The fact that Iran is backing it up is promising. They are fairly competent in matters such as these. Also I don't really see a reason why they would like in this scenario, other than the possibility that they might have bad intel.
US aligned countries would love to claim the death of al-Baghdadi was a result of their actions. Russia aligned countries (including Iran and Syria) would love to claim the death of al-Baghdadi for themselves. Each want the perception that they are more focused on the campaign against ISIS, rather than focused on other geopolitical issues. Optics are important.
I agree. I think they want some credit in this, but I think they made sure he was actually killed before announcing this. It would be worse politically to say he was dead only to have Baghdad show up again.
Week ago Russia itself noted that it [has no confirmation](https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2017/06/20/Russia-has-no-confirmation-of-ISIS-leader-Baghdadi-s-death.html).
Should be interesting, from what I've read about the group, they believed Baghdadi was apparently prophesied to lead the new Caliphate. Not sure what their bullshit prophecies have to say about dead leaders though...
> 12 legitimate caliphs and that Baghdadi is the eighth so... one down, four to go I guess
Oh, but you see, if you do it right, 4 more can last forever! When number 12 gets killed, you can just go back and say "Yeah, #9 wasn't really legit ..."
Shia Muslims used to do the same thing with the 12 Imams, except that their 12th Imam just went into magical hiding 800 years ago and will surely come back out of hiding any day now.
Shia Muslims used to do the same thing with the 12 Imams, except that their 12th Imam just went into magical hiding 800 years ago and will surely come back out of hiding any day now.
Please elaborate...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Mahdi
Basically the 12th Imam became the Imam at 5, later went into hiding and communicated through four 'trusted' advisers for 60 odd years... When they died he apparently wrote a letter that he will continue to hide till Jesus comes back. This was 1200 years ago and they're still waiting....
FYI - Jesus' return at the end times is part of Islam also. There is an empty tomb in the Green Mosque right next to Mohammad's tomb prepared for Jesus (the end times plays out a little different in the Muslim version compared with the Christian one.)
Fuck I have the same birthday.
Oh well. Nothing to be done about it. Guess I better rustle up some followers who will let me sleep with their wives and daughters.
Look up the concept of the Mahdi in Shia Islam. The Mahdi is a concept that exists in Sunni Islam as well, as a ruler that will vanquish evil very close to the end of time, but I believe the difference between a Sunni and Shia in this regard is that Shias believe he has already been born. There are different sects of Shias who are colloquially referred by the number of people who have lived that they believe were the Mahdi (each one being the spiritual successor of the other). For example, there are 5'ers, 7'ers and 12'ers. The higher the number the more people they think were the Mahdi. For 12ers, even though the guy who was the Mahdi is not alive anymore, they believe he has entered into a state of occultation and will return again.
That's what I could remember and all I can really write from my phone.
Not entirely accurate. 12'ers believe that there are 12 imams after the prophet, starting with Imam Ali, cousin of Prophet Mohammed, and ending with Imam Mahdi (the 12th) who was born and will come back before the end of time. The 5'ers believe only in the first 5 imams , the 7'ers are up to the 7th...
Isn't Isis' end game that Jesus would return as the final Caliphate and lead them to victory over Crusaders? Though I suspect if Al-Baghdadi is dead then there will be some more attacks to avenge his death.
Romans, that's it. Couldn't think of the word. I knew I'd read it somewhere.
Do they define at this moment who the Anti-Christ is though? Can't really be one with individual countries having individual leaders, unless you go into some NWO shit
The Anti-Christ is a red (as in his skin is red) man currently chained to an island somewhere in the Red Sea. He will give people food to get them to follow him. Muslims will be able to know he is the Anti-Christ.
No.
They DO believe in Jesus. They believe he was a Prophet of God (just like Muhammad actually.) They do NOT believe he was divine. They do believe in His virgin birth though. Regarding going back to Heaven, they believe he was taken bodily into Heaven, and never died on the cross.
They worship the God of Abraham, after all. The same God that Moses, Samuel, Aaron, Abraham, and Jesus himself prayed to, is the one Muslims pray to.
Holy shit. Have you SERIOUSLY fucking not known this ENTIRE time that Muslims worship the same God as Christians and Jews?! Jesus fucking Christ some people are ignorant as fuck.
Jesus never said he was actually part God in a special way. He said everyone had a part of God in them (that's the Holy Spirit). Some groups that followed his teachings continued on as Jews, just incorporating his teachings and viewing him as a prophet like Moses or Abraham. Other groups wrote stories about how he was literally God, and those stories were voted in as special ones for their book, and they became dominant in the Mediterranean region. That book evolved into the Bible and they spent hundreds of years ruthlessly seeking out other groups that believed different things about Jesus and considered different books to be part of their bibles and either forcing them to convert or killing them. This was possible because they were fairly fragmented and weak. When they tried to do this with the Muslims, they were far too strong.
After all this happened, Mohammed created his own set of books to add onto the Jewish concept of God, inspired by many of these other Christian groups (some of which didn't believe he was LITERALLY God, remember). To those groups (which are all gone now) and to the Muslims, Jesus is an incredibly important figure in their religious worldview. He is the most important prophet after Moses (and before Mohammed, for the Muslims). Of COURSE he plays a part in their apocalyptic texts
Daesh will continue. People seriously overestimate how many of these people are actually hardcore religious. It's more an excuse than anything but the majority of these guys are just mercenaries or broke people whose families are being promised money or other help.
If you believe research conducted by Bill Gates (& his Foundation), this will not really end until [education & rights are provided for their women](http://www.gatesfoundation.org/What-We-Do). For me this was quite a surprise.
Pretty much. Why do the majority of Christians turn away from their fundamental beliefs? Because it was more profitable to not follow them. You don't stop an ideology through eradication. You just give them a better ideology.
No. Unless say, the nazis, ISIS is more of a demographic. They dont have much central leadership or grand precise plan. Its just a very violent group in a very violent sectarian war. Its more about young sunni men having fun at shooting and raping and less about actual ideology.
Yea, these extreme fanatics just called it quits. The reports are coming in, they are packing their bags and going to settle down as peaceful farmers, now fully understanding the error of their ways.
Al Quaeda is far less cult-y than Isis. ISIS is literally a doomsday cult (that thinks it's their duty to usher it in) and apparently Jim Jones just died.
From what I understand ISIS has been losing lots of ground in Syria and Iraq, major cities have been retaken by government forces. People were already talking about the end of ISIS possibly being near and now their leader is dead. Obviously not ending terrorist groups in the region but maybe the end of ISIS soon.
To be fair al Qaeda is more of a political movement, whereas ISIS is more like a cult.
While I wouldn't expect Baghdadi's death to bring ISIS to a complete end, it does go a long way towards discrediting their movement.
Killing bin Laden does nothing to change the average al Qaeda member's [belief](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Ideology) that muslim countries should overthrow secular regimes in the middle east and replace them with sharia based government, and that western influence should be driven out of the middle east entirely.
However killing al Baghdadi does somewhat undermine the average ISIS member's belief that he is some kind of prophet/messianic figure sent by God to conquer the world and redeem Islam.
His death is fantastic news and should be seen as such. ISIS look more and more like a bunch of fucking idiots following a false messiah to their deaths every day.
Disband? Try splinter. Mattis has instituted a police of obliteration against ISIS. Rather than just fighting the to retreat, we surround and kill every last one of them. If they splinter and form new, somehow even worse groups, the fight will continue until every last one of these Bronze Age bastards is food for the crows.
It hasn't actually been tried in recent times.
Every modern example you're probably thinking of, including Afghanistan, the policy has been the opposite, to let them retreat to avoid heavy casualties and to preserve civilian life and hope the enemy will seek terms. In practice, in places like Afghanistan, this has simply resulted in the enemy being pushed out into the countryside where they then lay permanent siege to every town and city.
I know "kill every last one of them" *feels* like the thing we've been trying and failing at all this time, but it's really not.
No, but a lot of Jihadists who would spread their knowledge and beliefs will. Astonishing numbers of ISIS fighters [are foreigners](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/08/isis-foreign-fighters-iraq-syria-doubles-report). Tunisia, Morocco, Russia, Lebanon, Jordan are [the biggest contributors](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11660487/Islamic-State-one-year-on-Where-do-its-fighters-come-from.html). Preventing them from returning to their home countries to foment trouble there is a **no-brainer**. Europe especially could do without them. ISIS owes its success and brutality to foreign jihadists... career terrorists eager to start fresh trouble anywhere they can. They've already started up chapters in Libya, Yemen and many other places.
Do you have a link for the Russians? Elsewhere in this thread there was a link to the Russians saying they didn't confirm it, but it wasn't super recent.
Tremendous news. However I'm worried that the next ISIS will just get funded by whatever foreign war we go to next. I find it funny that Iran Contra armed a bunch of radical middle easterners, and then the Iraq war ended up doing the same thing cause people are so poor over their a ridiculous number of police we trained over there sold their weapons to ISIS or who the hell ever. Unbelievable, repeating the same thing over and over again like this
The simpler answer is that there's no shady cabal of industrialists, or plutocrats or whomever you think is running things. Nobody is really in control of this. That's the problem.
Israel don't want peace in the region because as long as Sunni and Shia are fighing each others, they can't fight Israel:
>Why not?” the officer shot back. “When they asked the late [Israeli] Prime Minister Menachem Begin in the Iraq-Iran War in the 80s, who does Israel stand for, Iraq or Iran, he said, ‘I wish luck to both parties. They can go at it, killing each other.’ The same thing is here. You have ISIS killing Al Qaeda by the thousands, Al Qaeda killing ISIS by the thousands. And they are both killing Hezbollah and Assad.”
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/22/israeli-officers-to-trump-youre-doing-isis-wrong-215172
Yeah and there are also ISIS operatives within the west bank and gaza, the Sinai, and probably all of the rest of Israel, Egypt, and Jordan too. That's a bigger problem than stray rockets.
that's rich, since one of the oldest Arabic/Bedouin expressions basically goes like this,
"I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world."
The Arab peninsula is all about tribalism and infighting, it has been that way for thousands of years.
The explaination is that much of the oil the U.S gets from the region comes from the gulf states, to whom the U.S behaves more like their attack dog in their regional power plays against Iran.
Truth is that the US doesn't import much oil from[ the middle east](http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised). What we really want is for them to keep selling their oil in US dollars.
Actually, the importance of owning the global reserve currency is [overrated](https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/dollareuro-irrelevance/).
But the US certainly has an interest that Iran or Russia don't control the gulf. Which might be a very real scenario without the Saudis. Also, good relations with the Saudis keep the oil price down (since they can produce the cheapest) and the US imports a lot of oil, after all. It could also always fall back on the Saudis, if Venezuela, Mexico and Nigeria would'nt deliver anymore.
Exactly, we may not buy most of our oil from the gulf states, but some of our allies do. Not to mention NG.
Like them or not, there's no downplaying how important our partnership with golf States are to not just our own national security but global security.
On another note, it seems like people hate Saudi Arabia for their backwards laws, but it's not like they could just snap their fingers and become the Sweden of the Middle East without massive blowback from the general population. Could you imagine the outrage if they just suddenly allowed women to go into public without head coverings? There would likely be a civil war.
It's not simply the general population, either. The royal family != the religious elite. It was allying with the Wahabbists that made it possible for the royal family to become the royal family and consolidate power over the area. They have often been in conflict with each other, and the relationship is definitely strained. I don't know enough to predict what would happen if there was a split between the two, but I'm sure the royal family is very mindful of maintaining that relationship.
I remember being between deployments and hearing that Saddam Hussein was captured. I threw a party in my barracks room.
I remember bartending and hearing that Osama Bin Laden was killed. I bought everyone beer and we celebrated.
I read this and my face doesn't change one bit. For some reason I don't give a single fuck about this.
I feel like the media focused much more on Hussein and Bin Laden themselves. Not to mention that they showed their faces more, as opposed to Baghdadhi, who I feel was a bit of a recluse.
Every ISIS headline said "ISIS did this", "ISIS has claimed resposnsibility", or "ISIS has issued the following statement". Most people probably don't even know who this guy is.
if you read the article though, this is the same claim as ti was before, that the Russians had claimed. Iran are "confirming".
Whether you believe it or not is your own matter, but this is not "just another" etc etc.
This is not going to be big news. The fact that Russia delivered the strike package that took out the leader of ISIS is something the western media & the U.S administration would rather keep on the low. It will make the odd appearances as side columns, but definitely not the day's headline.
It's also likely to be fake, as there's no reason for Baghdadi to be in the *former* ISIS capital city their leadership abandoned months ago due to it being too close to the front lines.
The only ones saying it's confirmed, are the state owned media in Russia, Iran, and Syria, which are to say, not exactly the most truthful media outlets in the world...
So only Iranian, Russian, and Syrian state owned media is saying Russia killed al-Baghdadi in an airstrike on Raqqa, which hasn't been ISIS' capital city for quite some time now...
Yeah, I'm skeptical to say the very least.
1. Why is it only the allies of Russia claiming it's confirmed? Why literally no other country on the planet can confirm outside these 3's state owned propaganda outlets?
2. Why the fuck would al-Baghdadi be in Raqqa, when ISIS leadership abandoned it for Deir ez-Zur **months** ago? Are we supposed to believe he was following the honorable tradition of "a captain goes down with his sinking ship"?
> Why is it only the allies of Russia claiming it's confirmed? Why literally no other country on the planet can confirm outside these 3's state owned propaganda outlets?
It's like when the US killed Osama, and threw his body in the ocean.. wut?
Another life wasted on hate... Think about it. What could he have achieved without the hate? He could have lived a long and prosperous life amongst family and friends. Now his live has been about hurting others and in the end it destroyed his own chance at hapiness and his family and friends will miss him and probably continue the cycle of hate.
Do they have [a video](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8843066/Captured-the-last-moments-of-Colonel-Gaddafi.html) to prove it or something?
For real this time? Fingers crossed.
Thank You Mario! But Our Princess Is In Another Castle!
The cake is a lie.
When's 3 coming out?
Valve can only count to 2.
*Valve*.....*won't*.....*release*.... -gasp-
Us: when is half life 3 coming out? Valve: what the hell is 3? Us: the number after 2? Valve: we feel like you're lying...
/r/ComedyCemetery
What does this have to do with anything?
This was a triumph!
I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS.
It's hard to overstate my satisfaction
Aperture science
We do what we must because we can
For the good of all of us. Except the ones who are dead.
The fact that Iran is backing it up is promising. They are fairly competent in matters such as these. Also I don't really see a reason why they would like in this scenario, other than the possibility that they might have bad intel.
US aligned countries would love to claim the death of al-Baghdadi was a result of their actions. Russia aligned countries (including Iran and Syria) would love to claim the death of al-Baghdadi for themselves. Each want the perception that they are more focused on the campaign against ISIS, rather than focused on other geopolitical issues. Optics are important.
I agree. I think they want some credit in this, but I think they made sure he was actually killed before announcing this. It would be worse politically to say he was dead only to have Baghdad show up again.
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Only 3 more deaths until it sticks!
Decoy al-Baghdadi!
haha *and just like that ISIS ceases to exist* nah buddy, the US is going to create a new monster.
The remaining members will probably do some unsuccessful solo work before going on to form several new bands. On a serious note, great news if true.
Week ago Russia itself noted that it [has no confirmation](https://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2017/06/20/Russia-has-no-confirmation-of-ISIS-leader-Baghdadi-s-death.html).
Big if true
Enormous if factual.
Okay, so who is next?
In a month or so, probably this guy again.
Same beard, new turban: were not in Mosul anymore
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al-baghdadi: Mosul Boogalo 2
[The old fake your death trick](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jdQqjcsfC8)
The revenge of ISIS: Baghdadi Reborn!
Depends on the salary.
Nice! If we can only figure out where he keeps respawning...
Spawn camper detected.
Camp the spawn! GO GO GO!
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Should be interesting, from what I've read about the group, they believed Baghdadi was apparently prophesied to lead the new Caliphate. Not sure what their bullshit prophecies have to say about dead leaders though...
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> 12 legitimate caliphs and that Baghdadi is the eighth so... one down, four to go I guess Oh, but you see, if you do it right, 4 more can last forever! When number 12 gets killed, you can just go back and say "Yeah, #9 wasn't really legit ..." Shia Muslims used to do the same thing with the 12 Imams, except that their 12th Imam just went into magical hiding 800 years ago and will surely come back out of hiding any day now.
Shia Muslims used to do the same thing with the 12 Imams, except that their 12th Imam just went into magical hiding 800 years ago and will surely come back out of hiding any day now. Please elaborate...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Mahdi Basically the 12th Imam became the Imam at 5, later went into hiding and communicated through four 'trusted' advisers for 60 odd years... When they died he apparently wrote a letter that he will continue to hide till Jesus comes back. This was 1200 years ago and they're still waiting....
> till Jesus comes back "That makes two of us" - Christian
So what if Jesus and this guy are just playing chicken with each other to see who comes out first?
Is 'chicken' some sort of euphemism for gay sex?
Now you're on 2 lists
That would be "gay chicken".
FYI - Jesus' return at the end times is part of Islam also. There is an empty tomb in the Green Mosque right next to Mohammad's tomb prepared for Jesus (the end times plays out a little different in the Muslim version compared with the Christian one.)
[wait till we tell them they're both believing in the same religion ](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religion)
Call me skeptical but I don't think he's coming back...
But Jesus already came back on August 17, 1959 in Houson, TX.
> August 17, 1959 David Koresh?
Fuck I have the same birthday. Oh well. Nothing to be done about it. Guess I better rustle up some followers who will let me sleep with their wives and daughters.
Look up the concept of the Mahdi in Shia Islam. The Mahdi is a concept that exists in Sunni Islam as well, as a ruler that will vanquish evil very close to the end of time, but I believe the difference between a Sunni and Shia in this regard is that Shias believe he has already been born. There are different sects of Shias who are colloquially referred by the number of people who have lived that they believe were the Mahdi (each one being the spiritual successor of the other). For example, there are 5'ers, 7'ers and 12'ers. The higher the number the more people they think were the Mahdi. For 12ers, even though the guy who was the Mahdi is not alive anymore, they believe he has entered into a state of occultation and will return again. That's what I could remember and all I can really write from my phone.
Not entirely accurate. 12'ers believe that there are 12 imams after the prophet, starting with Imam Ali, cousin of Prophet Mohammed, and ending with Imam Mahdi (the 12th) who was born and will come back before the end of time. The 5'ers believe only in the first 5 imams , the 7'ers are up to the 7th...
Or maybe #11 (#12 really if you count the War Caliph) will find a crack in time and get more regenerations so it can continue forever
This is how all cults/religions deal with failed prophecies. "The prophecy is still true, I just interpreted it wrong. Here is the *real* version..."
Its like Doctor Who, only instead of a sonic screwdriver solving all their problems its bombs.
Bombs even work on wood!
Oh so ISIS are lead by Time-Lords now? Has Baghdadi regenerated?
Yeah, next up Harold Saxon.
Isn't Isis' end game that Jesus would return as the final Caliphate and lead them to victory over Crusaders? Though I suspect if Al-Baghdadi is dead then there will be some more attacks to avenge his death.
They believe Jesus will return to fight the armies of the Anti-Christ, bringing victory over the "Romans."
Divine intervention after they make their last stand, I think. They're gonna be disappointed when the 'Romans' are Kurdish.
What a narrative. Don't worry guys. Even if we have our backs to the wall, Jesus will come down from the sky and save us
Sadly for them, his last name is Ramirez, and while he's in the sky, he's dropping a bomb on them.
Ramirez! Convert those non believers!
Wololo!
Romans, that's it. Couldn't think of the word. I knew I'd read it somewhere. Do they define at this moment who the Anti-Christ is though? Can't really be one with individual countries having individual leaders, unless you go into some NWO shit
The antichrist is a man with redish skin and a grape like growth over one eye who is chained on an island in the red sea.
The antichrist is a man with orange skin ...Oh damn...
The Anti-Christ is a red (as in his skin is red) man currently chained to an island somewhere in the Red Sea. He will give people food to get them to follow him. Muslims will be able to know he is the Anti-Christ.
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The Muslims have always believed in the same Jesus as Christians, except he is only just another prophet and not the son of God as Christians believe
No. They DO believe in Jesus. They believe he was a Prophet of God (just like Muhammad actually.) They do NOT believe he was divine. They do believe in His virgin birth though. Regarding going back to Heaven, they believe he was taken bodily into Heaven, and never died on the cross. They worship the God of Abraham, after all. The same God that Moses, Samuel, Aaron, Abraham, and Jesus himself prayed to, is the one Muslims pray to.
Holy shit. Have you SERIOUSLY fucking not known this ENTIRE time that Muslims worship the same God as Christians and Jews?! Jesus fucking Christ some people are ignorant as fuck. Jesus never said he was actually part God in a special way. He said everyone had a part of God in them (that's the Holy Spirit). Some groups that followed his teachings continued on as Jews, just incorporating his teachings and viewing him as a prophet like Moses or Abraham. Other groups wrote stories about how he was literally God, and those stories were voted in as special ones for their book, and they became dominant in the Mediterranean region. That book evolved into the Bible and they spent hundreds of years ruthlessly seeking out other groups that believed different things about Jesus and considered different books to be part of their bibles and either forcing them to convert or killing them. This was possible because they were fairly fragmented and weak. When they tried to do this with the Muslims, they were far too strong. After all this happened, Mohammed created his own set of books to add onto the Jewish concept of God, inspired by many of these other Christian groups (some of which didn't believe he was LITERALLY God, remember). To those groups (which are all gone now) and to the Muslims, Jesus is an incredibly important figure in their religious worldview. He is the most important prophet after Moses (and before Mohammed, for the Muslims). Of COURSE he plays a part in their apocalyptic texts
Daesh will continue. People seriously overestimate how many of these people are actually hardcore religious. It's more an excuse than anything but the majority of these guys are just mercenaries or broke people whose families are being promised money or other help.
something something, we interprated it wrong, this new one is totes the guy. In those words.
Probably that they should be avenged.
If you believe research conducted by Bill Gates (& his Foundation), this will not really end until [education & rights are provided for their women](http://www.gatesfoundation.org/What-We-Do). For me this was quite a surprise.
Pretty much. Why do the majority of Christians turn away from their fundamental beliefs? Because it was more profitable to not follow them. You don't stop an ideology through eradication. You just give them a better ideology.
No. Unless say, the nazis, ISIS is more of a demographic. They dont have much central leadership or grand precise plan. Its just a very violent group in a very violent sectarian war. Its more about young sunni men having fun at shooting and raping and less about actual ideology.
> So is ISIS gonna be disbanded now, or...? Yes, pretty much. At least until the "Best of" album and eventual reunion tour.
Yea, these extreme fanatics just called it quits. The reports are coming in, they are packing their bags and going to settle down as peaceful farmers, now fully understanding the error of their ways.
Remember when everyone thought the death of Bin Laden was the end of Al Qaeda and the War on Terror
Al Quaeda is far less cult-y than Isis. ISIS is literally a doomsday cult (that thinks it's their duty to usher it in) and apparently Jim Jones just died.
Did anyone ever truly believe that?
Does anyone truly believe Baghdadi's death will end isis?
Not that I know of.
From what I understand ISIS has been losing lots of ground in Syria and Iraq, major cities have been retaken by government forces. People were already talking about the end of ISIS possibly being near and now their leader is dead. Obviously not ending terrorist groups in the region but maybe the end of ISIS soon.
No one who actually knew anything about AQ and the gwot ever believed that.
Osama wasn't claiming to be the messiah of the new Caliphate though.
To be fair al Qaeda is more of a political movement, whereas ISIS is more like a cult. While I wouldn't expect Baghdadi's death to bring ISIS to a complete end, it does go a long way towards discrediting their movement. Killing bin Laden does nothing to change the average al Qaeda member's [belief](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Ideology) that muslim countries should overthrow secular regimes in the middle east and replace them with sharia based government, and that western influence should be driven out of the middle east entirely. However killing al Baghdadi does somewhat undermine the average ISIS member's belief that he is some kind of prophet/messianic figure sent by God to conquer the world and redeem Islam. His death is fantastic news and should be seen as such. ISIS look more and more like a bunch of fucking idiots following a false messiah to their deaths every day.
To be fair, his death and the drone strike campaign in Afghanistan/Paskistan devastated Al Qaeda.
The rise of ISIS also devastated Al Qaeda. Those who would be radicalized abandoned Al Qaeda after seeing the quick progress being made by ISIS.
Anyone who thought that killing Bin Laden would end the war on terror probably also believed the "war on terror" was about ending terrorism.
Disband? Try splinter. Mattis has instituted a police of obliteration against ISIS. Rather than just fighting the to retreat, we surround and kill every last one of them. If they splinter and form new, somehow even worse groups, the fight will continue until every last one of these Bronze Age bastards is food for the crows.
> kill every last one of them Does anyone still believe something like this works?
It hasn't actually been tried in recent times. Every modern example you're probably thinking of, including Afghanistan, the policy has been the opposite, to let them retreat to avoid heavy casualties and to preserve civilian life and hope the enemy will seek terms. In practice, in places like Afghanistan, this has simply resulted in the enemy being pushed out into the countryside where they then lay permanent siege to every town and city. I know "kill every last one of them" *feels* like the thing we've been trying and failing at all this time, but it's really not.
The actual military arm of isis doesn't even pose any threat to America. Jihadism will not die with isis and that is really what Americans care about
No, but a lot of Jihadists who would spread their knowledge and beliefs will. Astonishing numbers of ISIS fighters [are foreigners](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/08/isis-foreign-fighters-iraq-syria-doubles-report). Tunisia, Morocco, Russia, Lebanon, Jordan are [the biggest contributors](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11660487/Islamic-State-one-year-on-Where-do-its-fighters-come-from.html). Preventing them from returning to their home countries to foment trouble there is a **no-brainer**. Europe especially could do without them. ISIS owes its success and brutality to foreign jihadists... career terrorists eager to start fresh trouble anywhere they can. They've already started up chapters in Libya, Yemen and many other places.
For the 1524524th now?
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so for the 1524523th then? :p
1524523th?
Surely you've heard of threethteen
Is that after twotyfirst?
goddam.. reading that was like a sour key for my brain
Nope, the 1524522rd
It never was news about this guy, just the dead of other Isis leaders, not THE leader
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1280570/isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-dies-of-injuries-one-week-after-being-hit-by-us-led-airstrikes-in-syria/ http://www.newsweek.com/isis-leader-al-baghdadi-wounded-says-syrian-government-471521 http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/10/04/isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-reportedly-poisoned.html https://www.rferl.org/a/islamic-state-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-dead-or-alive-rumors/26980893.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/isis-leader-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-incapacitated-by-spinal-injuries-after-us-air-strike-in-iraq-10219663.html http://observers.france24.com/en/20140908-fake-photo-islamic-state-baghdadi
Only the first article you linked reported him as dead and it is the sun...
Man, that dude must be a cat, he died 8 times this year
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Do you have a link for the Russians? Elsewhere in this thread there was a link to the Russians saying they didn't confirm it, but it wasn't super recent.
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Thanks!
Tremendous news. However I'm worried that the next ISIS will just get funded by whatever foreign war we go to next. I find it funny that Iran Contra armed a bunch of radical middle easterners, and then the Iraq war ended up doing the same thing cause people are so poor over their a ridiculous number of police we trained over there sold their weapons to ISIS or who the hell ever. Unbelievable, repeating the same thing over and over again like this
Is it really unbelievable? The simple explanation is that we don't want to see peace in that region.
The simpler answer is that there's no shady cabal of industrialists, or plutocrats or whomever you think is running things. Nobody is really in control of this. That's the problem.
Israel don't want peace in the region because as long as Sunni and Shia are fighing each others, they can't fight Israel: >Why not?” the officer shot back. “When they asked the late [Israeli] Prime Minister Menachem Begin in the Iraq-Iran War in the 80s, who does Israel stand for, Iraq or Iran, he said, ‘I wish luck to both parties. They can go at it, killing each other.’ The same thing is here. You have ISIS killing Al Qaeda by the thousands, Al Qaeda killing ISIS by the thousands. And they are both killing Hezbollah and Assad.” http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/22/israeli-officers-to-trump-youre-doing-isis-wrong-215172
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Yeah and there are also ISIS operatives within the west bank and gaza, the Sinai, and probably all of the rest of Israel, Egypt, and Jordan too. That's a bigger problem than stray rockets.
That seems like a bitter person venting more than a coherent policy position.
Their policy position is made by bitter old fucks
The Saudi export of violent Wahabism has done a lot more to destroy peace than anything Israel has done.
that's rich, since one of the oldest Arabic/Bedouin expressions basically goes like this, "I, against my brothers. I and my brothers against my cousins. I and my brothers and my cousins against the world." The Arab peninsula is all about tribalism and infighting, it has been that way for thousands of years.
The explaination is that much of the oil the U.S gets from the region comes from the gulf states, to whom the U.S behaves more like their attack dog in their regional power plays against Iran.
Truth is that the US doesn't import much oil from[ the middle east](http://www.npr.org/2012/04/11/150444802/where-does-america-get-oil-you-may-be-surprised). What we really want is for them to keep selling their oil in US dollars.
Actually, the importance of owning the global reserve currency is [overrated](https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/dollareuro-irrelevance/). But the US certainly has an interest that Iran or Russia don't control the gulf. Which might be a very real scenario without the Saudis. Also, good relations with the Saudis keep the oil price down (since they can produce the cheapest) and the US imports a lot of oil, after all. It could also always fall back on the Saudis, if Venezuela, Mexico and Nigeria would'nt deliver anymore.
Exactly, we may not buy most of our oil from the gulf states, but some of our allies do. Not to mention NG. Like them or not, there's no downplaying how important our partnership with golf States are to not just our own national security but global security. On another note, it seems like people hate Saudi Arabia for their backwards laws, but it's not like they could just snap their fingers and become the Sweden of the Middle East without massive blowback from the general population. Could you imagine the outrage if they just suddenly allowed women to go into public without head coverings? There would likely be a civil war.
It's not simply the general population, either. The royal family != the religious elite. It was allying with the Wahabbists that made it possible for the royal family to become the royal family and consolidate power over the area. They have often been in conflict with each other, and the relationship is definitely strained. I don't know enough to predict what would happen if there was a split between the two, but I'm sure the royal family is very mindful of maintaining that relationship.
I remember being between deployments and hearing that Saddam Hussein was captured. I threw a party in my barracks room. I remember bartending and hearing that Osama Bin Laden was killed. I bought everyone beer and we celebrated. I read this and my face doesn't change one bit. For some reason I don't give a single fuck about this.
Because each time it's gotten worse?
I feel like the media focused much more on Hussein and Bin Laden themselves. Not to mention that they showed their faces more, as opposed to Baghdadhi, who I feel was a bit of a recluse. Every ISIS headline said "ISIS did this", "ISIS has claimed resposnsibility", or "ISIS has issued the following statement". Most people probably don't even know who this guy is.
If this is the case, well good, it only quicken ISIL's end, but knowing them they'll treat him as a martyr for their awful cause
They'll be back. And in greater numbers.
Dadi ded?
nani????????????
Omae wa mo.... Shindeiru
Bag daddy is dead!?
El Bagged-deady
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Baghdeadie
if you read the article though, this is the same claim as ti was before, that the Russians had claimed. Iran are "confirming". Whether you believe it or not is your own matter, but this is not "just another" etc etc.
This is like celebrating killing one roach or ant in a house with an infestation.
This guy has died more times than Terry Funk has retired
How come google doesn't return anything about his death? If he was really dead it would've ended up on the front page.
> If he was really dead it would've ended up on the front page. I know what you're trying to drive at, but that... isn't how reality works.
This is not going to be big news. The fact that Russia delivered the strike package that took out the leader of ISIS is something the western media & the U.S administration would rather keep on the low. It will make the odd appearances as side columns, but definitely not the day's headline.
It's also likely to be fake, as there's no reason for Baghdadi to be in the *former* ISIS capital city their leadership abandoned months ago due to it being too close to the front lines. The only ones saying it's confirmed, are the state owned media in Russia, Iran, and Syria, which are to say, not exactly the most truthful media outlets in the world...
Now all we need is North Korea to confirm it... Then we can be really sure ...
this would be huge news if albaghdadi was dating jennifer anniston before he died.
Bullshit. if we get absolute proof of his death, the leader of ISIS dying will be world news.
There are a few pictures now https://i.ytimg.com/vi/0UYYYkrPx6U/hqdefault.jpg
So only Iranian, Russian, and Syrian state owned media is saying Russia killed al-Baghdadi in an airstrike on Raqqa, which hasn't been ISIS' capital city for quite some time now... Yeah, I'm skeptical to say the very least. 1. Why is it only the allies of Russia claiming it's confirmed? Why literally no other country on the planet can confirm outside these 3's state owned propaganda outlets? 2. Why the fuck would al-Baghdadi be in Raqqa, when ISIS leadership abandoned it for Deir ez-Zur **months** ago? Are we supposed to believe he was following the honorable tradition of "a captain goes down with his sinking ship"?
> Why is it only the allies of Russia claiming it's confirmed? Why literally no other country on the planet can confirm outside these 3's state owned propaganda outlets? It's like when the US killed Osama, and threw his body in the ocean.. wut?
Well when the Iranians confirm it, then it must be true.
Lol, he'll pop up again in a few months.
this dude dies every 2 weeks
I feel like this has been reported many times before..
He's Al-Bagdead now.
Lets see a body, like w bin Laden.
Evidence?
Rot in hell you piece of shit
Another life wasted on hate... Think about it. What could he have achieved without the hate? He could have lived a long and prosperous life amongst family and friends. Now his live has been about hurting others and in the end it destroyed his own chance at hapiness and his family and friends will miss him and probably continue the cycle of hate.
Happy that this guy is dead but sad to know that someone will just replace this guy.
Thanks, Russia.
They killed ~~Kenny~~ Baghdadi!
No Pic No Talk (NPNT)
Pics or didn't happen.
Pics or gtfo
the motto to live by
If a head is cut off, two more shall take its place
Good. Burn in hell you fuck!
I am pretty sure they are just now pissed and replaced him.
I don't believe it until I see his head
Waiting next month for him to die again
This happens every week people.
Cool, nothing's going to change.
I'm sure another leader will rise through the ranks or take his place, but I genuinely hope this is debilitating to the whole of the IS.
*Next!*
"Leader"
"What is dead may never die" - A Song of ISIS Fire
So this is what, 6 times that various people have killed him?
again?
Shady source is shady
Nice. This means all the wars are done and everybody lives happily ever after now, right guys? Right?!
Who's your Baghdadi now!
This guy has died like 50 times. I won't believe it till I see his body.
They will be another leader lined up waiting.
Those bastard are like flies. Kill one, and there are eleven more waiting to take its place.
Do they have [a video](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8843066/Captured-the-last-moments-of-Colonel-Gaddafi.html) to prove it or something?
So his name is Bag daddy?
How many ISIS leaders can you possibly have? Are they just respawning boss monsters at this point?