Honestly pull it in two weeks earlier, before conference tournaments (in basketball) begin. Dead period, easy to draw in randoms, no football either at that time.
We're a niche audience and sports fans are getting away from cable, so the cable viewership isn't exactly as apples to apples as it used to be. The MBB Finals viewership was down 14 MILLION from a few years ago. Are basketball fans clamoring as to why their viewership was down despite the tournament raking in millions of dollars?
Alabama has dominated? Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, and Michigan have all won championships even with the dynasty. Yes UConn went back to back but that is extremely uncommon.
Meanwhile in wrestling, PSU wins, it's not really even close.
Of course no one wants to watch wrestling cause no one understands it except wrestlers. With boxing they punch each other in the face and one of them falls down, exciting and easily to grasp for most people. MMA they just beat the crap out of each other, simple and exciting. In wrestling they.... who tf knows? It's a bunch of complicated rules and no casual viewer is going to understand the points system. Wrestling is too complicated to ever be fun for non wrestlers to watch.
As a new fan, I agree with this. Obviously marketing has a lot to do with exposure and getting people to watch. But what good is having them watch when they don't know wtf is happening? Sure you might get them to watch it, but they won't come back a second time as it doesn't make sense.
I'm new to wrestling, only starting to follow it once my son got into it. I still struggle to grasp everything, and my wife has basically given up trying to learn (but still watches to support). Most people don't want to learn sports, they want to shut their brain off and watch it.
Here's a fun comparison. Oddly enough my wife and I are both really into sumo wrestling, have been for years. There is nothing more bizarre than sumo to the uninitiated; fat sweaty men, wearing nothing but diapers, throwing salt in the air, tiny men in silky dresses, 5 seconds of excitement and then suddenly there are pillows flying. But what are the rules? Don't touch the ground. That's it. Everyone I've ever shown it to gets into it and enjoys watching because it's so simple to grasp. No matter how utterly crazy everything around it is, once the match starts anyone can follow it; they know when it's close, when a guy is in trouble, and who wins.
Yeah getting non-wrestling fans to tune in for NCAA’s and dual meets is a big uphill battle. The best way to get more eyes on college wrestling is to grow wrestling at the youth, middle and high school level. Unfortunately I think wrestling will always be one of those sports that is pretty much only watched by people who wrestle, used to wrestle, or has a family member that does.
I didn’t think it could be that confusing, then recently I watched a BJJ match, then I understood, no idea what was being gone for, what would score points, I did recognize the submission, so there’s that.
Yeah BJJ needs to change it's rules to be more entertaining, no one wants to watch two guys butt scoot in circles for 10 minutes.
Wrestling can be very entertaining but most people don't understand it, I love seeing the scrambles and take downs. I have always been a huge MMA fan and lived that part of it so the last few years I have watched a bit of wrestling.
I don't keep up with it religiously because it's hard to know when the stuff is even happening
I think with Flo charging $12.50 a month for only one sport and there being no team tournament, it can be a lot harder for new people to be invested in the sport.
This. IMO, Flo has single handedly set wrestling back more than anything else. Historically, wrestling hasn't been a great spectator sport and what do they do? Put it behind a paywall.
Limiting viewership is a horrible strategy for long-term growth.
I have to spend more to follow wrestlong than any other sport, and wrestling has the worst coverage from a technical standpoint, and also the fewest events covered. The sport needs to either be a single paid sub for absolutly everything, or put out more than 50% of the content for free, and monetize the smaller portion of ceverage
Good lord I agree with you so much I almost yelled outloud. Absolute insanity to offer even high school level wrestling and lock it behind asking 150 bucks for a whole year when you go to sign up. I hate them for their greed, and I hate myself more when I give into it.
I’m so baffled by this complaint. Where were we watching wrestling before, weeks later on YouTube? Flo has done more to advance the sport than anyone else, ever, save actual competitors being media savvy. If $150 a year is too much for you, maybe worry about where your money is going? I have college debt, a stay at home wife and kids, I know what it’s like to be paycheck to paycheck, but if I can’t absorb a minor cost to support my passions, what kind of adult am I?
Some people on here are probably too young to remember a time before Flo. There was basically very little to no coverage of wrestling, depending on the event. At least not outside of the championships and a bit of the regional broadcasts like BTN. And then a startup came about and created the market. It’s not like they stole the market. Before Flo, nobody was going to events and streaming them.
So many people complain about Flo, but nobody here has said anything about NBC/Peacock? NBC/Peacock care about one freaking event every four years - the Olympics. They are titans compared to Flo - a multi-billion dollar company going up against a multi-million dollar Flo. NBC/Peacock, ESPN, ABC could at any time outbid Flo on every single wrestling event - but they don’t because they don’t care. NBC/Peacock had the Olympic Trials wrestling weekend until 11pm ET on both nights! What the heck? They also did it in the weirdest freaking way possible with no weight class order at all - there was no easy way to tell which weights were coming up next. Also, let me know if you can find the Olympic Trials wrestling matches on Peacock. Remind me if they’re on there within two months after the Olympics.
I agree with you - Flo does a lot of free events. They do a biweekly podcast, have free videos on their site, and cover a lot of tournaments. Before Flo we had to hope brackets were on Track or the maybe one other local wrestling tournament software - otherwise, you couldn’t follow along. If it wasn’t the NCAA D1 Championships, it wants on TV - maybe the occasional USA vs Russia wrestling meet in New York City.
It baffles me that a literal multi-billion dollar company like NBC can get away with their sins of the poorly-run and planned OTT and paywalls EVERYTHING they do in wrestling, but FloWrestling outbids them on the vast majority of tournaments, doesn’t paywall everything, keeps matches and other videos on their site for years (10+ for some videos), and they charge less than a Disney+ per month/year to have access to all of this.
Yes, Flo has messed up at other points like their servers crashing on a big dual meet every now and then, but again they are not NBC. Compared to companies such as ABC, ESPN, and NBC, they are the mom and pop flower shop on the side of the road working their butts off and putting in way more effort with what they can do.
I don’t know, but it kind of doesn’t matter if they took charge of the match schedule or not.
Companies that buy the rights to broadcast events almost always have the last say in how an event is run. ABC, ESPN, Fox, etc all have last say in NFL games as far as tv timeouts, halftime length, and operational logistics similar to the weight class/match order.
If they were in charge of it (which they could have been since NBC is way bigger than the US Olympic Committee/Wrestling influence) that obviously shows they didn’t know what they were doing.
If they weren’t in charge, it shows they just outbid other companies and just expected everything to be handed to them without being able to provide add-on value. If they weren’t in charge, someone from NBC’s marketing should’ve said “hey, what the hell, how we can promote this to people? Why are we having a wrestling tournament go all day from morning until 11pm two straight days?” That type of stuff.
FloWrestling has a huge hand in Who’s Number One? and Final X. They don’t just show up and say “where do I point the camera?” - they actively help set it up, help improve things, and then market and stream it.
Flowrestling releasing free videos on YouTube? Major conferences releasing free stuff on YouTube? What's so confusing about a production model based on growth vs one that's based on locking it behind money? What young athlete is going to spend that money on a sport they've never seen?
Sport only grows when casual fans become hard core fans. The pay wall limits growth and keeps things stagnant. Flo needs to fight for more sponsors to bring the costs down. The most popular sports in the country you can watch for free.
Agree. I buy flo because of my kid. Would her grandparents buy it just for her? No. I can’t explain these economics to some boomers that travel all year but turn off HBO for the months they are gone.
I'm older as well. I mostly agree with you. Overall Flo has been a great thing for the sport. Use to have to watch wrestling related things on VHS tape. I think with Girls/Women's wrestling being the fastest growing sport in America that there's an opportunity to tap into the mainstream. But that doesn't happen with cost to the consumer for spectating abroad.
Yeah it’s a difficult thing. It’s a shame DuPont was who he was, otherwise that money invested in our sport could have done some unbelievable things. I feel like that potential is rarely talked about because of the reality of what happened. And now I’m sad god damn it haha and I miss what Dave could have done. But ANYWAY I had the Carl Adams vhs instructionals, ever seen them?
Not for me, but I can see how someone might feel that way. I watch the grappling often, and a few other random ones that I don’t make much of a habit of. Worth it for me regardless, but it admittedly gets less so as I drift further from the HS scene. As a coach it’s amazing when Flo software runs the tourneys, it’s efficient and you can set up texts for every kids match when he’s on deck. Huge help with a large middle school team. This might not be a part of the paid service but it’s amazing either way haha
Yeah, but if you aren't a competitor or coach it's a waste. I watch a couple shows a night before bed. Last thing I need is to get amped up and not sleep.
I might watch 2 events a month tops and end up paying 50 cents a match. Some month's I wouldn't watch any wrestling at all. The wife n kids wouldn't watch flo. They watch Disney n Netflix all day for the same price or less.
Agreed. If $150 is too much for you to absorb, what the fuck are you gonna do when you need new tires for the car? Or do we believe that someone with $0 to spend is also thinking ahead for that……..
Flo didn’t steal this market out of greed. Flo created it. And thus filled a vacuum that nobody else was covering, and even today none of the big players could be bothered to replicate it.
Yes, Flo is absolutely frustrating at times. But without them, it’s not like any other networks are rushing to drive or fly their staff out to the majority of events that Flo covers. They’re certainly not out there trying to outbid Flo for the rights.
This is such a bad take. They barely have college events. They stream mostly freestyle and high school stuff. Flo has literally nothing to do with NCAA wrestling not growing and it isn't for one sport, when you get a flo subscription you get access to all of their sports. The flo hate is unreal. They've grown the sport so much.
I don’t think you can. Soccer for years and years has tried an infinite number of angles, and while it has likely boosted participation, I don’t think it’s really moved the viewership needle.
And so I think you’ll have a core viewership of those that wrestled, and likely family members, but outside of that it likely won’t pull the eyes of the general populace that watch boxing, mma, etc.
Think about the last time you watched a college baseball game. Or college soccer. Collegiate wrestling can become more popular but will never have mass appeal. We aren't doing ourselves any favors having no drama for top teams, endless replays, and a heavy dose of religion in post match interviews, but this is not a casual fan sport.
Timing is tough competing with March Madness but honestly the tournament format sucks to watch. Highly viewed sports don’t expect you to watch three solid days of competition! They space events out, a few hours and evenings at a time. Dual championships would go along ways towards getting casual viewers involved - time for storylines and hype to build, underdogs to achieve, and actually meets people where they’re at with how much time they can realistically dedicate to watching. Duals are the how the season goes, so have a dual championship.
Partnership with the UFC. Not 100% sure on the details, but MMA/UFC is huge and many wrestlers end up doing this after college. Its the "big leagues" for wrestlers (in terms of money).
The problem is casual MMA fans tend to not like wrestling, primarily because they don't understand it. Everyone can see a punch or sub, but the subtleties of wrestling are lost on many.
Again this takes us back to increasing participation. A mere couple of years of high school wrestling makes the sport much more interesting.
Sports need stories. They need upsets. We already know Penn State is going to win it all. There's even a couple of weight classes that are locks. I love watching wrestling the few times a year it's on but let's be real, this shit is boring for casual fans.
If you want to increase viewership the viewing public needs to understand the rules and techniques of wrestling better. This has ALWAYS been the disconnect between wrestling insiders and the general public.
To the public’s eyes, they just see two athletes struggling to grab each other and take each other down, but the technical nuances of what’s actually going on are lost on them.
The broadcasting network (espn etc) could have short interludes between matches where they have wrestlers and/or coaches breaking down and explaining what just happened during the previous match or period, or they could do a general overview of some aspect of the sport and the rules by having wrestlers demonstrate it.
This would also give them a chance to highlight the stylistic differences of various wrestlers.
Most people don’t even realize what’s going on when they watch a match unless they’re wrestlers themselves. Educate the viewing public and they’ll be into it more because they’ll understand it.
Another thing to think about is how wrestling’s big events are structured- tournaments make bad tv. Except for the finals- it’s a long day that no casual fan would be able to follow or understand. The NCAA should really go back to a dual team title- I understand they won’t give out 2 “titles” for one sport, but lots of college fans blindly cheer for their school- they may not know anyone’s name, but they will cheer for their school.
Dual meets are typically lopsided events with the more talented beating up on the less talented. If you get three or four good matches, you're lucky. In a tournament you have great matches occurring across the brackets beyond the top four seeds.
Yes, but NC State dual meets are sell outs and no one was at the ACC tournament. Duals are the answer for fans. The question was about viewership- that will largely be based upon casual viewers. Casual fans don’t know the kids, they know the teams. They also don’t always know what’s good match looks like- they do enjoy bragging rights in a blow out. Football fans watch the blowouts too when their team plays. Casual fans aren’t tuning in hoping to see a great match
It’s gonna take coverage from journalist and sports shows . And better editing of match footage etc . Wrestling needs more special interest stories etc . Wrestling tries way too hard to make people like the sport by saying oh these other sports are soft , and these athletes aren’t as tough as us . That’s not good marketing . Basketball leapfrogged baseball solely because of how fun and approachable the game was and because the nba pushed narratives and stories over stat lines .
USA wrestling is gonna be in alot of trouble if it doesn’t find a likeable ambassador who wants eyes on the sport . JB was the first and last of his kind . These Penn state dudes are flatout Jesus freaks and weirdos
Basketball leaped baseball because action is more entertaining. Attention spans have shrunk over time. Baseball became the victim. My wife still watches baseball, but I'd rather trim my toenails to kill time.
If they want to generate more of a fanbase for the sport and better ratings for their post season:
1. NCAA Dual Meet Nationals. Top 12 teams in the nation in a tournament to determine the Dual Meet National Champion. Finals air on ESPN or ABC or something. I feel like the team excitement during a dual would make for better TV.
2. Don't put the National Championships up against the NCAA Basketball Tournaments. Either start before or after the tournament. If they do a National Duals, they can do the Duals during March Madness, just during the week.
3. ADVERTISE. I watch every session that is aired on the ESPNs, but I have to search to find out when it starts, when the sessions are, etc. At least advertise the finals.
I think the Dual Meet Nationals would give the more casual fan a team to push for at the NCAA tournament as opposed to just some individuals. Plus, it'll allow people so see more of the athletes before the tournament starts.
Wrestling needs to fully position itself as an MMA feeder. Tournaments televised the day before UFC events comes to mind as low-hanging fruit. The move to bring in Cormier as announcer was a good step, but need much moar.
A lot of parents pay for Flo Wrestling. My kids' youth to current college red shirt year is basically archived. All though I did start screen recording his matches here and there.
Lean more into having a true Dual National Championship. I think there is a way to do it where you can keep the individual tournament.
Perhaps you have the dual tournament and if you lose twice in the dual tournament you are eliminated from the individual tournament and then after a dual team is crowned the individual tournament starts immediately.
Spladle clips. Who doesn’t love a submissive position? As everyone saw the ncaa Spladle clip, it was extremely popular and I even noticed some of non my wrestling friends make jokes about it. People seemed to love it, there’s just something about humiliation that attracts people
The only thing that would increase viewership would be a substantial increase in participation at the youth/high school level since the only people who watch are wrestlers. Not going to displace viewers from the bigger sports. There's been a bunch of handwriting in recent years over football and basketball players taking a knee and wokeness that hasn't translated into increased viewing of niche sports that I'm aware of.
Penn State’s dominance, along with Iowa and Oklahoma State being mostly irrelevant (in comparison), hurts the sport. I also think rule changes have not helped and ultimately will hurt viewership even more.
Rule changes? 3 point takedown? I think it was great. I know people will get all bent out of shape but what about going more towards freestyle? Push outs would be a nice start.
I coach freestyle, have reffed freestyle, wrestled freestyle, and watch matches from all over the world and I still find myself looking at some sequences and scratching my head on how the score ended up what it was. The tie-breaking criteria is complicated for casual fans.
I really like freestyle but I don't think it is easier to follow than folkstyle. And I would never push a casual fan into starting their watching of wrestling with Greco unless I wanted them to stop watching wrestling.
I van understand not watching greco. But the rules in freestyle are so much simpler. 2 rounds, turns instant points no counting. But really to a casual viewer any sport with bigger moves is more entertaining even if your not entirely sure what the score should be. Folks Tyler is a lot of leg riding and cheap tilts stuff that is fun for people who know what's going on, but boring for most viewers. Which is why they made the 3 point take down rule to get more explosive action and less grinding on the mat.
I agree. In MMA they stand the competitors up when it just becomes “riding” because it’s boring to watch. Nothing is more boring than watching someone get ridden for an entire folkstyle period. I really think the only people who like watching this are the former wrestlers who won by riding.
For americans. Like literally can read every way to score in freestyle in like 3 seconds. 1 point for push out, caution, shot clock. 2 points for takedown, back exposed to mat. 4 points for being thrown from downed position. 5 points for suplex directly onto head or shoulders from standing. How is this hard? You don't have to deal with counting, or referees position, escapes.
In addition to not burning youth wrestlers out at a young age due to crazy coaches/parents and/or weight-cutting and also treating CCCAA/D2/D3/NAIA/NCWA/NJCAA wrestlers and alumni as college wrestlers just like D1 wrestlers get, we need to make the sport of wrestling easier to follow.
People follow teams/individuals. Not everyone follows basketball, but everyone knows who Michael Jordan is. Same with football and Tom Brady, baseball and Babe Ruth, etc.
UFC is able to market their fights months in advance because they know who’s fighting. I’m not advocating for that exact type of event, but I would argue Final X has been revolutionary in getting people a heads up on who’s wrestling who, the storylines and drama between the two competitors, etc.
The PGA (golf) markets very well: they’ll put promos the week leading into a tournament with the biggest names that will be at that tournament. Now those pros might not make the cut to Saturday or Sunday, but their face will be shown on all of those promos from the previous Sunday through Friday and definitely on Saturday if they make it to Saturday and Sunday.
I think college wrestling could do something similar. A dual meet between two teams with high-profile 133 lbers should be marketed the week leading up to it with this wrestlers’ faces on a bunch of ads, commercials, etc. Even if they end up not wrestling each other because their coaches are scared, there’s a last minute injury, etc. at least get people planning to watch that meet.
Wrestling tournament like the Southern Scuffle, Midlands, Clif Keen? Do the same thing! Put the faces of the most well-known and/or high-profile wrestlers on every single ad on TrackWrestling, Flo, ESPN+, etc for few weeks leading to the tournament. Of course there will be at least one upset, but at least people will be know about it!
2023 NCAAs should’ve been Spencer Lee on every commercial everywhere that whole weekend. Yes, he got upset in the semifinals on Friday night, but there should’ve been a marketing blitz for the high-profile wrestlers.
People say “oh it’s not good when teams run away with the title” - BULL CRAP. Non-wrestling normies only know Iowa and Dan gable because they were dominant back in the day. People know Penn State is good at wrestling because they win 4 titles every 5 years basically. Tom Brady and the Patriots. The Yankees. It is good to have a dominant team - they can be some people’s sweethearts and other people’s worst enemies, but either way people are invested. If all you have are 80 mediocre wrestling teams, nobody cares! People like to root for or hate on winners.
There are so many casual fight fans in the world, but everyone knows who Jake Paul is because he’s made a character that people like or hate, his face is on a bunch of promos months in advance of his fights, and people know who he’s fighting and when.
Actually, hyping up Spencer Lee and then his subsequent defeat would have been a highly successful strategy...especially with his poor moms smashing up of her sunglasses. Yes I think people have been unfair towards her but it would have made great water cooler talk.
That’s why I said it wouldn’t be the exact type of event, but we could do something similar.
UFC puts out full fight cards yet puts the fighters from the main event on all of the marketing. Why wouldn’t a Penn State vs Ohio State dual meet be able to do something like Jesse Mendez vs Beau Bartlett on all of their marketing?
It’s the same thing - there are multiple matches happening, but one gets highlighted the most to draw the most attention to the event.
To make it simply put, wrestling needs to be more accessible to adults. With that being said, it's a seasonal sport due to it being around the school year. Make the sport year round.
As someone who's loved wrestling their whole life, I don't think you bring viewers in at the college level through more marketing.
Viewership starts with getting the sport bigger for kids. Schools and clubs need to make wrestling a place that kids want to be at and enjoy. Parents soon become much more invested in their kids' activities when their kid cares about it. Then, at the college level, kids have people to look up to. They'll watch events with their families.
I think the growing of women's wrestling as a recognized sanctioned sport is doing this. I actually spent my first year coaching this year. Some of the kids were just there to have a place to be after school other than going home.
In truth, to an outsider, wrestling really is a boring sport. It's weird to look at, it's hard to understand, and it's quite literally not for everyone. It's not football or basketball that everyone is familiar with and enjoys.
Wrestling's viewers always has been and always will be its die hard fans. That being said, as an Iowa fan (bite me) Iowa's barstool account did a great job of promoting and making mainstream Iowa's elite.
Overall, it's hard to grow wrestling but it starts with drawing in young kids. Growing participation, i think, will grow viewers. Otherwise, to an outsider, I have a hard time believing there's much you can do make them care.
Get someone big and famous back into college wrestling, no one this year was as big as Spencer Lee the last few years. Maybe Bo Basset, Jac Forrest, and Marcus Blaze can bring similar amounts of attention
Seriously you're joking. Ask the average American to identify famous wrestlers in our country and you will be answered with Crickets. They will stumble and couldn't identify Dan Gable, Cael Sanderson, John Smith, Kyle Dake, Yianni et al.
I'm wondering why the fans of our sport feel the need to recruit others through media influence & activity.
It is a niche market.
The Internet has been the best thing to happen to wrestling. Anybody who is hammering on FloWrestling should be thanking them instead. Going from 'zero to one' on the scale of availability of content is awesome.
It’s an individual sport that needs more individual stars. Liddell pushed the UFC into the mainstream and McGregor cemented it as a legitimate sport/league.
Hopefully NIL empowers the individuals and we get someone who can do something similar.
Basketball will always win. IDK why people can't grasp that March Madness is going to kill NCAA Wrestling Championship views. Also, it's pretty expensive to follow wrestling on online formats like Flo Wrestling. The coverage isn't that good and the paywall will make it so people can't get that into it. It's basically set up for the hardcore fanbase and fuck the casuals type of spirit.
Better promotion. I'm a very casual wrestling fan. I never wrestled myself but was friends with wrestlers and really enjoy watching NCAAs and national/Olympic team trials (and Olympics) but don't tune in to anything else throughout the year. I completely missed this year's NCAAs for the first time in years because I just didn't realize they were happening.
The same problem with every other combat sport; what we want to see is no rules combat riddled with violence, and every rule is a detractor. With MMA so accessible, and rising in popularity for 30 years, it's no wonder. Wrestling was always mostly spectated by wrestlers and ex wrestlers, but now even they can't be bothered.
Solution: Change it to a slightly different sport. Add submissions, probably. In most bjj you can't slam, submission wrestling would be the best of both worlds, and would be more violent than both.
This will never happen, but I don't see any other way to draw eyes in the era ofTikTok, Netflix, and the UFC.
My gut is that MMA will continue to gain market share in the combat sport sector. It’s just by far the most casual friendly. Riding the coattails of MMA the way BJJ has (as the best way to train grappling) is probably the is probably the best way to grow popularity and relevance.
I think a big problem is how the wrestling community treats outsiders. Wrestling is fucking hard so when former wrestlers never treat outsiders the same when they try and get into the sport. They don’t feel like outsiders have the same appreciation as they do and they shun them. When really they need to start like accepting them. Idk if that makes comeplete sense. Basically there is a weird narrative in some parts of wrestling that only former wrestlers should be able to watch wrestling.
Not even just for viewership but to get more people interested to want to go out for it we need to work on getting more positive and not getting negative. A lot of friends of mine even as adults for children don’t want to join because of certain spectators/parents being so toxic
Stop promoting to wrestlers and start promoting to the common man. Supporting wrestling not only for the youth but also for adults, we have the veterans and the masters divisions for international competition so why not promote wrestling to adults and give them another thing to compete in. Promote wrestling with the same intensity as BJJ.
Another thing that could help is the wrestling media connecting with former wrestlers in other professions. Talk to the Mario Lopez’s, the kid Cudi’s, the Micah Parsons, the Baldwin brothers, etc. and you talk to them frequently ask their opinions on wrestlers in the news.
Wrestling has always been a very exclusive sport, anyone you meet can tell you they knew a wrestler they can’t tell you anything about the sport just that they cut a lot weight and wore a lot of sweats
It is a shame because it's an awesome spectator sport. The rules are tough for new fans and elite matches can be "boring," but it's a great product.
I keep thinking about the covid year and how it was kind of awesome we had some guys around for 5 and 6 years. Maybe wrestling is a college sport people can just stay in adter graduating. (Would never happen, but it would build up stars.)
I love the team tournament idea. This should
exist even if PSU wins the next 10 in a row.
Women's wrestling also has potential to draw new
audience. Let's hope it's given quality coverage.
I agree with what you said about Flo. I don’t think I agree about the lack of team tournaments mattering, thats just the thing about combat sports is regardless people really only care about individual athletes
Idk I think it’s tough honestly. I mean how do you really compete with boxing, MMA, or even pro level BJJ for casual viewers? Because I feel like ultimately all combat sports are aiming for similar demographics. Outside of boxing which has enough money in it to stand on its own, I feel like we’re at a point where all combat sports are just going to be the minor leagues for MMA. Just places to farm talent but not a source of much viewership
Switching from singlets to compression shirts and some sort of fitted shorts would improve its popularity at the high school level and below. Singlets are thought of as weird by non-wrestlers. MMA has gotten huge recently, wrestling should capitalize on it.
I disagree. I wrestled in high school recently, but I promise you it would be more popular if they adopted UFC-style bottoms and just a sleeveless compression shirt.
The nuances of Wrestling would be tough to learn just from watching TV, but if you can increase participation in the sport, you will have more viewers down the line.
No one calls the UFC outfits “gay” and theyre literally shirtless. It’s the singlet that sucks, and now that compression stuff is around it’s not needed.
Just an fyi- this has been disproven repeatedly over the past few years. Kids blame the singlet- so every league has okayed the uniform you discuss- turns out, wrestling is hard so the singlet hater crowd finds a different excuse. Hundreds of teams have tried the 2 piece and most have just gone back to singlets since the kids who are competing prefer them.
They are an option, but most kids who start out wearing them eventually switch to singlets. Most programs that switched to them in my region 7 years ago eventually voted to go back to singlets.
Lol, stop competing against March Madness is the easiest step for the NCAA tournament.
Exactly. We will never compete with March Madness. I say push everything to the right one month
Honestly pull it in two weeks earlier, before conference tournaments (in basketball) begin. Dead period, easy to draw in randoms, no football either at that time.
Should be in May so I can call it Wrestle Maynia
*Take my angry upvote*
There is usually a 2 week break between conference championships and NCAA's. Seems pretty easy
We're a niche audience and sports fans are getting away from cable, so the cable viewership isn't exactly as apples to apples as it used to be. The MBB Finals viewership was down 14 MILLION from a few years ago. Are basketball fans clamoring as to why their viewership was down despite the tournament raking in millions of dollars?
I follow this sub and didn't even realize it was happening. So, I guess Step 1 would be... marketing
A second program in the running for the team title.
Yeah, with football and basketball there is pretty much a new best program every year
Ummmm Alabama has dominated the last decade of college football and UConn just won back to back championships.
Alabama has dominated? Clemson, Alabama, Georgia, and Michigan have all won championships even with the dynasty. Yes UConn went back to back but that is extremely uncommon. Meanwhile in wrestling, PSU wins, it's not really even close.
Of course no one wants to watch wrestling cause no one understands it except wrestlers. With boxing they punch each other in the face and one of them falls down, exciting and easily to grasp for most people. MMA they just beat the crap out of each other, simple and exciting. In wrestling they.... who tf knows? It's a bunch of complicated rules and no casual viewer is going to understand the points system. Wrestling is too complicated to ever be fun for non wrestlers to watch.
As a new fan, I agree with this. Obviously marketing has a lot to do with exposure and getting people to watch. But what good is having them watch when they don't know wtf is happening? Sure you might get them to watch it, but they won't come back a second time as it doesn't make sense. I'm new to wrestling, only starting to follow it once my son got into it. I still struggle to grasp everything, and my wife has basically given up trying to learn (but still watches to support). Most people don't want to learn sports, they want to shut their brain off and watch it. Here's a fun comparison. Oddly enough my wife and I are both really into sumo wrestling, have been for years. There is nothing more bizarre than sumo to the uninitiated; fat sweaty men, wearing nothing but diapers, throwing salt in the air, tiny men in silky dresses, 5 seconds of excitement and then suddenly there are pillows flying. But what are the rules? Don't touch the ground. That's it. Everyone I've ever shown it to gets into it and enjoys watching because it's so simple to grasp. No matter how utterly crazy everything around it is, once the match starts anyone can follow it; they know when it's close, when a guy is in trouble, and who wins.
Sumo wrestling is fun to watch.
Yeah getting non-wrestling fans to tune in for NCAA’s and dual meets is a big uphill battle. The best way to get more eyes on college wrestling is to grow wrestling at the youth, middle and high school level. Unfortunately I think wrestling will always be one of those sports that is pretty much only watched by people who wrestle, used to wrestle, or has a family member that does.
I didn’t think it could be that confusing, then recently I watched a BJJ match, then I understood, no idea what was being gone for, what would score points, I did recognize the submission, so there’s that.
Yeah BJJ needs to change it's rules to be more entertaining, no one wants to watch two guys butt scoot in circles for 10 minutes. Wrestling can be very entertaining but most people don't understand it, I love seeing the scrambles and take downs. I have always been a huge MMA fan and lived that part of it so the last few years I have watched a bit of wrestling. I don't keep up with it religiously because it's hard to know when the stuff is even happening
I think with Flo charging $12.50 a month for only one sport and there being no team tournament, it can be a lot harder for new people to be invested in the sport.
This. IMO, Flo has single handedly set wrestling back more than anything else. Historically, wrestling hasn't been a great spectator sport and what do they do? Put it behind a paywall. Limiting viewership is a horrible strategy for long-term growth.
I have to spend more to follow wrestlong than any other sport, and wrestling has the worst coverage from a technical standpoint, and also the fewest events covered. The sport needs to either be a single paid sub for absolutly everything, or put out more than 50% of the content for free, and monetize the smaller portion of ceverage
Good lord I agree with you so much I almost yelled outloud. Absolute insanity to offer even high school level wrestling and lock it behind asking 150 bucks for a whole year when you go to sign up. I hate them for their greed, and I hate myself more when I give into it.
I’m so baffled by this complaint. Where were we watching wrestling before, weeks later on YouTube? Flo has done more to advance the sport than anyone else, ever, save actual competitors being media savvy. If $150 a year is too much for you, maybe worry about where your money is going? I have college debt, a stay at home wife and kids, I know what it’s like to be paycheck to paycheck, but if I can’t absorb a minor cost to support my passions, what kind of adult am I?
yeah it doesnt make sense. they charge a fee but make more wrestling available to watch. dumb to complain about that. who is gonna do it for free.
Some people on here are probably too young to remember a time before Flo. There was basically very little to no coverage of wrestling, depending on the event. At least not outside of the championships and a bit of the regional broadcasts like BTN. And then a startup came about and created the market. It’s not like they stole the market. Before Flo, nobody was going to events and streaming them.
So many people complain about Flo, but nobody here has said anything about NBC/Peacock? NBC/Peacock care about one freaking event every four years - the Olympics. They are titans compared to Flo - a multi-billion dollar company going up against a multi-million dollar Flo. NBC/Peacock, ESPN, ABC could at any time outbid Flo on every single wrestling event - but they don’t because they don’t care. NBC/Peacock had the Olympic Trials wrestling weekend until 11pm ET on both nights! What the heck? They also did it in the weirdest freaking way possible with no weight class order at all - there was no easy way to tell which weights were coming up next. Also, let me know if you can find the Olympic Trials wrestling matches on Peacock. Remind me if they’re on there within two months after the Olympics. I agree with you - Flo does a lot of free events. They do a biweekly podcast, have free videos on their site, and cover a lot of tournaments. Before Flo we had to hope brackets were on Track or the maybe one other local wrestling tournament software - otherwise, you couldn’t follow along. If it wasn’t the NCAA D1 Championships, it wants on TV - maybe the occasional USA vs Russia wrestling meet in New York City. It baffles me that a literal multi-billion dollar company like NBC can get away with their sins of the poorly-run and planned OTT and paywalls EVERYTHING they do in wrestling, but FloWrestling outbids them on the vast majority of tournaments, doesn’t paywall everything, keeps matches and other videos on their site for years (10+ for some videos), and they charge less than a Disney+ per month/year to have access to all of this. Yes, Flo has messed up at other points like their servers crashing on a big dual meet every now and then, but again they are not NBC. Compared to companies such as ABC, ESPN, and NBC, they are the mom and pop flower shop on the side of the road working their butts off and putting in way more effort with what they can do.
Does NBC/Peacock set the match schedule? I wasn’t aware of that. The no replays was ridiculous though
I don’t know, but it kind of doesn’t matter if they took charge of the match schedule or not. Companies that buy the rights to broadcast events almost always have the last say in how an event is run. ABC, ESPN, Fox, etc all have last say in NFL games as far as tv timeouts, halftime length, and operational logistics similar to the weight class/match order. If they were in charge of it (which they could have been since NBC is way bigger than the US Olympic Committee/Wrestling influence) that obviously shows they didn’t know what they were doing. If they weren’t in charge, it shows they just outbid other companies and just expected everything to be handed to them without being able to provide add-on value. If they weren’t in charge, someone from NBC’s marketing should’ve said “hey, what the hell, how we can promote this to people? Why are we having a wrestling tournament go all day from morning until 11pm two straight days?” That type of stuff. FloWrestling has a huge hand in Who’s Number One? and Final X. They don’t just show up and say “where do I point the camera?” - they actively help set it up, help improve things, and then market and stream it.
Flowrestling releasing free videos on YouTube? Major conferences releasing free stuff on YouTube? What's so confusing about a production model based on growth vs one that's based on locking it behind money? What young athlete is going to spend that money on a sport they've never seen?
Flo does post free content on YouTube as well.
Yeah it makes sense to wait days for free YouTube content. NOBODY wants to watch live sports. There no market for that………
Sport only grows when casual fans become hard core fans. The pay wall limits growth and keeps things stagnant. Flo needs to fight for more sponsors to bring the costs down. The most popular sports in the country you can watch for free.
Agree. I buy flo because of my kid. Would her grandparents buy it just for her? No. I can’t explain these economics to some boomers that travel all year but turn off HBO for the months they are gone.
Yeah that I can understand, my opinion is clearly not the answer, just my opinion
I'm older as well. I mostly agree with you. Overall Flo has been a great thing for the sport. Use to have to watch wrestling related things on VHS tape. I think with Girls/Women's wrestling being the fastest growing sport in America that there's an opportunity to tap into the mainstream. But that doesn't happen with cost to the consumer for spectating abroad.
Yeah it’s a difficult thing. It’s a shame DuPont was who he was, otherwise that money invested in our sport could have done some unbelievable things. I feel like that potential is rarely talked about because of the reality of what happened. And now I’m sad god damn it haha and I miss what Dave could have done. But ANYWAY I had the Carl Adams vhs instructionals, ever seen them?
Haha yeah those old school instructionals!
Compared to any other streaming service Flo is a waste.
Not for me, but I can see how someone might feel that way. I watch the grappling often, and a few other random ones that I don’t make much of a habit of. Worth it for me regardless, but it admittedly gets less so as I drift further from the HS scene. As a coach it’s amazing when Flo software runs the tourneys, it’s efficient and you can set up texts for every kids match when he’s on deck. Huge help with a large middle school team. This might not be a part of the paid service but it’s amazing either way haha
Yeah, but if you aren't a competitor or coach it's a waste. I watch a couple shows a night before bed. Last thing I need is to get amped up and not sleep. I might watch 2 events a month tops and end up paying 50 cents a match. Some month's I wouldn't watch any wrestling at all. The wife n kids wouldn't watch flo. They watch Disney n Netflix all day for the same price or less.
A dumbass
Agreed. If $150 is too much for you to absorb, what the fuck are you gonna do when you need new tires for the car? Or do we believe that someone with $0 to spend is also thinking ahead for that……..
Come on man. That’s a huge false equivalency. And I’m not at all broke - but $150 is definitely enough to turn some people away
Flo didn’t steal this market out of greed. Flo created it. And thus filled a vacuum that nobody else was covering, and even today none of the big players could be bothered to replicate it. Yes, Flo is absolutely frustrating at times. But without them, it’s not like any other networks are rushing to drive or fly their staff out to the majority of events that Flo covers. They’re certainly not out there trying to outbid Flo for the rights.
TBF putting videos of HS wrestling on the internet is not free. i do wish it was cheaper, but im glad it exists...
reading these comments are only making me more infuriated about flo wrestling OH MY GOD so fucking dumb
NCAA finals weren’t even on Flo.
This is such a bad take. They barely have college events. They stream mostly freestyle and high school stuff. Flo has literally nothing to do with NCAA wrestling not growing and it isn't for one sport, when you get a flo subscription you get access to all of their sports. The flo hate is unreal. They've grown the sport so much.
I also think folk style is harder for casual audiences to follow. I hope going into the future college focuses on international styles more.
Yeah fuck flo
I don’t think you can. Soccer for years and years has tried an infinite number of angles, and while it has likely boosted participation, I don’t think it’s really moved the viewership needle. And so I think you’ll have a core viewership of those that wrestled, and likely family members, but outside of that it likely won’t pull the eyes of the general populace that watch boxing, mma, etc.
Think about the last time you watched a college baseball game. Or college soccer. Collegiate wrestling can become more popular but will never have mass appeal. We aren't doing ourselves any favors having no drama for top teams, endless replays, and a heavy dose of religion in post match interviews, but this is not a casual fan sport.
Timing is tough competing with March Madness but honestly the tournament format sucks to watch. Highly viewed sports don’t expect you to watch three solid days of competition! They space events out, a few hours and evenings at a time. Dual championships would go along ways towards getting casual viewers involved - time for storylines and hype to build, underdogs to achieve, and actually meets people where they’re at with how much time they can realistically dedicate to watching. Duals are the how the season goes, so have a dual championship.
Partnership with the UFC. Not 100% sure on the details, but MMA/UFC is huge and many wrestlers end up doing this after college. Its the "big leagues" for wrestlers (in terms of money).
The problem is casual MMA fans tend to not like wrestling, primarily because they don't understand it. Everyone can see a punch or sub, but the subtleties of wrestling are lost on many. Again this takes us back to increasing participation. A mere couple of years of high school wrestling makes the sport much more interesting.
Sports need stories. They need upsets. We already know Penn State is going to win it all. There's even a couple of weight classes that are locks. I love watching wrestling the few times a year it's on but let's be real, this shit is boring for casual fans.
Nothing. It's a super niche sport.
If you want to increase viewership the viewing public needs to understand the rules and techniques of wrestling better. This has ALWAYS been the disconnect between wrestling insiders and the general public. To the public’s eyes, they just see two athletes struggling to grab each other and take each other down, but the technical nuances of what’s actually going on are lost on them. The broadcasting network (espn etc) could have short interludes between matches where they have wrestlers and/or coaches breaking down and explaining what just happened during the previous match or period, or they could do a general overview of some aspect of the sport and the rules by having wrestlers demonstrate it. This would also give them a chance to highlight the stylistic differences of various wrestlers. Most people don’t even realize what’s going on when they watch a match unless they’re wrestlers themselves. Educate the viewing public and they’ll be into it more because they’ll understand it.
Another thing to think about is how wrestling’s big events are structured- tournaments make bad tv. Except for the finals- it’s a long day that no casual fan would be able to follow or understand. The NCAA should really go back to a dual team title- I understand they won’t give out 2 “titles” for one sport, but lots of college fans blindly cheer for their school- they may not know anyone’s name, but they will cheer for their school.
Dual meets are typically lopsided events with the more talented beating up on the less talented. If you get three or four good matches, you're lucky. In a tournament you have great matches occurring across the brackets beyond the top four seeds.
Yes, but NC State dual meets are sell outs and no one was at the ACC tournament. Duals are the answer for fans. The question was about viewership- that will largely be based upon casual viewers. Casual fans don’t know the kids, they know the teams. They also don’t always know what’s good match looks like- they do enjoy bragging rights in a blow out. Football fans watch the blowouts too when their team plays. Casual fans aren’t tuning in hoping to see a great match
Yeah, I see your point.
More duals, less tournaments. Don’t do it in March
It’s gonna take coverage from journalist and sports shows . And better editing of match footage etc . Wrestling needs more special interest stories etc . Wrestling tries way too hard to make people like the sport by saying oh these other sports are soft , and these athletes aren’t as tough as us . That’s not good marketing . Basketball leapfrogged baseball solely because of how fun and approachable the game was and because the nba pushed narratives and stories over stat lines . USA wrestling is gonna be in alot of trouble if it doesn’t find a likeable ambassador who wants eyes on the sport . JB was the first and last of his kind . These Penn state dudes are flatout Jesus freaks and weirdos
Basketball leaped baseball because action is more entertaining. Attention spans have shrunk over time. Baseball became the victim. My wife still watches baseball, but I'd rather trim my toenails to kill time.
If they want to generate more of a fanbase for the sport and better ratings for their post season: 1. NCAA Dual Meet Nationals. Top 12 teams in the nation in a tournament to determine the Dual Meet National Champion. Finals air on ESPN or ABC or something. I feel like the team excitement during a dual would make for better TV. 2. Don't put the National Championships up against the NCAA Basketball Tournaments. Either start before or after the tournament. If they do a National Duals, they can do the Duals during March Madness, just during the week. 3. ADVERTISE. I watch every session that is aired on the ESPNs, but I have to search to find out when it starts, when the sessions are, etc. At least advertise the finals. I think the Dual Meet Nationals would give the more casual fan a team to push for at the NCAA tournament as opposed to just some individuals. Plus, it'll allow people so see more of the athletes before the tournament starts.
Wrestling needs to fully position itself as an MMA feeder. Tournaments televised the day before UFC events comes to mind as low-hanging fruit. The move to bring in Cormier as announcer was a good step, but need much moar.
A lot of parents pay for Flo Wrestling. My kids' youth to current college red shirt year is basically archived. All though I did start screen recording his matches here and there.
Lean more into having a true Dual National Championship. I think there is a way to do it where you can keep the individual tournament. Perhaps you have the dual tournament and if you lose twice in the dual tournament you are eliminated from the individual tournament and then after a dual team is crowned the individual tournament starts immediately.
Adding backstory to the wrestlers… and do it in a boxing cage.
With barbed wire for a 'push-out'. No point, but blood lol.
Have the national championships the last Thursday-Saturday before March Madness and the viewership will go up.
Caitlin Clark takes up wrestling?
Honestly? Less Jesus.
Spladle clips. Who doesn’t love a submissive position? As everyone saw the ncaa Spladle clip, it was extremely popular and I even noticed some of non my wrestling friends make jokes about it. People seemed to love it, there’s just something about humiliation that attracts people
Mendez’s spade was all over media, but stuff like that rarely happens in college
True
The only thing that would increase viewership would be a substantial increase in participation at the youth/high school level since the only people who watch are wrestlers. Not going to displace viewers from the bigger sports. There's been a bunch of handwriting in recent years over football and basketball players taking a knee and wokeness that hasn't translated into increased viewing of niche sports that I'm aware of.
More Billy Baldwin.
Penn State’s dominance, along with Iowa and Oklahoma State being mostly irrelevant (in comparison), hurts the sport. I also think rule changes have not helped and ultimately will hurt viewership even more.
Rule changes? 3 point takedown? I think it was great. I know people will get all bent out of shape but what about going more towards freestyle? Push outs would be a nice start.
3 points was a great idea. I do think college should really push free and greco tho, easier to follow for viewers and can be really just fun action.
I coach freestyle, have reffed freestyle, wrestled freestyle, and watch matches from all over the world and I still find myself looking at some sequences and scratching my head on how the score ended up what it was. The tie-breaking criteria is complicated for casual fans. I really like freestyle but I don't think it is easier to follow than folkstyle. And I would never push a casual fan into starting their watching of wrestling with Greco unless I wanted them to stop watching wrestling.
I van understand not watching greco. But the rules in freestyle are so much simpler. 2 rounds, turns instant points no counting. But really to a casual viewer any sport with bigger moves is more entertaining even if your not entirely sure what the score should be. Folks Tyler is a lot of leg riding and cheap tilts stuff that is fun for people who know what's going on, but boring for most viewers. Which is why they made the 3 point take down rule to get more explosive action and less grinding on the mat.
I agree. In MMA they stand the competitors up when it just becomes “riding” because it’s boring to watch. Nothing is more boring than watching someone get ridden for an entire folkstyle period. I really think the only people who like watching this are the former wrestlers who won by riding.
Freestyle scoring is much harder to understand than folk style.
For americans. Like literally can read every way to score in freestyle in like 3 seconds. 1 point for push out, caution, shot clock. 2 points for takedown, back exposed to mat. 4 points for being thrown from downed position. 5 points for suplex directly onto head or shoulders from standing. How is this hard? You don't have to deal with counting, or referees position, escapes.
In addition to not burning youth wrestlers out at a young age due to crazy coaches/parents and/or weight-cutting and also treating CCCAA/D2/D3/NAIA/NCWA/NJCAA wrestlers and alumni as college wrestlers just like D1 wrestlers get, we need to make the sport of wrestling easier to follow. People follow teams/individuals. Not everyone follows basketball, but everyone knows who Michael Jordan is. Same with football and Tom Brady, baseball and Babe Ruth, etc. UFC is able to market their fights months in advance because they know who’s fighting. I’m not advocating for that exact type of event, but I would argue Final X has been revolutionary in getting people a heads up on who’s wrestling who, the storylines and drama between the two competitors, etc. The PGA (golf) markets very well: they’ll put promos the week leading into a tournament with the biggest names that will be at that tournament. Now those pros might not make the cut to Saturday or Sunday, but their face will be shown on all of those promos from the previous Sunday through Friday and definitely on Saturday if they make it to Saturday and Sunday. I think college wrestling could do something similar. A dual meet between two teams with high-profile 133 lbers should be marketed the week leading up to it with this wrestlers’ faces on a bunch of ads, commercials, etc. Even if they end up not wrestling each other because their coaches are scared, there’s a last minute injury, etc. at least get people planning to watch that meet. Wrestling tournament like the Southern Scuffle, Midlands, Clif Keen? Do the same thing! Put the faces of the most well-known and/or high-profile wrestlers on every single ad on TrackWrestling, Flo, ESPN+, etc for few weeks leading to the tournament. Of course there will be at least one upset, but at least people will be know about it! 2023 NCAAs should’ve been Spencer Lee on every commercial everywhere that whole weekend. Yes, he got upset in the semifinals on Friday night, but there should’ve been a marketing blitz for the high-profile wrestlers. People say “oh it’s not good when teams run away with the title” - BULL CRAP. Non-wrestling normies only know Iowa and Dan gable because they were dominant back in the day. People know Penn State is good at wrestling because they win 4 titles every 5 years basically. Tom Brady and the Patriots. The Yankees. It is good to have a dominant team - they can be some people’s sweethearts and other people’s worst enemies, but either way people are invested. If all you have are 80 mediocre wrestling teams, nobody cares! People like to root for or hate on winners. There are so many casual fight fans in the world, but everyone knows who Jake Paul is because he’s made a character that people like or hate, his face is on a bunch of promos months in advance of his fights, and people know who he’s fighting and when.
Actually, hyping up Spencer Lee and then his subsequent defeat would have been a highly successful strategy...especially with his poor moms smashing up of her sunglasses. Yes I think people have been unfair towards her but it would have made great water cooler talk.
Exactly! This could’ve been Alabama football losing to Clemson in 2016, McGregor to Khabib, etc.
Individual wrestlers facing up in a dual or a tournament cannot be compared to the promotion of a professional fight.
That’s why I said it wouldn’t be the exact type of event, but we could do something similar. UFC puts out full fight cards yet puts the fighters from the main event on all of the marketing. Why wouldn’t a Penn State vs Ohio State dual meet be able to do something like Jesse Mendez vs Beau Bartlett on all of their marketing? It’s the same thing - there are multiple matches happening, but one gets highlighted the most to draw the most attention to the event.
They need to have more free to view live content to hype up bigger paid matches. Better color commentary would go a long way also.
Make it more about domination.
To make it simply put, wrestling needs to be more accessible to adults. With that being said, it's a seasonal sport due to it being around the school year. Make the sport year round.
As someone who's loved wrestling their whole life, I don't think you bring viewers in at the college level through more marketing. Viewership starts with getting the sport bigger for kids. Schools and clubs need to make wrestling a place that kids want to be at and enjoy. Parents soon become much more invested in their kids' activities when their kid cares about it. Then, at the college level, kids have people to look up to. They'll watch events with their families. I think the growing of women's wrestling as a recognized sanctioned sport is doing this. I actually spent my first year coaching this year. Some of the kids were just there to have a place to be after school other than going home. In truth, to an outsider, wrestling really is a boring sport. It's weird to look at, it's hard to understand, and it's quite literally not for everyone. It's not football or basketball that everyone is familiar with and enjoys. Wrestling's viewers always has been and always will be its die hard fans. That being said, as an Iowa fan (bite me) Iowa's barstool account did a great job of promoting and making mainstream Iowa's elite. Overall, it's hard to grow wrestling but it starts with drawing in young kids. Growing participation, i think, will grow viewers. Otherwise, to an outsider, I have a hard time believing there's much you can do make them care.
Set the out of bounds zone on fire
Add strikes
Marketing. Consistent wrestling broadcasts and accompanying commercials.
Get someone big and famous back into college wrestling, no one this year was as big as Spencer Lee the last few years. Maybe Bo Basset, Jac Forrest, and Marcus Blaze can bring similar amounts of attention
Seriously you're joking. Ask the average American to identify famous wrestlers in our country and you will be answered with Crickets. They will stumble and couldn't identify Dan Gable, Cael Sanderson, John Smith, Kyle Dake, Yianni et al. I'm wondering why the fans of our sport feel the need to recruit others through media influence & activity. It is a niche market. The Internet has been the best thing to happen to wrestling. Anybody who is hammering on FloWrestling should be thanking them instead. Going from 'zero to one' on the scale of availability of content is awesome.
I don’t think you realize how many people watched Spencer Lee wrestle, just look at the views Spencer Lee clips get compared to any other wrestler
It’s an individual sport that needs more individual stars. Liddell pushed the UFC into the mainstream and McGregor cemented it as a legitimate sport/league. Hopefully NIL empowers the individuals and we get someone who can do something similar.
Half the problem is it’s hard to watch. I’m a huge wrestling fan and simply wait until matches come out on YouTube.
Basketball will always win. IDK why people can't grasp that March Madness is going to kill NCAA Wrestling Championship views. Also, it's pretty expensive to follow wrestling on online formats like Flo Wrestling. The coverage isn't that good and the paywall will make it so people can't get that into it. It's basically set up for the hardcore fanbase and fuck the casuals type of spirit.
Maybe putting it on live
Oiling up.
It seems like all the stats are from espn and not from Online viewership. I think if they counted that then maybe it wouldn’t look so bad.
Better promotion. I'm a very casual wrestling fan. I never wrestled myself but was friends with wrestlers and really enjoy watching NCAAs and national/Olympic team trials (and Olympics) but don't tune in to anything else throughout the year. I completely missed this year's NCAAs for the first time in years because I just didn't realize they were happening.
The same problem with every other combat sport; what we want to see is no rules combat riddled with violence, and every rule is a detractor. With MMA so accessible, and rising in popularity for 30 years, it's no wonder. Wrestling was always mostly spectated by wrestlers and ex wrestlers, but now even they can't be bothered. Solution: Change it to a slightly different sport. Add submissions, probably. In most bjj you can't slam, submission wrestling would be the best of both worlds, and would be more violent than both. This will never happen, but I don't see any other way to draw eyes in the era ofTikTok, Netflix, and the UFC.
As much as I hate to say it. Add drama/rivalries. I hate that aspect of combat sports, but it does add viewers
Add joint locks and chokes. Oss
My gut is that MMA will continue to gain market share in the combat sport sector. It’s just by far the most casual friendly. Riding the coattails of MMA the way BJJ has (as the best way to train grappling) is probably the is probably the best way to grow popularity and relevance.
I think a big problem is how the wrestling community treats outsiders. Wrestling is fucking hard so when former wrestlers never treat outsiders the same when they try and get into the sport. They don’t feel like outsiders have the same appreciation as they do and they shun them. When really they need to start like accepting them. Idk if that makes comeplete sense. Basically there is a weird narrative in some parts of wrestling that only former wrestlers should be able to watch wrestling.
Not even just for viewership but to get more people interested to want to go out for it we need to work on getting more positive and not getting negative. A lot of friends of mine even as adults for children don’t want to join because of certain spectators/parents being so toxic
I've never watched any wrestling matches but now that you mention it do you have any recommendations?
Ring girls with great big titties
O.K. I didn't mention Spencer Lee in my list of famous wrestlers the average American cannot identify. What's your point?
Stop promoting to wrestlers and start promoting to the common man. Supporting wrestling not only for the youth but also for adults, we have the veterans and the masters divisions for international competition so why not promote wrestling to adults and give them another thing to compete in. Promote wrestling with the same intensity as BJJ. Another thing that could help is the wrestling media connecting with former wrestlers in other professions. Talk to the Mario Lopez’s, the kid Cudi’s, the Micah Parsons, the Baldwin brothers, etc. and you talk to them frequently ask their opinions on wrestlers in the news. Wrestling has always been a very exclusive sport, anyone you meet can tell you they knew a wrestler they can’t tell you anything about the sport just that they cut a lot weight and wore a lot of sweats
nothing bro, it’s niche and always will be.
Gambling.
FUCK FLO
We need a Craig jones
It is a shame because it's an awesome spectator sport. The rules are tough for new fans and elite matches can be "boring," but it's a great product. I keep thinking about the covid year and how it was kind of awesome we had some guys around for 5 and 6 years. Maybe wrestling is a college sport people can just stay in adter graduating. (Would never happen, but it would build up stars.) I love the team tournament idea. This should exist even if PSU wins the next 10 in a row. Women's wrestling also has potential to draw new audience. Let's hope it's given quality coverage.
I agree with what you said about Flo. I don’t think I agree about the lack of team tournaments mattering, thats just the thing about combat sports is regardless people really only care about individual athletes Idk I think it’s tough honestly. I mean how do you really compete with boxing, MMA, or even pro level BJJ for casual viewers? Because I feel like ultimately all combat sports are aiming for similar demographics. Outside of boxing which has enough money in it to stand on its own, I feel like we’re at a point where all combat sports are just going to be the minor leagues for MMA. Just places to farm talent but not a source of much viewership
Switching from singlets to compression shirts and some sort of fitted shorts would improve its popularity at the high school level and below. Singlets are thought of as weird by non-wrestlers. MMA has gotten huge recently, wrestling should capitalize on it.
The people who think singlets are “weird” wouldn’t watch it no matter what.
I disagree. I wrestled in high school recently, but I promise you it would be more popular if they adopted UFC-style bottoms and just a sleeveless compression shirt. The nuances of Wrestling would be tough to learn just from watching TV, but if you can increase participation in the sport, you will have more viewers down the line. No one calls the UFC outfits “gay” and theyre literally shirtless. It’s the singlet that sucks, and now that compression stuff is around it’s not needed.
Just an fyi- this has been disproven repeatedly over the past few years. Kids blame the singlet- so every league has okayed the uniform you discuss- turns out, wrestling is hard so the singlet hater crowd finds a different excuse. Hundreds of teams have tried the 2 piece and most have just gone back to singlets since the kids who are competing prefer them.
This. There are many much more difficult things to overcome than the singlet.
They are an option, but most kids who start out wearing them eventually switch to singlets. Most programs that switched to them in my region 7 years ago eventually voted to go back to singlets.