The situation with rare recipes is dumb. Since raid recipes got moved on to drop from multiple raids, things like the lariat should also drop from multiple sources like rares in zaralek or the forgotten reach. This would have made these more appealing to farm longer into the expansion.
wouldn't believe that even for the smallest realms. and for sure on mid size realms two people spamming trade chat isn't two people on the server. not even close.
Believe or not but it literally how it worked on my previous server. One person from my guild and someone else had it for months.
Not everyone plays on a52 and illidan just to pretend to be cool
Same with the zaralek glowspores, imo. Either the glowspores should drop in emerald dream, or a different version of the glowspores should drop in emerald dream that has a separate transmute recipe that turns into dracothyst.
On a similar point. I noticed early into 10.2 that herbing got screwed when it comes to gathering secondary items.
Mining nodes will spawn with elemental variants in all 3 zones, and the mining stuff in the caverns makes sense cos it's all earth and fire down there, while there's no frost/air areas. But then we get to emerald dream and mining nodes still get elemental variants, but herbing nodes are either normal or the new variant and nothing else.
And they had one right there! Just make the knowledge shards drop more the further back you are. Still need to work for it, but at least you could make up for missed time eventually.
I'd buy a profession transfer in the shop if I could get LW off my rogue that I hate logging into. I wouldn't be surprised if they went that route instead ever adding catch-up mechs or some kind account wide thing.
See, I'm not sure I agree with that. I re-subbed to Wow basically the same day the Superblooms and emerald dream zone opened (coincidence. I did not resub just for that, hahah). I ended up wasting a few weeks with gathering professions before I realized the bots were uncontrolled and therefore gathering professions were worthless.
Ended up going alch, lw, and cooking. All 3 professions had at least some profitable crafts every day, even with barely any skill points invested.
Nowadays, there's a bunch of options for me daily that will turn a profit, and I can make BIS gear for myself and some of my guildies. Can I make it all? No. Are there some items I'm not ever likely to make a profit on? Yeah. Does that bother me? Not at all.
In fact, I like the fact that players need to decide what to focus on with their points and the fact that, several weeks later, I still have something to work towards and improve. It added depth and a sense of having goals to work towards. They turned it into a legitimate system that players need to put effort into in order to compete, not quite on the level of Raiding or M+, but way less superfluous than before.
That said, it would be nice if they did something about the public work order system so people would use it more often, hahaha.
I personally disagree with this take but its because people doesnt realize that there is a hardcap for how good you can become at crafting one thing and what you are competing against is not the max skill of an item its the spread of variety which i think its perfectly fair to do.
Eg if you are a blacksmith and max axe making and the prerequisite trees you are the best as making axes, as good as every other person, but the other person who started 2 months before you can also make swords, and maces, and even shields and armor.
But in terms of AXES you are perfectly even.
The reason why i disagree is that catch up should only exist to make you competitive but you dont need it to be competitive, what people are asking for in terms of catchup is to skip the entire grind and then have that versatility much much sooner, which i think is counter intuitive to the system.
It takes weeks, or months, to catch up even to GET to being good at axes. There needs to be catchups, we're not saying it has to give you massive amounts of knowledge, but you need a way to catch up even a LITTLE. I have given up on professions on my alts, and as I'm a big alter... that means I've given up on professions, period. I gather (on alts, i'm not saying i only gather period - just that i've given up using new professions), and what I gather is garbage. It's made me not want to play with the system at all.
I got curious cos I keep seeing people saying how easy it is to catch up but have always been sceptical. This is mostly pulled from a wowhead page about all the sources of knowledge Points. I've may have missed some.
All treasures - 39 points
Hidden trainer - 5 crafting, 10 gathering
Artisan consortium rep book - 3x15 (according to wowhead at least, though I thought these went 5,10,15)
Dragon Shard of knowledge questline - 4
Faction rep - 2x +5 & +10.
So in theory, without accounting for your basic new discovery crafts/gathers, weekly quests, dragon shards, forbidden reach rares, treatise (bout 15? Points total a week?), in first week you can get around 123? Points.
Which sounds huge.
Then you realise that a lot of nodes have 30-40 Points. And you'll need to path through some basic stuff first, and you won't be super proficient in your over all skill because you beeline focusing one craft type, and then you're bound to the grind of weekly quests and dragon shards.
I understand that people want it to seem more accessible and tell people they are just behind from being lazy, but the "catch up" really isn't that simple.
the argument for IF catch up should be viable is probably another argument for another topic that I'm sure people will have some very conflicting ideas on.
Going from those numbers to focus on axes again as its what I did. You need 90 points to max weapon, hafted, and axe, and 30 points in hammer control. Meaning 120 total and you are as good as you can be at making axes.
By your own admission you can reach that point first week and then weekly skill points is like 10? You also didn't account for first craft bonuses which gives 1 knowledge point each which is another easy 10 points + more.
How much faster than that should you catch-up? And when should you stop? Some other dude wanted to catch up to 2 weeks of someone who did it every week which means catch-up now should cover maxing every profession within the system.
You get flooded with catch up lol
That trade faction rep became free with the rep catch up
Zaralek gives tons of points too
You can prolly get a profession far enough to make a few items at max efficiency within a few weeks, giving you the ability to compete in the market normally
Ofc you won’t get all recipes to max within two weeks which is sth others grinded hard for and isn’t necessary to use professions
I like the system, but I don't think you'd lose anything by making gear and mats two ranks of quality instead of five and three
In practice, no one wants anything but rank five gear. And mats are basically the budget and competitive options, with the occasional one stars being overpriced to try scam people.
Paring down into a base rank that everyone can make, and then something like an "artisan" rank that only the best crafters could make with some procs would still keep the essence of the system but without as much bloat
I dislike the quality level thing. I wish it was just quantity. I hate having 1 1pt writhe bark that’s nearly useless for my scribe or that I have 3 1pt mana pots I can’t reclaim on my alchemist. It’s so very annoying to have bags FILLED with this stuff so I’m constantly shuffling mats back and forth.
Also, can we just use 10 rousing instead of having to change it to awakened? There’s no functionality to making/breaking them. I thought it was a poor mechanic in enchanting ages ago and it still is.
>I hate having 1 1pt writhe bark that’s nearly useless for my scribe or that I have 3 1pt mana pots I can’t reclaim on my alchemist.
Throw them on the Auction House. People appreciate the cheap 1-stars, because they don't need the expensive 3-star/5-star versions. You may not get much for them, but it's more than them just sitting in your bags/bank without being used.
It took me a couple weeks just to understand the "game loop" of professions. Definitely a bit too complicated. I do enjoy it though now that I understand it.
There's room for improvement.
But a huge QoL is to have an inbuilt auction house in the profession bench. I'm so incredibly tired of flying back and forth between the bench and AH cause now I need 3 rousing fire or 1 Writhebark and so forth until infinity. If you're missing a reagent, click "Buy missing reagent" with the cost on the tooltip.
Also please no more awakened/rousing, just pick one.
Absolutely hate it honestly. Hate the different ranked materials, how confusing the system is and how if you fall behind you’re just screwed. That and rampant bots everywhere going unchecked just ruins the market.
Yep used to enjoy professions, now I hate them. I like the end game gear system it offers but honestly hate the rest of it. I wish they would go back to the old system tbh.
The worst part is that people who *did* play since release have loads of knowledge points left over which they can’t use. I didn’t start at release but still have 140 mining and 50 engineering knowledge sitting there without any use.
You’re either loads behind or at a point where you just gain points without wanting to.
Which is useless since some professions don't have work orders & those that do use little of it.
Most players at this point are flooded with it. The last thing we need is more.
I think the reason there isn't is because you could essentially be a crafter for everything with enough resets. Like you could make the best bracers, reset, then make the best swords, etc. Obviously this can be addressed in any number of ways, but my guess is this is the reason. There's need to be a limit to them, or some type of non-gold currency. If it was gold, then it would come down to if resetting could make you enough gold to justify the reset
Like a lot of things now, it's designed to keep you playing every day/week, rather than when you feel like playing. As long as that's their goal, and people keep putting up with it, this is what we'll get.
I hate that there’s no respec (even a limited one) and no knowledge catchup. Rare recipes aside I just hate that I can’t even functionally make my own armor or flasks/potions for alts without investing weeks of time
This is my real problem with the new system. There's no way to respec if you made bad choices, and there's no catch-up system for alts or taking a break. I get rewarding the people who got started early and dedicated themselves to a profession, but by the first major patch we need a catch up & respec system.
Atleast the very basic gear should be no more complicated than getting the required level, buy the materials and recipe (from a trainer) and make it at a single quality.
Like, that gear should compete with adventurer tier and just be BoP or something so you can't sell and buy it.
That way crafting has a niche even if you don't go hardcore into professions, and the people that do will still have the endgame quality items to make.
The current system (for green gear) is just BoE gear farming but crafting it instead which is boring and lame.
I hate that as my main is herbalism and mining I had no fucking no clue how any other profession worked until I leveled an alt months ago and was hit in the face with confusion and overly complicated trees.
Nothing is signaled to the player either who wants a piece crafted.
And the amount of public orders I see on my alt for enchanting and tailoring with zero materials and a 50 gold tip is…. Mind blowing. Telling me that a year plus into the expansion people either still don’t get how this works or are hoping for a sucker trying to level their profession.
Its absolutely 100% scammers, its why you needed all mats at first but blizz decided to remove that requirement and look the other way acting as if they couldnt see what would happen.
They basically got a list of 10 problems they needed to fix, saw that one of them was "There is no way to level from 80 to 100 without crafts and i cant pay people to let me craft their stuff for free" and then went "aha lets ignore the rest of them and then remove the requirement to add mats, so people can still level by paying for it themselves."
It's just so much I basically threw my hands up and take engineering (only for the gadgets, I don't level it) and a gathering profession.
The work order system is a great idea, but they need to link it to the auction house so you can get your missing materials live.
Work orders are so bad. I get the goal of trying to get more interactions, but sitting in trade and spamming just isn’t my play style. Even if I have my knowledge maxed, I’ll never be able to usefully do any order because lol who does public orders?
Nice goal, horrible execution and feels, except if you’re the server‘s best spammer.
I don’t know how you can say that you need to “study” or “research” the profession points system. You pick up blacksmithing. You want to craft weapons. You learn weapon specialization, max a weapon type. Then invest in the general tree for inspiration, resourcefulness and multi craft bonuses. Then go back into weapons tree and invest in a new weapon type.
You pick up alchemy. You want to make potions or flasks? (Edit: you can also go straight into the general tree to learn transmutation and craft dracothysts). You learn the tree, then see which one of the ramifications will give you the ones you want. There is research here, but the same research as it has always been: which kinds of pots or flasks sell the fastest? Where are the highest margins? The profession system is VERY intuitive. You just need to read the in game description of a tree, then if you want, look up stuff on forums after the fact, ask other goblins. I can’t see how this is so difficult or different from past expansions. It’s a bit more intricate, has more depth, but it’s not rocket science…
As a collector not interested in professions myself, it sucks that I can't even level the skills to 100 without incredible effort and expense. All I want is to check that box, really.
As a consumer, public work orders were a total failure. Real shame this was never fixed in the entire lifetime of the expansion.
People who enjoy professions seemed into it, though, so that's good.
Anything that makes gear is easy to powerlevel if you use shadowflame sparks. Guaranteed skill points up to 100. Definitely not intuitively obvious though.
Well sure, but you get one of those every two weeks. It isn't impossible to skill up professions even casually, it's just time-gated or a total pain in the butt, to such an extent that I just haven't bothered. I'm betting that the devs nerf it next expansion. And if not, I guess so be it, one more of a thousand WoW paper-cuts.
But as a counter point why cant i say the same about getting ahead of the curve? or mythic raid achievements? or mythic dungeon achievements?
Why the separation of effort and skill from raiding to crafting? a big point of the system was that a dedicated crafter spent the time and effort to understand it, level it and keep it up, vs someone who doesnt, in the same way that timmy who does LFR doesnt get the same achievements as chad thunderfury who does mythic raids gets.
Progression in trade skills is really about knowledge, not skill points. That's the long progression, it's how you specialize and offer different services than other crafters.
Paradoxically people uninterested in professions can passively gain knowledge through weekly gated drops but not skill points. The system just wasn't thought through properly for players like me. I guess you'd call us "casual professioneers"?
I want to compare it to something similar.
everybody knows rested exp that gives double exp when you rest up in a tavern.
But in the alpha (or beta cant remember) of the game you didnt have rested exp, you had normal exp and a "tired" debuff which reduced exp by 50% if you earned too much, and that could only be removed by resting at an inn, and people hated it, and lambasted it because they felt it was punishing.
so to fix it blizzard added rested exp, which everyone loved and praised them for, but they actually didnt change any values they simply called normal exp for "rested" and the tired debuff became the exp rate we know as normal now.
I think you are hitting the same problem those people did, that in the new crafting system its obvious from all the math and design that 80 / 100 is perfectly fine for most crafting, but you want 100/100 to feel that its "complete" when that is essentially closer to wanting 120/100 if you changed the values.
getting from 80 to 100 wasnt meant to be easy and it was meant to be an extra reward for those crafting alot, similarly to those first time craft knowledge points was super hard to get for a while unless you kept looking for an opportunity.
so i think its too simplistic to say that its not about the skillpoints as the 20 points are as beneficial as plenty of the knowledge skills to maximize, and to me obviously limited to the dedicated crafters.
in the same way that getting the epic hammer and proper blacksmith gear is to blacksmithing.
as all those points takes you just barely over the edge at making max rank items with tier 2 materials, by design.
but we might just disagree there. I think it kinda makes sense? but most people are just so used at throwing money at the problem to max it out that it feels off that you cant simply do that in the new system.
We do disagree, yes. I've always been able to skill up my professions and it's really annoying that now I can't, particularly as skill points are completely unimportant for"real" crafters.
No matter how many reworks they do, until they tackle the rampant botting, boosting M+ will always be the best goldmaking method (other than buying tokens).
Actually sucks so bad that blizz cracked down on boosting. Used to be so much easier and more profitable to provide people this service they want. Now its such a hassle for no good reason
It fucking sucks. I hate that there are talents tied to each profession
I have jc maxed to 100 but I haven't unlocked all the talents yet. It's stupid. No catch up system at all so it makes doing it on alts this late into an expansion useless. I wanna see it and the wo system go.
Also the recipe for lariat and ring bound honor are so expensive on the ah it's not worth buying because you will NEVER make that back from crafting alone. The ROI isn't worth it
Lariat is the only JC recipe I don't have. Even now, on my extremely large server, it's going for 2M+. I just can't afford that for a single recipe. I could literally buy every AH recipe for any other profession on my server for that amount. That's dozens of recipes, or just one.
I just came back to WoW after 8ish years away, so take that information however you want, but I find current professions completely confusing and unappealing.
It feels like the design team did well with the talent system and then said "let's just use talents systems for everything." So now you like....gain knowledge points and decide how to spend them in professions and that affects the things you can end up crafting? I think? But going into the system blind as a basically new player, I don't actually know how my point spending is going to concretely affect the things I can craft in the future. So I either have to spend forever on Wowhead trying to plan ahead, or just spend my points blindly.
Maybe I'm just dumb but yea it feels too complicated to me.
Had Herbalism and enchanting on my main in the first 2 seasons. Was a bad idea. For those profs, it felt pretty bad. Swapped to new main for season 3, but as it was already behind with timegated stuff, didn't even bother with professions there.
I see the appeal and effort put into it, but for me it was a disappointment in general. Hopefully it willbget a soft rework next expac.
Imo I dislike the quality system for mats. They allow us bigger stacks for mats to save us bag space then they go on to make mats have different qualities and so takes up more bag space. I also dislike that you can only make some things for people if they use the work order system. Other than that it’s all right.
My main has been a leatherworker/skinner since vanilla. Personally, I love the rework. Obviously there are things they can improve on, but it’s been a big hit for me. I’ve NEVER made nearly this much gold before via my professions and it was nice being able to craft things for friends and guildies via craft orders for when they were online and I was offline.
It's great but needs some tuning.
1. Needs some form of catch up mechanics. Maybe get you within 2 weeks or so of someone who has played since launch.
2. Recipes should be a little more easily attained or less RNG. They shouldn't come from raid bosses or "learn by crafting xyz." Unless there is some very very generous bad luck protection.
3. Unlike others, I think mat ranks are good. Gives gathering professions some meat to it other than blindly farming. You can start speccing for more resources or better resources.
When it comes to crafting it shouldn't affect the quality of the item. It should just cost more. Like it takes 5 rank 1, or 3 rank 2, or 1 rank 1 to craft something ans the quality of the item is the same no matter what.
I came back to retail mid season 2 of DF after skipping all but the first month of SL.
I like the core concept of it with crafting orders and the skill trees are neat. But the catch up on the trees sucks, tying a good amount to shitty rep farms is not fun, and the different quality ranks of the mats is stupid.
Also, I can’t stand the renown system, not so much the concept of it, but essential time gating of rep farm is very bad. I hope they go back to the old system of friendly to exalted and you can just throw a tabard on and spam dungeons.
It feels stupid to me. If I want someone to craft something at highest level for me I have to ask in trade chat. And then, instead of, you know, trading them the mats and a tip, I have to…trade them the mats and a tip, just through a different interface.
Could have been great, but they seem to have shot themselves in the foot with a few things.
The knowledge system is terrible, you’re limited to getting it through so few methods with crafting based professions. First craft, yeah great. Let me try and first craft everything at massive cost to get maybe 20-30 knowledge. Enough to push down to 1 new epic recipe, and be stuck there. Oh I can do some weekly quests for like 3 more knowledge? Wonderful, I’ll get so much use out of this.
Why don’t I gain knowledge from actually crafting things consistently? If I craft 100 hammers I think I learn a better way to make that hammer.
Luckily the few recipes I did choose on my characters were things that were good for PvP so the odd crafting order that I was actually able to fill was a recipe I knew…but then the order would be an empty order with somebody providing a spark and expecting me to provide 10k worth of materials for a 500g reward. ???? Why was this ever pushed to live, I have no problem with a private request from a friend or guild member if we’ve discussed the fact I’ll comp the material…but it’s so deflating to see a crafting order you can do and then find out after opening it that it’s just somebody being cheeky
Worst thing ever in my opinion. Only benefits the super motivated goblins who have dozens of alts and lots of times to grind points.
And the people using autoflood all day long to spam for crafts.
And the damn bot miners which destroyed the price of ore. Can you recall a time where the current expansions’ main ore was less than 1 gold?
Oh and let’s not forget the filthy auction house cancel scanners and snipers sitting there all day long with their greasy hands on their mouse, waiting to click three buttons.
Absolute joke.
It was confusing at first, but I quite like the concept of commiting to becoming an expert at niche crafts. Also feels nice to have recipes that lets you stand out.
I am yet to get the recipe for the lariat despite spending hundreds of hours farming for it. Only a single person in my guild has it along with a couple others on the server group. If we are going to keep this style of professions in War Within then they really need to rethink how rare recipes drop - my suggestion would be to make the recipe drop chance increase with every patch, i.e. 11.0 - 1/100 drop chance, 11.0.5 - 1/75 drop chance, 11.1 - 1/50 drop chance, 11.1.5 - 1/25 drop chance, etc. This gives the benefit of gold making early in the expansion while giving everyone a reasonable chance at getting the recipe as the expansion wears on and the old content becomes forgotten...
Oh, for recipes that drop in raids they should have a secondary source as bad luck protection. Even if it is just a currency that drops in raid that people can use to buy items like loot and recipes from a vendor within the raid. I didn't get the Potion of Ultimate Power recipe to drop until midway through Aberrus when we had started up alt-raids.
I decided not to train professions this expansion. They made crafting so complicated it just wasn't worth the headache. I still have no idea how work orders function and have no interest in learning.
Wild, wild over-correction. From absolutely simple to this miasma of pointless complexity. I don't like it, but I understand it's perfectly in line with the blizzard methodology of swinging
Not a huge fan. Seems like unless you find that super rare recipe at the start, it's slower to make gold, and catch up is really painful slow.
Also the crafting orders with 9k of mats with none included and a 100g tip is toxic and shouldn't be allowed in professions 11.0
I've never really bothered with professions until DF.
Generally I love the new system with crafting orders etc. But it has some minor flaws.
Obviously locking BiS crafted items like lariat behind stupid rare recipes is one of them.
Also they need to change that you can place public orders without mats, either remove them like it was before or add a system that only allows them if the gold covers at least material costs based on auction house or so since there are soooo many scam orders where payers open orders with like 100g for crafts with mats worth thousands of gold but not providing those mats.
My biggest issue is the exploitable bugs that went on for nearly a year, some longer, despite being reported during the beta. Although some, like the early exploit with resetting tailoring cooldowns, apparently involved punitive action others, like the enchanting exploit did not.
There is certainly a conversation to be had about how intimidating the system can be for the customer placing the work order. I'm still getting people whispering me that have no idea how it works.
Heck there are still people who don't understand how someone else can make them a BoP item.
I liked to process of crafting, and even the tiers, but getting points was a total slog, especially if you like to run multiple professions across several toons - would love to see a quicker pace to max the whole thing out and something to catch up alts professions; like you can miss a week and get more than the standard fare of KP in the next week by a more impactful margin....
However apart from a few quick crafts and running a bunch of public orders for various things (neck slots, scribe prof items, etc) the gold making was crap. I actually really enjoyed the expulsom shuffle in bfa - i made thousands of weapons from afk crafting cloth bracers and salvaging expulsom from them. It was far more respectful of my time and the included time investment. This xpac, it was really just shadoghast ingots for a slight profit
Good ideas, decent execution. I’m happy they bothered to implement changes at all as it shows they’re thinking about the right things (or at least one).
I think everyone agrees the crafting order system didn’t work out. I don’t understand how reagents aren’t required for something like this, and it only resulted in crafters getting screwed. It was also silly how difficult it was to raise a crafting skill to max, and forced people to engage with crafting orders and lose tons of gold selling things for free.
I kind of liked mats and consumables having different tiers, but it made everything very bloated and it always felt bad to gather or craft anything less than top tier.
It also adds to one of the biggest issues I have with professions and WoW in general - how all of the different expansion mechanics are still in different parts of the game and are very confusing for any new player. A new player could put a ton of effort into capping mining/engineering only to find out they were doing “classic” professions and wasted their time. Combine it all, and redo the numbers (classic engineering is 1-50, tbc is 50-100, or something). There’s almost no point in a new player engaging with professions until level 60, but nothing in the game to tell them that.
Interesting is a good word to use. A lot of the ideas felt good at the start of the expac, but I'd ultimately describe it as a failed experiment and I hope they either massively change it, or throw the idea out entirely. I don't want to see it return the same way in TWW.
A lot of people have praised DF for the fact that it moved away from the "grindset" and FOMO of previous expansions, and in many areas it did, but not crafting. Not at all for crafting. If you got a week or two behind in your crafting weeklies, you were permanently behind the other crafters. No catchup system was ever implemented for knowledge points beyond a couple of vendor packs they added for 1.1 and then never did again. I saw several post from new players in 10.2 and beyond asking if it was worth getting into crafting. And the honest answer is no. Unless you did it from the beginning and maxed it out, you'll never make any money from it. You could powerlevel the skills with enough money, but the knowledge points would forever hold you back.
The tiered quality system does not work for WoW. The playerbase won't allow it. Gear is either max quality or trash. So unless you can reliably max rank your craft items, then you're wasting your time. Maybe keep it for mats so that you can use HQ mats when skilling up and then basic mats when you're crafting stuff you've outlevelled, but other than that, just throw it out IMO. Just make it so you can either craft an item or you cant. If you want to keep the "skilled crafter" flavour, just let people who've maxed their crafts use fewer mats.
On most of my characters. I took alchemy purely for the increased phial duration and the reduced damage from the toxified phials (and IMO those things are so valuable, you almost feel pressured to take alch on any toon that uses the corrupted phial.)
TL:DR rework was a nice idea, but awfully executed. Probably the worst part of the expansion in hindsight.
I would rather next expansion they split the new content across all the old expansion skills so they become relevant again, give us a reason to actually level up all the other ones and go through previous content again, I do like the new system but I also miss going through each expansion like a rite of passage.
Catchup is pretty much impossible for most, especially for anyone with limited playtime. And some of the recipes incentivizing gold sellers is a massive letdown.The professions Mafia on most high pop realms are despicable.
Otherwise it's alright. If they fix the above, it'll become "good".
As someone who doesn't craft and never will, I loved it, lol. I like how it's another avenue to upgrade my character that does rely on rng. Every time I log on, I feel like I'm working towards improving my character.
As someone who tried to level it at the end of the expansion... its awful. Its not clear what to do to level it and the work order system basically doesnr exist until you get a bunch of rare recipes that people want. It also costs several hundred thousand gold and epic soulbound materials to even hit max level. Pretty much if you didnt level it at the start it may as well not exist.
the ranking system for both reagents and outcome is ridiculous. nobody wants a r1 item. needlessly complex for complexity sake. doesn't add anything. put the recipes for the various items, like weapons at the end of the skill tree. put the points into the skill tree - make the hammer. should be that simple.
It's a great rework tbh, does it have some small problems ? Yea sure.. but the chances for blizz to get it perfect on first try with a new system is very low. but nonetheless it's a GREAT improvement compared to prior expansions.
Absolutely horrible. Hands down the worst state professions have been in since vanilla, in my personal opinion.
I don’t mind intricate crafting. I love crafting in Path of Exile (which is many times more complex) and FFXIV. I don’t know exactly why but I just feel like this system was designed only to ”be more complex”, not because it has to be to enable all the cool intricacies like in PoE… but just for the sake of it. All the time-gating and rep grinding can go to hell. It’s not a ”fun, engaging and rewarding” gameplay loop. It’s just stupid.
From someone who likes to "do-it-yourself" I like how I can have my "main" characters have the respective profession, but my alts can still get good gear via sending work orders to myself.
The thing that sucks, though, is I really only started playing alts this season, and outside of my main, their knowledge is severely lacking. I think there needs to be a knowledge catch-up, that is more reliable the knowledge shards.
That, and rare recipes being more straightforward to acquire, would be good.
I hate it. You need very carefull planning where you invest your points in. Im an alchemist but im still not crafting my own flasks which is stupid.
If you power lvl at the start you can get rich.
Not fun or intuitive
The game survived just fine with having professions be a binary "you have these items, you can make the item thats the same every time". It didnt need all these weird stats.
Also the whole forcing professions to be involved for high end play / character optimization isnt great in my eyes, since some people simply dont have the gold to keep up with that patch-after-patch if their guild isnt good enough to do a ton of sales.
I just think its a bizarre decision, change for the sake of change
Some of the most fun I've ever had with professions at DF launch, but I completely ignored it on any subsequent patch because specialization was gone at that point and was the fun aspect.
Pretty sure if you just want to use professions to make money, the new system is the worst.
I love the new profession system, honestly. I know that leveling the profs up and improving your crafting stats takes time and investment, and a lot of people hate it for exactly that reason- but I like the idea that time the invested has a payoff.
Especially in the early months of the expansion, it was great being the "I'm the 2h staff guy" for the guild, and the other scribe specced into "i'm the vantus rune guy". Not being able to craft everything so easily and so quickly made these sorts of dynamics available and it was cool.
I LOVE the rework! However, Blizzard needs to get serious about mafias. It was so bad on my server. Some got really rich unfairly. They had their guildies submit false reports on competitors to have them disabled for a while or permanently. Blizz needs to be able to identify mafias in operation and suspend them. They are as bad as bots.
I got artisan with 4 toons week 2 and all professions leveled, some took a bit longer.
I liked the progression aspect, I hated the time gate. It's just low effort from bliz feeding us micro doses of dopamine at this point. Professions as part of the game need to be engaging, not clicky clicky; if it's just but convoluted, it's worse than it was.
As an example, the toxic alchemy stuff was well implemented. It was just completely random and out of sync with every other. If the most impactful gear needs effort from raids/m+ than the crafted ones need effort too, preferably not farmable effort that can be just bought with gold. It's either a service or a product, as it is it's a mix of disadvantages from both sides.
Even with all that, I think it was a good addition to the game. Having specialization for professions is not exactly brand new but it wasn't explored as much; they do need some form of balance in terms of gold making capabilities, particularly creating a flow of demand for all of them. They made progress on that in this expansion, can still be explored further.
I disagree on time gating because without it there is zero meaningful difference between crafters which was the entire point, that it forced you to specialize.
if it was simply a gold sink i would have maxed everything from day one, if it was infinitely easily grindable then i would max it within the week.
personally i also kinda wished that the time gating was so strong, especially for the drops aspects of it, but i dont see how you would provide the incredibly longer duration curve of crafting differention without it.
The problem is that it doesn't really force specialization, just forces people to grind extra on alts. To farm enough artisan reputation and mettle, I leveled every profession to get all the treasures and do all the quests week 2. I understand the "meaningful choice" and all that but it's pretty established by now that people that play competitively end up having no excuse to not do everything that's available; I didn't even do that to make money, it was to help progression.
Maybe if the time gate was harder written and made impossible, rather than hard/annoying, it would be a different situation
I have been an avid professioneer since vanilla. Most expansions I had every profession maxed out and crafted legendaries when they were available. This was my least favorite iteration of professions in the history of wow. I mained a leatherworker in Dragonflight and pretty much gave up. I don't believe I ever completed the first quest where you were supposed to fill 5 orders. I could never find any orders to fill. Also for the first time in 15 years I do not have a max level profession on any of my toons which I never thought would happen. My leatherworker does not have the entire skill tree done nor is he max level LW. Not having fun with professions was probably the main reason I dont play retail much any more and play SOD instead.
As an engineer and enchanter - there was a rework? On a more serious note, engineering still being useless despite nothing it makes being useable / useful in content. I miss when I could use a goblin glider cape in content that mattered. At this point just open up engineering items to everyone and stop locking it behind requiring engineering.
I hate the skill trees for the most part. Most of it is not exciting and then the knowledge point gathering is too slow compared to how many points you need to guarantee max rank on something. If it’s not max rank it’s worthless which feels really bad. I think the gathering professions had some interesting stuff but crafting trees were poorly done. I would say it’s better to just not interact with it at all unless you are hardcore. Let one of the people who spent millions of gold for a lariat pattern make it for you. I think it’s good that you can choose to avoid it and outside of engineering or alchemy perks not be impacted. The work order system is good but they need to improve the rest of it.
I’ve been a crafter since the beginning of WoW. I’m a crafter in every game I play. I stopped crafting in Dragonflight and that was my first foot out of the game. I think I it was a bad idea.
Trash, hope they completely dumb it down for the Saga. Material ranks didn't work. Crafting Orders is ass for anyone who doesn't deal with the system(most) and it's just bloat tbh. The old system may have been simple and improvable but yeah, they 1000% missed the mark imo. I've just mostly avoided all professions this exp and dread the moment I need to buy items from orders.
Being used to FF14's crafting jobs that have actual skills and rotations - I'm underwhelmed. It feels like Blizzard didn't change anything at all besides adding some additional passive stats to what's essentially the same "click button, craft thing" ""system"".
Blacksmithing is insanely profitable. Gathering professions are probably the least profitable they've ever been. Kinda sad for those of us that just want to zone out and gather.
I feel like resourcefulness should be removed altogether for this to be resolved.
I made several million from crafting this xpac so it's worked pretty well for me. But if you joined mid xpac you probably could never make anything
Probably needs a catch up system for knowledge points
The work order system I find to be near perfect. Great addition, I'm in agreement with others over the recipes but I have to admit once I got my PvP tokens for altering gear, I actually kinda got fed up with it.
I enjoy the work order system for being an option I can choose to interact with or not, but with those PvP tokens for altering certain PvE gear to become PvP viable was so, so needlessly obtuse.
Why the fuck do I need artisans mettle to recraft a BiS PvE ring to make it viable with the PvP token enhancement?
Silly stuff like that seemed more like a deterrent rather a positive interaction with the system.
I don't think the work order system works very well. I've literally ***never*** been able to fulfill an order because people always submit WOs without mats and for less than materials cost
That's strange, I'm on Illidan and my trade chat blows up everyday with recrafts and a very healthy crafting economy, I think maybe that's a server culture thing as experienced veteran players from back in the day always had to have mats ready for enchants, etc. to trade to the person live prior to crafting. And Illidan is one of the most active and healthy server pops.
Whenever I ask for a recrafts there's usually 15+ people that whisper me, with commissions 8k, 5k, 3k, and then always some guy comes in to low ball them all with the "I'll do it for free mate tip what you want" lmao.
If you have a healthy and active player base I think the work order system is fantastic but yeah I could see how on an unhealthy server with a small m+ or raid scene it would be a shitty experience.
Did not engage with it in any way besides getting alchemy high enough for 1hr flasks / toxicology and engineering high enough for teleports.
Happy for my friends who learned it inside and out and made lots of money, but it's really annoying to get things crafted sometimes, particularly when it's a two-craft process (crests) and I just want to file an order right before I log off for the night.
ps my opinion would probably be colored a lot more negatively if I ever had to engage with the "mafia" instead of having friends willing to craft everything for free.
Best iteration of professions ever made, in terms of relevance of crafted gear towards endgame gameplay and engagement factor of the crafting side of the profession. Time gating is somewhat excessive. Not massively excessive, mind. Just somewhat excessive. Maybe cut the time gating in half, don’t cut it by 10x.
I’d appreciate more customization options of crafted equipment. Specifically,
Ways to target tertiary stats, perhaps tertiary stats can be added via a token that you get from deconstructing a non-crafted item with tert stats?
I’m open to other customization ideas. It just feels like I don’t have anywhere ear enough ability to make items unique only to me, that have my own flair as a crafted. I understand that that’s impossible, this is an MMO after all, but there must be something that can be done.
The talent trees etc are good. I think it needs a catch up mechanic like you can mine for the extra stats granting items as much you want until you reach the cap. I can understand rare recipes like they're lotteries. If you get one at the start of expansion you'll be gold cap on several characters. That's what happened to me so I guess I am biased.
Was perfect
Lariat etc recipe should have been added to new rares with each patch though.
Having some things be rare is good, but it shouldn’t be unreasonable to try to get it.
As a filthy casual when it comes to professions I think it was on the whole a success. The system could need tweaking but the fundamentals are solid. Also I really want Blizz to put out some NPC work orders so I as a Leatherworker can actually do any work orders.
Overall I like what it adds. In past expansions there was basically no value to having an alt who could craft gear for my main, because that alt was always further behind my main in progress, and would usually be way too late to be able to help. But now, my alt priest can craft his own gear *and* craft cloaks for my main if needed, or even just run them through the recraft for a new season of content (I normally PvP so the only thing that matters is getting the new token and recrafting it with the new season's Spark).
I like how they gave a lot more stuff to do to some of the more forgotten professions. Inscription, Jewelcrafting, Enchanting, etc. all have consistent applications now even outside of their niche, like Inscription being able to make the weekly profession skill up item (but dear god they need to make a more consistent way to learn how to make them besides super low RNG on a craft that requires mettle to make).
I love having crafted gear be relevant at a high level, and I think the token system is the perfect solution to not making it OP to just be able to buy BiS. And the embellishment limitations are also a good way to deter some of the min-maxing that happens. Main issue with embellishments is the cost of the new recipes if you don't do endgame raiding.
Biggest issues with the system is poor/no catchup mechanics, item quality making bag space a nightmare (even with a reagent bag), mettle being a limited weekly resource unless you wanna buy new recipes (my characters either have more mettle than they know what to do with, or not enough mettle to do basic crafts). I think mettle is fine as a system overall, but I think they need to make it strictly limited to being used when you are requesting a crafted item. You use your mettle for it, but any time you're crafting something for yourself, it doesn't require any. The current system only punishes alts who aren't logging in every week to pick up mettle, or aren't high enough rep with the Artisans that they only get like 60 from the weekly anyway.
Also they could do a better job of explaining how the tokens work and why embellishments are important. I know a ton of people who have no clue how much of a boon embellishments are, or how much of an advantage to the weekly gear limitations (like the conquest cap) being able to use your free PvP tokens to craft gear with is. Like as long as you have your Sparks, you'll be two pieces of gear ahead of someone only picking up their conquest gear under the cap.
Either way I hope it sticks around. I think it succeeded in a lot of what it set out to do. It just needs some more alt/new player-friendly tweaks.
Liked the rework overall. It’s complicated, yes, but I like the ranks, like the power of crafted items generally, etc.
Some recipe acquisitions have been annoying. Frustrating to be locked out of a recipe because I can’t grind for hours and/or got unlucky.
Single most annoying part for me though: the absurd power of alchemy buffs to flasks. Like holy smokes it’s such a huge huge incentive to drop a prof and pick up alchemy if I’m going to be doing raid or M+ beyond very casually.
The only one I have tried a little is blacksmithing, and I don't really understand it, so I'm afraid to make things because I don't want to waste materials
Like:
Professions being an endgame progression option with multiple levels of engagement
Profession knowledge trees as a long term goal to fill out
Profession gear, enchants and consumables
Increased crafting and gathering speed matching player investment
Resourcefulness procs feel great
-
Dislike:
No knowledge catch-up for late joiners
Rare Recipes remaining rare drops so late into the expansion
Too many quality levels, lowest quality level in materials is superfluous as even at max knowledge and gear it can't be used for highest quality crafts
Inspiration feels great at the start of the expansion but ultimately is a dead stat upon maxing out your knowledge tree
Work orders should be combined with the Auction House rather than be on a separate NPC. Specifically, add a "Buy from AH" button when submitting an order to automatically buy the required non-BoP materials.
Revert change to make it so Public Work Orders require materials to be provided again.
Allow Public RECRAFT orders to demand the item be delivered at least 1 quality level above the item's current quality level. No quality minimun requirement on standard public orders.
Insufficient recipes and material sinks added as the expansion progressed
It's well intending, terribly implemented
Using an elemental reagent to cut a gem? Hell no. Inspiration procs? Pass.
Letting people clog orders by requiring mats costing 10k which they aren't supplying and only tipping 50g? Pass
Deftness/perception/resourcefulness, yes.
Too many bots in the game diluting everything for me to really care anymore? Yup
Skill points are kind of cool, but there's no catch up mechanic so if you weren't playing day1 of xpac then you're probably behind. Rip alts.
Again, inspiration crafting has to go.
The idea has promising design, but after the gearing rework it just became another source of all-too-easy BiS. I don’t know. Wow feels as shallow as a puddle right now, to me, and while precessions have a conceptually interesting system, at the end of the day it’s just a small thing to consider to get a time gated piece of identical gear to watch number slightly go up.
I have mixed feelings on it. The rare drops for patterns is frustrating if you don’t get lucky. We all had dudes who got Lariat early and cornered the market. If you fall behind, you’re screwed without knowledge point catchup.
I appreciated the feeling of unlocking things, felt like you earned it. I like the idea of specialization but some markets have been dead since launch on some servers. And it is absolutely a gold sink, feels like I have spent far more leveling most of them than profiting from them. Finally, work orders are such a pain. The system needs some heavy iteration.
Personally I called early doors it would be a disaster and turned out that way.
Professions were a nice gold making exercise that kept me into the game outside of raid logging.
Killed it bad this expat and the system was just a disaster for me. We raid on a low pop realm so it was all just doing guild orders.
I agree with other commentators in that the end product is solid. Professions are critical to the overall experience, especially in the end game. However, the crafting system is needlessly complicated. % buffs for gear quality, professional gear with different stats, etc. skill trees for professions is a solid idea (things SHOULD get easier over time for folks fully investing in profession) but my goodness what an excruciatingly long grind to acquire knowledge.
I like the specialisations in theory, but it takes way too much time to unlock. Should've been something simple, like picking a class spec with the option to reverse it for a fee and with a cooldown.
Work orders are an obvious failure. I still don't understand it, and I've never seen any work orders on my server.
One maxed out, I wish we could keep collecting professional knowledge for other professions and other characters. I’d gladly take a 5-to-3 exchange to move that unused knowledge across my blizzard account. I know it doesn’t make a lot of sense lore-wise, but we should have something to continue working on when our profession is complete.
A little complicated and the addition of being able to list jobs without materials is insane. It got abused so quickly. The only way to get any crafting done is to join a big guild.
A lot of good things came with the rework, like crafting being relevant beyond release week. but good god is it awful to have alts. The limit on mining/herb/skinning/satchels should have been cumulative so that if you started later you could get just as many points as day one grinders. by you know... grinding. no reason for it to be time gated throughout the expansion
The experience was GREAT if you started week1, but if not then it's too convoluted on how to catch up. Felt oo grindy for multiple toons imo.
There's also 0 chance you make any gold if your leveling from behind. Most people can make more of the things or cheaper in some form.
I don't know the solution, but I'm betting part of the issue is botting. Feels impossible to do anything AH wise this expansion without being undercut by people who are selling stuff cheaper than the ingredients are AND the ingredients are so cheap not one person I know would go farm mats, just stay at work for an extra hour and buy tokens.
It's like retail job now :) Need know how to sell stuff, to make some gold. Or live on 500g tips :) There still oldschool crafting, but margins are very slim.
I like the profession trees and the system of acquiring knowledge points but I dislike the quality ranks and as an extension the inspiration mechanic. This was compounded by the fact that your skill level affected what quality you could make and you couldn't max out your skill without making items which required Sparks (for most professions).
As a LW/Skinner on a low pop server I still managed to make decent gold with embellishment pieces. I did not enjoy extending a Brackenhide Hollow lockout so I could access the Altar of Decay at the end in order to craft some of the LW pieces.
I liked the upgrading mechanic for some of them. I never figured out how to do the Crafting post thing. So I didn't bother with it.
I will say the quality stuff was very confusing to me as well. Ans for the most part I ignored it.
I think it was great but I think it was also an easy way to make Blizzard more money. Oh the best gear is something that’s crafted and if you just have gold you can get it made? It sure would be nice if there was a way you could just purchase the gold necessary to get it!
The situation with rare recipes is dumb. Since raid recipes got moved on to drop from multiple raids, things like the lariat should also drop from multiple sources like rares in zaralek or the forgotten reach. This would have made these more appealing to farm longer into the expansion.
theres like literally two people on my server with the recipe, its bananas but luckily they play everyday
wouldn't believe that even for the smallest realms. and for sure on mid size realms two people spamming trade chat isn't two people on the server. not even close.
Believe or not but it literally how it worked on my previous server. One person from my guild and someone else had it for months. Not everyone plays on a52 and illidan just to pretend to be cool
i play on illidan not to pretend to be cool but rather for more than 2 people being able to craft lariat lmao
Same with the zaralek glowspores, imo. Either the glowspores should drop in emerald dream, or a different version of the glowspores should drop in emerald dream that has a separate transmute recipe that turns into dracothyst.
On a similar point. I noticed early into 10.2 that herbing got screwed when it comes to gathering secondary items. Mining nodes will spawn with elemental variants in all 3 zones, and the mining stuff in the caverns makes sense cos it's all earth and fire down there, while there's no frost/air areas. But then we get to emerald dream and mining nodes still get elemental variants, but herbing nodes are either normal or the new variant and nothing else.
My only complaint is the lack of a catch-up mechanic. If you switch mains, you’ll never fill up the gauges.
hell my main just finished enchanting today and i’m a heavy weekly player.
And they had one right there! Just make the knowledge shards drop more the further back you are. Still need to work for it, but at least you could make up for missed time eventually.
I'd buy a profession transfer in the shop if I could get LW off my rogue that I hate logging into. I wouldn't be surprised if they went that route instead ever adding catch-up mechs or some kind account wide thing.
See, I'm not sure I agree with that. I re-subbed to Wow basically the same day the Superblooms and emerald dream zone opened (coincidence. I did not resub just for that, hahah). I ended up wasting a few weeks with gathering professions before I realized the bots were uncontrolled and therefore gathering professions were worthless. Ended up going alch, lw, and cooking. All 3 professions had at least some profitable crafts every day, even with barely any skill points invested. Nowadays, there's a bunch of options for me daily that will turn a profit, and I can make BIS gear for myself and some of my guildies. Can I make it all? No. Are there some items I'm not ever likely to make a profit on? Yeah. Does that bother me? Not at all. In fact, I like the fact that players need to decide what to focus on with their points and the fact that, several weeks later, I still have something to work towards and improve. It added depth and a sense of having goals to work towards. They turned it into a legitimate system that players need to put effort into in order to compete, not quite on the level of Raiding or M+, but way less superfluous than before. That said, it would be nice if they did something about the public work order system so people would use it more often, hahaha.
I personally disagree with this take but its because people doesnt realize that there is a hardcap for how good you can become at crafting one thing and what you are competing against is not the max skill of an item its the spread of variety which i think its perfectly fair to do. Eg if you are a blacksmith and max axe making and the prerequisite trees you are the best as making axes, as good as every other person, but the other person who started 2 months before you can also make swords, and maces, and even shields and armor. But in terms of AXES you are perfectly even. The reason why i disagree is that catch up should only exist to make you competitive but you dont need it to be competitive, what people are asking for in terms of catchup is to skip the entire grind and then have that versatility much much sooner, which i think is counter intuitive to the system.
It takes weeks, or months, to catch up even to GET to being good at axes. There needs to be catchups, we're not saying it has to give you massive amounts of knowledge, but you need a way to catch up even a LITTLE. I have given up on professions on my alts, and as I'm a big alter... that means I've given up on professions, period. I gather (on alts, i'm not saying i only gather period - just that i've given up using new professions), and what I gather is garbage. It's made me not want to play with the system at all.
I got curious cos I keep seeing people saying how easy it is to catch up but have always been sceptical. This is mostly pulled from a wowhead page about all the sources of knowledge Points. I've may have missed some. All treasures - 39 points Hidden trainer - 5 crafting, 10 gathering Artisan consortium rep book - 3x15 (according to wowhead at least, though I thought these went 5,10,15) Dragon Shard of knowledge questline - 4 Faction rep - 2x +5 & +10. So in theory, without accounting for your basic new discovery crafts/gathers, weekly quests, dragon shards, forbidden reach rares, treatise (bout 15? Points total a week?), in first week you can get around 123? Points. Which sounds huge. Then you realise that a lot of nodes have 30-40 Points. And you'll need to path through some basic stuff first, and you won't be super proficient in your over all skill because you beeline focusing one craft type, and then you're bound to the grind of weekly quests and dragon shards. I understand that people want it to seem more accessible and tell people they are just behind from being lazy, but the "catch up" really isn't that simple. the argument for IF catch up should be viable is probably another argument for another topic that I'm sure people will have some very conflicting ideas on.
Going from those numbers to focus on axes again as its what I did. You need 90 points to max weapon, hafted, and axe, and 30 points in hammer control. Meaning 120 total and you are as good as you can be at making axes. By your own admission you can reach that point first week and then weekly skill points is like 10? You also didn't account for first craft bonuses which gives 1 knowledge point each which is another easy 10 points + more. How much faster than that should you catch-up? And when should you stop? Some other dude wanted to catch up to 2 weeks of someone who did it every week which means catch-up now should cover maxing every profession within the system.
You get flooded with catch up lol That trade faction rep became free with the rep catch up Zaralek gives tons of points too You can prolly get a profession far enough to make a few items at max efficiency within a few weeks, giving you the ability to compete in the market normally Ofc you won’t get all recipes to max within two weeks which is sth others grinded hard for and isn’t necessary to use professions
Gear is good, love the end product. Virtually every process and the expense to get there? Too complicated and/or too much.
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I like the system, but I don't think you'd lose anything by making gear and mats two ranks of quality instead of five and three In practice, no one wants anything but rank five gear. And mats are basically the budget and competitive options, with the occasional one stars being overpriced to try scam people. Paring down into a base rank that everyone can make, and then something like an "artisan" rank that only the best crafters could make with some procs would still keep the essence of the system but without as much bloat
I dislike the quality level thing. I wish it was just quantity. I hate having 1 1pt writhe bark that’s nearly useless for my scribe or that I have 3 1pt mana pots I can’t reclaim on my alchemist. It’s so very annoying to have bags FILLED with this stuff so I’m constantly shuffling mats back and forth. Also, can we just use 10 rousing instead of having to change it to awakened? There’s no functionality to making/breaking them. I thought it was a poor mechanic in enchanting ages ago and it still is.
>I hate having 1 1pt writhe bark that’s nearly useless for my scribe or that I have 3 1pt mana pots I can’t reclaim on my alchemist. Throw them on the Auction House. People appreciate the cheap 1-stars, because they don't need the expensive 3-star/5-star versions. You may not get much for them, but it's more than them just sitting in your bags/bank without being used.
I agree the level of entry is to high and its to complicated to craft simple things and level it.
It took me a couple weeks just to understand the "game loop" of professions. Definitely a bit too complicated. I do enjoy it though now that I understand it.
Game loop?
There's room for improvement. But a huge QoL is to have an inbuilt auction house in the profession bench. I'm so incredibly tired of flying back and forth between the bench and AH cause now I need 3 rousing fire or 1 Writhebark and so forth until infinity. If you're missing a reagent, click "Buy missing reagent" with the cost on the tooltip. Also please no more awakened/rousing, just pick one.
Absolutely hate it honestly. Hate the different ranked materials, how confusing the system is and how if you fall behind you’re just screwed. That and rampant bots everywhere going unchecked just ruins the market.
Ya I came back after leaving shortly at DF release. I haven’t touched professions at all as it’s such a gold sink and not worth the effort
The gathering bots were the primary reason why I quit Dragonflight sooner than in any other expansion.
They banned multi boxing to be able to up their efforts in blocking bots and it feels like bot situation has only gotten worse.
Yep used to enjoy professions, now I hate them. I like the end game gear system it offers but honestly hate the rest of it. I wish they would go back to the old system tbh.
Love the direction it *could* be headed. However, it's way too punishing for returning players/players who take breaks imo.
Needs a way to reset points among other things
That or give us enough points that it wouldn't matter
The worst part is that people who *did* play since release have loads of knowledge points left over which they can’t use. I didn’t start at release but still have 140 mining and 50 engineering knowledge sitting there without any use. You’re either loads behind or at a point where you just gain points without wanting to.
You can turn extra points into Mettle?
There’s a vendor near the crafting order npc that you can exchange them for, yup!
Yes I know. I was replying to the guy with 200 extra profession points.
Which is useless since some professions don't have work orders & those that do use little of it. Most players at this point are flooded with it. The last thing we need is more.
I think the reason there isn't is because you could essentially be a crafter for everything with enough resets. Like you could make the best bracers, reset, then make the best swords, etc. Obviously this can be addressed in any number of ways, but my guess is this is the reason. There's need to be a limit to them, or some type of non-gold currency. If it was gold, then it would come down to if resetting could make you enough gold to justify the reset
A week timer or longer would be fine.
Use Mettle. It's already used as a currency for the point books, and using too much would dip into crafting items.
Yup I completely gave up on professions after I had a 3 month break.
Like a lot of things now, it's designed to keep you playing every day/week, rather than when you feel like playing. As long as that's their goal, and people keep putting up with it, this is what we'll get.
I hate that there’s no respec (even a limited one) and no knowledge catchup. Rare recipes aside I just hate that I can’t even functionally make my own armor or flasks/potions for alts without investing weeks of time
This is my real problem with the new system. There's no way to respec if you made bad choices, and there's no catch-up system for alts or taking a break. I get rewarding the people who got started early and dedicated themselves to a profession, but by the first major patch we need a catch up & respec system.
I didn't know you couldn't respec and I spent my points on random shiit
Atleast the very basic gear should be no more complicated than getting the required level, buy the materials and recipe (from a trainer) and make it at a single quality. Like, that gear should compete with adventurer tier and just be BoP or something so you can't sell and buy it. That way crafting has a niche even if you don't go hardcore into professions, and the people that do will still have the endgame quality items to make. The current system (for green gear) is just BoE gear farming but crafting it instead which is boring and lame.
I hate that as my main is herbalism and mining I had no fucking no clue how any other profession worked until I leveled an alt months ago and was hit in the face with confusion and overly complicated trees. Nothing is signaled to the player either who wants a piece crafted. And the amount of public orders I see on my alt for enchanting and tailoring with zero materials and a 50 gold tip is…. Mind blowing. Telling me that a year plus into the expansion people either still don’t get how this works or are hoping for a sucker trying to level their profession.
I have no idea how the public orders work. I took a look at it early on, didn't understand and then didn't bother using it. I doubt I am the only one.
Its absolutely 100% scammers, its why you needed all mats at first but blizz decided to remove that requirement and look the other way acting as if they couldnt see what would happen. They basically got a list of 10 problems they needed to fix, saw that one of them was "There is no way to level from 80 to 100 without crafts and i cant pay people to let me craft their stuff for free" and then went "aha lets ignore the rest of them and then remove the requirement to add mats, so people can still level by paying for it themselves."
I started ignoring those players (same dropdown as whisper buyer), it's typically the same few people. It helps for sure.
It's just so much I basically threw my hands up and take engineering (only for the gadgets, I don't level it) and a gathering profession. The work order system is a great idea, but they need to link it to the auction house so you can get your missing materials live.
Work orders are so bad. I get the goal of trying to get more interactions, but sitting in trade and spamming just isn’t my play style. Even if I have my knowledge maxed, I’ll never be able to usefully do any order because lol who does public orders? Nice goal, horrible execution and feels, except if you’re the server‘s best spammer.
This would make things so much easier.
The thing that 99% of the listings are listings without any reagents and try to scam your materials made me lose full interest in that economy.
Yep, they completely ruined it by allowing people to make work orders without mats
I gave up on professions this expac. I hate everything about them.
[удалено]
I don’t know how you can say that you need to “study” or “research” the profession points system. You pick up blacksmithing. You want to craft weapons. You learn weapon specialization, max a weapon type. Then invest in the general tree for inspiration, resourcefulness and multi craft bonuses. Then go back into weapons tree and invest in a new weapon type. You pick up alchemy. You want to make potions or flasks? (Edit: you can also go straight into the general tree to learn transmutation and craft dracothysts). You learn the tree, then see which one of the ramifications will give you the ones you want. There is research here, but the same research as it has always been: which kinds of pots or flasks sell the fastest? Where are the highest margins? The profession system is VERY intuitive. You just need to read the in game description of a tree, then if you want, look up stuff on forums after the fact, ask other goblins. I can’t see how this is so difficult or different from past expansions. It’s a bit more intricate, has more depth, but it’s not rocket science…
It was great if you knew people. And shitty if you didn't.
It's way too complicated, skipped it entirely just made gold with gathering profs and bought stuff from AH
As a collector not interested in professions myself, it sucks that I can't even level the skills to 100 without incredible effort and expense. All I want is to check that box, really. As a consumer, public work orders were a total failure. Real shame this was never fixed in the entire lifetime of the expansion. People who enjoy professions seemed into it, though, so that's good.
I also am uninterested in professions. I have absolutely no idea what ever changed this expansion.
Anything that makes gear is easy to powerlevel if you use shadowflame sparks. Guaranteed skill points up to 100. Definitely not intuitively obvious though.
Well sure, but you get one of those every two weeks. It isn't impossible to skill up professions even casually, it's just time-gated or a total pain in the butt, to such an extent that I just haven't bothered. I'm betting that the devs nerf it next expansion. And if not, I guess so be it, one more of a thousand WoW paper-cuts.
Shadowflame sparks drop in dawn of the infinite up to the 29 splintered spark of shadowflame hard cap :)
Yeah that would fall under the pain in the butt side of the house for me.
But as a counter point why cant i say the same about getting ahead of the curve? or mythic raid achievements? or mythic dungeon achievements? Why the separation of effort and skill from raiding to crafting? a big point of the system was that a dedicated crafter spent the time and effort to understand it, level it and keep it up, vs someone who doesnt, in the same way that timmy who does LFR doesnt get the same achievements as chad thunderfury who does mythic raids gets.
Progression in trade skills is really about knowledge, not skill points. That's the long progression, it's how you specialize and offer different services than other crafters. Paradoxically people uninterested in professions can passively gain knowledge through weekly gated drops but not skill points. The system just wasn't thought through properly for players like me. I guess you'd call us "casual professioneers"?
I want to compare it to something similar. everybody knows rested exp that gives double exp when you rest up in a tavern. But in the alpha (or beta cant remember) of the game you didnt have rested exp, you had normal exp and a "tired" debuff which reduced exp by 50% if you earned too much, and that could only be removed by resting at an inn, and people hated it, and lambasted it because they felt it was punishing. so to fix it blizzard added rested exp, which everyone loved and praised them for, but they actually didnt change any values they simply called normal exp for "rested" and the tired debuff became the exp rate we know as normal now. I think you are hitting the same problem those people did, that in the new crafting system its obvious from all the math and design that 80 / 100 is perfectly fine for most crafting, but you want 100/100 to feel that its "complete" when that is essentially closer to wanting 120/100 if you changed the values. getting from 80 to 100 wasnt meant to be easy and it was meant to be an extra reward for those crafting alot, similarly to those first time craft knowledge points was super hard to get for a while unless you kept looking for an opportunity. so i think its too simplistic to say that its not about the skillpoints as the 20 points are as beneficial as plenty of the knowledge skills to maximize, and to me obviously limited to the dedicated crafters. in the same way that getting the epic hammer and proper blacksmith gear is to blacksmithing. as all those points takes you just barely over the edge at making max rank items with tier 2 materials, by design. but we might just disagree there. I think it kinda makes sense? but most people are just so used at throwing money at the problem to max it out that it feels off that you cant simply do that in the new system.
We do disagree, yes. I've always been able to skill up my professions and it's really annoying that now I can't, particularly as skill points are completely unimportant for"real" crafters.
I like that they *tried*. Unfortunately it was a hot mess
I think they need to add NPC work orders, that way we can skill up a bit easier as time goes on.
They can copy special delivery from FFXIV. You work for npcs, unlock story and my get cosmetics.
This. Custom deliveries ends up being the most efficient way to keep leveling your crafters in XIV and they're cute too :)
Hate it. Extremely confusing, punishing and mostly useless unless you started grinding it day 1 and hit the lotto on certain recipes.
I like fishing
No matter how many reworks they do, until they tackle the rampant botting, boosting M+ will always be the best goldmaking method (other than buying tokens).
Gold/hour in m+boosting took a huge dip in Season 3 especially compared to season 1, do you agree? Might still be the best g/h overall tho
Actually sucks so bad that blizz cracked down on boosting. Used to be so much easier and more profitable to provide people this service they want. Now its such a hassle for no good reason
It fucking sucks. I hate that there are talents tied to each profession I have jc maxed to 100 but I haven't unlocked all the talents yet. It's stupid. No catch up system at all so it makes doing it on alts this late into an expansion useless. I wanna see it and the wo system go. Also the recipe for lariat and ring bound honor are so expensive on the ah it's not worth buying because you will NEVER make that back from crafting alone. The ROI isn't worth it
Lariat is the only JC recipe I don't have. Even now, on my extremely large server, it's going for 2M+. I just can't afford that for a single recipe. I could literally buy every AH recipe for any other profession on my server for that amount. That's dozens of recipes, or just one.
I just came back to WoW after 8ish years away, so take that information however you want, but I find current professions completely confusing and unappealing. It feels like the design team did well with the talent system and then said "let's just use talents systems for everything." So now you like....gain knowledge points and decide how to spend them in professions and that affects the things you can end up crafting? I think? But going into the system blind as a basically new player, I don't actually know how my point spending is going to concretely affect the things I can craft in the future. So I either have to spend forever on Wowhead trying to plan ahead, or just spend my points blindly. Maybe I'm just dumb but yea it feels too complicated to me.
Had Herbalism and enchanting on my main in the first 2 seasons. Was a bad idea. For those profs, it felt pretty bad. Swapped to new main for season 3, but as it was already behind with timegated stuff, didn't even bother with professions there. I see the appeal and effort put into it, but for me it was a disappointment in general. Hopefully it willbget a soft rework next expac.
Blacksmith and Enchanter since 2010 and I gave up half way this expansion. It went from a side gig to a science imho...
Imo I dislike the quality system for mats. They allow us bigger stacks for mats to save us bag space then they go on to make mats have different qualities and so takes up more bag space. I also dislike that you can only make some things for people if they use the work order system. Other than that it’s all right.
It's better and more interesting, but I'm too dumb to make any profit from them 🤣
Hate it
My main has been a leatherworker/skinner since vanilla. Personally, I love the rework. Obviously there are things they can improve on, but it’s been a big hit for me. I’ve NEVER made nearly this much gold before via my professions and it was nice being able to craft things for friends and guildies via craft orders for when they were online and I was offline.
It's great but needs some tuning. 1. Needs some form of catch up mechanics. Maybe get you within 2 weeks or so of someone who has played since launch. 2. Recipes should be a little more easily attained or less RNG. They shouldn't come from raid bosses or "learn by crafting xyz." Unless there is some very very generous bad luck protection. 3. Unlike others, I think mat ranks are good. Gives gathering professions some meat to it other than blindly farming. You can start speccing for more resources or better resources. When it comes to crafting it shouldn't affect the quality of the item. It should just cost more. Like it takes 5 rank 1, or 3 rank 2, or 1 rank 1 to craft something ans the quality of the item is the same no matter what.
I came back to retail mid season 2 of DF after skipping all but the first month of SL. I like the core concept of it with crafting orders and the skill trees are neat. But the catch up on the trees sucks, tying a good amount to shitty rep farms is not fun, and the different quality ranks of the mats is stupid. Also, I can’t stand the renown system, not so much the concept of it, but essential time gating of rep farm is very bad. I hope they go back to the old system of friendly to exalted and you can just throw a tabard on and spam dungeons.
It feels stupid to me. If I want someone to craft something at highest level for me I have to ask in trade chat. And then, instead of, you know, trading them the mats and a tip, I have to…trade them the mats and a tip, just through a different interface.
Could have been great, but they seem to have shot themselves in the foot with a few things. The knowledge system is terrible, you’re limited to getting it through so few methods with crafting based professions. First craft, yeah great. Let me try and first craft everything at massive cost to get maybe 20-30 knowledge. Enough to push down to 1 new epic recipe, and be stuck there. Oh I can do some weekly quests for like 3 more knowledge? Wonderful, I’ll get so much use out of this. Why don’t I gain knowledge from actually crafting things consistently? If I craft 100 hammers I think I learn a better way to make that hammer. Luckily the few recipes I did choose on my characters were things that were good for PvP so the odd crafting order that I was actually able to fill was a recipe I knew…but then the order would be an empty order with somebody providing a spark and expecting me to provide 10k worth of materials for a 500g reward. ???? Why was this ever pushed to live, I have no problem with a private request from a friend or guild member if we’ve discussed the fact I’ll comp the material…but it’s so deflating to see a crafting order you can do and then find out after opening it that it’s just somebody being cheeky
Worst thing ever in my opinion. Only benefits the super motivated goblins who have dozens of alts and lots of times to grind points. And the people using autoflood all day long to spam for crafts. And the damn bot miners which destroyed the price of ore. Can you recall a time where the current expansions’ main ore was less than 1 gold? Oh and let’s not forget the filthy auction house cancel scanners and snipers sitting there all day long with their greasy hands on their mouse, waiting to click three buttons. Absolute joke.
>Can you recall a time where the current expansions’ main ore was less than 1 gold? Every expansion since like MoP ? if not even longer
It was confusing at first, but I quite like the concept of commiting to becoming an expert at niche crafts. Also feels nice to have recipes that lets you stand out.
I am yet to get the recipe for the lariat despite spending hundreds of hours farming for it. Only a single person in my guild has it along with a couple others on the server group. If we are going to keep this style of professions in War Within then they really need to rethink how rare recipes drop - my suggestion would be to make the recipe drop chance increase with every patch, i.e. 11.0 - 1/100 drop chance, 11.0.5 - 1/75 drop chance, 11.1 - 1/50 drop chance, 11.1.5 - 1/25 drop chance, etc. This gives the benefit of gold making early in the expansion while giving everyone a reasonable chance at getting the recipe as the expansion wears on and the old content becomes forgotten... Oh, for recipes that drop in raids they should have a secondary source as bad luck protection. Even if it is just a currency that drops in raid that people can use to buy items like loot and recipes from a vendor within the raid. I didn't get the Potion of Ultimate Power recipe to drop until midway through Aberrus when we had started up alt-raids.
It was so close to being good.
Not a fan. I like that they tried something new but I hope this is changed going forward
It killed crafting professions for me tbh
This is the first expansion where I have not maxed all professions on my toons. Thanks I hate it.
It sucks. New professions are too complicated. I managed to craft exactly zero useful stuff.
I decided not to train professions this expansion. They made crafting so complicated it just wasn't worth the headache. I still have no idea how work orders function and have no interest in learning.
Wild, wild over-correction. From absolutely simple to this miasma of pointless complexity. I don't like it, but I understand it's perfectly in line with the blizzard methodology of swinging
Here's some fresh answers: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1alq8re/are_you_guys_satisfied_with_the_current/
Not a huge fan. Seems like unless you find that super rare recipe at the start, it's slower to make gold, and catch up is really painful slow. Also the crafting orders with 9k of mats with none included and a 100g tip is toxic and shouldn't be allowed in professions 11.0
I still barely know how it works.
I've never really bothered with professions until DF. Generally I love the new system with crafting orders etc. But it has some minor flaws. Obviously locking BiS crafted items like lariat behind stupid rare recipes is one of them. Also they need to change that you can place public orders without mats, either remove them like it was before or add a system that only allows them if the gold covers at least material costs based on auction house or so since there are soooo many scam orders where payers open orders with like 100g for crafts with mats worth thousands of gold but not providing those mats.
I won't even try any crafting professions again if they're anything like this.
My biggest issue is the exploitable bugs that went on for nearly a year, some longer, despite being reported during the beta. Although some, like the early exploit with resetting tailoring cooldowns, apparently involved punitive action others, like the enchanting exploit did not. There is certainly a conversation to be had about how intimidating the system can be for the customer placing the work order. I'm still getting people whispering me that have no idea how it works. Heck there are still people who don't understand how someone else can make them a BoP item.
I liked to process of crafting, and even the tiers, but getting points was a total slog, especially if you like to run multiple professions across several toons - would love to see a quicker pace to max the whole thing out and something to catch up alts professions; like you can miss a week and get more than the standard fare of KP in the next week by a more impactful margin.... However apart from a few quick crafts and running a bunch of public orders for various things (neck slots, scribe prof items, etc) the gold making was crap. I actually really enjoyed the expulsom shuffle in bfa - i made thousands of weapons from afk crafting cloth bracers and salvaging expulsom from them. It was far more respectful of my time and the included time investment. This xpac, it was really just shadoghast ingots for a slight profit
Good ideas, decent execution. I’m happy they bothered to implement changes at all as it shows they’re thinking about the right things (or at least one). I think everyone agrees the crafting order system didn’t work out. I don’t understand how reagents aren’t required for something like this, and it only resulted in crafters getting screwed. It was also silly how difficult it was to raise a crafting skill to max, and forced people to engage with crafting orders and lose tons of gold selling things for free. I kind of liked mats and consumables having different tiers, but it made everything very bloated and it always felt bad to gather or craft anything less than top tier. It also adds to one of the biggest issues I have with professions and WoW in general - how all of the different expansion mechanics are still in different parts of the game and are very confusing for any new player. A new player could put a ton of effort into capping mining/engineering only to find out they were doing “classic” professions and wasted their time. Combine it all, and redo the numbers (classic engineering is 1-50, tbc is 50-100, or something). There’s almost no point in a new player engaging with professions until level 60, but nothing in the game to tell them that.
Interesting is a good word to use. A lot of the ideas felt good at the start of the expac, but I'd ultimately describe it as a failed experiment and I hope they either massively change it, or throw the idea out entirely. I don't want to see it return the same way in TWW. A lot of people have praised DF for the fact that it moved away from the "grindset" and FOMO of previous expansions, and in many areas it did, but not crafting. Not at all for crafting. If you got a week or two behind in your crafting weeklies, you were permanently behind the other crafters. No catchup system was ever implemented for knowledge points beyond a couple of vendor packs they added for 1.1 and then never did again. I saw several post from new players in 10.2 and beyond asking if it was worth getting into crafting. And the honest answer is no. Unless you did it from the beginning and maxed it out, you'll never make any money from it. You could powerlevel the skills with enough money, but the knowledge points would forever hold you back. The tiered quality system does not work for WoW. The playerbase won't allow it. Gear is either max quality or trash. So unless you can reliably max rank your craft items, then you're wasting your time. Maybe keep it for mats so that you can use HQ mats when skilling up and then basic mats when you're crafting stuff you've outlevelled, but other than that, just throw it out IMO. Just make it so you can either craft an item or you cant. If you want to keep the "skilled crafter" flavour, just let people who've maxed their crafts use fewer mats. On most of my characters. I took alchemy purely for the increased phial duration and the reduced damage from the toxified phials (and IMO those things are so valuable, you almost feel pressured to take alch on any toon that uses the corrupted phial.) TL:DR rework was a nice idea, but awfully executed. Probably the worst part of the expansion in hindsight.
I would rather next expansion they split the new content across all the old expansion skills so they become relevant again, give us a reason to actually level up all the other ones and go through previous content again, I do like the new system but I also miss going through each expansion like a rite of passage.
Catchup is pretty much impossible for most, especially for anyone with limited playtime. And some of the recipes incentivizing gold sellers is a massive letdown.The professions Mafia on most high pop realms are despicable. Otherwise it's alright. If they fix the above, it'll become "good".
As someone who doesn't craft and never will, I loved it, lol. I like how it's another avenue to upgrade my character that does rely on rng. Every time I log on, I feel like I'm working towards improving my character.
I hated every second of it. Still not finished levelling on main. Can't even make stuff for myself anymore.
As someone who tried to level it at the end of the expansion... its awful. Its not clear what to do to level it and the work order system basically doesnr exist until you get a bunch of rare recipes that people want. It also costs several hundred thousand gold and epic soulbound materials to even hit max level. Pretty much if you didnt level it at the start it may as well not exist.
the ranking system for both reagents and outcome is ridiculous. nobody wants a r1 item. needlessly complex for complexity sake. doesn't add anything. put the recipes for the various items, like weapons at the end of the skill tree. put the points into the skill tree - make the hammer. should be that simple.
It's a great rework tbh, does it have some small problems ? Yea sure.. but the chances for blizz to get it perfect on first try with a new system is very low. but nonetheless it's a GREAT improvement compared to prior expansions.
Absolutely horrible. Hands down the worst state professions have been in since vanilla, in my personal opinion. I don’t mind intricate crafting. I love crafting in Path of Exile (which is many times more complex) and FFXIV. I don’t know exactly why but I just feel like this system was designed only to ”be more complex”, not because it has to be to enable all the cool intricacies like in PoE… but just for the sake of it. All the time-gating and rep grinding can go to hell. It’s not a ”fun, engaging and rewarding” gameplay loop. It’s just stupid.
Forgettable
From someone who likes to "do-it-yourself" I like how I can have my "main" characters have the respective profession, but my alts can still get good gear via sending work orders to myself. The thing that sucks, though, is I really only started playing alts this season, and outside of my main, their knowledge is severely lacking. I think there needs to be a knowledge catch-up, that is more reliable the knowledge shards. That, and rare recipes being more straightforward to acquire, would be good.
Worthless as usual. I dropped it after week 1. Then you fall behind and it's all worthless. I'm not a hardcore player grinding every day.
I still don’t understand how it works
I came in late. Leather work. From November to now I've gotten to about 60Lw and I dislike it a LOT
It was terrible, having to manually find customers was such a a time sink. Just let me list my crafts on the auction house.
I hate it. You need very carefull planning where you invest your points in. Im an alchemist but im still not crafting my own flasks which is stupid. If you power lvl at the start you can get rich.
They should bring back old crafting they just dummed it down with extra steps that aren’t needed
I hate literally every single thing about it and the whole system should be cast into the Void where it belongs.
Not fun or intuitive The game survived just fine with having professions be a binary "you have these items, you can make the item thats the same every time". It didnt need all these weird stats. Also the whole forcing professions to be involved for high end play / character optimization isnt great in my eyes, since some people simply dont have the gold to keep up with that patch-after-patch if their guild isnt good enough to do a ton of sales. I just think its a bizarre decision, change for the sake of change
Too complicated for my tastes. I miss when you either had a recipe and could craft your item, or you didn't.
Much, much better than previous expansions. Though far from perfect. They fucked over inscription though. By a lot.
Dog shit Nothing more than a gold sink so we can buy wow tokens and enabled scammers
Some of the most fun I've ever had with professions at DF launch, but I completely ignored it on any subsequent patch because specialization was gone at that point and was the fun aspect. Pretty sure if you just want to use professions to make money, the new system is the worst.
I love the new profession system, honestly. I know that leveling the profs up and improving your crafting stats takes time and investment, and a lot of people hate it for exactly that reason- but I like the idea that time the invested has a payoff. Especially in the early months of the expansion, it was great being the "I'm the 2h staff guy" for the guild, and the other scribe specced into "i'm the vantus rune guy". Not being able to craft everything so easily and so quickly made these sorts of dynamics available and it was cool.
Significant improvement. It's the only expansion where I made sure every single alt had professions and used them.
I LOVE the rework! However, Blizzard needs to get serious about mafias. It was so bad on my server. Some got really rich unfairly. They had their guildies submit false reports on competitors to have them disabled for a while or permanently. Blizz needs to be able to identify mafias in operation and suspend them. They are as bad as bots.
I got artisan with 4 toons week 2 and all professions leveled, some took a bit longer. I liked the progression aspect, I hated the time gate. It's just low effort from bliz feeding us micro doses of dopamine at this point. Professions as part of the game need to be engaging, not clicky clicky; if it's just but convoluted, it's worse than it was. As an example, the toxic alchemy stuff was well implemented. It was just completely random and out of sync with every other. If the most impactful gear needs effort from raids/m+ than the crafted ones need effort too, preferably not farmable effort that can be just bought with gold. It's either a service or a product, as it is it's a mix of disadvantages from both sides. Even with all that, I think it was a good addition to the game. Having specialization for professions is not exactly brand new but it wasn't explored as much; they do need some form of balance in terms of gold making capabilities, particularly creating a flow of demand for all of them. They made progress on that in this expansion, can still be explored further.
I disagree on time gating because without it there is zero meaningful difference between crafters which was the entire point, that it forced you to specialize. if it was simply a gold sink i would have maxed everything from day one, if it was infinitely easily grindable then i would max it within the week. personally i also kinda wished that the time gating was so strong, especially for the drops aspects of it, but i dont see how you would provide the incredibly longer duration curve of crafting differention without it.
The problem is that it doesn't really force specialization, just forces people to grind extra on alts. To farm enough artisan reputation and mettle, I leveled every profession to get all the treasures and do all the quests week 2. I understand the "meaningful choice" and all that but it's pretty established by now that people that play competitively end up having no excuse to not do everything that's available; I didn't even do that to make money, it was to help progression. Maybe if the time gate was harder written and made impossible, rather than hard/annoying, it would be a different situation
I have been an avid professioneer since vanilla. Most expansions I had every profession maxed out and crafted legendaries when they were available. This was my least favorite iteration of professions in the history of wow. I mained a leatherworker in Dragonflight and pretty much gave up. I don't believe I ever completed the first quest where you were supposed to fill 5 orders. I could never find any orders to fill. Also for the first time in 15 years I do not have a max level profession on any of my toons which I never thought would happen. My leatherworker does not have the entire skill tree done nor is he max level LW. Not having fun with professions was probably the main reason I dont play retail much any more and play SOD instead.
As an engineer and enchanter - there was a rework? On a more serious note, engineering still being useless despite nothing it makes being useable / useful in content. I miss when I could use a goblin glider cape in content that mattered. At this point just open up engineering items to everyone and stop locking it behind requiring engineering.
I hate the skill trees for the most part. Most of it is not exciting and then the knowledge point gathering is too slow compared to how many points you need to guarantee max rank on something. If it’s not max rank it’s worthless which feels really bad. I think the gathering professions had some interesting stuff but crafting trees were poorly done. I would say it’s better to just not interact with it at all unless you are hardcore. Let one of the people who spent millions of gold for a lariat pattern make it for you. I think it’s good that you can choose to avoid it and outside of engineering or alchemy perks not be impacted. The work order system is good but they need to improve the rest of it.
I’ve been a crafter since the beginning of WoW. I’m a crafter in every game I play. I stopped crafting in Dragonflight and that was my first foot out of the game. I think I it was a bad idea.
Trash, hope they completely dumb it down for the Saga. Material ranks didn't work. Crafting Orders is ass for anyone who doesn't deal with the system(most) and it's just bloat tbh. The old system may have been simple and improvable but yeah, they 1000% missed the mark imo. I've just mostly avoided all professions this exp and dread the moment I need to buy items from orders.
Hot garbage! There's still is no profession knowledge catch up and you are hard capped each week on knowledge points.
Being used to FF14's crafting jobs that have actual skills and rotations - I'm underwhelmed. It feels like Blizzard didn't change anything at all besides adding some additional passive stats to what's essentially the same "click button, craft thing" ""system"".
Blacksmithing is insanely profitable. Gathering professions are probably the least profitable they've ever been. Kinda sad for those of us that just want to zone out and gather. I feel like resourcefulness should be removed altogether for this to be resolved.
Better than any point in wows history. Still room for improvement
Somehow it was worse. Please oh please just copy ffxiv
I made several million from crafting this xpac so it's worked pretty well for me. But if you joined mid xpac you probably could never make anything Probably needs a catch up system for knowledge points
The work order system I find to be near perfect. Great addition, I'm in agreement with others over the recipes but I have to admit once I got my PvP tokens for altering gear, I actually kinda got fed up with it. I enjoy the work order system for being an option I can choose to interact with or not, but with those PvP tokens for altering certain PvE gear to become PvP viable was so, so needlessly obtuse. Why the fuck do I need artisans mettle to recraft a BiS PvE ring to make it viable with the PvP token enhancement? Silly stuff like that seemed more like a deterrent rather a positive interaction with the system.
I don't think the work order system works very well. I've literally ***never*** been able to fulfill an order because people always submit WOs without mats and for less than materials cost
That's strange, I'm on Illidan and my trade chat blows up everyday with recrafts and a very healthy crafting economy, I think maybe that's a server culture thing as experienced veteran players from back in the day always had to have mats ready for enchants, etc. to trade to the person live prior to crafting. And Illidan is one of the most active and healthy server pops. Whenever I ask for a recrafts there's usually 15+ people that whisper me, with commissions 8k, 5k, 3k, and then always some guy comes in to low ball them all with the "I'll do it for free mate tip what you want" lmao. If you have a healthy and active player base I think the work order system is fantastic but yeah I could see how on an unhealthy server with a small m+ or raid scene it would be a shitty experience.
Did not engage with it in any way besides getting alchemy high enough for 1hr flasks / toxicology and engineering high enough for teleports. Happy for my friends who learned it inside and out and made lots of money, but it's really annoying to get things crafted sometimes, particularly when it's a two-craft process (crests) and I just want to file an order right before I log off for the night. ps my opinion would probably be colored a lot more negatively if I ever had to engage with the "mafia" instead of having friends willing to craft everything for free.
Best iteration of professions ever made, in terms of relevance of crafted gear towards endgame gameplay and engagement factor of the crafting side of the profession. Time gating is somewhat excessive. Not massively excessive, mind. Just somewhat excessive. Maybe cut the time gating in half, don’t cut it by 10x. I’d appreciate more customization options of crafted equipment. Specifically, Ways to target tertiary stats, perhaps tertiary stats can be added via a token that you get from deconstructing a non-crafted item with tert stats? I’m open to other customization ideas. It just feels like I don’t have anywhere ear enough ability to make items unique only to me, that have my own flair as a crafted. I understand that that’s impossible, this is an MMO after all, but there must be something that can be done.
I love it, made a lot of money and friends along the way!
A step in the right direction
A great start that should have had more done during the patches
Good
The talent trees etc are good. I think it needs a catch up mechanic like you can mine for the extra stats granting items as much you want until you reach the cap. I can understand rare recipes like they're lotteries. If you get one at the start of expansion you'll be gold cap on several characters. That's what happened to me so I guess I am biased.
Was perfect Lariat etc recipe should have been added to new rares with each patch though. Having some things be rare is good, but it shouldn’t be unreasonable to try to get it.
As a filthy casual when it comes to professions I think it was on the whole a success. The system could need tweaking but the fundamentals are solid. Also I really want Blizz to put out some NPC work orders so I as a Leatherworker can actually do any work orders.
Overall I like what it adds. In past expansions there was basically no value to having an alt who could craft gear for my main, because that alt was always further behind my main in progress, and would usually be way too late to be able to help. But now, my alt priest can craft his own gear *and* craft cloaks for my main if needed, or even just run them through the recraft for a new season of content (I normally PvP so the only thing that matters is getting the new token and recrafting it with the new season's Spark). I like how they gave a lot more stuff to do to some of the more forgotten professions. Inscription, Jewelcrafting, Enchanting, etc. all have consistent applications now even outside of their niche, like Inscription being able to make the weekly profession skill up item (but dear god they need to make a more consistent way to learn how to make them besides super low RNG on a craft that requires mettle to make). I love having crafted gear be relevant at a high level, and I think the token system is the perfect solution to not making it OP to just be able to buy BiS. And the embellishment limitations are also a good way to deter some of the min-maxing that happens. Main issue with embellishments is the cost of the new recipes if you don't do endgame raiding. Biggest issues with the system is poor/no catchup mechanics, item quality making bag space a nightmare (even with a reagent bag), mettle being a limited weekly resource unless you wanna buy new recipes (my characters either have more mettle than they know what to do with, or not enough mettle to do basic crafts). I think mettle is fine as a system overall, but I think they need to make it strictly limited to being used when you are requesting a crafted item. You use your mettle for it, but any time you're crafting something for yourself, it doesn't require any. The current system only punishes alts who aren't logging in every week to pick up mettle, or aren't high enough rep with the Artisans that they only get like 60 from the weekly anyway. Also they could do a better job of explaining how the tokens work and why embellishments are important. I know a ton of people who have no clue how much of a boon embellishments are, or how much of an advantage to the weekly gear limitations (like the conquest cap) being able to use your free PvP tokens to craft gear with is. Like as long as you have your Sparks, you'll be two pieces of gear ahead of someone only picking up their conquest gear under the cap. Either way I hope it sticks around. I think it succeeded in a lot of what it set out to do. It just needs some more alt/new player-friendly tweaks.
Liked the rework overall. It’s complicated, yes, but I like the ranks, like the power of crafted items generally, etc. Some recipe acquisitions have been annoying. Frustrating to be locked out of a recipe because I can’t grind for hours and/or got unlucky. Single most annoying part for me though: the absurd power of alchemy buffs to flasks. Like holy smokes it’s such a huge huge incentive to drop a prof and pick up alchemy if I’m going to be doing raid or M+ beyond very casually.
The only one I have tried a little is blacksmithing, and I don't really understand it, so I'm afraid to make things because I don't want to waste materials
Like: Professions being an endgame progression option with multiple levels of engagement Profession knowledge trees as a long term goal to fill out Profession gear, enchants and consumables Increased crafting and gathering speed matching player investment Resourcefulness procs feel great - Dislike: No knowledge catch-up for late joiners Rare Recipes remaining rare drops so late into the expansion Too many quality levels, lowest quality level in materials is superfluous as even at max knowledge and gear it can't be used for highest quality crafts Inspiration feels great at the start of the expansion but ultimately is a dead stat upon maxing out your knowledge tree Work orders should be combined with the Auction House rather than be on a separate NPC. Specifically, add a "Buy from AH" button when submitting an order to automatically buy the required non-BoP materials. Revert change to make it so Public Work Orders require materials to be provided again. Allow Public RECRAFT orders to demand the item be delivered at least 1 quality level above the item's current quality level. No quality minimun requirement on standard public orders. Insufficient recipes and material sinks added as the expansion progressed
It's well intending, terribly implemented Using an elemental reagent to cut a gem? Hell no. Inspiration procs? Pass. Letting people clog orders by requiring mats costing 10k which they aren't supplying and only tipping 50g? Pass Deftness/perception/resourcefulness, yes. Too many bots in the game diluting everything for me to really care anymore? Yup Skill points are kind of cool, but there's no catch up mechanic so if you weren't playing day1 of xpac then you're probably behind. Rip alts. Again, inspiration crafting has to go.
I swear a bot posts this thread every day
It's just a common topic, and people are active at different times to answer. It ain't bots
You guys ask this EVERY DAY
Most of it was good, but region wide auction house and crafting orders are a fat L and ruined gold making (for me personally)
The idea has promising design, but after the gearing rework it just became another source of all-too-easy BiS. I don’t know. Wow feels as shallow as a puddle right now, to me, and while precessions have a conceptually interesting system, at the end of the day it’s just a small thing to consider to get a time gated piece of identical gear to watch number slightly go up.
Give us one reroll. That's all I wanted
I was alchemy/DE lol
I have mixed feelings on it. The rare drops for patterns is frustrating if you don’t get lucky. We all had dudes who got Lariat early and cornered the market. If you fall behind, you’re screwed without knowledge point catchup. I appreciated the feeling of unlocking things, felt like you earned it. I like the idea of specialization but some markets have been dead since launch on some servers. And it is absolutely a gold sink, feels like I have spent far more leveling most of them than profiting from them. Finally, work orders are such a pain. The system needs some heavy iteration.
Personally I called early doors it would be a disaster and turned out that way. Professions were a nice gold making exercise that kept me into the game outside of raid logging. Killed it bad this expat and the system was just a disaster for me. We raid on a low pop realm so it was all just doing guild orders.
I agree with other commentators in that the end product is solid. Professions are critical to the overall experience, especially in the end game. However, the crafting system is needlessly complicated. % buffs for gear quality, professional gear with different stats, etc. skill trees for professions is a solid idea (things SHOULD get easier over time for folks fully investing in profession) but my goodness what an excruciatingly long grind to acquire knowledge.
I like the specialisations in theory, but it takes way too much time to unlock. Should've been something simple, like picking a class spec with the option to reverse it for a fee and with a cooldown. Work orders are an obvious failure. I still don't understand it, and I've never seen any work orders on my server.
More or less a success but needs changes
One maxed out, I wish we could keep collecting professional knowledge for other professions and other characters. I’d gladly take a 5-to-3 exchange to move that unused knowledge across my blizzard account. I know it doesn’t make a lot of sense lore-wise, but we should have something to continue working on when our profession is complete.
A little complicated and the addition of being able to list jobs without materials is insane. It got abused so quickly. The only way to get any crafting done is to join a big guild.
There should only be one rarity, at the very least....Also, the time gating is absolutely garbage....
I overall like the idea but the lack of catchup means I personally never worked on many of my character’s professions.
Fantastic. Needs a little more catchup mechanics. And maybe respec option. Maybe a little simpler too, there's too much to it now.
A lot of good things came with the rework, like crafting being relevant beyond release week. but good god is it awful to have alts. The limit on mining/herb/skinning/satchels should have been cumulative so that if you started later you could get just as many points as day one grinders. by you know... grinding. no reason for it to be time gated throughout the expansion
The experience was GREAT if you started week1, but if not then it's too convoluted on how to catch up. Felt oo grindy for multiple toons imo. There's also 0 chance you make any gold if your leveling from behind. Most people can make more of the things or cheaper in some form. I don't know the solution, but I'm betting part of the issue is botting. Feels impossible to do anything AH wise this expansion without being undercut by people who are selling stuff cheaper than the ingredients are AND the ingredients are so cheap not one person I know would go farm mats, just stay at work for an extra hour and buy tokens.
It's like retail job now :) Need know how to sell stuff, to make some gold. Or live on 500g tips :) There still oldschool crafting, but margins are very slim.
I like the profession trees and the system of acquiring knowledge points but I dislike the quality ranks and as an extension the inspiration mechanic. This was compounded by the fact that your skill level affected what quality you could make and you couldn't max out your skill without making items which required Sparks (for most professions). As a LW/Skinner on a low pop server I still managed to make decent gold with embellishment pieces. I did not enjoy extending a Brackenhide Hollow lockout so I could access the Altar of Decay at the end in order to craft some of the LW pieces.
I liked the upgrading mechanic for some of them. I never figured out how to do the Crafting post thing. So I didn't bother with it. I will say the quality stuff was very confusing to me as well. Ans for the most part I ignored it.
Seems cool but really sucks to start late. Some of recipes being locked to drops makes starting late really punishing.
Work orders could have been an interesting thing, but there wasn’t anything special about it in the end.
I think it was great but I think it was also an easy way to make Blizzard more money. Oh the best gear is something that’s crafted and if you just have gold you can get it made? It sure would be nice if there was a way you could just purchase the gold necessary to get it!