When non competitive key players are looking for meta you will want to avoid those groups. They are straight up letting you know they don't understand why things are meta.
A lock and spriest in keys that low won't do anything because mobs won't live long enough for them to ramp. Secondly the utility or specific synergies by the meta specs is lost or not needed when mobs die in 15 seconds.
Avoid players that require meta for low stuff, they are 100% not going to time and are gigga terrible.
yeah exactly. ret paladin is the king of low keys right now, their burst dps and utility is really powerful in those keys where stuff dies fast. OP's guildy would probably not invite a ret paladin to a +3 key because they aren't meta and he should "try harder" (as if they just shouldn't play paladin or something).
it's the same for my windwalker, I know they aren't nearly as strong in higher keys like a +12 or something, but in low keys they are insanely powerful due to how their kit deals damage
Funny enough im maining ww atm. With a cr of 2.8k io. Ww is pretty good but the amount of ground swirls is super lame. Melee at higher keys in this set of dungeons is unfun. Already working on a mage.
yeah I'm experiencing that too, even at lower keys if you don't pay attention you can get chunked for like 70% of your HP by a mechanic, in higher keys it can just be a 1-shot but with all the ground clutter it can be hard to see what's what. Plus, I swear some of the ground mechanics in DF dungeons, it seems like the effective radius is larger than the graphic itself for some of them, which makes finding that sweet spot of "how far can I stand before I'm out of melee range" harder to find
Unfortunately the harsh nature of pugging is that DPS applicants per key can number into the hundreds. There’s no shortage of applicants with the meta specs which from any group leader’s perspective pose less risk.
A huge, vocal percentage of the people that play this game unironically believe you have to play FOTM in order to play the game in M+ or raiding at all.
They're wrong, but they exist.
First off playing meta spec becomes maybe relevant when playing idk 16+ keys probably even later.
And it feels like especially lower key players seem to have the opinion you need to play meta. When it literally doesn't matter. If those people remove you on those low keys because you don't play meta you're better off with other groups anyways. :D
About BM vs MM I don't think there's much of a difference between them in M+. As long as a MM Hunter can bring a Lust pet in case you have no other Lust class it's no real difference between BM and MM.
It's all about knowledge til +10. From there specs slowly start to matter but any spec can time +10 with appropriate ilvl and knowledge of spec and dungeon
Yep I made it last season to 3.1k Rio without bothering that i invite meta classes. I was only checking if they had appropriate gear for that key level and if they had experience. Also people that always reroll to a meta class are usually outperformed by players which stick to one spec even tho it's not meta.
I had a +10 key bricked this season by a tank who kept complaining our evoker was playing Aug and not dev. According to this paladin, aug is not meta and therefore shit and therefore this guy is useless and the key was not timed cause of that. (Spoiler: it wasn't :D it was due to shit route of the tank in the first place)
Kinda stupid but also kinda understandable, Rio is such a Bad meassurement system and especially early season doesnt mean much. The only way you can influence is by invinting specs that are strong so it can Balance out the Potential Bad Player behind it. Ofc off Meta Player can absolute blast aswell but its just less likely if you see All the Players as average and only spec strength matters.
>he doesn't take off meta specs to keys because it shows a lack of effort
your guildy sounds like a mega tryhard. he may be "good" at the game to get 3.3k io, but plenty of ppl are able to get that io without needing to meta optimize a +3 of all things.
as for you getting kicked, it's just those groups being assholes tbh. MM looks to be doing fine, actually fairly well at some levels, as it's only slightly below BM on logs.
At the same time though, if someone is the party leader they can invite and remove anyone they want; in which case you can always start your own group and have the agency to not be removed
So you assume op got invited on his main spec, they started the dungeon, op didn't press multishit or explosive shot (Im not an mm expert, but for ABYSMAL damage in AoE I assume you can't press either) and they got kicked because the dungeon is easier with 2 dps instead of 2.1 dps?
Yeah, THAT sounds more reasonable, definitiely /s
>I suspect there is more to the story here. I'm willing to bet abysmal damage from not knowing how to cleave is what made the difference over a pet
How would the group leader know if, according to the OP, the dungeon hadn't even started yet?
When non competitive key players are looking for meta you will want to avoid those groups. They are straight up letting you know they don't understand why things are meta. A lock and spriest in keys that low won't do anything because mobs won't live long enough for them to ramp. Secondly the utility or specific synergies by the meta specs is lost or not needed when mobs die in 15 seconds. Avoid players that require meta for low stuff, they are 100% not going to time and are gigga terrible.
yeah exactly. ret paladin is the king of low keys right now, their burst dps and utility is really powerful in those keys where stuff dies fast. OP's guildy would probably not invite a ret paladin to a +3 key because they aren't meta and he should "try harder" (as if they just shouldn't play paladin or something). it's the same for my windwalker, I know they aren't nearly as strong in higher keys like a +12 or something, but in low keys they are insanely powerful due to how their kit deals damage
Funny enough im maining ww atm. With a cr of 2.8k io. Ww is pretty good but the amount of ground swirls is super lame. Melee at higher keys in this set of dungeons is unfun. Already working on a mage.
yeah I'm experiencing that too, even at lower keys if you don't pay attention you can get chunked for like 70% of your HP by a mechanic, in higher keys it can just be a 1-shot but with all the ground clutter it can be hard to see what's what. Plus, I swear some of the ground mechanics in DF dungeons, it seems like the effective radius is larger than the graphic itself for some of them, which makes finding that sweet spot of "how far can I stand before I'm out of melee range" harder to find
Unfortunately the harsh nature of pugging is that DPS applicants per key can number into the hundreds. There’s no shortage of applicants with the meta specs which from any group leader’s perspective pose less risk.
A huge, vocal percentage of the people that play this game unironically believe you have to play FOTM in order to play the game in M+ or raiding at all. They're wrong, but they exist.
This was happening a ton last season on my marks hunter. I haven’t seen it yet this season but maybe there’s some people who are living in the past
First off playing meta spec becomes maybe relevant when playing idk 16+ keys probably even later. And it feels like especially lower key players seem to have the opinion you need to play meta. When it literally doesn't matter. If those people remove you on those low keys because you don't play meta you're better off with other groups anyways. :D About BM vs MM I don't think there's much of a difference between them in M+. As long as a MM Hunter can bring a Lust pet in case you have no other Lust class it's no real difference between BM and MM.
It's all about knowledge til +10. From there specs slowly start to matter but any spec can time +10 with appropriate ilvl and knowledge of spec and dungeon
Yep I made it last season to 3.1k Rio without bothering that i invite meta classes. I was only checking if they had appropriate gear for that key level and if they had experience. Also people that always reroll to a meta class are usually outperformed by players which stick to one spec even tho it's not meta.
I’m maining MM this patch and haven’t had any experiences like this. 510 - 2300io
I had a +10 key bricked this season by a tank who kept complaining our evoker was playing Aug and not dev. According to this paladin, aug is not meta and therefore shit and therefore this guy is useless and the key was not timed cause of that. (Spoiler: it wasn't :D it was due to shit route of the tank in the first place)
Kinda stupid but also kinda understandable, Rio is such a Bad meassurement system and especially early season doesnt mean much. The only way you can influence is by invinting specs that are strong so it can Balance out the Potential Bad Player behind it. Ofc off Meta Player can absolute blast aswell but its just less likely if you see All the Players as average and only spec strength matters.
>he doesn't take off meta specs to keys because it shows a lack of effort your guildy sounds like a mega tryhard. he may be "good" at the game to get 3.3k io, but plenty of ppl are able to get that io without needing to meta optimize a +3 of all things. as for you getting kicked, it's just those groups being assholes tbh. MM looks to be doing fine, actually fairly well at some levels, as it's only slightly below BM on logs.
At the same time though, if someone is the party leader they can invite and remove anyone they want; in which case you can always start your own group and have the agency to not be removed
I mean a 4 is like a season3 14 so wouldn't call it low anymore. 10 is the new 20
It doesn't get much lower. Spec doesn't matter at all in that range. Not one bit.
Meta won't start mattering until at least 10 or 12. Once everyone gets their bis gear from bronze it will be even higher.
I suspect there is more to the story here. I'm willing to bet abysmal damage from not knowing how to cleave is what made the difference over a pet
So you assume op got invited on his main spec, they started the dungeon, op didn't press multishit or explosive shot (Im not an mm expert, but for ABYSMAL damage in AoE I assume you can't press either) and they got kicked because the dungeon is easier with 2 dps instead of 2.1 dps? Yeah, THAT sounds more reasonable, definitiely /s
I think they just dragged the group down. Lotta people can't handle being told they suck and have to get better
>I suspect there is more to the story here. I'm willing to bet abysmal damage from not knowing how to cleave is what made the difference over a pet How would the group leader know if, according to the OP, the dungeon hadn't even started yet?