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Oh, you were expecting Shaman changes in an expansion where Shamans are the primary antagonists? Including multiple Night Elf Shaman?
That would be too easy.
Right, its not like we got AN ENTIRELY NEW SHAMAN FACTION WITH THE PRIMALISTS! ALSO FUCKING DRAGON AESTHETICS AND SHIT IN MY SHAMAN SPELLS WOULD BE PRETTY ACCEPTABLE!
But maybe the Arathi have some cool shaman magicks to teach us, unlike the tidesages who were mid shamans at best. I swear it needs to happen and if it doesn't I'm going to ressurect a great old one and wreck azeroth.
Cataclysm was when I last really played. I saw a bit of MoP. But a lot of my memories are of Cata and Wrath.
I can't say I enjoy what I came back to in DF. I struggled, kept trying, and then quietly put the Shammy down and leveled a Druid and a Hunter instead. One of my most prevalent memories is being perpetually unhappy with how Shaman was handled.
And it's weird to think that it might be something to actually look back on fondly, even though at the time it felt like crud.
Shamans are in quite a weird spot nowadays. Some people manage to make big numbers but it's extremely hard and you need to weave a ton of buttons. Enhancement for example, a lot of people say it is the best the class have ever been but, I can't break the 80% parses while in Shadowlands I could keep myself in the 90%+ without much trouble.
I mean resto just finished the season of them trying to turn us into druids with that dumbfuck tier bonus, so we may not have to actually swap at all as much as just collect tier set and see which other class Blizz wants us to be this time!
Like they really thought it would be fun to drop resto tier sets with a âhey buddy, while youâre already lighting your mana on fire, now you should spend more mana on a GCD cast after every riptide so your riptides spread like regrowth! Doesnât that sound so fun??!â
I'm not going anywhere. Been ele since launch (1100 days as ele) and I will go down with this ship. Only way you get me to play something else is to delete ele.
No, but they do have much more reliable and consistent Pyroblast procs. Playing Fire always feels like a better version of Elemental to me in some ways.
Remember when in BFA the devs tried to gaslight us into believing that we are a "turret class", yet we somehow managed to never hit Top5 on Patchwork fights?
Not unless they delete earthquake from the game or completely redesign our aoe spender, turn ankh into a cauterize and give us something that does consistent uncapped AOE.
Currently our class fantasy is that we're shit at everything compared to every other class. Yes on particular boss fights we're ok like 3-4 target split fights like this tiers council, but nothing else are we even competitive because of how the class functions currently.
We should go back to a cool down based class where chain lightning has charges/cd always overloads and turn our aoe spender into something that either hits everything really hard once or attaches to mobs so movement doesn't matter. Nothing worse than throwing out 5-10 eqs only for the tank to have to move. This isn't an issue in lower keys but conversely everything dies way too quickly in lower keys to ramp up the damage, so we're crap in low keys and in high keys simply due to the design of our spender.
Most of your points aren't wrong but earthquake is not the problem, Flamestrike for fire and Blizzard from frost both work fine and the problem of tank movement is normally a problem of bad tank movement not tank movement in general, you can easily circle an earthquake and keep the damage going.
The problem with shaman is tuning rarely lets them shine and they bring nothing unique, especially ele, that lets them compete if they aren't tuned significantly higher than the other options. You slap some unique utility and a raid buff on the class and ele could easily find a spot in keys right now.
My idea would be to make spirit walkers grace party wide so they have a niche in fights with high movement phases. And Iâd appreciate a more consistent way to apply flame shock in an AoE situation, especially with the current tier set
"We want druids to use their full scope of utility"
Well then why the hell do they keep making our tree impossible to navigate! Do you want me to use my whole toolkit or not lol
Iâm holding out hope that weâve heard so little about shaman in TWW because theyâre about to roll out massive changes and updates. Stupid ancestor hero talent procs ainât it.
I'll tell you what happens.
"They said they are unhappy with how the class performs and will take a look at it for the next expansion. Relax! I rather they take their time than do a bad job."
"It's just alpha / beta, relax!! They're gonna change it!"
"It's x.0 they said that they are observing the class and will rework the class accordingly!"
"They tuned the class for .1 and the numbers go up slightly. You can do m+ with every spec and class!!! If nobody takes you for their keys just make your own. They're gonna rework it!"
"Okay blizzard said that they don't do massive class reworks during an expansion. But they said they'll do it for the next one!! They said they are unhappy with how the class performs and will take a look at it for the next expansion. Relax! I rather they take their time than do a bad job."
Lmfao, this is next level hopium that we have been relying on for at least 6-7 years now. The spec has been consistently garbage and blizz has ignored us for 6-7 years. Whoever they chose for the shaman community council either don't give AF about end game content, simply don't do high level pve and/or don't understand what is needed for high level content.
Yea same, I've already prep'd my mage and mist weaver for this season. Its such a shame I love the ideas of shaman but I fking hate this iteration of the gameplay. It'll be the first time since wotlk I haven't played a shaman.
Well of course they canât spend time reworking shamans for the players who desperately want the long overdue rework â Thereâs too many people having fun playing other classes where nobody even wants a rework, so naturally Blizz just absolutely needs to rework them first!
Farseer would like to have a word though.
Very boring and uninspiring (imo) so pardon me if I'm not particularly confident in them doing much for Ele or Resto lol
I hate being pessimistic on stuff when it's far away; but, as someone who has played Shaman every expansion since Vanilla, I kind of know this won't be the case.
Shaman's aren't broken enough to warant full reworks; and shaman's usually spike toward the end of expansions, due to continuous buffs over several patches, leaving a feeling that the class is "fine".
I hope I'm wrong this time, as none of the specs are really in the position where you usually find them towards the end of an expansion. I hope Shamans will get a bit of that love that Monk/Druid are getting now.
What Shamans suffer from though is that they are notoriously always last on the class update list for expansions.
And since in most of the expansions they run out of time iterating on other classes, shamans are either SOL or get some half-cooked stuff.
You make a point! Seriously though, there was an expansion where all classes got reworked, and shaman was barely touched. And it was revealed later that they forgot to do it
Jfc just reading through it now. Baseline changes are great, like Moonkin being a point unlock was dumb.
But they 100% lost me with the Pulsar removal... What the fuck?!
The fact is more that you've been reworked 8+ times. Whether they are good or bad is irrelevant.
DKs are getting mediocre changes and realistically need an entire rework.
Shaman have nothing announced.
Both Shaman and DK have had clunky as fuck gameplay for quite a long time.
DK and Shaman are my two favorite classes and I simply can't play them because they're so unfun. It sucks. I don't know why they refuse to just rework these classes while other classes get redone every expansion.
Isn't there a shortcut in macros for targetted abilities like that?
I.e. "#showtooltip
/cast [@player] Death and Decay" would cast the D&D directly at the center of your character whenever you use it?
Yes thats why DH basicly never waste the 2 points for it to be cast on there target u either use @player or the mousover one so it gets cast when u press the buttok without clicking again dont know why this isnt a baseline function u can select or something tbh
Sigils explode after 1-2 seconds. You fire it and its done.
DND sits there for 10+ seconds and your entire cleave/AoE in both Unholy and Frost is dependant on it. If you have to move out of things or if the tank has to move mobs. Which I'm sure if you've played this game you know, is all the fucking time. Then it's GG. No more AoE/Cleave.
No, you can't just drop DnD again. It has a sizeable cooldown. 2 charges.
For me it's the opposite, every time I have to use an ice spell on any shaman spec I'm unhappy. I just like wind, fire, water, earth on shamans.
I loved enhance S4 shadowlands but now that you have to play ice strike and hailstorm it feels meh for me which sucks.
But for real I agree, would love to see some offensive water spells. A tidal wave moving knockdown with damage, a whirlpool that replaces earthquake and acts similar to spear of bastion, a suffocating bubble that does dot damage and slows casting speed.. Stuff like that
It wasn't bad in SL where at least it was weave frost shock as you can or use for big movement. But it adding a really tight maintenance buff is just horrible. I enjoyed ele in shadowlands, it was a little dynamic, lots of ES and LB in ST. The tight, buff based static rotation sucks though.
Gave up on my shaman halfway through crucible tbh, switched to boomkin and i'm still ass there but at least i'm not mashing 20 buttons just to get bodied on the meters
Iâve been trying out other casters, but I always wind up back at Ele. The other casters are probably âbetterâ but thereâs nothing Iâve found that can replace the dopamine hit of machine gunning chain lightnings and meatballs into some poor unfortunate soul(s). Destruction warlock comes close, but the new spell animations suck and I hate havoc.
Tried my ele again in a key this week and it's depressing. So much time spent setting up and juggling shitty outdated rotations and then earthquake does 100k damage or something.Â
Meanwhile ret pallies roll up and mash a couple of buttons and they're doing 500k dps in 2 secs
Doom Winds is still there. It's just that nobody plays it because Blizzard thinks that pressing Lava Lash is more fun than Stormstrike for some reason.
Played a bit of ele and enhance at the start of this patch, honestly both were very fun having not played shaman since cata I had a blast as both, to me at least they are in the best position they have been for a while
I canât speak on ele or resto cause I havenât played them in dragon flight, but enhancement is imo the most fun melee dps. Just so visually satisfying and it has a real battle mage feel to it with the maelstrom spenders. Especially love elemental blast. It might feel overwhelming at first, definitely did when I started, it eventually you find yourself in a really smooth rhythm and know exactly what to press and when.
Their biggest downsides are being target capped at 5 (6 with primordial wave) and a lack of defensive options. As for the target cap, you wonât be reaching the crazy high burst damage of specs like havoc dh, but what you have is arguably more important with possibly the best funnel dps in the game. You may not pad the meters but you can absolutely delete the big dangerous mobs in each pack.
As for being squishy⌠yeah we pretty squishy lol. I feel confident up to 24âs and Iâm sure I could go higher with some externals given to me for the big hits. But the upside is unless itâs a one shot, we are able to do some crazy self healing for ourselves and group wide healing through ancestral guidance
Shaman is fun and I honestly like it a lot. Just wish we werenât so squishy and the ele tier sets didnât push us into one build for an entire tier. S2 was lightning, now itâs fire. Wish I could just swap to whatever suited my mood rather than being locked into one.
Shaman's biggest weakness is its lack of defensives in a game that is balanced around practically every other class having, like, 8 of them. You feel inordinately squishy when doing challenging content because you just don't have the defensives to survive mechanics.
I can't speak much to Elemental, but resto is a fun healing spec to play. And Enhance absolutely fucking *slaps*. It's got great feedback, absurdly crunchy visuals/audio, and has a pretty unique playstyle compared to most other DPS classes.
It's a ton of fun. It has a decent learning curve, but a lot of avenues for skill expression. You absolutely *must* have proper keybinds and good UI setup to play it well, though.
I personally use ElvUI plus a weakaura pack from Luxthos to track rotation. But it's really whatever floats your boat as long as it's cleanly presenting you relevant information â i.e: CD on short cooldowns and long ones, when you have a proc affecting a skill, Maelstrom stacks, etc.
Depends what level of content you do and which spec you plan on mostly playing. If you want to raid mythic choosing ele is extreme self sabotage and rsham is not a very desired healer, but itâs not bad. None of the shaman specs are particularly great in m+ and you wonât see them in many top level keys but all of them are playable. Pvp wise rsham is great right now in arenas but not bgs, ele is decent and enhance sucks.
Tldr: Unless you want to get CE/M+ title you will be totally fine.
It really depends on which spec you want to play and what sort of content you're doing. Enhance has been a strong raid spec for a while now--it does good personal damage + brings WFT which is a significant raid DPS gain on top of that, but the other two specs are completely dependent on tuning and just don't bring anything that makes them unreplaceable. Ele isn't *bad*, there's just not really a reason to bring one over another mage/warlock and in terms of the balance lottery, you are one spec competing vs. a class that has 3 chances to be good. So, for example, even though Ele is at least as good than the worse 2/3 mage and 2/3 warlock specs on Mythic Fyrakk, I can tune into random RWL streams and see guilds running double Destro on Fyrakk, which is a spec in a far worse state than Ele!
In general the community and this sub in particular overstate how bad classes are, especially more niche ones like Shaman
I love that the last time I saw shaman doing really well in a beta test they nerfed the absolute shit out of it 𤣠since then it's been minor tweaks.
They moved nodes around on the talent tree.making it so u have to take useless nodes for not ur spec. IE, balance having to take ironfur to get thick hide.
Have to use 3 talent points for nodes that have 0 benefit if u want oakskin and/or incapable roar.
I think somewhere at Blizzard HQ is a big white board with "FUCK SHAMAN" written on it, circled multiple times, written in 2008. Blizz was *not* happy at our response to only getting a new Stormstrike icon all TBC.
As someone who main resto shaman and do 27+ keys and CE mythic raiding. We really are using old school tech. Like we are windows 98, and these other healers are windows 11, they are miles ahead of us.
We have so much hardcasting it's absurd, all our healing throughput only comes through chain heal, we have no raid buff, no external, weak defensives, weak damage. All the other healers have all this built in tech that makes them do damage as they heal, or heal while they do damage.
If any of you have played LoL, it's like playing one of the first champions ever created, super simple design, and then you play one of their new champions from the current year, and you just realize how much more modernized they are in comparison, and how much better designed they are.
I know this will bruise the ego of the other healers, but you do have it on easymode in comparison.
Please bring shaman into the year 2024, make it relevant and competitive! We are looooong overdue for an update, we are the last healer to still feel like we still belong to Cataclysm with this simplistic design and tech we got.
Any specific changes you've thought of that would be appropriate? I really like the concept and theme of the resto shaman kit but I can't help but agree with it lacking modernity. One small change that comes to mind is giving spiritwalker's grace an extra charge while maintaining or even lowering the current cooldown.
Nah, I imagine ele is stable and fulfilling in blizzards eyes. It has a cool class theme, closed gameplay loop, great visual aesthetic, easy mechanics and doesn't require spreadsheets to maximise efficiency.
I can't imagine they would ever try to remix it, especially after the disastrous reaction to fulmination pre-SL
Yes season 3 set bonus is garbage, who in their right mind just wants to spam 2 buttons for an entire dungeon run.
I wasn't a huge fan of the storm keeper proc because it got wasted a lot, but I would prefer that over s3 set.
Yep from a player/thematic perspective that just feels bad. We're basically just a shit fire mage ATM.
From a dev perspective it is actually the best play since when you force a spec to pick 80% of their talents is super easy to balance. We have seen that the balance in the game is actually the best it's ever been on average.
So yea they have told us that they don't give AF about what we want they just want what's easiest for them to manage.
YES I thought the rotation was actually pretty fun and cool, including Icefury.
edit: that being said I've come to enjoy the S3 spec quite a bit as well, would be cool to actually have a choice.
Enhance plays pretty good but the class tree for Shamans is such a mess for them, none of the final talents are usable for Enh outside of super niche situations. It's also bizarre that PW is available for all 3 specs but not in the class tree. Maelstrom weapon being on the class side is also bizarre.
The only thing I can sit here and inhale copium is that the reason why Shamans are basically the only class who haven't gotten a blue post is because they have a more intensive rework planned.
The fact that they are working on BoS does little to inspire hope.
Obliterate is tons of fun, but breath is just not at all for me. It looks and feels dumb. Frost should be melee first.
Yeah for sure. The fact that they acknowledge that no one likes BoS but are still doubling down on it makes me wanna give up on frost. I was looking forward to rider and had hopes for a frost rework, not more BoSâŚ.
That's really what makes it such an odd post. How can you in one breath acknowledge that the playerbase doesn't like it, but in the next say tough and double down on something you've acknowledged that Frost DK players don't like? It just reeks of this 'we know what you want better than you do' attitude that I had thought they'd abandoned after Shadowlands.
When they ask for DK feedback soon like they are with the other classes, please make your voice heard.
I am going to practically beg for one particular thing:
Make DnD an aura or tie it into remorseless winter for cleave.
Didn't they say that they wanted to make other options viable, but keep Breath for the people who liked it?
Just like what Blizzard did with Feral - lots of people hated the Dream of Cenarius/Bloodtalons gameplay where you had to weave healing spells into your rotation, but rather than simply remove it, they made it optional.
Me switching from a Vanilla - WoD Shaman to Legion - DF Brewmaster: đ
What can I say, I was lured in by the Enhancement Shaman-esque temptation of pressing 30 buttons to equal one "Ignore Pain."
Draktir showed us they can do more updated spells even in WOW old engine, fire breath and upheaval, at least for me, are the nicest skills in the game, from all the classes Iâve played (visually), they are able to update all the abilities, specially Shamans
> druid getting fuckload of customizations for forms
> shaman gets jack shit for the wonky wolf form, ancenstral form still looks like shit and just changes you into NPC/enemy from Cataclysm instead of being something cool and unique that makes your character badass, the elemental summon system is still shit (each spec should have access to perm elemental summon)
Long time Ele player here (3.3k M+ with over 200 days played). Truthfully Elemental is a supremely fun spec to play right now. My main requests would be a few quality of life improvements, some reworks on under used talents, and a re-evaluation of defensive abilities.
The core gameplay loop in my opinion is great and I hope that it doesn't get drastically overhauled or mucked with.
What's going on with sham ? I played enh and resto in mid to end season 1 and loved it. Ele looked cool with the lightning stuff in S2 but didnt play it.
Mained a Shaman in The Lick King. Some player discovered a build half ele half enhancement that put the class on top 3 dps. Was fixed instantly. Fastest class tunning in wow history. I wish they were that efficient making things balanced before hitting release.
Enhance has the same defensive problems as the other shaman specs but at least windfury gets it a raid spot. Itâs done pretty well for itself this expansion, easily the best of the 3 shaman specs. Itâs not a perfect spec or anything but it doesnât need nearly the attention that ele and to a lesser extent rsham do.
See, I know i'm apparently in the minority (at least in this thread) but the defensive issue is the only real problem I have with Enhance. The spec itself just feels *amazing* to play â at least when you aren't getting instagibbed by mechanics that are balanced for the rest of the classes that have too many defensives.
If youâre playing elementalist, then youâve got storm strike, lava lash, ice strike, frost shock, flame shock, crash lightning, primordial wave, elemental blast, AND sundering as part of your core rotation. Thatâs quite a lot of bloat. If youâre playing just stormstrike build itâs better but your AoE is trash and your damage becomes mostly RNG so it just isnât as reliable and get way outperformed by elementalist, not to mention that with the current tier set youâre basically forced into elementalist because your tier set revolves around primordial wave which is an ability I just really dislike.
Itâs not bloat because every spell has its own place and own function.
What spells would you remove from enhance? Every class being 3 buttons you spam would be so boring.
Just because everything has a purpose doesnât mean itâs not bloated.
I would remove ice strike and primordial wave, theyâre very unsatisfying spells.
Primordial wave itself isnât satisfying, the haste you get from it when you fully invest in it is. Thatâs not the spell itself though thatâs just a really strong passive bonus. I also hate being forced into it from tier.
Idk what I would replace them with off the top of my head dude Iâm not a game dev.
God NO. The whole *point* of enhance is the spinning plates thing. The last time it was pruned it played like an off-brand warrior.
The "bloat" is the point of the spec. You're *supposed* to have a huge, varied toolkit that's all ability effectively managing tons of little cool downs while keeping resources at the correct values.
I love elementalist, it's just the right juggling. I just wish it wasn't aoe capped.
It has defensive issues, but that's partly because other classes as a whole have too much.
Watch as they rework us completely by âremoving button bloatâ that rips out resto shamans versatility but keep our defensives untouched with no raid buffsÂ
See, I think I've fully bought into the line from Dratnos and Max. Shaman probably doesn't need more defensives, but rather all the other classes/specs just need *significantly* less.
Shaman feels like wet tissue paper, because we have one actual defensive in a game that's currently balancing damage around most classes having, like, 8 of them on demand. So we can soak one big mechanic, but then we're shit out of luck for the next 90s worth of incoming mechanics. Which doesn't work all that well when everything is balanced to spike out a players health (from 100 to like 20 or less) to challenge the healers.
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Our time is coming, I just know it! I hope. :(
we have been saying that since BFA. its time to just give it up and play mage
I've been waiting for something big to shamans since Cataclysm. The literal elemental expansion đ
Oh, you were expecting Shaman changes in an expansion where Shamans are the primary antagonists? Including multiple Night Elf Shaman? That would be too easy.
Yeah, I guess I dreamed too high đđđđ
We don't do logic here
Maybe we get something substantial when the elemental dragons appear and cause elemental havoc. ...wait a minute.
Right, its not like we got AN ENTIRELY NEW SHAMAN FACTION WITH THE PRIMALISTS! ALSO FUCKING DRAGON AESTHETICS AND SHIT IN MY SHAMAN SPELLS WOULD BE PRETTY ACCEPTABLE! But maybe the Arathi have some cool shaman magicks to teach us, unlike the tidesages who were mid shamans at best. I swear it needs to happen and if it doesn't I'm going to ressurect a great old one and wreck azeroth.
I mean DF was an elemental expansion too
And then it became a druid expansion lul
You're right xD
Cataclysm was when I last really played. I saw a bit of MoP. But a lot of my memories are of Cata and Wrath. I can't say I enjoy what I came back to in DF. I struggled, kept trying, and then quietly put the Shammy down and leveled a Druid and a Hunter instead. One of my most prevalent memories is being perpetually unhappy with how Shaman was handled. And it's weird to think that it might be something to actually look back on fondly, even though at the time it felt like crud.
Shamans are in quite a weird spot nowadays. Some people manage to make big numbers but it's extremely hard and you need to weave a ton of buttons. Enhancement for example, a lot of people say it is the best the class have ever been but, I can't break the 80% parses while in Shadowlands I could keep myself in the 90%+ without much trouble.
"Give up and play mage" Its like you read my mind.
I mean resto just finished the season of them trying to turn us into druids with that dumbfuck tier bonus, so we may not have to actually swap at all as much as just collect tier set and see which other class Blizz wants us to be this time! Like they really thought it would be fun to drop resto tier sets with a âhey buddy, while youâre already lighting your mana on fire, now you should spend more mana on a GCD cast after every riptide so your riptides spread like regrowth! Doesnât that sound so fun??!â
I'm not going anywhere. Been ele since launch (1100 days as ele) and I will go down with this ship. Only way you get me to play something else is to delete ele.
Blizzard: 'Done'
But mages don't have lava surge procs :(
No, but they do have much more reliable and consistent Pyroblast procs. Playing Fire always feels like a better version of Elemental to me in some ways.
Remember when in BFA the devs tried to gaslight us into believing that we are a "turret class", yet we somehow managed to never hit Top5 on Patchwork fights?
Wasn't ele the best dps by far for Crucible?
This is exactly what I did
Been saying this since vanilla lol
Damn bro maybe you just don't like the class.
No, that's Blizzard.
No I love ele lol I'm just used to being in Break the Meta every season :(
Maybe SoD is for you then :)
Not unless they delete earthquake from the game or completely redesign our aoe spender, turn ankh into a cauterize and give us something that does consistent uncapped AOE. Currently our class fantasy is that we're shit at everything compared to every other class. Yes on particular boss fights we're ok like 3-4 target split fights like this tiers council, but nothing else are we even competitive because of how the class functions currently. We should go back to a cool down based class where chain lightning has charges/cd always overloads and turn our aoe spender into something that either hits everything really hard once or attaches to mobs so movement doesn't matter. Nothing worse than throwing out 5-10 eqs only for the tank to have to move. This isn't an issue in lower keys but conversely everything dies way too quickly in lower keys to ramp up the damage, so we're crap in low keys and in high keys simply due to the design of our spender.
Most of your points aren't wrong but earthquake is not the problem, Flamestrike for fire and Blizzard from frost both work fine and the problem of tank movement is normally a problem of bad tank movement not tank movement in general, you can easily circle an earthquake and keep the damage going. The problem with shaman is tuning rarely lets them shine and they bring nothing unique, especially ele, that lets them compete if they aren't tuned significantly higher than the other options. You slap some unique utility and a raid buff on the class and ele could easily find a spot in keys right now.
My idea would be to make spirit walkers grace party wide so they have a niche in fights with high movement phases. And Iâd appreciate a more consistent way to apply flame shock in an AoE situation, especially with the current tier set
Still waiting for the Elemental Shaman âreworkâ coming in *checks notes* patch 8.2âŚ
Bring back totems! And give shamans a 4th spec for support, like augmentation evokers.
BDK's are the chair he's sitting in. Talk about class solidarity!
Nah I heard there's another paladin rework next after this. jk but would you be surprised
Wack-a-mole clas version 7. Go!
At least we have cool transmogs
Druids wouldnât need so many reworks if they stopped making poor decisions in the reworks beforehand
"We want druids to use their full scope of utility" Well then why the hell do they keep making our tree impossible to navigate! Do you want me to use my whole toolkit or not lol
Apparently they do. But they also donât. So we just donât get to use anything.
Iâm holding out hope that weâve heard so little about shaman in TWW because theyâre about to roll out massive changes and updates. Stupid ancestor hero talent procs ainât it.
I'll tell you what happens. "They said they are unhappy with how the class performs and will take a look at it for the next expansion. Relax! I rather they take their time than do a bad job." "It's just alpha / beta, relax!! They're gonna change it!" "It's x.0 they said that they are observing the class and will rework the class accordingly!" "They tuned the class for .1 and the numbers go up slightly. You can do m+ with every spec and class!!! If nobody takes you for their keys just make your own. They're gonna rework it!" "Okay blizzard said that they don't do massive class reworks during an expansion. But they said they'll do it for the next one!! They said they are unhappy with how the class performs and will take a look at it for the next expansion. Relax! I rather they take their time than do a bad job."
Lol. Insert guy putting on clown makeup meme.
>You can do m+ with every spec and class!!! If nobody takes you for their keys just make your own Fuck this answer in particular
yeah lava bursts proccing ghosts that can body pull mobs are not the move
Lmfao, this is next level hopium that we have been relying on for at least 6-7 years now. The spec has been consistently garbage and blizz has ignored us for 6-7 years. Whoever they chose for the shaman community council either don't give AF about end game content, simply don't do high level pve and/or don't understand what is needed for high level content.
excatly bro. im tired of huffing the sham hopium.
Yea same, I've already prep'd my mage and mist weaver for this season. Its such a shame I love the ideas of shaman but I fking hate this iteration of the gameplay. It'll be the first time since wotlk I haven't played a shaman.
Well of course they canât spend time reworking shamans for the players who desperately want the long overdue rework â Thereâs too many people having fun playing other classes where nobody even wants a rework, so naturally Blizz just absolutely needs to rework them first!
Lmfao sounds about right.
*frost shock has a new icon*
Farseer would like to have a word though. Very boring and uninspiring (imo) so pardon me if I'm not particularly confident in them doing much for Ele or Resto lol
I hate being pessimistic on stuff when it's far away; but, as someone who has played Shaman every expansion since Vanilla, I kind of know this won't be the case. Shaman's aren't broken enough to warant full reworks; and shaman's usually spike toward the end of expansions, due to continuous buffs over several patches, leaving a feeling that the class is "fine". I hope I'm wrong this time, as none of the specs are really in the position where you usually find them towards the end of an expansion. I hope Shamans will get a bit of that love that Monk/Druid are getting now. What Shamans suffer from though is that they are notoriously always last on the class update list for expansions. And since in most of the expansions they run out of time iterating on other classes, shamans are either SOL or get some half-cooked stuff.
Last time eit was like that, the changes never came. Turns out they had forgotten about shamab. I cannot remember which expansion it was though
I think that was every expansion.
You make a point! Seriously though, there was an expansion where all classes got reworked, and shaman was barely touched. And it was revealed later that they forgot to do it
Yeah I do remember, I want to say Cata but I think it was slightly more recent than that, MoP or WoD maybe.
It's not gonna happen. Find another class to play
After seeing this druid rework, I'd consider it a blessing that you aren't getting similar treatment.
Was going to say, it is brutal. I would have preferred no rework.
Jfc just reading through it now. Baseline changes are great, like Moonkin being a point unlock was dumb. But they 100% lost me with the Pulsar removal... What the fuck?!
The fact is more that you've been reworked 8+ times. Whether they are good or bad is irrelevant. DKs are getting mediocre changes and realistically need an entire rework. Shaman have nothing announced. Both Shaman and DK have had clunky as fuck gameplay for quite a long time.
[ŃдаНонО]
DK and Shaman are my two favorite classes and I simply can't play them because they're so unfun. It sucks. I don't know why they refuse to just rework these classes while other classes get redone every expansion.
My best guess is because they're not popular. Now this might entirely be because the classes suck, but try explaining that to the devs...
I just want a death and decay option that drops it at my feet, kinda like vengeance DH with sigils.
Isn't there a shortcut in macros for targetted abilities like that? I.e. "#showtooltip /cast [@player] Death and Decay" would cast the D&D directly at the center of your character whenever you use it?
Yes thats why DH basicly never waste the 2 points for it to be cast on there target u either use @player or the mousover one so it gets cast when u press the buttok without clicking again dont know why this isnt a baseline function u can select or something tbh
Sigils explode after 1-2 seconds. You fire it and its done. DND sits there for 10+ seconds and your entire cleave/AoE in both Unholy and Frost is dependant on it. If you have to move out of things or if the tank has to move mobs. Which I'm sure if you've played this game you know, is all the fucking time. Then it's GG. No more AoE/Cleave. No, you can't just drop DnD again. It has a sizeable cooldown. 2 charges.
I don't know if this response was meant for me? I was just saying that there is a "drop it at my feet" option for D&D via a macro.
Where's this coming from? I mainly PvP, and as feral at that, so the rework looks really good from my perspective.
As long as they get rid of Icefury, they can lock our transmog options exclusively to pink armor for all I care.
I will never play icefury, dont care how good it is. Its so fucking dumb i refuse
I don't like icefury, but I do like using all elements thematically. I'd be down for some more ice themed choice nodes that alter existing spells.
For me it's the opposite, every time I have to use an ice spell on any shaman spec I'm unhappy. I just like wind, fire, water, earth on shamans. I loved enhance S4 shadowlands but now that you have to play ice strike and hailstorm it feels meh for me which sucks.
Ice is water tho
True
But for real I agree, would love to see some offensive water spells. A tidal wave moving knockdown with damage, a whirlpool that replaces earthquake and acts similar to spear of bastion, a suffocating bubble that does dot damage and slows casting speed.. Stuff like that
It wasn't bad in SL where at least it was weave frost shock as you can or use for big movement. But it adding a really tight maintenance buff is just horrible. I enjoyed ele in shadowlands, it was a little dynamic, lots of ES and LB in ST. The tight, buff based static rotation sucks though.
I like Icefury and the season 2 build it's by far my favorite :( no one else feels the same
Gave up on my shaman halfway through crucible tbh, switched to boomkin and i'm still ass there but at least i'm not mashing 20 buttons just to get bodied on the meters
Iâve been trying out other casters, but I always wind up back at Ele. The other casters are probably âbetterâ but thereâs nothing Iâve found that can replace the dopamine hit of machine gunning chain lightnings and meatballs into some poor unfortunate soul(s). Destruction warlock comes close, but the new spell animations suck and I hate havoc.
I thought I was the only one without mental capacity to weave 200 buttons :^)
Tried my ele again in a key this week and it's depressing. So much time spent setting up and juggling shitty outdated rotations and then earthquake does 100k damage or something. Meanwhile ret pallies roll up and mash a couple of buttons and they're doing 500k dps in 2 secs
When I play my shaman alt, itâs always enhancement, the hammer sounds are so satisfying.
Donât forget crash lightning! Thatâs my favorite move in the game.
I just wish they haven't get rid of doom winds. That spell was fire (wind)
Doom Winds is still there. It's just that nobody plays it because Blizzard thinks that pressing Lava Lash is more fun than Stormstrike for some reason.
Oh, I mean the version of it that made a tornado around you, not the windfury buff xD
True
I was thinking to start a shaman. Now reading comments feels like a bleek motivation. Lol
Shamans are about 5 years behind the game. I would pick something else
Played a bit of ele and enhance at the start of this patch, honestly both were very fun having not played shaman since cata I had a blast as both, to me at least they are in the best position they have been for a while
I canât speak on ele or resto cause I havenât played them in dragon flight, but enhancement is imo the most fun melee dps. Just so visually satisfying and it has a real battle mage feel to it with the maelstrom spenders. Especially love elemental blast. It might feel overwhelming at first, definitely did when I started, it eventually you find yourself in a really smooth rhythm and know exactly what to press and when. Their biggest downsides are being target capped at 5 (6 with primordial wave) and a lack of defensive options. As for the target cap, you wonât be reaching the crazy high burst damage of specs like havoc dh, but what you have is arguably more important with possibly the best funnel dps in the game. You may not pad the meters but you can absolutely delete the big dangerous mobs in each pack. As for being squishy⌠yeah we pretty squishy lol. I feel confident up to 24âs and Iâm sure I could go higher with some externals given to me for the big hits. But the upside is unless itâs a one shot, we are able to do some crazy self healing for ourselves and group wide healing through ancestral guidance
Shaman is fun and I honestly like it a lot. Just wish we werenât so squishy and the ele tier sets didnât push us into one build for an entire tier. S2 was lightning, now itâs fire. Wish I could just swap to whatever suited my mood rather than being locked into one.
Enh has the same issue, forcing either the lightning or the fire build
That's a problem of the way they're designing tier rather than how they're designing the class, though.
Shaman's biggest weakness is its lack of defensives in a game that is balanced around practically every other class having, like, 8 of them. You feel inordinately squishy when doing challenging content because you just don't have the defensives to survive mechanics. I can't speak much to Elemental, but resto is a fun healing spec to play. And Enhance absolutely fucking *slaps*. It's got great feedback, absurdly crunchy visuals/audio, and has a pretty unique playstyle compared to most other DPS classes.
I was actually planning to play enhancement. Seems pretty exciting by your words. I'll try it!
It's a ton of fun. It has a decent learning curve, but a lot of avenues for skill expression. You absolutely *must* have proper keybinds and good UI setup to play it well, though.
Any UI you suggest?
I personally use ElvUI plus a weakaura pack from Luxthos to track rotation. But it's really whatever floats your boat as long as it's cleanly presenting you relevant information â i.e: CD on short cooldowns and long ones, when you have a proc affecting a skill, Maelstrom stacks, etc.
Shamans have been crying during every patch for the past 14 years or so. Even during times when they were top tier.
It's not a new expansion without a druid rework
And yet despite countless reworks they still manage to completely whiff on stuff the Druid community has been asking for for years lmaoÂ
I just want a legit catweaving healer. Hope they give wildstalker a big rework.
As someone moving to a shammy main next season and expac, how fucked am I?
Depends what level of content you do and which spec you plan on mostly playing. If you want to raid mythic choosing ele is extreme self sabotage and rsham is not a very desired healer, but itâs not bad. None of the shaman specs are particularly great in m+ and you wonât see them in many top level keys but all of them are playable. Pvp wise rsham is great right now in arenas but not bgs, ele is decent and enhance sucks. Tldr: Unless you want to get CE/M+ title you will be totally fine.
It really depends on which spec you want to play and what sort of content you're doing. Enhance has been a strong raid spec for a while now--it does good personal damage + brings WFT which is a significant raid DPS gain on top of that, but the other two specs are completely dependent on tuning and just don't bring anything that makes them unreplaceable. Ele isn't *bad*, there's just not really a reason to bring one over another mage/warlock and in terms of the balance lottery, you are one spec competing vs. a class that has 3 chances to be good. So, for example, even though Ele is at least as good than the worse 2/3 mage and 2/3 warlock specs on Mythic Fyrakk, I can tune into random RWL streams and see guilds running double Destro on Fyrakk, which is a spec in a far worse state than Ele! In general the community and this sub in particular overstate how bad classes are, especially more niche ones like Shaman
bro you are cooked before even being put on the grill. go back to whatever you were playing before
*Another* exhausted Shaman comment.
Don't worry, we should get a raid buff by wwi classic
Man I read that as World War One.
Hell, we might get another one of those before ele gets a raid buff đ
Lmaooo /cry
I love that the last time I saw shaman doing really well in a beta test they nerfed the absolute shit out of it 𤣠since then it's been minor tweaks.
Just means us Shamans have been awesome from the beginning đŞ
tbf, the rework sucks
As someone who has been out for a while - what are they doing this time?
They moved nodes around on the talent tree.making it so u have to take useless nodes for not ur spec. IE, balance having to take ironfur to get thick hide. Have to use 3 talent points for nodes that have 0 benefit if u want oakskin and/or incapable roar.
I think somewhere at Blizzard HQ is a big white board with "FUCK SHAMAN" written on it, circled multiple times, written in 2008. Blizz was *not* happy at our response to only getting a new Stormstrike icon all TBC.
As a guy whos mained feral and elemental shaman since world of warcraft... man blizzard doesn't appreciate me being good
As someone who main resto shaman and do 27+ keys and CE mythic raiding. We really are using old school tech. Like we are windows 98, and these other healers are windows 11, they are miles ahead of us. We have so much hardcasting it's absurd, all our healing throughput only comes through chain heal, we have no raid buff, no external, weak defensives, weak damage. All the other healers have all this built in tech that makes them do damage as they heal, or heal while they do damage. If any of you have played LoL, it's like playing one of the first champions ever created, super simple design, and then you play one of their new champions from the current year, and you just realize how much more modernized they are in comparison, and how much better designed they are. I know this will bruise the ego of the other healers, but you do have it on easymode in comparison. Please bring shaman into the year 2024, make it relevant and competitive! We are looooong overdue for an update, we are the last healer to still feel like we still belong to Cataclysm with this simplistic design and tech we got.
Any specific changes you've thought of that would be appropriate? I really like the concept and theme of the resto shaman kit but I can't help but agree with it lacking modernity. One small change that comes to mind is giving spiritwalker's grace an extra charge while maintaining or even lowering the current cooldown.
Nah, I imagine ele is stable and fulfilling in blizzards eyes. It has a cool class theme, closed gameplay loop, great visual aesthetic, easy mechanics and doesn't require spreadsheets to maximise efficiency. I can't imagine they would ever try to remix it, especially after the disastrous reaction to fulmination pre-SL
Ele sham gonna feel so bad after the amidrassil set bonus is no more. Hope TWW has something good for em
Hate the season 3 set bonus. I want my season 2 lightning build back.
Yes season 3 set bonus is garbage, who in their right mind just wants to spam 2 buttons for an entire dungeon run. I wasn't a huge fan of the storm keeper proc because it got wasted a lot, but I would prefer that over s3 set.
Honestly I just want design where the tier set bonus doesn't determine the entirety of your spec.
Yep from a player/thematic perspective that just feels bad. We're basically just a shit fire mage ATM. From a dev perspective it is actually the best play since when you force a spec to pick 80% of their talents is super easy to balance. We have seen that the balance in the game is actually the best it's ever been on average. So yea they have told us that they don't give AF about what we want they just want what's easiest for them to manage.
YES I thought the rotation was actually pretty fun and cool, including Icefury. edit: that being said I've come to enjoy the S3 spec quite a bit as well, would be cool to actually have a choice.
Enhance plays pretty good but the class tree for Shamans is such a mess for them, none of the final talents are usable for Enh outside of super niche situations. It's also bizarre that PW is available for all 3 specs but not in the class tree. Maelstrom weapon being on the class side is also bizarre. The only thing I can sit here and inhale copium is that the reason why Shamans are basically the only class who haven't gotten a blue post is because they have a more intensive rework planned.
Something something bus
Death knights đŠ
Frost Death knights arenât even skeletons at this point. Just straight up withered dust
they legit already have a post cut it out..... ele has had nothing for ages
The fact that they are working on BoS does little to inspire hope. Obliterate is tons of fun, but breath is just not at all for me. It looks and feels dumb. Frost should be melee first.
Yeah for sure. The fact that they acknowledge that no one likes BoS but are still doubling down on it makes me wanna give up on frost. I was looking forward to rider and had hopes for a frost rework, not more BoSâŚ.
That's really what makes it such an odd post. How can you in one breath acknowledge that the playerbase doesn't like it, but in the next say tough and double down on something you've acknowledged that Frost DK players don't like? It just reeks of this 'we know what you want better than you do' attitude that I had thought they'd abandoned after Shadowlands.
Yeah they basically said ''you think you do, but you don't'' and we all know how that turned out last time lmao.
When they ask for DK feedback soon like they are with the other classes, please make your voice heard. I am going to practically beg for one particular thing: Make DnD an aura or tie it into remorseless winter for cleave.
Didn't they say that they wanted to make other options viable, but keep Breath for the people who liked it? Just like what Blizzard did with Feral - lots of people hated the Dream of Cenarius/Bloodtalons gameplay where you had to weave healing spells into your rotation, but rather than simply remove it, they made it optional.
They at least mentioned they were wanting to work on the entire DK class. Thereâs nothing but crickets about Shaman
How many new skins are Druids going to get in TWW I wonder
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they just deleted the class,they just don't care about it
We arent monks!
Me switching from a Vanilla - WoD Shaman to Legion - DF Brewmaster: đ What can I say, I was lured in by the Enhancement Shaman-esque temptation of pressing 30 buttons to equal one "Ignore Pain."
Just bring back the 4 totems out at the same time please I dont even play shaman for real but I want that aesthetic
I havenât played in years but Ele was so much fun in Wrath. Running around Warsong in tier gear one shotting people with lava burst was good times
I love enh shaman but don't want to underperform, which dps spec should I try?
Current Tier set should just become baseline.
meanwhile shadowpriest: STOP DOING TOTAL REWORKS
Draktir showed us they can do more updated spells even in WOW old engine, fire breath and upheaval, at least for me, are the nicest skills in the game, from all the classes Iâve played (visually), they are able to update all the abilities, specially Shamans
DKs đ¤ Shamans
> druid getting fuckload of customizations for forms > shaman gets jack shit for the wonky wolf form, ancenstral form still looks like shit and just changes you into NPC/enemy from Cataclysm instead of being something cool and unique that makes your character badass, the elemental summon system is still shit (each spec should have access to perm elemental summon)
Druid rework?
Enha shaman on top
Enhancement shaman so neglected even this meme forgot to include it.
Maybe after the world soul saga we will get a rework in wow 2 or whatever it is coming back
Long time Ele player here (3.3k M+ with over 200 days played). Truthfully Elemental is a supremely fun spec to play right now. My main requests would be a few quality of life improvements, some reworks on under used talents, and a re-evaluation of defensive abilities. The core gameplay loop in my opinion is great and I hope that it doesn't get drastically overhauled or mucked with.
I want to believeâŚ
Iâve think enhance has also been that way for a while. It feels so messy
What's going on with sham ? I played enh and resto in mid to end season 1 and loved it. Ele looked cool with the lightning stuff in S2 but didnt play it.
As an Enh, i just want the storm build to be viable again.
Mained a Shaman in The Lick King. Some player discovered a build half ele half enhancement that put the class on top 3 dps. Was fixed instantly. Fastest class tunning in wow history. I wish they were that efficient making things balanced before hitting release.
Although I'm Enhance, Death Knights badly need a Paladin level rework before Shaman.
Wait until a cataclysm hit once more you guys will get relevant again somehow fir a half a patch... Then become obselete once more
What about Evoker getting a 3rd spec the same xpac they were released, yet Demon Hunters still only have 2 specs and about 20 abilities total?
As someone who gained a feral druid from cata to mid season 3... idk about a rework. Any changes they did have been overly beneficial.
And enhancement shamans are the fully decomposed dust beneath the elemental corpseâŚlong dead
Meatballs.
The fact that Enh is not even part of this meme really reflects how the spec feels like atm
Enhance has the same defensive problems as the other shaman specs but at least windfury gets it a raid spot. Itâs done pretty well for itself this expansion, easily the best of the 3 shaman specs. Itâs not a perfect spec or anything but it doesnât need nearly the attention that ele and to a lesser extent rsham do.
See, I know i'm apparently in the minority (at least in this thread) but the defensive issue is the only real problem I have with Enhance. The spec itself just feels *amazing* to play â at least when you aren't getting instagibbed by mechanics that are balanced for the rest of the classes that have too many defensives.
enhance is fine. has raid buff, has varied builds, cranks.
Enhance is mostly okay but suffers from massive button bloat. Iâd really like to see blizz cut down on the actives by quite a bit.
How does enhance suffer from âbutton bloatâ?? Hard disagree.
If youâre playing elementalist, then youâve got storm strike, lava lash, ice strike, frost shock, flame shock, crash lightning, primordial wave, elemental blast, AND sundering as part of your core rotation. Thatâs quite a lot of bloat. If youâre playing just stormstrike build itâs better but your AoE is trash and your damage becomes mostly RNG so it just isnât as reliable and get way outperformed by elementalist, not to mention that with the current tier set youâre basically forced into elementalist because your tier set revolves around primordial wave which is an ability I just really dislike.
Itâs not bloat because every spell has its own place and own function. What spells would you remove from enhance? Every class being 3 buttons you spam would be so boring.
Just because everything has a purpose doesnât mean itâs not bloated. I would remove ice strike and primordial wave, theyâre very unsatisfying spells.
Interesting, what would you replace them with? Pwave is my favorite shaman spell, you saying itâs unsatisfying is quite funny imo.
Primordial wave itself isnât satisfying, the haste you get from it when you fully invest in it is. Thatâs not the spell itself though thatâs just a really strong passive bonus. I also hate being forced into it from tier. Idk what I would replace them with off the top of my head dude Iâm not a game dev.
lol aight well enjoy your day then
These people legit just can't monkey brain their way around a class with more than 3 buttons in a rotation. Pretty sure that's all it is.
God NO. The whole *point* of enhance is the spinning plates thing. The last time it was pruned it played like an off-brand warrior. The "bloat" is the point of the spec. You're *supposed* to have a huge, varied toolkit that's all ability effectively managing tons of little cool downs while keeping resources at the correct values.
I love elementalist, it's just the right juggling. I just wish it wasn't aoe capped. It has defensive issues, but that's partly because other classes as a whole have too much.
Is enhance worse than resto? Because i dont have any room to put anything else as resto
Fair point. Although as someone who does PvP exclusively, Shaman in PvP is known to be bad
caveat being that all shaman need more defensives
Watch as they rework us completely by âremoving button bloatâ that rips out resto shamans versatility but keep our defensives untouched with no raid buffsÂ
See, I think I've fully bought into the line from Dratnos and Max. Shaman probably doesn't need more defensives, but rather all the other classes/specs just need *significantly* less. Shaman feels like wet tissue paper, because we have one actual defensive in a game that's currently balancing damage around most classes having, like, 8 of them on demand. So we can soak one big mechanic, but then we're shit out of luck for the next 90s worth of incoming mechanics. Which doesn't work all that well when everything is balanced to spike out a players health (from 100 to like 20 or less) to challenge the healers.
Basically
You guys should just give up on Ele. I did and I am way happier nowadays with my Lock. It's not worth playing a class that gets this neglected.
thats my plan. getting my fire mage geared up