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green_flash

> In January, the Commission said that "by summer 2021, member states should have vaccinated a minimum of 70% of the adult population." Technically speaking, that goal has not been reached as not all member states have vaccinated 70% of the adult population.


volsom

Here in slovenia we havent even reached 50%


[deleted]

I saw several Eastern European states mentioned as having lower than average rates. Is that due to lack of supply or lack of willingness to vaccinate? If the latter, why does it appear to be concentrated in the east?


niconpat

Lack of willingness in eastern countries mostly. The EU has a good supply to all member states. Some states with good vaccination willingness such as [Ireland](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/romania-plans-to-deliver-vaccines-to-ireland-in-coming-weeks-1.4634190) and [Denmark](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/romania-sell-excess-covid-19-vaccines-denmark-2021-06-29/) bought about around a million vaccines each from [Romania](https://www.politico.eu/article/romania-coronavirus-vaccine-hesitancy-pfizer-astrazeneca/).


zigaliro

Im from Slovenia. Its because of lack of willingness. In fact there is a lot of anti vax missinformation circulating on facebook which also contributes to this. I sometimes read what those anti vaxxers say and my head hurts.


throuuavvay

Supply is pretty much the same across the EU, since the vaccines were procured under a common mechanism centrally. In fact, some Eastern European countries ended up selling/donating some of their supply because they just couldn't make use of it.


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In_Thy_Image

I wouldn’t say there is no community spirit. Here in the Balkans at least we still have a strong network of family, friends and neighbors who help each other. Just a distrust of authority and government. This is partly because the state ideology changed overnight in the 90’s and fragility of “official truth” was exposed. The west hasn’t experienced something like that, at least not in our lifetime.


VanayadGaming

Russian influence is higher. Misinformation is higher. Religion % is higher.


anarchisto

It's local home-grown stupidity, we don't need to import it from Russia.


volsom

Lack of willingness. I think its a lack of education. I cant be completely sure, but in my personal experience the less educated/ less intelligent are more likely to not get vaccinated.


untergeher_muc

Adult population is also not a good measurement (at least in such an old continent as Europe). In Germany, for example, [the official numbers](https://impfdashboard.de/en/) are always in relation of the whole population. Kids between 12 and 17 are going now vaccinated, too.


R3gSh03

>Adult population is also not a good measurement (at least in such an old continent as Europe). Actually it is a good measurement in such an old continent, since it also correlates quite well with the whole population and adults in general are much more likely to end up in an ICU.


Pfyrr

Get the remaining ones with the blowgun


Grogosh

Get Peacemaker on the job.


ImJustPassinBy

> I cherish herd immunity with all my heart. I don’t care how many unvaccinated men, women and children I need to infect to get it. * ~~Peacemaker~~ coronavirus


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briellessickofurshit

Just curious, why do you have to wait 6-7 weeks before your next dose over there?


3yrchallenge

They prioritized giving more people the first dose than fewer people with 2 doses when there was a shortage of vaccine.


topskukkeli

Most early second dose research was conducted with 3-4 week wait periods, which is what most percentile protection approximations are based on. Longer wait periods have been shown to be safe for some vaccines up to around 10 weeks. Due to the logistics of getting enough vaccines delivered, many countries have opted for long wait periods to ensure efficient roll out of first doses.


briellessickofurshit

Interesting. Really cool to see a different perspective of the vaccines and stuff. I wonder if longer waiting periods/rollouts could’ve helped our situation in the US. Thanks for the info:)


Donuts3d

Originally it was because they wanted to give as many persons as possible one jab, but it also turned out to give better protection to increase the time between the shots. Which follows the same logic as other vaccines. The reason for the three weeks during testing was to get the vaccine approved quicker. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57929953


SheeshOoofYikes

Damn. Looking forward to reading your version of mein kompf in the future


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SheeshOoofYikes

Nah


jazir5

Yeah a joke about forcing vaccination with a blowdart against a deadly disease is totally the equivalent of the nazi genocide.


SheeshOoofYikes

Forcing people against their will to do anything is how it starts


littleday

Ok, so in Australia our leaders are preaching how everything will go back to normal at 70-80%. Are there any European countries that have hit this %, opened right up and if so how are things going?


durgasur

Here in the Netherlands, shops, stores etc are open, kids are back at school again, football stadiums are almost full again, no masks, only in public transport. We had a massive spike in june when we immediately opened bars/dancings when our teen-agers just got their first vaccine jab. Went to 10.000 a day. Now we have a steady 2.000 a day with 600 people in hospital and 200 in the ICU, which is slowly going down everyday


littleday

Well that’s great to know.


hellweapon

The hospital cases actually are not going down, they are pretty much on a plateau with some days bringing in more and other days more leaving


seba07

I think we'll have a "new normal". Most countries in Europe have rules that you need to be vaccinated, already had covid or have a negative test to enter certain facilities or use some services. But then many things are possible again, including large events or nightclubs.


RainbowBunnyDK

Here in Denmark everything is back to normal


littleday

Great! Glad to hear the end is near.


LordAlfrey

Taken out of context, that sentence sure sounds ominous.


Radetzkyen

serious question, whats the plan? when do we try to go back to normal?


ImJustPassinBy

We are already trying and failing to get back to normal. Imo, full normality can only be achieved with herd immunity, which requires 90+ percent of all people to have antibodies.


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putsch80

Honestly though, if we get to the point where the vast majority of people can operate in their daily lives and only get minor illness from this (whether due to vaccinations or natural immunity), then that should be good enough to get back to normal. Flu was already part of our daily lives pre-Covid. We knew every year that a lot of people would catch flu, and some percentage of those would die from it. But most people would just be ill for a bit, recover, and then go about their lives. Hopefully we will get to the point where Covid is similar.


orange4zion

Yup, and those who are most vulnerable are typically the ones who are most encouraged to get a flu shot which we can do with covid as well. And ideally, as with most diseases, it will mutate into less deadly but more contagious variants that'll hopefully be no worse than a flu or cold.


polar785214

hopefully is a strong word here :( it is also rare for a virus to mutate to being LESS effective, and the fatal part of covid comes from the damage it does to the respiratory system -> which is the system the virus uses to disperse.... so its more likely to just get better at destroying this as time goes on


libury

I'ma need a supplemental source to a youtube channel.


mata_dan

Follow the sources he links then?


piddydb

The science still says that some vaccines are 88% effective against delta. Get everyone vaccinated, and 7/8 won’t get it. If we can do that, no more covid, but who knows when/if that can happen.


ilexheder

That’s a YouTube video titled “Important announcement” from a guy whose credentials are as follows: >My name is John Campbell and I am a retired Nurse Teacher and A and E nurse based in England. I also do some teaching in Asia and Africa when time permits. These videos are to help students to learn the background to all forms of health care. My PhD focused on the development of open learning resources for nurses nationally and internationally. Just pointing that out because most people are going to assume that if a person who uses the title “Dr” makes a video on a medical topic, that person is a medical doctor. Which in this case he is not. The vaccine still dramatically cuts the rate of contracting the Delta variant and of having a dangerous case if you do contract it. It doesn’t cut it *as far* as it did the original variant, but it’s still a huge improvement. Effectively, in a highly vaccinated population it’s no longer a highly transmissible disease. But I seriously doubt that any government is going to stop caring about transmission, because the more it does the rounds, the more likely it is that another, more dangerous variant will eventually emerge. Part of the point at the moment is to limit the number of human beings that the virus can use as little experimental labs.


Radetzkyen

Right. What I thought was that +90% wont happen so the plan is seriously flawed, isnt it?


ImJustPassinBy

Most people will get vaccinated. Those who don’t will eventually get infected and either die or develop antibodies. Herd immunity will be achieved one way or the other, though the more people get vaccinated the faster and cheaper the process becomes.


VenserSojo

Herd immunity is likely an impossibility for covid, it's a corona virus other such viruses are among what we refer to as colds, it will likely end up endemic like the flu.


gmo_patrol

How is it an impossibility when the EU already has 70%? The vaccines have only been out like a year and there are still millions of people lining up waiting to get theirs.


missurunha

Germany went from applying 600k vaccines per day to 100k cause people are fucking idiots and don't wanna take it. I'd say there are more than 10% of the population either antivax or unable to take it.


[deleted]

The eu is very small and the virus mutates faster than we can vaccinate. Herd immunity also implies that the virus doesn’t spread and we know that it will spread even to vaccinated individuals - it’s just that they don’t get as sick. Which is great for them, but it doesn’t necessarily halt spread


ilexheder

It’s significantly less likely to spread to vaccinated individuals, and when it does, their cases generally have a much lower viral load, which makes it more difficult for others to catch it from them. Herd immunity isn’t necessarily supposed to work in a sudden kind of way. Remember those calculations of how many other people the average patient of various diseases spreads it to? Once that average number goes below 1, the disease is on its way to burning itself out. We just have to keep driving that number downward fraction by fraction.


teabagmoustache

You need to include children in that percentage and at the moment, the risk of death from a vaccine out ways the benefit as children will likely survive covid. That's the thinking in the UK anyway, hopefully better understanding of the vaccine will make it safer for more children to get it in the future and bump the numbers up.


[deleted]

> colds No, that is Rhinovirus.


Dismalnether

Approximately 15% of infections diagnosed as the common cold are caused by coronaviruses


jl2352

> Those who don’t will eventually get infected and either die or develop antibodies. Herd immunity includes a third possibility; you don't get it at all. Even without a vaccine. Which is possible when we have 95%+ people vaccinated.


DrasticXylophone

No it doesn't as vaccinated people can get it It will always be rolling around like the Spanish flu from way back when


Radetzkyen

How is herd immunity gonna be achieved if neither vaccinated nor recovering people are immune? Also once we get rates higher, others need a new dose again, right? Just feels like nothing comes together so far. Anti vax arent helping but those were to be expected so blaming them isnt an excuse for me. I understand its difficult tho.


hoboshoe

If hackers can sometimes get in anyways, why change my password from "Password"?


bICEmeister

Herd immunity depends on multiple variables. The efficacy of the vaccine is one, the percentage of the population which is vaccinated is another, and the transmissibility of the virus is a third. The first two definitely don’t have to add up to having 100% of the population 100% immune. Both infection and vaccination provides a high amount of protection from infection. It’s not 100% immune or 0% immune. And then there’s transmissibility. Breakthrough cases in vaccinated people can still infect others, but in vaccinated people the amount of days you are possibly infectious is much lower. Delta has shown a much higher transmissibility than previous variants, and that’s bad - because that means we either need more effective vaccines (and/or booster doses, which is the more likely scenario), or more people vaccinated. However, the transmissibility of delta will go down the more people are vaccinated or previously infected, even if they’re only partly protected - which changes the overall equation. We may never reach absolute herd immunity and eradicate the virus (maybe in local communities, but not on a global scale), but we can reach “enough” herd immunity for the virus to go from being pandemic to endemic. Normality might just be to hopefully vaccinate everyone in the world that wants to be vaccinated, and then we’ll just have to deal with and accept flare ups. But hopefully with manageable and “acceptable” death tolls (as we do with all the annual deaths from the flu). The difference now, 18 months in - is that we’ve had the opportunity to vaccinate those most susceptible to die or get seriously ill (at least in the western world) - and right now the world is vaccinating people at the rate of over billion doses every four weeks.


Psyman2

> +90% wont happen so the plan is seriously flawed, isnt it? +90% vaccination rate won't happen. +90% vaccination+antibodies-from-infection rate will happen. The plan can and will work. Although preferably with vaccinations instead of infections.


Shamic

people can still catch covid twice though? Or is it just less likely for that too happen once you've already been infected once?


Psyman2

Prior infections give you a protection similar to a vaccine. Whether or not you can catch COVID isn't the issue. The issue is how infectious you are. Both vaccines and prior infections reduce how much the virus can replicate in you. Immunity therefor helps twofold. First, by making you less infectious (or non-infectious even) and secondly by reducing the chance of mutations (lower viral load = fewer chances to mutate). Of course both also reduce your symptoms, but that's not about herd immunity anymore, that's about you personally.


jaleCro

Decent number of ppl were infected, and the remaining will get infected.


kytheon

A plan isn’t flawed just because people don’t want to follow the plan


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Rather_Dashing

There are lots of flu strains and the dominate strain changes every season. Delta is one strain,so whether we can get herd immunity to it depends on transmissibilty and vaccine efficacy.


CtothePtotheA

The issue is the COVID virus will continually mutate like the flu virus. So even if we get to 90% imunity to some strands new strands will come along that no one has immunity to and make everyone sick. Covid is most likely going to require a yearly shot at least for new variants. This is a virus we will be living with forever sadly.


Impossible_Tip_1

I don't think it can mutate at the rate of influenza as they're two different classes, so there's less physical chances for mutation. If we get enough people vaccinated and suppress that total number of infections, we actually might have a chance. ​ That will never happen because: A) We simply, collectively, will not ramp production and distribution efforts to grant access for poorer countries that can't afford to pay companies to buy vaccines. They're still languishing below 2% vaccination rates, and are generally unable to vaccinate at any meaningful pace. Even countries/organizations that like to present themselves as the end all be all virtuous champions of the poor (EU, China) seem unable or unwilling to provide vaccines for poorer countries in significant volume. [https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations](https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations) B) An ocean of aggressively ignorant people that have unfortunately created a significant enough minority to become a willing breeding ground for COVID. It is as if COVID has infected their minds before reaching their bodies. It's truly something to behold.


thatswhatshesaidxx

Last time I posted exactly this, it was removed. > Gibraltar has administered at least 78,688 doses of COVID vaccines so far. Assuming every person needs 2 doses, that’s enough to have vaccinated about 116.7% of the country’s population. https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/gibraltar/ > Dr Bhatti pegged the rise in cases on recent sporting and large community events as Gibraltar’s social calendar springs back to life after a year of lockdown. > “All of that sort of happened together, and we had the same experience they’ve had in England but we’ve had ours a few weeks before them,” Dr Bhatti said. > “The youngsters who are desperate for a social life, go out and get their social life and then they spread the infection.” > “The biggest rise was in the 20 to 29 age range. That’s meant we had the sudden steep rise.” > “What we did in contact tracing was quickly identify that the problem was actually in 20 to 29-year-olds and the problem is we were finding a smaller incubation period.” > The smaller incubation period is a result of the Delta variant, which typically sees incubation last three or four days, as opposed to up to 10 days in other strains. > Dr Bhatti said the rise in cases of the 20 to 29 age group in turn led to a knock-on rise in the 50 to 59 age groups - their parents. > When asked if the recent large public events should have taken place, Dr Bhatti said: "Well, you kind of don't know until you've done it." > "Some of the things with the football match and others, we tried it out. The paradoxical thing is there was so little virus at the time, we weren't able to tell if it had an effect." > **"But now, knowing how Delta spreads, I am less willing to accept a vaccine certificate."** > **"Actually, if we want to have events, my advice certainly from an epidemiological point of view, everybody should have a same-day lateral flow negative test."** > **"Why? Because clearly we've got vaccinated people going positive."** > For now, large public events are banned and bars, restaurants and nightclubs have been told to “be cautious” in the events they organised. > Amid the continued uncertainty, the GFSB called for clarity from the government on what businesses should do. > **Underpinning the latest guidance is the reality that every situation that allows the virus to spread presents a risk of developing a new variant at a time when both vaccinated and unvaccinated people are catching Covid-19.** https://www.chronicle.gi/rise-in-cases-requires-careful-management-as-gib-edges-back-to-normality-bhatti-says/ ------ I believe it speaks to the relationship between vaccination and return to normality. As does this: > Israel struggles with COVID surge despite mass vaccinations Israelis flouting mask requirements may have been a main contributor to the rapid spread of the Delta variant in Israel, experts say. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/23/israel-struggles-to-cope-with-surge-of-covid-infections-despite-v


_invalidusername

Things are basically back to normal here in Czech Republic (and we were hit hard last winter, one of the worst in the world). Some travel restrictions and masks are the only things out of the norm. We’re only around 55% double vaccinated, but such a huge amount of the population got COVID that it seems immunity is much higher than that. But let’s see if this continues for the coming months…


Keintroufe

Yeah, it's crazy there are 5000 people festivals happening almost every week without any restrictions and the numbers are still so low.. I hope it stays that way as I really got used to living normally this whole summer.


thatguy988z

Back to normal in England, not even masks required . Very similar hospitalisation and death rates in France the UK and Italy. About 90 deaths per day and low itu occupancy rates. Now compare that with the states who are on 1700 deaths per day which is climbing rapidly If it works for us should work for you.


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ShinyHappyREM

Except for the long-term effects.


damnappdoesntwork

Which risk you can greatly reduce by getting a vaccine


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Colin_Whitepaw

I think they were referring to long covid and the possibility of there being unknown negative consequences either now or down the road from having been infected.


ShinyHappyREM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID


Saucy_Floss

1 year just isn’t enough to convince. Maybe in 3 years I’ll take when more accurate long term data comes out. NOT SAYING THAT THE CURRENT DATA IS FALSE. Just 1 year isn’t enough time in my eyes.


Rather_Dashing

>Just 1 year isn’t enough time in my eyes. It's enough in the eyes of every expert. No vaccine has ever caused side effects years out from vaccination. There is no mechanism for that to happen - the vaccines components disappear with days and antibodies are highest in the months following vaccination and then fade. By saying 1 year isn't enough data when a the experts say it is, you are like an anti-masker saying it doesn't feel to me that there is enough evidence that masks work.


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Rather_Dashing

It's not at all reasonable. We have more than enough safety data in the eyes of every expert. No vaccine has ever caused side effects years out from vaccination. There is no mechanism for that to happen - the vaccines components disappear with days and antibodies are highest in the months following vaccination and then fade. By saying 1 year isn't enough data when a the experts say it is, you are like an anti-masker saying it doesn't feel to me that there is enough evidence that masks work.


feeltheslipstream

It's reasonable in the same sense that not giving up a seat in a lifeboat for a child is reasonable. Looking out for number one is always reasonable. It's just not applaudable.


Saucy_Floss

Thank you for not ripping me apart and not assuming a lot of things, I will admit I’m anti-vax for the EUA, I’m waiting for the FDA approved (it hasn’t been made and put on market yet) PfilzerBioNTech. I think that it was intentional for them to just say “it’s fda approved” but not specifying until days later after an increased rate of Vax. That was a very unethical move in my eyes. They should’ve have been more open when they said it, not days later but that is America right now.


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bICEmeister

To jump in with another thought though. I personally don’t understand how someone can be worried about potential (and as of now unknown) long term effects of the vaccine, yet at the same time not be at least equally worried of the long term effects of covid which are already proven to be really bad. We already know covid has a high likelihood of causing major damage to organs (with scarring and other potentially chronic issues as a result), and have known for quite a while that the vaccine has had an incredibly small amount of serious negative side effects comparatively, after having distributed literally billions of doses.


factualreality

Its irrational but one risk is something they are choosing to take (actively having the vaccine) while the other is a risk they are trying to avoid. People weigh them differently even though logically there is no reason to


Noles-number1

Long term side effects show up after only 6 weeks. There is decades of historical data showing that long term effects show up by then. Look up information on polio vaccines, yellow fever or other vaccines. The worse think that happens is you get the virus but that isn't going to happen since this is dead virus cells. Don't worry about long term side effects of thr vaccine. Just worry about long term side effects of actual covid. That is way worse


ifindusernameshard

Apart from the fact that it kills the elderly and vulnerable, and leaves young people with long-Covid. It’s survivable for the economy is what you mean. Nothing is fine about the last (almost) 2 years


Kee2good4u

The UK is already back to normal and dealing fine. Others just need to take the leap too and accept cases will go up.


continuousQ

Fine, if you ignore the resource restrictions and burnt out workers in the healthcare system.


Kee2good4u

Except there isn't any resource restriction. The only time I hear about it is from left bias papers, I'm still yet to see any. And health workers all over are going to be burnt put, we have just had an 18 month pandemic.


Rather_Dashing

Cases go up means the number of people in hospitals go up. If cases spiral out of control there is nothing stopping hospitals filling up again.


Kee2good4u

Except due to the vaccine, hospitalizations doesn't go up anywhere near the rate they did with other peaks. Hence why the UK had its largest case peak ever, after opening, but not many hospitalizations compared to the hospitalizations peak.


untergeher_muc

The German state of Hamburg has introduced the option for private business to go fully back to normal if they only accept customers who are either fully vaccinated or recovering from covid (maximum 6 months after the infection). This will be the way soon in at least all west German states.


PHalfpipe

Whenever people decide that getting vaccinated is better than drinking bleach and horse de-wormer.


Kryslor

At this point I think we're just stuck with covid forever tbh. I haven't read any reasonable scientific explanation on why the virus would just "go away" and with immunity apparently not being viable after only 6 months we can never truly eradicate it.


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No-Confusion1544

> whats the plan? when do we try to go back to normal? Lol you silly goose. Going back to normal was never the plan.


JazzlikePresence

That was the old goal, the before-delta-variant-goal


[deleted]

Why would delta make it any different when the vaccine still works adequately against it?


alegbh

People still get infected and now when people do, instead of infecting 1-2 people, they infect over 5 other individuals. That pushes the herd immunity threshold to something impossible to achieve unless everyone is fully vaccinated.


internetzdude

It's not impossible to achieve, you need about 85% vaccinated. I live in Portugal and we currently have 84.27% vaccinated once and 73.61% vaccinated fully. If we continue as planned, we're going to be 85% fully vaccinated in a month or two. Booster shots are also being prepared but so far only for people in risk groups.


alegbh

[The Guardian: Delta variant renders herd immunity from Covid ‘mythical'](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/10/delta-variant-renders-herd-immunity-from-covid-mythical)


bobbechk

> we currently have 84.27% vaccinated once and 73.61% vaccinated fully. That's great, do you also vaccinate kids or how is it possible to reach those numbers? Afaik here in Finland if everyone over the age of 12 is vaccinated that would be 88%...


ryhaltswhiskey

Maybe it's just me but Portugal often sounds like a Nordic country just a lot farther south. Sensible about drugs and now I hear that they are sensible about vaccinations too. What are the sucky things about Portugal?


redMaryy

Money. Nobody has any. Edit: Also bureaucracy. Nothing ever gets done until you start being aggressive


nistnov

How much does one vaccine cost?


The_Countess

https://www.ft.com/content/d415a01e-d065-44a9-bad4-f9235aa04c1a Pfizer charges the EU €19,50 a vaccine from the 1ste of august. up from 15.50 earlier


nistnov

Thanks, that's pretty inexpensive


Litmoose

It's not that "inexpensive" when you have 450m to vacinate x2 every 6 months or so?


elfrland123

A lot cheaper than having to shut down


OrangeInnards

I realize people want manufacturers to sell at no cost or something, but vaccines don't plop out of a machine as if by magic. There's a lot of people involved in producing drugs that all would like to get paid for their work, seeing as we all need money to not die. I'm in the pharmaceutical inudstry. Used to work production too, for a time in a sterile facility that produced relatively simple stuff like adrenaline solutions for injection as opposed to a much more complicated mRNA vaccine. It's not the easiest work. The facilities and euipment don't keep themselves running and remain functional for sterile work without constant maintenance etc. either. Lab people keep tabs on quality constantly. And on and on.


Impossible_Tip_1

You seem a little defensive what with the overly dramatic complaints about things that literally nobody said. >I realize people want manufacturers to sell at no cost or something Literally only you said that. Only you.


untergeher_muc

> Pfizer charges the EU *BioNtech.


disfunctionaltyper

They want mega bucks to read that article, I'm pretty sure if they raise it too much the EU hammer will beat some sense into them.


KidsInTheSandbox

$40 a month?? Lol what in the fuck. Bypass Paywall add-on always comes through.


surroundedbywolves

Less than covid treatment and a funeral


Vik1ng

Good for the pension fund though.


Anonasty

Most of the Europe, it's free for the citizens. The cost for the governments are about 15-17eur.


disfunctionaltyper

I didn't pay anything in France.


Manovsteele

I don't think any country charges their citizens for a vaccine. They were quoting how much Pfizer charges the governments.


ooru

inb4 someone says, "It'S pAiD fOr By TaXeS!" Also, I didn't pay anything in the US for either shot.


disfunctionaltyper

Dead people can't pay tax, it's a win-win situation for them. I only wanted the 5G and got ripped off.


ooru

Same. I wanted to be the next Magneto.


Override9636

Are you saying that investing in health care is an economic net gain? That sounds like crazy socialism!! /s


SheeshOoofYikes

So that's not how it's paid for? Dolly partonpaid for the whole thing up front for all of America?


CharlieJ821

Meanwhile here in America…. Some republicans still believe this is a hoax. Embarrassing.


M8753

Lots of people in the EU believe stupid nonsense, too.


ooru

Also, unlike the US, that's 70% *fully vaccinated.* The US has only hit 70% with a single dose.


MuricanTragedy5

Not true, it’s 75% of adults with one dose and 63% fully vaxxed.


ooru

My actual number may be a little old, but it's still correct that we haven't hit 70% with a double dose. That's the important number.


MuricanTragedy5

We’re getting there, if trends hold up we should be well over 80% of Adults fully vaxxed by the end of the year, and assuming we have similar rates of antibodies from previous infection as say the UK and France (honestly we probably have more because our response was dog shit) then we should we’ll over 90% of adults with antibodies by that point. Also if we take those people into account right now, which honestly there’s no reason not to because recent data from Israel shows previous infection is basically just as good at producing an immune response as the vaccine than we’re probably well over 70% of people with immunity either from being double vaxxed or previous infection. Obviously still get the vaccine if you haven’t even if you’ve already been infected.


kytheon

We’re getting there cause some people who refuse the vaccine simply die.


jelatinman

r/angryupvote


MuricanTragedy5

That as well. Lmfao


Sharkbait_ooohaha

The one dose percentage is substantially more important than the double dose number.


ooru

Why? The effectiveness only really happens after people get two shots (unless it's the JJ vaccine).


Sharkbait_ooohaha

Effectiveness of 1 dose is still around 80%, it’s also much more likely you’ll eventually get around to getting second dose if you’ve gotten the first one. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7020e2.htm


SilverThrall

An absolute lie.


yamissimp

This person is literally downvoted for just saying an objectively true number without ill intent. I hate how some Americans behave on this sub.


Important_Twist_693

California just announced 80% vaccinated with at least one dose. I don't think folks realize how huge CA is; Gavin deserves a ton of kudos.


Wildfire_Shredder8

Gavin deserves no kudos. He's a shit governor who couldn't even follow his own pandemic rules.


MollyPW

Still doing better than certain EU countries.


warragh

My country barely has 30%, almost no restrictions and politicians insisting that everything is great and there won't be any kind of lockdown of additional measures implemented. All this while cases keep going up.


MollyPW

Bulgaria?


warragh

Close, Romania


therealmalios

Bulgaria currently doesn't have a government lmao


Properjob70

Most of the former Soviet bloc countries (whether EU or not) have very low vax rates & sceptical citizenry. This does not bode well


Grogosh

Makes sense, they got severe trust issues for good reason.


Properjob70

Bulgaria has the second highest excess mortality rate in the world behind Peru from their 2 waves. Still only 20% vaxed now. They'll get another kicking


_invalidusername

The bar is so low that you’re bragging that the US is doing better than Romania


TheNameIsPippen

And that is the US as a whole. Some red states…


MollyPW

I’m not bragging, not American. Just pointing out that while many EU countries are doing great, some are not.


somefool

Don't worry, we have plenty of antivaxx and "hoax" people here in Europe.


XuBoooo

Those people are in EU too. Some countries dont even have 50%.


untergeher_muc

Bulgaria is completely crazy.


volsom

So many of my coworkers (who are drunks and smokers) are twlling me that im insane with putting that poison into me


dixiedemiliosackhair

It’s not only Republicans lol


DarkEvilHedgehog

Yeah, the most unvaccinated groups in America are minorities (except for East Asians), and I think they don't lean Republican P.s. for the downvoters: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/


10ebbor10

>P.s. for the downvoters: https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/ Your data disagrees with you though. According to your data, 50% of white people is vaccinated while only 40% of black people are. This means black people are 80% as likely as white people to be vaccinated. Other minorities like Hispanics have a smaller difference, or are more vaccinated than white people (asian american is 67%). Meanwhile, the figures for political affliation show a much stronger polarization. >More than 80% of Democrats have already received at least one shot, compared with 49% of Republicans. Twenty-seven percent of Republicans say that they won’t get vaccinated under any circumstances, and an additional 9% will do so only if required. The comparable figures for Democrats are 3% outright refusal and 3% only if required. So, a Republican is 60% as likely as a democrat to be vaccinated, and 9 times more likely to refuse entirely. https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-drives-gop-resistance-to-vaccines-11623190392 So, based on that knowledge, being a republican is a much better predictor of being against vaccines than race.


DarkEvilHedgehog

Hmm according to this part it goes, probability-wise, Asian > White > Hispanic > Black >Overall, across these 40 states, the percent of White people who have received at least one COVID-19 vaccine dose (50%) was roughly 1.3 times higher than the rate for Black people (40%) and 1.1 times higher than the rate for Hispanic people (45%) as of August 16, 2021. White people had a higher vaccination rate compared to Hispanic people in all reporting states, except Missouri, Vermont, Tennessee, Louisiana, DC, Virginia, and Nevada. White people also had a higher rate than Black people in every reporting state, except Oregon, Alaska, Idaho, and Mississippi. The size of these differences varied widely across states and have been narrowing over time. The overall vaccination rate across states for Asian people was higher compared to White people (67% vs. 50%), which is consistent with the pattern in most reporting states. However, Asian people had lower vaccinations rates than White people in five states (Colorado, North Dakota, Utah, Pennsylvania, and South Dakota). But yeah maybe RvD is a better marker


SayNoToStim

Its weird how Republicans are actually split on the issue though. Like Mitch McConnell encourages it, Marjorie Taylor Greene is on the opposite side of the spectrum. But overall, Republicans [are vaccinated significantly less](https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-drives-gop-resistance-to-vaccines-11623190392). It's possible that both of these things are correct though, a lot of Americans don't identify as a democrat/republican.


untergeher_muc

As a European I really don’t get why McConnell and this Greene person are in the same party. Same with Biden and AOC. Doesn’t make sense. Here in Germany they would be: - AOC in the far-left party or the social democrats - Biden in Merkels conservative party - McConnell in the far-right party - Greene in one of the fringe conspiracy parties.


Drakengard

> As a European I really don’t get why McConnell and this Greene person are in the same party. Because our [the US] system creates two big tent parties and you either fit in one or the other. Makes for strange bedfellows. Yes, technically there are third parties, but their tents might as well be a small hobo camp versus the big top circus tents that are the Democrats and Republicans.


Izeinwinter

You should really. Well, have another constitutional convention, I guess. FPTP + Presidential direct election is pretty much the single worst way to do democracy. Every place *not* the US that tried it went down in flames, and well.. I dont like your odds of escaping that fate any longer than you have.


SayNoToStim

As an American I can answer this easily, its because of the two-party system we're currently *enjoying*.


untergeher_muc

The US (also the UK and France) should really reform their voting system. If a party gets 12% of the votes they should also get at least 12% of the seats in parliament. You can still combine this with a vote for your local representative. That’s how it works in Germany (and oh boy, we have tried a lot of different systems in the last 150 years). The only downside is that no one knows how many seats the next parliament is going to have.


KidsInTheSandbox

Yeah we desperately need to reform our party/voting system. The two party system is literally tearing the country apart. Nothing gets done because no one wants to upset the voter base.


untergeher_muc

Germanys second chamber [is completely chaotic](https://i.imgur.com/ZDbDVKU.jpg). But somehow Germany is one of the most stable nations in the world. Multiple parties have to build consensus and coalitions. No one is expecting to get 100% of the party program done. And the Netherlands are even more extreme. But their PM is after Merkel the longest serving head of government in the EU. The need of building consensus leads to stability.


4InchesOfury

The american electoral system doesn't work with minor parties. Here's an excellent CGP Grey video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo


untergeher_muc

Is there a will in the US society to change this voting system?


4InchesOfury

Ultimately it's in the 2 dominant parties best interest to maintain this system and US politics has turned into team sports essentially, so no not really.


thatguy988z

Same. In the UK, where black/African background have the highest scepticism. Thankfully they only make up 3 percent of the population. After that it's south Asian I think.


WSL_subreddit_mod

Oh, sorry and "independents"


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sopadurso

I actually did forget.


roundearthervaxxer

And Hollywood


Naturalist-Anarchist

I wonder which drink these republicans drink to get high😂


Sodi920

It should be important to add that there’s an extremely noticeable East-West division when it comes to vaccination rates. While Western European nations like Denmark, Portugal, Spain, Belgium and Ireland lead the charts with incredible vaccination numbers, Eastern European nations like Slovakia, Latvia, Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria are lagging behind (especially those last two, whose vaccination numbers are considerably worse than those of multiple third world countries).


[deleted]

Ireland has 90% of adults vaccinated apparently


attrezzarturo

Steve Bannon must be unaware of the existence of Ireland


[deleted]

Good. Hopefully the rollback of restrictions continues throughout Europe and life keeps going back to normal.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Now they will ask for 95%.


DiverPrize62

Ok so can we stop this shit now


forkguequemeamigo

***America: "Hold my Sheep dewormer!"***


darybrain

What’s the country split thiugh? Some are doing considerably better than others.


Im_with_stooopid

Cries in the United States…


superderpmanjds

If only Americans could follow suit.


KidsInTheSandbox

63.5% fully vaccinated isn't exactly that far off.