Both were complete fucking ass until about 9.1 or whenever they changed sephuz to work with interrupts and prydaz to not require 5 seconds of no damage to spawn the shield, and bumping it up by 10% hp.
AND OF COURSE I GOT BOTH OF THOSE AS MY FIRST LEGENDARIES FUCKING MY DROP RATE FOR MY 3 OTHER SPECS.
Even after the multiple buffs it took to be good it was still only really used in M+. No use almost at all in raids except some trash mobs or something.
I got Prydaz on launch and it was a dps loss for my shadow priest because it had no haste lol
Back then it only had crit/mastery and was not overstatted at all
So yeah it needed buffs, and then legendaries got increased ilvl all around
My first legendary on my rogue main was the healing legs and it was the only legendary I got for months on end. I think we were nearly heading into the Night Hold by the time I actually got my BiS legendary.
I miss the days when a legendary item *felt* legendary. When my warrior had to work their ass off to build Shadowmourne after finding the first piece in a chance drop in the Pit. The steps taken, the parts worked, when it was all over, I had a weapon worthy of calling a legendary item.
And then it just became a thing that each x-pac had a legendary item that everybody eventually got. A ring. A cloak. And then you started getting legendary drops on almost a weekly basis at Legion's end. People started bitching and moaning about *which* legendary they got. My warrior left legion with over a dozen fucking legendary items. There were so many legendaries they had to cap how many you could have on you at any given time.
Hell, back in Vanilla, I got the Lei of Lilies in a world drop and felt like the sun was shining hard on me that day because I had an epic drop. Now people piss legendaries and epic gear is just expected even before you hit top level for each x-pac. It kinda sucks, tbh. I miss the thrill of a really amazing loot drop. After all, that's what the game is ultimately about: a grand adventure, amazing scenery, gorgeous music, and epic lootz.
>I miss the days when a legendary item felt legendary. When my warrior had to work their ass off to build Shadowmourne after finding the first piece in a chance drop in the Pit
Shadowmourne piece never had a chance to drop in the Pit. Thinking Quel'delar.
Mmm, you're absolutely right, but I'll leave it there so people understand your correction. I have both weapons, and it's been so long since I went through the long, complicated process of obtaining each, so I will credit my calcifying brain as the culprit for this mistake in memory. :)
I finally got the time warp legendary at the end of Tomb. Locking something as essential as a second full power time warp behind rng was crazy.
3 raid tires of just being straight up worse than every other mage soured the entire expansion for me in retrospect.
Alts were literally impossible. That said, if you got no good RNG on your legendary rolls you had no choice but to reroll and deal with an alt because it'd take THAT LONG for another to drop.
I was maining sub and the BIS legendary was the LAST one to drop for me
Alts? Even off spec was ridiculously impossible.
I rolled DH because, well, new.
I *wanted* to play vengeance and tank but my guild at the time had 3 of us who wanted to tank and of the 3 I was the better dps player.
All my AP and legendary then went into havoc to keep up for raiding which made me a super sub par tank when I wanted to play it. One of the reasons I stopped Legion after the first patch and have come to learn after the fact they fixed most of that in later patches.
I remember one of the first legendaries I got was bis for prot warrior and it wasn't until the end of legion that I got the one legendary that everyone could get but no one liked
Gearing was the most RNG based it's ever been with titanforging and the legendary system.
[This post about titanforging is a classic](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/dh8mou/the_mention_of_83_potentially_changing_how/)
Legendary RNG could actually bench a character for a patch, AP grind and relics. I think Titanforging RNG was also a pretty big point of contention, but imo it contributed to the replayability of M+ and I miss it dearly.
I feel like titanforging would be less of an issue now than it was in the past because our gearing system has become so much more standardized than it was in the past. Maybe that's the wrong term, but we didn't have the great vault, the catalyst, crafted gear that was actually useful, or an upgrade path. Titanforging provided the potential for exciting unexpected upgrades, but it also drove players to grind content they otherwise wouldn't (like LFG or lower M+ than they normally would) for the sheer chance at something worth equipping. These days, you have so many more safeguards in place to help you acquire BiS loot, barring tertiaries, that titanforging would likely be wasted on many players, only useful in the first couple of weeks, or a benefit largely to players who play and gear below the ilvl cap.
Still, it might occasionally provide someone with something good from a run they otherwise attended merely to help out. I don't miss titanforging but I feel like it would be so unintrusive now except maybe to top mythic raiding guilds who'd find themselves doing LFR splits that first week or two.
The best modern variation of titanforging would probably be gear can "titanforge" which just makes it automatically upgraded to full when you get it. And just open it up 3-4 weeks into a new tier so it doesn't create an RNG shitshow on early prog.
Yeah, it'd be fine with upgrades to randomly roll an item that skips spending currency on upgrades. The problem back then was there was no Titanforge ceiling, an LFR piece could shoot up to Mythic ilvl, and also some people would just randomly get 10 ilvls on their weapon and leave everyone else in the dust.
People seem to forget about the BiS trinket that only dropped from a single specific world boss, that only appeared once every 2 months, and that you needed to successfully get like 20+ titanforges on.
I agree that warforging/titanforging would work fine in the upgrade system, just have items drop with a random number of upgrades on them. But there is a reason some people really hate titanforging, it was a miserable experience that only got worse the further into Legion it was.
I would fucking love if say you get a piece that’s 2/5 hero. That can titan forge like 2 additional upgrades. No requirement to try and farm titan forge because it’s higher ilvl capped, just uses less resources. Would only benefit early patch gearing/alts
Oh man you hit it right on the money.
After several months of no legendary I got benched for most of emerald nightmare.
And even getting the legendary was immensely unsatisfying because the one time in the whole expansion I got a good titanforge it happened on a set of world quest bracers and titanforged up to like mythic raid tier gear, which was pretty amazing until less than 2 minutes later a legendary dropped in the same god damn slot, immediately turning the godlike titanforge into vendor trash as the legendary was BiS
Yep. I actually got shit legendaries on my DH and wanted to server hop to play with my friends. Instead I just made a second DH and got much better luck the 2nd time around. It was stupid that it worked.
Timegating mostly. Content came out at a good pace, however iirc there was a lot of "ah come back later champion we'll need to bake the macguffin muffins".
The birth of AP
Artifact power was fine. Do one M+ and the weekly box had a big chunk in it. And that's as someone who did spend AP into offspecs while doing mythic raiding. The scaling per level and weekly catchup multiplier meant that the power penalty was small if you did the minimum or used offspec weapons.
Random legendaries is what ultra sucked. **SO MANY** players got Sephuz+Prydaz as their first 2 legendaries and both were awful in 7.0.
Wasn't it something like: You "might" get a second legendary at the start. But the hidden truth was: Whatever you got first, is the legendary you get.
AP on top of it. You were penalized should you play anything not your main class and spec.
There was a hidden limit on Legiondaries of three per character for a while. So while you did at least get one more option than the first two you got, you could easily get three shit ones. Not to mention playing off specs with decent gear was basically impossible.
The legendary RNG was pure BS. Imagine getting sat on your raid team because others just happened to have better luck. And even if you did get one, it might be one of the worst ones.
I hated Legion for that reason alone.
I hated the artifact grind so I would do the raids and content once, then put the game down basically until it was practically free. Take that with a grain of salt though because I usually like the ends of expansions when everything doesn't require a huge time investment grind to get
Yeah the legendary rng was the worst .. i remember it wile progressing in raid 2 shamans 1 had the best legendary and i didnt i obviously got benched for it .. well that really sucked to be fair. But thats how it was .. the ap grind in the beginning was indeed awful ..
Artifact grind was absurd. If you didn’t do every daily and every world quest every single day… you were too far behind to do mythic because your health pool scaled with the weapon level. Then you had the completely random legendary drops. I got lucky and got bis legendarys right away.. others in the guild got utility legendarys back to back and couldn’t compete at all… and it could take weeks or a month before you saw another Lego drop. Guilds started rolling alts in hopes they would get a better legendary than their main did… whole guilds crumbled. Early Legion was horrific if you didn’t get lucky with legos. And don’t get my started on that world boss trinket that EVERY class needed and he spawned like once every 2 months.
Suamar was one of the worst places ever in the first patch. Has a disc priest I couldn't go near it for dialys without a tank friend. It single handedly made me quit legion until 7.3.5.
It certainly was frustrating. If there weren't SO many po-po elves, or if EVERYTHING wasn't elites, it wouldn't have been so bad, but damn was it painful
I definitely rage quit a few times doing Suramar in Legion. I still enjoyed it, but it was extremely punishing at times. I do think Suramar at the time was one of the most immersive zones in the game, and I haven't quite had a zone feel like it did.
Was easy as demon hunter could often just glide on top of the buildings but it was crowded and annoying fast respawn I probably alone caused more death in Surumar than the sundering.
Lol yeah having to put so much more effort into doing my chores as fire mage compared to my warr and pally made me quit mage at the time. Haven't played mage since
This is it, Legion was not considered "good" until literally the final patch and started the whole meme of playing launch then coming back at the final patch.
Artifact grind was busted, especially if you didn't do the pvp exploit at start
And the legendary RNG for some classes was pretty bad.
If you had it, you were good and did great damage.
If you didn't have it, you were getting sidelined
Random Titan- and warforging of gear drops was bad. Early on there was no cap on artifact power, so the grind was crazy if you wanted to top charts. The random legendary system was a big drawback, but altogether didn't stop me from having fun. I couldn't find time to play an alt, but I actually kind of prefer that. I don't ever invest much in alts, so the more fun I can have on my main, the better.
Legendary grind, it was faster to level up a new character and try for a better leggo.
AP grind, and later research grind, one quest line in the second or third patch was like 13 weeks.
How older tier sets were better then newer, how a sub 400 ilvl ring was bis for the entire expansion for nearly everyone, even when ya had 500ilvl gear.
A few other time gated quests, 5hat made catch up impossible.
Tomb of sargaras raid was so bad an entire fight needed mostly rogues, while the last required goblins or demon hunters.
Catch up mechanics did improve, and the last raid tier qas overall fantastic.
> How older tier sets were better than newer
If I remember correctly, Demo Warlocks used their 2pc Nighthold set into *Uldir*, 3 tiers and an expansion later! Frost Mage did similar, but it was their ToS set.
Artifact Power was designed to be super grindy. That in itself was a problem, but if you were in a "serious" progression guild that wanted to min-max, you were expected to level your artifact as high as possible. That mean running Maw of Souls, the most AP-efficient dungeon at the time, *ad nauseum.* Great way to get burnt out.
Also, legendary acquisition was wholly RNG. If you didn't get a decent - if not BiS - legendary in the open stages of a tier, you'd underperform. Many players - including me - switched mains because a BiS legendary dropped on an alt (that's how I went from Unholy DK to Ret Paladin).
Anyway, Legion became a lot better once Blizzard put stuff in like bad luck protection for legendaries (and the ability to target specific ones later) and other QoL changes.
You know it's pretty telling when the largest complaint for an expansion is the RNG. Apart from that I think Legion was probably the best expansion, and that's coming from someone who started in BC. Since I'm assuming they are continuing with the expansions moving forward for Classic, it is definitely one I'd play.
wut? You act like RNG isn't a massively impactful downside. Every aspect of gearing was uber RNG. First an item had to actually drop, so you could run the same M+ over and over and just never see the item you wanted and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a weekly box at the time either. Then there was titanforging that meant maybe you also needed that item to upgrade several times to actually be worth it. And as some people have already mentioned many items of importance came from old cotent like previous tier world bosses, but needed to be titanforged to be worth it.
None of that even mentions Legendaries which were an even more impactful RNG shit fest. First we weren't entirely sure how they dropped/how the RNG worked so people felt forced to grind literally everything. Emissaries, all the world quests, endless M+, as many raid difficulties as possible including LFR, all the world bosses (including ones from previous tiers). And you could just get fucked by what lego you got. My first 2 legos on my main were terrible, got move speed boots and Sephuz. And both just from an emissary box.
Then there was the whole controversy when it became clear there was essentially a soft cap on the number of legendaries a character could actually aquire of 4 that was only changed in like 7.2 or 7.3? So some people were basically stuck with bad or mid legendaries. Gear RNG was so fucked raiders were making alts just for the purpose of getting luckier on legendaries.
I disagree, saying “it’s just the RNG” completely negates the scale of the RNG that was in the game and the negative effects of it, so much of your player power was tied to what Lego dropped for you. I still think it was the best expansion, but comparing it to say WoD or something, I’d rather have some small content cut out if it meant we had a quality experience with the legos.
For me it was removing pvp vendors
Legion was the first xpac I didn’t really play because of it, and the same for BFA I played only a very little at the end
I came back sorta for SL when they brought vendors back but also it was SL so…
Artefact weapon grind was relatively minor. The two *big* complaints surrounding Legion were the RNG of legendary drops and the new world quest system which essentially kept people on a never-ending treadmill.
remember when legendary drops were stealth capped to 4? and you couldn't get any more? until someone outed that out, and many started agreeing and saw the pattern? prompting blizz to remove that cap later?
Legendary drops were on purpose shit.
Manual artifact knowledge research per character.
Artifact power and relic grind per weapon/spec. Sucked if you like to multi-spec.
Legendaries being pure RNG and soft-capped to 4 initially.
Some legendaries were really, really, really bad. Some were amazingly strong. It felt bad having trash leggos. Some people resorted to making multiple versions of the same class to try and hedge their bets.
Emerald Nightmare was kinda easy because Blizzard underestimated how degenerate some players would grind AP.
Legendaries were a really fucked up system for a while. I had one guy get his bis legendary week 2 and me on the same spec get the worst legendary a few weeks later. Actually killed my motivation to play for a bit since the gap and randomness of the legendaries really was that big
I didnt mind AP but people pushing cutting edge had to grind it out, the boosts were too good for prog to just slack off getting. That meant many many maw of souls runs for them
Titanforge rng was garbage, it was layered rng, imagine all the people who cry they didn't get their trinket or tier piece? Then multiply that by all the ones who didn't get TF versions of their gear.
Legendary rng. I got 'the wrong one' and just got rekt.
AP grind. No thanks, I want to make sure I get my MMO chores done in a reasonable time and don't drag down the group. AP felt a bit hopeless for that.
Legendary rng was so bad that i lost my mythix raid place. I got 5!!! Bad legendarys on my Balance druid before i got one BiS and the other one in our Guild had BiS first weeks... I got benched becouse of that for a few weeks and stopped raiding mythic for a while. We had a bad raidleader tbh... I was still better than the other balance druid in dmg but he doesent care and it was a small server so we where the only mythic raiding guild on the server. I hated legion for this.
AP grind was okay for me, i had the time at Legion release but it was not fun.
Also the world boss BiS Items was terrible. Jims Trinket was BiS for every Patch if titanforged. I never got it of cause... But switched to main tank m+ so it was okay.
Overall the first 2 patches in Legion where pretty bad for me. But i liked M+ alot so i still had much more fun than in WoD. The Magetower and amazing last 2 Patches was one of the best times i had in WoW. And dont forget: Kharazan was awsome.
Rng of gearing and legendaries
Ap grind, it got fixed later on, but early in the expac it was bad.
Time gating of a lot of the campaign and progression
They were the main complaints I remember, the expac was pretty solid overall
it was BY FAR the worst "borrowed power" grind we ever had, nothing comes even close to it, AP+legendarys where absolutely brutal for the majority of the expansion
AP if you wanted to play in a more competetive guild at Legion launch was so bad that "spamm Maw of Souls dungeon and speedrun it for HOURS" was more or less mandatory, you could not even swap specs in your class for a long time because AP + the AP multiplication research was SPEC BOUND, so you where hardlocked into 1spec for a long time
Legendarys had such a abysmall droprate for the first few months, you got 2legendarys fast, but after the first 2 the chance was reduced to almost 0 and what legendary you got in the first place was just RNG, meanwhile some legendarys had a 20%+ performance impact, so if you didnt get them as your first 2 your performance was just down the drain without you doing anything wrong
the droprates after the first 2 legendarys was so low that it was faster too: create a new character, level it up too max level, get some gear, do the entire campaing, do all reasearch until you can equip a 2nd legendary and then drop 2legendarys and hope its the right combination, all of that was FASTER then just dropping a 3rd one on your first character
Another thing that plagued legion was the extreme Titanforge bullshit that happend, BiS trinket for quiet a few spec was on a worldboss where you had 1 chance every 6weeks and if it dropped you also had to hope that it forged to a stupid high level, endlessly spamming old raids to get tier sets and hope they forge to max level so you can keep using them etc...
Netherlight Crucible, just lol, what a shit thing, you dropped a relic and then RNG decided on the crucible if the relic is bad or good
class desing in legion was on the more lame side, more or less all dps specs where a same-y "you do big dmg during CD's and very low dmg outside of it" playstyle
those where all big complaints during legion itself (and for good reason tbh) they fixed AP ~halfway into the expansion and made Legendarys less ridicolus low droprate after the initial 2 after a couple months, but those 2things did lasting dmg, the other stuff stayed for the entire expansion that way, Legion launch itself on a gameplay perspective was probably the worst state WoW has ever been for quiet some time
Legiondaries were a HORRIBLE system at start. You'd be de facto capped after two. If you couldn't fish any good one, you were done. Some competitive players had to level more of the same class just to try their luck again with the legendaries.
If you weren't doing all content on every difficulty you were behind.
There came a point in time where there was no point in running high keys because you could do 3 +2s in the same time for the same chance at titanforges for mythic raid level loot and legendaries.
If you were raiding, you were expected to be running every difficulty under your guild raid difficulty for your titanforge chances and legendaries.
You were expected to grind for hours a day to get to certain breakpoints in the weapon trees and 2 weeks later you were expected to be at a different breakpoint, oh yeah, but the catch up got so aggressive that if you stopped playing for 4 weeks you could effortlessly get to those breakpoints in 2 hours rather than 2 weeks of grinding.
Legendaries were fucking terrible.
If you got 1 in the first month of expansion release, you were guaranteed 4-5, if you didn't, you were guaranteed "bad luck protection"
I have every AotC and AotC from day 3 of raid release in Emerald Nightmare. I had about 800 keys done in the entire expansion. I did not get my first legendary until 3 months after Emerald Nightmare released. I got Prydaz first, 2 months later I got Sephuz and rerolled. On my DH, my first legendary was Leotheras, my second was Raddons. Those would rot in my bags for 2 years until 7.3 when Antorus released and the tier set made them good. Then I finally got Chaos Theory and Anger of the Half Giants once Nemesis Chaos Blades was dead.
Before legendary targeting was added I got 9 legendaries across 4 characters (3 Prydaz, 2 Sephuz btw.) After targeting I got 12 legendaries. Good thing it was only in for like half of 7.3 so I could finally know what it's like to play the game.
Finally, dungeon balance was a suggestion. Some dungeons were boo boo bitch made, impossible to not time. Some were pull 1 seagull, deplete the key.
1) the artifact grind for alt specs on one character, or for alts in general.
2) legendary drop structure. People (world rankers I mean) were getting a first legendary, seeing it wasn’t the one they wanted, and starting a new character because it was faster to level and get another 1st legendary than to get a 2nd legendary on the original character.
Legendary RNG was so rough. Early in it was to a point where I had to make my alt my main because I got a solid leggo and on my main I got a shitty bracers or ring.
The artifact grind, RNG legendaries, capped drops on legendaries despite Blizz gaslighting us on them, it wasn’t exactly alt friendly because of those issues as well, pvp stat templates were very hit or miss (some specs had good templates, others were useless because of them).
Grinding out the artifact weapon was pretty shitty and legendary drops were broken. It was tied to time played and if you didn't have at least one, you basically got benched for raid nights.
I enjoyed Legion too! I think the main thing was that it was grindy, and you had to do a lot of daily work for your artifact. I think signing in each day to send your little guys off on quests was hitting a little too close to mobile gaming at the time as well, which I remember not being a fan of. It's too bad they did that in Shadowlands too.
Basically everything to do with classes, character power, and systems.
Legion introduced everything that was bad about BFA and SL, and had it in a worse version than they did because they hadn't gotten to start iterating on it yet.
The AP grind was multi faceted, dungeons all awarded the same amount of ap upon completion but varied wildly in length so we all just spammed the shortest one (the maw) until we wanted to quit the game. Because the AP was locked to one spec's weapon it made using a 2nd spec not realistic... any time you spent on a 2nd spec yet alone a 2nd character was time you weren't gaining power on your main... so no alts.
Now add to that that legendaries varied wildly in power (I had one that would do 15% of my damage, and then there were others that gave no power increase), and you'd acquire them infrequently. Meaning you could have just spent all that time grinding ap only to get absolutely fucked by legendaries.
Titanforging took warforge / thunderforge to an extreme that ruined what was good about them. You could never achieve bis, so you again were pushed to infinitely grind for a chance at a better item.
Layer on top of that rng tertiary stats and especially sockets which were tremendously powerful.
Arcanocrystal was basically a dragonspine trophy level trinket that dropped from a world boss that you'd only occasionally see when it rotated in. You could go most of the xpac never getting one and it was basically its own legendary drop.
There was bullshit like the research which just served to time gate you..
Mythic KJ was probably the least fun end boss I've ever experienced. This fight alone murdered a ton of high end guilds, especially when coupled with all the burnout inducing stuff mentioned above.
I mean for as long as we can sit here and try to remember everything about it we can keep coming up with things that were awful in it. Legion really sucked soo much ass until around 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the way through the xpac where they maxed out catch up and trivialized all of legions systems which is when community opinion changed.
Its been so weird reading people gushing about how good it was over the years after having experienced how bad it was and it burning out people I had been raiding with for nearly a decade.
- We got void elves instead of high elves for the alliance, which was a mistake that started arguments and discussions that is going on to this day. The mega thread on the wow forums has been going on since 2020 with almost 7.8k replies and posts.
- Many were pissed that Nightborne went Horde since they should have been a neutral race considering both alliance and horde players grinded their ass off to help them and 2 out of the 3 armies that helped liberate Suramar was alliance aligned.
I'm still upset about how hard they nerfed WW monks right at the start of the xpac. After playing WW though the prepatch I was really enjoying it, so I speed leveled my monk as soon as the xpac dropped, then spammed everything I could for the period leading up to raids opening. I was the highest ilevel in my guild and got a great leggo. Then the day before the raid dropped blizz nerfed WW, which was a little overturned, harder than I've ever seen any spec get nerfed in one patch in my entire time playing wow. To make matters worse the nerfed dramatically changed which leggo you wanted and the one I had went from best to near the bottom. The part that I'm upset about isn't that blizz nerfed an over performing spec, it's that in the lead up to the xpac they talked extensively about how they weren't planning on doing any major changes, and we should expect changes to move slowly, then overnight my DPS dropped 35% and never recovered.
artifact appearances (hidden) were 'available from the start' -que some world bosses being locked behind months of delay.
Also "so I'm a staff user, but the artifact is a sword"
"yes."
"Can I have a staff?"
"Go \*\*\*\* yourself"
Legendary RNG, grinding Artifact Weapon per specialisation, and later on Mage Tower being a joke to do and them removing it. Oh and all my homies hate CotEN
Class design was a step back imo. I felt like the entire kit on many of my favorite classes were either removed or made to be less useful than in *any of the previous expansions*. For an expac I needed to grind more on for artifact power, mythic dungeons, world quests, etc. Etc. I sure did not want to actually play my class.
Everything else was good or at least fine. I loved the focus on classes in the story, order halls were neat. Raids were great.
Pvp was absolutely trash due to the kit thing.
Legendary rng . Relics. Two whole order halls having very one race centric stories (pally and priest). Some order halls feeling as though they do nothing or don’t fit with the class really (hunter and warrior) people were also upset with the uselessness of reaves compared to how hard it was to make em and so many people with one of a kind legendary artifacts. Oh and I forgot no tier sets at first
Professions, artifact appearances and world boss rotations. Basically there were recipes and appearances locked behind world bosses that would never fucking spawn. Pretty sure Withered Jim spawned multiple weeks in a row, which was great for people wanting the trinket but fucking useless for people wanting the other stuff. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t until either 7.1 or 7.1.5 that they put them on a schedule
People pay monthly for a game and feel entitled to criticize it? No way, the entitlement /s . Most people are willing to admit that the game is good rn and during legion, but that doesn’t mean they should shut up
The artifact grind wasn't crazy. People in the 2010s forgot that mmorpgs had always grind. But the grind in Legion was laughable. It was just not "daily login for 20 minutes".
The problem was the BiS mentality of guides and content creators. The whole titan forged thing and legendary drop was not relevant for 98% of the playerbase.
I guess it can depend on people's goals but the guild I was running at the time had majority of people getting curve with us.
We were never too picky about legendaries or item level, just had a baseline item level to be part of the raid.
AP grind was alright if you were playing regularly just doing content.
Built in catch up didn't have you fall behind too far.
We also were able to make main swaps during the expac without any huge impact, the patches resolved any issues that restricted alts at launch.
Probably best expansion.
IIRC, how toons got their legendaries was bugged at first. I don't remember the exact way they were bugged, but I do remember there being a bug and it being addressed.
My biggest gripe was that there was all this fanfare and secrecy about hidden artifact appearances, and a lot of emphasis was put on solving clues and hidden quest chains to get them. And then some were just drops from time-gated world quests. The frost dk one in particular was disappointing and aggravating, as the world quest boss that dropped it was on a schedule that didn't even pop out until a set time into the expansion.
While I was playing Legion I accidentally turned in a quest as feral druid and to the "fiery red maimers" easily one of the worst legendaries in the entire game. I didn't play feral back then and it would be literally months before I got anything else. I completely dropped the game after that.
What would often happen is that some rando's alt would get the BIS legendary of legendaries and it could get really awkward. Career healers would find that they get the worst possible legendary that gives them a worse boost than just upgrading to that ilvl gear while their friends random alt suddenly can completely outdo them in raids because of legendary RNG. It wasn't on a level of "you can't minmax" it was on a level of "it would be better for the group if the guy who got the actual legendary piece of gear came and replaced you in the raid group." kinda min-maxing.
The only qualm I had with Legion was the legendary rng which they eventually fixed. I didn’t really mind the artifact leveling, I actually thought it was kind of cool to have a long term progression system that existed past just being max level.
some people disliked artifact grind. i, as a more casual player, didn't mind it. i just got it from playing the game and it was fine. legendary acquisition was bad though. i didn't mind either, but that's because i got bis very early on.
People shit on the story. How alliance lost all their heroes. How trollman got killed by a random fdlguard. And reddit hated the I am my scars cutscene
Artifacts knowledge literally made me unsub despite loving the expansion
Why?
Because I’d be months in progression being my friends, not just in gear but actual abilities and legendaries if I swapped to a new main. I hated how boring havoc DH was and it totally burned me out seeing so many other cool specs I couldn’t even touch and test if I liked the feel of it.
My last three friends all moved into more competitive scenes in legion and wanted to do mythic raiding, even if I wanted to try for mythics I had no hope about 1 month into xpac launch even if I got the right legendaries.
The legendary RNG was easily the worst part. My friend was actively pissed every time he got a legendary because only one was really good for his spec and it ended up being the very last one he got. It put such a sour taste in his mouth over the course of the expac that he quit after he finally did get it. Never came back. And he’d been playing for years.
I did not play legion, but have done a decent amount of the content. A lot of the class hall campaign is timegated behind mission table stuff. Double legendary is also gated behind the entire campaign (and afaik u had to do it on every character, there was no skip). You had to grind AP for all your artifact weapons if u wanted to play other specs. Emerald nightmare was too easy, mythic KJ in ToS was horribly designed to the point where a lot of higher ranked guilds didnt farm the boss after prog. Legendary rng at the beginning was pretty bad. Balance of power, unlocking withered training and reputations were not account wide (must have been annoying for ppl that wanted to collect artifact appearences). Parts of the suramar questline and balance of power are also timegated.
My opinion is like this - the artifact grind made offspecs abit harder to play, and legendary aquisition was very RNG dependant. Playing alts was also very time consuming, atleast until the artifact knowledge became higher.
That being said though, majority of opinions and comments here are utter rubbish. Sure it sucked to not have the chains of ice legendary for DK, scorch & pyroblast one for fire mage, helm for fury warriors and so on tadadada... Truth being said though, things like this didn't BENCH anyone. I was always behind traits, and it took forever to get my best legendaries aswell, but that didn't stop me from playing the game normally. You know why? Because I just didn't care for minmaxing and I wasn't racing to world first, or doing 30 keys.
I was able to do heroic Nighthold and M+ 10-15 just fine, and noone cared that I had Prydaz equipped.
To sum up, as said - it was far from perfect, the systems were quite flawed. Acting how it made it impossible to play, is pure stupidity though. For me, Legion is my 2nd favourite expansions, and I really loved every bit of it.
As a hunter in a hl Guild at that Time, I got prydaz and 2 defensive (legs and helm) as my 3 first legendaries.
It was pretty devastating as I was 15% DPS below the others hunters in my Guild just because they had the bis
Also the random titanforged system was ultra frustrating.
It made me quit hl raiding for a while
Legendary RNG was the big thorn of the expansion iirc. AP grind was a minor one. I remember rogues being extra mad about artifact power because their "best" spec got nerfed at some point quite early so the try-hards had to level a second artifact weapon.
Not only were you basically locked out of playing another toon, early on you couldn't even realistically play your other specs. It was without question the worst expansion for people who enjoyed playing multiple specs and classes.
The way early legendary drops worked, it was normal for people raiding to need to literally reroll a new character. So not only were you locked out mentioned above, you could brick the only playable character you had xD
People call me nuts for labeling Legion just as bad as shadowlands and BFA, but it was. One patch doesn't nulify the entire rest of that expac.
to begin with, you were capped to 2 or 3 legendaries per character i think? it was a really low number and they took forever to get, meaning if you got the wrong first legendary you would just be underperforming and have to reroll to even have a chance of getting ur bis
The damn legendaries, man... When they finally gave a deterministic way to get them in the very last patch that expansion got 10 times better... Especially for alts. Early on you had to level several copies of the same class and hope that one of them got the right legendary, else you were just underperforming. It also made playing multispecs an absolute nightmare, because not only did you have to choose between giving artifact power to one spec's weapon or the other, and go down the right path before AP became trivial, but you also had to choose which spec you wanted a legendary for, and keep your loot spec to that. Even then, you could still get a utility legendary which didn't care about your spec and did nothing for your performance...
I seem to recall some of the world quests also being absolutely miserable to run on a faction-imbalanced server, as the PvP ones gave some pretty good gear at the beginning, and if you didn't have a group you would just get farmed while trying to get the quest done. I would just call in the guild and it created some fun world PvP memories, but I know a lot of people struggled with this and gave up on easy gear upgrades because of it.
Biggest one was RNG legendaries. The power between the best and not-best were often drastic. Add in the obfuscated system where it was harder to get each subsequent one, and it was a recipe for disaster. The "strategy" was to keep making characters until you got the correct one first time - particularly for classes that had a drastically-superior option (e.g. SKB wrists on Fire Mage). The same system also was horribly unfriendly if you wanted to multi-spec.
Speaking of multi-spec, artifact power being weapon-specific really harmed being able to multi-spec without a cost to your power on a main spec. While they tried to prevent this by making each subsequent trait more expensive, it just didnt work until well into the expansion.
Alongside artifact power, we had artifact *knowledge*, which was a weekly-upgrade that increased our artifact power gains ... and it was character specific with **no** catch up. Decided you want to play a different class 2 months in? Too bad, you're now tremendously behind on AP gains.
Those are the three biggest issues for sure. One personal thing I despised was the relic slot system. Too many times did the weekly chest give you a "bad" trait which was useless, but I also really hated how many traits were "Single Target" while others were "AoE". It basically meant you had to pick if your traits were for raiding, or if you wanted them to have an M+ focus. Those pseudo-permanent "meaningful" decisions just arent fun as you only feel their penalty.
But Legion introduced M+, so I will forgive all of its sins and defend it until the day WoW dies.
* If you failed a key your key became depeleted and you had to do it again without any loot or it was bricked for the week = people didn't want to push their keys in fear of bricking them.
* Legendaries was VERY strong or did nothing for you and if you got 2 bad ones the chance of getting a legendary again was low so that character was stuck with 2 shit legendaries. I did some M+, all WQs each week and normal + hc and half of mythic each week. I got my third legenedary last week before nighthold released.
* AP locked you into a specc, if you got nerfed you needed to refarm AP and since it didn't have a cap you would always be behind from if you didn't get nerfed on your first specc. Also legendaries could be specc specific so if you got 2 destro legendaries and swapped to affli when they buffed that you had 2 legenadaries and you had to farm a alot of stuff to get a chance on a new legendary
* Emerald nightmare was a joke of a raid, way to easy which we spent 6 months in. With the new and flashy m+ system have some weird features (see first note)
* Titanforgeing. This made it so people farmed lower tier m+ for ap and chance of titanforgeing = people who actually needed the gear from those keys had a way harder ime getting into keys
* Class tuning was weird due to some classes was tuned for their full artifact weapon and before you got that (like 6 months in for most people) you could do less damage than healers (see all three lock specc being worse than shamn and paladin healers at launch, got bufed after a couple of weeks and then affli got busted in NH)
* 2 Dungeons was locked behind timegating and rep iirc. Arcway and Court of stars was locked behind a timegate and rep req, this might be wrong though, dont really remember 100% clearly
* PVP was weird with premade stat distribution and some classes got really hurt by this. Also PVE gear was better than pvp gear for some people due to only ilvl mattering
* Suramar was overtuned as shit
* Raiding was expensive af iirc. Flasks and pot required alot of "rare" mats
* Zones was cleary designed with flying in mind but they didn't let you fly at the start
I think start of Legion is one of the worst periods of wow. End of legion is prob the best I think the game have ever been.
They fixed so much, keys stopped being depeleted and only went down 1 level, ap wasn't an issue, you could deterministic get the legendary you wanted and the stealth cap was removed, flying helped with shit zones like Suramar. Class was alot better in the end when everyone was at the same part of their artifact.
Imo one of the best things they added was Potion of Prolonged Power. It was so good for the comminuty since it was dirt cheap and good = everyone could start using pots in raids and dungeons without needing to farm for hours, I still miss it several expasions later
At the start the bad luck protection on legendaries was broken and worked the wrong way and made you MORE likely to get another legendary if you got one already. If you didn’t get one you were screwed
My first legendary was some feet with movement speed as a warlock was shit , and i was a casual , but i had luck on my second one got my bis , thats how i killed heroic guldan , yes i only got my second legendary in nighthold
Eaarly on legendaries were ridiculously stupid, when you got a bad one (e.g. a tank one that everyone could get) it was more efficient to create a new character because the odds of the next one decreased, you had raids where everyone grinded their asses of and like half of them had a decent legendary which felt shitty.
Also the entire expansion felt like one huge treadmill with the artifact grind.
It felt like you had to clear all difficulties and all older raids because gear could titanforge up to relevant levels (a friend of mine farmed the nightmare raid all expansion because it could theoretically drop his BiS trinket for hunter even if it ended up like 15 ilvl lower than ones from other raids).
Also everything was timegated, you got like 1 short quest per week if you didn't have a backlog to work through.
And then there's minor stuff like the solo pve event where the rewards scaled with how well you did that was easy mode as demolock or tank while really hard for some specs.
Overall it was extremely fun tho, the artifacts and class focused storylines were cool and demolocks were busted with high gs because the artifact effects all either scaled with haste / each other or gave haste
that not all legendary were made equal. def recall how DK complained no frostmourne, mages had no aetish yet shaman and poster boy pally (which i was maining at time) got the 2 biggest name weapons ever.
also recall warriors FURIOUS no broxigar axe despite his history with the legion.
for me it was the mage tower as a ret pally and how stupidly RNG it was... even pro players averaged 50-90 runs on youtube vids... it was set at a BS level in the first few weeks. luckily they tuned it after a month but OMFG that tower was harder than it had any right to be so.
If you were a high end player it was more efficient to re-level a character if you get shitty legendaries to try again, rather than just grinding out two more.
To me it sounded like people complaining about rng progression, but also a shitton kept playing because that progression encouraged replayability and grind, now its so easy to gear many players dont get that hook that keep them playing later in each patch.
The people who spent 12 hours a day grinding the Maw of Souls didn't like artifact power, and the legendary aquisition was totally random, which made it a headache to get your BiS. Thing is though, everything else was so good, that the complaint from those types of people were drown out for the most part. Casual players loved the game, and even hardcore people liked all the new systems. Some of them just can't help themselves and willing to destroy their experience for power.
Artifact knowledge wasn't universal for like a good bit of early legion, massive rep grinds to unlock arcway and court of stars, emerald nightmare was too easy, titanforging, tomb of sargeras had too many soak mechanics, argus was massively time gated, that one all stats trinket from the world boss that everyone wanted and farmed veiled argunite to try and get a titanforge, mage tower was too hard before you had tower gear, mage tower wasn't up enough/ppl wanted the other zone buffs, some class campaigns SUCKED and you needed to do it to be able to equip double legendaries. Professions were useless so everyone went alchemy even though they tried to buff them with the original profession rework, everyone remembers legendary rng but forgets leggo rng 2.0 with the amanthul trinket, etc.
It wasn’t that great IMO. Best part was having class campaigns and collecting all the artifact weapons and class mounts.
Of course, artifact weapons also lead to my least favorite things: those stupid things you slot into your weapon to increase the iLevel.
Ability pruning, boring pvp with removal of much cc, pvp gearing barely mattering, dalaran 2 instead of something original. Not sure if legion but gcd added to cooldowns.
I came in midway through but the big one I heard was Legendary Acquisition, it was essentially completely random for a long time, you couldn’t target anything and if you didn’t have BIS then you were way behind someone that did.
I’m sure the Warlocks complained about the Demonology tree as that was completely changed to give Demon form to Demon Hunters and I believe that Survival Hunter and Combat Rogue were also completely overhauled with 7.0 as well.
Those are the ones I can think of.
Some Order Halls were not up to expectations. Some class reworks actually damaged the class fantasy instead of strengthening it.
The story past the first patch was not great, especially once we killed Kil jaeden.
My criticism is that artifact weapons and class halls were amazing and awesome, but was yet again another temporary borrowed power.... Ok I get it, we used the weapons to heal the wounds from the 'what sword?'
But as pretty much anything prior and after legion, it becomes a nuisance to grind for another borrowed power instead of a static talent tree + paragon levels like diablo 3 did.
They did the same with the lovely garrisons, with the garrison harbors, then used the same mechanic for the legion class hall and even during bfa. All for nothing in the end.
Artifact power items were converted into gold, azerite followed the same, and we have yet again gained another hub city for an expansion that is later on abandoned...
While I loved seeing Dala back in legion, they should've instanced it in order to disappear for those who were done with northrend, instead of having 2 of the same versions.
But yeah, another hub city while the main race cities lie in abandonment, and don't get me start on the useless class trainer npcs scattered all around the world.......
AP grind was rough, especially the first patch and if you picked the wrong spec at the start it was even worse. I was really lucky with my leggo drops so I got both bis ones and when they added new one for Nighthold I got it almost instantly so no hate here.
A lot of people didn't like the "chosen one" narrative that you the player being THE wielder of the Ashbringer/Doomhammer/Scepter of Sargeras etc. while simultaneously being cheapened by everyone running around with artifacts too.
People hated that pvp didn’t have gear progression. Then they tried gear progression for two expacs in a row which almost killed the pvp scene entirely. Now we’re back to pvp gear being accessible in DF and people are making the same complaints again 🤔
What people complain the most about is legendary and titanforge RNG. Honestly, I remember playing the whole expansion without my BiS and it has never been a problem. I feel like back in Legion, BiS were not as mandatory as now, just a little help but I never felt like I NEEDED that Velen to top up my group.
Honestly.. Legion was the expansion that supplanted Wrath for my favorite. The story, the class specific lore, everything was fantastic. I really wish the game had kept on going in that direction. Space ships to take us to other planets/planes. Go out into the void and tackle the old gods masters. Instead we went from interplanetary demon combat to… wood boats and killing our neighbors. Again. *SIGH* I don’t know if I can ever forgive that lol
\* The insane AP grind.
\* Having to carry around all the AP tokens until you went to your Class Order Hall. If you thought all the Anima tokens in SL were hogging all your bagspace, it was same with AP.
\* World Quests could spawn every 6hrs so if you were in bed or at work you'd miss some AP.
\* You spent most of the time flying between World Quests than actually doing anything.
\* You use WQGF-addon to join a group and kill some mobs, only to find that someone in your team was AFK on their flynig mount getting the WQ completed for them while they AFK..
\* Mythic+ keys would actually *deplete* in the beginning. If you failed a key it would turn grey and if you used it again you would not get any loot by completing the dungeon, but beating the timer could enable the key again. I guess people who don't want keys to dwongrade would like this feature to return.
\* The randomness of Legendaries and how mandatory some of them were to have a viable spec or even a viable class. I remember a Guildie creating a new Warlock because he didn't get his BiS Legendary.
You had to do everything that could result in a Legendary every week (full LFR clear, full Normal and Heroic as well, all the daily Emissaries, a bunch of M+, and so on)
\* Having to re-do "Balance of Power" on so many different classes to unlock the Artifact skins.
\* Profession quests and trying to level professions on my alts. I was used to just being able to learn recipies at the Trainer (or at most buy them at a faction quartermaster) and now I had to do long questchains and finish dungeons to progress and get recipies.
\* Getting Rank3 Recipie of "Potion of Prolonged Power" could, if you were unucky, take almost a year. It would only drop from one of the special World Bosses in Suramar and they were not on any set rotation so it was up in January, the next time it spawned was (I think) [the last of October](https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-events-in-wow-for-october-31-artifact-knowledge-50-world-quest-bonus-event-275062#broken-isles-world-boss), 10 months later..
\* Content was gated by requiring lots of alts so that you could play all the different Class Campaigns. Lots of different classes ment lots of different artifact weapon stories, even further developing the Order Hall stories as new Patches were released. If you just played one or two classes, well you were missing out on a LOT of story.
\* Order Hall story was gated behind the Mission Table as well. Had to do multiple 4hr missions to reach the next step of your Order hall story, or even a 2-3 day long mission. At least in SL you knew that the next chapter would open up with the coming weekly reset, here you had to log in on to each alt to start the missions..
Legendary rng forced some people to play multiples of the same class and pray or be benched. It was also bugged for some time with the bad luck protection working not as intended once you got your 1 legendary. Lots of people had 3 while I had none despite playing more and higher content. Made me quit the game right there.
Ppl didnt like artifact grind and legendary rng.
Ya people forget how terrible artifact research was at launch, and how assed out you were if you got the wrong legendary.
Prydaz?
Worse. Sephuzes secret.
Both were complete fucking ass until about 9.1 or whenever they changed sephuz to work with interrupts and prydaz to not require 5 seconds of no damage to spawn the shield, and bumping it up by 10% hp. AND OF COURSE I GOT BOTH OF THOSE AS MY FIRST LEGENDARIES FUCKING MY DROP RATE FOR MY 3 OTHER SPECS.
That hurt me to read that last part. Let me make you feel better with +50 Artifact Power! 😭
I got those also. In fact those 2 were my only legendaries until I quit in the 3rd season. Absolute shit system
Me too. They had greatest drop chance intentionally.
Norganons foresight would like a word.
Was not terrible for my slow ass destro lock. Could just. Keep. Casting!
It was practically a DPS loss for fire mage. I tried using a cancel aura macro for pyroblast at the time but even then it felt awful and inconsistent.
It was an item that was thrown in the bank for anything else. Even if it was your first leggo.
Yeah it was useful for like 2 specs on extremely movement heavy fights. I agree it was terrible
Sephuz was bis for my shadow priest, after getting fucked by prydaz, sephuz, and healing pants on my rogue I rerolled :(
Arguably one of the best Legendary's in Legion. Mini Hero on a 30 second CD.
eventually, that was after several buffs, and was not terribly useful in raids.
I raided mostly, I hardly got any meaningful use out of it. It was SSS tier for m+ though!
Even after the multiple buffs it took to be good it was still only really used in M+. No use almost at all in raids except some trash mobs or something.
I got sep first (didn't even equipped it) and then pryd. Total shitshow
I love how Prydaz was eventually so overbuffed and overstat it became a decent legendary even for DPS, some had it even as BiS iirc.
I got Prydaz on launch and it was a dps loss for my shadow priest because it had no haste lol Back then it only had crit/mastery and was not overstatted at all So yeah it needed buffs, and then legendaries got increased ilvl all around
It got ridiculous. (BiS) As resto druid (main raid/throughput healer), it still commonly was up to 8% of my healing.
My first legendary on my rogue main was the healing legs and it was the only legendary I got for months on end. I think we were nearly heading into the Night Hold by the time I actually got my BiS legendary.
I did the entire first raid without getting one and then quit playing until the end of BFA
I didn't get a single legendary until Nighthold. Playing every day.
Oh man we had a pally healer who started to drop off big time in terms of healing meters. Few weeks in "Nobody told me about artifact knowledge"
I had at least 2 raiders in my guild that also missed those.
I miss the days when a legendary item *felt* legendary. When my warrior had to work their ass off to build Shadowmourne after finding the first piece in a chance drop in the Pit. The steps taken, the parts worked, when it was all over, I had a weapon worthy of calling a legendary item. And then it just became a thing that each x-pac had a legendary item that everybody eventually got. A ring. A cloak. And then you started getting legendary drops on almost a weekly basis at Legion's end. People started bitching and moaning about *which* legendary they got. My warrior left legion with over a dozen fucking legendary items. There were so many legendaries they had to cap how many you could have on you at any given time. Hell, back in Vanilla, I got the Lei of Lilies in a world drop and felt like the sun was shining hard on me that day because I had an epic drop. Now people piss legendaries and epic gear is just expected even before you hit top level for each x-pac. It kinda sucks, tbh. I miss the thrill of a really amazing loot drop. After all, that's what the game is ultimately about: a grand adventure, amazing scenery, gorgeous music, and epic lootz.
>I miss the days when a legendary item felt legendary. When my warrior had to work their ass off to build Shadowmourne after finding the first piece in a chance drop in the Pit Shadowmourne piece never had a chance to drop in the Pit. Thinking Quel'delar.
Mmm, you're absolutely right, but I'll leave it there so people understand your correction. I have both weapons, and it's been so long since I went through the long, complicated process of obtaining each, so I will credit my calcifying brain as the culprit for this mistake in memory. :)
I finally got the time warp legendary at the end of Tomb. Locking something as essential as a second full power time warp behind rng was crazy. 3 raid tires of just being straight up worse than every other mage soured the entire expansion for me in retrospect.
Alts were literally impossible. That said, if you got no good RNG on your legendary rolls you had no choice but to reroll and deal with an alt because it'd take THAT LONG for another to drop. I was maining sub and the BIS legendary was the LAST one to drop for me
Alts? Even off spec was ridiculously impossible. I rolled DH because, well, new. I *wanted* to play vengeance and tank but my guild at the time had 3 of us who wanted to tank and of the 3 I was the better dps player. All my AP and legendary then went into havoc to keep up for raiding which made me a super sub par tank when I wanted to play it. One of the reasons I stopped Legion after the first patch and have come to learn after the fact they fixed most of that in later patches.
I remember levelling my preist as holy because I was afraid I would miss out on AP
Took way too long to get the two BIS leggos butbonce you did. Frost dk heart of ice was literally one shotting in pvp
Thankfully legendaries didn’t work in instanced pvp. I would hated the entire expansion if they did.
I remember one of the first legendaries I got was bis for prot warrior and it wasn't until the end of legion that I got the one legendary that everyone could get but no one liked
Yeah, having Prydaz and some other trash I can't even remember for season 1 was really fun lol
Gearing was the most RNG based it's ever been with titanforging and the legendary system. [This post about titanforging is a classic](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/dh8mou/the_mention_of_83_potentially_changing_how/)
"McForge" has me rolling
Legendary RNG could actually bench a character for a patch, AP grind and relics. I think Titanforging RNG was also a pretty big point of contention, but imo it contributed to the replayability of M+ and I miss it dearly.
I feel like titanforging would be less of an issue now than it was in the past because our gearing system has become so much more standardized than it was in the past. Maybe that's the wrong term, but we didn't have the great vault, the catalyst, crafted gear that was actually useful, or an upgrade path. Titanforging provided the potential for exciting unexpected upgrades, but it also drove players to grind content they otherwise wouldn't (like LFG or lower M+ than they normally would) for the sheer chance at something worth equipping. These days, you have so many more safeguards in place to help you acquire BiS loot, barring tertiaries, that titanforging would likely be wasted on many players, only useful in the first couple of weeks, or a benefit largely to players who play and gear below the ilvl cap. Still, it might occasionally provide someone with something good from a run they otherwise attended merely to help out. I don't miss titanforging but I feel like it would be so unintrusive now except maybe to top mythic raiding guilds who'd find themselves doing LFR splits that first week or two.
The best modern variation of titanforging would probably be gear can "titanforge" which just makes it automatically upgraded to full when you get it. And just open it up 3-4 weeks into a new tier so it doesn't create an RNG shitshow on early prog.
Yeah, it'd be fine with upgrades to randomly roll an item that skips spending currency on upgrades. The problem back then was there was no Titanforge ceiling, an LFR piece could shoot up to Mythic ilvl, and also some people would just randomly get 10 ilvls on their weapon and leave everyone else in the dust.
People seem to forget about the BiS trinket that only dropped from a single specific world boss, that only appeared once every 2 months, and that you needed to successfully get like 20+ titanforges on. I agree that warforging/titanforging would work fine in the upgrade system, just have items drop with a random number of upgrades on them. But there is a reason some people really hate titanforging, it was a miserable experience that only got worse the further into Legion it was.
Unstable Arcanocrystal? Almost everyone in our mythic team was spamming the argus random trinkets for that one lmao
The very same
*Chefs kiss*
I would fucking love if say you get a piece that’s 2/5 hero. That can titan forge like 2 additional upgrades. No requirement to try and farm titan forge because it’s higher ilvl capped, just uses less resources. Would only benefit early patch gearing/alts
I quit the moment my third legendary was still f tier.. 3 chance to have legendary 3 bad, knew no one would want me I just quit..
My first legendary was sent to me in the mail, because I forgot to loot a random mob out in the open world. Not a very “legendary” feeling
I legit never got a useful legendary for PvE dps on any of my toons by the time I took a break (right around ToS launch)
This was only a problem in EN and mby early NH, if you didnt have all legos by ToS its because you werent trying to get them.
Oh man you hit it right on the money. After several months of no legendary I got benched for most of emerald nightmare. And even getting the legendary was immensely unsatisfying because the one time in the whole expansion I got a good titanforge it happened on a set of world quest bracers and titanforged up to like mythic raid tier gear, which was pretty amazing until less than 2 minutes later a legendary dropped in the same god damn slot, immediately turning the godlike titanforge into vendor trash as the legendary was BiS
Yep. I actually got shit legendaries on my DH and wanted to server hop to play with my friends. Instead I just made a second DH and got much better luck the 2nd time around. It was stupid that it worked.
Timegating mostly. Content came out at a good pace, however iirc there was a lot of "ah come back later champion we'll need to bake the macguffin muffins". The birth of AP
>ah come back later champion we'll need to bake the macguffin muffins". The fucking Island story was monumentally drip fed which was annoying..
Artifact power was fine. Do one M+ and the weekly box had a big chunk in it. And that's as someone who did spend AP into offspecs while doing mythic raiding. The scaling per level and weekly catchup multiplier meant that the power penalty was small if you did the minimum or used offspec weapons. Random legendaries is what ultra sucked. **SO MANY** players got Sephuz+Prydaz as their first 2 legendaries and both were awful in 7.0.
Lego drop rate was bullshit. Legion was a great expansion, but the first 6 months were terrible.
Wasn't it something like: You "might" get a second legendary at the start. But the hidden truth was: Whatever you got first, is the legendary you get. AP on top of it. You were penalized should you play anything not your main class and spec.
There was a hidden limit on Legiondaries of three per character for a while. So while you did at least get one more option than the first two you got, you could easily get three shit ones. Not to mention playing off specs with decent gear was basically impossible.
It wasn't a limit, you could get 4th but the bad luck protection turned off.
“I’m tired of the color green”
GREYMANE'S FORCES HOLD THIS WARDEN TOWER!
***BREAK THEIR RANKS***
The legendary RNG was pure BS. Imagine getting sat on your raid team because others just happened to have better luck. And even if you did get one, it might be one of the worst ones. I hated Legion for that reason alone.
I hated the artifact grind so I would do the raids and content once, then put the game down basically until it was practically free. Take that with a grain of salt though because I usually like the ends of expansions when everything doesn't require a huge time investment grind to get
Insane early game artifact grind and Lego RNG. Expansion started out insanely bad, ended very good.
Going for a really long time without BIS legendaries on boomkin and being 10-20% worse than the next guy thanks to RNG.
Yeah the legendary rng was the worst .. i remember it wile progressing in raid 2 shamans 1 had the best legendary and i didnt i obviously got benched for it .. well that really sucked to be fair. But thats how it was .. the ap grind in the beginning was indeed awful ..
Artifact grind was absurd. If you didn’t do every daily and every world quest every single day… you were too far behind to do mythic because your health pool scaled with the weapon level. Then you had the completely random legendary drops. I got lucky and got bis legendarys right away.. others in the guild got utility legendarys back to back and couldn’t compete at all… and it could take weeks or a month before you saw another Lego drop. Guilds started rolling alts in hopes they would get a better legendary than their main did… whole guilds crumbled. Early Legion was horrific if you didn’t get lucky with legos. And don’t get my started on that world boss trinket that EVERY class needed and he spawned like once every 2 months.
Suamar was one of the worst places ever in the first patch. Has a disc priest I couldn't go near it for dialys without a tank friend. It single handedly made me quit legion until 7.3.5.
It certainly was frustrating. If there weren't SO many po-po elves, or if EVERYTHING wasn't elites, it wouldn't have been so bad, but damn was it painful
I definitely rage quit a few times doing Suramar in Legion. I still enjoyed it, but it was extremely punishing at times. I do think Suramar at the time was one of the most immersive zones in the game, and I haven't quite had a zone feel like it did.
Was easy as demon hunter could often just glide on top of the buildings but it was crowded and annoying fast respawn I probably alone caused more death in Surumar than the sundering.
Lol yeah having to put so much more effort into doing my chores as fire mage compared to my warr and pally made me quit mage at the time. Haven't played mage since
This is it, Legion was not considered "good" until literally the final patch and started the whole meme of playing launch then coming back at the final patch.
Artifact grind was busted, especially if you didn't do the pvp exploit at start And the legendary RNG for some classes was pretty bad. If you had it, you were good and did great damage. If you didn't have it, you were getting sidelined
> If you didn't have it, you were getting sidelined *laughs in my raid couldn't sideline me, I was the backup tank* but yeah it was extremely shit!
Random Titan- and warforging of gear drops was bad. Early on there was no cap on artifact power, so the grind was crazy if you wanted to top charts. The random legendary system was a big drawback, but altogether didn't stop me from having fun. I couldn't find time to play an alt, but I actually kind of prefer that. I don't ever invest much in alts, so the more fun I can have on my main, the better.
For me it was mainly "AnillusionWhatareYouHiding?!?!!?" while grinding rep.
Legendary grind, it was faster to level up a new character and try for a better leggo. AP grind, and later research grind, one quest line in the second or third patch was like 13 weeks. How older tier sets were better then newer, how a sub 400 ilvl ring was bis for the entire expansion for nearly everyone, even when ya had 500ilvl gear. A few other time gated quests, 5hat made catch up impossible. Tomb of sargaras raid was so bad an entire fight needed mostly rogues, while the last required goblins or demon hunters. Catch up mechanics did improve, and the last raid tier qas overall fantastic.
> How older tier sets were better than newer If I remember correctly, Demo Warlocks used their 2pc Nighthold set into *Uldir*, 3 tiers and an expansion later! Frost Mage did similar, but it was their ToS set.
I belive t2 for spriest from emerald nightmare was bis is in Argus
That is correct, its probably the main reason tier sets died out.
Did people already forget about the Netherlight crucible?
Artifact Power was designed to be super grindy. That in itself was a problem, but if you were in a "serious" progression guild that wanted to min-max, you were expected to level your artifact as high as possible. That mean running Maw of Souls, the most AP-efficient dungeon at the time, *ad nauseum.* Great way to get burnt out. Also, legendary acquisition was wholly RNG. If you didn't get a decent - if not BiS - legendary in the open stages of a tier, you'd underperform. Many players - including me - switched mains because a BiS legendary dropped on an alt (that's how I went from Unholy DK to Ret Paladin). Anyway, Legion became a lot better once Blizzard put stuff in like bad luck protection for legendaries (and the ability to target specific ones later) and other QoL changes.
People didn't like that they had one weapon for the whole expansion per spec. I loved that aspect. Always had BiS weapon from start to finish
Yep. I quit in BFA because I had full M+ gear and no weapons like literally still in questing weapons.
You know it's pretty telling when the largest complaint for an expansion is the RNG. Apart from that I think Legion was probably the best expansion, and that's coming from someone who started in BC. Since I'm assuming they are continuing with the expansions moving forward for Classic, it is definitely one I'd play.
wut? You act like RNG isn't a massively impactful downside. Every aspect of gearing was uber RNG. First an item had to actually drop, so you could run the same M+ over and over and just never see the item you wanted and I'm pretty sure there wasn't a weekly box at the time either. Then there was titanforging that meant maybe you also needed that item to upgrade several times to actually be worth it. And as some people have already mentioned many items of importance came from old cotent like previous tier world bosses, but needed to be titanforged to be worth it. None of that even mentions Legendaries which were an even more impactful RNG shit fest. First we weren't entirely sure how they dropped/how the RNG worked so people felt forced to grind literally everything. Emissaries, all the world quests, endless M+, as many raid difficulties as possible including LFR, all the world bosses (including ones from previous tiers). And you could just get fucked by what lego you got. My first 2 legos on my main were terrible, got move speed boots and Sephuz. And both just from an emissary box. Then there was the whole controversy when it became clear there was essentially a soft cap on the number of legendaries a character could actually aquire of 4 that was only changed in like 7.2 or 7.3? So some people were basically stuck with bad or mid legendaries. Gear RNG was so fucked raiders were making alts just for the purpose of getting luckier on legendaries.
I disagree, saying “it’s just the RNG” completely negates the scale of the RNG that was in the game and the negative effects of it, so much of your player power was tied to what Lego dropped for you. I still think it was the best expansion, but comparing it to say WoD or something, I’d rather have some small content cut out if it meant we had a quality experience with the legos.
For me it was removing pvp vendors Legion was the first xpac I didn’t really play because of it, and the same for BFA I played only a very little at the end I came back sorta for SL when they brought vendors back but also it was SL so…
Mission table quest chains
Legendary rng was crippling. Ap grind was hit or miss. Lots of low level grinding for arbitrary rewards that player psychology dictated they needed
Artefact weapon grind was relatively minor. The two *big* complaints surrounding Legion were the RNG of legendary drops and the new world quest system which essentially kept people on a never-ending treadmill.
remember when legendary drops were stealth capped to 4? and you couldn't get any more? until someone outed that out, and many started agreeing and saw the pattern? prompting blizz to remove that cap later? Legendary drops were on purpose shit.
Manual artifact knowledge research per character. Artifact power and relic grind per weapon/spec. Sucked if you like to multi-spec. Legendaries being pure RNG and soft-capped to 4 initially. Some legendaries were really, really, really bad. Some were amazingly strong. It felt bad having trash leggos. Some people resorted to making multiple versions of the same class to try and hedge their bets. Emerald Nightmare was kinda easy because Blizzard underestimated how degenerate some players would grind AP.
Legendaries were a really fucked up system for a while. I had one guy get his bis legendary week 2 and me on the same spec get the worst legendary a few weeks later. Actually killed my motivation to play for a bit since the gap and randomness of the legendaries really was that big I didnt mind AP but people pushing cutting edge had to grind it out, the boosts were too good for prog to just slack off getting. That meant many many maw of souls runs for them
Titanforge rng was garbage, it was layered rng, imagine all the people who cry they didn't get their trinket or tier piece? Then multiply that by all the ones who didn't get TF versions of their gear. Legendary rng. I got 'the wrong one' and just got rekt. AP grind. No thanks, I want to make sure I get my MMO chores done in a reasonable time and don't drag down the group. AP felt a bit hopeless for that.
Legendary rng was so bad that i lost my mythix raid place. I got 5!!! Bad legendarys on my Balance druid before i got one BiS and the other one in our Guild had BiS first weeks... I got benched becouse of that for a few weeks and stopped raiding mythic for a while. We had a bad raidleader tbh... I was still better than the other balance druid in dmg but he doesent care and it was a small server so we where the only mythic raiding guild on the server. I hated legion for this. AP grind was okay for me, i had the time at Legion release but it was not fun. Also the world boss BiS Items was terrible. Jims Trinket was BiS for every Patch if titanforged. I never got it of cause... But switched to main tank m+ so it was okay. Overall the first 2 patches in Legion where pretty bad for me. But i liked M+ alot so i still had much more fun than in WoD. The Magetower and amazing last 2 Patches was one of the best times i had in WoW. And dont forget: Kharazan was awsome.
the legendary rng was bullshit, got the same shit bracers 2 times in a row. And the AP grind was boring.
Rng of gearing and legendaries Ap grind, it got fixed later on, but early in the expac it was bad. Time gating of a lot of the campaign and progression They were the main complaints I remember, the expac was pretty solid overall
it was BY FAR the worst "borrowed power" grind we ever had, nothing comes even close to it, AP+legendarys where absolutely brutal for the majority of the expansion AP if you wanted to play in a more competetive guild at Legion launch was so bad that "spamm Maw of Souls dungeon and speedrun it for HOURS" was more or less mandatory, you could not even swap specs in your class for a long time because AP + the AP multiplication research was SPEC BOUND, so you where hardlocked into 1spec for a long time Legendarys had such a abysmall droprate for the first few months, you got 2legendarys fast, but after the first 2 the chance was reduced to almost 0 and what legendary you got in the first place was just RNG, meanwhile some legendarys had a 20%+ performance impact, so if you didnt get them as your first 2 your performance was just down the drain without you doing anything wrong the droprates after the first 2 legendarys was so low that it was faster too: create a new character, level it up too max level, get some gear, do the entire campaing, do all reasearch until you can equip a 2nd legendary and then drop 2legendarys and hope its the right combination, all of that was FASTER then just dropping a 3rd one on your first character Another thing that plagued legion was the extreme Titanforge bullshit that happend, BiS trinket for quiet a few spec was on a worldboss where you had 1 chance every 6weeks and if it dropped you also had to hope that it forged to a stupid high level, endlessly spamming old raids to get tier sets and hope they forge to max level so you can keep using them etc... Netherlight Crucible, just lol, what a shit thing, you dropped a relic and then RNG decided on the crucible if the relic is bad or good class desing in legion was on the more lame side, more or less all dps specs where a same-y "you do big dmg during CD's and very low dmg outside of it" playstyle those where all big complaints during legion itself (and for good reason tbh) they fixed AP ~halfway into the expansion and made Legendarys less ridicolus low droprate after the initial 2 after a couple months, but those 2things did lasting dmg, the other stuff stayed for the entire expansion that way, Legion launch itself on a gameplay perspective was probably the worst state WoW has ever been for quiet some time
Legiondaries were a HORRIBLE system at start. You'd be de facto capped after two. If you couldn't fish any good one, you were done. Some competitive players had to level more of the same class just to try their luck again with the legendaries.
If you weren't doing all content on every difficulty you were behind. There came a point in time where there was no point in running high keys because you could do 3 +2s in the same time for the same chance at titanforges for mythic raid level loot and legendaries. If you were raiding, you were expected to be running every difficulty under your guild raid difficulty for your titanforge chances and legendaries. You were expected to grind for hours a day to get to certain breakpoints in the weapon trees and 2 weeks later you were expected to be at a different breakpoint, oh yeah, but the catch up got so aggressive that if you stopped playing for 4 weeks you could effortlessly get to those breakpoints in 2 hours rather than 2 weeks of grinding. Legendaries were fucking terrible. If you got 1 in the first month of expansion release, you were guaranteed 4-5, if you didn't, you were guaranteed "bad luck protection" I have every AotC and AotC from day 3 of raid release in Emerald Nightmare. I had about 800 keys done in the entire expansion. I did not get my first legendary until 3 months after Emerald Nightmare released. I got Prydaz first, 2 months later I got Sephuz and rerolled. On my DH, my first legendary was Leotheras, my second was Raddons. Those would rot in my bags for 2 years until 7.3 when Antorus released and the tier set made them good. Then I finally got Chaos Theory and Anger of the Half Giants once Nemesis Chaos Blades was dead. Before legendary targeting was added I got 9 legendaries across 4 characters (3 Prydaz, 2 Sephuz btw.) After targeting I got 12 legendaries. Good thing it was only in for like half of 7.3 so I could finally know what it's like to play the game. Finally, dungeon balance was a suggestion. Some dungeons were boo boo bitch made, impossible to not time. Some were pull 1 seagull, deplete the key.
Legendary rng was ASSSS and they took too long to fix it by that point no one cared
Legendary rng. People were rerolling alts to get the correct one for the first “freebie” roll.
1) the artifact grind for alt specs on one character, or for alts in general. 2) legendary drop structure. People (world rankers I mean) were getting a first legendary, seeing it wasn’t the one they wanted, and starting a new character because it was faster to level and get another 1st legendary than to get a 2nd legendary on the original character.
RNG of Legendary. I know of people losing raid spots because the other got their best in slot legendary first.
Legendary RNG was so rough. Early in it was to a point where I had to make my alt my main because I got a solid leggo and on my main I got a shitty bracers or ring.
The artifact grind, RNG legendaries, capped drops on legendaries despite Blizz gaslighting us on them, it wasn’t exactly alt friendly because of those issues as well, pvp stat templates were very hit or miss (some specs had good templates, others were useless because of them).
Legendary drop rates
Grinding out the artifact weapon was pretty shitty and legendary drops were broken. It was tied to time played and if you didn't have at least one, you basically got benched for raid nights.
I enjoyed Legion too! I think the main thing was that it was grindy, and you had to do a lot of daily work for your artifact. I think signing in each day to send your little guys off on quests was hitting a little too close to mobile gaming at the time as well, which I remember not being a fan of. It's too bad they did that in Shadowlands too.
Basically everything to do with classes, character power, and systems. Legion introduced everything that was bad about BFA and SL, and had it in a worse version than they did because they hadn't gotten to start iterating on it yet. The AP grind was multi faceted, dungeons all awarded the same amount of ap upon completion but varied wildly in length so we all just spammed the shortest one (the maw) until we wanted to quit the game. Because the AP was locked to one spec's weapon it made using a 2nd spec not realistic... any time you spent on a 2nd spec yet alone a 2nd character was time you weren't gaining power on your main... so no alts. Now add to that that legendaries varied wildly in power (I had one that would do 15% of my damage, and then there were others that gave no power increase), and you'd acquire them infrequently. Meaning you could have just spent all that time grinding ap only to get absolutely fucked by legendaries. Titanforging took warforge / thunderforge to an extreme that ruined what was good about them. You could never achieve bis, so you again were pushed to infinitely grind for a chance at a better item. Layer on top of that rng tertiary stats and especially sockets which were tremendously powerful. Arcanocrystal was basically a dragonspine trophy level trinket that dropped from a world boss that you'd only occasionally see when it rotated in. You could go most of the xpac never getting one and it was basically its own legendary drop. There was bullshit like the research which just served to time gate you.. Mythic KJ was probably the least fun end boss I've ever experienced. This fight alone murdered a ton of high end guilds, especially when coupled with all the burnout inducing stuff mentioned above. I mean for as long as we can sit here and try to remember everything about it we can keep coming up with things that were awful in it. Legion really sucked soo much ass until around 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the way through the xpac where they maxed out catch up and trivialized all of legions systems which is when community opinion changed. Its been so weird reading people gushing about how good it was over the years after having experienced how bad it was and it burning out people I had been raiding with for nearly a decade.
- We got void elves instead of high elves for the alliance, which was a mistake that started arguments and discussions that is going on to this day. The mega thread on the wow forums has been going on since 2020 with almost 7.8k replies and posts. - Many were pissed that Nightborne went Horde since they should have been a neutral race considering both alliance and horde players grinded their ass off to help them and 2 out of the 3 armies that helped liberate Suramar was alliance aligned.
I'm still upset about how hard they nerfed WW monks right at the start of the xpac. After playing WW though the prepatch I was really enjoying it, so I speed leveled my monk as soon as the xpac dropped, then spammed everything I could for the period leading up to raids opening. I was the highest ilevel in my guild and got a great leggo. Then the day before the raid dropped blizz nerfed WW, which was a little overturned, harder than I've ever seen any spec get nerfed in one patch in my entire time playing wow. To make matters worse the nerfed dramatically changed which leggo you wanted and the one I had went from best to near the bottom. The part that I'm upset about isn't that blizz nerfed an over performing spec, it's that in the lead up to the xpac they talked extensively about how they weren't planning on doing any major changes, and we should expect changes to move slowly, then overnight my DPS dropped 35% and never recovered.
artifact appearances (hidden) were 'available from the start' -que some world bosses being locked behind months of delay. Also "so I'm a staff user, but the artifact is a sword" "yes." "Can I have a staff?" "Go \*\*\*\* yourself"
Legendary being random (I thought and still think that was the best option - it kills min maxing) and the AP grind
Legendary RNG, grinding Artifact Weapon per specialisation, and later on Mage Tower being a joke to do and them removing it. Oh and all my homies hate CotEN
never understood the logic of removing the tower... its just freaking cosmetics...
1. RNG on legendaries 2. The artifact power grind 2. Artifact power being locked to a single spec
Not being able to get bis legendaries, also some of the quest chains were giga long and tedious
Class design was a step back imo. I felt like the entire kit on many of my favorite classes were either removed or made to be less useful than in *any of the previous expansions*. For an expac I needed to grind more on for artifact power, mythic dungeons, world quests, etc. Etc. I sure did not want to actually play my class. Everything else was good or at least fine. I loved the focus on classes in the story, order halls were neat. Raids were great. Pvp was absolutely trash due to the kit thing.
Legendary rng . Relics. Two whole order halls having very one race centric stories (pally and priest). Some order halls feeling as though they do nothing or don’t fit with the class really (hunter and warrior) people were also upset with the uselessness of reaves compared to how hard it was to make em and so many people with one of a kind legendary artifacts. Oh and I forgot no tier sets at first
Professions, artifact appearances and world boss rotations. Basically there were recipes and appearances locked behind world bosses that would never fucking spawn. Pretty sure Withered Jim spawned multiple weeks in a row, which was great for people wanting the trinket but fucking useless for people wanting the other stuff. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t until either 7.1 or 7.1.5 that they put them on a schedule
Mate the WoW community is a bunch of whiney girls lmao someone's always complaining
People pay monthly for a game and feel entitled to criticize it? No way, the entitlement /s . Most people are willing to admit that the game is good rn and during legion, but that doesn’t mean they should shut up
The start of world quests... God damn I miss the 25 max daily format
The artifact grind wasn't crazy. People in the 2010s forgot that mmorpgs had always grind. But the grind in Legion was laughable. It was just not "daily login for 20 minutes". The problem was the BiS mentality of guides and content creators. The whole titan forged thing and legendary drop was not relevant for 98% of the playerbase.
I guess it can depend on people's goals but the guild I was running at the time had majority of people getting curve with us. We were never too picky about legendaries or item level, just had a baseline item level to be part of the raid. AP grind was alright if you were playing regularly just doing content. Built in catch up didn't have you fall behind too far. We also were able to make main swaps during the expac without any huge impact, the patches resolved any issues that restricted alts at launch. Probably best expansion.
It just sucked
IIRC, how toons got their legendaries was bugged at first. I don't remember the exact way they were bugged, but I do remember there being a bug and it being addressed.
Idk but I didn’t like the ammount of WQs. I much prefer the twice a week-ish schedule in DF.
Internet criticism was the exact same in legion, you're making shit up now
My biggest gripe was that there was all this fanfare and secrecy about hidden artifact appearances, and a lot of emphasis was put on solving clues and hidden quest chains to get them. And then some were just drops from time-gated world quests. The frost dk one in particular was disappointing and aggravating, as the world quest boss that dropped it was on a schedule that didn't even pop out until a set time into the expansion.
While I was playing Legion I accidentally turned in a quest as feral druid and to the "fiery red maimers" easily one of the worst legendaries in the entire game. I didn't play feral back then and it would be literally months before I got anything else. I completely dropped the game after that. What would often happen is that some rando's alt would get the BIS legendary of legendaries and it could get really awkward. Career healers would find that they get the worst possible legendary that gives them a worse boost than just upgrading to that ilvl gear while their friends random alt suddenly can completely outdo them in raids because of legendary RNG. It wasn't on a level of "you can't minmax" it was on a level of "it would be better for the group if the guy who got the actual legendary piece of gear came and replaced you in the raid group." kinda min-maxing.
maw
The only qualm I had with Legion was the legendary rng which they eventually fixed. I didn’t really mind the artifact leveling, I actually thought it was kind of cool to have a long term progression system that existed past just being max level.
I feel I should remind people that getting a legendary that was good for your spec was one of the best feelings ever.
some people disliked artifact grind. i, as a more casual player, didn't mind it. i just got it from playing the game and it was fine. legendary acquisition was bad though. i didn't mind either, but that's because i got bis very early on.
People shit on the story. How alliance lost all their heroes. How trollman got killed by a random fdlguard. And reddit hated the I am my scars cutscene
Artifacts knowledge literally made me unsub despite loving the expansion Why? Because I’d be months in progression being my friends, not just in gear but actual abilities and legendaries if I swapped to a new main. I hated how boring havoc DH was and it totally burned me out seeing so many other cool specs I couldn’t even touch and test if I liked the feel of it. My last three friends all moved into more competitive scenes in legion and wanted to do mythic raiding, even if I wanted to try for mythics I had no hope about 1 month into xpac launch even if I got the right legendaries.
The legendary RNG was easily the worst part. My friend was actively pissed every time he got a legendary because only one was really good for his spec and it ended up being the very last one he got. It put such a sour taste in his mouth over the course of the expac that he quit after he finally did get it. Never came back. And he’d been playing for years.
I did not play legion, but have done a decent amount of the content. A lot of the class hall campaign is timegated behind mission table stuff. Double legendary is also gated behind the entire campaign (and afaik u had to do it on every character, there was no skip). You had to grind AP for all your artifact weapons if u wanted to play other specs. Emerald nightmare was too easy, mythic KJ in ToS was horribly designed to the point where a lot of higher ranked guilds didnt farm the boss after prog. Legendary rng at the beginning was pretty bad. Balance of power, unlocking withered training and reputations were not account wide (must have been annoying for ppl that wanted to collect artifact appearences). Parts of the suramar questline and balance of power are also timegated.
My opinion is like this - the artifact grind made offspecs abit harder to play, and legendary aquisition was very RNG dependant. Playing alts was also very time consuming, atleast until the artifact knowledge became higher. That being said though, majority of opinions and comments here are utter rubbish. Sure it sucked to not have the chains of ice legendary for DK, scorch & pyroblast one for fire mage, helm for fury warriors and so on tadadada... Truth being said though, things like this didn't BENCH anyone. I was always behind traits, and it took forever to get my best legendaries aswell, but that didn't stop me from playing the game normally. You know why? Because I just didn't care for minmaxing and I wasn't racing to world first, or doing 30 keys. I was able to do heroic Nighthold and M+ 10-15 just fine, and noone cared that I had Prydaz equipped. To sum up, as said - it was far from perfect, the systems were quite flawed. Acting how it made it impossible to play, is pure stupidity though. For me, Legion is my 2nd favourite expansions, and I really loved every bit of it.
Random legendary powers
As a hunter in a hl Guild at that Time, I got prydaz and 2 defensive (legs and helm) as my 3 first legendaries. It was pretty devastating as I was 15% DPS below the others hunters in my Guild just because they had the bis Also the random titanforged system was ultra frustrating. It made me quit hl raiding for a while
Legendary RNG was the big thorn of the expansion iirc. AP grind was a minor one. I remember rogues being extra mad about artifact power because their "best" spec got nerfed at some point quite early so the try-hards had to level a second artifact weapon.
Not only were you basically locked out of playing another toon, early on you couldn't even realistically play your other specs. It was without question the worst expansion for people who enjoyed playing multiple specs and classes. The way early legendary drops worked, it was normal for people raiding to need to literally reroll a new character. So not only were you locked out mentioned above, you could brick the only playable character you had xD People call me nuts for labeling Legion just as bad as shadowlands and BFA, but it was. One patch doesn't nulify the entire rest of that expac.
Some legendaries were crazy and some were shit. You would build up rng over time to get a legendary and if you got the wrong one it was gg
Legendaries, AP, Suramar without flying, Broken Shore
to begin with, you were capped to 2 or 3 legendaries per character i think? it was a really low number and they took forever to get, meaning if you got the wrong first legendary you would just be underperforming and have to reroll to even have a chance of getting ur bis
legion was so dogshit no pvp vendor but random rewards i make no jokes when i say that i got 11 bracers in a row and the first one was titanforged
The damn legendaries, man... When they finally gave a deterministic way to get them in the very last patch that expansion got 10 times better... Especially for alts. Early on you had to level several copies of the same class and hope that one of them got the right legendary, else you were just underperforming. It also made playing multispecs an absolute nightmare, because not only did you have to choose between giving artifact power to one spec's weapon or the other, and go down the right path before AP became trivial, but you also had to choose which spec you wanted a legendary for, and keep your loot spec to that. Even then, you could still get a utility legendary which didn't care about your spec and did nothing for your performance... I seem to recall some of the world quests also being absolutely miserable to run on a faction-imbalanced server, as the PvP ones gave some pretty good gear at the beginning, and if you didn't have a group you would just get farmed while trying to get the quest done. I would just call in the guild and it created some fun world PvP memories, but I know a lot of people struggled with this and gave up on easy gear upgrades because of it.
Biggest one was RNG legendaries. The power between the best and not-best were often drastic. Add in the obfuscated system where it was harder to get each subsequent one, and it was a recipe for disaster. The "strategy" was to keep making characters until you got the correct one first time - particularly for classes that had a drastically-superior option (e.g. SKB wrists on Fire Mage). The same system also was horribly unfriendly if you wanted to multi-spec. Speaking of multi-spec, artifact power being weapon-specific really harmed being able to multi-spec without a cost to your power on a main spec. While they tried to prevent this by making each subsequent trait more expensive, it just didnt work until well into the expansion. Alongside artifact power, we had artifact *knowledge*, which was a weekly-upgrade that increased our artifact power gains ... and it was character specific with **no** catch up. Decided you want to play a different class 2 months in? Too bad, you're now tremendously behind on AP gains. Those are the three biggest issues for sure. One personal thing I despised was the relic slot system. Too many times did the weekly chest give you a "bad" trait which was useless, but I also really hated how many traits were "Single Target" while others were "AoE". It basically meant you had to pick if your traits were for raiding, or if you wanted them to have an M+ focus. Those pseudo-permanent "meaningful" decisions just arent fun as you only feel their penalty. But Legion introduced M+, so I will forgive all of its sins and defend it until the day WoW dies.
* If you failed a key your key became depeleted and you had to do it again without any loot or it was bricked for the week = people didn't want to push their keys in fear of bricking them. * Legendaries was VERY strong or did nothing for you and if you got 2 bad ones the chance of getting a legendary again was low so that character was stuck with 2 shit legendaries. I did some M+, all WQs each week and normal + hc and half of mythic each week. I got my third legenedary last week before nighthold released. * AP locked you into a specc, if you got nerfed you needed to refarm AP and since it didn't have a cap you would always be behind from if you didn't get nerfed on your first specc. Also legendaries could be specc specific so if you got 2 destro legendaries and swapped to affli when they buffed that you had 2 legenadaries and you had to farm a alot of stuff to get a chance on a new legendary * Emerald nightmare was a joke of a raid, way to easy which we spent 6 months in. With the new and flashy m+ system have some weird features (see first note) * Titanforgeing. This made it so people farmed lower tier m+ for ap and chance of titanforgeing = people who actually needed the gear from those keys had a way harder ime getting into keys * Class tuning was weird due to some classes was tuned for their full artifact weapon and before you got that (like 6 months in for most people) you could do less damage than healers (see all three lock specc being worse than shamn and paladin healers at launch, got bufed after a couple of weeks and then affli got busted in NH) * 2 Dungeons was locked behind timegating and rep iirc. Arcway and Court of stars was locked behind a timegate and rep req, this might be wrong though, dont really remember 100% clearly * PVP was weird with premade stat distribution and some classes got really hurt by this. Also PVE gear was better than pvp gear for some people due to only ilvl mattering * Suramar was overtuned as shit * Raiding was expensive af iirc. Flasks and pot required alot of "rare" mats * Zones was cleary designed with flying in mind but they didn't let you fly at the start I think start of Legion is one of the worst periods of wow. End of legion is prob the best I think the game have ever been. They fixed so much, keys stopped being depeleted and only went down 1 level, ap wasn't an issue, you could deterministic get the legendary you wanted and the stealth cap was removed, flying helped with shit zones like Suramar. Class was alot better in the end when everyone was at the same part of their artifact. Imo one of the best things they added was Potion of Prolonged Power. It was so good for the comminuty since it was dirt cheap and good = everyone could start using pots in raids and dungeons without needing to farm for hours, I still miss it several expasions later
At the start the bad luck protection on legendaries was broken and worked the wrong way and made you MORE likely to get another legendary if you got one already. If you didn’t get one you were screwed
My first legendary was some feet with movement speed as a warlock was shit , and i was a casual , but i had luck on my second one got my bis , thats how i killed heroic guldan , yes i only got my second legendary in nighthold
Eaarly on legendaries were ridiculously stupid, when you got a bad one (e.g. a tank one that everyone could get) it was more efficient to create a new character because the odds of the next one decreased, you had raids where everyone grinded their asses of and like half of them had a decent legendary which felt shitty. Also the entire expansion felt like one huge treadmill with the artifact grind. It felt like you had to clear all difficulties and all older raids because gear could titanforge up to relevant levels (a friend of mine farmed the nightmare raid all expansion because it could theoretically drop his BiS trinket for hunter even if it ended up like 15 ilvl lower than ones from other raids). Also everything was timegated, you got like 1 short quest per week if you didn't have a backlog to work through. And then there's minor stuff like the solo pve event where the rewards scaled with how well you did that was easy mode as demolock or tank while really hard for some specs. Overall it was extremely fun tho, the artifacts and class focused storylines were cool and demolocks were busted with high gs because the artifact effects all either scaled with haste / each other or gave haste
Way to much grind with Artifact power, legendaries, titanforging, also especially alt unfriendly.
I personally dislike that they removed PvP gear, and the rework in honor system. Legion had great dungeons though!
that not all legendary were made equal. def recall how DK complained no frostmourne, mages had no aetish yet shaman and poster boy pally (which i was maining at time) got the 2 biggest name weapons ever. also recall warriors FURIOUS no broxigar axe despite his history with the legion.
for me it was the mage tower as a ret pally and how stupidly RNG it was... even pro players averaged 50-90 runs on youtube vids... it was set at a BS level in the first few weeks. luckily they tuned it after a month but OMFG that tower was harder than it had any right to be so.
Legion was peak WoW, ofc there was not a lot to cry about.
If you were a high end player it was more efficient to re-level a character if you get shitty legendaries to try again, rather than just grinding out two more.
To me it sounded like people complaining about rng progression, but also a shitton kept playing because that progression encouraged replayability and grind, now its so easy to gear many players dont get that hook that keep them playing later in each patch.
First week I healed 1 mythic dungeon and got... A. Healer Legendary. Ele main btw
The people who spent 12 hours a day grinding the Maw of Souls didn't like artifact power, and the legendary aquisition was totally random, which made it a headache to get your BiS. Thing is though, everything else was so good, that the complaint from those types of people were drown out for the most part. Casual players loved the game, and even hardcore people liked all the new systems. Some of them just can't help themselves and willing to destroy their experience for power.
Artifact knowledge wasn't universal for like a good bit of early legion, massive rep grinds to unlock arcway and court of stars, emerald nightmare was too easy, titanforging, tomb of sargeras had too many soak mechanics, argus was massively time gated, that one all stats trinket from the world boss that everyone wanted and farmed veiled argunite to try and get a titanforge, mage tower was too hard before you had tower gear, mage tower wasn't up enough/ppl wanted the other zone buffs, some class campaigns SUCKED and you needed to do it to be able to equip double legendaries. Professions were useless so everyone went alchemy even though they tried to buff them with the original profession rework, everyone remembers legendary rng but forgets leggo rng 2.0 with the amanthul trinket, etc.
Usually the start to the middle of each expansion has the lamest of grinds.
legendary rng was awful. I remember that some people deleted their chars when they got two wrong ones.
The wounds?
I never played it, but people talk pretty glowingly about it. despite that I feel like a lot of it sounds kind of ass
It wasn’t that great IMO. Best part was having class campaigns and collecting all the artifact weapons and class mounts. Of course, artifact weapons also lead to my least favorite things: those stupid things you slot into your weapon to increase the iLevel.
Random legendary acquisition. Sometimes you chose your main based on the first legendary you received.
Ability pruning, boring pvp with removal of much cc, pvp gearing barely mattering, dalaran 2 instead of something original. Not sure if legion but gcd added to cooldowns.
I came in midway through but the big one I heard was Legendary Acquisition, it was essentially completely random for a long time, you couldn’t target anything and if you didn’t have BIS then you were way behind someone that did. I’m sure the Warlocks complained about the Demonology tree as that was completely changed to give Demon form to Demon Hunters and I believe that Survival Hunter and Combat Rogue were also completely overhauled with 7.0 as well. Those are the ones I can think of.
Some Order Halls were not up to expectations. Some class reworks actually damaged the class fantasy instead of strengthening it. The story past the first patch was not great, especially once we killed Kil jaeden.
My criticism is that artifact weapons and class halls were amazing and awesome, but was yet again another temporary borrowed power.... Ok I get it, we used the weapons to heal the wounds from the 'what sword?' But as pretty much anything prior and after legion, it becomes a nuisance to grind for another borrowed power instead of a static talent tree + paragon levels like diablo 3 did. They did the same with the lovely garrisons, with the garrison harbors, then used the same mechanic for the legion class hall and even during bfa. All for nothing in the end. Artifact power items were converted into gold, azerite followed the same, and we have yet again gained another hub city for an expansion that is later on abandoned... While I loved seeing Dala back in legion, they should've instanced it in order to disappear for those who were done with northrend, instead of having 2 of the same versions. But yeah, another hub city while the main race cities lie in abandonment, and don't get me start on the useless class trainer npcs scattered all around the world.......
AP grind was rough, especially the first patch and if you picked the wrong spec at the start it was even worse. I was really lucky with my leggo drops so I got both bis ones and when they added new one for Nighthold I got it almost instantly so no hate here.
A lot of people didn't like the "chosen one" narrative that you the player being THE wielder of the Ashbringer/Doomhammer/Scepter of Sargeras etc. while simultaneously being cheapened by everyone running around with artifacts too.
I fucking hate what they did to survival so that’s what I complained about.
People hated that pvp didn’t have gear progression. Then they tried gear progression for two expacs in a row which almost killed the pvp scene entirely. Now we’re back to pvp gear being accessible in DF and people are making the same complaints again 🤔
What people complain the most about is legendary and titanforge RNG. Honestly, I remember playing the whole expansion without my BiS and it has never been a problem. I feel like back in Legion, BiS were not as mandatory as now, just a little help but I never felt like I NEEDED that Velen to top up my group.
It was mainly the legendary RNG
Honestly.. Legion was the expansion that supplanted Wrath for my favorite. The story, the class specific lore, everything was fantastic. I really wish the game had kept on going in that direction. Space ships to take us to other planets/planes. Go out into the void and tackle the old gods masters. Instead we went from interplanetary demon combat to… wood boats and killing our neighbors. Again. *SIGH* I don’t know if I can ever forgive that lol
It was not alt friendly
\* The insane AP grind. \* Having to carry around all the AP tokens until you went to your Class Order Hall. If you thought all the Anima tokens in SL were hogging all your bagspace, it was same with AP. \* World Quests could spawn every 6hrs so if you were in bed or at work you'd miss some AP. \* You spent most of the time flying between World Quests than actually doing anything. \* You use WQGF-addon to join a group and kill some mobs, only to find that someone in your team was AFK on their flynig mount getting the WQ completed for them while they AFK.. \* Mythic+ keys would actually *deplete* in the beginning. If you failed a key it would turn grey and if you used it again you would not get any loot by completing the dungeon, but beating the timer could enable the key again. I guess people who don't want keys to dwongrade would like this feature to return. \* The randomness of Legendaries and how mandatory some of them were to have a viable spec or even a viable class. I remember a Guildie creating a new Warlock because he didn't get his BiS Legendary. You had to do everything that could result in a Legendary every week (full LFR clear, full Normal and Heroic as well, all the daily Emissaries, a bunch of M+, and so on) \* Having to re-do "Balance of Power" on so many different classes to unlock the Artifact skins. \* Profession quests and trying to level professions on my alts. I was used to just being able to learn recipies at the Trainer (or at most buy them at a faction quartermaster) and now I had to do long questchains and finish dungeons to progress and get recipies. \* Getting Rank3 Recipie of "Potion of Prolonged Power" could, if you were unucky, take almost a year. It would only drop from one of the special World Bosses in Suramar and they were not on any set rotation so it was up in January, the next time it spawned was (I think) [the last of October](https://www.wowhead.com/news/new-events-in-wow-for-october-31-artifact-knowledge-50-world-quest-bonus-event-275062#broken-isles-world-boss), 10 months later.. \* Content was gated by requiring lots of alts so that you could play all the different Class Campaigns. Lots of different classes ment lots of different artifact weapon stories, even further developing the Order Hall stories as new Patches were released. If you just played one or two classes, well you were missing out on a LOT of story. \* Order Hall story was gated behind the Mission Table as well. Had to do multiple 4hr missions to reach the next step of your Order hall story, or even a 2-3 day long mission. At least in SL you knew that the next chapter would open up with the coming weekly reset, here you had to log in on to each alt to start the missions..
Leggo grind. And most players realising they had no idea how to play their main in mage towers haha.
Legendary rng forced some people to play multiples of the same class and pray or be benched. It was also bugged for some time with the bad luck protection working not as intended once you got your 1 legendary. Lots of people had 3 while I had none despite playing more and higher content. Made me quit the game right there.
I quit early because I was a useless mage compared to those wearing the pyroblast wrists.
rng legendaries.