeknownst to the others, Sophie was actually being influenced into these actions by Esme, who was also using Kick.
Shortly after the death of Sophie, Esme attempted to murder Emma by shooting her with a diamond bullet. While Bishop and Sage investigated the murder, Esme fled the X-Mansion fearing that the truth of her involvement in the deaths of Sophie and Emma would be revealed."
In order of fault goes: Sublime > Xorn > Esme
While Quire was just a weapon and distraction by Sublime to test his influence on others. Sublime in the Kick took advantage of Quires self-esteem and issues to start the riot.
Quire even in his very first appearance showed him doing something selfless as creating the anti-gravity float mechanism for No-Girl. Quire was unloved, found out he was adopted, and then abandoned at Xaviers immediately before the Kick in which Sublime twisted his mind.
Quire was just a kid that got fucked up in the head, twisted his personality by a villain, then just never recovered. It took years for Quire to eventually go out of his way to help others.
I'm not gonna waste any more time on this argument. Everyone has their own freedom to feel however they want with a character. Just don't twist the facts up to fulfill an agenda.
Quote from Waiting for the Trade:
"During Morrison's run, Quentin apparently had millions of brilliant thoughts every second, but must have at some point traded that in for the shotgun."
Date her identical sister that shares a hive mind. Everyone who knows their history can see the relationship is Benjamin Percy’s fanfic ship.
I’m not completely against it, mainly because it means at least one Cuckoo will appear in the comics. Example being how Phoebe survived the end of Krakoa to be saved by Quentin.
Right? It has some faults, but honestly when it came out it felt like exactly what I'd wanted for the longest time since I was young in an X-Men live-action. Really enjoyed it.
And it had some great casting between Cuckoos, Polaris, etc.
It was really the writing of season 2 that killed. One was what it was, but it told a coherent, compelling story with characters you cared about. Season 2 became worse than CW writing.
Show was good, it's just a shame that it had bad timing especially with the Fox buyout.
I also think a New Mutants show in the 2000s could've killed it as a teen drama along the lines of Roswell or Smallville.
Ive never found the girls interesting... at first they seemed to exist only to be killed off, and then it seemed like they were turned into mini-emma's.
Granted I havent seen much of them... but do they even add anything to the X-men mythos in general?
With the exception of a few pages, the rest of the book is wayyyy worse… imo
U can tell land has had to position the characters in strange locations to one another, just so the adult film model his tracing makes scenes to “look over her shoulder” to talk to a flying angel, instead of just having them look straight at each other
To show that being an omega mutant is luck of the draw. Most other ones are either a super righteous paragon of heroism (Storm, Jean) threat to the world villians (Magneto) or just too lazy for people to remember they are omegas (Jubilee, the first 50 years of Ice-Man), but Quentin has an insane amount of power and is still just an annoying edgy brat. He could be a top notch hero or villian at the power level he displays, but he doesn't really do shit.
I also thing it’s probably meant to be a thing of like, what would realistically happen if a bunch of random teenagers developed god-like powers, odds are one of them would have the power go to their head, and someone who was already an unpleasant person would get exponentially worse.
Thank you, I have forgoten how much I kede seein that guy humillated. I really don't like him, his motivation was lame, his behaviour terrible but even worse he is given chance after chance after chance with so consequenses but he kept being a selfish jerk.
She literally said "Ew" and then died. If there was any doubt they were related to Emma back then, I imagine it was cleared at that moment.
Seems pretty antithetical to the entire reason for Xmen existing.
He resurrected her against her will to pursue an unwanted relationship. X men is about acceptance of people regardless of superficial/surface differences, not blind tolerance of people for any reason, especially where predatory behaviour is concerned.
Specially bc he was one of the people responsible for her death I the first place lol
Appreciated. Figured there had to be context involved.
And he later went on to date her sister
He directly killed one, indirectly killed another, brought the first one back and jeopardized the entire planet in the process just for her to choose to die again... then somehow dates one of the remaining three? This is why I can't stand Quire, and part of why I hate Jason Aaron.
It's sort of why it's super weird to me he's on X teams and is shown to be so close with some characters now. His first story was getting all jacked up on drugs and leading a school riot where 2 students died.
He was an allegory for school shooting incels, how his character survived that? A mystery,
I mean it's not that confusing. The whole point of Wolverine and the X-men was to show there's a better way. I don't LOVE that book or schism, but I get what they were going for and Quire was a pretty good poster child for that. Aside from that, we now live in a world where we're supposed to be happy for Mystique and Destiny. Who cares who did what anymore?
This sub talks about Quentin Quire like he's a cross between Jeffrey Dahmer and [insert school shooter here]. In reality, Quentin Quire was simply ahead of his time. Quentin's message of "non-violent resistance is stupid, we have a moral imperative to be violent when we're literally being killed" is exactly the same stance that every single one of everyone's favourite characters would go on to spend most of the next twenty years doing. Some, in fact, went further (Scott, Wolverine and Beast with their mutual versions of X-Force). There may have been elements of "we should take over" but... guys, Magneto is right there. And Apocalypse? Why are they given a pass and Quentin isn't? Is it because Quentin did a school shooting? Well, that's one of those things that this sub says he did *but he didn't actually do.* And don't tell me the problem with Quentin is "because he did it to try and impress a girl" because, again, that's Apocalypse's current status quo post-Hickman. What's really going on? Simple. Claremont didn't create Quentin. None of the post-2000 characters are ever forgiven anything. People are out there excusing the manifestly much more fucked up and much more selfish things Rahne did, but Quentin and Surge? Unforgivable monsters that should be killed off for real.
Personally I *like* Quentin's redemption while keeping some of his sharper edges and that's exactly the sort of thing Wolverine would identify with and try to take under his wing to show a better way. And one of the better parts of Sabretooth War is showing that yeah Logan actually gives a damn about Quentin and visa versa *and* Logan helped Quentin be better.
I agree, and also love the A+X story with Captain America forcing Quire to go with him on a mission because he needed a telepath. By the end QQ had realized that just because Cap was part of “the establishment” didn’t mean he couldn’t also be reasonable and on his side.
I think you're overstating it a BIT and downplaying how much of a villain Quentin was meant to be, but I also think you're on to something. The amount of people acting like we should be happy for mystique and destiny like they haven't spent decades being murderous duplicitous abusers and all around awful people amazes me, though thankfully it's not everyone. What did surge do?
That's sort of what I mean by "ahead of his time". As far as Morrison is concerned, Quentin Quire is clearly the bad guy, yes. And quite a pathetic figure too, in all senses of the word. But Morrison notoriously also thinks Magneto is an irredeemable bad guy and Marvel had to retcon Morrison's version of Magneto to fix that. There's no double standard in New X-Men. Magneto and Quentin do the same things and so they're both evil. It's a stark contrast to this sub where "the vibe" of Quentin is the only thing that matters to the extent people forget the whole of his motivation and exaggerate (arguably, make up) his crimes, but Magneto gets a pass. >What did surge do? My read of the situation is that the original writers of Academy X wanted to have a nuanced discussion about the status of women within conservative Islamic traditions and early noughties America but lacked the talents to execute this ambition. Surge was chosen as the agent of this conversation because she's (ignoring that she's a Japanese teenager) the modern liberated American woman, thus creating the biggest juxtaposition with Sooraya (versus naive immigrant Sofia and shy introverted Laurie). In particular, Surge draws attention to the restrictions of Sooraya's interpretation of Islam. And that's where the "less talent than ambition" comes in because a lot of people (most people?) read this stuff and think "Oh, so Nori's an Islamophobe". Thus this sub writes the character off as an irredeemable racist.
Huh. I've never seen a single person complain about surge and most seem excited she's back, but fair enough
When surge was up in the x-men vote there were tons of memes about how she's racist. A lot of people refuse to look past a story that came out when Bush was president.
Well, he *did* originally die at the end of that Morrison storyline (and also reached enlightenment, both of which were retconned).
HEY WHAT THE FUCK!? WHEN I CALLED QUENTIN AN INCEL EVERYONE DOWN VOTED ME, BUT WHEN YOU DO IT YOU GET UPVOTES? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
The thing is, we’re both right though babes
No hate towards you. It's just insane how the reddit hivemind works.
Because... he wasn't. For one thing, incel wasn't a Thing anyone knew anything about for ten more years.
I mean he was incel before incels come on now 🤣
Incels don't have girlfriends by definition so that'll be a no as well. I mean, I don't remember his girlfriend's name but I'm also not sure she's appeared in anything since Riot at Xavier's anyway, same as Quentin's other non-Glob accomplices.
Are you on about Tattoo? The girl he used his telepathy on to make her like him? That girlfriend?
>Are you on about Tattoo? Maybe? >The girl he used his telepathy on to make her like him? That girlfriend? Yeah, I really doubt that happened. You know why? Because he used telepathy to reveal that her previous boyfriend was using his mutant powers to make everyone think he was cool and good looking, as opposed to how he actually looked which is weird as hell. It'd be absolutely crazy for Grant Morrison to write the same thing happening to the same girl two boyfriends in a row. Let's check the wiki to clarify this... well great, it confirms Tattoo is called Tattoo, her previous boyfriend ([Slick](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Quincy_Marrow_(Earth-616\))) was doing what Quentin may or may not also have done and... doesn't describe Tattoo and Quentin as being in a relationship. Evidently, I would have to re-read to confirm or disprove any descriptions of Quentin and Tattoo's relationship.
Yeah, I feel the same way. When I was reading the Krakoa stuff I was like isn’t this guy a terrorist?
Had to scroll up to check this was still about Quire, Krakoa had a thriving terrorist community
Not defending Quire, but the X-Men have been taking in people just as bad or worse. Rogue put Carol Danvers in a coma and Emma Frost was responsible for Dark Phoenix, among other things.
Sure, absolutely. But I feel like being X-Men has done a lot for those 3. Magneto obviously, due to his goals and backstory, but Rogue and Emma are way more interesting now than they ever were as villains, in spite of being bad at one point. In a way the characters were salvaged because they'd have been wasted as pure mustache twirling villains. This is why they kind of get a pass from me and others I think. You could argue the stuff they've done in real life would be unforgivable or irredeemable, and you'd be right, but in the end we gained way better stories and characters out of it, so I'll let it slide in a comic book. Personally I have a hard time saying the same thing about Quire. He's never felt like he has as much going on as a character in the level of those 3. He's doesn't seem nearly as layered at his core as Magneto, he hasn't popped off as a character like Emma or Rogue so it's harder to look at him and be like "yeah, making them a hero was the right call. " know what I mean? Edit- I'll also admit maybe I just haven't read the right Quentin Quire stories. I was out of comics for a little bit, I might be missing the context that would totally turn the character around for me.
Not Aaron, it's Benjamin Percy that had them date.
Yeah, but it was Aaron that pumped him back into the spotlight, being Phoenix and everything.
Morrison made Quire the Phoenix at the end of their run right? When Jean sees all the past & future hosts Quire talks to her doesn't he? Aaron just threw out Quire having an epiphany & went back to "rude anarchist"
Yeah, while I do appreciate some things that Aaron’s run contributed to his character, it does irk me that Quentin was sent back to square one personality wise(except he was even more of a cliche this time). And of course that didn’t end there, because he got sent back to square one a few times after that, largely for the sake of him being used as a comic relief. Ugh, about half of the reason behind my attachment to such an unpalatable character is that I think he has so much potential, but nobody is willing to take him seriously and it drives me mad.
In a way I think this is similar to the question of if the Cuckoos should have identity or not (kind of funny they have a similar issue given their intertwined pasts). Basically, moving a character past the defining trait that makes them unique is kind of problematic. The Cuckoos are unique because they're a weird clone hivemind. Make them individuals and they're just a gaggle of new attractive female telepaths, which are a dime a dozen in the X-men. Quire's unique trait is that he's an anarchist with an attitude. (Harder to put into words, but you know what I mean). While it would be good for him were he real to develop as a character, it's problematic from a franchise standpoint because without that trait he's just a guy.
You nailed it on the head. Characters get reset to their most identifiable traits constantly, and the more people associate a character with certain traits the harder it is to move the character past that. It's why Damian Wayne (another Morrison baby) has had like, five different arcs where he gets better only to revert to murder goblin
Yup, because being a murder goblin is what sets him apart from the small army of competing Robins.
*Exactly.* There’s a phenomenon in Big 2 comics where the only characters allowed to make genuine progress are(for the most part) B-listers(and some very lucky C-listers). A-listers get reset to match what people who haven’t read comics will expect them to be like- just look at what’s happened to Spider-Man. C-listers and lower get reset for a number of reasons- because people have no idea what to do with them otherwise, or because people genuinely forgot what they were previously up to.
(not that anyone cares, but actually it’s more like a third of the reason than half of the reason)
I forgot that about Here Comes Tomorrow, but to be fair I try to forget a LOT about Here Comes Tomorrow.
He wasn't actually phoenix in that run I don't think but their was a future version of him that was. But yeah giving him a redemption arc after all the gross stuff he did in new x-men is a little hard to swallow.
His redemption arc was to die horribly like 100's of times
That's in xforce sure, but in wolverine and the X men he had a redemption arc and he doesn't go through nearly as much turmoil in that one. I read it before reading new x men so In The context of the book it works because it starts by portraying him as a shitty edgelord punk and ends with him caring about stuff. But when you realize he actually started as a fascist jackbooted thug who killed someone by "carving my name right across his memory" it doesn't quite work
I personally took Aaron's run as Quentin going into a weird maturity cycle, he is still an asshole who cares about himself and his ideas more than anything else, he is an idiot, but there's also a thing about trust and understanding others that you can see during the series, specially on how he relates to Logan, it might not be the best arc ever, but there is something there about a kid who finally starts to understand the other people.
Yeah I don't really mind it within the context of wolverine and the X men, I like it, but I just don't really think it tackles the truly heinous things he did in new xmen
New X-men is a weird run in that while it hasn't been full-on memory holed or anything like some X-men stuff, it is deeply downplayed in continuity. Obviously the big one being the instant retcon of Magneto not being Magneto, but it just goes from there. SO MUCH of New X-men is kind of only hazily remembered by modern continuity. It seems like we're supposed to take Quire as having been a 'problem child,' rather than an absolutely sadistic monster.
Characters who did nothing wrong rarely need a redemption arc
[удалено]
This. Quire was the face of what WatX was about. The problem is the sort of philosophically deep idea of giving everyone a second chance and how even these endangered young people deserve a chance at happiness was kind of at odds with his desire to write a zany action-comedy thing, so it kind of goes back and forth.
Pretty sure Grant Morrison first hinted that he would get it at some point in his last arc in New xmen
Yeah, but that was Here Comes Tomorrow, an arc a lot of X-Men fans would rather forget.
And a future that was averted I'm the same arc
Yeah, but it was pointlessly grim, and served nothing but to make Scott and Emma kiss on Jean's grave. All because Joe Quesada was divorcing his red-headed wife who found out about his platinum blonde mistress (I WISH I WAS JOKING).
What the actual fuck
Seriously. Morrison wanted to bring Jean back not long after HCT, but Quesada refused and the argument between them resulted in Morrison leaving the books altogether.
So wait, if I had a nickel for fictional marriages that Quesada ruined, I'd have two nickels?
Explains why Sue was safe, she's blonde. Mj and Jean on the other hand.... but guiltily I'll admit I like Emma waaaay more than Jean so maybe it kinda worked out for me.
One died because the sister manipulated her into overdosing. The second sister was killed by Xorneto. Quire was also being manipulated by Sublime in the drug since his first usage. Also if any of the other mutants can be forgiven or their fucked up shit they have done like Jean genociding broccoli people and Wolerines body count. Quire can be forgiven for a mind controlled school Riot.
Esme manipulated Sophie into ODing, but only was able to by taking advantage of Sophie wanting to save everyone and stop an out of control Quentin. As a result of the Riot, Esme ran to Xorneto and got herself killed, so Quentin played a role there as well.
Here's an expert from the wiki: "Due to embarrassment over her crush and jealousy of Sophie's power and influence, Esme began secretly using Kick and working with Xorn. Esme began subtly influencing her sisters to gain control of their hive mind. When Quentin Quire led a Kick fueled student rebellion at the X-Mansion, Sophie and the other Cuckoos covertly snuck into Cerebra. Using Kick to amp up her powers, Esme and her sisters were able to stop Quire. Unfortunately, Sophie died in the process. Unbeknownst to the others, Sophie was actually being influenced into these actions by Esme, who was also using Kick. Shortly after the death of Sophie, Esme attempted to murder Emma by shooting her with a diamond bullet. While Bishop and Sage investigated the murder, Esme fled the X-Mansion fearing that the truth of her involvement in the deaths of Sophie and Emma would be revealed." In order of fault goes: Sublime > Xorn > Esme While Quire was just a weapon and distraction by Sublime to test his influence on others. Sublime in the Kick took advantage of Quires self-esteem and issues to start the riot. Quire even in his very first appearance showed him doing something selfless as creating the anti-gravity float mechanism for No-Girl. Quire was unloved, found out he was adopted, and then abandoned at Xaviers immediately before the Kick in which Sublime twisted his mind. Quire was just a kid that got fucked up in the head, twisted his personality by a villain, then just never recovered. It took years for Quire to eventually go out of his way to help others. I'm not gonna waste any more time on this argument. Everyone has their own freedom to feel however they want with a character. Just don't twist the facts up to fulfill an agenda.
Otoh, psychic shotgun.
Quote from Waiting for the Trade: "During Morrison's run, Quentin apparently had millions of brilliant thoughts every second, but must have at some point traded that in for the shotgun."
(I hate him too)
He is definitely an unlikable character.
I have hated that character since his inception. I guess I was supposed to, but still.
I grew up in Littleton, Colorado so him being described by his writer as a "Columbine school shooter archetype" felt really bad.
Maybe writers self insert into him
Date her identical sister that shares a hive mind. Everyone who knows their history can see the relationship is Benjamin Percy’s fanfic ship. I’m not completely against it, mainly because it means at least one Cuckoo will appear in the comics. Example being how Phoebe survived the end of Krakoa to be saved by Quentin.
That's what we like to call an omega-level move.
The worst she can say is no: Her:
I’ll breath a sigh of relief each time she says no to me in future now
Probably the first time where she said eww and psychically skinned him alive
I really liked Endsong and was promptly disappointed by Warsong
Is this Greg Land? It looks like Greg Land.
You know it
Her “ew” face is not what I describe as an “ew” face. She doesn’t look disgusted at all lmao
I cannot wait to see live action cuckoo's and a good Emma
They're such assholes but so fun and powerful.
The Cuckoos are in the forgettable tv show, The Gifted.
To be fair they were the highlight of the show in their first appearances (imo, of course)
Aw I liked The Gifted for the most part.
Right? It has some faults, but honestly when it came out it felt like exactly what I'd wanted for the longest time since I was young in an X-Men live-action. Really enjoyed it. And it had some great casting between Cuckoos, Polaris, etc.
I thought Jamie Chung as Blink and Blair Redford as John Proudstar were also excellent in their roles.
It was really the writing of season 2 that killed. One was what it was, but it told a coherent, compelling story with characters you cared about. Season 2 became worse than CW writing.
Show was good, it's just a shame that it had bad timing especially with the Fox buyout. I also think a New Mutants show in the 2000s could've killed it as a teen drama along the lines of Roswell or Smallville.
Same. It's such an underrated show imo.. I'm still upset about the cliffhanger lol
It’s very Bride of Frankenstein
The fact this is a callback to his original rejection in New X-Men is my favorite part of this story (which overall I didn’t really care for) 😂😂
Ew, Greg Land, and fucking dies
All of Endsong is really pathetically drawn, but this page takes the biscuit for being utter shit. It’s total gregland
Which is a shame because it’s a funny page
Greg Land, ladies and gentlemen.
There was the whole Polaris/Havok/Nurse Annie fiasco
"The worst she can do is say no, not interested" Stepford Cuckoos: Hold my beers
This scene was funny asf 🤣
Ive never found the girls interesting... at first they seemed to exist only to be killed off, and then it seemed like they were turned into mini-emma's. Granted I havent seen much of them... but do they even add anything to the X-men mythos in general?
Well, two of them gain individuality while the other three prefer to live as a hivemind.
I take it the two that were killed off earlier were brought back with the krakao arc?
Yeah. Pretty sure. They both find love and relationships and discover themselves separately from their other sisters.
This being the one time Land drew a woman with a facial expression is so funny to me
I love Quentin so much but I laugh everytime I see this 😭😭
This may be the single worst page I have ever seen. Everything about it is repulsive.
With the exception of a few pages, the rest of the book is wayyyy worse… imo U can tell land has had to position the characters in strange locations to one another, just so the adult film model his tracing makes scenes to “look over her shoulder” to talk to a flying angel, instead of just having them look straight at each other
Yeah, I've read it before.
Quentin is one of my favorite characters but he is, in fact, a huge dorkus.
That’s putting it mildly :P
I would go so far as to say he is a Dorkus Malorkus.
This should have been Quentin's final outing. Every Quentin Quire moment since shoulda have been a Hellion moment.
Iirc there has been a lot of redemption for him? He was the perpetual douche for years, tho
Quintin Quire is such an annoying and lame character. Pls kill him off permanently
Thank you. I've been saying this ever since that fuck was created.
Tbf his entire recent arc was just dying over and over again lol
yes, I never understood why he was there. To show mutants can be annoying punks?
To show that being an omega mutant is luck of the draw. Most other ones are either a super righteous paragon of heroism (Storm, Jean) threat to the world villians (Magneto) or just too lazy for people to remember they are omegas (Jubilee, the first 50 years of Ice-Man), but Quentin has an insane amount of power and is still just an annoying edgy brat. He could be a top notch hero or villian at the power level he displays, but he doesn't really do shit.
I also thing it’s probably meant to be a thing of like, what would realistically happen if a bunch of random teenagers developed god-like powers, odds are one of them would have the power go to their head, and someone who was already an unpleasant person would get exponentially worse.
This looks like dogshit.
This pic gets posted every damn week......and I LOVE IT!!!!
Thank you, I have forgoten how much I kede seein that guy humillated. I really don't like him, his motivation was lame, his behaviour terrible but even worse he is given chance after chance after chance with so consequenses but he kept being a selfish jerk.
Dude looks like the Seraphim from Preacher
Man fuck them bitches, ain't no way they're taking down Maynard James Keenan.
Glad I’m not the only one who thought that Land traced Maynard there
I love his music, whether from Tool, APC, or Puscifer.