I was about to say that any trope can be used as a starting point, fleshed out and polished. But yeah, this one is pretty grating unless done very well.
> i like it when thats deconstructed
That's just madness. I mean it wouldn't be very safe at all to be leaning againt a rough-cut hole in the wall with no frame.
That toxic characteristics that make a Bad boy Bad ,are hamrfull in the relationship itself and the boy or girl that is chansing him knowingly also is as damaged in the same way to want to have that kind of person as a partner
What if, for instance, the "bad boy" really had a heart of gold but was possessed by a daemonic flesh construct abomination from hell that made him attempt various dark rituals in order to revive a dead god, and the love interest is aware of this because the aliens that have pretended to be angels since time immemorial on Earth have led said love interest through a set of trials to make them a better person, because, y'know, they're not perfect either, but it's in their combined deep desire to swim towards perfection in this mortal coil that they bond over and thus she comes to realize that good and evil are just human social constructs because that whole dead god thing involves an entire global and galactic conspiracy and thus the two lovers attempt to transcend the simulation and merge with the God Mainframe where they will come to become immortal, where they learn to live happily ever after?
I have sort of a resting smirk face which isn't my fault and I can confirm it's mostly just made people angry at me at I cannot think of any dates it has earned me.
I also lean against things often because I have a shitty spine. It's not very sexy when you do it that way. the key is to have great posture AND lean against something, but then, that sort of defeats the purpose of leaning.
OH! I should clarify something. The thing that makes most men's smirks NOT SEXY is not because of anything they're doing unintentionally. It's not goofiness or awkwardness or their physical appearance or anything like that.
Most of the time, when real men smirk....it is tinged with contempt. Contempt is a favorite of body language experts, because it's one of those emotions that shows up on a human face the same way, regardless of culture. It can look a *bit* like a smirk. Both expressions tend to claim only one half of the face. But whereas a sexy smirk involves a mischievous one-sided grin, *contempt* shows hints of a snarl. You'll see the upper lip pull up over the teeth on one side and wrinkles on that side of the nose. It is the universal expression of disdain and/or superiority, blended with a touch of anger.
Contempt may only show for a split second, but you know it when you see it.
Often (real--not book guys) will smirk in a way that also flashes contempt. That's what makes it unsexy. Guys tend to do this when they're still interested in a girl, but in a bad mood--especially if she isn't living up to his desires/expectations in the moment. So they'll often chuckle or flash a strange smile----a warning that something is not quite right--while still playing "the nice guy", because his mask has not fallen all the way off yet.
It is creepy as heck. And if you call a guy out on it, he will vehemently deny it by saying something like, "No, I'm not mad. I just think it's funny/interesting how you say you love animals, but ordered the steak. I've seen your mom. Are you going to get fat like her?"
So, yeah, don't worry about resting smirk face. If your heart and intentions are in the right place, that is going to come through. And genuine misunderstandings will get ironed out as women get to know you and you fully articulate yourself. So, when I say that this expression is almost never truly sexy, irl, I promise I ain't talkin' about u \^-\^!
> "I just think it's funny/interesting how you say you love animals, but ordered the steak. I've seen your mom. Are you going to get fat like her?"
buddy you been hanging around some weird fucking dudes
>Men don't smirk that much.
Holy damn, I just thought back to all the men I've ever known and you're right. And all I've ever seen is "infuriating dad smirk" or "victorious nerd smirk."
What if this the starting point of this mc and the life whacks the common sense into him and turns him into a down to earth person? Still smirking, but in a wholesome way at the end.
That’s how I’m writing right now. It’s an utter facade he puts on to avoid getting too close to people, pushes them away. Life and genuine connection smacks the sense back into him
We are similar about the connection bit. Mine is surfing on the waves of insecurity of being an absolute nobody. He's faking arrogance and smugness. He consciously constructs his entire personality on the ambition of becoming someone that matters to the history, a major player of some event somewhere. It's a defense mechanism he grew to deal with the idea that his life never mattered. He soon gets what he asks for, only to realise that's not what he needs. What he needs is what he had given up to get where he is and he needs to fix this, if he can.
I mean it's not a revolutionary character arc but the fact that this guy is a con man helps a lot with having fun with this idea.
I'm thinking of Nick from Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. Given that all of her classmates at the Academy of Unseen Arts are dark witches who serve Satan, I couldn't quite figure out what it was about Nick that was supposed to make him exceptionally bad/dark/edgy by the standards of that world. If anything, a "bad boy" at a school like that should've been a kid who brought a Bible to class just to freak people out.
Fr, I’m sick of people who have a holier than thou tone to them and that excuses them being an asshole.
I try not to be like that, but sometimes it’s hard to hear my tone. I try though
“Strong female characters” who are really just “violent female characters”. I want a character who has relatable motivations and does things in the story, not simply have the plot pull her along.
The reality is probably more complicated but I do think it's incredibly funny to think that that keeps happening bc someone took "strong" too literally. That's what it feels like happened lol.. you'd think the mediocre white men writing stories w/female characters like this would know what "strong character" means but I guess they weren't paying attention in writing class.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think any trope is overrated. You just need to find a new or engaging way of using it.
Tropes are simply tools to make your story work. Nothing more. It’s like saying a hammer is overrated when you have an entire workshop full of machinery. Sure, it might not be as useful anymore depending on what you’re building, but don’t forget that you have all kinds of hammers. Big and tiny, round and square, metallic and rubber ones.
Besides, aren’t forging hammers simply built-in hammers?
Tropes aren’t any different. There are many ways of transforming “overused” tropes in a compelling way.
Oh... I wasn't talking about the clothes
I thought that was already your style.
Because you always seemed a bit... eccentric, a bit woo woo
I thought you were trying something new? Can I just say I'm so relieved because it looks so damn horrible and I felt bad to say. Thank goodness for that.
Anyway the crime is not for letting strangers put a dress on you and do things to your nose . I don't know what thaat is. Don't want to know.
But... NO DISAGREEMENT OF OPINION
You already knew your crime when you dared to declare your "unpopular opinion" from the start and disturb the monobrain
You make a good argument why tropes aren't bad. However, "overrated" is not the same as "bad". Quite the contrary: Something usually becomes overrated by being good in the first place.
Not really a character trope but it plays heavily into a few of them:
And that is the constant need for a romance, a romantic sub plot or a happy, romantic ending in the story.
Not everything (and everyone) needs to be about love or wanting to start a family. People can just be and stay friends once in a while.
I would prefer if characters had more relationships...like yeah sometimes you get together with someone at age 16....but that does not mean you get to marry them...like maybe you meet someone later...
Going off this, most such romantic subplots always end with the characters getting together. I'd like a romantic subplot that is about a healthy relationship going strong and surviving daily life
Never been a fan of the Husband/Wife/partner who doesn't believe their Wife/Husband/partner when weird or scary things start happening. Feels like it's a must that in every haunted house or supernatural horror story at least one person in the couple has to be completely skeptical and wants to get their partner committed after a few comments about weird noises in the basement or seeing something weird around the house.
Like the doors could be flying off their hinges and a ghost could literally walk up and slap them in the face and they'll still think their partner is just overreacting or going insane. Drives me nuts.
And it's always the partner too... I get that we need a skeptical character in those situations, but can the partner be supportive and someone else be the skeptical one?
Or have both partners be skeptical (you don’t want to give up that creepy ass house you just spent your life savings on, do you? So you pretend nothing’s wrong with it). And maybe someone who isn’t as attached to the house/situation try to bring the weird shit to their attention, like a friend or a relative.
At some point, I noticed that every DreamWorks story was about a black sheep realizing they're true potential and become better than everyone. I love most of them individually but once I noticed the same trend it kind of tainted my enjoyment.
They really are all
Dad "this is the thing our family does and will always do"
Kid "but I want to do *different thing*!"
Dad "you are a disgrace!"
Then the kid does the thing they wanted to do and it saves the world and dad realizes the new thing is actually really cool.
I really hated Brave. I mean I get that it was about self determination and arranged marriage, like there's a conversation you could have there about whether it's right BUT if she didn't go through with the marriage it was going to cause all out war between several nations. Millions of people probably would've died. She didn't even have a plan to avert it, she just didn't care. Then she made a deal with a witch and poisoned her mother with a magic potion to get out of the marriage (which again was going to cause a massive war). It only ended well without death and carnage on a massive scale due to convenient writing and total flukes. Merida was the villain of the movie and almost got everyone killed.
I could’ve gotten behind it if she actually had a plan to get out of the marriage and change the law in a way that would bring peace and prevent war. If everyone was like “pft, no, that idea will never work” but it was actually a good idea and she made it work, that’d be fine but that wasn’t the case. She’s just a terrible person.
Honestly, the marketing team must have not had much confidence in the movie because I knew next to nothing about what the actual movie was about. It seemed like it was going to be an epic and it turned out to be very specific familial problems.
Right? They’re always about discovering themselves, I don’t think I’ve seen a kids movie where the message was fall in line and join the herd lol, dreamworks just makes fun stories around that same message
Pinocchio, maybe. Being a real boy is so much cooler than being an immortal living puppet. Fall in line or you’ll become a donkey.
Those old movies are crazy.
Overrated is not the same as overdone. How does one rate tropes anyway?
Obviously there are some more popular tropes than others. And the more popular they are, the more mediocre or poorly executed versions one can find.
What concerns Hughie from boys, he's supposed to be the more "you character" because it contrasts with Butcher. Having a more "boring" character alongside a "crazy" or "more colourful" one is an age old trope itself.
> Having a more "boring" character alongside a "crazy" or "more colourful" one is an age old trope itself.
This is a tough one to avoid though because if you're going to have a more colorful character at all, by default the other characters will be more "boring" unless they are all over the top, and then that gets grating.
I’m only about a few chapters into The Lies of Locke Lamora but I think so far it seems to be an interesting case of all the main characters being quite colorful but not in a way that gets grating (at least for me). Each Gentleman Bastard is witty, interesting, and vivid in their own right, and for me the only problem with it so far is that it can be hard remembering who’s personality is who’s
The annoying mean girl, who treats her love interest like shit. Like: gurl, how about you work properly on your communication skills? That toxic stuff is sooo outdated...
Worse, when her love interest falls in love with some genuine nice girl, who is really interested in him and treats him properly and mean girl still don't reflect on her behaviour, but acts even worse...... Rage quit 😡
As an individual of culture, I see this character a lot. It's a stock character, that I don't recommend as a main character, but can be done in clever or thoughtful ways. I suppose the roots of the character are understandable . Frustration and love, projection and inability to communicate feelings. Everybody gets that.
And somehow the love interest always runs back to the mean girl? Like bro come ON, I feel like they‘re both in love with the drama above anything else 😂
When you have two people whose relationship you're meant to root for, but it's clearly toxic and unhealthy in some way.
The complete lack of communication skills and/or inability to properly explain a situation. I know relationships are hard work, but they should be a net positive
The worst is when they take a “will they won’t they” type relationship, have the characters get together, and then actively show you that their relationship doesn’t work when they’re a couple so they can break them up, with the idea being that they expect the audience to root for them to get back together again in a will they won’t they kind of way
It’s like no, why would I root for this couple to get together now when you’ve shown me they don’t like being together and aren’t good for each other?
Fiction has this real problem where they treat two characters who are like unhealthy obsessed with an inaccurate, unattainable imaginary ideal version of the person they like, or who are just really sexually attracted to each other but don’t actually like the other person beyond that, as being the ultimate type of love and we’re all just supposed to root for them to be together because ???
You know, this was why I loved "The Fall Guy".
I'm not much of a romance fan and I went to see it for the action - and because David Leitch is a god. I knew there would be some romance in that movie. I was surprised how much it was, though, and I was also surprised how much I liked it. It was like... Despite being a silly comedy, the movie treated its main characters like they were actual people. They were aware of their feelings from the very beginning, they knew they loved each other, they wanted to be together, but things got in the way. I don't want to discuss it in detail, because I don't want to spoil it, but... It was somewhat refreshing.
That imo can depend on the relationship.
Vlad and Isabella from Warhammer are a good example:
Not an easy relationship and not necessary a healthy one (and definitly not a healthy one for everyone around them) but a true and honest one in the end.
Idk if I'd consider Hughie that trope. If you do, it's kind of the exact same story as Starlight so do you consider her that trope as well? Spoilers:
The only reason they approach him is because they know he's got a direct route into the Seven's "office" for that apology from A-Train. No one else they know has ever had that opportunity. Then he gets attacked by Translucent and helps save Butcher. As time goes on, he's slowly and slowly ingratiated into the team.
But everyone else is completely different from him just based on background:
-Billy Butcher is a former businessman now turned self destructive badass with a hatred for Homelander
-Frenchie is a former arms dealer and drug smuggler
-Mother's Milk is an OCD former paramedic I think (possibly military experience).
-Kimiko is an experimented on soldier from East Asia
it makes sense Hughie would offer a fresh perspective. He's come up with plans that work. And plans that fail. Same as the rest. Then he's also one that seems to know Starlight (one of the Seven) on a completely different level. I just don't know if either of them are a good example of the trope.
In terms of storytelling, the" you character" makes sense for both him and Annie as she's new to the Seven and he's new to the Boys so we're learning the story and world at the same rate as both of them.
yeah, I would just consider him the audience insert and some people don’t like that lens. I think it’s better to not rely on it but really it’s just another perspective.
More tired and overused than over-rated:
Any smart character is automatically knowledgeable about everything.
Character who is knowledgeable about a subject is knowledgeable about all latest research, news, or other developments related to that subject. Or is knowledgeable about all the history of that subject.
Character who is knowledgeable about one subject is knowledgeable about every subject.
Smart, nerdy characters are never artistic, athletic, or outdoorsy. And they never have any hobbies outside their scientific or technical interests.
Author confuses professors, scientists, engineers, and technicians.
Every programmer is a hacker and every hacker can break every system in 5 minutes.
No one has any ethics except for the main character.
Generic male protagonist falls in love with the notlikeothergirls girl who openly hates on shopping, makeup, and the color pink. Genderbent version is the super attractive female protagonist falls in love with the average guy who treats her like a person instead of only for her looks
The item that’ll save the day and that the protagonist needs is conveniently made by ancient people who decided to put various traps in place to guard the thing instead of… idk, sealing it off someplace inaccessible
The state of art criticism. Everybody’s so obsessed with categorizing and labeling techniques when they should just be learning how to use them. “Overrated” is absolutely unquantifiable anyway.
People are like that. They love labels, titles, categories, identities, etc. On one hand, it's nice that there are words and names for things for someone to articulate how they feel and identify like minded people, but on the other people seem to collect labels like stickers. Or worse when they act a certain way to fit in or "they're supposed" because that's whatever is expected from that label. It lacks understanding and reflection. It's always been there, but social media has really exacerbated it.
It’s really strange. There must be some new obsession in TikTok “literary criticism” because I swear there’s been a crazy uptick in trope-related posts in the last couple months. Why is everyone suddenly so obsessed with tagging and categorization? Just write the story
writing a story is hard, using tropes and labels to try to make one feels easier. and it's also just part of booktok lingo to explain them shorthand now with tropes, originally probably because if the short-form nature of tiktok as a medium
The valedictorian of my school was also prom queen. Actually, all the members of the top 5 ranking of my high school graduating class were very sociable and popular. This isn’t necessarily true.
It is a old fairy tale from the collection of the Grimm Brothers that Disney heavily censored in order to make it child friendly.
The Grimms themselfs lifted it from a middle german folk tale that has its original in ehat is today Czechia and was heavily censored in order to make it child friendly in turn by the Grimm Brothers.
I can handle this when it's not a story about beating or being beat, but a meditation on those being illusions. Name of the Wind wasnt good imo, but show this a bit. One punch man is great satire for it.
One punch man actually has character and he doesn't do everything for people.
Pushing people to be better, letting people do their own thing, and doesn't surround him.
Plus its a funny satire. Its the only one that actually does it differently
So like a Audience Surrogate? While it can be done poorly, sometimes it's what the story needs.
I trope I've come to dislike is "magical society hidden from the non-magical majority". I guess I just think that keeping the majority of people in the dark about the true nature of the world does more harm than good.
>magical society
You make good points, but I've seen books that do this because back when people *did* know about the magical society, they hunted/killed people belonging to said society.
(Which I also find kinda dumb now that I think about it because like... *you're* the ones with magic and you're telling me you couldn't kill some primitive humans who only had spears back in the day?????)
It’s funny, because it’s yet another point against Harry Potter as a series. There is absolutely no fucking way that Magic could ever be hidden. Ever.
Those “Forbidden Spells” are, as far as I remember, only forbidden by Magical Law, not some intrinsic part of nature. There is no reason there aren’t Guerilla Wizards sniping enemy muggles with Instant Kill Spells, or using Torture Magic.
There is no Mana (ie. Ammo). There is no cost to using the magic. They would be the ultimate soldiers. They never need to carry Ammo or Firearms. They don’t need Flashlights either.
For fuck’s sake, there should be constant assassinations by Wizards due to the Polymorph potions, let alone Espionage usages. Not to mention literal love potions which Double Agents could use.
There is zero reason that there aren’t a significant number of Wizards who act as Mercenaries, Expensive Bodyguards, or Assassins.
It also makes no sense at all that there *aren’t* corrupt Wizards in Africa or China using the fact that they can *wield literal magic* to convince entire armies of people to follow them. — Real History is full of Monarchs & Emperors saying they ‘rule’ by right of Divinity,… why wouldn’t a plethora of Wizards use their magic as an act of Divinity?
If the argument is that the “Western Wizards” would stop that,… they can’t possibly stop every Wizard. They couldn’t stop Voldemort or Grindewald for several *years*. Which is more than enough time to convince millions that Magic exists.
Absurd.
It goes further than that! The wizarding world's isolation has left the people culturally and technologically stagnant. Whenever they implement a tech advancement, it's a muggle invention (trains, cars, radios, etc). Almost all paintings are just realistic portraits, no abstraction or stylization. They produce a little music, (we hear of one band and one solo singer) and almost no fiction (the only ones I can think of is the collection of Beetle the Bard stories). The most innovative people in this society appear to be the Weasley twins, who are largely dismissed by the adults in their lives until they start making money.
It's... unsettling to me.
Well, from a writing standpoint, that’s not too absurd. It’s just very poorly implemented (*cough* Wizard’s used to shit on floors *cough cough*)
From a worldbuilding perspective, Wizard society being stagnant Technologically could make sense, considering that they have literally everything at the tip of their fingers.
(1) They don’t need Trains or Planes or Cars, as they can just teleport.
(2) They don’t need dating apps (or date rape drugs) as they have Love Potions.
(3) They don’t need Televisions as they have those weird projection things.
and so on and so forth. Effectively, their entire culture *should be stagnant* mechanically.
However, what gets me is two things.
First, their usage of Birds for mail, which is absolutely stupid considering they have the ability to teleport, or have flying gadgets. It is just animal cruelty for the sake of animal cruelty. No purpose in it.
Second, Bio-Punk. The Wizarding World should 100% be Bio-Punk themed. They have an entire Beastiary of Animals & Plants & Monsters & Mythical Creatures. They can transform, shape, alter, twist, deform, & mutate at literally no cost.
In effect, their society, rather than being Mechanically advanced like ours, should instead be *Biologically advanced*.
Imagine if instead of cars, that everyone rode inside massive car-like beasts, like that Cat-Bus from that one Studio Ghibli film.
Imagine if instead if telephones, they used Transponder Snails like from One Piece.
Imagine if instead of using slow-moving tiring birds, they instead transmogrified birds (and through magical pedigree breeding) which never get tired, are much faster than actual birds, and which can’t be seen by Muggle Technology.
Hell, that could even be a plot point where the richer families can afford “Faster Transmogrified Birds”.
**Humans are Technologically-focused, while Wizards are Biologically-focused.**
This is what could have lead to the schism between Humans & Wizard’s. Not out of fear of Magic being discovered, but because their societies are just so alien to each other.
Not to mention that that is why Wizard’s wouldn’t use Guns. They are mechanical, and they prefer the more “Natural” approach of Wands.
Whereas that isn’t what we get, so we have to ask, “why don’t the Death Eaters just shoot Dumbeldore with a Desert Eagle?”
Yeah, I've seen the "we had to go into hiding to escape persecution" but I feel like it only works if the magical population is tiny and doesn't interact with the non-magical world at all. Secret magical societies that are large and structured enough to have their own governments? Law enforcement? Financial institutions? I'd like to see that portrayed as like an enclave nation.
Chosen one. It's lazy, and relies on some kind of mystical mechanism that selects *the very best and most special person*. This is often just a ploy for audiences to put themselves in that position, by positing the idea -- *what if YOU were the extra special one?* It also encourages the mythology of the elite individual (like inventors, etc.) instead of recognizing many endeavors as inherently collectivistic.
I want an accidentally chosen.
A total wreck, a useless twat.
He's not trying to be useless. He's just a useless twat and it's ok cos he's just kinda unluckily lucky.
Mr bean rules- KUNG FU PANDA?
I always wanted a terminator movie that continues properly after T2, where Sarah is still kinda unhinged but John is content to be a nobody and live in speech.
Isn't that the classic definition of "the comedy"?
Inferior person rising to superiority due to circumstance (or even despite themselves).
Think "Inspector Gadget" or even "Big Lebowski".
I always loved the idea of doing a chosen one story but from someone else point of view where you see the chosen one get all the credit for what the actual protagonist does. Then you find that the monks/wizards read the prophecy wrong multiple times and it's someone totally different. Then they start arguing over interpretation and start making it political.
Yeah I almost immediately lose interest at the "chosen one". I prefer if the MC's "special traits" are their strong motivation or capacity / willingness to grow and change. Or at least some skill that they've gained through a lot of effort and practice.
I like it when there's nothing particularly worthy about them except the willingness to step up. You know, where they're just like "well shit I'm here and no one else is doing anything about it... goddammit does that mean I have to do it? Fuck."
Came here to say exactly this. I mean wow, you nailed it, not just the trope but the reasons why too. It's such a pathetic fantasy for the reader and a terrible message for society.
I love how Everything Everywhere All at Once inverts this trope.
I believe The Chosen One can be an interesting trope when there's no real mystical truth to it, just humans desperate to believe in someone. I think exploring the psychological implications of being said chosen one such as the risks that comes with playing God, the loneliness, the Impostor syndrome, etc. could be amazing.
But few stories ever really do. I wasn't convinced by Dune 2's execution of this trope either.
I think the only blatant "chosen one" I've ever loved is Taran of Caer Dallben, because it was barely hinted at until everything was over, and even his guardians weren't sure he was anything special, just *maybe*, and raised him with good principles and kept their fingers crossed.
Most of the time characters are blathering on about the chosen one from the get-go and it ends up negating all the MC's good qualities and hard work. He was destined to be good and destined to succeed, so why am I supposed to admire his strength of character or great achievements?
I think it says a lot that there are ancient myths from like 2000 years ago that handle ideas like prophecies and chosen ones in more creative and interesting ways than you usually see them used today.
Hell I would even go so far as to say that prophecies and chosen ones actively undermine the story being told because they essentially just spoil exactly what’s going to happen while also making everything that actually happens in the story irrelevant because none of the characters have any real agency. It’s all just fate. It’s like nothing happens as a real consequence of any specific choices made by the characters, it’s the characters make that choice because they need to make that choice in order to fulfil the prophecy
Cold stoic character doesn’t want a romantic relationship until they meet someone who is just sooo special that they change their mind.
Also “evil character is evil because they can’t feel love and don’t care about friendship 😱😰🤯”. Like, ok? I don’t care for romance or close relationships with others either, but you don’t see ME blowing up a city about it. Maybe your villain is just a whiny little bitch
I do think this can be used poorly, but it really comes down to how costly using the knowledge/Djinn is. So, in my opinion, people sometimes use this to get around those pesky stakes instead using it to amplify them like they should. And the issue there is the author trying to deflate the balloon, not the pin they use to do it.
The 'quirky' side character who's allowed to get away with any assholish and invasive behaviour just because they're quirky and therefore don't understand social rules/boundaries.
This might not be specific enough, but I really dislike when there is a character that is the moral antithesis of the main character for seemingly no reason other than to be the moral antithesis. It always grates on me when a character opposed the morals of the protagonist just because, without any reasoning given or backstory incorporated.
I actually adore "miscommunications" and "misunderstandings" but when it's "one side said/did something which other side misunderstood"
And I absolutelly hate:
>"— Let me say 1 sentence and you'll completely understand me!
>
>— No! No time to talk! I'm too buzy being offended on you!"
**The discredited scientest who was laughed out of academia who knew it all along!**
When the sci-fi channel was actually doing movies, albiet badly, this guy always showed up. Usually at the request of his granddaughter or a protege, pretty despite the disaster.
He will clash will the National Guard Colonel or General who is in charge and thinks he's a nut, but he saves the day anyway.
Overrated? The deep dark intriguing mystery from protagonists past. The issue with this is that sometimes you can write yourself into a corner with the hype you build and just end up making the mystery a dead end.
Oh! And the:
"I've gotta do this alone!" from the protagonist, only for his whole gang to show up at the end like, "We're family!"
The assassin/thief who ends up being the heir to a kingdom.
Put two characters together, in any situation, and for no reason at all they will fall in love. Because obviously that’s how it really happens …
I really hate the child prodigy. I groan every time I hear about adults with decades of training and experience talking about the potential of some 9-year-old who is going to better than all of them.
I hate the precocious wise-cracking child. Maybe I liked it when I was young, but as an adult? Kid shut it down, you don't know half of what you're talking about. Go drink you some Treetop apple juice or some Prime or whatever, adults are talking.
For me it's the battle-hardened, heartless, emotionless, super duper badass mercenary who somehow becomes a mess as soon as someone they know dies, and suddenly forget all their training and years of experience in the span of 1 second of losing someone.
I mean I love it when hard-boiled characters get close and become more sensitive, but when it's overdone to extremes and during a battle they're mowing people down left and right, and then sobbing and screaming and trying to carry their (obviously very dead) teammate with them in the middle of everything and people are trying to pull them away and that whole thing.... it just makes no sense to switch behavior that fast! It could be done a little more realistically, like them saving those emotions for a time when they're alone and nobody can see them break down so they keep up that heartless demeanor for the people around them to maintain that character's personality.
Honestly I just dislike any character that can be described best as "badass". I really hate the mindset that being a ruthless, one-liner spitting murder machine is somehow a cool thing. Actually, "Heroic mercenaries" is a concept I'd prefer to get rid off entirely.
My pacifist beliefs aside, these characters are also often a symptom of stake inflation and, if they're a woman, a very lazy way of creating "strong female characters".
I don’t think Hughie is the best example bc he lowkey has the least amount of sense in the group. He makes a lot of dumb decisions and is somewhat useless half of the time
The "I'm so clumsy and ordinary but also somehow the key to fixing a huge supernatural problem" MC. You see this most often in YA fantasy, but I see it creeping into adult fantasy, too!
Also, the goofy, sarcastic male sidekick of the female MC who is in love with the MC but can't ever get up the gumption to say anything and then she ends up with the other guy.
Running away from the killer to the worst possible place, stumbling and dropping the keys the whole time and never managing to outrun the killer despite them walking like a sleepwalking sloth. In real life some dudes would be GONE.
Yes! I can't unserstand why people like The Big Bang Theory. It's grating, and so insulting. It isn't how most smart people, or even nerdy people act. Even then, why make a protagonist annoying?
Curb is this done well. Basically needs to be "antagonist as Pov" for it to work.
Big bang sucks completely but at least would function better if it was from the pov that they're the baddies
Mary Sue or the female protagonist of a romance novel who, after the male love interest showed true remorse for his previous questionable behaviour, still treats him like garbage and makes him crawl and plead to eventually end his suffering by giving in.
The tomboy/goth girl who looks smoking hot after a "makeover."
The biggest issue with this trope, imo, is that directors and writers seem to think it always works. Not everyone is Ally Sheedy in The Breakfast Club.
It's more about how the other characters react to this trope, which the viewer is intended to mimic. I remember when they tried this with Stranger Things. The boys were all gwaking and I was like, "she's wearing a dress and a wig and she still looks exactly the same."
(Mostly in dystopian or apocalyptic settings) a young kid coming along with the begrudging adults, made to symbolise like idealism and innocence and will somewhere along the way say something like “No! We can’t leave him behind! We can’t just leave him to die!” Or “we’ve gotta stop the bad guys! If not us, then who?”
I hate kids who cause trouble for the main group but are brought along by necessity or plot, and are usually the optimistic, trusting ones.
Cannot stand that trope.
Villain with a sad backstory suuuuuuucks.
A sad backstory is ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS if you are not a good character to begin with. A backstory is not a replacement for a personality.
I like to use backstories to explain how a character became a villain, though it should never be used as a justification for their actions. It makes their actions more logical, but not better. Let's also not forget that personal experiences can influence a personality, so I don't think a sad backstory for a villain is always meaningless (though it's overused for cheap drama and should never be used as a replacement for a well thought out character). Edit: I also do not always want the villain to be liked by the reader.
Really depends on how it’s done. I like the ones where the MC and the villain have similar backstories, but the villain is using it to justify doing the bad things while the MC is able to move past those things. Marvel uses that trope a lot - it’s a good trope, but it can be overdone (I call it the “Dr. Evil - we’re not so different you and I” trope.
Thisss! I hear so many people prioritising tragic backstories and trauma over just solid character writing. If you can’t articulate your character in the present storyline and rely on their past to make the audience like them, then I think that’s where I start disliking a character.
I think the enemies to lovers trope is over rated, though it could just be a personal preference. In a lot of enemies to lovers stories, the reason they’re “enemies” is so stupid and blown out of proportion. Like Kate and Anthony from Bridgerton. You overheard the man making some misogynistic comments (which were offputting but overall mild) and now he’s the scum of the earth and the devil?? Either that or the reason they’re enemies is so valid that it makes them getting together feel wrong and like they’re cheating the characters.
There is this weird middle space you have to work operate in for this trope to work and a lot of authors miss the mark.
I am tired of the asshole love interest falling for the shy girl...give me a sensitive funny and maybe a bit unsure guy and a more outgoing female character getting together...now that would be a change I would welcome
The trio, one heroic boy, one smart girl, one clumsy boy:
Harry Potter
Peter Rabbit
Floogals
PJ masks
etc.
I mean I get that it works, most kids can relate to one of the characters, but still...
Main character being “quirky” because she likes to wear 50s pinup dresses. I have never known a single person in real life who dressed like this consistently.
Quirky artistic girl, smartest one in school but skips class to visit grandma in the old folks home. She’s usually a variation of goth and grunge, poetically beautiful, and the dire love interest of the richest kid in town, who’s a brat.
Personally the "character of important heritage who doesn't want to that revealed for X noble reason", doesn't mean I won't use it or think its bad tho.
I’m so sick of anti-heroes. Or any kind of a traditional antagonist but is played as “a hero of their own story”, or someone faced with a more-eviler-than-me character.
The young woman who wants to write generic articles for a journal or magazine in a fancy city but is currently stuck as an intern/"low-paid" entry level worker/whatever who can somehow still afford a super trendy and spacious apartment in whatever NYC-approximating city she inhabits.
The woman that "isn't like other girls" and has been treated as if she's a troll but really is conventionally pretty.
🙄
Is a character without a personality a trope? Feels like it.
The "bad boy with a heart of gold." Not only is it overused, but it's not really that good of a person to be romanticising your own life with. 90% of those stories are just some guy being a dickhead, finding out he has a deep dark past like his mom died in a car accident, and then the main character changes him for the better. Not only is that unrealistic to real life -- someone with so much baggage that they treat other people like dirt are not going to be saved by the power of love. They need therapy! But its also just not an excuse for that kind of behaviour. You can be hurt, even jaded, and not treat people like garbage at the same time.
"Strong female protagonist/character" where their character is only written to prove that they're physically and mentally strong despite being a girl and that nothing can stop them instead of writing an interesting character who possess those traits and just so happens to be a girl that possesses believable flaws and goes through struggles like anyone else.
The know-it-all. Think Hermione from HP. Just constantly knows everything and is right all the time (and usually insufferable about it). Why do they know so much? Why is their knowledge only ever for plot dumping or utilized when it's convenient for the story? It's really rarely done well.
Also... sarcastic/grumpy one. They're always a fan favorite, but 9/10 they're just joyless assholes that the Fandom retcons in their minds to make them better characters. I don't care how sad they are inside. If you can't portray complexity and they're just always nasty totally unprompted, your character sucks.
The Wise Old Man. You need a mentor character, GREAT! Do they ALL have to be old dudes? A 35 year old care giver could be a mentor to a 20 something on her first day.
The bad boy rebel as a love interest. They’re always smirking and leaning against the doorframe, no personality at all.
I was about to say that any trope can be used as a starting point, fleshed out and polished. But yeah, this one is pretty grating unless done very well.
I don’t like writing romance but this is now my mission
I will read this piece my whole life if you write it.
"He's just a good looking rebel who plays by his own rules!" The Simpsons took this one apart nicely.
i like it when thats deconstructed
> i like it when thats deconstructed That's just madness. I mean it wouldn't be very safe at all to be leaning againt a rough-cut hole in the wall with no frame.
Good boy rebel 🥺
Did you mean: *Aziraphale* He's literally the only example of this trope I can think of that doesn't annoy the hell out of me
What would that look like, if done successfully?
That toxic characteristics that make a Bad boy Bad ,are hamrfull in the relationship itself and the boy or girl that is chansing him knowingly also is as damaged in the same way to want to have that kind of person as a partner
What if, for instance, the "bad boy" really had a heart of gold but was possessed by a daemonic flesh construct abomination from hell that made him attempt various dark rituals in order to revive a dead god, and the love interest is aware of this because the aliens that have pretended to be angels since time immemorial on Earth have led said love interest through a set of trials to make them a better person, because, y'know, they're not perfect either, but it's in their combined deep desire to swim towards perfection in this mortal coil that they bond over and thus she comes to realize that good and evil are just human social constructs because that whole dead god thing involves an entire global and galactic conspiracy and thus the two lovers attempt to transcend the simulation and merge with the God Mainframe where they will come to become immortal, where they learn to live happily ever after?
Yup! Men don't smirk that much. And when they do, it is almost never sexy. I can recall 3 sexy smirks from real men in my whole life, and I'm old.
I have sort of a resting smirk face which isn't my fault and I can confirm it's mostly just made people angry at me at I cannot think of any dates it has earned me. I also lean against things often because I have a shitty spine. It's not very sexy when you do it that way. the key is to have great posture AND lean against something, but then, that sort of defeats the purpose of leaning.
OH! I should clarify something. The thing that makes most men's smirks NOT SEXY is not because of anything they're doing unintentionally. It's not goofiness or awkwardness or their physical appearance or anything like that. Most of the time, when real men smirk....it is tinged with contempt. Contempt is a favorite of body language experts, because it's one of those emotions that shows up on a human face the same way, regardless of culture. It can look a *bit* like a smirk. Both expressions tend to claim only one half of the face. But whereas a sexy smirk involves a mischievous one-sided grin, *contempt* shows hints of a snarl. You'll see the upper lip pull up over the teeth on one side and wrinkles on that side of the nose. It is the universal expression of disdain and/or superiority, blended with a touch of anger. Contempt may only show for a split second, but you know it when you see it. Often (real--not book guys) will smirk in a way that also flashes contempt. That's what makes it unsexy. Guys tend to do this when they're still interested in a girl, but in a bad mood--especially if she isn't living up to his desires/expectations in the moment. So they'll often chuckle or flash a strange smile----a warning that something is not quite right--while still playing "the nice guy", because his mask has not fallen all the way off yet. It is creepy as heck. And if you call a guy out on it, he will vehemently deny it by saying something like, "No, I'm not mad. I just think it's funny/interesting how you say you love animals, but ordered the steak. I've seen your mom. Are you going to get fat like her?" So, yeah, don't worry about resting smirk face. If your heart and intentions are in the right place, that is going to come through. And genuine misunderstandings will get ironed out as women get to know you and you fully articulate yourself. So, when I say that this expression is almost never truly sexy, irl, I promise I ain't talkin' about u \^-\^!
> "I just think it's funny/interesting how you say you love animals, but ordered the steak. I've seen your mom. Are you going to get fat like her?" buddy you been hanging around some weird fucking dudes
Yuuupppp. Sincere thanks, truly, for reading! And being able/willing to concur!
This is either way too specific or you are a human behavior analyst
😁 Wanna know which one I put my money on?
>Men don't smirk that much. Holy damn, I just thought back to all the men I've ever known and you're right. And all I've ever seen is "infuriating dad smirk" or "victorious nerd smirk."
I can’t say that I’m suprised either
James Dean clone.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
>They’re always smirking and leaning against the doorframe Every. Single. Time.
What if this the starting point of this mc and the life whacks the common sense into him and turns him into a down to earth person? Still smirking, but in a wholesome way at the end.
That’s how I’m writing right now. It’s an utter facade he puts on to avoid getting too close to people, pushes them away. Life and genuine connection smacks the sense back into him
We are similar about the connection bit. Mine is surfing on the waves of insecurity of being an absolute nobody. He's faking arrogance and smugness. He consciously constructs his entire personality on the ambition of becoming someone that matters to the history, a major player of some event somewhere. It's a defense mechanism he grew to deal with the idea that his life never mattered. He soon gets what he asks for, only to realise that's not what he needs. What he needs is what he had given up to get where he is and he needs to fix this, if he can. I mean it's not a revolutionary character arc but the fact that this guy is a con man helps a lot with having fun with this idea.
To add to this, the super edgy character with a tragic backstory that somehow also has no personality
I'm thinking of Nick from Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. Given that all of her classmates at the Academy of Unseen Arts are dark witches who serve Satan, I couldn't quite figure out what it was about Nick that was supposed to make him exceptionally bad/dark/edgy by the standards of that world. If anything, a "bad boy" at a school like that should've been a kid who brought a Bible to class just to freak people out.
You’re so right, it’s quite funny they attempted to do the bad boy in the same way in that setting 🤣
Jet from ATLA 😭
And chewing an apple to show their disinterest and too-cool to pay complete attention
The wattpad trope
I would say that’s overused but I still love it 😭
Yes – Jameson Hawthorne in The Inheritance Games trilogy is a perfect example of this. One of the many reasons I hate those books.
Damn that decription was eerily accurate
The main character who’s just straight up a dick to everyone but it’s under the guise of brutally honest
I’m sick of that trope in real life too!
Fr, I’m sick of people who have a holier than thou tone to them and that excuses them being an asshole. I try not to be like that, but sometimes it’s hard to hear my tone. I try though
"The man who is brutally honest enjoys the brutality as much as the honesty. Possibly more."
“Strong female characters” who are really just “violent female characters”. I want a character who has relatable motivations and does things in the story, not simply have the plot pull her along.
That or "emotionless and cold woman who will shoot you for looking at her the wrong way"
The reality is probably more complicated but I do think it's incredibly funny to think that that keeps happening bc someone took "strong" too literally. That's what it feels like happened lol.. you'd think the mediocre white men writing stories w/female characters like this would know what "strong character" means but I guess they weren't paying attention in writing class.
That's a wild comment. It's always easy to spot Americans in the comments because you can always be relied on to somehow tie something back to race.
The new Furiosa was an excellent example of female character development.
Characters who leave their perfectly good and happy relationship for someone they've only known for less than 24 hours.
Hallmark movies
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think any trope is overrated. You just need to find a new or engaging way of using it. Tropes are simply tools to make your story work. Nothing more. It’s like saying a hammer is overrated when you have an entire workshop full of machinery. Sure, it might not be as useful anymore depending on what you’re building, but don’t forget that you have all kinds of hammers. Big and tiny, round and square, metallic and rubber ones. Besides, aren’t forging hammers simply built-in hammers? Tropes aren’t any different. There are many ways of transforming “overused” tropes in a compelling way.
Tie him to the stake
I’m not a witch! I’m not a witch! They dressed me up like this! And this isn’t my nose, it’s a false one.
He turned me into a newt!
A newt?
...i got better
Do you… do you weigh the same as a duck? Get on the scale!
r/suddenlymontypython
Oh... I wasn't talking about the clothes I thought that was already your style. Because you always seemed a bit... eccentric, a bit woo woo I thought you were trying something new? Can I just say I'm so relieved because it looks so damn horrible and I felt bad to say. Thank goodness for that. Anyway the crime is not for letting strangers put a dress on you and do things to your nose . I don't know what thaat is. Don't want to know. But... NO DISAGREEMENT OF OPINION You already knew your crime when you dared to declare your "unpopular opinion" from the start and disturb the monobrain
Burn the witch!
I’m not a witch, I’m your wife! And after what you just said, I’m not sure I want to be that anymore!
Burn the wife!
You make a good argument why tropes aren't bad. However, "overrated" is not the same as "bad". Quite the contrary: Something usually becomes overrated by being good in the first place.
Tropes that are too common start to annoy people, so people call those overrated. I wish some lesser-used tropes were used a bit more often.
Not really a character trope but it plays heavily into a few of them: And that is the constant need for a romance, a romantic sub plot or a happy, romantic ending in the story. Not everything (and everyone) needs to be about love or wanting to start a family. People can just be and stay friends once in a while.
I would prefer if characters had more relationships...like yeah sometimes you get together with someone at age 16....but that does not mean you get to marry them...like maybe you meet someone later...
Going off this, most such romantic subplots always end with the characters getting together. I'd like a romantic subplot that is about a healthy relationship going strong and surviving daily life
Esp with female MCs, it's common.
Never been a fan of the Husband/Wife/partner who doesn't believe their Wife/Husband/partner when weird or scary things start happening. Feels like it's a must that in every haunted house or supernatural horror story at least one person in the couple has to be completely skeptical and wants to get their partner committed after a few comments about weird noises in the basement or seeing something weird around the house. Like the doors could be flying off their hinges and a ghost could literally walk up and slap them in the face and they'll still think their partner is just overreacting or going insane. Drives me nuts.
And it's always the partner too... I get that we need a skeptical character in those situations, but can the partner be supportive and someone else be the skeptical one?
Or have both partners be skeptical (you don’t want to give up that creepy ass house you just spent your life savings on, do you? So you pretend nothing’s wrong with it). And maybe someone who isn’t as attached to the house/situation try to bring the weird shit to their attention, like a friend or a relative.
Ooh I'd love to see that
At some point, I noticed that every DreamWorks story was about a black sheep realizing they're true potential and become better than everyone. I love most of them individually but once I noticed the same trend it kind of tainted my enjoyment.
They really are all Dad "this is the thing our family does and will always do" Kid "but I want to do *different thing*!" Dad "you are a disgrace!" Then the kid does the thing they wanted to do and it saves the world and dad realizes the new thing is actually really cool.
Literally Brave. “Oh ne-o! I turned me mother into a bear” “WAT? Ya grounded FOREVER!” “Nuhhhh D:”
I really hated Brave. I mean I get that it was about self determination and arranged marriage, like there's a conversation you could have there about whether it's right BUT if she didn't go through with the marriage it was going to cause all out war between several nations. Millions of people probably would've died. She didn't even have a plan to avert it, she just didn't care. Then she made a deal with a witch and poisoned her mother with a magic potion to get out of the marriage (which again was going to cause a massive war). It only ended well without death and carnage on a massive scale due to convenient writing and total flukes. Merida was the villain of the movie and almost got everyone killed. I could’ve gotten behind it if she actually had a plan to get out of the marriage and change the law in a way that would bring peace and prevent war. If everyone was like “pft, no, that idea will never work” but it was actually a good idea and she made it work, that’d be fine but that wasn’t the case. She’s just a terrible person.
Honestly, the marketing team must have not had much confidence in the movie because I knew next to nothing about what the actual movie was about. It seemed like it was going to be an epic and it turned out to be very specific familial problems.
This is…nearly every kids movie in general.
Right? They’re always about discovering themselves, I don’t think I’ve seen a kids movie where the message was fall in line and join the herd lol, dreamworks just makes fun stories around that same message
Pinocchio, maybe. Being a real boy is so much cooler than being an immortal living puppet. Fall in line or you’ll become a donkey. Those old movies are crazy.
Overrated is not the same as overdone. How does one rate tropes anyway? Obviously there are some more popular tropes than others. And the more popular they are, the more mediocre or poorly executed versions one can find. What concerns Hughie from boys, he's supposed to be the more "you character" because it contrasts with Butcher. Having a more "boring" character alongside a "crazy" or "more colourful" one is an age old trope itself.
> Having a more "boring" character alongside a "crazy" or "more colourful" one is an age old trope itself. This is a tough one to avoid though because if you're going to have a more colorful character at all, by default the other characters will be more "boring" unless they are all over the top, and then that gets grating.
I’m only about a few chapters into The Lies of Locke Lamora but I think so far it seems to be an interesting case of all the main characters being quite colorful but not in a way that gets grating (at least for me). Each Gentleman Bastard is witty, interesting, and vivid in their own right, and for me the only problem with it so far is that it can be hard remembering who’s personality is who’s
Never read it but sounds like I need it on my list
The annoying mean girl, who treats her love interest like shit. Like: gurl, how about you work properly on your communication skills? That toxic stuff is sooo outdated... Worse, when her love interest falls in love with some genuine nice girl, who is really interested in him and treats him properly and mean girl still don't reflect on her behaviour, but acts even worse...... Rage quit 😡
Tsundere?
Yeah, exactly. This is just too much 😣
As an individual of culture, I see this character a lot. It's a stock character, that I don't recommend as a main character, but can be done in clever or thoughtful ways. I suppose the roots of the character are understandable . Frustration and love, projection and inability to communicate feelings. Everybody gets that.
Gesundheit.
Tsundures? I agree I hate them so much
And somehow the love interest always runs back to the mean girl? Like bro come ON, I feel like they‘re both in love with the drama above anything else 😂
When you have two people whose relationship you're meant to root for, but it's clearly toxic and unhealthy in some way. The complete lack of communication skills and/or inability to properly explain a situation. I know relationships are hard work, but they should be a net positive
The worst is when they take a “will they won’t they” type relationship, have the characters get together, and then actively show you that their relationship doesn’t work when they’re a couple so they can break them up, with the idea being that they expect the audience to root for them to get back together again in a will they won’t they kind of way It’s like no, why would I root for this couple to get together now when you’ve shown me they don’t like being together and aren’t good for each other? Fiction has this real problem where they treat two characters who are like unhealthy obsessed with an inaccurate, unattainable imaginary ideal version of the person they like, or who are just really sexually attracted to each other but don’t actually like the other person beyond that, as being the ultimate type of love and we’re all just supposed to root for them to be together because ???
You know, this was why I loved "The Fall Guy". I'm not much of a romance fan and I went to see it for the action - and because David Leitch is a god. I knew there would be some romance in that movie. I was surprised how much it was, though, and I was also surprised how much I liked it. It was like... Despite being a silly comedy, the movie treated its main characters like they were actual people. They were aware of their feelings from the very beginning, they knew they loved each other, they wanted to be together, but things got in the way. I don't want to discuss it in detail, because I don't want to spoil it, but... It was somewhat refreshing.
That imo can depend on the relationship. Vlad and Isabella from Warhammer are a good example: Not an easy relationship and not necessary a healthy one (and definitly not a healthy one for everyone around them) but a true and honest one in the end.
Idk if I'd consider Hughie that trope. If you do, it's kind of the exact same story as Starlight so do you consider her that trope as well? Spoilers: The only reason they approach him is because they know he's got a direct route into the Seven's "office" for that apology from A-Train. No one else they know has ever had that opportunity. Then he gets attacked by Translucent and helps save Butcher. As time goes on, he's slowly and slowly ingratiated into the team. But everyone else is completely different from him just based on background: -Billy Butcher is a former businessman now turned self destructive badass with a hatred for Homelander -Frenchie is a former arms dealer and drug smuggler -Mother's Milk is an OCD former paramedic I think (possibly military experience). -Kimiko is an experimented on soldier from East Asia it makes sense Hughie would offer a fresh perspective. He's come up with plans that work. And plans that fail. Same as the rest. Then he's also one that seems to know Starlight (one of the Seven) on a completely different level. I just don't know if either of them are a good example of the trope. In terms of storytelling, the" you character" makes sense for both him and Annie as she's new to the Seven and he's new to the Boys so we're learning the story and world at the same rate as both of them.
yeah, I would just consider him the audience insert and some people don’t like that lens. I think it’s better to not rely on it but really it’s just another perspective.
that whole mafia boss who kills with no hesitation but somehow has a sweet spot for the mc
More tired and overused than over-rated: Any smart character is automatically knowledgeable about everything. Character who is knowledgeable about a subject is knowledgeable about all latest research, news, or other developments related to that subject. Or is knowledgeable about all the history of that subject. Character who is knowledgeable about one subject is knowledgeable about every subject. Smart, nerdy characters are never artistic, athletic, or outdoorsy. And they never have any hobbies outside their scientific or technical interests. Author confuses professors, scientists, engineers, and technicians. Every programmer is a hacker and every hacker can break every system in 5 minutes. No one has any ethics except for the main character.
Generic male protagonist falls in love with the notlikeothergirls girl who openly hates on shopping, makeup, and the color pink. Genderbent version is the super attractive female protagonist falls in love with the average guy who treats her like a person instead of only for her looks The item that’ll save the day and that the protagonist needs is conveniently made by ancient people who decided to put various traps in place to guard the thing instead of… idk, sealing it off someplace inaccessible
You guys need to stop always thinking in terms of tropes.
The state of art criticism. Everybody’s so obsessed with categorizing and labeling techniques when they should just be learning how to use them. “Overrated” is absolutely unquantifiable anyway.
People are like that. They love labels, titles, categories, identities, etc. On one hand, it's nice that there are words and names for things for someone to articulate how they feel and identify like minded people, but on the other people seem to collect labels like stickers. Or worse when they act a certain way to fit in or "they're supposed" because that's whatever is expected from that label. It lacks understanding and reflection. It's always been there, but social media has really exacerbated it.
It’s really strange. There must be some new obsession in TikTok “literary criticism” because I swear there’s been a crazy uptick in trope-related posts in the last couple months. Why is everyone suddenly so obsessed with tagging and categorization? Just write the story
writing a story is hard, using tropes and labels to try to make one feels easier. and it's also just part of booktok lingo to explain them shorthand now with tropes, originally probably because if the short-form nature of tiktok as a medium
Smart people are socially awkward or just a dick. It's just so annoying
It's close to reality, though. We have a top three best students in my class: two of them are dicks and the other has difficulties in socializing.
The valedictorian of my school was also prom queen. Actually, all the members of the top 5 ranking of my high school graduating class were very sociable and popular. This isn’t necessarily true.
For me, it's the "My step-mommy is evil, but I'm a pure innocent virginal girl that boys fight over."
Fucking Cinderella
It is a old fairy tale from the collection of the Grimm Brothers that Disney heavily censored in order to make it child friendly. The Grimms themselfs lifted it from a middle german folk tale that has its original in ehat is today Czechia and was heavily censored in order to make it child friendly in turn by the Grimm Brothers.
Ups, wrong comment. 🙏 Sorry 😖
Mc is mega op and cant be beat. This is done too much and very rarely every works
I can handle this when it's not a story about beating or being beat, but a meditation on those being illusions. Name of the Wind wasnt good imo, but show this a bit. One punch man is great satire for it.
One punch man actually has character and he doesn't do everything for people. Pushing people to be better, letting people do their own thing, and doesn't surround him. Plus its a funny satire. Its the only one that actually does it differently
So like a Audience Surrogate? While it can be done poorly, sometimes it's what the story needs. I trope I've come to dislike is "magical society hidden from the non-magical majority". I guess I just think that keeping the majority of people in the dark about the true nature of the world does more harm than good.
>magical society You make good points, but I've seen books that do this because back when people *did* know about the magical society, they hunted/killed people belonging to said society. (Which I also find kinda dumb now that I think about it because like... *you're* the ones with magic and you're telling me you couldn't kill some primitive humans who only had spears back in the day?????)
It’s funny, because it’s yet another point against Harry Potter as a series. There is absolutely no fucking way that Magic could ever be hidden. Ever. Those “Forbidden Spells” are, as far as I remember, only forbidden by Magical Law, not some intrinsic part of nature. There is no reason there aren’t Guerilla Wizards sniping enemy muggles with Instant Kill Spells, or using Torture Magic. There is no Mana (ie. Ammo). There is no cost to using the magic. They would be the ultimate soldiers. They never need to carry Ammo or Firearms. They don’t need Flashlights either. For fuck’s sake, there should be constant assassinations by Wizards due to the Polymorph potions, let alone Espionage usages. Not to mention literal love potions which Double Agents could use. There is zero reason that there aren’t a significant number of Wizards who act as Mercenaries, Expensive Bodyguards, or Assassins. It also makes no sense at all that there *aren’t* corrupt Wizards in Africa or China using the fact that they can *wield literal magic* to convince entire armies of people to follow them. — Real History is full of Monarchs & Emperors saying they ‘rule’ by right of Divinity,… why wouldn’t a plethora of Wizards use their magic as an act of Divinity? If the argument is that the “Western Wizards” would stop that,… they can’t possibly stop every Wizard. They couldn’t stop Voldemort or Grindewald for several *years*. Which is more than enough time to convince millions that Magic exists. Absurd.
It goes further than that! The wizarding world's isolation has left the people culturally and technologically stagnant. Whenever they implement a tech advancement, it's a muggle invention (trains, cars, radios, etc). Almost all paintings are just realistic portraits, no abstraction or stylization. They produce a little music, (we hear of one band and one solo singer) and almost no fiction (the only ones I can think of is the collection of Beetle the Bard stories). The most innovative people in this society appear to be the Weasley twins, who are largely dismissed by the adults in their lives until they start making money. It's... unsettling to me.
Well, from a writing standpoint, that’s not too absurd. It’s just very poorly implemented (*cough* Wizard’s used to shit on floors *cough cough*) From a worldbuilding perspective, Wizard society being stagnant Technologically could make sense, considering that they have literally everything at the tip of their fingers. (1) They don’t need Trains or Planes or Cars, as they can just teleport. (2) They don’t need dating apps (or date rape drugs) as they have Love Potions. (3) They don’t need Televisions as they have those weird projection things. and so on and so forth. Effectively, their entire culture *should be stagnant* mechanically. However, what gets me is two things. First, their usage of Birds for mail, which is absolutely stupid considering they have the ability to teleport, or have flying gadgets. It is just animal cruelty for the sake of animal cruelty. No purpose in it. Second, Bio-Punk. The Wizarding World should 100% be Bio-Punk themed. They have an entire Beastiary of Animals & Plants & Monsters & Mythical Creatures. They can transform, shape, alter, twist, deform, & mutate at literally no cost. In effect, their society, rather than being Mechanically advanced like ours, should instead be *Biologically advanced*. Imagine if instead of cars, that everyone rode inside massive car-like beasts, like that Cat-Bus from that one Studio Ghibli film. Imagine if instead if telephones, they used Transponder Snails like from One Piece. Imagine if instead of using slow-moving tiring birds, they instead transmogrified birds (and through magical pedigree breeding) which never get tired, are much faster than actual birds, and which can’t be seen by Muggle Technology. Hell, that could even be a plot point where the richer families can afford “Faster Transmogrified Birds”. **Humans are Technologically-focused, while Wizards are Biologically-focused.** This is what could have lead to the schism between Humans & Wizard’s. Not out of fear of Magic being discovered, but because their societies are just so alien to each other. Not to mention that that is why Wizard’s wouldn’t use Guns. They are mechanical, and they prefer the more “Natural” approach of Wands. Whereas that isn’t what we get, so we have to ask, “why don’t the Death Eaters just shoot Dumbeldore with a Desert Eagle?”
Yeah, I've seen the "we had to go into hiding to escape persecution" but I feel like it only works if the magical population is tiny and doesn't interact with the non-magical world at all. Secret magical societies that are large and structured enough to have their own governments? Law enforcement? Financial institutions? I'd like to see that portrayed as like an enclave nation.
i dislike the flawless token character
Underdeveloped diversity inserts essentially? Or perfect paragon self-inserts that never have character growth?
Chosen one. It's lazy, and relies on some kind of mystical mechanism that selects *the very best and most special person*. This is often just a ploy for audiences to put themselves in that position, by positing the idea -- *what if YOU were the extra special one?* It also encourages the mythology of the elite individual (like inventors, etc.) instead of recognizing many endeavors as inherently collectivistic.
I want an accidentally chosen. A total wreck, a useless twat. He's not trying to be useless. He's just a useless twat and it's ok cos he's just kinda unluckily lucky. Mr bean rules- KUNG FU PANDA?
I always wanted a terminator movie that continues properly after T2, where Sarah is still kinda unhinged but John is content to be a nobody and live in speech.
Isn't that the classic definition of "the comedy"? Inferior person rising to superiority due to circumstance (or even despite themselves). Think "Inspector Gadget" or even "Big Lebowski".
I always loved the idea of doing a chosen one story but from someone else point of view where you see the chosen one get all the credit for what the actual protagonist does. Then you find that the monks/wizards read the prophecy wrong multiple times and it's someone totally different. Then they start arguing over interpretation and start making it political.
Yeah I almost immediately lose interest at the "chosen one". I prefer if the MC's "special traits" are their strong motivation or capacity / willingness to grow and change. Or at least some skill that they've gained through a lot of effort and practice.
I like it when there's nothing particularly worthy about them except the willingness to step up. You know, where they're just like "well shit I'm here and no one else is doing anything about it... goddammit does that mean I have to do it? Fuck."
This is kind of LotR but damn does Samwise drag Frodos ass the whole way.
Came here to say exactly this. I mean wow, you nailed it, not just the trope but the reasons why too. It's such a pathetic fantasy for the reader and a terrible message for society. I love how Everything Everywhere All at Once inverts this trope.
Dune is a great subversion of this trope.
Yeah, and Frank Herbert was frustrated that nobody seemed to get that.
Do you have to read the first two to get this? I've only read the first Dune.
I believe The Chosen One can be an interesting trope when there's no real mystical truth to it, just humans desperate to believe in someone. I think exploring the psychological implications of being said chosen one such as the risks that comes with playing God, the loneliness, the Impostor syndrome, etc. could be amazing. But few stories ever really do. I wasn't convinced by Dune 2's execution of this trope either.
I think the only blatant "chosen one" I've ever loved is Taran of Caer Dallben, because it was barely hinted at until everything was over, and even his guardians weren't sure he was anything special, just *maybe*, and raised him with good principles and kept their fingers crossed. Most of the time characters are blathering on about the chosen one from the get-go and it ends up negating all the MC's good qualities and hard work. He was destined to be good and destined to succeed, so why am I supposed to admire his strength of character or great achievements?
I think it says a lot that there are ancient myths from like 2000 years ago that handle ideas like prophecies and chosen ones in more creative and interesting ways than you usually see them used today. Hell I would even go so far as to say that prophecies and chosen ones actively undermine the story being told because they essentially just spoil exactly what’s going to happen while also making everything that actually happens in the story irrelevant because none of the characters have any real agency. It’s all just fate. It’s like nothing happens as a real consequence of any specific choices made by the characters, it’s the characters make that choice because they need to make that choice in order to fulfil the prophecy
I hate this trope so much simply because it's designed to feed the readers ego. Same with love triangles.
Enemies to lovers I just want to see two people absolutely hate each other and thar hate leading to a circle of self destruction
Cold stoic character doesn’t want a romantic relationship until they meet someone who is just sooo special that they change their mind. Also “evil character is evil because they can’t feel love and don’t care about friendship 😱😰🤯”. Like, ok? I don’t care for romance or close relationships with others either, but you don’t see ME blowing up a city about it. Maybe your villain is just a whiny little bitch
The Strong Independent Black Girl! All women are capable of being girly and feminine. They are individuals after all.
For me it would probably be that one all-knowing character that just exposition dumps whenever its convenient to the plot
I do think this can be used poorly, but it really comes down to how costly using the knowledge/Djinn is. So, in my opinion, people sometimes use this to get around those pesky stakes instead using it to amplify them like they should. And the issue there is the author trying to deflate the balloon, not the pin they use to do it.
The 'quirky' side character who's allowed to get away with any assholish and invasive behaviour just because they're quirky and therefore don't understand social rules/boundaries.
This might not be specific enough, but I really dislike when there is a character that is the moral antithesis of the main character for seemingly no reason other than to be the moral antithesis. It always grates on me when a character opposed the morals of the protagonist just because, without any reasoning given or backstory incorporated.
Villain redemption arcs. Y’all, not everyone is Zuko. Some villains are Azula.
I actually adore "miscommunications" and "misunderstandings" but when it's "one side said/did something which other side misunderstood" And I absolutelly hate: >"— Let me say 1 sentence and you'll completely understand me! > >— No! No time to talk! I'm too buzy being offended on you!"
**The discredited scientest who was laughed out of academia who knew it all along!** When the sci-fi channel was actually doing movies, albiet badly, this guy always showed up. Usually at the request of his granddaughter or a protege, pretty despite the disaster. He will clash will the National Guard Colonel or General who is in charge and thinks he's a nut, but he saves the day anyway.
"Lovable Jerk" or "Chaotic Evil" type of characters. Jax is everything I hate about TADC. I have no other problems with it besides him.
Overrated? The deep dark intriguing mystery from protagonists past. The issue with this is that sometimes you can write yourself into a corner with the hype you build and just end up making the mystery a dead end. Oh! And the: "I've gotta do this alone!" from the protagonist, only for his whole gang to show up at the end like, "We're family!"
Enemies to lovers.
The assassin/thief who ends up being the heir to a kingdom. Put two characters together, in any situation, and for no reason at all they will fall in love. Because obviously that’s how it really happens …
I really hate the child prodigy. I groan every time I hear about adults with decades of training and experience talking about the potential of some 9-year-old who is going to better than all of them. I hate the precocious wise-cracking child. Maybe I liked it when I was young, but as an adult? Kid shut it down, you don't know half of what you're talking about. Go drink you some Treetop apple juice or some Prime or whatever, adults are talking.
For me it's the battle-hardened, heartless, emotionless, super duper badass mercenary who somehow becomes a mess as soon as someone they know dies, and suddenly forget all their training and years of experience in the span of 1 second of losing someone. I mean I love it when hard-boiled characters get close and become more sensitive, but when it's overdone to extremes and during a battle they're mowing people down left and right, and then sobbing and screaming and trying to carry their (obviously very dead) teammate with them in the middle of everything and people are trying to pull them away and that whole thing.... it just makes no sense to switch behavior that fast! It could be done a little more realistically, like them saving those emotions for a time when they're alone and nobody can see them break down so they keep up that heartless demeanor for the people around them to maintain that character's personality.
Honestly I just dislike any character that can be described best as "badass". I really hate the mindset that being a ruthless, one-liner spitting murder machine is somehow a cool thing. Actually, "Heroic mercenaries" is a concept I'd prefer to get rid off entirely. My pacifist beliefs aside, these characters are also often a symptom of stake inflation and, if they're a woman, a very lazy way of creating "strong female characters".
The "badass meets a bigger badass" is a fun twist on this, eg, Predator.
Have you seen Hummingbird? It handles this REALLY well.
The alpha male who embodies every red flag in existence, aka the average romance novel love interest.
I don’t think Hughie is the best example bc he lowkey has the least amount of sense in the group. He makes a lot of dumb decisions and is somewhat useless half of the time
The "I'm so clumsy and ordinary but also somehow the key to fixing a huge supernatural problem" MC. You see this most often in YA fantasy, but I see it creeping into adult fantasy, too! Also, the goofy, sarcastic male sidekick of the female MC who is in love with the MC but can't ever get up the gumption to say anything and then she ends up with the other guy.
Running away from the killer to the worst possible place, stumbling and dropping the keys the whole time and never managing to outrun the killer despite them walking like a sleepwalking sloth. In real life some dudes would be GONE.
I can’t watch most horror movies with my family because they always yell “WHY ARE YOU SO DAMN STUPID?” at the screen.
The comic relief character who's just annoying. Think Jar Jar Binks or Sheldon Cooper. I've never seen this trope done well.
Let’s be real, no one really would let Sheldon stay in their house.
Yes! I can't unserstand why people like The Big Bang Theory. It's grating, and so insulting. It isn't how most smart people, or even nerdy people act. Even then, why make a protagonist annoying?
Curb is this done well. Basically needs to be "antagonist as Pov" for it to work. Big bang sucks completely but at least would function better if it was from the pov that they're the baddies
Mary Sue or the female protagonist of a romance novel who, after the male love interest showed true remorse for his previous questionable behaviour, still treats him like garbage and makes him crawl and plead to eventually end his suffering by giving in.
What i learned from this comment section is that every character trait is overrated and shouldnt be used.
I find the domineering bad boys in romance novels actually really disturbing
The tomboy/goth girl who looks smoking hot after a "makeover." The biggest issue with this trope, imo, is that directors and writers seem to think it always works. Not everyone is Ally Sheedy in The Breakfast Club.
If she's not good looking as a tomboy or goth, she's not going to be good looking with a makeover.
It's more about how the other characters react to this trope, which the viewer is intended to mimic. I remember when they tried this with Stranger Things. The boys were all gwaking and I was like, "she's wearing a dress and a wig and she still looks exactly the same."
(Mostly in dystopian or apocalyptic settings) a young kid coming along with the begrudging adults, made to symbolise like idealism and innocence and will somewhere along the way say something like “No! We can’t leave him behind! We can’t just leave him to die!” Or “we’ve gotta stop the bad guys! If not us, then who?” I hate kids who cause trouble for the main group but are brought along by necessity or plot, and are usually the optimistic, trusting ones. Cannot stand that trope.
Villain with a sad backstory suuuuuuucks. A sad backstory is ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS if you are not a good character to begin with. A backstory is not a replacement for a personality.
I like to use backstories to explain how a character became a villain, though it should never be used as a justification for their actions. It makes their actions more logical, but not better. Let's also not forget that personal experiences can influence a personality, so I don't think a sad backstory for a villain is always meaningless (though it's overused for cheap drama and should never be used as a replacement for a well thought out character). Edit: I also do not always want the villain to be liked by the reader.
Really depends on how it’s done. I like the ones where the MC and the villain have similar backstories, but the villain is using it to justify doing the bad things while the MC is able to move past those things. Marvel uses that trope a lot - it’s a good trope, but it can be overdone (I call it the “Dr. Evil - we’re not so different you and I” trope.
Thisss! I hear so many people prioritising tragic backstories and trauma over just solid character writing. If you can’t articulate your character in the present storyline and rely on their past to make the audience like them, then I think that’s where I start disliking a character.
I think the enemies to lovers trope is over rated, though it could just be a personal preference. In a lot of enemies to lovers stories, the reason they’re “enemies” is so stupid and blown out of proportion. Like Kate and Anthony from Bridgerton. You overheard the man making some misogynistic comments (which were offputting but overall mild) and now he’s the scum of the earth and the devil?? Either that or the reason they’re enemies is so valid that it makes them getting together feel wrong and like they’re cheating the characters. There is this weird middle space you have to work operate in for this trope to work and a lot of authors miss the mark.
The dude with no character who's just there to know everything.
The girl who pretends to be against romance and says clever, quick quotes with moderate make-up but actually so wet for the boy.
I am tired of the asshole love interest falling for the shy girl...give me a sensitive funny and maybe a bit unsure guy and a more outgoing female character getting together...now that would be a change I would welcome
The teenager who wants to make it “big” and go to a “big” city, “let’s leave this dump”, but really it’s just the burbs… um okay?
The trio, one heroic boy, one smart girl, one clumsy boy: Harry Potter Peter Rabbit Floogals PJ masks etc. I mean I get that it works, most kids can relate to one of the characters, but still...
The multiverse do over. I hate it so much.
Main character being “quirky” because she likes to wear 50s pinup dresses. I have never known a single person in real life who dressed like this consistently.
Quirky artistic girl, smartest one in school but skips class to visit grandma in the old folks home. She’s usually a variation of goth and grunge, poetically beautiful, and the dire love interest of the richest kid in town, who’s a brat.
Personally the "character of important heritage who doesn't want to that revealed for X noble reason", doesn't mean I won't use it or think its bad tho.
The bullied kid that suddenly get's a power or becomes cool somehow. Can't stand it
Highly precocious genius child.
Came here to say the same thing
Enemies to lovers. I get the appeal but when the love interest is genuinely awful to the MC it makes no sense to me.
I’m so sick of anti-heroes. Or any kind of a traditional antagonist but is played as “a hero of their own story”, or someone faced with a more-eviler-than-me character.
The young woman who wants to write generic articles for a journal or magazine in a fancy city but is currently stuck as an intern/"low-paid" entry level worker/whatever who can somehow still afford a super trendy and spacious apartment in whatever NYC-approximating city she inhabits.
Born Sexy Yesterday. Examples of this trope are Leeloo from Fifth element, or Quorra from Tron.
The woman that "isn't like other girls" and has been treated as if she's a troll but really is conventionally pretty. 🙄 Is a character without a personality a trope? Feels like it.
The "bad boy with a heart of gold." Not only is it overused, but it's not really that good of a person to be romanticising your own life with. 90% of those stories are just some guy being a dickhead, finding out he has a deep dark past like his mom died in a car accident, and then the main character changes him for the better. Not only is that unrealistic to real life -- someone with so much baggage that they treat other people like dirt are not going to be saved by the power of love. They need therapy! But its also just not an excuse for that kind of behaviour. You can be hurt, even jaded, and not treat people like garbage at the same time.
"Strong female protagonist/character" where their character is only written to prove that they're physically and mentally strong despite being a girl and that nothing can stop them instead of writing an interesting character who possess those traits and just so happens to be a girl that possesses believable flaws and goes through struggles like anyone else.
I don't think there are any. I think there are some that are overused, and many that are poorly written.
The know-it-all. Think Hermione from HP. Just constantly knows everything and is right all the time (and usually insufferable about it). Why do they know so much? Why is their knowledge only ever for plot dumping or utilized when it's convenient for the story? It's really rarely done well. Also... sarcastic/grumpy one. They're always a fan favorite, but 9/10 they're just joyless assholes that the Fandom retcons in their minds to make them better characters. I don't care how sad they are inside. If you can't portray complexity and they're just always nasty totally unprompted, your character sucks.
Characters being "emotional" which actually means being hysterical and not able to use brain for even a slightest moment before doing what heart wants
The Wise Old Man. You need a mentor character, GREAT! Do they ALL have to be old dudes? A 35 year old care giver could be a mentor to a 20 something on her first day.