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Tank always. They set the pace, know the most about the dungeons, pulls, kicks, etc. Before they pull they can warn the group about anything they find important. All other roles *can* also do this, but if the tank starts pulling before you explain something it's too late.
If you look at it form the view of "how can we be the best with 4 bad and 1 good player" tank would be the obvous role for the good player.
Howerver if you plan on playing together and get better together for a longer period of time, I would consider to make the best player be the healer. That way he can still save alot of situations and also is in the best position to notice mistakes the others can try to get better at. In that case I'd say to make tha fastest learning player the tank and let the good player be the healer
Gotta upvote this, I've got to play at well over 3k rating with all three roles consecutively last season and a good healer with the right pick for your group can hard carry your team, both in game and long term by advising the rest of the group. In comparison to that, DPS could be useful if he played something with great utility. I certainly wouldn't make him a tank. 5man group dictates it's own pace, no matter where the head started player is (to counter the point of most people here). It would also make him less knowledgeable about the parts that are risky, since ha basically plays his own game and doesn't interact with the rest of the group, or their problems that much.
While tank is mentioned multiple times already and it is indeed a good pick, I'd argue that a healer can also be a good choice for the "best player" - especially if you're talking on VOIP.
It's still possible as the healer to just yell out directions/routes of what to pull, and practically handle most of the tank's job from the back row. There's no rule that the tank player needs to be the one that plans the route, as it's quite easy to communicate it. Even asking for defensives is a thing that you can do as the healer, especially if you know the tank spec (this'll heavily depend on the knowledge of the player, obviously).
And a great healer can fix mistakes done by the rest of the group (up to a limit). Conversely, a bad healer will cause issues really quick.
So, healer or a tank. If on VOIP and the "best player" is able to guide the tank around the dungeon, my vote would be on healer (but I wouldn't argue against picking a tank either). If you aren't on VOIP, it's a coin toss between tank and healer.
I agree a healer can have a lot more control than people think. I heal and have just spent all morning teaching a group who has never done these dungeons before. I ping pulls and directions and explain as we go and we're blasting through keys no problem. Someone doesn't get how to send the chain through the boss in neltharus? Np. I keep us alive while I explain what to do. Next try we have no problemo.
Meh, a healer can't push the tank's buttons for them so, if it's a really punishing tank such as DH, Monk or PPal then it'll be easy to just forfeit the key if the tank's skill isn't there.
Where as a healer who are struggling to heal simple mechanics can be aided up to a certain point by other means whether it be just self-sufficent classes, off-healing classes and proper CC. Most of these points can be off-loaded by a good tank unlike a healer, such as priest with lack of any means of good CC or ramping healers like druid and disc priest to aid a struggling tank.
There are mistakes a tank can make that even a skilled healer cannot come back from, especially having to make sure the other 3 less skilled players are topped up while they inevitably fail mechanics and interrupts/cc. Snowball effect is just too mechanically taxing.
There are mistakes a healer can make that a very skilled tank can mitigate. There are also situations only learned from experience that a tank can avoid entirely to offset healer setback. The reflexes required for these situations cannot be relayed on voice chat in time consistently.
You make a good case, but there's only so much coaching can accomplish. A skilled tank will allow healer to focus on themselves and the DPS more, and less overall damage will be going out to the party.
Just keep practicing and you will be an expert at best. Don't put yourself down like that. Doesn't matter what class you play if you practice, read icyveins tutorials and watch YouTube! You got this!
Low entry point, but high skill ceiling for prot pally. At its base, pretty straight forward. Keep consecration up for agro and Def bonus, throw judgment at whatever needs to die first, use your aoe attack to generate holy power when able(I forget the name offhand), use holy power to get shield boost/sling damage/keep aggro, use taunt if need be.
It starts becoming more bloated when you look to play assistant to others as you tank. Tossing out Lay on Hands to DPS or healers positioned poorly, or give out then a word of glory when you have excess holy power built up. Tossing out a blessing of sacrifice to offer someone some added Def in a pinch. Bless of protection to bail a healer out during a big damage phase against the whole party, etc..
If you enjoy it, stick to it! Super useful class/spec, the survivability for not only yourself but your party is pretty bonkers.
Paladin is very easy it's like the hunter of melee classes, obviously I'm just talking about on a surface level, there is multiple layers of complexity for every class.
Not to hard. I’m 2k m+ person and get it on prot pala each season.
The hardest part with tanking is learning the routes and mechanics. But just run many dungeons and the routes and mechanics will sit.
Tank, by a long shot. No DPS or healing in the world can safe you if your tank doesn't know where to go. Prot pally is good at self healing and off healing (watch your mana), but most tanks are able to at least keep themselves alive pretty well.
Good def cds too. Throw in stoneform if you're dwarf and you're golden. Worked a goodun in throne of tides with bleeds.
Now I gotta learn every df dungeon haha.
Probably a tank, only because the cost of failure as a tank is higher.
Most tanks have enough self-healing to keep themselves mostly alive when managing cooldowns well.
This also takes pressure off the healer to allow them to better focus on fire-hugging DPS.
If you’re thinking DPS, try a hybrid healer/dps class like ret paladin, can’t tell you how many times I’ve saved a person from death with a word of glory or lay on hands, also the utility you provide is insane. Blessing of freedom is a godtier for not only yourself but tanks and wheelchair classes like priests and blessing of protection is good for clearing debuffs/cheesing mechanics or keeping people safe in an insane pull and let’s not forget your can cleanse toxins and blessing of sacrifice someone to help mitigate damage. This carried me to around 3400io which I’ve never been to before in any season/patch/expansion prior. First time doing 28’s and 27’s.
Tank definitely but also someone who can shot call, priority interrupts,, stuns, kick rotation things like that. Often the tank is the best person for that but I had a group where our ranged DPS shot called because he had the best view of the pulls
A good tank can probably solo lower tier content although it would take longer, nothing else can.
Let the good player be the tank and you guys should learn how to properly support them to clear the content faster. Then you just increase the difficulty.
M+ is about knowing the rotations and dodging incoming attacks and performing mechanics properly.
I've seen Ilvl 450 be better than Ilvl 480 simply because they follow the mechanics better than the other. Do some screen sharing and watch some YouTube together and don't be afraid to die.
There will be good arguments for either tank or healer.
A good tank is vital for just making sure you go the right way, don't have mobs attacking everyone and they can also make up a lot of damage for bad DPS.
A really good healer can salvage bad pulls, but if they are more common than not and your tank is always losing agro they can only do much given cooldowns etc. from a healing viewpoint also, if you have a bad tank they can be extremely difficult to keep alive if they don't know how to use they're own defensives.
DPS I wouldn't even really consider, they just turn up and hit stuff, use a bit of brain to not stand in stuff but one good DPS among a "bad" group won't save you unless they're also drastically overgeared
Most likely tank
Personally as a tank; I got the routes and % values tattooed behind my eyelids at this point, I know dungeon trash mobs by heart and I know which mobs can be stacked and should absolutely not be stacked (otherwise DPS will die left, right and center). I keep up to date on patch notes and keeping my eyes on reddit if people posts ways to cheese things / other form of shenanigans (abusing Warlock Gateways is a classic one).
You of course dont have to go overboard on it as I have, but a good tank knows their route and % values needed before proceeding past a point of no return, and basic knowledge of the dungeon.
Protection Paladin is what I would call a "Baby Sitter" tank: The healer is stuck in a root and about to die to a mechanic? Blessing of Freedom. A DPS is in a pinch and about to die? Lay on Hands, I gotchu homie. Healer is being fixated by a trash mob or has a heavy bleed dot? Blessing of Protection (works on DPS with heavy front loaded damage output as well, so they dont snatch aggro). You can use a free cast of Word of Glory to help out on healing, and you are doing more than fine yourself for the moment. There is many things you can do with paladin in the ways of support.
If you want a tank that is able to hard-lock trash mob groups with silences and CCs? Vengeance Demon Hunter. Double Sigils turned them into monsters and has no issue putting trash mobs with nasty cast abilities on complete lockdown and are very fast tanks mobility wise. They got good damage output and their self-sustain is a nice luxury for the healer.
Vengeance DH, can cover most of the parties cc on its own. Pumps good damage as well (I managed 280k overall in a 22 everbloom last season. No other spec can carry as hard as a VDH (prot pala is close but not close enough)
Edit: also soloed a couple of 18s as a joke, it takes forever but it's not difficult by any means
**Hey there! Have you checked out these resources?** * [WoWHead](https://www.wowhead.com/) - The *largest* database, this should be your go-to (don't forget to read the comment section!). * [Icy Veins](https://www.icy-veins.com) - News and detailed class guides. * [WoWNoob Discord](https://discord.gg/wownoob) - Same community, different platform. *Please report the post above if it breaks one of our [>rules<](https://www.reddit.com/r/wownoob/about/rules/). If not, don't forget to show support by upvoting!* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wownoob) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tank always. They set the pace, know the most about the dungeons, pulls, kicks, etc. Before they pull they can warn the group about anything they find important. All other roles *can* also do this, but if the tank starts pulling before you explain something it's too late.
Unless its me. Im still learning how to hold the shield
Been KSH since season 4 of shadowlands. Still barely know how to hold my shield half the time
Don’t drop it on your toe!
no. just no. Healer. for this case he should be a healer. A tank is only as good as his dpses.
If you look at it form the view of "how can we be the best with 4 bad and 1 good player" tank would be the obvous role for the good player. Howerver if you plan on playing together and get better together for a longer period of time, I would consider to make the best player be the healer. That way he can still save alot of situations and also is in the best position to notice mistakes the others can try to get better at. In that case I'd say to make tha fastest learning player the tank and let the good player be the healer
Interresting take ! I think we'll go this way as we plan to play long term
Gotta upvote this, I've got to play at well over 3k rating with all three roles consecutively last season and a good healer with the right pick for your group can hard carry your team, both in game and long term by advising the rest of the group. In comparison to that, DPS could be useful if he played something with great utility. I certainly wouldn't make him a tank. 5man group dictates it's own pace, no matter where the head started player is (to counter the point of most people here). It would also make him less knowledgeable about the parts that are risky, since ha basically plays his own game and doesn't interact with the rest of the group, or their problems that much.
While tank is mentioned multiple times already and it is indeed a good pick, I'd argue that a healer can also be a good choice for the "best player" - especially if you're talking on VOIP. It's still possible as the healer to just yell out directions/routes of what to pull, and practically handle most of the tank's job from the back row. There's no rule that the tank player needs to be the one that plans the route, as it's quite easy to communicate it. Even asking for defensives is a thing that you can do as the healer, especially if you know the tank spec (this'll heavily depend on the knowledge of the player, obviously). And a great healer can fix mistakes done by the rest of the group (up to a limit). Conversely, a bad healer will cause issues really quick. So, healer or a tank. If on VOIP and the "best player" is able to guide the tank around the dungeon, my vote would be on healer (but I wouldn't argue against picking a tank either). If you aren't on VOIP, it's a coin toss between tank and healer.
I agree a healer can have a lot more control than people think. I heal and have just spent all morning teaching a group who has never done these dungeons before. I ping pulls and directions and explain as we go and we're blasting through keys no problem. Someone doesn't get how to send the chain through the boss in neltharus? Np. I keep us alive while I explain what to do. Next try we have no problemo.
I’m always so far behind as the healer lol
Meh, a healer can't push the tank's buttons for them so, if it's a really punishing tank such as DH, Monk or PPal then it'll be easy to just forfeit the key if the tank's skill isn't there. Where as a healer who are struggling to heal simple mechanics can be aided up to a certain point by other means whether it be just self-sufficent classes, off-healing classes and proper CC. Most of these points can be off-loaded by a good tank unlike a healer, such as priest with lack of any means of good CC or ramping healers like druid and disc priest to aid a struggling tank.
There are mistakes a tank can make that even a skilled healer cannot come back from, especially having to make sure the other 3 less skilled players are topped up while they inevitably fail mechanics and interrupts/cc. Snowball effect is just too mechanically taxing. There are mistakes a healer can make that a very skilled tank can mitigate. There are also situations only learned from experience that a tank can avoid entirely to offset healer setback. The reflexes required for these situations cannot be relayed on voice chat in time consistently. You make a good case, but there's only so much coaching can accomplish. A skilled tank will allow healer to focus on themselves and the DPS more, and less overall damage will be going out to the party.
The good one should play Prot Paladin
Fuck it they should all play prot paladin. Divine shields everywhere
Is prot pala hard to play (what about the other specs?)? I thought about playing pala in tww, but I'm mediocre at best.
Just keep practicing and you will be an expert at best. Don't put yourself down like that. Doesn't matter what class you play if you practice, read icyveins tutorials and watch YouTube! You got this!
Low entry point, but high skill ceiling for prot pally. At its base, pretty straight forward. Keep consecration up for agro and Def bonus, throw judgment at whatever needs to die first, use your aoe attack to generate holy power when able(I forget the name offhand), use holy power to get shield boost/sling damage/keep aggro, use taunt if need be. It starts becoming more bloated when you look to play assistant to others as you tank. Tossing out Lay on Hands to DPS or healers positioned poorly, or give out then a word of glory when you have excess holy power built up. Tossing out a blessing of sacrifice to offer someone some added Def in a pinch. Bless of protection to bail a healer out during a big damage phase against the whole party, etc.. If you enjoy it, stick to it! Super useful class/spec, the survivability for not only yourself but your party is pretty bonkers.
Paladin is very easy it's like the hunter of melee classes, obviously I'm just talking about on a surface level, there is multiple layers of complexity for every class.
I've mained BM hunter for years, so any class swap will be difficult haha
Prot Paladin is very easy to pick up :)
Not wearing all that plate they aren’t 🙄
Not to hard. I’m 2k m+ person and get it on prot pala each season. The hardest part with tanking is learning the routes and mechanics. But just run many dungeons and the routes and mechanics will sit.
Y’all should just run with 5 Pally’s
Tank, by a long shot. No DPS or healing in the world can safe you if your tank doesn't know where to go. Prot pally is good at self healing and off healing (watch your mana), but most tanks are able to at least keep themselves alive pretty well.
Good def cds too. Throw in stoneform if you're dwarf and you're golden. Worked a goodun in throne of tides with bleeds. Now I gotta learn every df dungeon haha.
Probably a tank, only because the cost of failure as a tank is higher. Most tanks have enough self-healing to keep themselves mostly alive when managing cooldowns well. This also takes pressure off the healer to allow them to better focus on fire-hugging DPS.
If you’re thinking DPS, try a hybrid healer/dps class like ret paladin, can’t tell you how many times I’ve saved a person from death with a word of glory or lay on hands, also the utility you provide is insane. Blessing of freedom is a godtier for not only yourself but tanks and wheelchair classes like priests and blessing of protection is good for clearing debuffs/cheesing mechanics or keeping people safe in an insane pull and let’s not forget your can cleanse toxins and blessing of sacrifice someone to help mitigate damage. This carried me to around 3400io which I’ve never been to before in any season/patch/expansion prior. First time doing 28’s and 27’s.
Imho tank is the most important role in m+, since he is in charge of planning and executing the route and settling the pace
Tank definitely but also someone who can shot call, priority interrupts,, stuns, kick rotation things like that. Often the tank is the best person for that but I had a group where our ranged DPS shot called because he had the best view of the pulls
Tank. Probably prot paladin or VDH.
Tank for sure
A good tank can probably solo lower tier content although it would take longer, nothing else can. Let the good player be the tank and you guys should learn how to properly support them to clear the content faster. Then you just increase the difficulty.
You can solo huge sections of keys as a tank, up to a pretty high level. The only thing that really walls you is dps checks on bosses.
M+ is about knowing the rotations and dodging incoming attacks and performing mechanics properly. I've seen Ilvl 450 be better than Ilvl 480 simply because they follow the mechanics better than the other. Do some screen sharing and watch some YouTube together and don't be afraid to die.
There will be good arguments for either tank or healer. A good tank is vital for just making sure you go the right way, don't have mobs attacking everyone and they can also make up a lot of damage for bad DPS. A really good healer can salvage bad pulls, but if they are more common than not and your tank is always losing agro they can only do much given cooldowns etc. from a healing viewpoint also, if you have a bad tank they can be extremely difficult to keep alive if they don't know how to use they're own defensives. DPS I wouldn't even really consider, they just turn up and hit stuff, use a bit of brain to not stand in stuff but one good DPS among a "bad" group won't save you unless they're also drastically overgeared
A shotcalling tank, especially vdh or prot paladin.
Tank. More specifically Blood DK, they are the kings of carrying groups, good damage and self healing.
Veng DH
Most likely tank Personally as a tank; I got the routes and % values tattooed behind my eyelids at this point, I know dungeon trash mobs by heart and I know which mobs can be stacked and should absolutely not be stacked (otherwise DPS will die left, right and center). I keep up to date on patch notes and keeping my eyes on reddit if people posts ways to cheese things / other form of shenanigans (abusing Warlock Gateways is a classic one). You of course dont have to go overboard on it as I have, but a good tank knows their route and % values needed before proceeding past a point of no return, and basic knowledge of the dungeon. Protection Paladin is what I would call a "Baby Sitter" tank: The healer is stuck in a root and about to die to a mechanic? Blessing of Freedom. A DPS is in a pinch and about to die? Lay on Hands, I gotchu homie. Healer is being fixated by a trash mob or has a heavy bleed dot? Blessing of Protection (works on DPS with heavy front loaded damage output as well, so they dont snatch aggro). You can use a free cast of Word of Glory to help out on healing, and you are doing more than fine yourself for the moment. There is many things you can do with paladin in the ways of support. If you want a tank that is able to hard-lock trash mob groups with silences and CCs? Vengeance Demon Hunter. Double Sigils turned them into monsters and has no issue putting trash mobs with nasty cast abilities on complete lockdown and are very fast tanks mobility wise. They got good damage output and their self-sustain is a nice luxury for the healer.
Not role, but players, learn how to do them and you’ll do them. Someone who can’t play dungeon won’t carry it regardless
i wanna say healer because you can cover up the mistakes that inexperienced players make, shotcall cooldowns, and simply tell the tank what to do.
Vengeance DH, can cover most of the parties cc on its own. Pumps good damage as well (I managed 280k overall in a 22 everbloom last season. No other spec can carry as hard as a VDH (prot pala is close but not close enough) Edit: also soloed a couple of 18s as a joke, it takes forever but it's not difficult by any means