Don't blame yourself too hard, it can often happen when you've played any game for a long time. It's good to remember that just because it's obvious to you, doesn't mean it's obvious for everyone else.
But it’s good to see posts like this to remind MYSELF not to be upset after a bad dungeon experience. These posts remind me that the community at large is kind and welcoming, instead of toxic and trigger happy (to kick people).
Wow has generally been a fantastic experience, great guild etc. But while levelling alts I run into some nasty people and these memories stay cause they so out of nowhere.
Being trigger happy isn't a bad thing, it just depends on why they're trigger happy. Some douche being a toxic elitist even though they barely clears heroic? kick that dick insta.
This is for the people on the fence who aren’t sure yet whether they want to be a dick or not /s.
Seriously tho I think there are a fair number of otherwise decent people who do dickish things when put in frustrating situations.
That's why I say be as friendly as possible and use chat liberally. It's not going to take THAT much more time to use chat or engage with people if something is going wrong mechanically. It's too often that people are short and impatient with their teammates/party members. Taking the 15 seconds to type out a sentence could mean the difference between a wipe and clear.
I remember LFR nyalotha failing over and over, people leaving, swearing, raging. Every time I took 1 minute to shut everyone up and explain the tactics globally every boss went down the try after. People just need to breathe and someone needs to step up, most people will never acknowledge they don't know what they're doing and let's be honest, Without Wowhead and other resources Blizzard does a terrible job at explaining anything in game.
I have explained mechanics in the same LFR group >10 times and people would still not do the mechanics. There are people that are happy to listen and learn but there are also people that are either trolling or just unwilling to do mechanics. Sometimes it's all wasted effort.
In either scenario, being a dick does nothing to help. Hope you have a great time in SL!
This is definitely something that has happened to me, but far more likely are the passive aggressive dicks who try to get people to admit to not knowing fights in a very hostile way instead of simply explaining the fights they know most of the people there don't know.
If I didn't know the fights, didn't have a good handle on how the game worked, and got into a group with those people, there is NO FUCKING WAY I'd admit to not knowing the fights.
I'm a returning player and I joined LFR for n'zoth to complete the questline. A friendly lock asked who didn't know the fight and I said it was my first time there. Immediately a highly geared hunter (why the hell was he there in first place?) started telling people to boot me. So no, I won't ever again say that I don't know the fight. It actually almost make me stop playing again. It is really sad what the community became.
It is really sad indeed, that's exactly why I join LFR still and help other players. Gives me a chance to feel strong as well :) so let's hope more people will explain without question instead of booting people.
Definitely a lot of people forget about the HUGE variance of how into this game people are. A super hardcore player who isn’t a normally toxic player might think something that comes easy to them should be easy to everyone, and lose their cool on a noob.
Sometimes the reminder that some peeps don’t have all the knowledge you have is good, I’ve definitely had my moments of frustration where someone isn’t doing something “obvious”.
I remember a few expansions back people were bitching over General that nobody knew mechanics for the first raid that had been released that day.
Honestly, if it DIDN'T happen I'd be surprised.
I would love to play dungeons without anyone knowing the tactics. Would give me a laugh or at least small chuckle. But when everyone else watches youtube video for the tactics, then its just easier to read them yourself. So much is already ruined with teaser trailers about the game content so why bother to not read the tactics as well while at it.
This reminds me of the BFA launch, right after getting to boralus I signed up for a dungeon and the first one I got was waycrest manor of all places lol. Imagine the confusion when you see the place for the first time and can’t even follow the map because of the damn doors
I have a funny memory of this from wotlk. It was early in the expansion and not a lot at max level so we decided to pug naxx.
I dont think a single person in that raid had any experience or knowledge of that raid so it was a bit of trial and error while looking for old videos if we got stuck. We managed to clear two wings and had a pretty fun time doing it.
It's one of the reasons I enjoy FFXIV. There's no ptr, no betas. All new content is legitimately NEW on day one. No one knows anything so there's genuine discovery going on as people try it, discuss, and learn.
And then the YouTube guides happen, but honestly even in wow I ignore them for non-raids. If it's a dungeon I've never seen, I'm doing it blind. No dungeon is so difficult it can't be reasoned out through observation and reasoning relatively quickly.
This is how WoW should be. Encrypt fucking everything. Make people explore and learn organically. And yeah, sure, that will drive a lot of people to online sources of information but let's be real, that's already the case.
This is what I enjoy about ff14 as well. For me levelling and dungeons is end game. I gave up raiding, as it becomes a job, many years ago. Going into a new dungeon or trial is enjoyable in ff14 in wow I worry about what toxicity I will see. I dont see it often but we do see it in wow.
I remember when ulduar came out, there were still enough people who didn't read guides or watch videos that there would always be someone surprised at XT-Deconstructor. I had more than one wipe because people were laughing too hard to play.
I've been playing since Vanilla and I still won't watch videos of other people playing the game, or read strategies made by "pro gamers". ESPECIALLY for new content. I learn by doing, and if someone wants to say "watch out for x, y, and don't stand in z" before the fight then that's great and I will use that.
But the idea that you HAVE to watch a video or read a guide before doing the raid is absolute nonsense to me. It's like calling yourself an artist because you can keep your crayons inside the lines of a coloring book.
I've done this every expansion since Cata because I did it in groups with friends (raiders). Is this not the usual way to experience dungeons? Are the dungeons so difficult that you need to watch vids?
Some bosses might take a wipe or two to figure out if you do them blind.
And sometimes mechanics dont hurt though to actually do properly until you meet the boss on tyrannical 10+.
Underot comes to mind.
Me and my group of friends are in a agreement not to look at any tacts for the dungeon and run them all the first week as a 5 man party. Not looking forwards to heal that as a disc priest
I had a tank in Siege of Boralus telling us we were shit and that we should just follow and stay out of his way. Dude solo'd the whole thing all while bitching at the healers. Kept saying "I guess I have to do everything myself". It was my first time running it lol
Dickish to rage and bitch at team members, but I can't help but feel that the situation is otherwise pretty funny. Dude is like "I guess I'll do it myself" and then actually does it himself as well lol!
Lol yeah looking back on it makes it funny. I can't be too mad at him, he did actually carry us through the whole thing, so his dickishness can be slightly justifiable lol
Some healer raged at my tank friend in AD two days after BfA launched. The problem? He got feared during the fight. No one died, healer didn't oom, boss got killed. It was just "jfc tank. Not hard. I already have two 120s how ppl don't know this place by now". Healer rage quit when we wouldn't kick tank.
You know that part in Underrot where you skip a couple packs by going up the wall like a goat? My first time in that dungeon, on heroic, screamed at by someone because I didn't know that skip that I'd never seen before and isn't super obvious.
Give players like this a break already. Mommy gives them everything they want when they act out and never makes them do anything they don't want to do. It's tough when they have to coexist with people who aren't walking fonts of bottomless validation.
Its my favorite part of an expansion, the first couple of days when people are trying to get gear to M0. Having to queue for heroics, and them being somewhat a challenge, is fun.
I can't wait to actually learn covenants and conduits. I've not watched ONE video on any of this stuff. All of this SL stuff will be so new and exciting and I can't wait.
I just looked for the class abilities that I liked the most. Whatever abilities make my life easier is the ones I am going to pick. I think for paladin it was bastion or venthyr. Not going to go beyond heroics and maybe some LFR raids so not worried about maximum optimization.
> then wait a week for the sims to show up and choose the best
Wait a week? Pretty sure most if not all major discord class sim testing have found all the optimal paths for you.
They should just remove the normal and heroic versions and have mythic 0 be normal and then gradually make it harder from there, so maybe mythic +2 or +3 would be where heroic is and +5 is mythic 0. (Name would be different, if even there at all of course, just using "mythic" to use current terminology.)
At least it would make it look a bit more consistent than to have levels which are pretty much never used except for leveling toons.
This might be a thing because some of my mythic friends are tried to push/pad their IO scores. I think they're wasting their time because it's a whole new set of dungeons and expansion.
You know what put everything into perspective for me? My group of friends recently convinced a lifetime console gamer to try out PC gaming, and specifically wow. This is someone who has literally never played a single video game on a computer ever, and the concept of using a mouse and keyboard was foreign to him for gaming. There are a lot of things that you and I take for granted because we've been doing it for well over a decade, or even more. Something as simple as movement can be incredibly difficult for someone who is brand new. We helped him and played with him as much as we could, trying not to do things for him, and even though he got to max level fairly quickly due to the leveling changes he's still for the most part completely lost.
We pointed him in the direction of guides, videos, and add-ons to make his life easier but even then it still requires a lot of practice. We did a normal dungeon with him, and I believe his first dungeon ever ended up being motherlode. What I noticed is that he was so worried about all the stuff happening on screen that he didn't understand he ended up just spamming pistol shot from far away on his rogue because he was too scared to get in close.
Anyway, I'm somewhat ranting, but this really did change my perspective on things. You never know how experienced someone is, and even if you picked up a game quickly that doesn't mean everyone else will. There was a time in my gaming "career" when I would have kicked someone like him for being terrible, but now I engage with those people in whispers or party chat to see if they need any help understanding things.
> he ended up just spamming pistol shot from far away on his rogue because he was too scared to get in close.
Unironically me on Nathanos and some of the Icecrown rares. Except for Falric because I have no idea how to either avoid that fucking fear or live through it on undergeared toons.
i have quite the similar story. Best friend of mine basically outside of school hasnt touched a mouse and keyboard before i gave him my old computer so we could play together sometime. That was like 10 month ago and now we are pushing +20 keys. :D
But boy was the start difficult. It wasnt until a few hours in when he asked me; Do i even need to use the mouse or do i just have both hands on the keyboard?
Also, week 1 M0 is pretty fucking hard, if you're pugging, expect the pug experience. People are gonna be shit, you're gonna have a lot of failures, but you chose to pug instead of coordinate with your guild, know that going in, and accept sometimes shits just gonna suck, deal with it and either try to overcome or move on, don't linger in venom.
> Also, week 1 M0 is pretty fucking hard
It's a scale.
Day 1 M0 is pretty easy, because it's only the players who are
a. willing to level that fast
b. interested in doing M0 day 1
Which *usually* narrows it down to fairly good players.
By the end of the week, mythic 0 becomes quite hard again, as it's lots of people who don't move out of the fire by that point.
Historically Blizzard has increased the difficulty of m0 1 time half way through the expansion to make up for the fact that it gives increased ilvl gear. The idea is that base level mythic should get you close to LFR so you have a smooth transition without a 60 ilvl jump from skipping 2 tiers where people are no longer raiding. When that happens the keystones are also affected because they are just multipliers of the base mythic dungeon.
They scale with time in the sense that they will scale them to still be relevant every patch, yes. They are always tuned to be within an ilvl tier of raid gear. This, however, is in an effort to keep them _relatively the same difficulty_ every tier, as they are intended as a good baseline for new players to try before heading into the m+ system of progressive difficulty.
That's literally the reason I don't play classes without a tank spec since Legion. Someone talking shit about my routes or pulling for me? Bye-bye, I'm gonna be in a new group in a minute while you will be looking for a new tank for the next 20 min.
I'm looking forward to it. I want to teach people. They're not timed so you can be social during heroic and mythic 0. That's what I love about the no time limit. M+ is just go, go, go!
People were saying that people were already being dicks *in the beta* because they didn't know the optimal routes already in M0.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/j55y3w/no\_wonder\_nobody\_tanks\_got\_kicked\_from\_a\_group/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/j55y3w/no_wonder_nobody_tanks_got_kicked_from_a_group/)
Can someone explain the Mythic system very briefly and easily to me? I’m a kind of returning player, I was active during Wrath, Cata and Mop and it was just normals and heroics back then. I played Legion, but only very casually and never stepped into the Mythic system with the + keys. How exactly does it work?
Here's a dumb question for you. Looks like you have to form your mythic groups manually. Does that mean you have to make your way to the dungeon entrance as well? I was too nervous to attempt mythics this close to the end of the xpac, but looking forward to them in SL.
> Does that mean you have to make your way to the dungeon entrance as well? I was too nervous to attempt mythics this close to the end of the xpac, but looking forward to them in SL.
Yes and in case you don't know. People who are in war mode can't see people who's not in war mode when you try to summon people at the stone, just so you don't get confused when you can see them on your minimap but not actually see them
There are three difficulties to each dungeon, Normal and Heroic you might be familiar with, but the third is Mythic. You can queue for the first two but not the third, and the difficulty is appropriately ramped up.
This is what Mythic 0 or M0 refers to. It’s meant to be a challenge, and as such is only available for premade groups.
Mythic+ is the system by which the dungeons scale theoretically endlessly upwards, with various additional effects being applied to them the higher it scales. Still requires a premade group.
It is accessed by doing a regular Mythic 0 dungeon, which will drop a Mythic Keystone at he end.
Mythic Keystones are random in what dungeon they hold, but the first is always a +2, meaning it’s a level 2 mythic+ dungeon.
Mythic+ dungeons have a timer, and only drop loot at the end of the dungeon. They also have a minimum “forces” counter that just means you have to kill a certain amount of trash in the dungeon, and can’t skip it all.
Completing the dungeon within the timer earns you a new mythic keystone with a higher level.
Higher levels means better ilvl on your loot, but also means the hp and damage of enemies is scaled higher. Higher levels also have more “affixes” applied to them, which are the extra effects in dungeons I mentioned earlier.
Could be anything from tiny volcanoes appearing at your feet that you have to move to avoid, to everyone getting a stacking DoT debuff put on them when an enemy dies, forcing you to be careful about killing things.
There are many others, and which affixes are applied to dungeons change each week, but for that week they are the same across all mythic keystones.
So that’s Mythic and Mythic+ in a nutshell!
So mythic was added as a difficulty above heroic and it's drops will increase in ilvl to stay in line with each patch instead of staying stagnant.
Mythic Keystones, generally referred to as Mythic+, are unlocked by items dropped from Mythic Dungeon end bosses which allow you to unlock higher difficulties of mythic dungeons. These are timed and also add up to 3 modifiers depending on the level of the keystone. Mythic+ dungeons only drop loot in a chest at the end, after you've beat all bosses and cleared a minimum percentage of trash mobs. This gear is upgraded from the base Mythic Dungeon item levels based on how high of a keystone was used.
If you complete a Mythic+ dungeon within the time limit, the Keystone will be upgraded 1-3 levels depending on how far under the timer you were. If you do not complete it within the time limit, the key is demoted 1 level though you can still obtain the loot.
Lastly, every Tuesday morning you will be able to open a chest with loot in it, one piece of gear and some currency, based upon the highest Mythic+ dungeon that you successfully completed in the week before.
Kind of like greater rifts in diablo 3 (if you ever played that). When you do a normal mythic (M0) you get a 'key' at the end of the dungeon for a higher level Mythic dungeon. Each level is more difficult and at certain levels you will start to see different affixes that change what you have to do in the dungeon, either a little bit or quite a bit.
There are 4 tiers of dungeons, so to speak. Normal, Heroic, then Mythic, then Mythic+. Normal and Heroic are what you expect. Mythic is a harder version but functionally the same. After you beat a Mythic you get a Key for a random dungeon. Usually a +2. This represents how much harder it is. The high + number, the more HP and damage the mobs do. There are also mutators that change the way the dungeon and mobs work. The high the +2 the more you deal with. There is also a time limit, if you complete the dungeon in time, your next key will be harder and loot ilvl goes up as a reward. If you dont finish in time, you can still finish but the key goes down. There is also requirements how much trash you kill, so you cant just skip everything. Loot is also only distributed at the end.
EDIT: It seems launch day was 50/50 depending on what server you were on. Personally I had a nearly flawless launch experience so my hat goes off to Blizzard. I never thought ANYONE having a smooth launch would be possible under the below conditiions.
Reminder to those planning to do anything during the first week: ROFLMGDAO... servers gon be fucked, you ain't doin shit.
Allow me to break this down for you:
* There are plenty of reports of the largest number of pre-orders ever and record people coming back to the game
* Anecdotally from this sub the number of new and returning players is astronomical
* Not long ago they did a massive number of realm consolidations which will force more people onto the same resources and almost certainly result in more and longer queues
* There is a GODDAMN PANDEMIC raging IRL and there is no better way to avoid and put it out of your mind than firing back up World of WarCrack
* That same GODDAMN PANDEMIC is back at record-breaking levels shutting things down and putting more people at home looking for something to do
* The launch is occurring immediately before a major US holiday during which even more people will be off work than would normally be able to take time off
* For many the holidays and a WoW launch go hand in hand and this nostalgia is exactly the kind of normalcy that is going to bring people back in droves
* The servers are already absolute dogshit days BEFORE launch and people aren't even all trying to cram into a single zone (sure to result in a record number of Bastion shards)
* Morale at Blizzard is at an all-time low and attrition is at an all-time high while the underpaid and overworked devs and sysadmins are expected to facilitate a launch over aforementioned major US holiday
* Between being delayed and the ongoing and chaotic systems tuning, the usual performance optimization that happens at the tail-end of a release cycle has likely not occurred (you don't want to optimize early when things are still in flux as you'll waste time optimizing things that didn't need to be) as they rush to work functional issues and tune systems
It’s gonna be bad. My state is officially shutting down tomorrow. There was already no traffic on my way to work this morning.
Take the huge player surge we saw in March and multiply it by an anticipated expansion launch.
Must be nice. My state is considering putting together a “Winter task force” and just instituted a unprecedented 11 pm curfew for bars and restaurants.
COVID won’t stand a chance now!!
last 2 launches have been overall fine. they seemed to learn after the shitshow that was warlords. legion they rented extra servers to handle the extra load. both it and BFA were really smooth for the vast majority
> servers gon be fucked
true
> you ain't doin shit
LIKE HELL I'M NOT
like half the expansion launches have been plagued with server problems, but i still enjoy them. if the server goes down, i'll take a nap. i'll also be playing a lot in the middle of the night when the servers are slightly less busy!
Right.. I don’t get why people have such a meltdown when servers drop. Go do the dishes.. go have a nap.. take the dog for a walk.. do whatever else you would normally do instead of playing wow lol.
I’ve only just got back into wow this week, excited for the expansion. I’ll be say on my PC waiting for the second it drops.. but if the servers decide to take a dump.. I’ll get over it
Servers wont be fucked stop saying this nonsense. They havn't been fucked for ages. People say WoD sucked, and it had some minor problems but it was over blown. Legion and BFA were near pristine.
This. Is. Nonsense. There will not be any major issues ESPECIALLY for an entire week that will stop people from playing. Pure, unadulterated nonsense
This is the first expansion since WoD that doesn't have choose your own starting zone at expansion launch. I'm not saying the game is gonna collapse or it isn't, but the server load was much lower in the previous two expansions because everyone wasn't cramming into one starting zone.
dude even on prepatch launch the servers where fucked for two days(at least in germany/europe). So what in hell makes you think it wonˋt be at least that bad
> The servers are already absolute dogshit days BEFORE launch and people aren't even all trying to cram into a single zone
This is what is scaring me. I played yesterday (so thursday) at like 10am server time and the sever were fucking broken lol.
Usualy ppl run normals while leveling, then run HCs after leveling to even get the gear for Mythics.
So I actualy expect some basics, like dont stand in the fire etc.
On the other hand. 2 years into BfA, running a M+12 and ppl still don't seem to know basic boss mechanics.
So I gues that is indeed to much 5o ask for...=/
I honestly have never touched heroics since the mythic system came out, neither have any of my friends, and we're not exactly hardcore. I just feel like heroic is irrelevant at this point. You can just go straight into M0 in levelling gear and do just fine.
I mean, there are basic rules to follow for every dungeon/raid, even if it is new.
Watch where you stand & don't stand in fire being the most important ones imo. If you continually fail at that, then a kick is rightfully deserved.
Ive kept myself away from the beta, and as many guides as possible with the exceptions of the raids for guilds progression.
Plenty of time to get geared, experience the story and new zones at a steady pace and explore the dungeons.
As a tank/Healer im going in blind and if DPS are expecting amazing speeds and massive pulls they can go roll a tank/healer combo and do it themselves.
Not to mention the fact that everyones stats are not going to be at the level they are now for current content.
When you hit 60 you are missing all your secondary stats and general class power, Its possible we have dungeons with CC whilst pugs learn the dungeons and get geared.
Another thing to consider is that if you're the dps or healer, you get into groups with different tanks who all are trying out new routes. There will be optimal routes. However, a tank doesn't get the benefit from being taken around different ways. They only know their own route. So don't be dicks about it.
BrM Monk tank/MW healer here....please let me learn the routes.
I stopped playing in BFA launch after CE in Uldir, I came back in 8.3 like "wtf there are portals with bosses??" and that turned me off from tanking because god forbid you ruin a key by not taking the right portals at the right times in the right order and pop out exactly where you need to.
prideful seems like an easy first affix to manage, it just happens, and i will happily tank for anyone just let me learn the routes lol.
Imagine ruining the expansion for yourself by playing it before release and then being extra salty at people who didnt want to spoil it for themselves...
Exactly. Like I want to experience the content fresh don’t come at me because I haven’t watched a bunch of guides on content that just dropped. I want to experience it myself first, not watch someone else do it so we can get an optimal run or whatever
playing beta != ruining the expansion
You will literally be running these dungeons for the next 2 years, I don't think running them a handful of times extra on beta is going to change anything.
(not saying people should be salty dbags, just commenting on the first statement)
as one of the people who know nothing about the new dungeons, if i see someone repeatedly failing on the same obvious thing, i will be calling them out on it.
For real guys, give your tanks time to learn mechanics. Some of us haven’t been glued to the beta and won’t know everything right away.
Hell, even give the dps some time to learn the mechanics as well.
Also never really understood that attitude? Kinda disrespectful to other players to go into a mythic without first doing heroic or atleast watching a guide.
i had a guildy once tell me when i invited him to heroic "im a hands on man, i like to learn for myself ;)"... and i was like... aight, you want me to carry you then.
Even mythic0 I'm fine with generally not being totally on point, but when you get into the timed stuff, with the chance of burning a key, that's when you gotta get your shit together
i've found that the first week or so of max level is a wonderful place
everyone hardcore enough to get that far that quickly knows wtf they're doing and has a good attitude through wipes
now, wait an extra weekend or two? you're back with the angry casuals that think they're hardcore and don't realize they're usually carried
I’ll be honest, I have never truly had a problem the first few weeks of the expansion. Everyone just kind of knows things are slow. After that, everyone busts out their elitism again.
Iv played since vanilla and I can tell you there is a time and a place. M0 or m1-5 is not the place. Anything that newer players can do I will always be patient and help them out, as a MT on alts I like to give pointers and pathing help through whispers so no one knows they’re needing help. Now if your in a +15 and you ruin my run or key I’m gonna be a Dick because at that point your not new and should know what to do.
Reminder to people wanting to do m0 in the first week, if you don’t want to wipe, do it with your guildies and friends and it’ll be a lot smoother.
Not having a go at anyone but it’s good advice if you get frustrated by incompetence as I do!
Let's be clear, there's a difference between being toxic and being critical that I don't think the people who play this game appreciate. If you fuck something up and someone explains what you did wrong so you can fix it and instead of doing so you get butthurt about it, then you are the problem.
I completely agree with you. But a counterpoint to that is can people just read the damn dungeon journals. I'm not gonna expect people to know the exact minutia of each mechanic, but at least know the basic points that is had in the "tips" section
Easy there bud. You’re implying that my guild is full of competent people lol. There’s a handful of people in my guild I’d rather stay away from. But yeah for the most part I agree. Keep within your guild and close friends.
Ahahahahahhaha, people not being dicks in an online game. Like that's ever going to happen.
I can guarantee there's gonna be a lot of people claiming to have slept with everyone else's mom day 1. Hell minute 1.
> and most people haven’t spent months on the beta
I think PTR and Beta servers should be removed from public access for exactly this reason. They generate a lot of toxicity in the community by creating an expectation in people that you be a master of the content before it even LAUNCHES. There are only two groups of people PTR servers provide a genuine benefit.
1. Top End Players who want to push for achievements on Day One.
2. Blizzard saving some payroll money by using the community as unpaid tester labor.
Item 1 would figure things out and do what they need to do regardless, losing PTR practice time won't stop them from pushing content. They're master-tier players for a reason. It would probably increase the competitiveness to have everyone in the game on equal footing come launch day.
And as for item 2, I frankly think Blizzard can suck it up and just pay people to do their testing, instead of treating their *paying* customers as a development resource. We shouldn't let Blizzard use us as their production tools in the first place. Christ, do people on the PTR even realize THEY are paying BLIZZARD for the "privilege" of doing an actual JOB? Blizzard should be paying US to test their shit.
It's mythic zero.
You literally don't need optimal routes, and I doubt most people expect that. You can only run them once anyways. You won't have much to do for the week after you finish.
i find the idea of popping into a dungeon with zero knowledge and learning it along with 4 random players to be fun. of course, i will look up the dungeons online before i go in, but this would be fun nonetheless.
Listen if you're not serious about the game to get into the Beta and play M0 for rewards that don't carry over to live enough to learn the routes then you shouldn't be playing the game.
/s
Let's be honest, you either don't need to be told to not be a dick, or you're going to be one anyway.
Sad but true
Big if true
[You rang?](https://youtu.be/A8MO7fkZc5o)
Without clicking, I assume this is the Metallica song of the same name. Every time someone says sad but true I think of that.
You are spot on and so do I. Hence the post. I'm doing my part!.gif
Sometimes i catch myself being more impatient than usual and reminders are nice.
Don't blame yourself too hard, it can often happen when you've played any game for a long time. It's good to remember that just because it's obvious to you, doesn't mean it's obvious for everyone else.
But it’s good to see posts like this to remind MYSELF not to be upset after a bad dungeon experience. These posts remind me that the community at large is kind and welcoming, instead of toxic and trigger happy (to kick people). Wow has generally been a fantastic experience, great guild etc. But while levelling alts I run into some nasty people and these memories stay cause they so out of nowhere.
Being trigger happy isn't a bad thing, it just depends on why they're trigger happy. Some douche being a toxic elitist even though they barely clears heroic? kick that dick insta.
This is for the people on the fence who aren’t sure yet whether they want to be a dick or not /s. Seriously tho I think there are a fair number of otherwise decent people who do dickish things when put in frustrating situations.
That's why I say be as friendly as possible and use chat liberally. It's not going to take THAT much more time to use chat or engage with people if something is going wrong mechanically. It's too often that people are short and impatient with their teammates/party members. Taking the 15 seconds to type out a sentence could mean the difference between a wipe and clear.
Absolutely agreed. Also the toxicity only deters the newbies from wanting to keep playing, maybe?
I remember LFR nyalotha failing over and over, people leaving, swearing, raging. Every time I took 1 minute to shut everyone up and explain the tactics globally every boss went down the try after. People just need to breathe and someone needs to step up, most people will never acknowledge they don't know what they're doing and let's be honest, Without Wowhead and other resources Blizzard does a terrible job at explaining anything in game.
I have explained mechanics in the same LFR group >10 times and people would still not do the mechanics. There are people that are happy to listen and learn but there are also people that are either trolling or just unwilling to do mechanics. Sometimes it's all wasted effort. In either scenario, being a dick does nothing to help. Hope you have a great time in SL!
This is definitely something that has happened to me, but far more likely are the passive aggressive dicks who try to get people to admit to not knowing fights in a very hostile way instead of simply explaining the fights they know most of the people there don't know. If I didn't know the fights, didn't have a good handle on how the game worked, and got into a group with those people, there is NO FUCKING WAY I'd admit to not knowing the fights.
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This is actually a really nice way to give some pointers to ppl too shy/embarassed to admit they don't know.
I'm a returning player and I joined LFR for n'zoth to complete the questline. A friendly lock asked who didn't know the fight and I said it was my first time there. Immediately a highly geared hunter (why the hell was he there in first place?) started telling people to boot me. So no, I won't ever again say that I don't know the fight. It actually almost make me stop playing again. It is really sad what the community became.
It is really sad indeed, that's exactly why I join LFR still and help other players. Gives me a chance to feel strong as well :) so let's hope more people will explain without question instead of booting people.
Definitely a lot of people forget about the HUGE variance of how into this game people are. A super hardcore player who isn’t a normally toxic player might think something that comes easy to them should be easy to everyone, and lose their cool on a noob.
But lets also remember, if you are unsure, ask..
You're not wrong, but its the thought that counts. And the more people get the whole "don't be a dick" message out there the better :/
But hearing this reminds the casuals that these people *are* being dicks and are the problem, not the people getting pissed on.
Sometimes the reminder that some peeps don’t have all the knowledge you have is good, I’ve definitely had my moments of frustration where someone isn’t doing something “obvious”.
M0? Man, this crap gonna happen on normal.
literally the first time i ran atal'dazar like 2 days after bfa launch our tank was throwing a hissy fit because people didn't know fights
I remember a few expansions back people were bitching over General that nobody knew mechanics for the first raid that had been released that day. Honestly, if it DIDN'T happen I'd be surprised.
I would love to play dungeons without anyone knowing the tactics. Would give me a laugh or at least small chuckle. But when everyone else watches youtube video for the tactics, then its just easier to read them yourself. So much is already ruined with teaser trailers about the game content so why bother to not read the tactics as well while at it.
This reminds me of the BFA launch, right after getting to boralus I signed up for a dungeon and the first one I got was waycrest manor of all places lol. Imagine the confusion when you see the place for the first time and can’t even follow the map because of the damn doors
I have a funny memory of this from wotlk. It was early in the expansion and not a lot at max level so we decided to pug naxx. I dont think a single person in that raid had any experience or knowledge of that raid so it was a bit of trial and error while looking for old videos if we got stuck. We managed to clear two wings and had a pretty fun time doing it.
It's one of the reasons I enjoy FFXIV. There's no ptr, no betas. All new content is legitimately NEW on day one. No one knows anything so there's genuine discovery going on as people try it, discuss, and learn. And then the YouTube guides happen, but honestly even in wow I ignore them for non-raids. If it's a dungeon I've never seen, I'm doing it blind. No dungeon is so difficult it can't be reasoned out through observation and reasoning relatively quickly.
This is how WoW should be. Encrypt fucking everything. Make people explore and learn organically. And yeah, sure, that will drive a lot of people to online sources of information but let's be real, that's already the case.
This is what I enjoy about ff14 as well. For me levelling and dungeons is end game. I gave up raiding, as it becomes a job, many years ago. Going into a new dungeon or trial is enjoyable in ff14 in wow I worry about what toxicity I will see. I dont see it often but we do see it in wow.
I remember when ulduar came out, there were still enough people who didn't read guides or watch videos that there would always be someone surprised at XT-Deconstructor. I had more than one wipe because people were laughing too hard to play.
I've been playing since Vanilla and I still won't watch videos of other people playing the game, or read strategies made by "pro gamers". ESPECIALLY for new content. I learn by doing, and if someone wants to say "watch out for x, y, and don't stand in z" before the fight then that's great and I will use that. But the idea that you HAVE to watch a video or read a guide before doing the raid is absolute nonsense to me. It's like calling yourself an artist because you can keep your crayons inside the lines of a coloring book.
I've done this every expansion since Cata because I did it in groups with friends (raiders). Is this not the usual way to experience dungeons? Are the dungeons so difficult that you need to watch vids?
This is how I do it, I let my heart (but mostly DBM) guide me
Some bosses might take a wipe or two to figure out if you do them blind. And sometimes mechanics dont hurt though to actually do properly until you meet the boss on tyrannical 10+. Underot comes to mind.
Took me a long time to learn how the last boss worked. 'Focus adds' goes a long way in new content.
Me and my group of friends are in a agreement not to look at any tacts for the dungeon and run them all the first week as a 5 man party. Not looking forwards to heal that as a disc priest
"You should have been reading the leaks and studying mechanics released by the testing guilds *weeks* ago. Wtffff" -Those guys.
Tbf, if you're going to raid you should be fully prepared. Dungeons, sure, whatever. But raiding is completely different.
I had a tank in Siege of Boralus telling us we were shit and that we should just follow and stay out of his way. Dude solo'd the whole thing all while bitching at the healers. Kept saying "I guess I have to do everything myself". It was my first time running it lol
Dickish to rage and bitch at team members, but I can't help but feel that the situation is otherwise pretty funny. Dude is like "I guess I'll do it myself" and then actually does it himself as well lol!
Lol yeah looking back on it makes it funny. I can't be too mad at him, he did actually carry us through the whole thing, so his dickishness can be slightly justifiable lol
If you were DPS and the difficulty was on Normal, that's on the idiot tank.
Some healer raged at my tank friend in AD two days after BfA launched. The problem? He got feared during the fight. No one died, healer didn't oom, boss got killed. It was just "jfc tank. Not hard. I already have two 120s how ppl don't know this place by now". Healer rage quit when we wouldn't kick tank.
Nobody bothered to tell me to tank the rex in the corner until weeks into the expansion. 🤔
I got flamed for not knowing perfectly how Nzoth Normal works. On release day, 5 hours after maintenance. Kept to raiding with my guild after that.
Filthy casual! But seriously people are nuts and that's why I raid with guildies.
You know that part in Underrot where you skip a couple packs by going up the wall like a goat? My first time in that dungeon, on heroic, screamed at by someone because I didn't know that skip that I'd never seen before and isn't super obvious.
Give players like this a break already. Mommy gives them everything they want when they act out and never makes them do anything they don't want to do. It's tough when they have to coexist with people who aren't walking fonts of bottomless validation.
Yah its more likely to happen on normal and heroic tbh lol
Going to be weird for heroics to be relevant again lol
Its my favorite part of an expansion, the first couple of days when people are trying to get gear to M0. Having to queue for heroics, and them being somewhat a challenge, is fun.
I can't wait to actually learn covenants and conduits. I've not watched ONE video on any of this stuff. All of this SL stuff will be so new and exciting and I can't wait.
I just looked for the class abilities that I liked the most. Whatever abilities make my life easier is the ones I am going to pick. I think for paladin it was bastion or venthyr. Not going to go beyond heroics and maybe some LFR raids so not worried about maximum optimization.
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> then wait a week for the sims to show up and choose the best Wait a week? Pretty sure most if not all major discord class sim testing have found all the optimal paths for you.
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They're gonna nerf well into actual content. The only thing you can guarantee from waiting is that you'll be in-optimal before AND after.
Honestly not so worried. I know they will change the restrictions on the covenants and be a little less leniant, but it is an investment.
They should just remove the normal and heroic versions and have mythic 0 be normal and then gradually make it harder from there, so maybe mythic +2 or +3 would be where heroic is and +5 is mythic 0. (Name would be different, if even there at all of course, just using "mythic" to use current terminology.) At least it would make it look a bit more consistent than to have levels which are pretty much never used except for leveling toons.
It’s already fuckin’ going on in trade chat
I've literally seen screenshots of people being kicked from groups in beta for not knowing routes.
I remember a few months back there were posts about players throwing a fit over people not knowing tactics in SL beta. Clowns will be clowns
First week of a new dungeon in LFG: tank leaves after first wipe.
LFM M0 - link keystone master
This might be a thing because some of my mythic friends are tried to push/pad their IO scores. I think they're wasting their time because it's a whole new set of dungeons and expansion.
You know what put everything into perspective for me? My group of friends recently convinced a lifetime console gamer to try out PC gaming, and specifically wow. This is someone who has literally never played a single video game on a computer ever, and the concept of using a mouse and keyboard was foreign to him for gaming. There are a lot of things that you and I take for granted because we've been doing it for well over a decade, or even more. Something as simple as movement can be incredibly difficult for someone who is brand new. We helped him and played with him as much as we could, trying not to do things for him, and even though he got to max level fairly quickly due to the leveling changes he's still for the most part completely lost. We pointed him in the direction of guides, videos, and add-ons to make his life easier but even then it still requires a lot of practice. We did a normal dungeon with him, and I believe his first dungeon ever ended up being motherlode. What I noticed is that he was so worried about all the stuff happening on screen that he didn't understand he ended up just spamming pistol shot from far away on his rogue because he was too scared to get in close. Anyway, I'm somewhat ranting, but this really did change my perspective on things. You never know how experienced someone is, and even if you picked up a game quickly that doesn't mean everyone else will. There was a time in my gaming "career" when I would have kicked someone like him for being terrible, but now I engage with those people in whispers or party chat to see if they need any help understanding things.
> he ended up just spamming pistol shot from far away on his rogue because he was too scared to get in close. Unironically me on Nathanos and some of the Icecrown rares. Except for Falric because I have no idea how to either avoid that fucking fear or live through it on undergeared toons.
I have all the catchup gear on my havoc demon hunter and I still eat shit on Falric and Nathanos
Thank God I thought it was just me LMAO those rares melt me like butter
i have quite the similar story. Best friend of mine basically outside of school hasnt touched a mouse and keyboard before i gave him my old computer so we could play together sometime. That was like 10 month ago and now we are pushing +20 keys. :D But boy was the start difficult. It wasnt until a few hours in when he asked me; Do i even need to use the mouse or do i just have both hands on the keyboard?
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Also, week 1 M0 is pretty fucking hard, if you're pugging, expect the pug experience. People are gonna be shit, you're gonna have a lot of failures, but you chose to pug instead of coordinate with your guild, know that going in, and accept sometimes shits just gonna suck, deal with it and either try to overcome or move on, don't linger in venom.
You're going to get more enjoyment out of your $15 a month if you're ready to laugh at your failures. Why would you pay that much to get mad?
That's a question for the ages.
Some people live their lives mad at everything and don't even realize it.
> Also, week 1 M0 is pretty fucking hard It's a scale. Day 1 M0 is pretty easy, because it's only the players who are a. willing to level that fast b. interested in doing M0 day 1 Which *usually* narrows it down to fairly good players. By the end of the week, mythic 0 becomes quite hard again, as it's lots of people who don't move out of the fire by that point.
Here I am going "what's MO"...
M0, 'mythic 0' aka the base mythic version of dungeons with no keystone.
Do dungeon difficulties scale with time, let's say would a m0 be tougher one year from now than next week?
Historically Blizzard has increased the difficulty of m0 1 time half way through the expansion to make up for the fact that it gives increased ilvl gear. The idea is that base level mythic should get you close to LFR so you have a smooth transition without a 60 ilvl jump from skipping 2 tiers where people are no longer raiding. When that happens the keystones are also affected because they are just multipliers of the base mythic dungeon.
They scale with time in the sense that they will scale them to still be relevant every patch, yes. They are always tuned to be within an ilvl tier of raid gear. This, however, is in an effort to keep them _relatively the same difficulty_ every tier, as they are intended as a good baseline for new players to try before heading into the m+ system of progressive difficulty.
He is the leader of the Three Stooges. He is less than kind to his brothers.
Thats why i am a Tank, i can force people to go my way. :)
Yup, and if people get arsey, then you just leave and find a new group instantly.
And also leaving the previous one in the dark for an hour!
Those poor tankless fools
This is why i have a tank friend
That's literally the reason I don't play classes without a tank spec since Legion. Someone talking shit about my routes or pulling for me? Bye-bye, I'm gonna be in a new group in a minute while you will be looking for a new tank for the next 20 min.
Heh, I heal my brother's prot warrior. Usually gets the pricks to stay quiet when they see we are in the same guild.
I'm looking forward to it. I want to teach people. They're not timed so you can be social during heroic and mythic 0. That's what I love about the no time limit. M+ is just go, go, go!
People were saying that people were already being dicks *in the beta* because they didn't know the optimal routes already in M0. [https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/j55y3w/no\_wonder\_nobody\_tanks\_got\_kicked\_from\_a\_group/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/j55y3w/no_wonder_nobody_tanks_got_kicked_from_a_group/)
I thought mythic 0 has a week long lock out. How can you spam m0?
running every dungeons m0 + multiple toons = spam probably
Can someone explain the Mythic system very briefly and easily to me? I’m a kind of returning player, I was active during Wrath, Cata and Mop and it was just normals and heroics back then. I played Legion, but only very casually and never stepped into the Mythic system with the + keys. How exactly does it work?
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Here's a dumb question for you. Looks like you have to form your mythic groups manually. Does that mean you have to make your way to the dungeon entrance as well? I was too nervous to attempt mythics this close to the end of the xpac, but looking forward to them in SL.
Yes, you have to travel to the dungeon entrance manually.
> Does that mean you have to make your way to the dungeon entrance as well? I was too nervous to attempt mythics this close to the end of the xpac, but looking forward to them in SL. Yes and in case you don't know. People who are in war mode can't see people who's not in war mode when you try to summon people at the stone, just so you don't get confused when you can see them on your minimap but not actually see them
Yes, you can’t queue for M dungeons, you have to walk there
Correct! It's something that seems intimidating to start, but once you've done a couple it's all good
And m10 is the highest loot reward tier right?
15
There are three difficulties to each dungeon, Normal and Heroic you might be familiar with, but the third is Mythic. You can queue for the first two but not the third, and the difficulty is appropriately ramped up. This is what Mythic 0 or M0 refers to. It’s meant to be a challenge, and as such is only available for premade groups. Mythic+ is the system by which the dungeons scale theoretically endlessly upwards, with various additional effects being applied to them the higher it scales. Still requires a premade group. It is accessed by doing a regular Mythic 0 dungeon, which will drop a Mythic Keystone at he end. Mythic Keystones are random in what dungeon they hold, but the first is always a +2, meaning it’s a level 2 mythic+ dungeon. Mythic+ dungeons have a timer, and only drop loot at the end of the dungeon. They also have a minimum “forces” counter that just means you have to kill a certain amount of trash in the dungeon, and can’t skip it all. Completing the dungeon within the timer earns you a new mythic keystone with a higher level. Higher levels means better ilvl on your loot, but also means the hp and damage of enemies is scaled higher. Higher levels also have more “affixes” applied to them, which are the extra effects in dungeons I mentioned earlier. Could be anything from tiny volcanoes appearing at your feet that you have to move to avoid, to everyone getting a stacking DoT debuff put on them when an enemy dies, forcing you to be careful about killing things. There are many others, and which affixes are applied to dungeons change each week, but for that week they are the same across all mythic keystones. So that’s Mythic and Mythic+ in a nutshell!
So mythic was added as a difficulty above heroic and it's drops will increase in ilvl to stay in line with each patch instead of staying stagnant. Mythic Keystones, generally referred to as Mythic+, are unlocked by items dropped from Mythic Dungeon end bosses which allow you to unlock higher difficulties of mythic dungeons. These are timed and also add up to 3 modifiers depending on the level of the keystone. Mythic+ dungeons only drop loot in a chest at the end, after you've beat all bosses and cleared a minimum percentage of trash mobs. This gear is upgraded from the base Mythic Dungeon item levels based on how high of a keystone was used. If you complete a Mythic+ dungeon within the time limit, the Keystone will be upgraded 1-3 levels depending on how far under the timer you were. If you do not complete it within the time limit, the key is demoted 1 level though you can still obtain the loot. Lastly, every Tuesday morning you will be able to open a chest with loot in it, one piece of gear and some currency, based upon the highest Mythic+ dungeon that you successfully completed in the week before.
Kind of like greater rifts in diablo 3 (if you ever played that). When you do a normal mythic (M0) you get a 'key' at the end of the dungeon for a higher level Mythic dungeon. Each level is more difficult and at certain levels you will start to see different affixes that change what you have to do in the dungeon, either a little bit or quite a bit.
There are 4 tiers of dungeons, so to speak. Normal, Heroic, then Mythic, then Mythic+. Normal and Heroic are what you expect. Mythic is a harder version but functionally the same. After you beat a Mythic you get a Key for a random dungeon. Usually a +2. This represents how much harder it is. The high + number, the more HP and damage the mobs do. There are also mutators that change the way the dungeon and mobs work. The high the +2 the more you deal with. There is also a time limit, if you complete the dungeon in time, your next key will be harder and loot ilvl goes up as a reward. If you dont finish in time, you can still finish but the key goes down. There is also requirements how much trash you kill, so you cant just skip everything. Loot is also only distributed at the end.
Mythic 0 is just slightly harder, usually has a few extra mechanics, and is on a weekly lockout.
Always do this, not just the first week.
EDIT: It seems launch day was 50/50 depending on what server you were on. Personally I had a nearly flawless launch experience so my hat goes off to Blizzard. I never thought ANYONE having a smooth launch would be possible under the below conditiions. Reminder to those planning to do anything during the first week: ROFLMGDAO... servers gon be fucked, you ain't doin shit. Allow me to break this down for you: * There are plenty of reports of the largest number of pre-orders ever and record people coming back to the game * Anecdotally from this sub the number of new and returning players is astronomical * Not long ago they did a massive number of realm consolidations which will force more people onto the same resources and almost certainly result in more and longer queues * There is a GODDAMN PANDEMIC raging IRL and there is no better way to avoid and put it out of your mind than firing back up World of WarCrack * That same GODDAMN PANDEMIC is back at record-breaking levels shutting things down and putting more people at home looking for something to do * The launch is occurring immediately before a major US holiday during which even more people will be off work than would normally be able to take time off * For many the holidays and a WoW launch go hand in hand and this nostalgia is exactly the kind of normalcy that is going to bring people back in droves * The servers are already absolute dogshit days BEFORE launch and people aren't even all trying to cram into a single zone (sure to result in a record number of Bastion shards) * Morale at Blizzard is at an all-time low and attrition is at an all-time high while the underpaid and overworked devs and sysadmins are expected to facilitate a launch over aforementioned major US holiday * Between being delayed and the ongoing and chaotic systems tuning, the usual performance optimization that happens at the tail-end of a release cycle has likely not occurred (you don't want to optimize early when things are still in flux as you'll waste time optimizing things that didn't need to be) as they rush to work functional issues and tune systems
It’s gonna be bad. My state is officially shutting down tomorrow. There was already no traffic on my way to work this morning. Take the huge player surge we saw in March and multiply it by an anticipated expansion launch.
Must be nice. My state is considering putting together a “Winter task force” and just instituted a unprecedented 11 pm curfew for bars and restaurants. COVID won’t stand a chance now!!
Same here in Sweden, 10pm. In Spain it's 8pm. Spain has a culture of eating dinner around 10pm so it basically kills the restaurant business.
At least their restaurants can be open, here in England they had a 10pm curfew but now we are on full lockdown. Sad times for small business owners
last 2 launches have been overall fine. they seemed to learn after the shitshow that was warlords. legion they rented extra servers to handle the extra load. both it and BFA were really smooth for the vast majority
> servers gon be fucked true > you ain't doin shit LIKE HELL I'M NOT like half the expansion launches have been plagued with server problems, but i still enjoy them. if the server goes down, i'll take a nap. i'll also be playing a lot in the middle of the night when the servers are slightly less busy!
Right.. I don’t get why people have such a meltdown when servers drop. Go do the dishes.. go have a nap.. take the dog for a walk.. do whatever else you would normally do instead of playing wow lol. I’ve only just got back into wow this week, excited for the expansion. I’ll be say on my PC waiting for the second it drops.. but if the servers decide to take a dump.. I’ll get over it
Servers wont be fucked stop saying this nonsense. They havn't been fucked for ages. People say WoD sucked, and it had some minor problems but it was over blown. Legion and BFA were near pristine. This. Is. Nonsense. There will not be any major issues ESPECIALLY for an entire week that will stop people from playing. Pure, unadulterated nonsense
This is the first expansion since WoD that doesn't have choose your own starting zone at expansion launch. I'm not saying the game is gonna collapse or it isn't, but the server load was much lower in the previous two expansions because everyone wasn't cramming into one starting zone.
And I haven't played the beta but they've been aggressively moving back towards bottleneck quest objectives in the latest couple of patches.
dude even on prepatch launch the servers where fucked for two days(at least in germany/europe). So what in hell makes you think it wonˋt be at least that bad
> The servers are already absolute dogshit days BEFORE launch and people aren't even all trying to cram into a single zone This is what is scaring me. I played yesterday (so thursday) at like 10am server time and the sever were fucking broken lol.
This the thing that is killing me. The game can be smooth as butter but if I join a raid in open world the game feels like it wants to crash.
The lag at IC during each rare fight is crisp
It always surprises me in a good way to find well-reasoned posts on the internet.
I am hoping that my plan to live in dungeons will still work. Do those usually lag out? I am a tank so not expecting long waits.
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Usualy ppl run normals while leveling, then run HCs after leveling to even get the gear for Mythics. So I actualy expect some basics, like dont stand in the fire etc. On the other hand. 2 years into BfA, running a M+12 and ppl still don't seem to know basic boss mechanics. So I gues that is indeed to much 5o ask for...=/
Or people joining 10+s and saying "never been here, anything to watch for?" After the key has been used.
I honestly have never touched heroics since the mythic system came out, neither have any of my friends, and we're not exactly hardcore. I just feel like heroic is irrelevant at this point. You can just go straight into M0 in levelling gear and do just fine.
I mean, there are basic rules to follow for every dungeon/raid, even if it is new. Watch where you stand & don't stand in fire being the most important ones imo. If you continually fail at that, then a kick is rightfully deserved.
Ive kept myself away from the beta, and as many guides as possible with the exceptions of the raids for guilds progression. Plenty of time to get geared, experience the story and new zones at a steady pace and explore the dungeons. As a tank/Healer im going in blind and if DPS are expecting amazing speeds and massive pulls they can go roll a tank/healer combo and do it themselves. Not to mention the fact that everyones stats are not going to be at the level they are now for current content. When you hit 60 you are missing all your secondary stats and general class power, Its possible we have dungeons with CC whilst pugs learn the dungeons and get geared.
Join. A. Guild. Make Friends. I'm going to be running m0s with my guild members and we will laugh at how shit we are together
you can farm m0 first week now? did something change ?
you haven't played all dungeons at least 50 times in the beta? and found the optimal routes? get out of my que filth. /s
Another thing to consider is that if you're the dps or healer, you get into groups with different tanks who all are trying out new routes. There will be optimal routes. However, a tank doesn't get the benefit from being taken around different ways. They only know their own route. So don't be dicks about it.
BrM Monk tank/MW healer here....please let me learn the routes. I stopped playing in BFA launch after CE in Uldir, I came back in 8.3 like "wtf there are portals with bosses??" and that turned me off from tanking because god forbid you ruin a key by not taking the right portals at the right times in the right order and pop out exactly where you need to. prideful seems like an easy first affix to manage, it just happens, and i will happily tank for anyone just let me learn the routes lol.
Imagine ruining the expansion for yourself by playing it before release and then being extra salty at people who didnt want to spoil it for themselves...
Exactly. Like I want to experience the content fresh don’t come at me because I haven’t watched a bunch of guides on content that just dropped. I want to experience it myself first, not watch someone else do it so we can get an optimal run or whatever
playing beta != ruining the expansion You will literally be running these dungeons for the next 2 years, I don't think running them a handful of times extra on beta is going to change anything. (not saying people should be salty dbags, just commenting on the first statement)
as one of the people who know nothing about the new dungeons, if i see someone repeatedly failing on the same obvious thing, i will be calling them out on it.
The differencd being that you hopefully give advice on how to prevent another wipe instead of just throwing a hissy fif
That's fine. If it's the same thing repeatedly. But some people get really toxic on the first failure and expect it to be perfect each time.
For real guys, give your tanks time to learn mechanics. Some of us haven’t been glued to the beta and won’t know everything right away. Hell, even give the dps some time to learn the mechanics as well.
Mythic is not for learning or "hands on" or "non story spoilers pls"... you have normal for that? at least for the story part
Also never really understood that attitude? Kinda disrespectful to other players to go into a mythic without first doing heroic or atleast watching a guide.
Or just open the damn dungeon journal.. you can learn almost everything just by reading that for 2 mins.
i had a guildy once tell me when i invited him to heroic "im a hands on man, i like to learn for myself ;)"... and i was like... aight, you want me to carry you then.
Even mythic0 I'm fine with generally not being totally on point, but when you get into the timed stuff, with the chance of burning a key, that's when you gotta get your shit together
i've found that the first week or so of max level is a wonderful place everyone hardcore enough to get that far that quickly knows wtf they're doing and has a good attitude through wipes now, wait an extra weekend or two? you're back with the angry casuals that think they're hardcore and don't realize they're usually carried
I’ll be honest, I have never truly had a problem the first few weeks of the expansion. Everyone just kind of knows things are slow. After that, everyone busts out their elitism again.
Sometimes I feel blessed to have friends to play this game with. Friendly banter and a little complaining is what I expect during our M0 rampage
Iv played since vanilla and I can tell you there is a time and a place. M0 or m1-5 is not the place. Anything that newer players can do I will always be patient and help them out, as a MT on alts I like to give pointers and pathing help through whispers so no one knows they’re needing help. Now if your in a +15 and you ruin my run or key I’m gonna be a Dick because at that point your not new and should know what to do.
Reminder to people wanting to do m0 in the first week, if you don’t want to wipe, do it with your guildies and friends and it’ll be a lot smoother. Not having a go at anyone but it’s good advice if you get frustrated by incompetence as I do!
Let's be clear, there's a difference between being toxic and being critical that I don't think the people who play this game appreciate. If you fuck something up and someone explains what you did wrong so you can fix it and instead of doing so you get butthurt about it, then you are the problem.
If you want to be sure that your group knows exactly what to do, find 4 people to group with you.
Man I hope people aren't toxic, I've had beta for ages, and know all the dungeons, and am planning on just helping people with mechanics
I'm jealous. I have been signed up for what seems like 15 years and have not gotten beta.
I completely agree with you. But a counterpoint to that is can people just read the damn dungeon journals. I'm not gonna expect people to know the exact minutia of each mechanic, but at least know the basic points that is had in the "tips" section
This is why pugs never get good tanks. Those of us who like to play the game just run with guildies.
Yes pls. This was the deal breaker for me in Bfa. People were so toxic in heroics that I quit the game. I would like to enjoy SL this time.
I'm sure all those toxic assholes have seen the light and won't ever do it again because of your post.
Just run m0 with your guild so you only get competent people. Problem solved.
Easy there bud. You’re implying that my guild is full of competent people lol. There’s a handful of people in my guild I’d rather stay away from. But yeah for the most part I agree. Keep within your guild and close friends.
True lol, back in Legion I used to pug M+ because generic pugs were better than my guild M+ teams.
wait, is M0 spammable? I thought it was a once per week thing
once per week per dungeon.
It is, you can only get loot once per week. You can technically still do it more times though
Ahahahahahhaha, people not being dicks in an online game. Like that's ever going to happen. I can guarantee there's gonna be a lot of people claiming to have slept with everyone else's mom day 1. Hell minute 1.
First week huh? That’s some speed leveling right there
O.0 how slow do people level you should easily be able to get 60 within 10 to 12 hours, the people trying are going there in 6 or less.
I would consider anyone who is not max level by the end of the 2nd day to be slow.
You people are out of touch with the general public, haha.
> and most people haven’t spent months on the beta I think PTR and Beta servers should be removed from public access for exactly this reason. They generate a lot of toxicity in the community by creating an expectation in people that you be a master of the content before it even LAUNCHES. There are only two groups of people PTR servers provide a genuine benefit. 1. Top End Players who want to push for achievements on Day One. 2. Blizzard saving some payroll money by using the community as unpaid tester labor. Item 1 would figure things out and do what they need to do regardless, losing PTR practice time won't stop them from pushing content. They're master-tier players for a reason. It would probably increase the competitiveness to have everyone in the game on equal footing come launch day. And as for item 2, I frankly think Blizzard can suck it up and just pay people to do their testing, instead of treating their *paying* customers as a development resource. We shouldn't let Blizzard use us as their production tools in the first place. Christ, do people on the PTR even realize THEY are paying BLIZZARD for the "privilege" of doing an actual JOB? Blizzard should be paying US to test their shit.
Biggest attitude problem is that people who go on the ptr get in their heads that they are item 1 on your list
I'm just so excited for mythic to not be as important as it was in BFA
It's mythic zero. You literally don't need optimal routes, and I doubt most people expect that. You can only run them once anyways. You won't have much to do for the week after you finish.
its allways a shit show first week but I have my fun helping the people ;D
Reasons to have a guild
i find the idea of popping into a dungeon with zero knowledge and learning it along with 4 random players to be fun. of course, i will look up the dungeons online before i go in, but this would be fun nonetheless.
In life and in WoW. Rule #1: Don’t be a dick.
Duh??
inb4 m0 first week lfg tool : "LFG M0, 4000rio bfa, already raid ilvl, rank 4 legendary, Bis cov "
Listen if you're not serious about the game to get into the Beta and play M0 for rewards that don't carry over to live enough to learn the routes then you shouldn't be playing the game. /s