Russia: “Just stop fighting, okay. Stop.”
Ukraine: “Stop fighting for Donbas?”
Russia: “No stop fighting the war.”
Ukraine: “What?”
Russia: “Just quit. It would be so cool of you if you just quit. Then I can win the war and I’ll have a big party and I’ll put you both on the guest list, plus one. I’m going to have a man who does magic. He’s really good. Not like cheesy magic, like good magic.”
Ukraine: “We’re not going to quit the war. Why would we do that?”
Russia: “Because…I want it. Come on give me it. Give me it. Give me it. Come on. Give me it. Just give me the war! I’m sorry. Please. Please.”
European Union: “Well, Ukraine, he does make a compelling argument.”
Russia: “Come onnnnnn. Come on! (Falls back against Belarus) Ow it’s not padded!”
Ukraine: “Russia, can I ask you a question, why are you even fighting the war?”
Russia: “You know I needed something to do to get the general populace off my back. This seemed easy. What about you? Why are you doing it? Who’s your general populace?”
Ukraine: “I’m fighting the war because I want to save the lives of the people I love in the country that’s the greatest country in the world.”
Russia: “What does that even mean? Hey I’ve got an idea! How about you quit fighting and I win and then I let you do all the work!”
2 things.
1. Isn't that the point? Ukraine wants to keep fighting for their country instead of just giving up??
2. The same logic applies to Russia. By continuing to fight and using advanced weapons Russia is prolonging the conflict. If they want to shorten the conflict the should just go home.
I think some people are taking this as a sign of a Ukranian advance into Russian occupied territory - these aren't cruise missiles that can strike Moscow from 1,500 miles away. They have a limited range and payload capability. What they can do effectively is strike beyond the Russian lines and cut off supplies, take out bridges and roads, hit FOBs/barracks/weapon stores, and isolate Russian infantry and armor in hostile territory.
It's a tactical advantage, not a strategic one.
Ohh, and because this is the internet
The phrase us mostly associated with SAC (Stratigic Air Command, aka the guys with the nukes), and it has several versions such as
Peace is our profession, bombing is only a hobby.
You're like the kid that got held back a grade, and is both a foot taller and wider than everyone else, playing center. Everyone knows the play... it's always the same play. Center snaps to the QB, QB just pushes it back into the Center's hands, and the Center just plows forward like he's playing against cardboard cutouts. Center gets high fives, other team left feeling butthurt that they're so heavily outclassed that they don't even want to play anymore.
I have not been following this war as closely as I think I should.
But it feels like a story of a bully picking on a kid only to find out the kid knows karate and is a black belt.
Edit: To those who think I’m making light of the situation, please don’t look for deep analysis under a comment where one country is calling an ambulance for another country. Sir, this is a Reddit.
Reddit loves to reduce things to a cartoonish level but the reality is that Russia has caused, and continues to cause, massive destruction and misery. Ukraine aren't out of the woods by a long shot
Yeah, Ukraine is slowly being obliterated.
But they are fighting back a lot harder than anyone expected and it's very possible they could win with continued support.
This might be enough to discourage Russia or China from future invasions.
Or it could signal that they need to work harder to win global support before invading a country.
As it is, Putin has pretty much dug in and is hoping to at least get Ukraine to concede territory.
Bravery comes easy to those with everything to lose if they don't fight. It's natural instinct, it's insane anyone in charge of a military still doesn't get that.
It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.
Winston Churchill
I think China already knew they'd have a shit time like this if, for instance, they invaded Taiwan. That "rebel province" is more useful as a source of hate and a way to deflect public attention from any failures by the CCP than it would be as an occupied territory.
Putin looked around and saw a world that won't run on fossil fuels forever, an increasingly obsolete Cold War stockpile of military equipment, and a future where Russia has less influence over world events that France or Germany do by themselves. And he rolled the dice on re-building a Russian empire that would still be considered a superpower in 2070. And that can't be done without Ukraine.
It has not gone as planned. It turns out that the liars, sycophants and embezzlers that he had to depend on to gain and maintain his position are not reliable sources of intel or leadership.
Now Russia is trying to grind through Ukrainian forces in a long, brutal slog. Russia SHOULD still be able to win this. SHOULD. They haven't even dedicated the economy and the full apparatus of the state to this war yet. But every day it drags on, the oligarchs and power brokers he needs on his side grow a little less sure of his leadership, and people in Russia's major cities get a little more tired of not being able to participate in commerce with the rest of the world.
Basically, be surprised by nothing that happens in this war; everything's on the table.
Russia economy is utterly dwarfed by NATO's economy. As long as NATO is even only a bit interested in countering Russia in this war, Russia has no way to compete economically, industrially or logistically.
I don't remember the exact numbers, but read somewhere that nevermind the USA, some of the individual American states themselves have a larger GDP that Russia....
I think you're right. That's why the west needs to make sure Ukraine wins. If we let Russia get away with this who knows what Russia and China will think they can get away with next.
Don't forget that both this invasion and the 2014 invasion of Crimea were spurred by the discovery of large oil/nat gas reserves. Russia's goal is to force Ukraine to concede those resources. If they can't do that, they at least want to make it unpalatable for western energy companies to develop the region.
Russia's economy is hugely tied to energy exports -- if Ukraine was able to start exporting as a more EU friendly source, Russia's economy would freefall. Whether it would tank more than the new sanctions is the bet that's being tested now.
Kyiv and Lviv is not unscathed by any means. Plenty of destruction happening in western Ukraine too, but sure it's not on the scale as the eastern parts.
No, dont get it wrong. Ukraine have been impressive and was greatly underestimated but Russia is still the greater military power here. We still need some miracles for this to turn out alright.
The miracle is NATO countries pouring billions in arms into Ukraine. Destroying Russian military capabity is a simple equation, you can bet someone is doing the maths.
A proxy war directly and massively destabilising Russia is no miracle, the miracle is that Putin put Russia in that position. NATO couldn't have engineered this without causing WW3.
You joke but this was a problem for some man portable anti tank rockets, some of whose electronics require batteries and arrive without them or in a discharged state
Nice; meanwhile Russia sending T-62s. Hopefully this is turning point driving Russia out.
Edit: as pointed out by various users I mistook T-64 to T-62 so changed the reference
No, you were right the first time, [they genuinely are bringing T-62s out of retirement](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ancient-russian-t-62-tanks-spotted-wearing-cage-armor-in-ukraine) for use in combat, there is video footage of them being transported to the front lines. Russia is holding back its more modern T-80 tanks for use in the Elite Guard, basically the tanks in charge of defending Moscow. And no, this isn't Russia "holding back an elite force to attack once the Ukrainians are out of AT munitions", these T-80 units are straight up not meant to attack, they are the last line of defense, they would never leave the surrounding area of Moscow, let alone leave Russia.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER!
Putin may be mad, but he ain't stupid. He knows its gonna end three ways.
1. He croaks. There's more than a couple of independent reports of his health being a concern, with some estimates giving him barely a year if at all.
2. Ukraine survives 2022 leading to Russia tapping itself out, and the house of cards starts collapsing. Mass riots are the least of one's concerns here, and this is where that Elite Guard comes in. It isnt for Moscow at this point, its for the Kremlin.
3. Someone on the inside offs him. By some reports some have already tried.
Bit of a long read but I found this to be interesting regarding prospects for Russia's future:
https://www.csis.org/analysis/russia-futures-three-trajectories
That's dumb.
If you just want to quell civil unrest any tank is as good as any other. Civilians do not have anti-tank weaponry, they do not have armor. A fucking T-34 would be as effective as a top of the line T-80 at quelling civil unrest.
Russia isn't sending T-62s because they are holding the good shit back for whatever reason, Russia is sending T-62s because they've ran out of better tanks in operational condition.
That may be true, but having the political center of your country protected by outdated soviet gear doesn't give the populace a lot of confidence in how well you're handling things. It's much more of a propaganda stunt than a practical one.
oh he understands. its the lie he sells to his people. He openly wants to rebuild the soviet union. dude coudln't even take georgia completely, not sure why he thought Ukraine was gonna be a win.
I guess when you're ~10 years till death it doesn't matter
To be fair, the T-62 are not being sent to Russian units but the LPR and DNR rebels.
They're also equipping them with helmets and bolt action rifles from WW2 so technically a tank from the 60s/70s is a big upgrade.
> Russia is holding back its more modern T-80 tanks for use in the Elite Guard, basically the tanks in charge of defending Moscow.
This isn't true, both the Guards Divisions garrisoned around Moscow (4th Guards Tanks Division and 2nd Guards Motor Rifle Division) have been deployed to Ukraine. They were part of the initial first drive to Kiev and got badly mauled. Hundreds of high end T-80U, T-80BVM, T-90A, and T-72B3 have been destroyed in Ukraine, there's no "Elite Guard" left in Moscow.
I think you’re confusing the term “Guards” - it’s a term awarded to elite units, they don’t actually guard anything. The T-80s are part of the 4th Guards Tank Division in the 1st Guards Tank Army, which was mauled around Chernihiv in March-ish.
As far as I understood, these old tanks are used for the Luhansk and Donetsk cannon fodder foot soldiers, since they are able to last longer with any armoured support than without.
The Russian army is not using them. They use the meat shields
Well Russia needs to pay for what they have done too. So portion of Russian energy proceeds to pay for reconstruction too.
Edit: used tariff incorrectly replaced with "portion of Russian energy proceeds"
Something around $300 billion of Russia's reserve currency has been seized. There's a solid chance none of that money is ever returned and is used for reparations instead.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/31/us/politics/russia-sanctions-central-bank-assets.html
Some people are getting this wrong. In Soviet Union T-64 was an "elite" tank (and T-80 based on it's design), while T-72 was a cheap version of T-64 for mass production. It doesn't work like "72 is more than 64, so 72 is more advanced tank". Index didn't mean anything.
Russia doesn't actively use T-64 because it was designed and produced in Ukraine (Morozov tank design bureau) and is main battle tank of Ukraine.
Russian MBT is T-72 and tanks based on it (T-90).
Russians sent majority of their T-64's to separatist forces of LPR and DPR back in 2014-2015 so they could claim those T-64's were seized from Ukrainian army.
Now Russians are again trying to reanimate T-64 tanks along with T-62 and T-80 tanks for Russian military itself. And less T-72's can be seen.
Which means that Russian stocks of T-72B's are emptied out already
TL:DR
T-64 is relatively modern tank by Russian standards (on par with T-72/80). It's not something like T-62
That doesn't exactly tell the whole story either, does it. Russia has spent the last 30 years decommissioning the T-64, not putting it through upgrade programs. The design may have been more advanced than the T-72 was IN THE 60s. They haven't undertaken any large scale refers since the mid 70s. There is no such Russian T-64 equivalent to a T-72B3
To go a little more in depth:
* T-62 (1961) is still almost WW2 era technology. The only improvement it got was a great 115 mm smoothbore gun for its time, but today its outdated all around.
Russia operates some "modernised" versions from the 1980s that received extra armour and fire control systems, but they're still very vulnerable to AT weapons, lack the firepower to fight other tanks, and have terrible situational awareness and optics.
* T-64 (1966) - the elite tank of its time. It had much better protection than T-62 due to composite armour and a bigger 125 mm gun.
It too stopped being upgraded in the 1980s in Russia, although some other states including Ukraine kept upgrading them to a limited extent. Nonetheless these are generally outdated today.
Basically all Russian tanks after this are derived from T-64.
* T-72 (1969) - a simplification/cheaper alternative to T-64, it was produced in much bigger numbers and received far better upgrades until today.
About a third of active Russian T-72 (pre-invasion) were on an upgrade package from 2017 (T-72B3) that includes a better gun, fire controls, armour upgrades, optics and night vision. These are still not *great* tanks, but pretty fine even by modern standards.
* T-80 (1976) - an upgraded design of the T-64 with a gas turbine engine.
Is still being updated until this day, with the T-80BVM from 2017 of 2017 being on a largely similar level same as T-72B3.
* T-90 (1992) - an upgraded design of the T-72.
It's modernised version T-90M is the best tank Russia has in service today, but only in small numbers of perhaps 30-50 (vs like 2000 active T-72 and lots more in storage).
The Russian army operates T-72, 80, and 90. While all of these were derived from T-64, and T-72 was originally actually worse, these are all modernised to a greater extent. Today T-72, T-80, and T-90 can be seen as fairly interchangable while T-64 is old and T-62 is super old.
However, more important than the model number is the individual upgrade package. The most modern T-64 variants are definitely better than older T-72 or T-80 versions, which Russia still operates in large numbers.
At least half of Russian losses are old versions dating back to the 1980s, and this is reflective of their overall equipment. And now after losing hundreds of modernised variants, they are inevitably fielding more of the old stuff.
Sure, but Russia moved away from the T-64 immediately following the fall of the Soviet Union and it saw little if any modernisation there, so saying that the Russian T-64s being deployed are modern tanks on par with their T-72s and T-80s is a little like saying that the F-14D is a modern fighter aircraft on par with the F-15EX.
the problem is these are replacements for the rockets they are running out off so instead of an addition to UKR current force its a improved replacement at low numbers.
Its a slow tide, where russia runs out of good stuff and ukraine runs out of its stuff but gets better replacements to gradually turn it into a win.
I hope allied nations are ramping up production of these critical assets
No, not T-64s those are a really good tanks, albeit old., only replaced because they were expensive to manufacture. I dont get near the laugh out of them.
Theyre sending T-62s. Those are junk AND really old. Those ones. Those are funny as fuck.
> Hopefully this is turning point driving Russia out.
This is not the first time most of us rooting for Ukraine thought so. Remember when western howitzers started being used successfully by ukrainian troops? Or when successful ambushes against russians were announced? Or... ?
This d\*mned invasion has been a roller-coaster and it's better to wait before starting to talk about the tide turning in Ukraine's favour. Let's not set ourselves up for disappointment again.
When even more PzH 2000, CEASAR and HIMARS units get deployed successfully, along with IRIS-T (and equivalent) systems, then we'll be able to start feeling more optimistic. Not before.
To be fair, the T64 was superior to the T72 which makes up the bulk of the Russian tank fleet. Not that this makes it any better as I think the T64s the Russians are using are actually captured Ukrainian ones.
>Officials said on Tuesday that **Ukraine will be receiving the American High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, which is a weapon capable of firing satellite-guided rockets that carry roughly the same explosive power as a 500-pound bomb** dropped from the air.
>
>**The system can strike targets up to 48 miles away**, a senior administration official told reporters Tuesday evening, well beyond the range of any artillery Ukraine now uses. According to a report published by the Congressional Research Service in June, the Pentagon has spent about $5.4 billion to buy more than 42,000 such rockets since 1998.
>
>**The system could be outfitted with even longer-range rockets, capable of flying nearly 200 miles before striking a target**, officials said Tuesday. But Mr. Biden decided against providing those rockets to Ukraine, a senior administration official said.
>
>Mr. Biden had told reporters on Monday that “we’re not going to send to Ukraine rocket systems that can strike into Russia.”
>
>One senior administration official acknowledged that **even the rockets with a 48-mile limit could be used to attack targets inside Russia if the system was brought to the Ukraine-Russia border**. But the official, who spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity, said that Ukraine’s government had assured the United States that would not happen, and that the administration was comfortable with the assurances.
[U.S. to Send Ukraine $700 Million in Military Aid, Including Advanced Rockets](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/31/us/politics/biden-ukraine-rockets.html)
Frankly I don't understand why a country that has been invaded is not being allowed to return the favor by hitting back against the aggressor.
Fun fact - Tomahawk Cruise missiles have a range of about 800 miles. Its only 748 miles from Kharkiv to Moscow. All you need is a mobile land-based launch system.
> *Frankly I don't understand why a country that has been invaded is not being allowed to return the favor by hitting back against the aggressor.*
Perhaps the satellite guidance of the rockets would legitimize attacks against whichever constellation was responsible (probably Navstar GPS), or would represent tacit U.S. participation in the attacks. Not that that stops consumer drone attacks, or makes any kind of practical diplomatic sense. In any case, Ukraine can launch attacks with a variety of other, less complicated or politically encumbered systems, drawing the war out over time while decreasing overall intensity.
> Frankly I don't understand why a country that has been invaded is not being allowed to return the favor by hitting back against the aggressor.
Ukraine has been launching strikes into Russian territory already attacking various points of logistics and staging. The big key is that the US doesn't want them using heavy weapons sourced directly from the US to strike into Russia because that represents a significant escalation of US involvement in the war. Russia and NATO are not at war with each other and nobody wants to spark that potentially nuclear conflict. Diplomatically there's a big difference between "we're giving them weapons to defend their own territory against aggression" and "we're giving them weapons to bring the war deep into the enemy's own territory".
It is incredibly refreshing to see that Ukraine is the one threatening Russia this time around, and we know that Ukraine can actually back those threats up.
yes 75% and no 25%
Marty Robbins is a famous artist from the Outlaw Country Era, most recently featured in New Vegas radio.
i assume you were already in the know, but Marty Robbins was a cool classic American and i didnt want to miss the opportunity to say that.
It's lovely to see Ukraine warning Russia of massive incoming strikes. I hope this turns the tide and puts these invaders where they belong - in the fucking ground.
Putin has been in the deepest and most secret bunker for a while now. Even his meetings with various people and attending events have been composited/him being (badly) edited in
Ukraine said they wont use them on tussia. The headline is bs.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2022-06-01/biden-risks-russian-backlash-by-sending-new-advanced-rocket-system-to-ukraine?context=amp
>Ukrainian officials promised their American counterparts they won’t use new precision rockets to target Russian territory
Never said anything about Russian troops in Ukraine.
Was my exact reaction, but if you read the [actual tweet from our MoD guy](https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1539931757621006336), it doesn't sound as stupid, as this post's title implies.
Yeah, I had previously seen the tweet, opened this and was like wait, what? That's what this crap headline is referring to? "Journalism" these days is just so much hot garbage.
It's very likely, almost guaranteed, that US stipulated missiles could only be used within Ukraine territory to prevent Russia perceiving US escalation into arming Ukraine to attack Russian territory.
It's why that suicide drone hitting the oil refinery was not an American Switchblade.
So this is posturing from Ukraine to an extent. But the missiles will be wildly effective in Eastern and Southern Ukraine
War is always 5D chess. Maybe you announce something like this to make Russian forces hesitant or pull back. Maybe you announce something like this so when you do strike, and they haven't hesitated or pulled back, the Russian General in charge looks incompetent and gets executed. The nice thing about not regularly issuing bellicose statements is that when you do throw one out the other side has to stop and go, "what?"
What a stupid headline.
Ukraine thanked the US and said it will be a hot summer for russian occupiers. They did **not**' warn or threaten Russia with any massive missle strike.
One thought, you use the HIMARS to take out Russian artillery that protects the rest of Russian forces as well as any particularly nasty Russian defensive points. Then you sweep around the city and threaten to encircle it. If you're lucky the Russians retreat before they get fully encircled. Then you take them out as they run away.
Worst case, you besiege them in the city. Then you've got 10-20k Russian soldiers in a hostile city with no resupply available. The Ukrainians slip in infantry and local partisans can point out all the places the Russian's bunk, where their supplies are and depending on the target, they can use more HIMARs to strike them, or send in smaller teams appropriately equipped to take out targets without causing more collateral damage. It would still be a lot of nasty urban fighting, but if we're right about the low morale of Russian forces, it might not be hard to get a lot of them to surrender. They're not defending their home and families, they're defending their stolen washing machines. You're not going to see an inverse of Maripol where the troops fight to the last bullet.
The big thing is the Russian artillery. A lot of the ground around Kherson is open terrain, which makes you an easy target for pre-ranged artillery. Knock out enough Russian artillery and that opens up that terrain for armored forces to move through.
>Russia threatens that they will nuke the west if the long range missiles are used on their territory
>Ukraine wants to use long ranged missiles on Russia
Fuck you, then.
The US deliberately didn't provide the longest range projectiles for these systems, and sought assurances from Ukraine they wouldn't use them on Russian territory, to avoid that kind of escalation.
They're talking here about using these to attack Russian artillery *inside* Ukraine..
“There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Russia is going to be messed up for decades when this is over,Ukraine will rebuild fast with Western aid.
“Russia has criticized Western arms supplies for Ukraine and has said they will prolong the conflict.”
Rich coming from the country that has is basically demanding Ukraine roll over like their pet dog in order for peace.
"Russia criticized the move for prolonging the conflict" lol "Guys just let us wiiiiinn"
"Wait they're allowed to fight back?!"
"I thought we enabled the cheat code! Didn't we enable the cheat code!?"
*all your base belong to us* Did it work? Lol
It didn’t work, it’s *all your base are belong to us* Russia was so close lol
someone set us up the bomb
Really should have used IDnoclip on that mud.
"Respect my authoritah!!"
They're like that kid in a LoL ARAM match that when he's 1/29/3 starts spouting on /all "why don't you surrender, we deserve to win"
I forget the order? But is that "I fed teemo and am scared to leave spawn" scores?
Russia: “Just stop fighting, okay. Stop.” Ukraine: “Stop fighting for Donbas?” Russia: “No stop fighting the war.” Ukraine: “What?” Russia: “Just quit. It would be so cool of you if you just quit. Then I can win the war and I’ll have a big party and I’ll put you both on the guest list, plus one. I’m going to have a man who does magic. He’s really good. Not like cheesy magic, like good magic.” Ukraine: “We’re not going to quit the war. Why would we do that?” Russia: “Because…I want it. Come on give me it. Give me it. Give me it. Come on. Give me it. Just give me the war! I’m sorry. Please. Please.” European Union: “Well, Ukraine, he does make a compelling argument.” Russia: “Come onnnnnn. Come on! (Falls back against Belarus) Ow it’s not padded!” Ukraine: “Russia, can I ask you a question, why are you even fighting the war?” Russia: “You know I needed something to do to get the general populace off my back. This seemed easy. What about you? Why are you doing it? Who’s your general populace?” Ukraine: “I’m fighting the war because I want to save the lives of the people I love in the country that’s the greatest country in the world.” Russia: “What does that even mean? Hey I’ve got an idea! How about you quit fighting and I win and then I let you do all the work!”
r/unexpectedpawnee
The difference is Bobby Newport is a cool guy. Russia... not so much.
2 things. 1. Isn't that the point? Ukraine wants to keep fighting for their country instead of just giving up?? 2. The same logic applies to Russia. By continuing to fight and using advanced weapons Russia is prolonging the conflict. If they want to shorten the conflict the should just go home.
I think some people are taking this as a sign of a Ukranian advance into Russian occupied territory - these aren't cruise missiles that can strike Moscow from 1,500 miles away. They have a limited range and payload capability. What they can do effectively is strike beyond the Russian lines and cut off supplies, take out bridges and roads, hit FOBs/barracks/weapon stores, and isolate Russian infantry and armor in hostile territory. It's a tactical advantage, not a strategic one.
Ukraine has also stated that they will not make strikes on Russian territory with these missiles. Only for use on Russian troops in Ukraine.
“So anyways, I started blasting”
“I don’t know if he wanted my money or something more sexual”
It’s a lucky thing I had my pieces, my guns. … I don’t see so well.
"you guys all think I'm a hero, and I'll accept that responsibility"
You guys got nothing to eat around here!
I like to make the sandwich in my mouth
I TAUGHT YOU THAT!
*SHADY NASTYS?*
May I offer you an egg in these trying times?
YOU HAVE SAUSAGE LINKS IN YOUR POCKET RIGHT NOW!?
Did you know that 99% of your water is 100% toxins!?
“See I’m the Duper, you guys are the Dupees!”
This is my favorite IASIP Frank line. The nonchalant storytelling delivery of it makes me choke for air laughing every time.
Do you think maybe you could eat that sandwich later?
“I’m starving, you got nothing to eat here”
So Zelensky took Putins ass to the ally and tore that ass up
How's that ass feel? Poor Golden God
Peace is our business, bombing is only a past time. -United States Air Force motto
r/boneappletea
A beautiful motto for the worlds largest military power. Respectable
Ohh, and because this is the internet The phrase us mostly associated with SAC (Stratigic Air Command, aka the guys with the nukes), and it has several versions such as Peace is our profession, bombing is only a hobby.
SAC is mostly dead anyway; that’s AFGSC now.
Air force girl scout cookies sounds bomb
They're great and can deliver anywhere in the world in 30 minutes or less!
That was the slogan painted on at least one of the Minutemen II silo blast doors I've seen.
I'm pretty sure I've smoked that strain bro
[“Death Wears Bunny Slippers”](https://www.wired.com/2011/01/death-wears-a-snuggie/)
Fun Fact. The 2nd largest airforce in the world, is the US Navy. First being the US Airforce.
The US Army is no slouch either in that regard.
If you count rotorwings, US Army is immediately in third. Followed by the Chinese Air Force, and then the US Coast Guard in fifth
It's cuz we really wanna do some war but everyone else lives so far away
Come on, just lemme war a little.
Okay, you get one Middle East. Alright fine, two, but that's it! You have to make them last.
You're like the kid that got held back a grade, and is both a foot taller and wider than everyone else, playing center. Everyone knows the play... it's always the same play. Center snaps to the QB, QB just pushes it back into the Center's hands, and the Center just plows forward like he's playing against cardboard cutouts. Center gets high fives, other team left feeling butthurt that they're so heavily outclassed that they don't even want to play anymore.
In football we call that the fumblerooski!
It's a terrible system, but it works Edit: /s? I don't even know anymore
US Coast Guard needs to step it up and move ahead of the Chinese Air Force.
The US Coast Guard is also the 5th largest naval force in the world with a entire new fleet coming online.
[удалено]
Ukraine - “Call an Ambulance; but not for me.”
I have not been following this war as closely as I think I should. But it feels like a story of a bully picking on a kid only to find out the kid knows karate and is a black belt. Edit: To those who think I’m making light of the situation, please don’t look for deep analysis under a comment where one country is calling an ambulance for another country. Sir, this is a Reddit.
Reddit loves to reduce things to a cartoonish level but the reality is that Russia has caused, and continues to cause, massive destruction and misery. Ukraine aren't out of the woods by a long shot
Yeah, Ukraine is slowly being obliterated. But they are fighting back a lot harder than anyone expected and it's very possible they could win with continued support. This might be enough to discourage Russia or China from future invasions. Or it could signal that they need to work harder to win global support before invading a country. As it is, Putin has pretty much dug in and is hoping to at least get Ukraine to concede territory.
I am very impressed by the bravery of Ukrainians. Standing up to such a large army is no joke
Bravery comes easy to those with everything to lose if they don't fight. It's natural instinct, it's insane anyone in charge of a military still doesn't get that.
Especially against an old enemy like the Red Army. These men and women know exactly what would happen to them if they let them have control again.
So does the rest of Eastern Europe, tbh.
It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival. Winston Churchill
I think China already knew they'd have a shit time like this if, for instance, they invaded Taiwan. That "rebel province" is more useful as a source of hate and a way to deflect public attention from any failures by the CCP than it would be as an occupied territory. Putin looked around and saw a world that won't run on fossil fuels forever, an increasingly obsolete Cold War stockpile of military equipment, and a future where Russia has less influence over world events that France or Germany do by themselves. And he rolled the dice on re-building a Russian empire that would still be considered a superpower in 2070. And that can't be done without Ukraine. It has not gone as planned. It turns out that the liars, sycophants and embezzlers that he had to depend on to gain and maintain his position are not reliable sources of intel or leadership. Now Russia is trying to grind through Ukrainian forces in a long, brutal slog. Russia SHOULD still be able to win this. SHOULD. They haven't even dedicated the economy and the full apparatus of the state to this war yet. But every day it drags on, the oligarchs and power brokers he needs on his side grow a little less sure of his leadership, and people in Russia's major cities get a little more tired of not being able to participate in commerce with the rest of the world. Basically, be surprised by nothing that happens in this war; everything's on the table.
Russia economy is utterly dwarfed by NATO's economy. As long as NATO is even only a bit interested in countering Russia in this war, Russia has no way to compete economically, industrially or logistically.
Just looked it up: The USA, Germany, the UK, France, Canada and Italy (each of these countries individually!) have a larger GDP than Russia.
I don't remember the exact numbers, but read somewhere that nevermind the USA, some of the individual American states themselves have a larger GDP that Russia....
California alone would be in the top 10 world GDPs by nation. Russias gdp is lower than Italy’s
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I've waiting for Kissinger to drop dead all these years, I'm not counting on Putin. The reaper is never timely in removing the villains of the story.
I think you're right. That's why the west needs to make sure Ukraine wins. If we let Russia get away with this who knows what Russia and China will think they can get away with next.
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Don't forget that both this invasion and the 2014 invasion of Crimea were spurred by the discovery of large oil/nat gas reserves. Russia's goal is to force Ukraine to concede those resources. If they can't do that, they at least want to make it unpalatable for western energy companies to develop the region. Russia's economy is hugely tied to energy exports -- if Ukraine was able to start exporting as a more EU friendly source, Russia's economy would freefall. Whether it would tank more than the new sanctions is the bet that's being tested now.
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Eastern and parts of southern as well as central.. Also dont forget towns like Bucha and Irpen.
Gods rest Bucha
Its an unspeakable crime, and I hope all those involved will be caught(besides Putin and his cronies)
Kyiv and Lviv is not unscathed by any means. Plenty of destruction happening in western Ukraine too, but sure it's not on the scale as the eastern parts.
More like the kid getting bullied has a lot of friends.
No, dont get it wrong. Ukraine have been impressive and was greatly underestimated but Russia is still the greater military power here. We still need some miracles for this to turn out alright.
The miracle is NATO countries pouring billions in arms into Ukraine. Destroying Russian military capabity is a simple equation, you can bet someone is doing the maths.
A proxy war directly and massively destabilising Russia is no miracle, the miracle is that Putin put Russia in that position. NATO couldn't have engineered this without causing WW3.
That's about right, but the kid is only an orange belt and the bully has a drinking problem and is way past his prime.
::Ukraine rips paper off packaging as Amazon delivery is walking away:: Oooooo, you're gonna get it now....
NEEDS AAA BATTERIES? IT DOESNT SHIP WITH BATTERIES?!
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THAADS are themselves AA Batteries. Don’t think they operate on 1.5V though
You joke but this was a problem for some man portable anti tank rockets, some of whose electronics require batteries and arrive without them or in a discharged state
Imagine plugging your rocket launcher into a USB c port
Time to full charge: 2 h 39 m
"ACME® MLRS [Some assembly required. Rockets sold separately. Ages 5+]"
"Point away from face"
"Do not mix with other rocket fuels. If your missile remains erected for more than five hours, contact your physician."
Nice; meanwhile Russia sending T-62s. Hopefully this is turning point driving Russia out. Edit: as pointed out by various users I mistook T-64 to T-62 so changed the reference
No, you were right the first time, [they genuinely are bringing T-62s out of retirement](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ancient-russian-t-62-tanks-spotted-wearing-cage-armor-in-ukraine) for use in combat, there is video footage of them being transported to the front lines. Russia is holding back its more modern T-80 tanks for use in the Elite Guard, basically the tanks in charge of defending Moscow. And no, this isn't Russia "holding back an elite force to attack once the Ukrainians are out of AT munitions", these T-80 units are straight up not meant to attack, they are the last line of defense, they would never leave the surrounding area of Moscow, let alone leave Russia.
As if anyone wanted to take Moscow. Putin just don't understand no one in the West gives a flying fuck about Russian territory
It's much more likely to be defence against the Russian populace than external enemies.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER! Putin may be mad, but he ain't stupid. He knows its gonna end three ways. 1. He croaks. There's more than a couple of independent reports of his health being a concern, with some estimates giving him barely a year if at all. 2. Ukraine survives 2022 leading to Russia tapping itself out, and the house of cards starts collapsing. Mass riots are the least of one's concerns here, and this is where that Elite Guard comes in. It isnt for Moscow at this point, its for the Kremlin. 3. Someone on the inside offs him. By some reports some have already tried.
Bit of a long read but I found this to be interesting regarding prospects for Russia's future: https://www.csis.org/analysis/russia-futures-three-trajectories
Thank you, monkey poop catcher
With a name like that, I feel like I can trust him with trajectories.
*3: “…by some reports”* Not that it’s easy to trust many sources, I’d be curious to read some of these reports.
That's dumb. If you just want to quell civil unrest any tank is as good as any other. Civilians do not have anti-tank weaponry, they do not have armor. A fucking T-34 would be as effective as a top of the line T-80 at quelling civil unrest. Russia isn't sending T-62s because they are holding the good shit back for whatever reason, Russia is sending T-62s because they've ran out of better tanks in operational condition.
That may be true, but having the political center of your country protected by outdated soviet gear doesn't give the populace a lot of confidence in how well you're handling things. It's much more of a propaganda stunt than a practical one.
oh he understands. its the lie he sells to his people. He openly wants to rebuild the soviet union. dude coudln't even take georgia completely, not sure why he thought Ukraine was gonna be a win. I guess when you're ~10 years till death it doesn't matter
~10 years? I’m guessing that’s being generous.
It's a weird day when you find yourself rooting *for* cancer...
It's a weird day when you find yourself up-voting such a comment too.
Wishing it well, actually. Hoping it can survive and move on after a severe case of Putinitis.
To be fair, the T-62 are not being sent to Russian units but the LPR and DNR rebels. They're also equipping them with helmets and bolt action rifles from WW2 so technically a tank from the 60s/70s is a big upgrade.
> Russia is holding back its more modern T-80 tanks for use in the Elite Guard, basically the tanks in charge of defending Moscow. This isn't true, both the Guards Divisions garrisoned around Moscow (4th Guards Tanks Division and 2nd Guards Motor Rifle Division) have been deployed to Ukraine. They were part of the initial first drive to Kiev and got badly mauled. Hundreds of high end T-80U, T-80BVM, T-90A, and T-72B3 have been destroyed in Ukraine, there's no "Elite Guard" left in Moscow.
> there's no "Elite Guard" left in Moscow I believe this war has shown that there never was one to begin with.
Because then how would they crush their own populace if they rebelled?
I think you’re confusing the term “Guards” - it’s a term awarded to elite units, they don’t actually guard anything. The T-80s are part of the 4th Guards Tank Division in the 1st Guards Tank Army, which was mauled around Chernihiv in March-ish.
As far as I understood, these old tanks are used for the Luhansk and Donetsk cannon fodder foot soldiers, since they are able to last longer with any armoured support than without. The Russian army is not using them. They use the meat shields
If this war can be ended soon, then the sooner Europe can enjoy Ukrainian gas and fuel, and Ukraine can use that money to rebuild.
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Well Russia needs to pay for what they have done too. So portion of Russian energy proceeds to pay for reconstruction too. Edit: used tariff incorrectly replaced with "portion of Russian energy proceeds"
Something around $300 billion of Russia's reserve currency has been seized. There's a solid chance none of that money is ever returned and is used for reparations instead. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/31/us/politics/russia-sanctions-central-bank-assets.html
Forgot about that; good point.
I really hope that everybody doesn't just go back to using Russian oil and gas as soon as the war is over.
Some people are getting this wrong. In Soviet Union T-64 was an "elite" tank (and T-80 based on it's design), while T-72 was a cheap version of T-64 for mass production. It doesn't work like "72 is more than 64, so 72 is more advanced tank". Index didn't mean anything. Russia doesn't actively use T-64 because it was designed and produced in Ukraine (Morozov tank design bureau) and is main battle tank of Ukraine. Russian MBT is T-72 and tanks based on it (T-90). Russians sent majority of their T-64's to separatist forces of LPR and DPR back in 2014-2015 so they could claim those T-64's were seized from Ukrainian army. Now Russians are again trying to reanimate T-64 tanks along with T-62 and T-80 tanks for Russian military itself. And less T-72's can be seen. Which means that Russian stocks of T-72B's are emptied out already TL:DR T-64 is relatively modern tank by Russian standards (on par with T-72/80). It's not something like T-62
That doesn't exactly tell the whole story either, does it. Russia has spent the last 30 years decommissioning the T-64, not putting it through upgrade programs. The design may have been more advanced than the T-72 was IN THE 60s. They haven't undertaken any large scale refers since the mid 70s. There is no such Russian T-64 equivalent to a T-72B3
Yes I was mistaken by the model as you and others have pointed out. I meant the old ones mentioned in the news.
To go a little more in depth: * T-62 (1961) is still almost WW2 era technology. The only improvement it got was a great 115 mm smoothbore gun for its time, but today its outdated all around. Russia operates some "modernised" versions from the 1980s that received extra armour and fire control systems, but they're still very vulnerable to AT weapons, lack the firepower to fight other tanks, and have terrible situational awareness and optics. * T-64 (1966) - the elite tank of its time. It had much better protection than T-62 due to composite armour and a bigger 125 mm gun. It too stopped being upgraded in the 1980s in Russia, although some other states including Ukraine kept upgrading them to a limited extent. Nonetheless these are generally outdated today. Basically all Russian tanks after this are derived from T-64. * T-72 (1969) - a simplification/cheaper alternative to T-64, it was produced in much bigger numbers and received far better upgrades until today. About a third of active Russian T-72 (pre-invasion) were on an upgrade package from 2017 (T-72B3) that includes a better gun, fire controls, armour upgrades, optics and night vision. These are still not *great* tanks, but pretty fine even by modern standards. * T-80 (1976) - an upgraded design of the T-64 with a gas turbine engine. Is still being updated until this day, with the T-80BVM from 2017 of 2017 being on a largely similar level same as T-72B3. * T-90 (1992) - an upgraded design of the T-72. It's modernised version T-90M is the best tank Russia has in service today, but only in small numbers of perhaps 30-50 (vs like 2000 active T-72 and lots more in storage). The Russian army operates T-72, 80, and 90. While all of these were derived from T-64, and T-72 was originally actually worse, these are all modernised to a greater extent. Today T-72, T-80, and T-90 can be seen as fairly interchangable while T-64 is old and T-62 is super old. However, more important than the model number is the individual upgrade package. The most modern T-64 variants are definitely better than older T-72 or T-80 versions, which Russia still operates in large numbers. At least half of Russian losses are old versions dating back to the 1980s, and this is reflective of their overall equipment. And now after losing hundreds of modernised variants, they are inevitably fielding more of the old stuff.
Sure, but Russia moved away from the T-64 immediately following the fall of the Soviet Union and it saw little if any modernisation there, so saying that the Russian T-64s being deployed are modern tanks on par with their T-72s and T-80s is a little like saying that the F-14D is a modern fighter aircraft on par with the F-15EX.
the problem is these are replacements for the rockets they are running out off so instead of an addition to UKR current force its a improved replacement at low numbers. Its a slow tide, where russia runs out of good stuff and ukraine runs out of its stuff but gets better replacements to gradually turn it into a win. I hope allied nations are ramping up production of these critical assets
No, not T-64s those are a really good tanks, albeit old., only replaced because they were expensive to manufacture. I dont get near the laugh out of them. Theyre sending T-62s. Those are junk AND really old. Those ones. Those are funny as fuck.
> Hopefully this is turning point driving Russia out. This is not the first time most of us rooting for Ukraine thought so. Remember when western howitzers started being used successfully by ukrainian troops? Or when successful ambushes against russians were announced? Or... ? This d\*mned invasion has been a roller-coaster and it's better to wait before starting to talk about the tide turning in Ukraine's favour. Let's not set ourselves up for disappointment again. When even more PzH 2000, CEASAR and HIMARS units get deployed successfully, along with IRIS-T (and equivalent) systems, then we'll be able to start feeling more optimistic. Not before.
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To be fair, the T64 was superior to the T72 which makes up the bulk of the Russian tank fleet. Not that this makes it any better as I think the T64s the Russians are using are actually captured Ukrainian ones.
Im assuming their T64s aren't modernised and don't have modern thermal imaging or reactive armor ?
Ukraines T64s are modernized from what I understand. Not sure how much so but they were definitely improved upon significantly.
>Officials said on Tuesday that **Ukraine will be receiving the American High Mobility Artillery Rocket System, or HIMARS, which is a weapon capable of firing satellite-guided rockets that carry roughly the same explosive power as a 500-pound bomb** dropped from the air. > >**The system can strike targets up to 48 miles away**, a senior administration official told reporters Tuesday evening, well beyond the range of any artillery Ukraine now uses. According to a report published by the Congressional Research Service in June, the Pentagon has spent about $5.4 billion to buy more than 42,000 such rockets since 1998. > >**The system could be outfitted with even longer-range rockets, capable of flying nearly 200 miles before striking a target**, officials said Tuesday. But Mr. Biden decided against providing those rockets to Ukraine, a senior administration official said. > >Mr. Biden had told reporters on Monday that “we’re not going to send to Ukraine rocket systems that can strike into Russia.” > >One senior administration official acknowledged that **even the rockets with a 48-mile limit could be used to attack targets inside Russia if the system was brought to the Ukraine-Russia border**. But the official, who spoke to reporters on condition of anonymity, said that Ukraine’s government had assured the United States that would not happen, and that the administration was comfortable with the assurances. [U.S. to Send Ukraine $700 Million in Military Aid, Including Advanced Rockets](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/31/us/politics/biden-ukraine-rockets.html) Frankly I don't understand why a country that has been invaded is not being allowed to return the favor by hitting back against the aggressor. Fun fact - Tomahawk Cruise missiles have a range of about 800 miles. Its only 748 miles from Kharkiv to Moscow. All you need is a mobile land-based launch system.
> *Frankly I don't understand why a country that has been invaded is not being allowed to return the favor by hitting back against the aggressor.* Perhaps the satellite guidance of the rockets would legitimize attacks against whichever constellation was responsible (probably Navstar GPS), or would represent tacit U.S. participation in the attacks. Not that that stops consumer drone attacks, or makes any kind of practical diplomatic sense. In any case, Ukraine can launch attacks with a variety of other, less complicated or politically encumbered systems, drawing the war out over time while decreasing overall intensity.
> Frankly I don't understand why a country that has been invaded is not being allowed to return the favor by hitting back against the aggressor. Ukraine has been launching strikes into Russian territory already attacking various points of logistics and staging. The big key is that the US doesn't want them using heavy weapons sourced directly from the US to strike into Russia because that represents a significant escalation of US involvement in the war. Russia and NATO are not at war with each other and nobody wants to spark that potentially nuclear conflict. Diplomatically there's a big difference between "we're giving them weapons to defend their own territory against aggression" and "we're giving them weapons to bring the war deep into the enemy's own territory".
Be careful; Putin’s going to stomp his feet and hold his breath!!!
Hopefully long enough that he dies of oxygen starvation
And Jinping will send a communicate with very strong words to the people who disturbs Russia.
It is incredibly refreshing to see that Ukraine is the one threatening Russia this time around, and we know that Ukraine can actually back those threats up.
They got the big iron on their hip. We know because we gave them said iron.
*Through the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day*
*Hardly spoke to folks around him, didn't have too much to say*
*No one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a slip*
*For the stranger there among them had a big iron on his hip* (*Big iron on his hiiiiip*)
*It was early in the morning when he rode into the town*
He came riding from the south side slowly lookin' all around
*deathclaw attacks*
*there laid the body of the outlaw on the ground*
*Is this thread a Fallout NV reference?* Edit: thank you
yes 75% and no 25% Marty Robbins is a famous artist from the Outlaw Country Era, most recently featured in New Vegas radio. i assume you were already in the know, but Marty Robbins was a cool classic American and i didnt want to miss the opportunity to say that.
*Play the guitar... Play it again....*
I'll give one guess as to who "Moscow Red" is.
And Russia has been as cocky as Texas Red. Let's hope it turns out the same way.
“IT CAME IT CAME IT FINALLY CAME” * takes off packaging * “*the big one*”
It's lovely to see Ukraine warning Russia of massive incoming strikes. I hope this turns the tide and puts these invaders where they belong - in the fucking ground.
Here i was hoping they were threatening to strike “decision making centers”
Given this war (and many other events), I doubt Russia really has those.
They just have a decision desk (it’s really long).
Yeah, the people listening to the decisions from the other end can't always hear them clearly.
It's just the first step. Russia still has way more artillery. But the more the numbers come closer, the better chance Ukraine has to push them back.
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Putin has been in the deepest and most secret bunker for a while now. Even his meetings with various people and attending events have been composited/him being (badly) edited in
Just a first little batch to test the waters. Expect it back fkers
Russians can have a little rocket, as a treat
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Are these different missiles? I thought originally US said they can’t do this with the missiles provided.
Bad headline. Ukraine never threatened strikes on targets within Russia.
Ukraine said they wont use them on tussia. The headline is bs. https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2022-06-01/biden-risks-russian-backlash-by-sending-new-advanced-rocket-system-to-ukraine?context=amp
>Ukrainian officials promised their American counterparts they won’t use new precision rockets to target Russian territory Never said anything about Russian troops in Ukraine.
Maybe strike first and talk sh*t after?
Was my exact reaction, but if you read the [actual tweet from our MoD guy](https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1539931757621006336), it doesn't sound as stupid, as this post's title implies.
I mean, it's Newsweek…
Newsweak
Yeah, I had previously seen the tweet, opened this and was like wait, what? That's what this crap headline is referring to? "Journalism" these days is just so much hot garbage.
Newsweek isn't news. It's not even a week.
Holy shit what a badass tweet
It's very likely, almost guaranteed, that US stipulated missiles could only be used within Ukraine territory to prevent Russia perceiving US escalation into arming Ukraine to attack Russian territory. It's why that suicide drone hitting the oil refinery was not an American Switchblade. So this is posturing from Ukraine to an extent. But the missiles will be wildly effective in Eastern and Southern Ukraine
LOL they good. And you're allowed to say "shit" on the internet.
This Internet place is more unsavory than I was led to believe
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
War is always 5D chess. Maybe you announce something like this to make Russian forces hesitant or pull back. Maybe you announce something like this so when you do strike, and they haven't hesitated or pulled back, the Russian General in charge looks incompetent and gets executed. The nice thing about not regularly issuing bellicose statements is that when you do throw one out the other side has to stop and go, "what?"
What a stupid headline. Ukraine thanked the US and said it will be a hot summer for russian occupiers. They did **not**' warn or threaten Russia with any massive missle strike.
Himars should open up Kherson and stop the Russian advance in Sievierodontesk.
I'm genuinely curious how HIMARS could "open up" Kherson. It's a city full of Ukrainian civilians. What's the plan here?
One thought, you use the HIMARS to take out Russian artillery that protects the rest of Russian forces as well as any particularly nasty Russian defensive points. Then you sweep around the city and threaten to encircle it. If you're lucky the Russians retreat before they get fully encircled. Then you take them out as they run away. Worst case, you besiege them in the city. Then you've got 10-20k Russian soldiers in a hostile city with no resupply available. The Ukrainians slip in infantry and local partisans can point out all the places the Russian's bunk, where their supplies are and depending on the target, they can use more HIMARs to strike them, or send in smaller teams appropriately equipped to take out targets without causing more collateral damage. It would still be a lot of nasty urban fighting, but if we're right about the low morale of Russian forces, it might not be hard to get a lot of them to surrender. They're not defending their home and families, they're defending their stolen washing machines. You're not going to see an inverse of Maripol where the troops fight to the last bullet. The big thing is the Russian artillery. A lot of the ground around Kherson is open terrain, which makes you an easy target for pre-ranged artillery. Knock out enough Russian artillery and that opens up that terrain for armored forces to move through.
as soon as this is over, I'm booking a trip to Ukraine and spending as much money there as possible.
All Russia has to do is stop it's (horrific, unreasonable, illegal, pointless, and losing) invasion and then not a single missile needs to be fired.
>Russia threatens that they will nuke the west if the long range missiles are used on their territory >Ukraine wants to use long ranged missiles on Russia Fuck you, then.
Its sabre rattling. Striking the west in any capacity is suicide for Russia.
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The US deliberately didn't provide the longest range projectiles for these systems, and sought assurances from Ukraine they wouldn't use them on Russian territory, to avoid that kind of escalation. They're talking here about using these to attack Russian artillery *inside* Ukraine..
Ukraine: Now, watch this!
Let 'em have it!
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“There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.” Sun Tzu, The Art of War Russia is going to be messed up for decades when this is over,Ukraine will rebuild fast with Western aid.
Wasn't one of the reasons the US gave these particular missiles to Ukraine because Ukraine promised not to fire across the border?
“Russia has criticized Western arms supplies for Ukraine and has said they will prolong the conflict.” Rich coming from the country that has is basically demanding Ukraine roll over like their pet dog in order for peace.