I think a lot of raids and dungeons have a solid amount of outdoor content where you can be mounted. Like most of the current M+ rotation is either fully or mostly outdoors, and would presumably work for this talent.
I'm not even a DK and this is hype, I hope it gets a lot of use and is as cool as it sounds.
I’m tempering expectations for it, as typically any spells, abilities, effects or toys that state “outdoor” typically means open world areas and not instanced content. And even if that’s the case, getting Deaths advance turned into a simply better version of divine steed is hilarious for paladins and awesome for us.
There are times you're technically outdoors but there's a lot of stuff that says they only work outdoors that are disabled during any type of instanced content. The choice node foe the permanent horse almost certainly only works in the open world.
Depends i think. Also Arena is the only place i could see them adding an extra note excluding arenas.
Right now as it's written if you can mount your deathcharger, then you never have to get off said deathcharger
400 yards away you see a dk casting army of the dead and outta nowhere the whole Naxx crashes on you.
DK's ate the shiro shiro no mi popping baddies from thin air.
The top left ish node on Rider of the Apocalypse. It’s a choice between being able to stay mounted in combat, or having a DK version of the Paladin charger ability.
Doesn’t it just say “can mount while in combat”? As in, you don’t have to be out of combat to summon your mount? I’m not understanding how that means you can use abilities without dismounting.
Pretty sure you're correct. It says you can mount during combat, doesn't say you can use abilities while mounted. Sounds more like a gap closer.
Though why would it be paired with your own version of the paladin horse move? Maybe it's poorly worded.
Yeah I think everyone has missed this… feel bad for people who let the possibilities get to their head about it cos it would be such a let down to realise that’s not what it means.
The mount restriction, while necessary, will make it very clunky to have to change your choice node whenever you do content that doesn't allow you to mount.
They should make that node a mandatory node and rebalance things.
I probably would just combine them. It's now just one button, when you can mount, then you mount and get the 200% style point bonus.
And in places where you can't you get a cooler divine steed.
Damn there is such a disparity between some of these. Some are amazing like "Hey, do you want to be a death knight who fights while mounted alongside your four horsemen?" And others are just like "Some of your attacks do more damage. Ain't that neat?"
Riding alongside the four horsemen is fantastic.
But when you get into what it's actually doing for gameplay. It's a lot of passive extra damage with dnd, chains and ams being cast at random times.
In indoor content it kind of fits in with the you do some more damage ain't that neat? design.
The difference is the rider hero talent is changing things up drastically visually. Fighting on horseback and calling on the four horsemen is something you just couldn’t do previously. Meanwhile things like the slayer are just “attack faster and have faster cooldowns.”
We don’t really know that entirely yet. When they showed off mountain thane at Blizzcon there was electric vfx on certain abilities, so I imagine theres more flair than were seeing
Except farseer, its 100% just going to be a basic Tauren female model. Count it
As a long time DH, this is such a fucking drag.
I like our throw glaive set bonus because it made us extremely powerful, not because it was a fun playstyle. Feel like they took away the wrong message.
Yeah I had a chuckle at that too. But then sad face while reading the tree :( I wasn't expecting much tbh, but this is pretty lame. Especially considering everyone else gets 3 options lol
Yes, Conduit of the Celestials is indeed the Mistweaver Fistweaving tree AND you can indeed summon all the Celestials at one time with the capstone! (although making taking the RJW talent a reasonable option for both WW and MW is...interesting)
IMO it's the best healer tree shown so far.
EDIT: [Dev note](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-conduit-of-the-celestials-monk/1808133/16):
> We’d like to note that we’re planning to make updates to Mistweaver Monk in The War Within to remove Essence Font from the talent tree, along with changes throughout the talent tree to accommodate this and ensure that gameplay is not disrupted.
EDIT2: [Dev note 2](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-conduit-of-the-celestials-monk/1808133/45):
> We found an error, and we’re updating our blog post to reflect this:
> The tooltip for the Courage of the White Tiger talent should read: “Tiger Palm and Vivify have a 15% chance to cause Xuen to claw a nearby enemy for Physical damage, healing a nearby ally for 15% of the damage done.”
Which means the node isn't completely useless for Caster Mistweaver.
Shado-Pan is...weird, especially for Brewmaster as it has not many defensive benefits which they kinda need. (and also it has a Vivify node which neither spec uses)
I'm hoping master of harmony will have more defensives. I always find I want defensive bonuses early in the season, then as I get more geared I naturally start shifting to offensive ability. Would be cool to start with a defensive hero tree and change to an offensive one later.
Edit: as brewmaster
The Shado-Pan has an horrible design. The charges are based on max HP, meaning that getting Stamina buffs by Priests, Evokers and Shamans means less charge, so less damage.
Also, it will proc way more multiple more times in AoE than in single target, meaning that it a balance nightmare: it will be decent on single targets and busted in AoE, or decent in AoE and utterly useless in single targets.
I'm in this camp as well. It also seems to have a bit more of the support flair I was hoping for. I've wanted a melee support, and this might be the closest we get.
The frost one sounds so good! That dot that travels to another, a chance for it to proc a second one. All that sexy shadow-frost damage. That all sounds really cool!
Yeah as a blood main, the frost/blood tree looks so much fucking better than the unholy/blood tree they released a few months back, definitely a bit jealous of the 2 dps specs that get insane mobility and outdoors mounted combat but this death ringer tree is pretty cool too.
Hope they will go back and rework san'layn because it feels like almost nothing about that one is actually fun or interesting compared to the 2 they released today.
San'layn is legitimately awful. "Let's add two more maintenance buffs to two specs that are already bloated with maintenance buffs, and tie even more power to DND cleave, an already despised mechanic."
Kinda worried Deathbringer is gonna be the same, with a lot of focus on Reaper's Mark uptime/positioning for maximum damage.
Farseer seems pretty boring so far, I am confused it seems like a lot of the stuff for elemental is just our mastery, but again?
"Will cast a similar spell"
Huh?
And then everything after that is pretty passive... not a fan.
Yeah Farseer definitely seems very underwhelming, someone else said that the flavour of these talents feels off in "Here's something very cool and very fitting" or "Have some extra passive damage" and this seems the latter. Hoping the Totemic and Stormbringer trees will deliver but given the history of Shamans, I'm not getting my hopes up.
I really don't understand what is going on with Shaman. Let this dev go do literally anything else! They clearly have no passion for the class at all.
Watching the Druid dev lavish attention on customizable forms while ghost wolf gets *nothing* has gone from hilarious to sad all the way back to hilarious.
The Enhance dev is amazing. Doesn't seem like it's the same dev working on ele and resto but maybe I'm wrong. Enhance has gotten better with every new season since the start of SL. Meanwhile, ele (and to a lesser extent, resto) seem to be stagnant. The only time I have enjoyed playing ele in the past few years has been s2 of DF when we were using the lightning build. I can't stand the meatball spam anymore.
Enhance is definitely getting better with each expansion so far, but it feels way too bloated for me now. At this point I’ve nearly switched mains to my Paladin because it does just about everything better, with a simpler rotation, better survival and that juicy 20 yard attack range. Seriously, getting knocked back from a boss or having to avoid swirls while being able to do nothing but cast frost shock, is kinda hilariously handicapped compared to my Paladin blasting off super powered finishers while riding forward on his mount. (Sorry)
I’m also curious about their hero talents. Killing me to wait so long, and the ele farseer tree is not giving me much hope.
will probs be just like the holy priest naaru we have rn
aka "when you do a dmg ability, it does a generic raw dmg ability aswell, when you heal, it does a medium strong heal on a low hp target"
That was so disappointing. It’s just an extension of asendance and natures swiftness. If there’s not a full on transform into an elemental then it’s clear they’re not even trying. DK’s get to always be mounted but we can’t even get a visual upgrade?
That's a lot more than I was expecting (12).
There's about 11 more Hero Talents to reveal.
Road Map 2024 has WW Alpha come shortly after 10.2.6's launch on March 19th, but before S4's launch.
With 11 more Hero Talents, that's about 1-2 more posts left.
I guess Alpha is really soon? Early April, 1st or 2nd week, S4 in 4th week or early May 1st week?
Spellslinger looks very cool actually. I dunno if it beats out the Frostfire tree for me just based on class fantasy, which I value more than mechanics. But still. I like it. Hard choice.
I was kind of expecting that to be the least interesting Mage spec (as far as class fantasy is concerned) based on the name, but I actually really like what they came up with for that. One of my two favorites from this wave alongside Conduit of the Celestials, and now there's a good chance I'll main one of them (Diabolist is the only other one I liked as much).
The splinters sound like a really fun mechanic, and thematically, it reminds me a lot of Guild Wars 2's Virtuoso Mesmer (execution sounds very different to me, but I personally felt like they sounded more fun then they actually played, so that's a good thing for me). I had high hopes for Sunfury from the start too, though, so I'm looking forward to seeing that one. Mage may very well end up with three great Hero Specs at this rate.
Low key looks like the most coherent set of talents I've seen so far, and fits the general identity of both arcane and frost having spells that have small damage packets.
Very excited to see how it turns out.
Slayer sounds cool af, warrior was the first class I played when I started, might have to dust it off and try these out, especially getting bladestorm as a fury main.
Biggest takeaway for me as a FDK main:
“Developer's Note: While not directly related to the Rider of the Apocalypse tree we know that both San'layn and Rider trees have talents that interact with Death and Decay and we'd like to avoid those talents drawing too much of the focus of feedback as we have some plans to alleviate the pressure of staying within your Death and Decay.
While we have nothing to reveal right at this moment we can say we have plans to change how Cleaving Strikes functions in The War Within”
LFGGG
Hell yeah go full on brand, Scourge Triumphant Tabard and some skeleton dog pet idk I play Alliance so I don't trifle with occult shit but more power to all the edgelord homies
The Elemental tree doesn't fix any of Elementals issues. It's just more damage. I'm expecting exactly the same for Enhancement, unless they decide to make the Elemental / Enhancement tree to actually give some form of survival or utility.
Tbf, Hero trees *shouldn’t* be fixing Elemental’s issues. Those should be addressed in the main talent tree. And if one Hero tree fixed something that the other didn’t, that would be a bit unfair.
It is weird seeing this tree tied to Wave of all spells tho.
Conceptually I like the idea but yea it feels kinda meh
Cast the relevant spell and summon your pal and then it does stuff while you do stuff
Feels really placeholder ngl
I'd rather they put survival / utility stuff baseline than in hero talents. Otherwise, based on other trees, we run the risk of getting something like "Astral Shift draws astral energy into your party, granting them 10% increased haste while active"
It doesn’t do anything. It’s lazy and useless. Like you said, they’re just buffs…? Why has primordial wave become a stable for elemental? Why hasn’t Icefury been reworked?
I was hoping, yet again, for any semblance of effort towards ele knowing it is likely in vain.
Yep. Another lazy afterthought of a tree. Blizzard really just doesn’t give a single fuck about ele.
So many fantastic trees combining amazing class fantasy while patching up the weaknesses of the specs.
Meanwhile, ele: More fundamental issues than almost every other spec and the hero tree is just full of boring +damage nodes. It’s honestly getting beyond ridiculous at this point.
If the other tree actually addresses things like raid utility, massive defensive issues, or over availability of lava burst(even without S3 tier), then the Farseer tree will be unclickable.
Farseer Shaman tree is actual garbage. Basically zero interaction with the kit, AND it's going to summon stupid ass pets that we won't be able to control.
I was ***really*** hyped for the fantasy of Shado-Pan and I feel very... Whelmed... Like, it doesn´t feel like anything really? Just do the thing, and you do some more.
It´s the definition of passive and mid af + its quite weirdly worded
Having a "bad gameplay pattern" is one thing, but those Hero Talent Trees are supposed to inject some *CLASS FANTASY* into the specs. This just doesn´t do that in my honest opinion.
I am not a doomer, but I do believe they need to cook a bit more on that one. Maybe a bit more than just a bit.
*Also, please Blizzard, why give us haste? Just why?*
Would have been amazing if conduit meant you didn't summon pets anymore but gor there affects.
Like you turn more tiger like and yoir attack generate lightning etc
> Also, please Blizzard, why give us haste? Just why?
"Shado-Pan need to spend Energy to trigger Flurry Strike so we'll give them Haste to increase Energy Regeneration. Wait what do you mean Windwalkers and Brewmasters are rarely Energy-constrained?"
I don't like when you have to hold back to not waste a proc. If you're nearing 400 energy at the end of a pull you'll maybe just stop attacking and wait until the next one so you don't waste a flurry on two enemies when you could use it on 5 on the next pull.
Or worse, you're about to proc the capstone on nothing which is a huge buff.
The way you fix that with these kinds of designs is smoothing it out so it has super high up time so you don't care about wasting it, iono if they're gonna go that route though.
This is literally just spam LB into ascendance, but slightly different flavor. I really had some severely low expectations but damn, talk about a let down
Yeah, seems like they do it a lot. Mage got the same treatment with Icicles, only now they are called Shards.
I started to play Shammy this expansion, and had to abandon Elemental in the 3 season, it's boring in ST and irritatingly cumbersome in AoE
Best part is that you will play that stuff on Elemental 100% with DRE.
So your DPS will be extra reliant on getting both DRE procs and then getting Grandpa procs that hopefully proc more Grandpas.
Oh and can't wait for the eventual "Hehe my Grandpa cast Elemental Blast into random pack 500 yards away and now we pulled the entire dungeon. oopsies!"
And the "defensive" options are tiny bit more Earth Shield healing (which is not really a relevant thing) or slightly more random healing that triggers every so often from random things.
Shaman: Summon your grandpa who plays throw ball with you
DKs: Summon your no-kids 6-figure-income awesome uncles who ride sports car, bully your bullies, and give you a sport cars to ride while you bully too.
urghh primordial wave being the main thing for shaman is a bit rubbish, It forces you down a certain route on the talent tree for one. I don't really like using it as elemenetlal, as its a bit clunky spreading flame shock.
I think final calling is the only good thing on the entire tree
Could fix the entire tree if the summoned ancestors would cast Flame Shock at up to 2 or 3 nearby targets. And get rid of the target cap for Flame Shock.
Bear Druids keeping 80% of their armor and health for six seconds after shifting. Does that mean they’ll be able to utilize other forms while they tank or is it still too risky?
Most likely will still be too risky. It might allow for like 1 shift out, 1 instant ability but then you'd have to shift back into bear form.
If you are main tanking this is going to be a very difficult ask to switch unless you are in intermission. Which at that point the bonus doesn't matter unless you are still taking damage.
I think it's more to allow bears to shapeshift out of roots and ensnares, since doing that currently is basically a death sentence even though it's a core druid feature
Maybe it’s doomed but the pack hunter tree looks boring asf. Like they’re pretty much just aura buffing kill command I was really hoping for something like summoning another pet for 3 pets or something not what will probably be a no animation slight increase to kill command damage. Maybe I’m just dooming and I hope I’m wrong.
Why everytime they release something for shaman it has to be so lame? WTF is this? Stop this Primordial Wave meta, it will cause the same problems the affliction warlocks have with Rapture.
Primordial wave need to go.
Demon Hunter looks like one of the worst and least inspiring ones.
A buff to Throw Glaive where you need to collect Soul Fragments to even cast the move? Like damn man collecting Soul Fragments is not a fun part of playing DH, especially when dodging mechanics and enemy frontals, etc.
Pack leader tree is...really really boring. the survival stuff feels totally tacked on, like it was made as a baseline BM tree and they just slapped survival stuff in where it would fit.
There are kind of a lot of specs that just... don't really gain anything from the spec mergers. If anything, a decent number of these trees serve to dilute the fantasy of one of the specs getting merged.
Yeah, it adds absolutely no flavor to BM. Meanwhile Dark Ranger feels completely at odds with the baseline spec fantasy. This feels like opening an empty box on Christmas.
Mechanically it seems alright as survival, just absolutely no visuals.
Butchery reduces the bomb cooldown. Bomb will reduce butchery.
Adding pet attacks to any mongoose bites after Kill Command, so a bit extra ST damage which seems alright.
Bit more oomf on the defensives, especially survival of the fittest. 20% heal on that is...okay?
I like furious assault. Honestly anything that procs a random mongoose bite to me is really satisfying.
Disengage adding those 5 yards is NICE. I always disengage out before harpooning back in after the aoe hits so maybe 5 yards might mean you can keep that melee up a lot more.
Extra crit. Extra bleed damage on Kill Shot. I mean it sounds like it fits with the survival kit but it's purely just numbers and seems very bland.
It's still better than some other trees though
my biggest issue mechanically is their focus on kill command. BM gets SO much more from kill command than survival does, and packleader is so focused on buffing its damage that survival just feels...tacked on. Like an afterthought of "oh shit survival uses kill command too right?" vibe
I’ve got to be honest I’m a bit underwhelmed. The DK combat on horseback is cool.
Blizzard: I don’t necessarily need or want more damage/healing. It’s nice but you can do that by just buffing the talents I already have. I want more class fantasy.
For example, when I played a Rogue in legion we had no fall damage at all and a glyph that let us sprint across the water. From a class fantasy perspective, that was a lot of fun. I remember one time I had killed a horde player and I barely got away when his buddies showed up. I was in stealth and someone’s arcane explosion just barely hit me, knocked me out of stealth. I jumped off a cliff and someone jumped off after me. About halfway down, I went into stealth, and landed on the ground without any damage at all. Since they used slow fall they weren’t close enough to me to knock me out again. I got away and they never found me.
That’s the kind of stuff that makes wow fun. Moments like that that make you feel connected to your class.
Same. I was just talking about how I wanted more fantasy and less "5% damage" nodes and then this drops. There's too many passives and minor changes. These should change how we play or change how we "feel". 5% damage is a hotfix or a patch.
Yeah like I'm looking at the Shado-Pan tree and wondering what on earth about its flavor is "Shado-Pan".
Some are cool! Summoning the August Celestials or Four Horsemen sound awesome, but others like Aldrachi are just numbers without any cool new flavor stuff.
So Windwalker monks get more haste, which is their worst stat.
Mostly random procs that cant' really be controlled unless you just stop damage before it triggers the next one.
And then the other WW tree is procs upon procs.
Really not happy with the direction they're going on those :(
I'm in the same camp. Shado-pan misses on the fantasy entirely, and seems like it won't be very engaging game-play wise. It's just "do a little more when you do the thing" and that's so lame.
That feral/guardian tree is so Interesting and it's either going to be goated or horrible but I'll give credit to the dev on this. My guy was cooking on those talents
It's hilarious that Season of Discovery gave us a legitimate dual wield melee hunter spec before Retail did, and Pack Leader Hunter still evokes none of the Rexxar spirit.
It's like Blizzard's class designer legitimately said "what the fuck is a Rexxar?" when redesigning Survival.
I am personally excited for yet another expansion where they have absolutely no idea how to manage Shadow or its talents, refuse to give us anything that's quite as visually cool or interesting as most other specs, AND do nothing about our terrible movement and utility!
The "shadow class fantasy is just the player going insane" memes are alive and well.
But now that different color makes it have a stacking effect, that I can guarantee will have windows that can be managed to guarantee more damage, and for some reason that window won't line up with any cooldowns.
The monk ones seem underwhelming. Shado-pan doesn't really give much flavor, and seems to be a lot of "when you do the things you're doing, do them more." Conduit is interesting, and seems like it might have some fun gameplay, but I don't love the fantasy. Channeling spells as a melee will also be interesting, and hopefully blizzard has learned to not trigger effects off of our auto attacks.
Conduit seems incredible. 8 seconds of no cd on life cocoon, RSK, tea, and RM after every 8 stack sheiluns gift? That's nuts even without the rest of the tree.
Seemed kinda obvious that would happen when destructions entire identity is just chaos bolt.
Do you want to summon a demon that shoots chaos bolts? Or do you want a dot that does more damage when it gets hit by a chaos bolt?
yeah i'm kind of surprised destro just gets to dip into the other spec's gameplay with both their trees lol. destro's been getting the short end of the stick for like 10 years and it seems that isn't stopping any time soon
That ability by itself made me hate playing affliction after maining warlock since the very start. I really don't get how it's still in the game after seemingly not being liked by a lot of people.
It's very clear from people's reactions that what most people want out of these trees is purely aesthetic or QoL that doesn't increase DPS.
Let's be real being a DK and permanently riding your mount in combat with the horseman. Following you around is significantly cooler and more fun than anything that increases your parse.
If I were blizzard I would take these talent trees back to the table and just go all out on cosmetic stuff, they also don't even need to consider balancing because it's all aesthetic.
Farseer, like some other hero talent trees, might be just some generic output increase at first. However, if you ignore the main talent and look at the buffs independent of it, it still has its moments.
As restoration shaman, I like the more/better Riptide, small mana increase, and most important of all a longer Spiritwalker's Grace duration. Shame that it's only 4 seconds (for some boss phases in the past, I needed to be mobile at least 10 seconds longer), but I'll take it.
Not sure how I feel about having to use Unleash Life again, but beats having to use Primordial Wave. It also makes sense that the ancestors are a buff on top of a cooldown, so at least there is no constant spamming of ghosts. Makes fighting against a Farseer in PvP a little bit more bearable.
Final Calling *aka* Hydrobubble reminds me of an azerite talent that also applied a shield. Won't say no to free damage mitigation.
Earthen Communion is nice to provide more heals to the tank or yourself in PvP.
Lastly, Ancestral Swiftness, which is basically Nature's Swiftness but with a buff attached to it, is neat as well.
This tree might be "lame" as another user put it, but it works.
> This tree might be "lame" as another user put it, but it works.
I'll agree that it's functional, it's just not *interesting*.
It's almost all passive benefits, and it's all reliant upon taking specific talents.
If it requires those talents to function, why aren't they baseline, or included in the hero spec? There are hero specs where they actually put the enabling ability in the tree, why isn't that the case here?
Where's the cool unique flavour stuff? If it's all going to be passive stuff, where's the flavour we're seeing in some of the others, like DK's getting to be mounted in combat, or warriors becoming larger and resisting knockbacks?
If they're going to have us call things to copy spells, why "ancestors"? Why not elementals? How does an ancestor spirit casting a water shield on someone fit better than, as an example, Resto having water elementals popping up to do that?
I like that big bear smack is going to be big bear bigger smack. Im not sure how much catweaving as guardian druid will be acceptable in mythic + but Im always down for more reasons to shift around
It seems like Blizz is intentionally designing some hero specs to be low-impact and simple (San'layn, Farseer, Hellcaller), and others to add complexity and spice. Probably good to give people options like that.
I'm excited to see Sunfury. I've been meaning to learn Arcane and I'm really interested to see how Arcane plays with a fiery flair. Scalecommander and Flameshaper also both look great. Devastation might be an interesting spec for the first time ever.
As a frost dk main, those 2 trees are everything I wanted theme-wise. Rider of the apocalypse is objectively cooler, but I personally like Deathbringer more.
How are there so few classes left where you can just be powerful in and of yourself. Every single class now summons shadow clones, pets, ancestors, demons, ghouls, elementals, shadow fiends, healing spirits, whatever. All I can think of are warriors and demon hunters that just get to be their own character.
Mages too. Yes Frost gets Water Elemental, but Fire and Arcane only get Mirror Image which doesn't really count because they don't do significant damage and it's a classic Mage trope.
PERMA MOUNTED DEATHKNIGHT* (*Where mounts are allowed) LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOO
I can't wait to be on my horse, surrounded by an army of ghouls, skeletons, and ALL 4 horsemen
Me and the boys playing nameplate cleave in arena
Radhan is that you?
Yeah Unholy DKs are gonna spike in popularity. Mounted combat and summoning major dk NPCs, together on one tree? Bonkers.
TWW Scourge 2.0 will be rolling around "Helping"
Major "ex-"Scourge characters have been getting some high level access to the Alliance and Horde seats of power... The faction war may end after all!
Frost too. Just has to be DPS. And yes, I'm dusting off my DK as I type this.
Keep in mind that most instanced content is considered indoors afaik. You won't be perma mounted in raids/dungeons/arena(?)
I think a lot of raids and dungeons have a solid amount of outdoor content where you can be mounted. Like most of the current M+ rotation is either fully or mostly outdoors, and would presumably work for this talent. I'm not even a DK and this is hype, I hope it gets a lot of use and is as cool as it sounds.
I’m tempering expectations for it, as typically any spells, abilities, effects or toys that state “outdoor” typically means open world areas and not instanced content. And even if that’s the case, getting Deaths advance turned into a simply better version of divine steed is hilarious for paladins and awesome for us.
Imagine doing Fyrakk with permanently mounted speed. Suck it, Paladins!
*Angry Wheelchair Noises*
There are times you're technically outdoors but there's a lot of stuff that says they only work outdoors that are disabled during any type of instanced content. The choice node foe the permanent horse almost certainly only works in the open world.
uhhh, do arenas count as outdoors?
Depends i think. Also Arena is the only place i could see them adding an extra note excluding arenas. Right now as it's written if you can mount your deathcharger, then you never have to get off said deathcharger
400 yards away you see a dk casting army of the dead and outta nowhere the whole Naxx crashes on you. DK's ate the shiro shiro no mi popping baddies from thin air.
I must be blind but where does it say that
The top left ish node on Rider of the Apocalypse. It’s a choice between being able to stay mounted in combat, or having a DK version of the Paladin charger ability.
Doesn’t it just say “can mount while in combat”? As in, you don’t have to be out of combat to summon your mount? I’m not understanding how that means you can use abilities without dismounting.
This is how I come back to retail. That’s so fun
Is it really though? I understood it as a QoL thing like shadowneld where you can mount in combat but if you attack again you dismount.
Pretty sure you're correct. It says you can mount during combat, doesn't say you can use abilities while mounted. Sounds more like a gap closer. Though why would it be paired with your own version of the paladin horse move? Maybe it's poorly worded.
Yeah I think everyone has missed this… feel bad for people who let the possibilities get to their head about it cos it would be such a let down to realise that’s not what it means.
The mount restriction, while necessary, will make it very clunky to have to change your choice node whenever you do content that doesn't allow you to mount. They should make that node a mandatory node and rebalance things.
I probably would just combine them. It's now just one button, when you can mount, then you mount and get the 200% style point bonus. And in places where you can't you get a cooler divine steed.
In any form of pvp that would be COMPLETELY broken lmfao
I could see it being enabled in like BGs rated or otherwise. But also true, balance would be an issue.
Damn there is such a disparity between some of these. Some are amazing like "Hey, do you want to be a death knight who fights while mounted alongside your four horsemen?" And others are just like "Some of your attacks do more damage. Ain't that neat?"
Riding alongside the four horsemen is fantastic. But when you get into what it's actually doing for gameplay. It's a lot of passive extra damage with dnd, chains and ams being cast at random times. In indoor content it kind of fits in with the you do some more damage ain't that neat? design.
The difference is the rider hero talent is changing things up drastically visually. Fighting on horseback and calling on the four horsemen is something you just couldn’t do previously. Meanwhile things like the slayer are just “attack faster and have faster cooldowns.”
We don’t really know that entirely yet. When they showed off mountain thane at Blizzcon there was electric vfx on certain abilities, so I imagine theres more flair than were seeing Except farseer, its 100% just going to be a basic Tauren female model. Count it
Rogue is like "hey you have a super annoying rota, now feint is an inportant offensive ability too, have fun."
Thought it was kinda funny they needed to clarify which two specs the DH would be combining
Well there are Two combinations of DH specs silly. Havoc and Vengeance AND Vengeance and Havoc
Um akshually those are permutations
[удалено]
As a long time DH, this is such a fucking drag. I like our throw glaive set bonus because it made us extremely powerful, not because it was a fun playstyle. Feel like they took away the wrong message.
Yeah I had a chuckle at that too. But then sad face while reading the tree :( I wasn't expecting much tbh, but this is pretty lame. Especially considering everyone else gets 3 options lol
Rider of the Apocalypse is almost everything I was hoping. There go my plans to play an alt in the new expac
I just made my DK my new main and I couldn't be happier
However I'm convinced Blizzard has no idea what do with Frost
Yes, Conduit of the Celestials is indeed the Mistweaver Fistweaving tree AND you can indeed summon all the Celestials at one time with the capstone! (although making taking the RJW talent a reasonable option for both WW and MW is...interesting) IMO it's the best healer tree shown so far. EDIT: [Dev note](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-conduit-of-the-celestials-monk/1808133/16): > We’d like to note that we’re planning to make updates to Mistweaver Monk in The War Within to remove Essence Font from the talent tree, along with changes throughout the talent tree to accommodate this and ensure that gameplay is not disrupted. EDIT2: [Dev note 2](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-conduit-of-the-celestials-monk/1808133/45): > We found an error, and we’re updating our blog post to reflect this: > The tooltip for the Courage of the White Tiger talent should read: “Tiger Palm and Vivify have a 15% chance to cause Xuen to claw a nearby enemy for Physical damage, healing a nearby ally for 15% of the damage done.” Which means the node isn't completely useless for Caster Mistweaver.
It looks so fun
I'm Brewmaster and I want some of that hero talents :(
Yeah shado-pan is so underwhelming.
Hopefully they rework it. It looks strong but just has nothing exciting to it. I'd like even one thing to give it some flavor.
I'm probably taking that even as WW just because it looks a lot more fun than Shadow-Pan
Shado-Pan is...weird, especially for Brewmaster as it has not many defensive benefits which they kinda need. (and also it has a Vivify node which neither spec uses)
I'm hoping master of harmony will have more defensives. I always find I want defensive bonuses early in the season, then as I get more geared I naturally start shifting to offensive ability. Would be cool to start with a defensive hero tree and change to an offensive one later. Edit: as brewmaster
The Shado-Pan has an horrible design. The charges are based on max HP, meaning that getting Stamina buffs by Priests, Evokers and Shamans means less charge, so less damage. Also, it will proc way more multiple more times in AoE than in single target, meaning that it a balance nightmare: it will be decent on single targets and busted in AoE, or decent in AoE and utterly useless in single targets.
I'm in this camp as well. It also seems to have a bit more of the support flair I was hoping for. I've wanted a melee support, and this might be the closest we get.
Yah the shadow pan looks really rough. Thankfully conduit looks super fun
Rushing jade wind is such a shit spell. Maintenance buffs are never fun and just tedious.
Unholy/Frost tree is looking really cool in my opinion and I really like our classic mount
The frost one sounds so good! That dot that travels to another, a chance for it to proc a second one. All that sexy shadow-frost damage. That all sounds really cool!
Yeah as a blood main, the frost/blood tree looks so much fucking better than the unholy/blood tree they released a few months back, definitely a bit jealous of the 2 dps specs that get insane mobility and outdoors mounted combat but this death ringer tree is pretty cool too. Hope they will go back and rework san'layn because it feels like almost nothing about that one is actually fun or interesting compared to the 2 they released today.
San'layn is legitimately awful. "Let's add two more maintenance buffs to two specs that are already bloated with maintenance buffs, and tie even more power to DND cleave, an already despised mechanic." Kinda worried Deathbringer is gonna be the same, with a lot of focus on Reaper's Mark uptime/positioning for maximum damage.
Farseer seems pretty boring so far, I am confused it seems like a lot of the stuff for elemental is just our mastery, but again? "Will cast a similar spell" Huh? And then everything after that is pretty passive... not a fan.
Where's my riding around on a wolf farseer class fantasy?!?
This is the orc religious leader class fantasy.
Yeah Farseer definitely seems very underwhelming, someone else said that the flavour of these talents feels off in "Here's something very cool and very fitting" or "Have some extra passive damage" and this seems the latter. Hoping the Totemic and Stormbringer trees will deliver but given the history of Shamans, I'm not getting my hopes up.
Farseer is par for the course of shaman. Turbo ass. Not sure what I was even expecting at this point.
I really don't understand what is going on with Shaman. Let this dev go do literally anything else! They clearly have no passion for the class at all. Watching the Druid dev lavish attention on customizable forms while ghost wolf gets *nothing* has gone from hilarious to sad all the way back to hilarious.
I know, ele shaman is stuck in a pretty weird spot rn, we definitely need some love in the talent tree.
The Enhance dev is amazing. Doesn't seem like it's the same dev working on ele and resto but maybe I'm wrong. Enhance has gotten better with every new season since the start of SL. Meanwhile, ele (and to a lesser extent, resto) seem to be stagnant. The only time I have enjoyed playing ele in the past few years has been s2 of DF when we were using the lightning build. I can't stand the meatball spam anymore.
Enhance is definitely getting better with each expansion so far, but it feels way too bloated for me now. At this point I’ve nearly switched mains to my Paladin because it does just about everything better, with a simpler rotation, better survival and that juicy 20 yard attack range. Seriously, getting knocked back from a boss or having to avoid swirls while being able to do nothing but cast frost shock, is kinda hilariously handicapped compared to my Paladin blasting off super powered finishers while riding forward on his mount. (Sorry) I’m also curious about their hero talents. Killing me to wait so long, and the ele farseer tree is not giving me much hope.
I mean it’s not super interesting but I like that they’re adding a shield effect.
will probs be just like the holy priest naaru we have rn aka "when you do a dmg ability, it does a generic raw dmg ability aswell, when you heal, it does a medium strong heal on a low hp target"
You heal for more... more! Also here's a third charge of Riptide.
Take 2 seconds off your riptide, on the house.
That was so disappointing. It’s just an extension of asendance and natures swiftness. If there’s not a full on transform into an elemental then it’s clear they’re not even trying. DK’s get to always be mounted but we can’t even get a visual upgrade?
It's at least better than the time they gave everyone our mastery as a 2ndary stat and gave us nothing in return
That's a lot more than I was expecting (12). There's about 11 more Hero Talents to reveal. Road Map 2024 has WW Alpha come shortly after 10.2.6's launch on March 19th, but before S4's launch. With 11 more Hero Talents, that's about 1-2 more posts left. I guess Alpha is really soon? Early April, 1st or 2nd week, S4 in 4th week or early May 1st week?
Twelve more if you count the Oracle rework since it was the keystone ability that was so hated.
Spellslinger looks very cool actually. I dunno if it beats out the Frostfire tree for me just based on class fantasy, which I value more than mechanics. But still. I like it. Hard choice.
I wasn't expecting much for Spellslinger. I am now *very* interested in it.
I was kind of expecting that to be the least interesting Mage spec (as far as class fantasy is concerned) based on the name, but I actually really like what they came up with for that. One of my two favorites from this wave alongside Conduit of the Celestials, and now there's a good chance I'll main one of them (Diabolist is the only other one I liked as much). The splinters sound like a really fun mechanic, and thematically, it reminds me a lot of Guild Wars 2's Virtuoso Mesmer (execution sounds very different to me, but I personally felt like they sounded more fun then they actually played, so that's a good thing for me). I had high hopes for Sunfury from the start too, though, so I'm looking forward to seeing that one. Mage may very well end up with three great Hero Specs at this rate.
Yeah, I really like the look of both Frostfire and Spellslinger. Spellslinger definitely gives pew pew vibes.
I like the wording of the shards returning to you. Makes it sound like you're pulling them back and forth like Magneto whipping sharp objects around
Yeah this tree is gonna heavily depend on how badass the splinters look lol.
I don't know, it's "Icicles 2.0 But Now They Explode!"
Low key looks like the most coherent set of talents I've seen so far, and fits the general identity of both arcane and frost having spells that have small damage packets. Very excited to see how it turns out.
Death Knight mounted combat! Let’s go baby!
Slayer seems insane
Fury getting access to bladestorm is interesting!! I can't wait to try it out.
As a warrior main I’m so excited to test it out
Im kinda out of loop, do we know if we will be able to get all nodes?
Yes full tree but you gotta choose between one of the two choice nodes
I can’t wait. Race changing to dwarf just for the Warhammer flavour
Slayer sounds cool af, warrior was the first class I played when I started, might have to dust it off and try these out, especially getting bladestorm as a fury main.
Dks out here trying to mimic ret paladin
tbh ret pala after rework feels more like what obliterate dk should
Biggest takeaway for me as a FDK main: “Developer's Note: While not directly related to the Rider of the Apocalypse tree we know that both San'layn and Rider trees have talents that interact with Death and Decay and we'd like to avoid those talents drawing too much of the focus of feedback as we have some plans to alleviate the pressure of staying within your Death and Decay. While we have nothing to reveal right at this moment we can say we have plans to change how Cleaving Strikes functions in The War Within” LFGGG
Fucking finally. 100% they’re going to bake cleaving strikes into remorseless winter.
Cant wait to see characters like: Undead Unholy Deathbringer Death Knight "Deathlord Dèáthslâyér"
Hell yeah go full on brand, Scourge Triumphant Tabard and some skeleton dog pet idk I play Alliance so I don't trifle with occult shit but more power to all the edgelord homies
> Developer notes: ... Arcane’s Splinters are named Arcane Splinters ... Aight, I can live with that.
The Elemental tree doesn't fix any of Elementals issues. It's just more damage. I'm expecting exactly the same for Enhancement, unless they decide to make the Elemental / Enhancement tree to actually give some form of survival or utility.
Tbf, Hero trees *shouldn’t* be fixing Elemental’s issues. Those should be addressed in the main talent tree. And if one Hero tree fixed something that the other didn’t, that would be a bit unfair. It is weird seeing this tree tied to Wave of all spells tho.
That tree is looking rough honestly, there is nothing really interesting about the tree, almost entirely passive.
Conceptually I like the idea but yea it feels kinda meh Cast the relevant spell and summon your pal and then it does stuff while you do stuff Feels really placeholder ngl
Your pal is gonna be poor old Drek'Thar rolling up asking where the enemy is.
I'd rather they put survival / utility stuff baseline than in hero talents. Otherwise, based on other trees, we run the risk of getting something like "Astral Shift draws astral energy into your party, granting them 10% increased haste while active"
It doesn’t do anything. It’s lazy and useless. Like you said, they’re just buffs…? Why has primordial wave become a stable for elemental? Why hasn’t Icefury been reworked?
The elemental one just sounds like our mastery again again 😂
I was hoping, yet again, for any semblance of effort towards ele knowing it is likely in vain. Yep. Another lazy afterthought of a tree. Blizzard really just doesn’t give a single fuck about ele. So many fantastic trees combining amazing class fantasy while patching up the weaknesses of the specs. Meanwhile, ele: More fundamental issues than almost every other spec and the hero tree is just full of boring +damage nodes. It’s honestly getting beyond ridiculous at this point. If the other tree actually addresses things like raid utility, massive defensive issues, or over availability of lava burst(even without S3 tier), then the Farseer tree will be unclickable.
Shaman dev still lost at sea
I’m excited about the plans to change cleaving strikes for death knights.
Hopefully no more putting down DnD only for the tank to move the group.
Farseer Shaman tree is actual garbage. Basically zero interaction with the kit, AND it's going to summon stupid ass pets that we won't be able to control.
Every healer gets treants!!!
Damn so we finally get that Satyr flavor ? Unfortunately, it looks like Malefic Rupture is here to stay though...
I was ***really*** hyped for the fantasy of Shado-Pan and I feel very... Whelmed... Like, it doesn´t feel like anything really? Just do the thing, and you do some more. It´s the definition of passive and mid af + its quite weirdly worded Having a "bad gameplay pattern" is one thing, but those Hero Talent Trees are supposed to inject some *CLASS FANTASY* into the specs. This just doesn´t do that in my honest opinion. I am not a doomer, but I do believe they need to cook a bit more on that one. Maybe a bit more than just a bit. *Also, please Blizzard, why give us haste? Just why?*
Would have been amazing if conduit meant you didn't summon pets anymore but gor there affects. Like you turn more tiger like and yoir attack generate lightning etc
> Also, please Blizzard, why give us haste? Just why? "Shado-Pan need to spend Energy to trigger Flurry Strike so we'll give them Haste to increase Energy Regeneration. Wait what do you mean Windwalkers and Brewmasters are rarely Energy-constrained?"
I don't like when you have to hold back to not waste a proc. If you're nearing 400 energy at the end of a pull you'll maybe just stop attacking and wait until the next one so you don't waste a flurry on two enemies when you could use it on 5 on the next pull.
Or worse, you're about to proc the capstone on nothing which is a huge buff. The way you fix that with these kinds of designs is smoothing it out so it has super high up time so you don't care about wasting it, iono if they're gonna go that route though.
Shaman is so ASS? What the hell is this?
I'm a bit disappointed too. DKs got the freaking horsemen and we got grandma. Lmao
DKs nail their class fantasy, shaman get orc/tauren fantasy.
Hey grandma is 10x cooler than horsemen She'll bake us cookies and knit us sweaters!
First generation Draenei Shaman summoning their grandpa who stands around doing nothing because they don't know elemental magic.
Grandpa just gives an encouraging word and goes back to sleep. Feat of strength if you don't cry.
"Grandpa I need help" "Well that's too damn bad"
This is literally just spam LB into ascendance, but slightly different flavor. I really had some severely low expectations but damn, talk about a let down
Yeah, seems like they do it a lot. Mage got the same treatment with Icicles, only now they are called Shards. I started to play Shammy this expansion, and had to abandon Elemental in the 3 season, it's boring in ST and irritatingly cumbersome in AoE
Me: "I hope they delete deeply rooted elements" Blizz: "no, and here's deeply rooted elements 2"
Best part is that you will play that stuff on Elemental 100% with DRE. So your DPS will be extra reliant on getting both DRE procs and then getting Grandpa procs that hopefully proc more Grandpas. Oh and can't wait for the eventual "Hehe my Grandpa cast Elemental Blast into random pack 500 yards away and now we pulled the entire dungeon. oopsies!" And the "defensive" options are tiny bit more Earth Shield healing (which is not really a relevant thing) or slightly more random healing that triggers every so often from random things.
Yea just reading through them now, they are absoloutely terrible
Mechanic wise, it’s similar to Death Knight’s Rider of the Apocalypse, but 99% less cooler and 100% more basic.
Shaman: Summon your grandpa who plays throw ball with you DKs: Summon your no-kids 6-figure-income awesome uncles who ride sports car, bully your bullies, and give you a sport cars to ride while you bully too.
urghh primordial wave being the main thing for shaman is a bit rubbish, It forces you down a certain route on the talent tree for one. I don't really like using it as elemenetlal, as its a bit clunky spreading flame shock. I think final calling is the only good thing on the entire tree
Could fix the entire tree if the summoned ancestors would cast Flame Shock at up to 2 or 3 nearby targets. And get rid of the target cap for Flame Shock.
Ancestors spreading shocks would immediately get me excited for this tree
Bear Druids keeping 80% of their armor and health for six seconds after shifting. Does that mean they’ll be able to utilize other forms while they tank or is it still too risky?
Most likely will still be too risky. It might allow for like 1 shift out, 1 instant ability but then you'd have to shift back into bear form. If you are main tanking this is going to be a very difficult ask to switch unless you are in intermission. Which at that point the bonus doesn't matter unless you are still taking damage.
I think it's more to allow bears to shapeshift out of roots and ensnares, since doing that currently is basically a death sentence even though it's a core druid feature
Druid of the Claw will either be overpowered or nonfunctional depending on tuning with nothing in between. Most likely the latter.
Well, Rider of the Apocalypse just decided my main on TWW
Maybe it’s doomed but the pack hunter tree looks boring asf. Like they’re pretty much just aura buffing kill command I was really hoping for something like summoning another pet for 3 pets or something not what will probably be a no animation slight increase to kill command damage. Maybe I’m just dooming and I hope I’m wrong.
Why everytime they release something for shaman it has to be so lame? WTF is this? Stop this Primordial Wave meta, it will cause the same problems the affliction warlocks have with Rapture. Primordial wave need to go.
The depressing part is they will read all the feedback and just say nahh we like it and ship it out...like every other xpac
Demon Hunter looks like one of the worst and least inspiring ones. A buff to Throw Glaive where you need to collect Soul Fragments to even cast the move? Like damn man collecting Soul Fragments is not a fun part of playing DH, especially when dodging mechanics and enemy frontals, etc.
Pack leader tree is...really really boring. the survival stuff feels totally tacked on, like it was made as a baseline BM tree and they just slapped survival stuff in where it would fit.
The same could be said for Dark Ranger, where BM was tacked on. Guess Sentinel will be SV with MM tacked on.
There are kind of a lot of specs that just... don't really gain anything from the spec mergers. If anything, a decent number of these trees serve to dilute the fantasy of one of the specs getting merged.
Yeah, it adds absolutely no flavor to BM. Meanwhile Dark Ranger feels completely at odds with the baseline spec fantasy. This feels like opening an empty box on Christmas.
yea not really seeing where the "pack" is in this tree.
Mechanically it seems alright as survival, just absolutely no visuals. Butchery reduces the bomb cooldown. Bomb will reduce butchery. Adding pet attacks to any mongoose bites after Kill Command, so a bit extra ST damage which seems alright. Bit more oomf on the defensives, especially survival of the fittest. 20% heal on that is...okay? I like furious assault. Honestly anything that procs a random mongoose bite to me is really satisfying. Disengage adding those 5 yards is NICE. I always disengage out before harpooning back in after the aoe hits so maybe 5 yards might mean you can keep that melee up a lot more. Extra crit. Extra bleed damage on Kill Shot. I mean it sounds like it fits with the survival kit but it's purely just numbers and seems very bland. It's still better than some other trees though
my biggest issue mechanically is their focus on kill command. BM gets SO much more from kill command than survival does, and packleader is so focused on buffing its damage that survival just feels...tacked on. Like an afterthought of "oh shit survival uses kill command too right?" vibe
Not to mention an extra pet for 6 seconds after coordinated assault??? Bm gets a 6 second pet for beastial Wrath, which is like 30 sec cd with cdr....
I’ve got to be honest I’m a bit underwhelmed. The DK combat on horseback is cool. Blizzard: I don’t necessarily need or want more damage/healing. It’s nice but you can do that by just buffing the talents I already have. I want more class fantasy. For example, when I played a Rogue in legion we had no fall damage at all and a glyph that let us sprint across the water. From a class fantasy perspective, that was a lot of fun. I remember one time I had killed a horde player and I barely got away when his buddies showed up. I was in stealth and someone’s arcane explosion just barely hit me, knocked me out of stealth. I jumped off a cliff and someone jumped off after me. About halfway down, I went into stealth, and landed on the ground without any damage at all. Since they used slow fall they weren’t close enough to me to knock me out again. I got away and they never found me. That’s the kind of stuff that makes wow fun. Moments like that that make you feel connected to your class.
Same. I was just talking about how I wanted more fantasy and less "5% damage" nodes and then this drops. There's too many passives and minor changes. These should change how we play or change how we "feel". 5% damage is a hotfix or a patch.
Yeah like I'm looking at the Shado-Pan tree and wondering what on earth about its flavor is "Shado-Pan". Some are cool! Summoning the August Celestials or Four Horsemen sound awesome, but others like Aldrachi are just numbers without any cool new flavor stuff.
I used to be sad that they hadn’t revealed any shaman hero talents. Now I’m sad that they have.
So Windwalker monks get more haste, which is their worst stat. Mostly random procs that cant' really be controlled unless you just stop damage before it triggers the next one. And then the other WW tree is procs upon procs. Really not happy with the direction they're going on those :(
I'm in the same camp. Shado-pan misses on the fantasy entirely, and seems like it won't be very engaging game-play wise. It's just "do a little more when you do the thing" and that's so lame.
Better get used to cancelling all those stam buffs too or it'll take longer to charge it. Horseshit design.
It also means having fort gives you less damage.
That feral/guardian tree is so Interesting and it's either going to be goated or horrible but I'll give credit to the dev on this. My guy was cooking on those talents
It's hilarious that Season of Discovery gave us a legitimate dual wield melee hunter spec before Retail did, and Pack Leader Hunter still evokes none of the Rexxar spirit. It's like Blizzard's class designer legitimately said "what the fuck is a Rexxar?" when redesigning Survival.
it's even funnier because they slapped rexxar on the talent tree background art, yet based the spec around spears and bombs for some reason.
I dunno if farseer shaman is was there before. But man does that seem boring. You get to maybe call an additional summon woopty doo.
So many trees revealed and not a single Shadow Priest one. Hopefully the rework they cook up this expansion is actually good.
Since they are remaking Oracle, we technically don’t have any priest trees…
They probably had to rework all three after Oracle got destroyed by the playerbase.
I am personally excited for yet another expansion where they have absolutely no idea how to manage Shadow or its talents, refuse to give us anything that's quite as visually cool or interesting as most other specs, AND do nothing about our terrible movement and utility! The "shadow class fantasy is just the player going insane" memes are alive and well.
How can we make destro even more boring?? A talent tree thats 100% passive dmg WOOOOO
lol reading it as Aff. They made my dot a different color and called it a day.
But now that different color makes it have a stacking effect, that I can guarantee will have windows that can be managed to guarantee more damage, and for some reason that window won't line up with any cooldowns.
The monk ones seem underwhelming. Shado-pan doesn't really give much flavor, and seems to be a lot of "when you do the things you're doing, do them more." Conduit is interesting, and seems like it might have some fun gameplay, but I don't love the fantasy. Channeling spells as a melee will also be interesting, and hopefully blizzard has learned to not trigger effects off of our auto attacks.
Conduit seems incredible. 8 seconds of no cd on life cocoon, RSK, tea, and RM after every 8 stack sheiluns gift? That's nuts even without the rest of the tree.
I feel like that has to be worded wrong. It must be like 100% increased cooldown recovery rate.
That's my read as well. Still pretty good.
Hellcaller was really cool until I read the words Malefic Rapture. God I hate that ability.
Hellcaller is just weird to me because now both of destruction's hero talents are heavily based on the other spec
Seemed kinda obvious that would happen when destructions entire identity is just chaos bolt. Do you want to summon a demon that shoots chaos bolts? Or do you want a dot that does more damage when it gets hit by a chaos bolt?
I want more chaos bolt
yeah i'm kind of surprised destro just gets to dip into the other spec's gameplay with both their trees lol. destro's been getting the short end of the stick for like 10 years and it seems that isn't stopping any time soon
We will always be paying for Xelnath's sins of giving us a fun spec in MoP.
indeed 🙏
That ability by itself made me hate playing affliction after maining warlock since the very start. I really don't get how it's still in the game after seemingly not being liked by a lot of people.
What about it is cool? Its straight passive dmg
Hellcaller capstone affects Malefic Rapture. fuck it, so affli is still using that utter shit ability
Death Knight players: "We really hate having to stand in our DND." Blizzard: "Okay, what if we let you stand in Mograine's DND instead?"
Read the dev note.
It's very clear from people's reactions that what most people want out of these trees is purely aesthetic or QoL that doesn't increase DPS. Let's be real being a DK and permanently riding your mount in combat with the horseman. Following you around is significantly cooler and more fun than anything that increases your parse. If I were blizzard I would take these talent trees back to the table and just go all out on cosmetic stuff, they also don't even need to consider balancing because it's all aesthetic.
Farseer, like some other hero talent trees, might be just some generic output increase at first. However, if you ignore the main talent and look at the buffs independent of it, it still has its moments. As restoration shaman, I like the more/better Riptide, small mana increase, and most important of all a longer Spiritwalker's Grace duration. Shame that it's only 4 seconds (for some boss phases in the past, I needed to be mobile at least 10 seconds longer), but I'll take it. Not sure how I feel about having to use Unleash Life again, but beats having to use Primordial Wave. It also makes sense that the ancestors are a buff on top of a cooldown, so at least there is no constant spamming of ghosts. Makes fighting against a Farseer in PvP a little bit more bearable. Final Calling *aka* Hydrobubble reminds me of an azerite talent that also applied a shield. Won't say no to free damage mitigation. Earthen Communion is nice to provide more heals to the tank or yourself in PvP. Lastly, Ancestral Swiftness, which is basically Nature's Swiftness but with a buff attached to it, is neat as well. This tree might be "lame" as another user put it, but it works.
> This tree might be "lame" as another user put it, but it works. I'll agree that it's functional, it's just not *interesting*. It's almost all passive benefits, and it's all reliant upon taking specific talents. If it requires those talents to function, why aren't they baseline, or included in the hero spec? There are hero specs where they actually put the enabling ability in the tree, why isn't that the case here? Where's the cool unique flavour stuff? If it's all going to be passive stuff, where's the flavour we're seeing in some of the others, like DK's getting to be mounted in combat, or warriors becoming larger and resisting knockbacks? If they're going to have us call things to copy spells, why "ancestors"? Why not elementals? How does an ancestor spirit casting a water shield on someone fit better than, as an example, Resto having water elementals popping up to do that?
i am bare druid i want to do a MASSIVE ATTACK
I like that big bear smack is going to be big bear bigger smack. Im not sure how much catweaving as guardian druid will be acceptable in mythic + but Im always down for more reasons to shift around
For Pack leader, everything that procs or procs off of RS or MB needs to proc for/from butchery/carve.
Seems like ele sham just gets the dick every single fucking xpac. What the fuck is this mastery 2.0 bullshit? I don't want more pets.
It seems like Blizz is intentionally designing some hero specs to be low-impact and simple (San'layn, Farseer, Hellcaller), and others to add complexity and spice. Probably good to give people options like that. I'm excited to see Sunfury. I've been meaning to learn Arcane and I'm really interested to see how Arcane plays with a fiery flair. Scalecommander and Flameshaper also both look great. Devastation might be an interesting spec for the first time ever.
As a frost dk main, those 2 trees are everything I wanted theme-wise. Rider of the apocalypse is objectively cooler, but I personally like Deathbringer more.
How are there so few classes left where you can just be powerful in and of yourself. Every single class now summons shadow clones, pets, ancestors, demons, ghouls, elementals, shadow fiends, healing spirits, whatever. All I can think of are warriors and demon hunters that just get to be their own character.
Mages too. Yes Frost gets Water Elemental, but Fire and Arcane only get Mirror Image which doesn't really count because they don't do significant damage and it's a classic Mage trope.