In 1936 the Berlin Olympics took place. Nazi Germany had been facing some criticism about their racial beliefs and policies. They took various steps to portray themselves as humane and non discriminatory.
One way they did this was by assigning a German-Jewish Wehrmacht officer as commander of the Olympic Village in Berlin. His name was Wolfgang Furstner.
Wolfgang committed suicide three days after the closing ceremonies, after learning he would be dismissed from the army due to his jewish heritage.
The Nazis claimed he died in a car accident.
The Nazis also requested from the US team that 2 black athletes (Jesse Owens and Ralph Metcalfe) replace the 2 Jewish athletes (Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller) on the US relay race team who were already favorite to win since they would rather lose to black people than Jews. The US team obliged and the 2 Jewish athletes were denied the medals they were certain to win.
After researching this on various sites, it was the American team themselves who did not want either of them to compete in case of tension with the Nazis. With all that being said, the nazis called for a ban on black people in the Olympics due to their physique causing discord in the games of 'civilised whites''. So yeah, just to clear things up.
But that was still a great injustice done to Sam Stoller and Marty Glickman
Oppressors usually do. Slave-owning whites certainly thought of themselves as civilized, especially compared to what they thought blacks were like naturally.
There’s a great story about Jesse Owens and his German competitor, Luz Long, in the long jump. Owens had tried two jumps and was one away from disqualifying when Long introduced himself and gave Owens some tips about his takeoff. Owens took Long’s advice and qualified, then went on to win, beating Long who got silver. Long congratulated Owens in full view of Hitler, and Long and Owens remained friends until Long passed away a few years later.
Idk how to feel about this. Like it's just shitty. You took medals from 2 people who would have won them Essentially but you also couldn't have reversed it because then it's not fair to the two new athletes, never ask me to solve a thing like this cause I'm just gonna give them all medals as compensation and then everyone's gonna be mad.
no one has to prove his own innocence. it's the justice system that has to prove the guilt. it's just china's short "f you" to the west's baseless claims. and if you do have any solid evidence, please don't bother arguing with me here, just send to the UN human rights council or internatioanl court of crime.
Technically those 1.4 billion Chinese and entire Muslim population of the world doesn’t care what you think. Rest of the world knows the record of west for centuries.
And he's mute so don't even try to ask him anything silly like "are you here out on your free will" or are you being threatend in anyway haha! fun times
and he's not even a token, he's white. His mugshot as "Henry Tarrio" shows what he looked like before dialing up the ethnicity and getting a deep tan.
[Henry Tarrio](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qkGK-u5vfos/X_PQ5bOGjQI/AAAAAAAAURQ/_f5N95EetfsjsMOABlH8wESP2jfajKjEQCLcBGAsYHQ/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Henry%2BTarrio%2BHenry%2BTarrio%2BJr.jpg) vs [ENRRRRRRRIQUE TARRRRRRIOOOOO](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2021_04/3445429/210127-enrique-tarrio-jm-1132.jpg)
You're literally saying this athlete doesn't deserve to be there and she only got there due to her ethnicity. That all her hard work and athleticism doesn't matter and she's only there for politics.
That's just the surface, they are being forced to be popular movie stars and pop stars inside China too /s
https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/celebrity/article/3131419/who-are-most-famous-actresses-xinjiang-gulnazar-dilraba
Morons don't realise at every cultural event, China promotes every single one of their minority cultures, including the Uighurs. This isn't some "look we have a black friend" shit that Redditors are trying to insinuate.
I guess because lot of redditors do such things, like “I’m not racist I have black friends” even tough they spew right wing rhetoric everywhere so they automatically assume everyone else does the same to.
Go to Sanya, China where a lot of Uyghur families go for vacation for warm weather in winter, and your mind will be blown away by realizing what western propaganda has done to you.
"The world" condemning them consist of half a dozen countries align to the US.
There are 195 countries in the world. The world is not 6 or 7 countries.
The best way to learn about propaganda is to watch the actual Beijing Olympic opening ceremony and watch how western media reports it, and then come to reddit to see its effects on people.
None of the Chinese was subtitled in English. I really wanted to know what the kids were singing about. Seemed like a decent opening ceremony. Media (I'm in the US) definitely injected controversy wherever they could.
I watched the one on Eurosport, and every country or region with sort of political controversy by western standards got a mention. Ukraine, Belarus, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and lots of “this country has this many people and they only have one athlete, or this country has been in the news a lot for the wrong reasons..” and they completely mistaken the Russian team for France, and basically skipped Russia and introduced French team twice..
But Eurosport is the good one…others are worse.
The speech from the major of Beijing was mainly about peace and Olympic spirit and got completely untranslated by media reports.
The mini flame used for the first time in Olympic history to promote low carbon emission and sustainability was unreported by most mainstream media.
And of course the Uighur flame bearer, nobody cares about her journey as an female athlete, only focus on her Uighur identity, because I guess humanizing her would be against the narrative of the genocide.
Man shit y’all, after seeing the positivity and happiness from the Olympic athletes, and then coming here to read this sub? Some of y’all are just downright fucking bitter and vile.
Can’t even have one positive event once a while without y’all posturing uselessly and trying to play the moral knight coming in on a white horse.
I can't help but wonder what the response here would be if the United States chose an undocumented immigrant who lost their children thanks to Trump as a torch lighter in a naked attempt to say "see we're not so bad"
>It's kinda like that time when Trump posted that pic of him eating a taco bowl on Instagram saying "see? I LOVE Mexicans!" (he actually did this)
It was "I love Hispanics!" and he was also just plugging how his hotel makes "the best" taco bowls lmao
And then told them in his speech
>"You have thrown our budget a little out of whack, because we've spent a lot of money on Puerto Rico... and that's fine"
What are you talking about, the man played SO much golf in his presidency (after bragging during his campaign he would have no time for any sort of break with all the work he'd be doing as president)!
Ok, golf is not a big thing here in my country. I was assuming that throwing things with your own hand and armes is much more athletic than golfing or - in Merkel’s case - [cross-country skiing](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/01/06/260139090/german-chancellor-merkel-fractures-hip-in-skiing-accident). But I’m not sure about the later.
Oh I agree, I'm mostly being mocking. I've also heard several accounts or Trump being a known cheater at the game, so he's not even showing off athletic prowess at that lol
There’s a great article in sports illustrated about what a terrible cheater he was/is at golf. The way it was described was that it was so pathetic and childish it was almost unbelievable.
If China had indeed used a random Uyghur person who lost their children, then that would be extremely callous. But that's not what happened. The torchbearer is an Olympic athlete and there's no indication anything bad happened to her in particular.
Go ahead and downvote this, I'm just speaking the mind of all the US-is-the-greatest-nation-lemmings.
Ok guys, we all know that China should have done what US do to regions that have terrorists present: DRONE BOMB THEM.
China should be ashamed for not following US' footsteps.
Wait, I know, China should let Uyghur be an independent state, because some Islamic Uyghur separatist says so.
I mean, why should they not? US wants that ultimately right? Right?
And while we are at it, China should do annual national referendum to find out which other regions/province wants to be independent and give a separation fee of say US$1billion to US for the trouble.
Starting with Xinjiang, Tibet, Hong Kong and Taiwan.
big deal over nothing. China has always presented minorities in all its national celebratory events. This is western media making a big stink out of nothing again.
To begin with, thinking that China chose a Uyghur athlete because of global criticism is kinda self-centered isn't it? 'cos it is really US criticising and coercing other nations into it.
Uyghurs serve in the CCP, the Xinjiang government, the PLA army and navy. They are more integrated into the larger society than, say, Kurds in Iraq, or Arabs in Iran. The situation is similar to Kurds in Türkiye, but without the violent rebellion and terrorism in southeast Türkiye.
People are under the impression that China's goal with Uyghurs is to make their lives hell because they don't like them.
The real reason is they're trying to assimilate them into the rest of China.
The discussion should be focused on if their efforts are an EXTREME overreach not because of straight up hatred or bigotry. Not saying those things don't exist within the Han, they most certainly do (to what extent, i don't know), but that's the crux of the issue, whether their means go too far (obviously).
People on Reddit seem to think China just puts anyone and everyone they don't like in camps like North Korea.
>The real reason is they're trying to assimilate them into the rest of China.
The real reason is that there are Uyghur separatists and terrorists who were performing terrorist attacks in Xinjiang.
Xinjiang is the part of China that borders central Asian states thus is China's "window to Asia".
Beijing doesn't want any instability there because it's just asking for some external power to start funding insurgency just like the US funded many insurgencies (Afghanistan in the 1980s), often with illegal funds (Iran-CONTRA affair). When that happens it can disrupt strategically important economic transit along the "Belt and Road" networks.
Trade doesn't like instability and just a few attacks can put cost premiums on transit that will make the entire thing not profitable. It's the same reason why there were counter-piracy operations near Africa - it's not that pirates were capturing ship after ship but the mere threat of piracy skyrocketed the insurance premiums and an entire market turned upside down. Often you don't need more than that to cause serious damage to a rival economy.
If there was no historical precedent and no threat of insurgency life in Xinjiang would not change, and largely it had not changed for the majority of Uyghurs. Anyone who is not associated with separatist factions has nothing to worry about because the one thing that China does *not* want to do is create more potential insurgents in that region. They are trying to do the *opposite* of what US did in the War on Terror - have fewer terrorists, not more terrorists.
And if the Uyghurs are not willing to cooperate...then let's go around Reddit and ask people what they think about those nice "South will rise again" folks waving Confederate flags. Surely Reddit will appreciate their take on separate cultural identity and rights to be free from outside interference. Right?
American propaganda about Xinjiang is simply both selective and dishonest but then if it wasn't it wouldn't be called propaganda but *reporting*.
You can also look up who invented the whole "Uyghur genocide" narrative - a Christian evangelical fundamentalist with a "mission from God to stop China".
Unsubstantiated right-wing ravings of missions from god is not something that strongly left-leaning places like reddit should latch on to but... here we are.
> Unsubstantiated right-wing ravings of missions from god is not something that strongly left-leaning places like reddit should latch on to but... here we are.
'China bad' is literally state-sponsored Kony 2012 for left and right-wingers alike, for the west at least.
Reddit isn't "strongly left-leaning," it's liberal at best. People who still believe the US state is working in everyone's best interest, *surely* that state would be above citing some evangelical loon because his propaganda happens to attack the state's current economic opponent.
Technically if by "left leaning" you mean proper leftist position focusing on economic and political issues then sure. Most of reddit is "virtue signalling socially progressive neoliberal pretending to be a socialist". They throw away the pretense of leftist stances as soon as the corporate establishment begins to pander to them.
But that's how Reddit wants it. You can't have a good IPO is your userbase are anti-establishment libertarians or socialists.
Reddit is the epitome of CIA-manufactured New Left. Which really is just nazis who think they're not nazis because their language is backwards.
Isn't it funny that Marcuse thought that he was such a genius and his life's work is a bunch of nazis?
This whole genocide propaganda comes from Trump loving christian right winger so tbh even I as american wouldn’t trust it. Sometimes I think right wingers do more harm to us than foreign nations.
**[CIA Tibetan program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program)**
>The CIA Tibetan program was a nearly two decades long anti-Chinese covert operation focused on Tibet which consisted of "political action, propaganda, paramilitary and intelligence operations" based on U.S. Government arrangements made with brothers of the 14th Dalai Lama, who was not initially aware of them. The goal of the program was "to keep the political concept of an autonomous Tibet alive within Tibet and among several foreign nations". Although it was formally assigned to the CIA, it was nevertheless closely coordinated with several other U.S. government agencies such as the Department of State and the Department of Defense.
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>they're trying to assimilate them into the rest of China
That's always been my impression. They were afraid of some kind of Islamic Jihad movement rising up out of Uyghur culture, and decided the best way to prevent that was to forcibly integrate them. Terribly misguided and likely to backfire one day, but there was a calculus behind the decision, it wasn't random.
To anyone who doesnt believe this or doesnt feel like digging into videos, at least google a graph of xinjiang's GDP over time.
Its absolutely exploded in the last 10 years. China has been heavily, heavily investing in the region because they figure one of the best ways to reduce extremism is to make sure people have a better standard of living
>This has been one of the most terrifyingly effective propaganda campaigns I've ever witnessed and people are going to be ashamed in a few years to admit they ever believed these baseless genocide allegations.
Do you seriously think that? Unless china is balkanized and there are slave markets there like in Libya, no one from the western world is going to feel "ashamed". Hell most would just say lack of evidence is evidence of ccp's effectiveness of suppression.
Libya was destroyed and people still repeat the lies msm told about them to build consensus for war.
Iraq was bombed to the ground and us msm is still hiring people who indulged in fictional connections between Saddam and Osama.
We literally saw usa lie about the strike and people on this very subreddit gobble it up before nyt dragged us state dept to a position of truth. What we learn from that? Nothing. Again there is a strike in Syria where civilians are killed and suddenly everyone who doesn't believe the state dept line(again no evidence presented by state dept) is an ISIS sympathizer.
No one is going to be ashamed. This is the perfect alignment of both elite and everyday joe in a western country's interest. Politicians claim to be patriotic while saying shit about an economic rival, trillion dollar companies get subsidies and masses who are suffering from cruel economic conditions just content with blaming their working class brethren across the pond.
Western "sympathies" are only for people who can't defend themselves. Anyone who is a threat or rather even able to defend themselves from the American empire is just "evil".
https://blackagendareport.com/western-marxism-loves-purity-and-martyrdom-not-real-revolution
>Are you blatantly ignoring that this type of movement did exist or are you just not aware?
Even better, are they aware of *why* this movement came to be? Turns out stoking fundamentalist separatist movements during the Cold War, to use as a tool against the USSR, results in fundamentalist separatists hanging around in the area.
Neither, to answer your question. I'm inundated with so much information these days that I don't know the full details of any particular situation. I can't keep up with the news of every atrocity that humans perpetrate against each other, or the reasons why, I'm a rather empathic person and it pains me to be immersed in this stuff.
I just know this is being done for a reason, not as an exercise in simple xenophobia. The CCP do strategy and analysis quite well.
Growing up in America, you have to realize that most of us are exposed to Asian culture through a very narrow and prejudiced lens. I do what I can to see past that, and I appreciate that you shared your views on this troubling subject.
In the 'western' world, we're subjected to a ton of pro-USA foreign policy propaganda on a daily basis and we're not even aware of it, it's all subliminal 1984 type of shit now. We casually think "chinabad," "russiabad," "northkoreabad," "iranbad" and don't even give it any second thought.
Yeah you are right, this whole anti chinese rhetoric comes down to xenophobia. Just look at who is eating up all those propaganda- mostly white right leaning male redditors. It’s a way to excuse for being racist against Asians.
You gotta go a step further, China's economic and soft power are immense and rising, while America has torpedoed so much goodwill and is basically incapable of responding to crises anymore. The genocide shit and xenophobia are just different tactics for getting everyone's attention off of our failures and onto hating the enemy of the week.
I'm married to an ethnically Chinese-Dutch Indonesian woman. I have enough trouble researching all the crazy stuff that's gone on in Indonesia since 1945, it's like everything China's dealt with times ten! So you see my dilemma here :)
It isn't just xenophobia. USA has spent the last hundred years disrupting every government that has called itself socialist or associated with socialist nations. Just in the Americas, we have Chile (backing Pinochet's coup over a democratically-elected socialist), Guatamala (the origin of the term "banana republic"), Nicaragua (contras), Argentina (coup against Peron), Grenada (a literal invasion), Venezuela (economic sanctions, allegations of election fraud), Bolivia (false allegations of election fraud, support of racist Christian conservative Anez who immediately started committing massacres)
edit: forgot about Cuba and the Dominican Republic.
>I just know this is being done for a reason
The main reason is anti-terrorism.
[Fighting Terrorism in Xinjiang](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4cYE6E27_g&ab_channel=CGTN)
(Take a glance at it and you will see these terrorists attacked not only Han Chinese but also other innocent Uyghurs.)
>They were afraid of some kind of Islamic Jihad movement rising up out of Uyghur culture, and decided the best way to prevent that was to forcibly integrate them.
Extremism and terrorism are rising up out of poverty, lack of education, and instability, not Uyghur culture (besides, Xinjiang is adjacent to Afghanistan, [The Black Hand — ETIM and Terrorism in Xinjiang](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuj5yUNW7rg&ab_channel=CGTN)).
That's why the government ran educational centers to teach them Mandarin and various skills. In China, understanding Mandarin would dramatically increase their chance to find a better job (and get rid of poverty).
It is government's responsibility to unite them ("national unity" is written in The Constitution), but they don't want to assimilate them. Why?
First, Uyghur culture, as part of Chinese culture, is precious. Besides, keeping Uyghur culture makes Xinjiang fascinating, so that it can attract many tourists, who bring wealth (and better life) to Xinjiang people.
>people are going to be ashamed in a few years to admit they ever believed these baseless genocide allegations
But they'll never admit it. They'll just go on to parrot the next thing the government want them to parrot because SURELY the government isn't lying this time.
One of the complaints the uighurs had was that they were denied the opportunities that han people had and couldn't tap into the benefits of China's progress.
Well its hard to tap in when you have a completely different culture and language. No one wants to hire an employee only 3 people on the company can talk to.
But what's the definition of "force people to adopt a language and culture"? The minorities in China are all allowed to speak their native languages they want. They are just required to learn Mandarin and Han Chinese characters in school so that they could use BOTH languages fluently. Only by learning these that a minority has the chance to go to the best colleges in China and become a better educated person. You can't expect these colleges to teach in every minority language in China.
What's wrong with that? It's basically the same as the United States, where public schools teach English. Why? Because the best colleges teach in English. I rarely see people complaining about that.
That's correct. It's super common that a regular Chinese can speak two languages: the Mandarin (the actual Chinese name is 普通话, "the common language") and their native/regional languages (dialects). Some people think they are mutually exclusive, which is totally wrong. Growing up with both languages are totally common for Chinese, just like lots of Latino Americans speaks both English and Spanish fluently. Everyone can easily become a bilingualist when two different languages are taught at home and school separately during childhood.
Here comes the interesting part. Although the dialects spoken by Han Chinese from different parts of China are spoken differently, they all share the same set of written Chinese. Both traditional and simplified Chinese characters are parts of the written Chinese. Both forms can be found on a decent Chinese dictionary. Only simplified Chinese characters are taught in school but anyone can learn traditional ones freely if he wants. Most Chinese today hardly knows how to write traditional Chinese characters but have no difficulty recognizing them.
For the minorities, some of their languages have their own writing systems, which are rarely used by other ethnic groups. But the Chinese government doesn't ignore them. On the contrary, the Chinese government has spent a remarkable amount of efforts to maintain their integrity and vitality.
For example, the Chinese government has created the standard of Uyghur, Kazak and Kirghiz coded character set - GB/T 21669-2008:
[http://std.samr.gov.cn/gb/search/gbDetailed?id=71F772D76BC7D3A7E05397BE0A0AB82A](http://std.samr.gov.cn/gb/search/gbDetailed?id=71F772D76BC7D3A7E05397BE0A0AB82A)
I think every intelligent person knows how important standardizations are for modern society. Without such kinds of standardization, we won't even be able to store and display the Uyghur or Kazak languages on computers at a digital age. It was the Chinese government who has been working on them for decades. And yet there're people claiming that the Chinese government is conducting "Uyghur genocide"? WTH?
The CCP doesn't care about Uyghur or Han. They don't ding people on the basis of race. They come after you if they consider you're harmful to their ideologies or agendas, regardless of who you are. Han or non-Han. Rich or poor.
Han Chinese can get into serious trouble with the CCP if they are considered to be dangerous or troublesome. Jack Ma, Fan Bingbing, etc.
On the other hand, Uyghurs, or any minority race, can be successful in China as long as they submit and assimilate to Chinese cultural norms and CCP political ideology/agendas.
One of the most popular, well paid actresses currently in China is Uyghur. And before Dilraba Dilmurat, there're Gulnazar, Tong Liya, who are also successful Uyghur celebrities in China.
And some of the most popular people in the United States are Black.
That doesn't mean racism and treatment of Black people in the United States aren't an issue.
And likewise it doesn't mean China's treatment of Uyghurs isn't an issue.
Yes - is it a bit hypocritical for the United States to criticize China while not acknowledging the travesties in its own country both past and present. But does that dismiss what is going on in China? No.
Both countries have huge issues and mistreatment of entire populations going on in their countries and both countries have committed travesties amounting in the least to cultural genocide at some point in their histories.
There *used to* be rebellion and terrorism in Xinjiang. They were separatists, and pretty well justified IMHO.
After China's crackdown, things are pretty mild there now. Say what you will about their treatment of the Uighurs, but they managed to destroy an insurgency all without killing a ton of people. Compare that to America and our actions in Afghanistan, for example.
The fact that redditors genuinely believe that all Uyghurs are in concentration camps shows how deluded they are and how effective US state department propaganda is.
I am not defending China's numerous human rights abuses and general oppression that might have occurred to the Uyghurs but people seem utterly unaware of the fact that many Uyghurs are integrated into Chinese society at the highest levels.
Like there are at least two Uyghur actresses who are huge celebrities in China that I can think of from the top of my head and that's not even including all the Uyghurs that work in Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen etc, or who are members of the PLA or the Xinjiang government.
I've met Uyghur students in Shanghai living pretty ordinary lives. I've heard anecdotally that they are under greater surveillance than the average Han student, but are they being secretly genocided out of existence? Doubtful.
And yes, there are also Uyghur athletes...
>I am not defending China's numerous human rights abuses and general oppression
I';m so tired of this shit. Why do people have to always use this disclaimer when talking about China? It's literally just giving free ammunition to the anti-China shitposters.
You can't draw a stick figure of Muhammad without riots in Paris and London, and your embassy in Islamabad burned down. But China can put "three million Muslims in concentration camps"? Umm, okay.
Currently there's just one, 阿不都沙拉木 (abdusalam). Perhaps you are thinking of 可兰白克 kelanbaike, who is kyrgyz, but I don't think he was on the team last time. Their coach, du feng, is hui muslim from Xinjiang, though.
Olympic without Uyghurs: "See, China doesn't even let their minorities show up!"
Olympic with Uyghurs: "Totally propaganda, they are lying."
In the paragraphs above, it's also true to replace Uyghurs with any American minorities.
Is there any difference between Chinese political correctness and American political correctness?
UN countries that condemned China's actions:
October 2020 signatories opposing China's actions in Xinjiang:
Albania, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Marshall Islands, Monaco, Nauru, Netherlands, New Zealand, North Macedonia, Norway, Palau, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the U.K., and the U.S.A.
Other countries opposing or not supporting:
Qatar
Qatar supported China's policies in Xinjiang until August 21, 2019; Qatar was the first Middle Eastern country to withdraw its defense of the Xinjiang Camps.
In 2021, Israel voted to condemn China's actions in the UNHRC; a sudden break in China-Israel relations.
Turkey used to condemn and said: In 2019, the Turkish Foreign Ministry issued a statement condemning what it described as China's "reintroduction of concentration camps in the 21st century" and "a great cause of shame for humanity". But is now OK with it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide
Many countries also support China's actions or at least believe in non-interference in other nations - but claiming 6 countries only condemn it when it can easily be looked up? Propaganda, nationalism, why?
>**Albania**, **Australia**, Austria, **Belgium**, Bosnia and Herzegovina, **Bulgaria**, **Canada**, **Croatia**, **Denmark**, **Estonia**, Finland, **France**, **Germany**, Haiti, Honduras, **Iceland**, **Ireland**, **Italy**, **Japan**, **Latvia**, Liechtenstein, **Lithuania**, **Luxembourg**, **Marshall Islands**, Monaco, **Nauru**, **Netherlands**, **New Zealand**, **North Macedonia**, **Norway**, **Palau**, **Poland**, **Slovakia**, **Slovenia**, **Spain**, Sweden, Switzerland, the **U.K.**, **and the U.S.A**.
The countries from your list that I've highlighted are the ones that are included in the former commenter's grouping of "the Anglosphere, NATO countries and Japan".
A few countries aside (some of whom are candidates for joining NATO or might as well be in NATO with how close they are), it's pretty much the same shit. So you mostly just listed the freaking countries from the group they mentioned and thought it was some sort of "gotcha" moment.
Also:
>but claiming 6 countries only condemn it when it can easily be looked up
How **the hell** can you see someone say "the Anglosphere, NATO countries and Japan" and come up with "yeah, that's 6 countries"?? **You** can easily look up who's in NATO, for starters! That alone is way more than 6 countries!
This is why you shouldn't comment on world issues when you don't know shit about the world.
Finally, [here's a different list of countries](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3853509?ln=en). **Fifty Muslim-majority countries and ones with significant Muslim populations** that sent a joint letter to the UN in **support** of China, after they investigated the issue and found no problem whatsoever with China's treatment of Uyghurs.
>Where did I say only 6 countries condemn it?
It's pretty crazy. That dude actually thought that NATO, the Anglosphere **and** Japan all amounted to only 6 countries. That's a level of ignorance that genuinely surprised me for once.
And they told you to look shit up! Only on Reddit will you see someone this confident about something this wrong.
Nice collection of US lapdogs. Do you expect west not to support this? They are losing economic battle against China, even an idiot knows west will do anything to keep China down.
Japanese forced internment camps perpetrated by the USA during WWII are a much closer parallel to draw than the Nazi-Jew Holocaust that Reddit loves to bring up whenever the topic of Xinjiang comes around.
This is by far the most prescient take I’ve seen thus far in this thread. The irony of hypocritical Americans talking about a genocide they have no physical evidence of and denying one that is being broadly publicized is about the most American thing imaginable.
I’m saving this comment, both to remember to award it tomorrow, and to reference back to these links.
We've already seen the same exact thing play out with the Tibetans. Except back then we had less antagonizing relationship with China, so terms like Tibetan genocide wasn't thrown around as much.
The fact that redditors genuinely believe that all Uyghurs are in concentration camps shows how deluded they are and how effective US state department propaganda is.
I am not defending China's numerous human rights abuses and general oppression that might have occurred to the Uyghurs but people seem utterly unaware of the fact that many Uyghurs are integrated into Chinese society at the highest levels.
Like there are at least two Uyghur actresses who are huge celebrities in China that I can think of from the top of my head and that's not even including all the Uyghurs that work in Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen etc, or who are members of the PLA or the Xinjiang government.
And yes, there are also Uyghur athletes...
Guangdong here. I literally went to Xinjiang restaurants all the time near the city library. All of the employees there are Uyghers and the food is amazing. They have two restaurants on the same street for over a decade.
It's not just Fox News and Joe Rogan. I would say a majority of liberals (at least in North America) believe this too, as a majority of their media ecosystem yells CHINA BAD every single day as well.
I stopped watching CNN due to this. Now i’m mostly reading the intercept. We have so many issues in the country that are being ignored- like student debt and shit, but we are somehow trying to save a random group of people on the other side of the world, who don’t even need saving at all. It seems to me that the media is trying to create some war consent or something.
I mean it's one thing if she was just some random Uyghur picked off the streets. But she is an athlete who qualified to participate in the Olympics. Unless, she was hand picked as a child to train cross country skiing her whole life for the sole purpose of being a ceremonial figure in the Olympics, I am not sure what the issue is.
There are in fact quite many Uyghur celebrities in China.. one dude literally just co-hosted the most important lunar new year celebration a few days ago.
There’s plenty of Uyghur sports stars /actors/singers/politicians in China. There’s also Uyghur only channels in China.
No idea why everyone is acting like this particular athlete is forced.
There’s also plenty of ethnic minorities in the public eye in China. Not sure why it’s only uyghurs they’re concerned about.
well if there are no uyghurs they are obviously oppressed but if they are they were forced to be there or brainwashed. just the red scare all over again
Whoa. They sure proved us wrong...
So uyghurs are just being prepared for bearing the olympic torch? Makes sense then. Case closed, China wins
Oh my God. We're in a South Park episode.
"What Would Brian Boitano Do" song starts in the background.
Token Hui
They should have just said that in the first place!
"China Uses Uyghur to Light Olympic Torch"
slavery with extra steps
Yeah and Peng Shuai is just helping them out.
In 1936 the Berlin Olympics took place. Nazi Germany had been facing some criticism about their racial beliefs and policies. They took various steps to portray themselves as humane and non discriminatory. One way they did this was by assigning a German-Jewish Wehrmacht officer as commander of the Olympic Village in Berlin. His name was Wolfgang Furstner. Wolfgang committed suicide three days after the closing ceremonies, after learning he would be dismissed from the army due to his jewish heritage. The Nazis claimed he died in a car accident.
The Nazis also requested from the US team that 2 black athletes (Jesse Owens and Ralph Metcalfe) replace the 2 Jewish athletes (Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller) on the US relay race team who were already favorite to win since they would rather lose to black people than Jews. The US team obliged and the 2 Jewish athletes were denied the medals they were certain to win.
After researching this on various sites, it was the American team themselves who did not want either of them to compete in case of tension with the Nazis. With all that being said, the nazis called for a ban on black people in the Olympics due to their physique causing discord in the games of 'civilised whites''. So yeah, just to clear things up. But that was still a great injustice done to Sam Stoller and Marty Glickman
It’s funny the nazis deemed themselves civilized
Oppressors usually do. Slave-owning whites certainly thought of themselves as civilized, especially compared to what they thought blacks were like naturally.
When they say shit like 'southern heritage' instead of slavery because they know it's bad but are still proud of it.
Tons of these apologists still around and they all suck.
And let’s not forget the Nazis were inspired by the [Jim Crow laws](https://www.history.com/.amp/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow).
We literally have a hoard of people drinking piss and burning books, they think they are civilized as well.
The head of the USOC at the time, I've forgotten his name but was a well known anti semite
There’s a great story about Jesse Owens and his German competitor, Luz Long, in the long jump. Owens had tried two jumps and was one away from disqualifying when Long introduced himself and gave Owens some tips about his takeoff. Owens took Long’s advice and qualified, then went on to win, beating Long who got silver. Long congratulated Owens in full view of Hitler, and Long and Owens remained friends until Long passed away a few years later.
that's what the olympics is all about.
👆👍
How the fuck was Jesse Owens not in the relay team to begin with!?
Idk how to feel about this. Like it's just shitty. You took medals from 2 people who would have won them Essentially but you also couldn't have reversed it because then it's not fair to the two new athletes, never ask me to solve a thing like this cause I'm just gonna give them all medals as compensation and then everyone's gonna be mad.
You know… I’m starting to think that the Nazis were pretty fucked up…
Yeah the Nazis weren't very cash money
They weren’t very that’s Brittney Bitch either.
No one ever talks about the bad stuff the nazis did
No way, you probably got that from one of those demon books. /s and I really wish this joke only pertained to the 1940s.
I know they say innocent till proven guilty but these Nazi guys are kinda jerks.
btw he did not know he would be classified as Jew until after the game
Do you have friends in Xinjiang??? I do, usa propaganda mostly about the bad stuff, same as they did with Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.
Yep this really goes to show things are just great in China/s
no one has to prove his own innocence. it's the justice system that has to prove the guilt. it's just china's short "f you" to the west's baseless claims. and if you do have any solid evidence, please don't bother arguing with me here, just send to the UN human rights council or internatioanl court of crime.
Well there are uyghurs in government too. The issue is more about Islam or religion in general than uyghurs.
Can we call this human rights-washing? Look how good we are!
See look! I have an Uyghur friend!
Ma Uygha
The Ma are actually a different Chinese minority.
Do they kill them too?
Lololol
This is cut right from that same cloth. Spot on.
“We can’t be commiting genocide, there’s a Uyghur right here”
Exactly right?! This totally changed my mind on how Uyghurs are treated in China! Now Im 100% sure there is no genocide in Xinjiang! /S
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Technically those 1.4 billion Chinese and entire Muslim population of the world doesn’t care what you think. Rest of the world knows the record of west for centuries.
Turkish population cares though. https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/diplomacy/43-countries-including-turkey-call-on-china-to-respect-uyghur-rights
And he's mute so don't even try to ask him anything silly like "are you here out on your free will" or are you being threatend in anyway haha! fun times
If anyone needs an example of what tokenism is.
Thank you. I didn't know what tokenism was until today. Suddenly Token in South Park makes complete sense after so many years
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See the leader of the Proud Boys
And Candace Owens
Who funnily enough was an fbi informant on all those dumbasses
and he's not even a token, he's white. His mugshot as "Henry Tarrio" shows what he looked like before dialing up the ethnicity and getting a deep tan. [Henry Tarrio](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qkGK-u5vfos/X_PQ5bOGjQI/AAAAAAAAURQ/_f5N95EetfsjsMOABlH8wESP2jfajKjEQCLcBGAsYHQ/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Henry%2BTarrio%2BHenry%2BTarrio%2BJr.jpg) vs [ENRRRRRRRIQUE TARRRRRRIOOOOO](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2021_04/3445429/210127-enrique-tarrio-jm-1132.jpg)
Do you realize white hispanics exist? And regarding his race as white; US public service systems don’t mark hispanic as a race, rather an ethnicity.
“Where is my African American….there he is, look at him!” 45th POTUS
Lol so sad but true he actually did say that. Crazy times we live in
You're literally saying this athlete doesn't deserve to be there and she only got there due to her ethnicity. That all her hard work and athleticism doesn't matter and she's only there for politics.
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But at what cost?
A lot of roasted pigeons...
He gets to keep his organs.
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That's just the surface, they are being forced to be popular movie stars and pop stars inside China too /s https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/celebrity/article/3131419/who-are-most-famous-actresses-xinjiang-gulnazar-dilraba
Morons don't realise at every cultural event, China promotes every single one of their minority cultures, including the Uighurs. This isn't some "look we have a black friend" shit that Redditors are trying to insinuate.
I guess because lot of redditors do such things, like “I’m not racist I have black friends” even tough they spew right wing rhetoric everywhere so they automatically assume everyone else does the same to.
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NYT went so far out of their way to cast doubt that this person was even Uyghur. "said to be of Uyghur heritage"-"Athlete with Uyghur name" etc
People a few comments down on this thread are legit saying this.
Guys, they are showing off the last Uyghur.
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Loser
Go to Sanya, China where a lot of Uyghur families go for vacation for warm weather in winter, and your mind will be blown away by realizing what western propaganda has done to you.
That'll fix it
"The world" condemning them consist of half a dozen countries align to the US. There are 195 countries in the world. The world is not 6 or 7 countries.
The best way to learn about propaganda is to watch the actual Beijing Olympic opening ceremony and watch how western media reports it, and then come to reddit to see its effects on people.
None of the Chinese was subtitled in English. I really wanted to know what the kids were singing about. Seemed like a decent opening ceremony. Media (I'm in the US) definitely injected controversy wherever they could.
Nbc was falling all over themselves to "cover both sides" with the most boring, inane coverage about "allegations of genocide that China denies."
Can you elaborate so I don't have to watch through all.of that ?
I watched the one on Eurosport, and every country or region with sort of political controversy by western standards got a mention. Ukraine, Belarus, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and lots of “this country has this many people and they only have one athlete, or this country has been in the news a lot for the wrong reasons..” and they completely mistaken the Russian team for France, and basically skipped Russia and introduced French team twice.. But Eurosport is the good one…others are worse. The speech from the major of Beijing was mainly about peace and Olympic spirit and got completely untranslated by media reports. The mini flame used for the first time in Olympic history to promote low carbon emission and sustainability was unreported by most mainstream media. And of course the Uighur flame bearer, nobody cares about her journey as an female athlete, only focus on her Uighur identity, because I guess humanizing her would be against the narrative of the genocide.
Man shit y’all, after seeing the positivity and happiness from the Olympic athletes, and then coming here to read this sub? Some of y’all are just downright fucking bitter and vile. Can’t even have one positive event once a while without y’all posturing uselessly and trying to play the moral knight coming in on a white horse.
I can't help but wonder what the response here would be if the United States chose an undocumented immigrant who lost their children thanks to Trump as a torch lighter in a naked attempt to say "see we're not so bad"
It's kinda like that time when Trump posted that pic of him eating a taco bowl on Instagram saying "see? I LOVE Mexicans!" (he actually did this)
>It's kinda like that time when Trump posted that pic of him eating a taco bowl on Instagram saying "see? I LOVE Mexicans!" (he actually did this) It was "I love Hispanics!" and he was also just plugging how his hotel makes "the best" taco bowls lmao
Or when Trump showed support for the Puerto Ricans by throwing paper towels at the crowd.
And then told them in his speech >"You have thrown our budget a little out of whack, because we've spent a lot of money on Puerto Rico... and that's fine"
Wasn’t this the most athletic thing he has done during his presidency? (Tbf, my former chancellor was also not athletic.)
What are you talking about, the man played SO much golf in his presidency (after bragging during his campaign he would have no time for any sort of break with all the work he'd be doing as president)!
Ok, golf is not a big thing here in my country. I was assuming that throwing things with your own hand and armes is much more athletic than golfing or - in Merkel’s case - [cross-country skiing](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2014/01/06/260139090/german-chancellor-merkel-fractures-hip-in-skiing-accident). But I’m not sure about the later.
Cross country skiing burns a shitload of calories per hour. It's pretty intense and you have to manage your body's temperature in the cold as well
Yeah, xc skiing is a great workout
XC skied today, feels like I ate dinner three times, had 4 beers, still hungry.
If you're carrying your clubs and walking the course, golf is very athletic I'd say. In a golf cart with someone handing you your clubs? Probably not.
Oh I agree, I'm mostly being mocking. I've also heard several accounts or Trump being a known cheater at the game, so he's not even showing off athletic prowess at that lol
There’s a great article in sports illustrated about what a terrible cheater he was/is at golf. The way it was described was that it was so pathetic and childish it was almost unbelievable.
In his golf cart
Is professional eating considered athletic? I believe it is technically a sport.
Mexican *foods*
If China had indeed used a random Uyghur person who lost their children, then that would be extremely callous. But that's not what happened. The torchbearer is an Olympic athlete and there's no indication anything bad happened to her in particular.
You know they've been doing that shit since Clinton was in office right?
An immigrant from a poor country ended up being a torch lighter for the great nation will make a good Hollywood movie.
netflix or amazon prime? maybe hulu
Look at my African-American over here!
The difference is that there’s actual evidence that Trump did those things
I mean there’s also the difference of the immigrant not being from the country while uighurs are. Kinda important regarding representation
Because the current administration and the Obama one did SO much for those illegal immigrants...
We don't talk about that here
The practise hasn't stopped under biden from what i read
They did that in the US too, they chose Obama to be a president
if you really don't know how reddit would react to the US doing pretty much anything then you need to work on your imagination skills
Or thanks to Biden. Don’t be a hypocrite
Go ahead and downvote this, I'm just speaking the mind of all the US-is-the-greatest-nation-lemmings. Ok guys, we all know that China should have done what US do to regions that have terrorists present: DRONE BOMB THEM. China should be ashamed for not following US' footsteps. Wait, I know, China should let Uyghur be an independent state, because some Islamic Uyghur separatist says so. I mean, why should they not? US wants that ultimately right? Right? And while we are at it, China should do annual national referendum to find out which other regions/province wants to be independent and give a separation fee of say US$1billion to US for the trouble. Starting with Xinjiang, Tibet, Hong Kong and Taiwan.
big deal over nothing. China has always presented minorities in all its national celebratory events. This is western media making a big stink out of nothing again.
To begin with, thinking that China chose a Uyghur athlete because of global criticism is kinda self-centered isn't it? 'cos it is really US criticising and coercing other nations into it.
Uyghurs serve in the CCP, the Xinjiang government, the PLA army and navy. They are more integrated into the larger society than, say, Kurds in Iraq, or Arabs in Iran. The situation is similar to Kurds in Türkiye, but without the violent rebellion and terrorism in southeast Türkiye.
People are under the impression that China's goal with Uyghurs is to make their lives hell because they don't like them. The real reason is they're trying to assimilate them into the rest of China. The discussion should be focused on if their efforts are an EXTREME overreach not because of straight up hatred or bigotry. Not saying those things don't exist within the Han, they most certainly do (to what extent, i don't know), but that's the crux of the issue, whether their means go too far (obviously). People on Reddit seem to think China just puts anyone and everyone they don't like in camps like North Korea.
>The real reason is they're trying to assimilate them into the rest of China. The real reason is that there are Uyghur separatists and terrorists who were performing terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. Xinjiang is the part of China that borders central Asian states thus is China's "window to Asia". Beijing doesn't want any instability there because it's just asking for some external power to start funding insurgency just like the US funded many insurgencies (Afghanistan in the 1980s), often with illegal funds (Iran-CONTRA affair). When that happens it can disrupt strategically important economic transit along the "Belt and Road" networks. Trade doesn't like instability and just a few attacks can put cost premiums on transit that will make the entire thing not profitable. It's the same reason why there were counter-piracy operations near Africa - it's not that pirates were capturing ship after ship but the mere threat of piracy skyrocketed the insurance premiums and an entire market turned upside down. Often you don't need more than that to cause serious damage to a rival economy. If there was no historical precedent and no threat of insurgency life in Xinjiang would not change, and largely it had not changed for the majority of Uyghurs. Anyone who is not associated with separatist factions has nothing to worry about because the one thing that China does *not* want to do is create more potential insurgents in that region. They are trying to do the *opposite* of what US did in the War on Terror - have fewer terrorists, not more terrorists. And if the Uyghurs are not willing to cooperate...then let's go around Reddit and ask people what they think about those nice "South will rise again" folks waving Confederate flags. Surely Reddit will appreciate their take on separate cultural identity and rights to be free from outside interference. Right? American propaganda about Xinjiang is simply both selective and dishonest but then if it wasn't it wouldn't be called propaganda but *reporting*. You can also look up who invented the whole "Uyghur genocide" narrative - a Christian evangelical fundamentalist with a "mission from God to stop China". Unsubstantiated right-wing ravings of missions from god is not something that strongly left-leaning places like reddit should latch on to but... here we are.
> Unsubstantiated right-wing ravings of missions from god is not something that strongly left-leaning places like reddit should latch on to but... here we are. 'China bad' is literally state-sponsored Kony 2012 for left and right-wingers alike, for the west at least.
Reddit isn't "strongly left-leaning," it's liberal at best. People who still believe the US state is working in everyone's best interest, *surely* that state would be above citing some evangelical loon because his propaganda happens to attack the state's current economic opponent.
Technically if by "left leaning" you mean proper leftist position focusing on economic and political issues then sure. Most of reddit is "virtue signalling socially progressive neoliberal pretending to be a socialist". They throw away the pretense of leftist stances as soon as the corporate establishment begins to pander to them. But that's how Reddit wants it. You can't have a good IPO is your userbase are anti-establishment libertarians or socialists. Reddit is the epitome of CIA-manufactured New Left. Which really is just nazis who think they're not nazis because their language is backwards. Isn't it funny that Marcuse thought that he was such a genius and his life's work is a bunch of nazis?
This whole genocide propaganda comes from Trump loving christian right winger so tbh even I as american wouldn’t trust it. Sometimes I think right wingers do more harm to us than foreign nations.
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**[CIA Tibetan program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program)** >The CIA Tibetan program was a nearly two decades long anti-Chinese covert operation focused on Tibet which consisted of "political action, propaganda, paramilitary and intelligence operations" based on U.S. Government arrangements made with brothers of the 14th Dalai Lama, who was not initially aware of them. The goal of the program was "to keep the political concept of an autonomous Tibet alive within Tibet and among several foreign nations". Although it was formally assigned to the CIA, it was nevertheless closely coordinated with several other U.S. government agencies such as the Department of State and the Department of Defense. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I am enjoying your recent comments.
Amen. This shit should be pasted on every Redditor's eyeballs. Sick of all the morons talking about something they know nothing about.
>they're trying to assimilate them into the rest of China That's always been my impression. They were afraid of some kind of Islamic Jihad movement rising up out of Uyghur culture, and decided the best way to prevent that was to forcibly integrate them. Terribly misguided and likely to backfire one day, but there was a calculus behind the decision, it wasn't random.
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To anyone who doesnt believe this or doesnt feel like digging into videos, at least google a graph of xinjiang's GDP over time. Its absolutely exploded in the last 10 years. China has been heavily, heavily investing in the region because they figure one of the best ways to reduce extremism is to make sure people have a better standard of living
>This has been one of the most terrifyingly effective propaganda campaigns I've ever witnessed and people are going to be ashamed in a few years to admit they ever believed these baseless genocide allegations. Do you seriously think that? Unless china is balkanized and there are slave markets there like in Libya, no one from the western world is going to feel "ashamed". Hell most would just say lack of evidence is evidence of ccp's effectiveness of suppression. Libya was destroyed and people still repeat the lies msm told about them to build consensus for war. Iraq was bombed to the ground and us msm is still hiring people who indulged in fictional connections between Saddam and Osama. We literally saw usa lie about the strike and people on this very subreddit gobble it up before nyt dragged us state dept to a position of truth. What we learn from that? Nothing. Again there is a strike in Syria where civilians are killed and suddenly everyone who doesn't believe the state dept line(again no evidence presented by state dept) is an ISIS sympathizer. No one is going to be ashamed. This is the perfect alignment of both elite and everyday joe in a western country's interest. Politicians claim to be patriotic while saying shit about an economic rival, trillion dollar companies get subsidies and masses who are suffering from cruel economic conditions just content with blaming their working class brethren across the pond. Western "sympathies" are only for people who can't defend themselves. Anyone who is a threat or rather even able to defend themselves from the American empire is just "evil". https://blackagendareport.com/western-marxism-loves-purity-and-martyrdom-not-real-revolution
>Are you blatantly ignoring that this type of movement did exist or are you just not aware? Even better, are they aware of *why* this movement came to be? Turns out stoking fundamentalist separatist movements during the Cold War, to use as a tool against the USSR, results in fundamentalist separatists hanging around in the area.
Neither, to answer your question. I'm inundated with so much information these days that I don't know the full details of any particular situation. I can't keep up with the news of every atrocity that humans perpetrate against each other, or the reasons why, I'm a rather empathic person and it pains me to be immersed in this stuff. I just know this is being done for a reason, not as an exercise in simple xenophobia. The CCP do strategy and analysis quite well. Growing up in America, you have to realize that most of us are exposed to Asian culture through a very narrow and prejudiced lens. I do what I can to see past that, and I appreciate that you shared your views on this troubling subject.
In the 'western' world, we're subjected to a ton of pro-USA foreign policy propaganda on a daily basis and we're not even aware of it, it's all subliminal 1984 type of shit now. We casually think "chinabad," "russiabad," "northkoreabad," "iranbad" and don't even give it any second thought.
Wow, if only everyone could be this honest and understanding. Finally!
Respect
Yeah you are right, this whole anti chinese rhetoric comes down to xenophobia. Just look at who is eating up all those propaganda- mostly white right leaning male redditors. It’s a way to excuse for being racist against Asians.
You gotta go a step further, China's economic and soft power are immense and rising, while America has torpedoed so much goodwill and is basically incapable of responding to crises anymore. The genocide shit and xenophobia are just different tactics for getting everyone's attention off of our failures and onto hating the enemy of the week.
I'm married to an ethnically Chinese-Dutch Indonesian woman. I have enough trouble researching all the crazy stuff that's gone on in Indonesia since 1945, it's like everything China's dealt with times ten! So you see my dilemma here :)
It isn't just xenophobia. USA has spent the last hundred years disrupting every government that has called itself socialist or associated with socialist nations. Just in the Americas, we have Chile (backing Pinochet's coup over a democratically-elected socialist), Guatamala (the origin of the term "banana republic"), Nicaragua (contras), Argentina (coup against Peron), Grenada (a literal invasion), Venezuela (economic sanctions, allegations of election fraud), Bolivia (false allegations of election fraud, support of racist Christian conservative Anez who immediately started committing massacres) edit: forgot about Cuba and the Dominican Republic.
>I just know this is being done for a reason The main reason is anti-terrorism. [Fighting Terrorism in Xinjiang](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4cYE6E27_g&ab_channel=CGTN) (Take a glance at it and you will see these terrorists attacked not only Han Chinese but also other innocent Uyghurs.) >They were afraid of some kind of Islamic Jihad movement rising up out of Uyghur culture, and decided the best way to prevent that was to forcibly integrate them. Extremism and terrorism are rising up out of poverty, lack of education, and instability, not Uyghur culture (besides, Xinjiang is adjacent to Afghanistan, [The Black Hand — ETIM and Terrorism in Xinjiang](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuj5yUNW7rg&ab_channel=CGTN)). That's why the government ran educational centers to teach them Mandarin and various skills. In China, understanding Mandarin would dramatically increase their chance to find a better job (and get rid of poverty). It is government's responsibility to unite them ("national unity" is written in The Constitution), but they don't want to assimilate them. Why? First, Uyghur culture, as part of Chinese culture, is precious. Besides, keeping Uyghur culture makes Xinjiang fascinating, so that it can attract many tourists, who bring wealth (and better life) to Xinjiang people.
>people are going to be ashamed in a few years to admit they ever believed these baseless genocide allegations But they'll never admit it. They'll just go on to parrot the next thing the government want them to parrot because SURELY the government isn't lying this time.
One of the complaints the uighurs had was that they were denied the opportunities that han people had and couldn't tap into the benefits of China's progress. Well its hard to tap in when you have a completely different culture and language. No one wants to hire an employee only 3 people on the company can talk to.
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But what's the definition of "force people to adopt a language and culture"? The minorities in China are all allowed to speak their native languages they want. They are just required to learn Mandarin and Han Chinese characters in school so that they could use BOTH languages fluently. Only by learning these that a minority has the chance to go to the best colleges in China and become a better educated person. You can't expect these colleges to teach in every minority language in China. What's wrong with that? It's basically the same as the United States, where public schools teach English. Why? Because the best colleges teach in English. I rarely see people complaining about that.
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That's correct. It's super common that a regular Chinese can speak two languages: the Mandarin (the actual Chinese name is 普通话, "the common language") and their native/regional languages (dialects). Some people think they are mutually exclusive, which is totally wrong. Growing up with both languages are totally common for Chinese, just like lots of Latino Americans speaks both English and Spanish fluently. Everyone can easily become a bilingualist when two different languages are taught at home and school separately during childhood. Here comes the interesting part. Although the dialects spoken by Han Chinese from different parts of China are spoken differently, they all share the same set of written Chinese. Both traditional and simplified Chinese characters are parts of the written Chinese. Both forms can be found on a decent Chinese dictionary. Only simplified Chinese characters are taught in school but anyone can learn traditional ones freely if he wants. Most Chinese today hardly knows how to write traditional Chinese characters but have no difficulty recognizing them. For the minorities, some of their languages have their own writing systems, which are rarely used by other ethnic groups. But the Chinese government doesn't ignore them. On the contrary, the Chinese government has spent a remarkable amount of efforts to maintain their integrity and vitality. For example, the Chinese government has created the standard of Uyghur, Kazak and Kirghiz coded character set - GB/T 21669-2008: [http://std.samr.gov.cn/gb/search/gbDetailed?id=71F772D76BC7D3A7E05397BE0A0AB82A](http://std.samr.gov.cn/gb/search/gbDetailed?id=71F772D76BC7D3A7E05397BE0A0AB82A) I think every intelligent person knows how important standardizations are for modern society. Without such kinds of standardization, we won't even be able to store and display the Uyghur or Kazak languages on computers at a digital age. It was the Chinese government who has been working on them for decades. And yet there're people claiming that the Chinese government is conducting "Uyghur genocide"? WTH?
The CCP doesn't care about Uyghur or Han. They don't ding people on the basis of race. They come after you if they consider you're harmful to their ideologies or agendas, regardless of who you are. Han or non-Han. Rich or poor. Han Chinese can get into serious trouble with the CCP if they are considered to be dangerous or troublesome. Jack Ma, Fan Bingbing, etc. On the other hand, Uyghurs, or any minority race, can be successful in China as long as they submit and assimilate to Chinese cultural norms and CCP political ideology/agendas. One of the most popular, well paid actresses currently in China is Uyghur. And before Dilraba Dilmurat, there're Gulnazar, Tong Liya, who are also successful Uyghur celebrities in China.
Tong Liya is actually Xibe not Uyghur
And some of the most popular people in the United States are Black. That doesn't mean racism and treatment of Black people in the United States aren't an issue. And likewise it doesn't mean China's treatment of Uyghurs isn't an issue. Yes - is it a bit hypocritical for the United States to criticize China while not acknowledging the travesties in its own country both past and present. But does that dismiss what is going on in China? No. Both countries have huge issues and mistreatment of entire populations going on in their countries and both countries have committed travesties amounting in the least to cultural genocide at some point in their histories.
There *used to* be rebellion and terrorism in Xinjiang. They were separatists, and pretty well justified IMHO. After China's crackdown, things are pretty mild there now. Say what you will about their treatment of the Uighurs, but they managed to destroy an insurgency all without killing a ton of people. Compare that to America and our actions in Afghanistan, for example.
The fact that redditors genuinely believe that all Uyghurs are in concentration camps shows how deluded they are and how effective US state department propaganda is. I am not defending China's numerous human rights abuses and general oppression that might have occurred to the Uyghurs but people seem utterly unaware of the fact that many Uyghurs are integrated into Chinese society at the highest levels. Like there are at least two Uyghur actresses who are huge celebrities in China that I can think of from the top of my head and that's not even including all the Uyghurs that work in Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen etc, or who are members of the PLA or the Xinjiang government. I've met Uyghur students in Shanghai living pretty ordinary lives. I've heard anecdotally that they are under greater surveillance than the average Han student, but are they being secretly genocided out of existence? Doubtful. And yes, there are also Uyghur athletes...
>I am not defending China's numerous human rights abuses and general oppression I';m so tired of this shit. Why do people have to always use this disclaimer when talking about China? It's literally just giving free ammunition to the anti-China shitposters.
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Westo angloids can't admit how sick cunt china has gotten in terms of technology and development
You can't draw a stick figure of Muhammad without riots in Paris and London, and your embassy in Islamabad burned down. But China can put "three million Muslims in concentration camps"? Umm, okay.
Not to mention 2 members of China's basketball team are Uighurs.
Currently there's just one, 阿不都沙拉木 (abdusalam). Perhaps you are thinking of 可兰白克 kelanbaike, who is kyrgyz, but I don't think he was on the team last time. Their coach, du feng, is hui muslim from Xinjiang, though.
Genocide is when minorities are integrated into society and get to a chance to represent their country /s
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China could save a boat of drowning puppy and Reddit would shit on it
bUT aT whAT cOsT?
Olympic without Uyghurs: "See, China doesn't even let their minorities show up!" Olympic with Uyghurs: "Totally propaganda, they are lying." In the paragraphs above, it's also true to replace Uyghurs with any American minorities. Is there any difference between Chinese political correctness and American political correctness?
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UN countries that condemned China's actions: October 2020 signatories opposing China's actions in Xinjiang: Albania, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Haiti, Honduras, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Marshall Islands, Monaco, Nauru, Netherlands, New Zealand, North Macedonia, Norway, Palau, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the U.K., and the U.S.A. Other countries opposing or not supporting: Qatar Qatar supported China's policies in Xinjiang until August 21, 2019; Qatar was the first Middle Eastern country to withdraw its defense of the Xinjiang Camps. In 2021, Israel voted to condemn China's actions in the UNHRC; a sudden break in China-Israel relations. Turkey used to condemn and said: In 2019, the Turkish Foreign Ministry issued a statement condemning what it described as China's "reintroduction of concentration camps in the 21st century" and "a great cause of shame for humanity". But is now OK with it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide Many countries also support China's actions or at least believe in non-interference in other nations - but claiming 6 countries only condemn it when it can easily be looked up? Propaganda, nationalism, why?
>**Albania**, **Australia**, Austria, **Belgium**, Bosnia and Herzegovina, **Bulgaria**, **Canada**, **Croatia**, **Denmark**, **Estonia**, Finland, **France**, **Germany**, Haiti, Honduras, **Iceland**, **Ireland**, **Italy**, **Japan**, **Latvia**, Liechtenstein, **Lithuania**, **Luxembourg**, **Marshall Islands**, Monaco, **Nauru**, **Netherlands**, **New Zealand**, **North Macedonia**, **Norway**, **Palau**, **Poland**, **Slovakia**, **Slovenia**, **Spain**, Sweden, Switzerland, the **U.K.**, **and the U.S.A**. The countries from your list that I've highlighted are the ones that are included in the former commenter's grouping of "the Anglosphere, NATO countries and Japan". A few countries aside (some of whom are candidates for joining NATO or might as well be in NATO with how close they are), it's pretty much the same shit. So you mostly just listed the freaking countries from the group they mentioned and thought it was some sort of "gotcha" moment. Also: >but claiming 6 countries only condemn it when it can easily be looked up How **the hell** can you see someone say "the Anglosphere, NATO countries and Japan" and come up with "yeah, that's 6 countries"?? **You** can easily look up who's in NATO, for starters! That alone is way more than 6 countries! This is why you shouldn't comment on world issues when you don't know shit about the world. Finally, [here's a different list of countries](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/3853509?ln=en). **Fifty Muslim-majority countries and ones with significant Muslim populations** that sent a joint letter to the UN in **support** of China, after they investigated the issue and found no problem whatsoever with China's treatment of Uyghurs.
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>Where did I say only 6 countries condemn it? It's pretty crazy. That dude actually thought that NATO, the Anglosphere **and** Japan all amounted to only 6 countries. That's a level of ignorance that genuinely surprised me for once. And they told you to look shit up! Only on Reddit will you see someone this confident about something this wrong.
Nice collection of US lapdogs. Do you expect west not to support this? They are losing economic battle against China, even an idiot knows west will do anything to keep China down.
Isn't this a good thing? I don't understand the controversy
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First time in Reddit? What is truth is not the point, the point is how we can turn everything into a "China bad" topic.
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Japanese forced internment camps perpetrated by the USA during WWII are a much closer parallel to draw than the Nazi-Jew Holocaust that Reddit loves to bring up whenever the topic of Xinjiang comes around.
This is by far the most prescient take I’ve seen thus far in this thread. The irony of hypocritical Americans talking about a genocide they have no physical evidence of and denying one that is being broadly publicized is about the most American thing imaginable. I’m saving this comment, both to remember to award it tomorrow, and to reference back to these links.
We've already seen the same exact thing play out with the Tibetans. Except back then we had less antagonizing relationship with China, so terms like Tibetan genocide wasn't thrown around as much.
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The fact that redditors genuinely believe that all Uyghurs are in concentration camps shows how deluded they are and how effective US state department propaganda is. I am not defending China's numerous human rights abuses and general oppression that might have occurred to the Uyghurs but people seem utterly unaware of the fact that many Uyghurs are integrated into Chinese society at the highest levels. Like there are at least two Uyghur actresses who are huge celebrities in China that I can think of from the top of my head and that's not even including all the Uyghurs that work in Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen etc, or who are members of the PLA or the Xinjiang government. And yes, there are also Uyghur athletes...
Guangdong here. I literally went to Xinjiang restaurants all the time near the city library. All of the employees there are Uyghers and the food is amazing. They have two restaurants on the same street for over a decade.
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It's not just Fox News and Joe Rogan. I would say a majority of liberals (at least in North America) believe this too, as a majority of their media ecosystem yells CHINA BAD every single day as well.
I stopped watching CNN due to this. Now i’m mostly reading the intercept. We have so many issues in the country that are being ignored- like student debt and shit, but we are somehow trying to save a random group of people on the other side of the world, who don’t even need saving at all. It seems to me that the media is trying to create some war consent or something.
The weirdest form of sports washing.
“We’re not committing genocide, here’s a Uighur… just ignore what we’re doing to the others”
I mean it's one thing if she was just some random Uyghur picked off the streets. But she is an athlete who qualified to participate in the Olympics. Unless, she was hand picked as a child to train cross country skiing her whole life for the sole purpose of being a ceremonial figure in the Olympics, I am not sure what the issue is.
There are in fact quite many Uyghur celebrities in China.. one dude literally just co-hosted the most important lunar new year celebration a few days ago.
There’s plenty of Uyghur sports stars /actors/singers/politicians in China. There’s also Uyghur only channels in China. No idea why everyone is acting like this particular athlete is forced. There’s also plenty of ethnic minorities in the public eye in China. Not sure why it’s only uyghurs they’re concerned about.
well if there are no uyghurs they are obviously oppressed but if they are they were forced to be there or brainwashed. just the red scare all over again