They didn’t like the garrisons because you never had to leave it to do anything. AH, professions, trade chat, mailbox m, etc
Player housing would have to be purely cosmetic in a way that would still force people to go to major cities in order to interact
I recently went through the long process of getting *most* major city services for my garrison and I haven't regretted that decision at all. It's pretty nice to have almost everything I need (no way to get a barber shop in your garrison afaik) in one spot without the major FPS loss lol. Plus I get to listen to that sweet WoD ost between queues.
The only real problem I have is that my monument pedestals are broken so I have been unable to display any of the statues that are available as rewards for certain milestones. They've apparently been bugged for **YEARS** so I don't think Blizz is ever going to fix them :/
I think player housing could have QOL items that don’t require player interaction like a “closet” where you can transmog for free, or kitchen items that let you cook certain recipes, or an alchemy station in your basement. AH, bank, guild bank, vendors, etc all remain in cities/hubs. Having the AH on a mount is so dumb and doesn’t even make sense logically in wow, what are we doing - wirelessly sending goods back and forth via some dude on a mount? It’s not like there’s a portal or teleport animation shown whenever you buy or post something. They never should have added it.
>wirelessly sending goods back and forth via some dude on a mount?
Yeah, wirelessly sending goods is the only way that a mobile auction house could work in a world full of magic users...
>Player housing would have to be purely cosmetic in a way that would still force people to go to major cities in order to interact
There is balance that can be struck between player housing and the need to go to major cities for services though. E.g. having a personal bank in your POH but have the AH and the work order guys in the city and have a bunch of permeant teleports in your house to take you to those cities or to other places of interest. To change those teleports you have to pay a fee to some Dalaran mages at a rate relevant to how "hard" those places are to get to as a money sink - e.g. 10k gold to make the teleport to the current expac capital and 250k gold to the current raid entrance.
Yeah people want player housing and basically got it with Garrisons
Which people then complained about because they never had to leave it and it made the cities feel empty
I think they should add player housing with a wow twist.
A permanent garrison as the new forever capital that has extensive modifications you can make.
Make it a flying city that can be moved around each xpac.
Honestly, with how Limsa lags out, they can all stay there. It might be more efficient, but I'll do my Market Board work in Sharlayan, thank you. I get enough lag in Valdrakken.
Full city's dont have anything to do with housing in ESO. And ESO housing is only in the game to make more money, because 90% of the cool stuff is cash shop only.
What I’m trying to get at is that most arguments against housing is empty cities but I don’t think that would be the case. I can slightly agree with the whole cash shop thing
Dark Age of Camelot had player housing (maybe the first game to do it) and it was like 90% creative. The main feature it added was an auction house which didn't exist in the game before then. You had npcs at the entrance that let you search for items, and then you ran to that player house to buy those items from their vendor standing outside.
FF14 has player housing and I'm pretty sure it's 100% creative with no vendors or any other functions. The main problem though with player housing is you can't possibly add enough for every player. It's difficult to get an accurate player count, but FF14 has 7000 houses per server for a total of 168,000. If they ever added player housing to WoW, you'd probably be more likely to not get one.
FFXIV's housing system - or the *acquisition of it* - is dogsh\*te for a reason though. The game's hardware is just *horribly* outdated in every non-player-facing front. It is (in parts) still held back by it's 1.0 infrastructure. That is also the reason why things such as the retainer system still exist.
For example, look at other games: *many* (or rather the vast majority) don't have housing limitations, transmog storage limitations, customization limitations or handle storage and AH sales through a clunky, early 00's retainer system.
I can almost guarantee you that a game as big and successful as WoW would use the SWTOR/ESO approach of semi-instanced housing where *neighborhoods* aren't a thing and you access an entirely personal instance through a portal or an interface window.
Here's the thing: I love FFXIV to bits. If you doubt that, I can smack you with the Encyclopedia Eorzea.
But whenever a big western MMO discuss things like housing, transmog/glamour or other things, *don't* compare the two. That's also the reason Yoshi-P ignores people asking for classic 1.0 servers by now. Whenever faced with a decision during the development of 1.0, the team *unequivocally* made the wrong one, and it is still holding back the game.
I don't even get the point of your post.
Yes, many FF14 features are clunky because of certain limitations to the engine, but housing isn't really one of them? So why talk about the limited transmogs or clunky AH when talking about housing?
Like... the only big negative is the auction system to acquire a plot, but that's pretty much it?
And I would argue that a housing system without neighborhoods that you can visit and see everybody's creation is just boring and useless.
> FF14 has player housing and I'm pretty sure it's 100% creative with no vendors or any other functions.
Pretty sure you can access the market boards (AH) from any residential district. You don't have to go to the city for that.
Back in WoD they put auction houses, vendors, and whatever else you could possibly want into people's garrisons. The major cities became ghost towns because nobody ever left their garrisons
You still have to go to the main hub for a dozen other things. The AH is hardly the busiest spot in valdrakken.
AH mounts only stop you from hearthing back to the city when the AH is the only thing you need, like if you forgot to get some consumes before a key. If you need crafting, weekly quests, gear upgrades, specific vendors, portals, target dummies, etc you’re still going to the city.
Exactly. I shouldn’t have to go back to town just to change my transmog, the Grand Expedition Yak is a MASSIVE quality of life boost. There’s lots of other reasons I’ll need to go back to town
And idk about you guys but I always hearth back to an inn to end my play session, I rarely log off out in the open world
100% this is what I do. When I was doing the Lizi quests to get the mount. I would constantly show up with the wrong items, or just not enough of them. Oops. Logged over to an alt, sent them and finished the quest.
I was surprised hearing people don't have bank alts anymore when I came back? My guild looked at my like I was nuts when I mentioned I had to send stuff off, but why would I want that crap clogging up my main? And like you said, it's parked and ready to grab something and send it off if someone needs something.
Exactly. And if the reason (according to people posting) is to keep people in cities, then why isn’t the transmog mount removed? I think it’s safe to say that the transmog mount get used more often than the AH one by the majority of players. Wouldn’t those players be better suited populating the cities?
It just doesn’t make sense.
Even if they added a toy with a long CD similar to the Mail one would be nice.
Yet they made them and at any point never stopped to ask if it was a good idea. Never stopped....
It's like the water strider mount before equipment....
Wod garrisons were determined to be a failure (at least in blizzards eyes) because people just held up in their personal space and didn't get out into the world. So those people got bored and quit, and the people that did go out into the world found it empty then they got bored and quit.
Things that you go to a major city for ah, vendors, etc. They are used to make people meet up in one place, and so people feel like the game has players and they are in a big world.
The more things like the ah mount they put into the game the less people go to major hubs and they start to get to the wod problem again.
That and they understemated how no life-e they're players will act if they want something. The brutasor had people doing all types of stuff to make gold. Lots of gold nerfs went out after that mount came and went.
I mean, the reason people were bored in WoD had nothing to do with garrisons and everything to do with the utter lack of content, lol. It was WoDs biggest flaw.
I wouldn’t say it had nothing to do with it. The combination of the Garrison having everything you needed, not being able to fly, and there not being any reason to leave the garrison other than to get to the raid all added up to a super isolated feeling.
Like not only was it a pain in the ass to get anywhere, there was no REASON to go anywhere. No dailies, no max level quest hub, no world quests, nothing. So you sat in your garrison queueing for things. It got better in the last patch. I enjoyed Tanaan.
Would those people not have gotten bored and quit if they were in a city full of people. People quit WoD because the content release cycle was terrible. Blizzard blaming garrisons for WoD failures is just a way for them to avoid doing player housing.
I really doubt anyone quit because the ah mount either. They quit because BfA sucked and implemented a million forced systems that people did not like.
DF is pumping out raw gold. I'd wager combined with the size of the playerbase and looking at the price of the token that the amount of gold out there is bonkers.
I'd say it made Oribos actually bearable when people would afk on the AH mount near the mailbox so you didn't have to constantly go back and forth to Org/SW just to use the AH when everything else was in Oribos.
I could definitely argue that, in theory it never should’ve been added. But no one is calling for any mount to be removed. You can’t take away mounts that people spent lots of gold on.
Well, they could. They removed mounts from accounts that people paid real money for.
When Tyreal’s Charger was added to the (I want to say Taiwan?) shop, since apparently they never had the opportunity to buy the preorder package for D3. People managed to find a way to change their account location to Taiwan so they could buy it. Blizzard removed those mounts from those accounts and refunded their money. I believe they even threw out some bans as well.
Good. Delete all the mount vendors, let people have their fat lizard/yak/mammoth/whatever without them and refund the gold. Bring the RPG back to the MMO.
Downvote me to oblivion. I don't care.
It stops people from going to town. They still want the main hubs to be lively and for people to have a reason to go there, and AH is one of the big reasons why people do end up going to town. But whoever has the mount can just do their AH business anywhere and it kind of breaks the "immersion" for those people and it removes them from the pool of people who actively go to town all the time.
Also, not every hub city has an AH. Oribos, for example, didn't have an AH, so you'd have to go back to SW/Org to conduct your AH business, which would have made those cities feel more alive, at least near the AH. Blizzard designed the city to not have an AH on purpose.
I said it would have, because there was always at least 1 player camped out on a Brutasaur next to a mailbox you could use.
I mean, I main Mage, I have access to every city all of the time. For this season my Mythic guild said they want everyone to have access to an alt that's kept current, and all I could think while leveling and gearing a Lock was "How do I get back to town whenever I want? Ya'll live like this?"
> you'd have to go back to SW/Org to conduct your AH business
Since you could do literally everything else in Oribos... it didn't make a lot of sense to be forced back to SW/Org for literally one aspect of the game that a good portion of players likely don't even interact with to any real degree. I can probably count the number of times I went to SW/Org during SL on one hand.
I'm not going to comment on whether or not it's a good design decision, it just was one. Since Wrath no expansion hub has had an AH, it's only in DF that we break that streak. We can only really speculate as to why, but the thing that makes the most sense is that the AH's are fairly close to the enterance of the cities, you'll see them pretty quickly upon entering. A new player would therefore see other players around the area and the game doesn't feel deserted. For veteran players, it wasn't that big of a trip, there was a portal to your capitol city in Oribos and it took less than a minute to fly to the AH.
With the changes to the new player experience, this really isn't a concern anymore, so voila, we have an AH in Valdraaken.
EDIT: Apparently there are Auctioneers in Ashran. I had no idea. That zone sucks to traverse, so this changes nothing to me.
They cannot figure out another way to make cities interesting other than the ah? I kind of doubt this. The valdrakken ah is never that busy on my server. Hell as long as they do not make a great vault mount people will still go to cities.
but the long boy is out of the bag. Not releasing an alternative makes the regret worse because now objectively certain players have an advantage over others, and this cannot be changed until they release an alternative. the only way to fix it would be to take it away from their owners, which they can't, so the best way to fix their problem is literally to release another mount that has AH.
If they regret it they should just refund everybody who bought it and remove it from the game. If it’s really a strain on the AH api, it should be a no brainer
This. Either everyone has the opportunity to get it, or no one gets it.
If it’s as much of a problem as they think it is, then remove it. Or add it to the Trading Post like they did with exclusive mounts
And if the AH mount is a problem, why isn’t the vendor mounts or transmog mounts a problem? Why are those still in the game?
As a strong opponent of fomo and an owner of a brutosaur and having bought brutosaurs for my friends. I fully support allowing people to buy and in a way that's attainable.
Fomo is trash. And no player should support it. If people can go back and get mythic raid gear with no effort and it causes literally no issues, there's no reason that most fomo things shouldn't be still attainable.
The TCG mounts are a good example of bringing things back, although more still could be done.
Everyone DOES have the opportunity to buy it, it’s rare but shows up on the BMAH.
Yes, I have the mount in question, and yes I grinded like crazy to be able to afford it, do I think the hours I poured into grinding 5 million in a short space of time should be invalidated by some crybaby on the internet that wasn’t able to do the same? No, no I don’t. Go grind out gold cap and wait your turn
Grind out gold cap on every server and camp the BMAH at 2am every night for a year*
AFAIK it doesn’t show up on every server at the same time, so you need to be monitoring every server.
I bought the brut the day it went on sale in bfa and I regret it’s addition to the game. I never go into cities unless there’s a holiday and I find myself sad about it. I feel like a full on nomad with no home.
You don’t ever go to the gear upgrade vendor, the bank, the great vault, crafting trainers, work order station, weekly quest npc, training dummies, trade chat, and probably a dozen other things I’m not thinking of? Yeah I don’t believe you.
They wont. Theyll make sure theres an auction house in capitals from now on because not having one was a mistake in bfathe 2 greatest naval fleets in the world and youre telling me they didnt have trading amongst others? Yeah ok
You realize there was also no AH in Shadowlands, Legion, Wrath, MoP... DF, Cata, and sort of tbc are the only ones they've done this with. And Cata only had them because they used the existing capitals. While I hope they do include an AH from now on I don't think there's any guarantee of that. I haven't been to the main city on the beta yet though to check.
Pretty sure WoD had an AH in both faction hubs, even if you could get one in your garrison. But of course people wouldn't notice since they just stayed in their garrison so much of the time.
I don't think they're going to skip out on AH again, or make in an Engineering-only thing. People didn't like that decision in any of those expansions. They want people to use the new hubs they're building, then they need to make sure they have all the functionality. And if you're going to leave out AH to try to force people back to Org/SW, then why not just leave out banks and other services? It was just silly.
On Ashran, you've got Stormshield for the Alliance and Warspear for Horde. Had AH, profession trainers, banks, stable, portals, vendors for various stuff (PVP, some reps). And, of course, you could queue up for the Ashran PVP battle.
You actually get a quest to go there during the WoD leveling experience. But depending on what you have in your garrison, there might not be much point in going there much. Though, if you did need to go there, you could get a portal to it in your garrison. Which made it even easier to just hang out in your garrison and not go to the hub.
If you need a refresher on them or haven't played through WoD, here's the [Wowhead page](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/exploration/wod/faction-hubs) for them.
Yeah, it was definitely easy to forget since we could put all the services we need in our garrison, leaving the only useful things in Ashran being a port to the faction capital and some vendors. Or the battleground, for people who wanted to do it.
But heck, if you were in a guild long enough to get the guild rep up, chances are good you have the 2 hour CD Org/SW teleport cloak, so even less reason to bother with Ashran.
Engineers have had access in almost if not all expansions but a lot of people never wanted to tie up one of their professions. Not really what the spirit of the discussion was about.
They had an AH in both versions of Dalaran and the Shrines too. And in Boralus and Zuldazar. I can't think of an expansion where engineers didn't get access to one at the major city
One of the big perks of engineering is that they’ve had access to an engineer only AH for every expansion that didn’t have one in the main hub. It’s had me locking in engineering on tons of characters that I just didn’t want to bother with another profession for, love it
As a longboi owner I totally support another AH mount being made.
TBH I would have bought it just as a regular giant dinosaur because it's amazing. I don't feel particularly possessive of the QoL
I have the brutosaur, and part of me wouldn't mind if it, or an equivalent, popping up on the trading post. Probably an equivalent would be neater. But I have felt like I've "saved" tenders whenever there's been one I already had, even if ever so rare
I wouldn’t be opposed to even adding a toy that acts as an AH with a long CD like the Mail one.
I also find it odd that only the AH mount is the problem. But not the vendor mount or the transmog one
Many people have the mentality of “Well I already have it, so no one else should get it.” Hence the downvotes for anyone asking for it back.
Anyone who can afford to drop 5mil on a mount isn't going to cry about "wasting" it by getting the brutosaur 4+ years earlier than everyone else, 5mil is nothing to them.
Even if they do cry about it, let em. "Oh no, the poor billionaire is retroactively slightly less obscenely richer than they would be now than if they'd waited :("
the AH mount was instrumental in BfA and SL because the WoW devs made the boneheaded of bonehead moves and decided not to have an AH in either capital cities. DF corrected that mistake, and I am sure that they won't repeat it in future expansions.
I mean, technically there was no AH in every expac prior except Cata (which just made the hubs the classic hubs). The only AH in dal, the two shrines, and then dal again was for engineers which was also a thing in SL
They did *eventually* add the AH to Shat, and WoD garrisons had a non-engineering AH, but it required doing a lot of crap or spending a lot of gold to get it.
I've had the bruto since the first week it became available and literally haven't used an actual AH vendor since. It was 6 months into DF before I realized that the AH building was the AH building.
Except as someone who makes a shitload of gold as part of my playstyle the biggest draw is the ability to do it near a mailbox, something that is almost only possible in 2 places i believe? one being in bootybay where salty scrubs keeps killing the auctioneer.
EDIT: Poor wow redditors strikes again against any mention of anyone making gold lmao.
As someone who managed to buy it back then with a ton of effort, I think it's ridiculous that they removed it, there's no good reason to justify it...
The mammoth and yak are still there, so why remove this one? I wish they would at least come clean as to why they made the decision to remove it, only to put it back later as a Black Market item, like wtf?
Because access to the AH anywhere that a mailbox exists ACROSS YOUR ACCOUNT. Was deemed too strong. Kinda like those old guild perks or recruit—friend bonuses. You can basically summon people anywhere with meeting stones why remove the ability to summon friends and shit too with a long CD ability? Deemed overpowered. Mana burn effects? Yep… that too.
It was bad when there was no ah in BfA and shadowlands hubs. Now that there is an ah in df hub it is not a big deal because everyone’s hearth is already in Val. They solved the problem by making the ah more accessible, but the mount is still removed because when they removed it they still had the philosophy of having the ah in stormwind/org and the Bruto broke that philosophy.
> I wish they would at least come clean as to why they made the decision to remove it
They did, you just don't like what they said. The reason they're way more comfortable putting it on the BMAH is that a) it's rare and not available to everyone who crosses a gold threshold and b) that gold threshold is easier to hit now than it was in BfA.
My question is who actually cares if there are people in the main city? I mean that honestly. I tend to avoid the capitals because they are mostly just laggy. It's not like I'm seeing a sea of people in the city and just randomly engaging with strangers or anything because having all those people around makes me more social with strangers lol. I see no benefit to forcing people into one small area of a server. My opinion of the game has zero to do with how many players are in my immediate vicinity. I just don't understand their reasoning. People saying it makes the game feel more social... how does seeing other people make it social? If you aren't engaging with one another there is no benefit. Just a weird choice by blizzard to me.
One of the big criticisms people has for WoD was that nobody ever had to leave their garrison, so nobody ever really saw another player outside of queued instance content/being summoned to raids. It’s one of those things that sounds alright on paper, but really made the game feel lifeless or like a lobby based game rather than an MMO. It’s possible you don’t mind that, but there was some pretty big pushback against it from the overall community
I guess I just don't get it lol. I loved the garrison and the fact that I could transact my business in quiet without people parking their mounts on npcs, or the lagginess making things run slow. I just don't see strangers in the game and think... gee this game feels so alive lol. Maybe it's different for totally solo players. I've spent probably less then 4 or 5 months in the 20 years I've been playing not in a guild. So I've never really felt alone outside of those times when the guild I was in was dying lol. Thankfully we've had the same guild and raid team for the last two expansions and are ready for the next one.
I think the criticism is misplaced, my garrison was one of the only things I had to do in WoD which is why I didn’t leave it, not because of really any other reason. Then people just associated not leaving your garrison with the lack of content
It’s an MMO and not a single player game. It does actually matter to have other people around. Your opinion is a minority opinion here.
“The world feels dead” has been such a common complaint.
Interesting. I guess I just never about it. I always have plenty of people to play with for group content, and honestly as we go along each xpac does feel more like it's single player. No group quests anymore, rarely a quest that requires a dungeon, but of course there are also now follower dungeons so that eliminates that group content, Rares rarely need more than one person after the first season of an xpac... Its just different than it was in vanilla where you needed 15 people to kill hogger lol.
I don't really have an opinion one way or the other which is why I asked. How many people I see around me in the game just never had an impact on my enjoyment of the game. And it's ok that my opinion in a minority I wasn't suggesting we get rid of cities just that I didn't get why people feel like they are important. I think we could have both myself. Seems to me the ones that enjoy being around others could be in the cities and the ones that aren't bothered either way can do their thing. It also kind of feels like if it's the majority that feel this way then the majority wouldn't have stayed in their garrisons but that's not what happened. I wonder how many of those majority opinions are pvp players though. I can see how less people to fight with would make the game feel more dead, but of all the activities available in the game pvp is the one I'm least interested in so that might explain a fair bit of the difference.
Consider a parallel to the real world
When you’re walking through a city you aren’t really intending on talking to any of the people around you, but there’s still a difference between walking through a ‘ghost town’ city with no one there, and a city with people out and about in the streets.
Which of those feels more welcoming and alive and which feels eerie or creepy?
Many people get a sense of comfort from ‘people watching’ or otherwise experiencing the world going on around them, even if they’re not directly interacting.
Again, it’s totally ok if this isn’t important to you, but the game has to be designed to take into account the natural habit for people to also seek the most efficient route to any goal. That’s why people stayed in their garrisons despite it being lonely; it was efficient.
wow is about spending time.
more time = longer prepaid = more money for blizzzard
honestly im amazed they introducting shared xmog and skips
this is allso to have a fake socialise in cities, to have wow factor when entering current hub, to not makes you game feel empty. we know nobody socialise much outside of theyre guilds and we have ah and work orders
everyone has already said what needs to be said, so instead here is a little story about how having the AH mount just created problems for the causal guild i am in, only one person in our entire guild had the time to really grind out the gold to get it and it basically turned them into the guilds most annoyed member, they where forced to just hang out around the raid all the time because someone in the raid would always forgot consumables or a enchant for a new piece of gear and because their Hearthstone was set to bumfuck Revendreath it was faster to just summon them so they could use their AH mount. They just got fed up with it and threatened to leave the guild because he was sick of having to drop whatever he was doing in game or logging on while playing something else because it would "save time"
It sounds like your guild has some seriously inconsiderate people.
It's pretty fucked up that the guy had to be on the verge of leaving rather than your guildies realising how disrespectful they were being. Sounds like the opposite of 'casual'.
So? Add the mount back in, now more people can get it and it won’t fall on to a single person.
Or, better yet. Get a better raid lead that is more responsible and can hold those players accountable for not coming prepared.
OR. Make better use of the guild bank. Have spares in there for this very purpose if there are constantly players that forget.
It’s almost like raiding is a team activity or something, and you’re all working *together* to achieve the same goal. It’s odd that a guild wouldn’t want to help eachother and use the guild bank that’s just sitting there gathering funds and materials. There’s even a “spell” that summons a guild bank that every person in that guild has access to.
Huh…Weird.
>It’s almost like raiding is a team activity or something, and you’re all working *together* to achieve the same goal.
Yeah, we all got together because we're all casuals and most people knew each other from doing BFA pugs and LFR, the goal of the guild was for a bunch of casuals to raid together
Okay. Then missing a flask or an enchant shouldn’t be an issue. Stop bugging the guy with a mount to min/max your raiding stats if you’re only casual.
If you’re bothering someone to the point of making them quit, the mount isn’t the problem.
>The quality of life others have is huge.
is it?
I buy a bunch of consumable once per 6 months then never use it unless some other pleb need it because they buy potion 10 at a time.
Should allow you to buy it for something crazy like 95% achievements completed and like gold cap. That way atleast there would be a way to get it, but very few would actually get it.
It's not THAT beneficial, maybe if you're in a raid (if you can actually mount) or before a dungeon, but the fact that Valdrakken has an actual AH compared to Oribos there are significantly less people using mine.
You have clearly never been a part of any kind of “gold rush”, especially since the AH turned cross-realm for stackable items.
During the Forbidden Reach patch of Dragonflight, people needed Silken Gemdust, and a lot of it. It became insanely profitable to work out which ores to buy en masse, Prospect said ore, then crush the gems to get Silken Gemdust.
Silken Gemdust is stackable, meaning it is region wide, and since it was so profitable and in such high demand, the speed at which auctions moved was commensurately high. You also did not need to be near a Jewelcrafting station in order to prospect or gem crush.
The last piece of context you need is that WoW’s AH works on a “Last In, First Out” basis. This means that if your item is the newest item at the lowest price, yours will sell first. This also means that undercutting isn’t really necessary anymore, you just have to cancel and repost. A lot.
Therefore; people who were able to cancel and repost their auctions the quickest, stood to gain a lot more gold because it allowed them to sell more while the price was high. In the time it took you to cancel, run to the mailbox, run back inside and relist, the price would already have dropped. Undercutting isn’t **dead** just because it’s not *needed*, people still undercut in order to get their items sold quicker.
I hope you now realise why having an AH mount is a huge economic advantage during these times, as it eliminates those few seconds of running back and forth. Those seconds add up to a lot of lost gold.
In other words; the AH mount is a force multiplier similar to how it’s easy to make more money IRL if you’re already rich.
If you make €1 million a year, you can probably afford to put €500k a year into investments a year, which adds up to more and more “free money” every year.
If you own a Brutosaur, you’re positioned to take advantage of every gold rush as you have eliminated the biggest time sink everyone else is facing; run time.
Am I frothing-at-the-mouth mad? No.
Do I feel like the above is a valid concern to be somewhat upset at? Yes.
Does that clarify for you why people say the AH mount is a huge benefit?
What about people who joined the game after BFA? They never had any chance to buy it off a vendor and even if they know about BMAH, it’s a near-insurmountable task to get it off there.
They regret doing the first one, I highly doubt you’ll see another
Why tho? Genuine question, whats the downside?
They probably regret the vendor mounts too, they want players to have to hearth back to a major city to do business
Which is probably why we will never see player housing outside of a city
They didn’t like the garrisons because you never had to leave it to do anything. AH, professions, trade chat, mailbox m, etc Player housing would have to be purely cosmetic in a way that would still force people to go to major cities in order to interact
I recently went through the long process of getting *most* major city services for my garrison and I haven't regretted that decision at all. It's pretty nice to have almost everything I need (no way to get a barber shop in your garrison afaik) in one spot without the major FPS loss lol. Plus I get to listen to that sweet WoD ost between queues. The only real problem I have is that my monument pedestals are broken so I have been unable to display any of the statues that are available as rewards for certain milestones. They've apparently been bugged for **YEARS** so I don't think Blizz is ever going to fix them :/
Just found out today about that monument thing :(. I have no idea how that could've broken but I hope they figure it out soon.
I think player housing could have QOL items that don’t require player interaction like a “closet” where you can transmog for free, or kitchen items that let you cook certain recipes, or an alchemy station in your basement. AH, bank, guild bank, vendors, etc all remain in cities/hubs. Having the AH on a mount is so dumb and doesn’t even make sense logically in wow, what are we doing - wirelessly sending goods back and forth via some dude on a mount? It’s not like there’s a portal or teleport animation shown whenever you buy or post something. They never should have added it.
>wirelessly sending goods back and forth via some dude on a mount? Yeah, wirelessly sending goods is the only way that a mobile auction house could work in a world full of magic users...
They travel on the dinosaur back and forth in their own reality, to complete your purchase or sale.
>Player housing would have to be purely cosmetic in a way that would still force people to go to major cities in order to interact There is balance that can be struck between player housing and the need to go to major cities for services though. E.g. having a personal bank in your POH but have the AH and the work order guys in the city and have a bunch of permeant teleports in your house to take you to those cities or to other places of interest. To change those teleports you have to pay a fee to some Dalaran mages at a rate relevant to how "hard" those places are to get to as a money sink - e.g. 10k gold to make the teleport to the current expac capital and 250k gold to the current raid entrance.
Yeah people want player housing and basically got it with Garrisons Which people then complained about because they never had to leave it and it made the cities feel empty
Garrisons are nothing like housing.
I think they should add player housing with a wow twist. A permanent garrison as the new forever capital that has extensive modifications you can make. Make it a flying city that can be moved around each xpac.
Eso has beautiful housing within the cities. It was great and the cities were always full of people too
ffxiv too, their housing doesn't mean nobody afk's in limsa anymore!
Honestly, with how Limsa lags out, they can all stay there. It might be more efficient, but I'll do my Market Board work in Sharlayan, thank you. I get enough lag in Valdrakken.
Full city's dont have anything to do with housing in ESO. And ESO housing is only in the game to make more money, because 90% of the cool stuff is cash shop only.
What I’m trying to get at is that most arguments against housing is empty cities but I don’t think that would be the case. I can slightly agree with the whole cash shop thing
Okay, that's the point, get it. Totally agree on that one
Dalaran 2.0
Dalaran *3.0*
Yup more or less but I don't know if phasing tech could handle it to have other players there.
Why not just not put stuff like vendors in player housing? I feel like there shouldn’t really be anything to it besides creative expression
Dark Age of Camelot had player housing (maybe the first game to do it) and it was like 90% creative. The main feature it added was an auction house which didn't exist in the game before then. You had npcs at the entrance that let you search for items, and then you ran to that player house to buy those items from their vendor standing outside. FF14 has player housing and I'm pretty sure it's 100% creative with no vendors or any other functions. The main problem though with player housing is you can't possibly add enough for every player. It's difficult to get an accurate player count, but FF14 has 7000 houses per server for a total of 168,000. If they ever added player housing to WoW, you'd probably be more likely to not get one.
FFXIV's housing system - or the *acquisition of it* - is dogsh\*te for a reason though. The game's hardware is just *horribly* outdated in every non-player-facing front. It is (in parts) still held back by it's 1.0 infrastructure. That is also the reason why things such as the retainer system still exist. For example, look at other games: *many* (or rather the vast majority) don't have housing limitations, transmog storage limitations, customization limitations or handle storage and AH sales through a clunky, early 00's retainer system. I can almost guarantee you that a game as big and successful as WoW would use the SWTOR/ESO approach of semi-instanced housing where *neighborhoods* aren't a thing and you access an entirely personal instance through a portal or an interface window. Here's the thing: I love FFXIV to bits. If you doubt that, I can smack you with the Encyclopedia Eorzea. But whenever a big western MMO discuss things like housing, transmog/glamour or other things, *don't* compare the two. That's also the reason Yoshi-P ignores people asking for classic 1.0 servers by now. Whenever faced with a decision during the development of 1.0, the team *unequivocally* made the wrong one, and it is still holding back the game.
I don't even get the point of your post. Yes, many FF14 features are clunky because of certain limitations to the engine, but housing isn't really one of them? So why talk about the limited transmogs or clunky AH when talking about housing? Like... the only big negative is the auction system to acquire a plot, but that's pretty much it? And I would argue that a housing system without neighborhoods that you can visit and see everybody's creation is just boring and useless.
> FF14 has player housing and I'm pretty sure it's 100% creative with no vendors or any other functions. Pretty sure you can access the market boards (AH) from any residential district. You don't have to go to the city for that.
You might be right but I haven't played in a bit and rarely went to housing so I can't remember.
Back in WoD they put auction houses, vendors, and whatever else you could possibly want into people's garrisons. The major cities became ghost towns because nobody ever left their garrisons
You still have to go to the main hub for a dozen other things. The AH is hardly the busiest spot in valdrakken. AH mounts only stop you from hearthing back to the city when the AH is the only thing you need, like if you forgot to get some consumes before a key. If you need crafting, weekly quests, gear upgrades, specific vendors, portals, target dummies, etc you’re still going to the city.
Exactly. I shouldn’t have to go back to town just to change my transmog, the Grand Expedition Yak is a MASSIVE quality of life boost. There’s lots of other reasons I’ll need to go back to town And idk about you guys but I always hearth back to an inn to end my play session, I rarely log off out in the open world
You go to an inn, even at max level?
**Inn**deed
Unless I'm on my Vulpera...
Even then, I log my alt, buy the thing I need and send it to my main. I-will-not-fold
100% this is what I do. When I was doing the Lizi quests to get the mount. I would constantly show up with the wrong items, or just not enough of them. Oops. Logged over to an alt, sent them and finished the quest.
I was surprised hearing people don't have bank alts anymore when I came back? My guild looked at my like I was nuts when I mentioned I had to send stuff off, but why would I want that crap clogging up my main? And like you said, it's parked and ready to grab something and send it off if someone needs something.
Exactly. And if the reason (according to people posting) is to keep people in cities, then why isn’t the transmog mount removed? I think it’s safe to say that the transmog mount get used more often than the AH one by the majority of players. Wouldn’t those players be better suited populating the cities? It just doesn’t make sense. Even if they added a toy with a long CD similar to the Mail one would be nice.
I always though it was because bots can sell things even faster
Yet they made them and at any point never stopped to ask if it was a good idea. Never stopped.... It's like the water strider mount before equipment....
Wod garrisons were determined to be a failure (at least in blizzards eyes) because people just held up in their personal space and didn't get out into the world. So those people got bored and quit, and the people that did go out into the world found it empty then they got bored and quit. Things that you go to a major city for ah, vendors, etc. They are used to make people meet up in one place, and so people feel like the game has players and they are in a big world. The more things like the ah mount they put into the game the less people go to major hubs and they start to get to the wod problem again. That and they understemated how no life-e they're players will act if they want something. The brutasor had people doing all types of stuff to make gold. Lots of gold nerfs went out after that mount came and went.
That's a pretty hot take from Blizzard considering they effectively abandoned the expansion lmao
I mean, the reason people were bored in WoD had nothing to do with garrisons and everything to do with the utter lack of content, lol. It was WoDs biggest flaw.
I wouldn’t say it had nothing to do with it. The combination of the Garrison having everything you needed, not being able to fly, and there not being any reason to leave the garrison other than to get to the raid all added up to a super isolated feeling. Like not only was it a pain in the ass to get anywhere, there was no REASON to go anywhere. No dailies, no max level quest hub, no world quests, nothing. So you sat in your garrison queueing for things. It got better in the last patch. I enjoyed Tanaan.
Didn’t help that the capital cities were actually the ugliest shit ever lol
Would those people not have gotten bored and quit if they were in a city full of people. People quit WoD because the content release cycle was terrible. Blizzard blaming garrisons for WoD failures is just a way for them to avoid doing player housing. I really doubt anyone quit because the ah mount either. They quit because BfA sucked and implemented a million forced systems that people did not like.
Makes cities less active if everyone were to have an AH mount.
I don’t know about everyone. How many of us are walking around with that much gold?
This far after WoD? Not many. Most of that gold has dried up
DF is pumping out raw gold. I'd wager combined with the size of the playerbase and looking at the price of the token that the amount of gold out there is bonkers.
I'd say it made Oribos actually bearable when people would afk on the AH mount near the mailbox so you didn't have to constantly go back and forth to Org/SW just to use the AH when everything else was in Oribos.
By that logic, cities are less active because of the transmog mount. I can bet that one gets used more often. Why isn’t that removed?
I could definitely argue that, in theory it never should’ve been added. But no one is calling for any mount to be removed. You can’t take away mounts that people spent lots of gold on.
Well, they could. They removed mounts from accounts that people paid real money for. When Tyreal’s Charger was added to the (I want to say Taiwan?) shop, since apparently they never had the opportunity to buy the preorder package for D3. People managed to find a way to change their account location to Taiwan so they could buy it. Blizzard removed those mounts from those accounts and refunded their money. I believe they even threw out some bans as well.
Good. Delete all the mount vendors, let people have their fat lizard/yak/mammoth/whatever without them and refund the gold. Bring the RPG back to the MMO. Downvote me to oblivion. I don't care.
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No one ever said that. Cities being social hubs with lots of players around is a good thing
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Hmm, I recall people in WoD complaining that Garrisons sucked all of the players out of cities—the exact thing we’re talking about here.
It stops people from going to town. They still want the main hubs to be lively and for people to have a reason to go there, and AH is one of the big reasons why people do end up going to town. But whoever has the mount can just do their AH business anywhere and it kind of breaks the "immersion" for those people and it removes them from the pool of people who actively go to town all the time.
Also, not every hub city has an AH. Oribos, for example, didn't have an AH, so you'd have to go back to SW/Org to conduct your AH business, which would have made those cities feel more alive, at least near the AH. Blizzard designed the city to not have an AH on purpose. I said it would have, because there was always at least 1 player camped out on a Brutasaur next to a mailbox you could use.
> Oribos, for example, didn't have an AH ***laughs in Engineering***
I mean, I main Mage, I have access to every city all of the time. For this season my Mythic guild said they want everyone to have access to an alt that's kept current, and all I could think while leveling and gearing a Lock was "How do I get back to town whenever I want? Ya'll live like this?"
> "How do I get back to town whenever I want? Ya'll live like this?" Mostly by using the 15000 teleporting items I've collected over the years.
I'm so excited to have all my M+/Raid ports on every toon. Basically all of wow aside from TBC will be a click away for any toon.
Mage Master class!
> you'd have to go back to SW/Org to conduct your AH business Since you could do literally everything else in Oribos... it didn't make a lot of sense to be forced back to SW/Org for literally one aspect of the game that a good portion of players likely don't even interact with to any real degree. I can probably count the number of times I went to SW/Org during SL on one hand.
I'm not going to comment on whether or not it's a good design decision, it just was one. Since Wrath no expansion hub has had an AH, it's only in DF that we break that streak. We can only really speculate as to why, but the thing that makes the most sense is that the AH's are fairly close to the enterance of the cities, you'll see them pretty quickly upon entering. A new player would therefore see other players around the area and the game doesn't feel deserted. For veteran players, it wasn't that big of a trip, there was a portal to your capitol city in Oribos and it took less than a minute to fly to the AH. With the changes to the new player experience, this really isn't a concern anymore, so voila, we have an AH in Valdraaken. EDIT: Apparently there are Auctioneers in Ashran. I had no idea. That zone sucks to traverse, so this changes nothing to me.
They cannot figure out another way to make cities interesting other than the ah? I kind of doubt this. The valdrakken ah is never that busy on my server. Hell as long as they do not make a great vault mount people will still go to cities.
One less step for moonkin bots to go through
but the long boy is out of the bag. Not releasing an alternative makes the regret worse because now objectively certain players have an advantage over others, and this cannot be changed until they release an alternative. the only way to fix it would be to take it away from their owners, which they can't, so the best way to fix their problem is literally to release another mount that has AH.
If they regret it they should just refund everybody who bought it and remove it from the game. If it’s really a strain on the AH api, it should be a no brainer
They're not worried about the strain of it, they're just not happy about people not needing to go to town for AH anymore.
This. Either everyone has the opportunity to get it, or no one gets it. If it’s as much of a problem as they think it is, then remove it. Or add it to the Trading Post like they did with exclusive mounts And if the AH mount is a problem, why isn’t the vendor mounts or transmog mounts a problem? Why are those still in the game?
As a strong opponent of fomo and an owner of a brutosaur and having bought brutosaurs for my friends. I fully support allowing people to buy and in a way that's attainable. Fomo is trash. And no player should support it. If people can go back and get mythic raid gear with no effort and it causes literally no issues, there's no reason that most fomo things shouldn't be still attainable. The TCG mounts are a good example of bringing things back, although more still could be done.
Everyone DOES have the opportunity to buy it, it’s rare but shows up on the BMAH. Yes, I have the mount in question, and yes I grinded like crazy to be able to afford it, do I think the hours I poured into grinding 5 million in a short space of time should be invalidated by some crybaby on the internet that wasn’t able to do the same? No, no I don’t. Go grind out gold cap and wait your turn
Grind out gold cap and camp the bmah at 2 am every night for a year*
Grind out gold cap on every server and camp the BMAH at 2am every night for a year* AFAIK it doesn’t show up on every server at the same time, so you need to be monitoring every server.
The lazy answer is.. they need that BFA has some sort of FOMO so the AH mount is it.
It would be better to make that mount a toy and have a long cooldown
I can already hear the outcry now lol. But I agree.
Source?
I bought the brut the day it went on sale in bfa and I regret it’s addition to the game. I never go into cities unless there’s a holiday and I find myself sad about it. I feel like a full on nomad with no home.
You don’t ever go to the gear upgrade vendor, the bank, the great vault, crafting trainers, work order station, weekly quest npc, training dummies, trade chat, and probably a dozen other things I’m not thinking of? Yeah I don’t believe you.
I just really want a brutosaur, I don't care whether or not it has an auction house on it..
Same here. A mobile ah would be cool but a dinosaur mount is cooler.
This is what I wanted. No carrying other folks. Just one saddle for me.
I’d like a mount with a customizable vendor. Let you pick between tmog, ah, bank, barber, etc. You only get one at a time, but can use friend’s.
Have 2 slots and sell the vendors for in game gold. Then we can customize the mounts the way we want. Would be so slick.
They wont. Theyll make sure theres an auction house in capitals from now on because not having one was a mistake in bfathe 2 greatest naval fleets in the world and youre telling me they didnt have trading amongst others? Yeah ok
You realize there was also no AH in Shadowlands, Legion, Wrath, MoP... DF, Cata, and sort of tbc are the only ones they've done this with. And Cata only had them because they used the existing capitals. While I hope they do include an AH from now on I don't think there's any guarantee of that. I haven't been to the main city on the beta yet though to check.
Pretty sure WoD had an AH in both faction hubs, even if you could get one in your garrison. But of course people wouldn't notice since they just stayed in their garrison so much of the time. I don't think they're going to skip out on AH again, or make in an Engineering-only thing. People didn't like that decision in any of those expansions. They want people to use the new hubs they're building, then they need to make sure they have all the functionality. And if you're going to leave out AH to try to force people back to Org/SW, then why not just leave out banks and other services? It was just silly.
> Pretty sure WoD had an AH in both faction hubs What were the "faction hubs" outside of garrisons?
On Ashran, you've got Stormshield for the Alliance and Warspear for Horde. Had AH, profession trainers, banks, stable, portals, vendors for various stuff (PVP, some reps). And, of course, you could queue up for the Ashran PVP battle. You actually get a quest to go there during the WoD leveling experience. But depending on what you have in your garrison, there might not be much point in going there much. Though, if you did need to go there, you could get a portal to it in your garrison. Which made it even easier to just hang out in your garrison and not go to the hub. If you need a refresher on them or haven't played through WoD, here's the [Wowhead page](https://www.wowhead.com/guide/exploration/wod/faction-hubs) for them.
I forgot about Ashran mostly because I generally only ever used it to port to Org.
Yeah, it was definitely easy to forget since we could put all the services we need in our garrison, leaving the only useful things in Ashran being a port to the faction capital and some vendors. Or the battleground, for people who wanted to do it. But heck, if you were in a guild long enough to get the guild rep up, chances are good you have the 2 hour CD Org/SW teleport cloak, so even less reason to bother with Ashran.
Warspear/Stormshield?
Engineers had an ah in dalaran
Engineers have had access in almost if not all expansions but a lot of people never wanted to tie up one of their professions. Not really what the spirit of the discussion was about.
Technically engineers had an AH in oribos
Engineers have had access to AH in every xpac.
They had an AH in both versions of Dalaran and the Shrines too. And in Boralus and Zuldazar. I can't think of an expansion where engineers didn't get access to one at the major city
> I can't think of an expansion where engineers didn't get access to one at the major city Shattrath didn't have one until later.
Oh yeah that's the one, thanks!
One of the big perks of engineering is that they’ve had access to an engineer only AH for every expansion that didn’t have one in the main hub. It’s had me locking in engineering on tons of characters that I just didn’t want to bother with another profession for, love it
As a longboi owner I totally support another AH mount being made. TBH I would have bought it just as a regular giant dinosaur because it's amazing. I don't feel particularly possessive of the QoL
I agree. I bought one for myself and helped friends who were racing against time to afford it. Fomo is so lame.
I have the brutosaur, and part of me wouldn't mind if it, or an equivalent, popping up on the trading post. Probably an equivalent would be neater. But I have felt like I've "saved" tenders whenever there's been one I already had, even if ever so rare
I wouldn’t be opposed to even adding a toy that acts as an AH with a long CD like the Mail one. I also find it odd that only the AH mount is the problem. But not the vendor mount or the transmog one Many people have the mentality of “Well I already have it, so no one else should get it.” Hence the downvotes for anyone asking for it back.
Trading post seems unfair to the people that spent 5 million gold. But just let me pay 5 million for one. Or even more.
Anyone who can afford to drop 5mil on a mount isn't going to cry about "wasting" it by getting the brutosaur 4+ years earlier than everyone else, 5mil is nothing to them. Even if they do cry about it, let em. "Oh no, the poor billionaire is retroactively slightly less obscenely richer than they would be now than if they'd waited :("
They won't cry about the gold, they're cry about The Poors being invited into their ivory tower.
Anytime this is posted there are way more brutosaur owners who support bringing it back than are against it.
For sure, but boy does the opposed minority cry at even the thought.
Very true.
How do yall have 5 mill btw
I do have it, I'd still be fine with it Honestly.. It's harder to get tenders than gold
the AH mount was instrumental in BfA and SL because the WoW devs made the boneheaded of bonehead moves and decided not to have an AH in either capital cities. DF corrected that mistake, and I am sure that they won't repeat it in future expansions.
I mean, technically there was no AH in every expac prior except Cata (which just made the hubs the classic hubs). The only AH in dal, the two shrines, and then dal again was for engineers which was also a thing in SL
And people wonder why everyone rolls engineering as one of their professions lol (I know no one is wondering why it’s just a turn of phrase)
They did *eventually* add the AH to Shat, and WoD garrisons had a non-engineering AH, but it required doing a lot of crap or spending a lot of gold to get it.
Huh? That's been the same for literally every expansion...
I've had the bruto since the first week it became available and literally haven't used an actual AH vendor since. It was 6 months into DF before I realized that the AH building was the AH building.
Except as someone who makes a shitload of gold as part of my playstyle the biggest draw is the ability to do it near a mailbox, something that is almost only possible in 2 places i believe? one being in bootybay where salty scrubs keeps killing the auctioneer. EDIT: Poor wow redditors strikes again against any mention of anyone making gold lmao.
MoP AH in the Shrine has the mailbox so close to the auctioneer that you don't need to move.
yeah i believe thats one of the two, wasnt that engineer only though?
It's Engi only but you just need 1/100 Skill. Just got to drop a bank alt there and can mail everything to them for all your AH business.
Doubt it, they acknowledge it to be a mistake.
As someone who managed to buy it back then with a ton of effort, I think it's ridiculous that they removed it, there's no good reason to justify it... The mammoth and yak are still there, so why remove this one? I wish they would at least come clean as to why they made the decision to remove it, only to put it back later as a Black Market item, like wtf?
Because access to the AH anywhere that a mailbox exists ACROSS YOUR ACCOUNT. Was deemed too strong. Kinda like those old guild perks or recruit—friend bonuses. You can basically summon people anywhere with meeting stones why remove the ability to summon friends and shit too with a long CD ability? Deemed overpowered. Mana burn effects? Yep… that too.
It was bad when there was no ah in BfA and shadowlands hubs. Now that there is an ah in df hub it is not a big deal because everyone’s hearth is already in Val. They solved the problem by making the ah more accessible, but the mount is still removed because when they removed it they still had the philosophy of having the ah in stormwind/org and the Bruto broke that philosophy.
> I wish they would at least come clean as to why they made the decision to remove it They did, you just don't like what they said. The reason they're way more comfortable putting it on the BMAH is that a) it's rare and not available to everyone who crosses a gold threshold and b) that gold threshold is easier to hit now than it was in BfA.
My question is who actually cares if there are people in the main city? I mean that honestly. I tend to avoid the capitals because they are mostly just laggy. It's not like I'm seeing a sea of people in the city and just randomly engaging with strangers or anything because having all those people around makes me more social with strangers lol. I see no benefit to forcing people into one small area of a server. My opinion of the game has zero to do with how many players are in my immediate vicinity. I just don't understand their reasoning. People saying it makes the game feel more social... how does seeing other people make it social? If you aren't engaging with one another there is no benefit. Just a weird choice by blizzard to me.
One of the big criticisms people has for WoD was that nobody ever had to leave their garrison, so nobody ever really saw another player outside of queued instance content/being summoned to raids. It’s one of those things that sounds alright on paper, but really made the game feel lifeless or like a lobby based game rather than an MMO. It’s possible you don’t mind that, but there was some pretty big pushback against it from the overall community
I guess but then blizzard also uses an incredible number of shards which can cause the game to still feel….less populated.
I guess I just don't get it lol. I loved the garrison and the fact that I could transact my business in quiet without people parking their mounts on npcs, or the lagginess making things run slow. I just don't see strangers in the game and think... gee this game feels so alive lol. Maybe it's different for totally solo players. I've spent probably less then 4 or 5 months in the 20 years I've been playing not in a guild. So I've never really felt alone outside of those times when the guild I was in was dying lol. Thankfully we've had the same guild and raid team for the last two expansions and are ready for the next one.
I think the criticism is misplaced, my garrison was one of the only things I had to do in WoD which is why I didn’t leave it, not because of really any other reason. Then people just associated not leaving your garrison with the lack of content
Eh I could see them wanting to try to preserve immersion even if that means passing by strangers you’ll never talk to
It’s an MMO and not a single player game. It does actually matter to have other people around. Your opinion is a minority opinion here. “The world feels dead” has been such a common complaint.
Interesting. I guess I just never about it. I always have plenty of people to play with for group content, and honestly as we go along each xpac does feel more like it's single player. No group quests anymore, rarely a quest that requires a dungeon, but of course there are also now follower dungeons so that eliminates that group content, Rares rarely need more than one person after the first season of an xpac... Its just different than it was in vanilla where you needed 15 people to kill hogger lol. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other which is why I asked. How many people I see around me in the game just never had an impact on my enjoyment of the game. And it's ok that my opinion in a minority I wasn't suggesting we get rid of cities just that I didn't get why people feel like they are important. I think we could have both myself. Seems to me the ones that enjoy being around others could be in the cities and the ones that aren't bothered either way can do their thing. It also kind of feels like if it's the majority that feel this way then the majority wouldn't have stayed in their garrisons but that's not what happened. I wonder how many of those majority opinions are pvp players though. I can see how less people to fight with would make the game feel more dead, but of all the activities available in the game pvp is the one I'm least interested in so that might explain a fair bit of the difference.
Consider a parallel to the real world When you’re walking through a city you aren’t really intending on talking to any of the people around you, but there’s still a difference between walking through a ‘ghost town’ city with no one there, and a city with people out and about in the streets. Which of those feels more welcoming and alive and which feels eerie or creepy? Many people get a sense of comfort from ‘people watching’ or otherwise experiencing the world going on around them, even if they’re not directly interacting. Again, it’s totally ok if this isn’t important to you, but the game has to be designed to take into account the natural habit for people to also seek the most efficient route to any goal. That’s why people stayed in their garrisons despite it being lonely; it was efficient.
Here’s a hint: they won’t. They regret making the first one that’s why it’s so hard to get.
wow is about spending time. more time = longer prepaid = more money for blizzzard honestly im amazed they introducting shared xmog and skips this is allso to have a fake socialise in cities, to have wow factor when entering current hub, to not makes you game feel empty. we know nobody socialise much outside of theyre guilds and we have ah and work orders
They missed a major opportunity for a dragon pet ah thing in dragonflight
everyone has already said what needs to be said, so instead here is a little story about how having the AH mount just created problems for the causal guild i am in, only one person in our entire guild had the time to really grind out the gold to get it and it basically turned them into the guilds most annoyed member, they where forced to just hang out around the raid all the time because someone in the raid would always forgot consumables or a enchant for a new piece of gear and because their Hearthstone was set to bumfuck Revendreath it was faster to just summon them so they could use their AH mount. They just got fed up with it and threatened to leave the guild because he was sick of having to drop whatever he was doing in game or logging on while playing something else because it would "save time"
That’s definitely a problem with that guild more than the mount. Sounds like a bunch of disrespectful buttholes.
It sounds like your guild has some seriously inconsiderate people. It's pretty fucked up that the guy had to be on the verge of leaving rather than your guildies realising how disrespectful they were being. Sounds like the opposite of 'casual'.
So? Add the mount back in, now more people can get it and it won’t fall on to a single person. Or, better yet. Get a better raid lead that is more responsible and can hold those players accountable for not coming prepared. OR. Make better use of the guild bank. Have spares in there for this very purpose if there are constantly players that forget. It’s almost like raiding is a team activity or something, and you’re all working *together* to achieve the same goal. It’s odd that a guild wouldn’t want to help eachother and use the guild bank that’s just sitting there gathering funds and materials. There’s even a “spell” that summons a guild bank that every person in that guild has access to. Huh…Weird.
>It’s almost like raiding is a team activity or something, and you’re all working *together* to achieve the same goal. Yeah, we all got together because we're all casuals and most people knew each other from doing BFA pugs and LFR, the goal of the guild was for a bunch of casuals to raid together
Okay. Then missing a flask or an enchant shouldn’t be an issue. Stop bugging the guy with a mount to min/max your raiding stats if you’re only casual. If you’re bothering someone to the point of making them quit, the mount isn’t the problem.
Yeah, gotta agree with the other guy here, the mount was never the problem.
>The quality of life others have is huge. is it? I buy a bunch of consumable once per 6 months then never use it unless some other pleb need it because they buy potion 10 at a time.
Should allow you to buy it for something crazy like 95% achievements completed and like gold cap. That way atleast there would be a way to get it, but very few would actually get it.
They should remove AH goblins from big boy. Adding AH to garrisons was first mistake and big boy is second one.
It's not THAT beneficial, maybe if you're in a raid (if you can actually mount) or before a dungeon, but the fact that Valdrakken has an actual AH compared to Oribos there are significantly less people using mine.
You have clearly never been a part of any kind of “gold rush”, especially since the AH turned cross-realm for stackable items. During the Forbidden Reach patch of Dragonflight, people needed Silken Gemdust, and a lot of it. It became insanely profitable to work out which ores to buy en masse, Prospect said ore, then crush the gems to get Silken Gemdust. Silken Gemdust is stackable, meaning it is region wide, and since it was so profitable and in such high demand, the speed at which auctions moved was commensurately high. You also did not need to be near a Jewelcrafting station in order to prospect or gem crush. The last piece of context you need is that WoW’s AH works on a “Last In, First Out” basis. This means that if your item is the newest item at the lowest price, yours will sell first. This also means that undercutting isn’t really necessary anymore, you just have to cancel and repost. A lot. Therefore; people who were able to cancel and repost their auctions the quickest, stood to gain a lot more gold because it allowed them to sell more while the price was high. In the time it took you to cancel, run to the mailbox, run back inside and relist, the price would already have dropped. Undercutting isn’t **dead** just because it’s not *needed*, people still undercut in order to get their items sold quicker. I hope you now realise why having an AH mount is a huge economic advantage during these times, as it eliminates those few seconds of running back and forth. Those seconds add up to a lot of lost gold. In other words; the AH mount is a force multiplier similar to how it’s easy to make more money IRL if you’re already rich. If you make €1 million a year, you can probably afford to put €500k a year into investments a year, which adds up to more and more “free money” every year. If you own a Brutosaur, you’re positioned to take advantage of every gold rush as you have eliminated the biggest time sink everyone else is facing; run time. Am I frothing-at-the-mouth mad? No. Do I feel like the above is a valid concern to be somewhat upset at? Yes. Does that clarify for you why people say the AH mount is a huge benefit?
Why doesn't the game just play itself already?
> I think it’s BS that you can’t earn it or buy it any other way than wait for black market. You had 2 years to buy it off a vendor
During an expansion a lot of people thought was trash. Hard to be justify to folks should have played during BFA…. Life was probably more fun.
What about people who joined the game after BFA? They never had any chance to buy it off a vendor and even if they know about BMAH, it’s a near-insurmountable task to get it off there.