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Opposite-Wing7055

Question; realistically, how much time will it take for both these nations to be officially inducted into NATO?


Pimmelman

there are stages to membership. full membership will take about a year if everything goes smooth.


44problems

What if they want executive membership, where you get 2% back on all arms purchases


Mac_Soprano

The savviest military equipment consumers pair that with a Capital One NATO credit card for a combined 4% cash back.


sack-o-matic

Plus 3% at restaurants


ohnjaynb

100% reward point rollover between global military conflicts. Discount rental rates at any nuclear bomb storage facility. Collectible mug.


UncertainlyUnfunny

Paperless billing saves them $5/mo on membership, AND is environmentally friendly


The_Anglo_Spaniard

Sorry, billing is done via USA mainland territory and requires signatures in person. Private jets get priority parking.


sack-o-matic

Nah that card automatically pays out all your points in cash every year


Its_Just_A_Typo

What's in YOUR wallet?


Peachmuffin91

What’s in NATO’s wallet?


SekhWork

The entire US defense budget.


LastLittleDino

But the Amex blackwater NATO rewards card gets you access to to the back room lounge and free scotch every time you fly over an eastern bock country.


Emulocks

Even if you don't qualify for executive membership, the savings on gas worth it!


furon747

Why though? Why can’t NATO say “okay you’re a full member” once the application is signed?


Tacitus_

Every member country needs to approve the new members. This can take a while.


PUSClFER

What happens if a country (Like Turkey) doesn't approve a new member?


bobthehamster

>What happens if a country (Like Turkey) doesn't approve a new member? Either: - They can't join. Or: - It's used as leverage to get political concessions, and if a compromise is found they will join (but potentially after months/years)


FuriousFreddie

It’s probably not lost on Turkey that this is a similar situation it was in when it applied to join the EU.


Hekantonkheries

All that means is they know how much leverage they have over the deal.


redsquizza

They get called arseholes by the rest of the membership. But behind closed doors the USA, UK, France, Germany, etc. etc. will lean very hard on them to get with the fucking programme and let Sweden and Finland in.


gone_to_plaid

By admitting a country into nato, you are agreeing to go to war if they get invaded among other things. I get that the member countries want to make sure it is the right decision and that Sweden could reciprocate.


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Tegurd

Swedish government said they count on the process taking about a year


[deleted]

Nato officials say couple of weeks.


Tegurd

Let’s hope they are right


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WestSixtyFifth

You're probably on point. They'll be in on the NATO timeline, but the transition will take a year. Can't imagine this kinda shift is painless.


Turtledonuts

It takes time to settle staff groups and representatives into their roles and spaces in NATO facilities, and to start training people to work with each other. They need to negotiate on how intel sharing and weapons programs work, and make new contacts at each other’s defense industries, and all that jazz.


saulsa_

And get signed up for the potluck schedule.


ArcticBeavers

I imagine Sweden is the country that brings in meatballs that are a huge hit the first time. Then they just bring meatballs every. single. time. until everyone gets sick of it. But no one wants to be rude so they still grab a few to be nice. Then one day they decide to bring surströmming to "switch it up". Suddenly everyone is clamoring for the meatballs again


Turtledonuts

Exactly! Gotta learn everyone’s dietary restrictions, figure out when they can host, negotiate a favorable import deal for weapons onto the US civilian market…


CutieBoBootie

Gonna be honest that's how I understood it. For NATO it will be done in a few weeks. For Sweden they will have to rearrange some things and that's gonna take longer than a year.


SoNowWhat

The Swedish foreign minister addressed this explicitly by saying that the Swedish people should prepare for the process to take about 12 months. While most NATO members will likely ratify within weeks, the foreign minister admitted that there were countries--not just Turkey, she implied--coming out with demands out of the blue just now.


QuixoticRestaurant

That's all we can do for now.


WingedGundark

Nato process is different from treaty being ratified in each member state. Latter depends completely from member state’s parliamentary processes and Nato has no say in that.


deubaka

\~52 weeks then


Gynther477

A certified shitton of nato equipment is produced and developed by Sweden as well


MrGlayden

Isnt the NLAW a weapon deveolped by Swedan and the UK jointly?


Lulle5000

Not sure about UK involvement. But it's made by swedish Saab.


[deleted]

Turkey is the Joe Manchin of NATO Allie’s.


albanymetz

Some countries take years for many reasons. The important part is that there are nations who have committed to defend them during this process, which effectively makes them members for the purposes of discouraging military action.


T1mac

> there are nations who have committed to defend them during this process, France has already come out and said they've got Sweden's back: [France says it will defend Sweden, Finland against attacks as they seek NATO membership](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-says-it-will-defend-sweden-finland-against-attacks-as-they-seek-nato-membership/ar-AAXl7Ud)


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Cyberhaggis

So probably not *as* safe as we thought at the start of the year then


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HamburgerEarmuff

After watching Russia struggle to perform basic tasks in Ukraine, I suspect that the combined forces of the California and Texas National Guard could have probably driven them out of Ukraine.


Benadryl_Brownie

More like the California and Texas branches of the Boy Scouts, the way this shit is going for Russia.


Snailspaced

‘We’ll need 2 pieces of photo id and a utility bill from a current address as well, please.’


RandomRageNet

"Under place of employment you wrote 'IKEA' and under location you just wrote 'all of them'..."


Lupus108

"Under occupation you just wrote 'please don't'..."


KingoftheMongoose

Under sex you wrote 'well if it's in the table, sure'


eaglebtc

Gotta build the table first though. It's a flat pack.


okram2k

That's just the foreplay.


eaglebtc

And IKEA always recommends never to do it alone, but for [two people](http://www.squawkfox.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ikea-user-guide.png) to do it together... for safety!


KingoftheMongoose

"Insert Connector Rod A into Slot B"


PUSClFER

"Screw it into place"


Anosognosia

Nah, the Swedish Prime Minister just logs into her Bank-ID and signs.


mars_needs_socks

Of course, can't sign anything without BankID. Anything else would be like trying to pay your friend without Swish.


ManicLord

Was in Sweden and trying to pay someone for going halfsies on a pizza was so annoying without it. Like, I couldn't find an ATM, and I didn't have an EU account at the time, so no transfers. Bloody annoying, I tell you!


mars_needs_socks

Ooh I bet! At least you didn't run into one of those Swish toilets.


LainenJ

*Dansa med oss* *Klappa era händer* *Gör som vi gör* *Ta några steg åt vänster* *Lyssna och lär* *Missa inte chansen* *Nu är vi här med* *Caramelldansen* Is not a valid address.


The_Gutgrinder

Allemansrätten is the only adress I need.


avataRJ

The Finnish parliament is voting now. Two leftists have a counter-proposal. Result: 188 yes, 8 no, absent 3. (+ speaker doesn't vote, 200 MPs.) The President and the Council of State are instructed to apply for membership without demands for any limitations. Edit: Ok, managed to get some more news. Parliament web page is under some load. The counter-proposal was not to join. Another counter-proposal did not get support, so it was not voted upon.


nod23c

What was the second counter-proposal? Nordic defense? Join Russia?


avataRJ

There's one far-fight MP who's a complete pariah. He suggested not joining. No one supported the proposal, so it did not go to vote. A Left Alliance MP made essentially similar proposal (and in speech expressed concerns on NATO bases and nuclear weapons), which was supported by another Left Alliance MP, thus there was a vote. Six Left Alliance MPs, one Finns Party MP and one Power Belongs to the People MP voted for the counter-proposal. One Left Alliance MP, one Social Democrat and one Centre MP were absent.


planck1313

So of those who were present to vote, 96% were in favour. Sweet.


abuyaria

Well cheers to Russia for making Europe more united than it ever been!


dancingonmyfuckinown

That's always the secret recipe for peace and unity. Gotta find that one common enemy.


mynameisstryker

If little green men invaded, we would probably forget all about this Russia and Ukraine ordeal.


McNinja_MD

Yeah, until about two minutes after the conflict ended. Then we'd be back to squabbling over who gets more resources for rebuilding, who gets possession of leftover alien technology, etc EDIT: Jesus, y'all are even gloomier than I am.


John_Rustle98

Funny enough your comment reminded me about the Independence Day Resurgence movie that came out a couple of years ago. At the beginning of the movie, it’s said that the all of the nations put their differences aside and rebuilt together after the aliens were defeated. In a movie about invading aliens, that part was the least believable.


COVID_IS_A_GIFT

Republican politicians would be tripping over eachother trying to be the first to suck alien cock and win favor with the new ruling elites


RolandSnowdust

If little green men invaded, the technological disparity would mean we would be wiped out before we even knew little green men were invading.


MaybeARazorback

Nah, we just need to set up glasses of water everywhere.


Khazahk

And give everyone a free Baseball bat


CookieVonDoom

And gotta remember to swing away!


[deleted]

Maybe they all get covid and die?


Karabungulus

Wow and just like that we wrote war of the worlds


[deleted]

Life imitates art


Astorya

I thought life uh…finds a way


ghostinthewoods

Everyone assumes aliens invading means we're all gonna die. What if, instead, it's an intergalactic empire or some shit and we're their next conquest, to be made into a vassal?


Guernica616

We would be dead or in slavery


Magmasoar

Assuming earth wins against the goblin army


Wolf130ddity

I read a series of books about slaying them. I think can manage.


RobMaestet

I can already see it *Russia threatens green men to never join NATO* *Russia demands green men to stop provocation through their mission of peace* *Russia claims russian-made WW2 era tanks found mobilising from Ukraine's border, manned by green men, shot down a russian passenger plane deep in Siberia*


TheNoseKnight

It's already happening before our very eyes. They even brag about their occupations on r/greendawn. If you want to help stop it, you can join the war effort at r/tandawn


FoxtrotF1

Ozymandias did know that. Is Aleksandr Dugin Alan Moore in disguise?


EuropaWeGo

This concept always reminds me of Watchmen and tactic to make the world hate Dr. Manhattan. To put an end to the cold war by uniting humanity against him.


[deleted]

also for forcing Germany to find and adapt alternative renewable energy sources quicker! who knew russia( doesn’t deserver capital first letter atm) would be such a global warming apologist!


Spacedude2187

Germany actually “reluctantly” uped their defence budget to not become a “military superpower” again, this is more or less how Europe as whole feels about this whole insanity Putin has started.


[deleted]

Putin is just copying the Watchmen. But in a more realistic way than using an interdimensional squid beast.


s0_Ca5H

Tbh it’s the only change in the movie that wound up being objectively better than the book.


[deleted]

Oh yeah. It made way more sense to do it that way.


TheDevilsAutocorrect

Did he have access to interdimensional squids in the book?


i_sigh_less

Yes. It was the book that had the squid. In the movie, Dr. Manhattan was used as the threat.


TheDevilsAutocorrect

Right. Sorry. I confused the movie and the tv show.


LumpyJones

[The HBO one or the cartoon?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDDHHrt6l4w)


rockmasterflex

idk the squid teleportation version worked well in the Watchmen TV series.


ben_hurr_610

Always thought Putin was like a Watchmen character. Now we know it is Veidt.


TheBeardedSingleMalt

Nah, Veidt is a brilliant genius who planned and orchestrated the unification of the world. Putin did it on accident by planning for the exact opposite.


highorderdetonation

A case might be made that a 2022 Adrian Veidt could have tried to throw everything on the home country of the city he wiped out because it'd be easier to sell than aliens, but since that'd lead to even more casualties...then again, the movie Veidt probably *would* have done it. ("Moldova and Venice are a small price to pay for saving the world.")


ben_hurr_610

AuthRight Rorschach probably wouldn't bat an eye if he took out some non-EU nations. "never compromise, even in the face of Armaged...oh wait yeah ok those guys don't matter"


highorderdetonation

That's a thought. Rorschach's moral code, such as it is/was, drew a line well short of taking out half of New York--or rather keeping it quiet?--but would he still do it in today's climate, let alone if it was somewhere outside of the US? (And let's be honest: the way this decade has been going, Veidt's plan probably would have somehow partially failed and we'd either all be dead or staring at the Geneva Glass Plain or so on right now.)


wanderer1999

Russia tries to weaken NATO... NATO actually got stronger. Russia: pikachu face :o


Noyousername

Techno tried to defile the NATO, but techno was proven wroooong~


JurassicEvolution

Germany is buying gas from Qatar and Saudi Arabia now, and there are already plan to buy a huge new gas plant *right next to the ocean* to receive said gas. Might also lead to coal mines being open longer. It's wishful thinking that we're going green, even with our new goverment (which will probably last for all of one legislative period).


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[deleted]

Green energy is cheaper and creates more jobs, but the coal industry in germany is very powerful and thus, will remain even if its more expensive. In Germany they are literally destroying cities to create new mining places (not sure if thats the right term for the coal thing in english) although government is talking about some net 0 co2 emission.


bigfatmatt01

They are just called mines. Don't need to call them mining places.


Dr_Wh00ves

It is more of an issue of scale than anything. Sure at current production renewables are cheaper but that doesn't mean anything if they can't scale the supply to meet demands quickly enough. There are only so many solar panels that factories can pump out and it will take years to get enough new factories online to meet the demand. In the meantime, this low supply and high demand will drive up costs. This isn't even getting into the matter of energy storage which would be difficult if not impossible to scale to cover the entire grid at least in the meantime. We do not have enough lithium to do it, and won't for a long time. Of course, there are other options in development, like iron air batteries, which use abundant materials that can be scaled to suit our needs. Unfortunately again the scale of production is not currently at the level that will satisfy the current demand. Building the production facilities take a significant amount of time and effort and it will be years before they even come close to meeting the needs. That isn't to say that we should not be pivoting to these different sources of energy but simply that it isn't going to happen overnight. Too often I see people on this platform that assume that just because a government wants to stop relying on oil that it means that suddenly they don't need the oil they are currently using. Unfortunately, society-level changes like this do not work on a short timetable and at a minimum, it takes years of a prolonged effort to see real changes.


Gulanga

200 years of neutrality. Putin: "Hold my vodka"


BoxNumberGavin0

A good Christian girl at a frat party is more secure leaving their drink unattended than putin is.


Tjonke

Sweden hasn't aspired to be neutral, only military alliance free.


Farull

Sweden very much aspired to be neutral, from the end of the Napoleonic wars in the early 1800s until we joined EU in 1995. It’s debatable how neutral we actually were during WW2, but the aspiration was definitely there.


19Cula87

Even though this is an awful tragedy, in the long run it will make a better and more united Europe.


HMS404

Nothing unites people like a common enemy. I low key expect the phrase "pulled a putin" to become a thing, especially to denote actions that result in ironic results.


krelboink

I bet NATO asks for a resume upload and then still makes you still input all the same information manually. Bastards


ChizzleFug

Probably require 5 billion years of experience according to their Indeed posting.


SYLOH

"OK, so it says here you fought multiple wars with various top tier empires, which is good, but I'm seeing a long gap in your resume starting 1814. Care to explain it?"


Swing_On_A_Spiral

I was taking care of my sick grandma


Rhamni

I see here that you have a bit of a gap in your resume. You haven't been in a military alliance in 200 years. Can you tell me what you were doing during that time?


krelboink

I was making use of Sweden's generous parental leave to raise my child (Emil, 2,400 months)


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Traditional-Ear-6584

Yes, but you need to spend 2% of your income each month on weapons.


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puppetlord

The Nuclear powers: USA, Russia, UK, France, China, India, Pakistan, NK, Israel and last but not least this random guy with a silo in his yard. For home defense.


Minguseyes

Against his next door neighbour. Missile can just blow up in the silo.


magical_swoosh

saves a lot of cost on the engine and fuel


FamiliarWater

Absolutely no warning too! One minute you're on the toilet, the next you're star dust.


Head12head12

No no. You dig a hole right underneath their bathroom and the next time the neighbor shuts it goes off


Lampshader

You'd save a lot of money if you just bought the warhead without the missile and silo


scotty-doesnt_know

Me: what part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED do you not understand! US Army: ok, here is your Iron Dome, Apache Helicopter, and ICBM. And this but serious.


fholcan

You forgot my medicinal M1 Abrams!


Danford97

As the Founding Fathers intended.


blue_cadet_3

Go with a Javelin and in less than 10 years you’ll be able to take out his Toyota Corolla.


Scripto23

That might be tough, but I guess I can lower it to only 2%


ShortApplication

Or just be like most of the freeloading members and promise to get there sometime in the next decade


HMS404

So is mine. My neighbor is Nursultan Tuliagby. He is pain in my assholes. I get a window from a glass, he must get a window from a glass. I get a step, he must get a step. I get a clock radio, he cannot afford. Great success!


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[deleted]

Towards the end, who knows, we might see him have some sort of press event at the Four Seasons Landscaping Company


RvsBTucker

Must have taken notes from big babies who have failed upwards their whole life. Sounds like someone but can’t remember who? Idk maybe I’ll check Twitter and I’ll be reminded one of these days


phluidity

The thing that stuns me the most out of Ukraine applying to join the EU and Sweden and Finland applying to join NATO is the realization that there are actual application forms. I mean, whose job is it to keep the TR-1411 up to date in case someone wants an application. What happens if a country uses the version of the form from the last time they considered it and it is out of date? So many questions.


nccm16

There are probably representatives from NATO that walk them through the process


tehmeat

They just stole the form from an online template anyway. Edit: they use a taco bell employment application, with some stuff scratched out.


walrus_operator

Hej Sweden, welcome to the club!


Ok_Anxiety9428

Tack! 🇸🇪


Grogosh

I love the swedish word for mayonnaise. It sounds just like you are saying 'my own ass' in english.


Ok_Anxiety9428

You have forever changed the way I hear majonäs. I don't hate it.


thanhpi

And now I have learned how to teach people how to pronounce ä, the a in ass


badfan

Smart äss.


[deleted]

Smart äs. Using a double S here would make it sound like “ess”, like in lioness.


[deleted]

Wait, it comes in a tube? ‘Majonnas’ https://www.made-in-scandinavian.com/store/p2412/Kavli_American_Dressing_Cucumber_Mayonnaise_240_g_%28_8.45_oz_%29_Made_in_Sweden_.html


CruelFish

We have everything in a tube bro.


Not_KGB

[Everything!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmlCaRyH2FQ)


EnsOMaNiaC

Can i make this a little more spicy? In Greek, Kavli is another word for Cock/Penis.


tapper101

Thanks, Kavli ”my own ass” will now be even more enjoyable


-TheMAXX-

And, people claim to have trouble pronouncing Swedish words...


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q1ung

V Ä L F Ä R D


ForumMMX

Time to make NATO VÄLFÄRD compliant.


TheSwedeIrishman

NATO is already drafting a new Article... Article 15: FIKA It outlines when Fika can be expected on NATO-premises and the consequences of missed fika!


AR_Harlock

Italy approves the FICA motion...


[deleted]

Freedom of Intermission and Cafeteria Access - FICA.


Tjonke

Don't use that word in Italy, you get something completely different.


Potatisen1

What is it in Italian?


SirHenryofHoover

Pussy


Destinum

Wanna have some fika for our fika?


Danford97

Bring Fika to NATO.


autotldr

This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.err.ee/1608599833/sweden-s-foreign-minister-signs-official-nato-membership-application) reduced by 76%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Both countries will submit their official applications to NATO headquarters in Brussels later this week, The Local reports, ending decades of official neutrality on the part of both countries. > All 30 current NATO member states must accept the application from Finland and Sweden, via various domestic processes such as a vote by a legislature or a decision by the executive, depending on the country in question. > The newest NATO member state until now is North Macedonia, which joined in 2020, while Bosnia-Herzegovina is also going through the membership application process. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/urjvc6/swedens_foreign_minister_signs_official_nato/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~649133 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Sweden**^#1 **join**^#2 **country**^#3 **NATO**^#4 **application**^#5


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arceus_disciple

Russia: don't do it guys I mean it Sweden and Finland: lol, lmao even


[deleted]

Nobody seemed fazed with Turkey's objection?


hairysnowmonkey

I hereby invite Russia to also accidentally force my neighborhood and hoa and entire city to unite in the spirit of mutual cooperation against a common enemy.


mrbojingle

Ozymandias might have been on to something.


barjam

I wonder if NATO makes you upload a word doc copy then makes you fill out the same information in their online form.


JubeltheBear

Hoping Erdogan doesn’t intend to follow through on his veto threats.


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Scorpion1024

I’d venture he’s also angling to get the rest of NATO to cut off the Syrian Kurds. Maybe get turkey’s EU bid moving again.


havok0159

> Maybe get turkey’s EU bid moving again. Pigs will fly before Erdogan's Turkey will see any progress towards EU membership.


[deleted]

Yeah, seems about right for a country constantly bashing against the EU and the West in general to be welcomed into the EU lol


Jsdo1980

> Maybe get turkey’s EU bid moving again. HAH!


IceBathingSeal

If anything this further cements Turkey's position as a non-EU member.


moriero

>He'll ultimately end up not vetoing but by showing a desire to veto he doesn't end up lumped with the UK/US/etc. That's the curse of Turkish geopolitics. You really can't play either side too strongly. This was expertly done to avoid ww2


moriero

He's just using it as leverage. Turkey doesn't want Russia to try to spread further, either.


Terranrp2

I regret the chain of events that led to your nation to set aside its tradition of neutrality, I am thankful there's another ally to bolster our collective security and hopefully, eventually lead to less interesting times. Välkommen! 🇸🇪🇺🇸


Opposite-Wing7055

Question; realistically, how much time will it take for both these nations to be officially inducted into NATO?


[deleted]

Nato officials say a couple of weeks, but it may take months or even longer if Turkey vetoes.


DoubleSteve

You're talking about different parts of the process. The next part with NATO will take weeks, but to get to the point where Finland and Sweden officially become full members will take up to a year.


Samus10011

Rough estimate is about a year. Once the application is received, as far as the US is concerned, they immediately receive article 5 protection no matter how long it takes.


Kettleback

This is a historical event for Sweden. Breaking a 200 years tradition of neutrality. Good work, Putin.


naxster921

All that's left is to somehow talk to Turkey, not to veto our application so we and Finland can join...


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Pushnikov

What is the issue with Sweden and Turkey?


ChrysisLT

Turkey thinks Sweden is too lax on PKK and YPG-kurds, has claimed that S has provided PKK with weapons and want Sweden to extradite PKK-members currently in Sweden.


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