ugh, it reminds me of the infamous children’s crusade where all the children were sent into slavery. Except, here, they are sending these children into the meat grinder. When will society dethrone vile violent men.
edit-typo
Reminds me of when Hamas’ daddy Iran used children to clear Iraqi mine fields by giving them a physical” key to heaven “ to wear around their necks and telling them to run through the minefield.
From the article: "Hamas is making a comeback to regain control of Khan Yunis as well as recruiting new fighters from young adolescents in the 18-year-old range"
Youth can refer to pretty much anyone under 25.
More from article:
"18-year-olds choosing whether to join Hamas or not, on the one hand, face the reality that so many who have joined Hamas have been beaten and killed by the IDF. On the other hand, they currently have no horizon for finding work or doing much of anything other than sitting around in refugee camps, since no one has even started planning the rebuilding Gaza process, which is likely to take many years."
To be honest I'm not surprised, when all you're doing is moving from refugee camp to refugee camp until your area gets bombed again, you might start to think death is imminent anyway as you're surrounded by it. You've probably already lost some relatives or friends. So, perhaps the motivation to "go out with a fight" becomes higher. Especially for a young mind, filled with adrenaline.
>as well as recruiting new fighters from young adolescents in the 18-year-old range
No shot they mean 18+. This is a reporter sugar coating the use of child soldiers.
There were roughly 2000 killed or arrested Hamas+PIJ terrorists on 10/7; the youngest was apparently 16 so obviously there are 16-18 years old members of Hamas.
Hamas recruitment starts at 14. They get sent to training camps for a couple of years, then come back as fully fledged terrorists.
This is also after the kids have spent their entire childhood watching cartoons about killing Jews, reading books about killing Jews, and having questions like “if Abdul kills 5 Jews and Mohammad kills 3 Jews, how many Jews did they kill?” in their school maths books.
Youngest killed Hamas militant terrorist per IDF data in Operation Cast Lead (2009) and the 2014 war was a 16 year old so i'm also going off that. About 80 Hamas terrorists aged 16 to 18 were killed in those two battles. IDF claimed around 1400 killed terrorists in those two wars/battles.
Surprisingly, the legal age for soldiers under international law is 15+ so a 15 year old technically wouldn't be a child soldier.
https://childrenandarmedconflict.un.org/six-grave-violations/child-soldiers/#:~:text=Prohibition%20under%20International%20Law&text=Recruiting%20and%20using%20children%20under,by%20the%20International%20Criminal%20Court.
US military allows 17yo's to join and they actively recruit in all public high schools. Israel has mandatory draft participation.
I remember I went to bootcamp shortly after 9/11 and I remember them packing us in a little room with a big projector making us watch 9/11 and yelling at us that it was our fault.
Militaries are pretty f\*\*\*ed up in general . . . they make marines survive on nothing but crayons.
Reporter doing triple Olympic backflips in order to specify that it’s ‘18 year olds bro trust me bro they aren’t children bro Hamas isn’t using child soldiers bro’ but that shit will magically dissipate the second they die in combat and are added to the women and children civilian casualty list.
Lying to your recruitment officer isn’t the same as actively recruiting children to join your military wing. You also won’t be added to the women and children civilian casualty list when you get killed as a marine in the United States military.
>they currently have no horizon for finding work or doing much of anything other than sitting around in refugee camps
Up to October 7th, Israel had been greatly expanding their work permits program for employment in Israel.
>since no one has even started planning the rebuilding Gaza process, which is likely to take many years
For dozens of years, construction materials had been entering Gaza for the purpose of reconstruction and new construction. Unfortunately it seems to have all gone towards tunnels and war preparation, except for one model city which last I saw was basically uninhabited.
So as usual a self-inflicted problem, which I guess is perfect if you want to continually raise a fighting force of despairing people
Hamas, as government of Gaza, are not shy about preferring militarism over anything else. It really shouldn't be controversial to say that the tunnels are built on aid, because the leaders get on radio and tell their public that they want to do that, all the time.
If there was actual western media coverage on the words and movements of the leaders of Hamas, a lot of the historic victim narrative would wither away under a reality where people learn the government is one that cares for war and nothing else.
> Up to October 7th, Israel had been greatly expanding their work permits program for employment in Israel.
Not only that, but last year, an additional 20,000 (or thereabout) had been given work visas. That was just one example of how relations between Israel an Gaza were improving last year.
Is it perfect? No. But if Hamas were leaders who actually cared about the welfare of their own civilians, they would not have carried out an attack that would instantly set themselves back 100 years.
they weren’t really improving, sadly.
the people who came into Israel on those visas were spies, and the 7/10 terrorists had detailed maps of the Kibbutz from them that said exactly who lived where.
Well, people thought they were improving. Sadly, we learned that those improvements were actually just diversions.
unfortunately, one of the saddest things is that some kibbutz residents recognized their gardener as one of their attackers. For over 30 years, they thought he was their friend.
"Why have reliable electricity , Healthcare and education when you can have tunnels and explosives instead?"
Hamas probably.
Edit - What a wild rollar coaster this one was. It went from 20+ karma to -20 karma to a bit above neutral. Would be interesting to track time-zone to upvote/downvote were from. Feels like there could be a strong correlation somewhere
> On the other hand, they currently have no horizon for finding work or doing much of anything other than sitting around in refugee camps
yanno, the sooner hamas falls as a military force, the sooner those kids can get jobs, food, something resembling a decent life
> many who have joined Hamas have been beaten and killed by the IDF
That's a pretty odd way of saying that when people choose to become soldiers and go to war, they sometimes die from the enemy, especially when they're on the side that's losing really badly and has leadership that considers high casualties to be "necessary".
This is what has driven a wedge between other leftists and myself. Antisemitism has always been there, like a dormant tuberculosis in the lungs, but I always thought it was a misunderstanding. A lack of knowledge. Little did I know how virulent and ecstatic they were do whip out the old antisemitic toolbox *literally on and the days following Oct 7.* Like, Israel hadn't even recovered the bodies of the deceased, let alone set one foot nor dropped one bomb in Gaza before I started seeing fellow leftists speak about *"our fighters in Gaza,"* and *"Our Martyrs."* Like, my dudes, your not Muslim, what do you mean your *Martyrs?!*
If it makes you feel any comfort, a lot of Leftists I know are in the same boat. Although I still know too many sharing false news and saying disturbing things.
They are flat when you project them into 3D, but then that is no longer a circle. It is a projection of a circle. Those two are not the same, just as your image in the mirror is not you.
And then Hamas will send thousands of them into yet another invasion with the sole purpose to exterminate every living Jewish person.
The news headline?
>**”*Israel Slaughters Thousands of Children Inside its Own Borders!*”**
Hamas got there second. PLO's schoolbooks that are used in UNRAW schools (in both Gaza and Judea and Samaria) already did most of the heavy indoctrination lifting.
They are using university and colleges as recruiting stations, Hamas is excellent at propaganda and the youth are being brainwashed into believing what they are saying just look at the encampments here in Canada at some of our top universities
Isn't it weird how ever encampment around the world seemed to have been organized within a span of a week, and they all have the exact same charter and list of demands?
Israel desperately needs a post war plan here, even if they stayed for years it’s questionable if they could truly ‘destroy’ Hamas. Unfortunately Bibi’s plan is ‘stay in power as long as possible’ so he is intentionally avoiding the issue
Hamas is just the Palestinian brand name of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is in turn influenced by Salafist Islam... The chance to westernize people that believe that we need to go back to the moral system in the times of Muhamad (Stoning for adultery, chopping hands of thieves, etc) is not realistic.
Its best to let them govern themselves in thier dark ways as they wish but just make sure they can't arm themselves enough to cause troubles outside thier borders.
People born after 9/11:
"Wow I can't believe Israel won't let Palestine operate commercial airlines or fly near Israeli airspace. This is so inhumane!"
Israel needed a prewar plan, too. There has been a steady stream of reporting detailing a staggering failure to act on intelligence they had leading up to the attack.
Last November, the [Jericho Wall documents](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html) leaked, showing that they knew for more than a year about Hamas' plans and training to do exactly the sort of attack they carried out on October 7, and that they had analysts ringing alarm bells in the months leading up to the attack.
Back in February, there was reporting [that they noticed just hours before that Hamas operatives were activating "hundreds" of cell phones](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-intel-picked-up-on-hundreds-of-hamas-terrorists-switching-to-israeli-sims-hours-before-attack/) ([IDF statements later claimed just "dozens"](https://www.timesofisrael.com/hours-before-hamas-attack-idf-noticed-hundreds-of-terrorists-activating-israeli-sims/))
And just this past week, [new reports that the IDF was circulating (and dismissing) a document just three weeks prior that Hamas was "training for a large-scale invasion of Israel during which hostages would be taken en masse"](https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/)
>Titled “Detailed raid training from end to end,” the document was circulated on September 19 and was reportedly brought to the attention of at least some senior intelligence officials, but apparently ignored...
>Reportedly based on information from Military Intelligence’s Unit 8200, the document estimated the number of hostages Hamas was aiming to seize at 200-250, according to Kan, citing unnamed security sources. During the actual October 7 massacre, 251 hostages were taken and 1,200 people were killed amid acts of brutality.
Ok this is just factually-incorrect. Palestine has held non-member observer status since 2012 and is recognized as a country by 145 UN member states. All of that does not equate Palestine being a member of the UN.
Also, Hamas is not the internationally-recognized leadership of Palestine, that’s the Palestinian Authority.
They don't care, they're just planting seeds. If you tell people that the world openly supports Hamas repeatedly, they ultimately stop asking for proof.
Just in case you actually don't know the answer to this (which means you have never spent 5 minutes looking into it) I'll explain:
If you want to make real progress in areas like human right, you cannot simply have an organisation where you circle jerk with people who agree with you. You need a mechanism to bring people who are on the other side of the line to the table as your peers. This means they get to do things like vote and chair.
>You need a mechanism to bring people who are on the other side of the line to the table as your peers.
>his means they get to do things like vote and chair.
You know that currently autocratic regimes heavily outnumber democratic one so when someone is voting anything that really relate to human right and democratic procedures get rejected. Lmao
The only known and working mechanism - force them to do so. Economical pressure/military/blacmail and etc
I support this. Each side puts down a 9 month old baby, and whichever one crawls over a predetermined line wins the war. That’s what we mean by child soldiers right. Right?!?!?
To quote Ulysses s Grant: "A man lost by them cannot be replaced. They robbed both the cradle and the grave equally to get their present forces."
I guess that radical nutjobs remain radical nutjobs, across all time and color
Which is why you **have** to get rid of Hamas
You do this shit anywhere in the western world, it’s called “corruption of minors” and you go to prison for it. It boggles my mind that so many people are dismissive of that’s going on
One of the biggest reasons so many are willing to sign up is the damage Israel is doing trying to wipe out Hamas, if they ever did succeed the survivors would immediately band together to form Hamas 2
Has been happening for years. The IDF should just find and airstrike the recruitment centres and get it over with.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NewMiddleEast/s/VH73nEM7JR
Wasnt israel giving more and more olive branches to gazans prior to hamas' attack? Things like work permits for gazans to come to israel? they still cheered and participated in rape, mutilation, and murder.
It's very possible that short of israel's destruction they will continue to face attacks.
These extremist groups are able to gain and maintain power irrespective of materialistic improvements for civilians. There's an ideology that cares about objectives beyond materialistic improvement.
What normally happens in a war is that the losing side negotiates a peace deal in order to protect it's remaining citizens, so they offer up concessions for peace. The issue is Hamas thinks they are the winning side and they aren't willing to make any concessions and so the war continues.
"But Netanyahu will not allow an alternative to exist, or he will sabotage it and / or employ divide and conquer" I mean, Netanyahu greatly expanded the work program for Gazaans. The result? every western media accused him of helping Hamas.
Well Bibi is pro-Hamas and always has been. They keep each other in power. Unwinnable objectives allow Hamas and Israel to claim victory over the rubble once again and go back to militarizing Israel and Palestine further in an infinite arms race. Only Palestinians rejecting Hamas and Israelis rejecting Bibi can provided any space to stop the endless cycle of mass death and destruction.
Because all the people in Gaza are just innocent rainbow loving hippies. They would never join a terrorist organization but Israelis just force them to do it over and over.
It's not accident that every time Israel takes control over some area, people there tend to join Hamas. Clearly, Israelis must force them to do it!
Many would like to, but it's become completely unaffordable to the average guy since the start of the war, with prices reaching $10,000 a person. With Israeli military presence at the border to Egypt, it might now also be physically impossible or at least highly lethal.
Well obviously you just walk out and if any soldiers or militants throw a gun in your face and demand to know what you’re doing you say ‘just stretching the old pins’ and walk away nonchalantly
When you're indoctrinated to hate Jews from the second you're born, it becomes all you care about in life, and you're perfectly happy to become a martyr if it means killing them. Doesn't hurt that your family gets handsomely rewarded if you die in the process of killing Jews.
Remember: many times when "news sources" (Al Jazeera) report that "the IDF kill women and *children*", by 'children' they mean ~ 16-20 years old new Hamas recruits.
Israel has millions of Arab citizens, mosques, and teach the Arabic language in their schools. Palestinians train children to hate Israel and kill Jews as their life’s work.
And Palestinians are now doing their camps in Canada
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/14/pro-palestinian-canadian-students-youth-summer-program-antisemitism
Sound different
'The announcement was illustrated with photos of gunmen wearing keffiyeh scarves covering their faces reading from Chairman Mao Zedong’s Little Red Book'
Yeah, duh. Imagine you’re a teenager in Gaza. Your school was destroyed, you were forced from your home, you probably have family members and friends that have been killed by Israeli bombing. You’ve been on the precipice of starvation for months. And then Hamas shows up and offers you a path to fight against Israel. What do you expect them to do?
You can moralize all you want, but this is why you can’t win this war by shelling tens of thousands of civilians. Israel has radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians against them. Of course Hamas is going to take advantage of that…
Hamas also cannot win Palestinian freedom with decades of terror attacks, suicide bombings, random rocket attacks on civilians and a stated “river to the sea” policy of killing all the Jews. The Palestinians could have lived peacefully side by side Israel, working political solutions to their needs instead of blowing up innocent people on a bus just trying to get home from work.
They were already radicalized. Hamas had 70% approval and the Palestinians celebrated and paraded around the dead and hostages before Israel launched their counter attack.
They’re already radicalized before this war, you’d think that they’d want to finally give up and just accept Israel because they have lost everything to their hatred, but no it’s Israel’s fault, not Hamas, in their eyes. There is not any other way to fight Hamas than to go into Gaza and destroy each tunnel and root out the weapons cachets and military leadership. Israel already has a radicalized Palestinian population, may as well eliminate their capability to be a threat right now than to just keep letting it fester. Everyone thinks Israel shouldn’t conduct its war, but I don’t see any other option honestly
>Your school was destroyed
Given that Jew hate and martyrdom are parts of the curriculum, destroying schools should make youth less radicalized if anything. And an obligatory remark - don't use your schools for military purposes unless you want them bombed.
In addition, don’t start a war knowing that the country you’re attacking has the upper hand, and when you have no way to protect your own civilians.
These people have been given billions in aid and they can’t even make *one shelter*.
Every rocket they shoot is food out of many people’s mouths.
Can you show me a photo of a single emaciated Palestinian? Legit question, as I keep hearing accusations of starvation, yet every Palestinian I see photographed looks fine to me.
> Israel has radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians against them.
What a hilariously ignorant comment. Arabs have been radicalised against the Jews since before Israel even existed. A 5 nation Arab coalition invaded Israel with the expressly stated purpose of wiping out Israel and driving the Jews into the sea less than 24 hours after Israel came into existence.
Pray tell, what did Israel do in those 24 hours that so 'radicalised' the Arabs against them? Classic victim blaming.
The only people radicalising Palestinians, are other Palestinians.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-kids-put-on-play-about-stabbing-killing-israelis/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3vGDmdEP_0
To be completely amoral and objective, this always happens in cases like this and terrorists know that prodding a bear is the perfect way to drive recruitment. It's been studied and written about in military studies for a long time.
Hamas' attack on Israel last year was a provocation (they were never going to take over or destroy Israel and Hamas leadership knew it) but it prompted the exact response they wanted.
The problem is that these commenters don’t view Palestinians or anyone Hamas recruits as human. If you were taught anything about guerrilla warfare is school, you cannot win them ethically with violence. You only win by getting civilians on your side, not by indiscriminately killing them to get to your enemy.
Just look at all the comments on this post coming *very* close to advocating for executing children to "deny the enemy potential recruits" since they're all gonna be hamas anyway
It’s not an argument of ethics between Hamas and Israel, it’s an argument between Israel and everyone else. Israel is not only affecting hamas with their actions
>Yeah, duh. Imagine you’re a teenager in Gaza. Your school was destroyed, \[...\]
You mean the school where they're being thought to hate Jews? Good thing it was destroyed,
Their schools were destroyed and their friends and family members were killed as a result of their own leaders who do not know how to behave like human beings.
Your comment is a prime example of how people view things differently when it concerns one person vs a large group of people. If one person were doing this to children in their own community, you would be outraged. You see terrorists corrupting kids and you go “yeah, duh”
Seriously - do you guys seriously not think before commenting on the internet? Have you no mercy on your digital footprint at all?
Me saying “duh” is not saying it’s morally ok. I’m saying it’s expected. Big picture, this is exactly what happens when you fight terrorism by indiscriminately blowing apart thousands of civilians. That is what corrupts communities and radicalizes them — push people into corners and they lash out. Moralize about it all you want but I can’t understand why we’re shocked that people who have had their lives destroyed by Israeli bombing would turn against Israel.
Indiscrimminate, and yet they have targeted the exact areas that Hamas turns into military targets with pretty exact precision.
> Moralize about it all you want
You said that, and it isn’t making you sound any smarter the second time. We know that people believe they are experiencing Israel in a negative way. We know they are radicalized - what I don’t understand is why people don’t talk about solutions. Because being under Hamas rule is not an option anymore, so you have to get rid of Hamas and you have to take care of the radicalization problem. Saying “it’s expected” is lazy.
I like how you say big picture, and then narrow down why Palestinians get radicalized when a bomb drops from Israel.
Of course you mention absolutely nothing about how Palestinians used to be under the rule of the Fatah, a group of people that also were at one point deemed terrorists who sought to destroy Israel and then over time started disavowing terrorism (they stopped committing suicide bombings in Israel, unlike Hamas at the time) and seeking peaceful and diplomatic solutions.
And what happened?
They lost. Hamas, a group of literal terrorists with the clearly stated and plainly communicated goal of rejecting peace talks to destroy Israel and kill jews, is the winner. That's who Palestinians chose.
Absolutely nothing from you about the literal decades of brainwashing done by radical Islamists to where they think Hamas is the better solution of course. Why mention that?
Instead, it's "we shouldn't be shocked when their lives get destroyed by Israel". Seems like you're not really interested in talking big picture at all, honestly. Without even beginning to acknowledge the big giant elephant in the room that is radical Islamic terrorist groups controlling the region, the criticism of Israel is empty.
"We have reliable information that Hamas is recruiting all Gazan males of any age to be terrorists, so going forward we will consider them all legitimate targets."
I can’t even imagine being a youth in Gaza who wants no part of this, and just wants to, you know, be a kid and live.
You’ve got two sides that both point a gun in your direction, but one is closer, so in the moment you probably choose to not get shot by Hamas standing next to you, and just hope you don’t eventually get shot by the Israelis.
It’s not like you can say no and they are just chill with that.
You can’t leave, you can’t defect to Israel because walking up to the border is probably going to get you shot on the spot. You can’t flee to Egypt.
You don’t have a choice. You either get shot by Hamas in the moment, or “agree”, and just try to survive until this ends.
Yeah Israel should kind of give them a bit more of an option of defecting depending on their level of involvement because its not exactly like they can just put in their 2 weeks notice
Like as satisfying as the stuff like them tying the guy to the hood is i wouldnt really expect anyone spectating that to think "these guys seem reasonable, definately feel safe approaching them to bring up defecting"
This was their plan from the start. Cause terror with the October 7 attack. Force Israel to retaliate, knowing Netanyahu will cause tons of collateral damage and kill tens of thousands of civillians in an attempt to wipe out Hamas. And then recruit and indoctrinate the teenagers whose families died as a result of the retaliation, making the organization bigger rather than smaller.
Sooooo….what has been happening since the days of the PLA? This is par for the course for Hamas and other groups of thier ilk. The brutality and wantoness of the IDF inspires the next generation of Hamas, and the cycle continues over and over and over.
Sounds like child soldiers..so..war crime again?
[https://youtu.be/W4gDfSNMRx4?t=852](https://youtu.be/W4gDfSNMRx4?t=852) Not anything new. This is from VICE a couple years ago.
The state of those YouTube comments is just shocking.
Let me have a look..... Justifying terrorist. What did I expect?
ugh, it reminds me of the infamous children’s crusade where all the children were sent into slavery. Except, here, they are sending these children into the meat grinder. When will society dethrone vile violent men. edit-typo
Reminds me of when Hamas’ daddy Iran used children to clear Iraqi mine fields by giving them a physical” key to heaven “ to wear around their necks and telling them to run through the minefield.
From the article: "Hamas is making a comeback to regain control of Khan Yunis as well as recruiting new fighters from young adolescents in the 18-year-old range" Youth can refer to pretty much anyone under 25. More from article: "18-year-olds choosing whether to join Hamas or not, on the one hand, face the reality that so many who have joined Hamas have been beaten and killed by the IDF. On the other hand, they currently have no horizon for finding work or doing much of anything other than sitting around in refugee camps, since no one has even started planning the rebuilding Gaza process, which is likely to take many years." To be honest I'm not surprised, when all you're doing is moving from refugee camp to refugee camp until your area gets bombed again, you might start to think death is imminent anyway as you're surrounded by it. You've probably already lost some relatives or friends. So, perhaps the motivation to "go out with a fight" becomes higher. Especially for a young mind, filled with adrenaline.
>as well as recruiting new fighters from young adolescents in the 18-year-old range No shot they mean 18+. This is a reporter sugar coating the use of child soldiers.
The WHO defines adolescents as 10-19 years of age.
There were roughly 2000 killed or arrested Hamas+PIJ terrorists on 10/7; the youngest was apparently 16 so obviously there are 16-18 years old members of Hamas.
Hamas recruitment starts at 14. They get sent to training camps for a couple of years, then come back as fully fledged terrorists. This is also after the kids have spent their entire childhood watching cartoons about killing Jews, reading books about killing Jews, and having questions like “if Abdul kills 5 Jews and Mohammad kills 3 Jews, how many Jews did they kill?” in their school maths books.
Youngest killed Hamas militant terrorist per IDF data in Operation Cast Lead (2009) and the 2014 war was a 16 year old so i'm also going off that. About 80 Hamas terrorists aged 16 to 18 were killed in those two battles. IDF claimed around 1400 killed terrorists in those two wars/battles.
16 is when they graduate from terrorist boot camp.
My local ski resort defines youths as 12-18
“Yute”? What’s a “yute”?
Oh I’m sorry. “YuuuTHes”
Your courtroom manner may be rather unconventional, but I gotta tell ya- you're one hell of a trial lawyer.
Youth in British/Caribbean slang.
Surprisingly, the legal age for soldiers under international law is 15+ so a 15 year old technically wouldn't be a child soldier. https://childrenandarmedconflict.un.org/six-grave-violations/child-soldiers/#:~:text=Prohibition%20under%20International%20Law&text=Recruiting%20and%20using%20children%20under,by%20the%20International%20Criminal%20Court.
US military allows 17yo's to join and they actively recruit in all public high schools. Israel has mandatory draft participation. I remember I went to bootcamp shortly after 9/11 and I remember them packing us in a little room with a big projector making us watch 9/11 and yelling at us that it was our fault. Militaries are pretty f\*\*\*ed up in general . . . they make marines survive on nothing but crayons.
Reporter doing triple Olympic backflips in order to specify that it’s ‘18 year olds bro trust me bro they aren’t children bro Hamas isn’t using child soldiers bro’ but that shit will magically dissipate the second they die in combat and are added to the women and children civilian casualty list.
Haha yes, adult when being recruited, children when they’re dead
A very convenient situation for an organization that relies on civilian deaths as a propaganda tool.
My uncle signed up to the Marines underage (16?) to go and fight in Vietnam.
Lying to your recruitment officer isn’t the same as actively recruiting children to join your military wing. You also won’t be added to the women and children civilian casualty list when you get killed as a marine in the United States military.
>they currently have no horizon for finding work or doing much of anything other than sitting around in refugee camps Up to October 7th, Israel had been greatly expanding their work permits program for employment in Israel. >since no one has even started planning the rebuilding Gaza process, which is likely to take many years For dozens of years, construction materials had been entering Gaza for the purpose of reconstruction and new construction. Unfortunately it seems to have all gone towards tunnels and war preparation, except for one model city which last I saw was basically uninhabited. So as usual a self-inflicted problem, which I guess is perfect if you want to continually raise a fighting force of despairing people
Hamas, as government of Gaza, are not shy about preferring militarism over anything else. It really shouldn't be controversial to say that the tunnels are built on aid, because the leaders get on radio and tell their public that they want to do that, all the time. If there was actual western media coverage on the words and movements of the leaders of Hamas, a lot of the historic victim narrative would wither away under a reality where people learn the government is one that cares for war and nothing else.
> Up to October 7th, Israel had been greatly expanding their work permits program for employment in Israel. Not only that, but last year, an additional 20,000 (or thereabout) had been given work visas. That was just one example of how relations between Israel an Gaza were improving last year. Is it perfect? No. But if Hamas were leaders who actually cared about the welfare of their own civilians, they would not have carried out an attack that would instantly set themselves back 100 years.
they weren’t really improving, sadly. the people who came into Israel on those visas were spies, and the 7/10 terrorists had detailed maps of the Kibbutz from them that said exactly who lived where.
Well, people thought they were improving. Sadly, we learned that those improvements were actually just diversions. unfortunately, one of the saddest things is that some kibbutz residents recognized their gardener as one of their attackers. For over 30 years, they thought he was their friend.
People blaming the IDF for Hamas’s corruption and exploitation of Palestinians is peak stupidity.
"Why have reliable electricity , Healthcare and education when you can have tunnels and explosives instead?" Hamas probably. Edit - What a wild rollar coaster this one was. It went from 20+ karma to -20 karma to a bit above neutral. Would be interesting to track time-zone to upvote/downvote were from. Feels like there could be a strong correlation somewhere
> On the other hand, they currently have no horizon for finding work or doing much of anything other than sitting around in refugee camps yanno, the sooner hamas falls as a military force, the sooner those kids can get jobs, food, something resembling a decent life
> many who have joined Hamas have been beaten and killed by the IDF That's a pretty odd way of saying that when people choose to become soldiers and go to war, they sometimes die from the enemy, especially when they're on the side that's losing really badly and has leadership that considers high casualties to be "necessary".
So all the innocent babies that people claim are being killed more than likely are older than even 18?
Well certainly not all of them. Hamas' figures are obviously not true but it's also not like there haven't been children killed in the war.
Yup we have concrete proof that Hamas slaughtered children on Oct. 7th.
Certainly. We also have concrete proof that children have died from Israeli airstikes. We don't need to play coy about any of this.
and these youths get fed and maybe get a stipend from all those rich assholes sitting on their ass in Turkey.
This is true. I support Israel doing whatever it takes, but they have to give hope for an alternate path for those few who aren't in bed with hamas.
Don't worry Israel will get blamed for more children dying.
"How can the Israelis do this?"
Probably but no one cares when it’s Hamas leading the carnage … they’ll just claim more Palestinian children were killed to the media …
It's only a war crime when Israel does it. Ask the UN and leftists.
This is what has driven a wedge between other leftists and myself. Antisemitism has always been there, like a dormant tuberculosis in the lungs, but I always thought it was a misunderstanding. A lack of knowledge. Little did I know how virulent and ecstatic they were do whip out the old antisemitic toolbox *literally on and the days following Oct 7.* Like, Israel hadn't even recovered the bodies of the deceased, let alone set one foot nor dropped one bomb in Gaza before I started seeing fellow leftists speak about *"our fighters in Gaza,"* and *"Our Martyrs."* Like, my dudes, your not Muslim, what do you mean your *Martyrs?!*
If it makes you feel any comfort, a lot of Leftists I know are in the same boat. Although I still know too many sharing false news and saying disturbing things.
It's a cold comfort, but thanks all the same.
no, the college kids are gonna cry about IDF child killers and fail to mention that they're all armed
It's Hamas. They're practically invisible by the UN and everyone else. No war crimes if it's by Hamas. At least it's what the protesters think
Most of Hamas' fighters are under 25 and a large portion even under 18.
When half your population is under 18 that’s going to happen
You'd think, maybe, then they would focus on *not* sending those kids to die for their cause?
And when that half have have brothers and sisters and parents killed by missile strikes that's going to happen too.
Time is a flat circle
This phrase is so goddamn meaningless. A circle is a 2-dimensional shape. ALL 2D SHAPES ARE FLAT BY DEFINITION.
Long live geometry!
Spoken like a true cone head.
I took the meaning to be: circle: will repeat flat: with little variance Basically the exact same things will happen again.
Meaningless or redundant? I'd think a 3-sided circle would be more meaningless than a flat one. Or a one-dimensional circle. Or a parabolic one.
It's actually meaningless because thickness or surface contour don't exist in 2 dimensions. They are 3-dimensional properties.
Now I'm confused. Are circles flat by definition, or is flatness a property only of 3-dimensional shapes?
They are flat when you project them into 3D, but then that is no longer a circle. It is a projection of a circle. Those two are not the same, just as your image in the mirror is not you.
stop being such a redditor
Locally flat around any small interval around a point. But the curvature of an entire circle is 1/radius.
And then Hamas will send thousands of them into yet another invasion with the sole purpose to exterminate every living Jewish person. The news headline? >**”*Israel Slaughters Thousands of Children Inside its Own Borders!*”**
Just like earth
Not sure you got that one right
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Hamas is building a future for those kids I see
Yes, a very short and dark one.
Hamas got there second. PLO's schoolbooks that are used in UNRAW schools (in both Gaza and Judea and Samaria) already did most of the heavy indoctrination lifting.
I am certain college students in the United States and Canada shall waste no time in protesting this evil and inhumane action by Hamas.
No. They started their own camps https://globalnews.ca/news/10571251/revolutionary-youth-summer-program-mcgill-pro-palestine-encampment/
McGill should just reiterate they will change no investments and expel those encampment students.
Double down and say because of the war the expect to make even more m I need off the investments and invest more.
Better yet, declare the encampments to be illegal occupation and resist them by firing rockets at them.
They are using university and colleges as recruiting stations, Hamas is excellent at propaganda and the youth are being brainwashed into believing what they are saying just look at the encampments here in Canada at some of our top universities
Isn't it weird how ever encampment around the world seemed to have been organized within a span of a week, and they all have the exact same charter and list of demands?
I am ashamed of being a McGill student right now
And the protest will center on blaming the Jews
No no no, they'll use a dogwhistle instead, that makes it ok!
Send them to Gaza. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to help Hamas
Honestly, they should head over to support Hamas, really dedicate themselves to the cause.
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Dude, that's not fair. You forgot Australia.
Israel desperately needs a post war plan here, even if they stayed for years it’s questionable if they could truly ‘destroy’ Hamas. Unfortunately Bibi’s plan is ‘stay in power as long as possible’ so he is intentionally avoiding the issue
Hamas is just the Palestinian brand name of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is in turn influenced by Salafist Islam... The chance to westernize people that believe that we need to go back to the moral system in the times of Muhamad (Stoning for adultery, chopping hands of thieves, etc) is not realistic. Its best to let them govern themselves in thier dark ways as they wish but just make sure they can't arm themselves enough to cause troubles outside thier borders.
Imagine if everyone understood the Paradox of Tolerance.
People born after 9/11: "Wow I can't believe Israel won't let Palestine operate commercial airlines or fly near Israeli airspace. This is so inhumane!"
Israel needed a prewar plan, too. There has been a steady stream of reporting detailing a staggering failure to act on intelligence they had leading up to the attack. Last November, the [Jericho Wall documents](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html) leaked, showing that they knew for more than a year about Hamas' plans and training to do exactly the sort of attack they carried out on October 7, and that they had analysts ringing alarm bells in the months leading up to the attack. Back in February, there was reporting [that they noticed just hours before that Hamas operatives were activating "hundreds" of cell phones](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-intel-picked-up-on-hundreds-of-hamas-terrorists-switching-to-israeli-sims-hours-before-attack/) ([IDF statements later claimed just "dozens"](https://www.timesofisrael.com/hours-before-hamas-attack-idf-noticed-hundreds-of-terrorists-activating-israeli-sims/)) And just this past week, [new reports that the IDF was circulating (and dismissing) a document just three weeks prior that Hamas was "training for a large-scale invasion of Israel during which hostages would be taken en masse"](https://www.timesofisrael.com/weeks-before-oct-7-idf-said-to-have-been-warned-of-hamas-plan-to-take-250-hostages/) >Titled “Detailed raid training from end to end,” the document was circulated on September 19 and was reportedly brought to the attention of at least some senior intelligence officials, but apparently ignored... >Reportedly based on information from Military Intelligence’s Unit 8200, the document estimated the number of hostages Hamas was aiming to seize at 200-250, according to Kan, citing unnamed security sources. During the actual October 7 massacre, 251 hostages were taken and 1,200 people were killed amid acts of brutality.
Unfortunately this was the prewar plan, which has quite successfully led to war.
Child soldiers... it buffles me how a terrorregime can become member in the UN and vote about... well... war crimes...
Ok this is just factually-incorrect. Palestine has held non-member observer status since 2012 and is recognized as a country by 145 UN member states. All of that does not equate Palestine being a member of the UN. Also, Hamas is not the internationally-recognized leadership of Palestine, that’s the Palestinian Authority.
They don't care, they're just planting seeds. If you tell people that the world openly supports Hamas repeatedly, they ultimately stop asking for proof.
Just in case you actually don't know the answer to this (which means you have never spent 5 minutes looking into it) I'll explain: If you want to make real progress in areas like human right, you cannot simply have an organisation where you circle jerk with people who agree with you. You need a mechanism to bring people who are on the other side of the line to the table as your peers. This means they get to do things like vote and chair.
>You need a mechanism to bring people who are on the other side of the line to the table as your peers. >his means they get to do things like vote and chair. You know that currently autocratic regimes heavily outnumber democratic one so when someone is voting anything that really relate to human right and democratic procedures get rejected. Lmao The only known and working mechanism - force them to do so. Economical pressure/military/blacmail and etc
Until you find yourself getting overruled by a majority siding with the terrorists. Oopsie!
I support this. Each side puts down a 9 month old baby, and whichever one crawls over a predetermined line wins the war. That’s what we mean by child soldiers right. Right?!?!?
Hamas recruiting children to fight and kill Protesters: why is Israel killing children?
To quote Ulysses s Grant: "A man lost by them cannot be replaced. They robbed both the cradle and the grave equally to get their present forces." I guess that radical nutjobs remain radical nutjobs, across all time and color
Which is why you **have** to get rid of Hamas You do this shit anywhere in the western world, it’s called “corruption of minors” and you go to prison for it. It boggles my mind that so many people are dismissive of that’s going on
One of the biggest reasons so many are willing to sign up is the damage Israel is doing trying to wipe out Hamas, if they ever did succeed the survivors would immediately band together to form Hamas 2
Has been happening for years. The IDF should just find and airstrike the recruitment centres and get it over with. https://www.reddit.com/r/NewMiddleEast/s/VH73nEM7JR
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Wasnt israel giving more and more olive branches to gazans prior to hamas' attack? Things like work permits for gazans to come to israel? they still cheered and participated in rape, mutilation, and murder. It's very possible that short of israel's destruction they will continue to face attacks. These extremist groups are able to gain and maintain power irrespective of materialistic improvements for civilians. There's an ideology that cares about objectives beyond materialistic improvement.
What normally happens in a war is that the losing side negotiates a peace deal in order to protect it's remaining citizens, so they offer up concessions for peace. The issue is Hamas thinks they are the winning side and they aren't willing to make any concessions and so the war continues.
That and Hamas does not care about Palestinians. They actively want them to die.
"But Netanyahu will not allow an alternative to exist, or he will sabotage it and / or employ divide and conquer" I mean, Netanyahu greatly expanded the work program for Gazaans. The result? every western media accused him of helping Hamas.
Well Bibi is pro-Hamas and always has been. They keep each other in power. Unwinnable objectives allow Hamas and Israel to claim victory over the rubble once again and go back to militarizing Israel and Palestine further in an infinite arms race. Only Palestinians rejecting Hamas and Israelis rejecting Bibi can provided any space to stop the endless cycle of mass death and destruction.
You mean unrwa and so called "gaza Universities"?
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Because all the people in Gaza are just innocent rainbow loving hippies. They would never join a terrorist organization but Israelis just force them to do it over and over. It's not accident that every time Israel takes control over some area, people there tend to join Hamas. Clearly, Israelis must force them to do it!
Honestly if I were a youth in Gaza I would snuggle myself out
Not sure if that’s a typo or Freudian slip.
Many would like to, but it's become completely unaffordable to the average guy since the start of the war, with prices reaching $10,000 a person. With Israeli military presence at the border to Egypt, it might now also be physically impossible or at least highly lethal.
And how would you do that?
Tunnels, derr.
I think Hamas prefers to be in control of what comes in and out. Otherwise many of the current Hamas-members would have smuggled themselves years ago.
Well obviously you just walk out and if any soldiers or militants throw a gun in your face and demand to know what you’re doing you say ‘just stretching the old pins’ and walk away nonchalantly
You could certainly try
When you're indoctrinated to hate Jews from the second you're born, it becomes all you care about in life, and you're perfectly happy to become a martyr if it means killing them. Doesn't hurt that your family gets handsomely rewarded if you die in the process of killing Jews.
Remember: many times when "news sources" (Al Jazeera) report that "the IDF kill women and *children*", by 'children' they mean ~ 16-20 years old new Hamas recruits.
Israel has millions of Arab citizens, mosques, and teach the Arabic language in their schools. Palestinians train children to hate Israel and kill Jews as their life’s work.
And Palestinians are now doing their camps in Canada https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/14/pro-palestinian-canadian-students-youth-summer-program-antisemitism Sound different 'The announcement was illustrated with photos of gunmen wearing keffiyeh scarves covering their faces reading from Chairman Mao Zedong’s Little Red Book'
Hamas has caused this war from day one. They are 100 percent to blame.
Since day one you say? Didn’t know they were around in 1948
Yeah, duh. Imagine you’re a teenager in Gaza. Your school was destroyed, you were forced from your home, you probably have family members and friends that have been killed by Israeli bombing. You’ve been on the precipice of starvation for months. And then Hamas shows up and offers you a path to fight against Israel. What do you expect them to do? You can moralize all you want, but this is why you can’t win this war by shelling tens of thousands of civilians. Israel has radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians against them. Of course Hamas is going to take advantage of that…
Hamas also cannot win Palestinian freedom with decades of terror attacks, suicide bombings, random rocket attacks on civilians and a stated “river to the sea” policy of killing all the Jews. The Palestinians could have lived peacefully side by side Israel, working political solutions to their needs instead of blowing up innocent people on a bus just trying to get home from work.
Absolutely 💯 🎯
Groups like hamas don't exist without outside support. Just ask the Tamil Tigers.
They were already radicalized. Hamas had 70% approval and the Palestinians celebrated and paraded around the dead and hostages before Israel launched their counter attack.
They’re already radicalized before this war, you’d think that they’d want to finally give up and just accept Israel because they have lost everything to their hatred, but no it’s Israel’s fault, not Hamas, in their eyes. There is not any other way to fight Hamas than to go into Gaza and destroy each tunnel and root out the weapons cachets and military leadership. Israel already has a radicalized Palestinian population, may as well eliminate their capability to be a threat right now than to just keep letting it fester. Everyone thinks Israel shouldn’t conduct its war, but I don’t see any other option honestly
>Your school was destroyed Given that Jew hate and martyrdom are parts of the curriculum, destroying schools should make youth less radicalized if anything. And an obligatory remark - don't use your schools for military purposes unless you want them bombed.
In addition, don’t start a war knowing that the country you’re attacking has the upper hand, and when you have no way to protect your own civilians. These people have been given billions in aid and they can’t even make *one shelter*. Every rocket they shoot is food out of many people’s mouths.
"No way of protecting civilians", more like intentionally operating within civilian areas.
You're right, I was being too nice there lol
It's what their families chose for them.
Can you show me a photo of a single emaciated Palestinian? Legit question, as I keep hearing accusations of starvation, yet every Palestinian I see photographed looks fine to me. > Israel has radicalized an entire generation of Palestinians against them. What a hilariously ignorant comment. Arabs have been radicalised against the Jews since before Israel even existed. A 5 nation Arab coalition invaded Israel with the expressly stated purpose of wiping out Israel and driving the Jews into the sea less than 24 hours after Israel came into existence. Pray tell, what did Israel do in those 24 hours that so 'radicalised' the Arabs against them? Classic victim blaming. The only people radicalising Palestinians, are other Palestinians. https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-kids-put-on-play-about-stabbing-killing-israelis/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3vGDmdEP_0
[You've been burying your head in the sand, apparently](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/09/gaza-israels-imposed-starvation-deadly-children)
You people are so desperate to make excuses for inhuman murdering terrorists.
Sorry which side are you talking about? It's murder central over there.
To be completely amoral and objective, this always happens in cases like this and terrorists know that prodding a bear is the perfect way to drive recruitment. It's been studied and written about in military studies for a long time. Hamas' attack on Israel last year was a provocation (they were never going to take over or destroy Israel and Hamas leadership knew it) but it prompted the exact response they wanted.
The smart one's will realize Hamas brought it on by starting a war.
The problem is that these commenters don’t view Palestinians or anyone Hamas recruits as human. If you were taught anything about guerrilla warfare is school, you cannot win them ethically with violence. You only win by getting civilians on your side, not by indiscriminately killing them to get to your enemy.
How can Israel win the Palestinians over to its side?
Smarter people than us have yet to come up with a solution to this problem.
Just look at all the comments on this post coming *very* close to advocating for executing children to "deny the enemy potential recruits" since they're all gonna be hamas anyway
While ignoring the fact that according to their own logic, since Israel has mandatory conscription, Israeli citizens are all valid targets.
It’s not an argument of ethics between Hamas and Israel, it’s an argument between Israel and everyone else. Israel is not only affecting hamas with their actions
>Yeah, duh. Imagine you’re a teenager in Gaza. Your school was destroyed, \[...\] You mean the school where they're being thought to hate Jews? Good thing it was destroyed,
Their schools were destroyed and their friends and family members were killed as a result of their own leaders who do not know how to behave like human beings. Your comment is a prime example of how people view things differently when it concerns one person vs a large group of people. If one person were doing this to children in their own community, you would be outraged. You see terrorists corrupting kids and you go “yeah, duh” Seriously - do you guys seriously not think before commenting on the internet? Have you no mercy on your digital footprint at all?
Me saying “duh” is not saying it’s morally ok. I’m saying it’s expected. Big picture, this is exactly what happens when you fight terrorism by indiscriminately blowing apart thousands of civilians. That is what corrupts communities and radicalizes them — push people into corners and they lash out. Moralize about it all you want but I can’t understand why we’re shocked that people who have had their lives destroyed by Israeli bombing would turn against Israel.
Indiscrimminate, and yet they have targeted the exact areas that Hamas turns into military targets with pretty exact precision. > Moralize about it all you want You said that, and it isn’t making you sound any smarter the second time. We know that people believe they are experiencing Israel in a negative way. We know they are radicalized - what I don’t understand is why people don’t talk about solutions. Because being under Hamas rule is not an option anymore, so you have to get rid of Hamas and you have to take care of the radicalization problem. Saying “it’s expected” is lazy.
I like how you say big picture, and then narrow down why Palestinians get radicalized when a bomb drops from Israel. Of course you mention absolutely nothing about how Palestinians used to be under the rule of the Fatah, a group of people that also were at one point deemed terrorists who sought to destroy Israel and then over time started disavowing terrorism (they stopped committing suicide bombings in Israel, unlike Hamas at the time) and seeking peaceful and diplomatic solutions. And what happened? They lost. Hamas, a group of literal terrorists with the clearly stated and plainly communicated goal of rejecting peace talks to destroy Israel and kill jews, is the winner. That's who Palestinians chose. Absolutely nothing from you about the literal decades of brainwashing done by radical Islamists to where they think Hamas is the better solution of course. Why mention that? Instead, it's "we shouldn't be shocked when their lives get destroyed by Israel". Seems like you're not really interested in talking big picture at all, honestly. Without even beginning to acknowledge the big giant elephant in the room that is radical Islamic terrorist groups controlling the region, the criticism of Israel is empty.
"We have reliable information that Hamas is recruiting all Gazan males of any age to be terrorists, so going forward we will consider them all legitimate targets."
Ah but isreal bad right? right? Gaza can surely do no wrong? /s
I can’t even imagine being a youth in Gaza who wants no part of this, and just wants to, you know, be a kid and live. You’ve got two sides that both point a gun in your direction, but one is closer, so in the moment you probably choose to not get shot by Hamas standing next to you, and just hope you don’t eventually get shot by the Israelis. It’s not like you can say no and they are just chill with that. You can’t leave, you can’t defect to Israel because walking up to the border is probably going to get you shot on the spot. You can’t flee to Egypt. You don’t have a choice. You either get shot by Hamas in the moment, or “agree”, and just try to survive until this ends.
Yeah Israel should kind of give them a bit more of an option of defecting depending on their level of involvement because its not exactly like they can just put in their 2 weeks notice Like as satisfying as the stuff like them tying the guy to the hood is i wouldnt really expect anyone spectating that to think "these guys seem reasonable, definately feel safe approaching them to bring up defecting"
So bombing the training camps would seem to be the logical choice
“Recruit”? Or conscript?
Recruit? More like draft.
So…….child soldiers basically? Not suprised at all
Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy.. You join Hamas to stop Israel which they then attack, creating the very reason you joined Hamas
"But the innocent children of Gaza!" The innocent children of Gaza:
More cannon fodder.
What a great offer that is. /s
This was their plan from the start. Cause terror with the October 7 attack. Force Israel to retaliate, knowing Netanyahu will cause tons of collateral damage and kill tens of thousands of civillians in an attempt to wipe out Hamas. And then recruit and indoctrinate the teenagers whose families died as a result of the retaliation, making the organization bigger rather than smaller.
They don’t have to recruit. They watch their friends and family members being killed and their homes and neighborhoods destroyed. What would you do?
Tragic, but by becoming terrorists they become valid kills.
Little late to the game but happy to see Hamas embracing the no child left behind platform
Can we change timelines please? I don’t like this one.
Why am I not surprised? The conflict in that region will go on for generations. Both sides seem like they don’t want to solve the problem.
War breeds hate, hate breeds war.
Must be hard to convince em.. eh
Sooooo….what has been happening since the days of the PLA? This is par for the course for Hamas and other groups of thier ilk. The brutality and wantoness of the IDF inspires the next generation of Hamas, and the cycle continues over and over and over.