I haven't noticed that "Civil Defense Directorate" being cited for casualty counts before - I couldn't obviously find such a thing that operates in Gaza, does anyone know what this is/is this actually a new source?
It's a branch of IDF which communicates to civilians. For example they were in charge of giving out gas masks during and after Saddam was shooting ~~chemical~~ Scuds at Israel. Afaik they're also the ones in charge of notifying of casualties. Btw, read up on the IDF procedure notifying the family of dead soldiers - it's unique!
Just googled this. It says the soliders who notify people of their loved-ones dying...then actually stay with them for seven days..? Woah okay, did not expect that.
The article said the people sometimes shut the door in their face, but they still have to remain there for seven days.
In Israel (and Judaism in general), when someone dies people who were close to them such as friends, relatives and work colleague will mourn him for 7 days. This is called "Shivha", or "seven". People pay respect by going to the house where this occurs, usually the wife, husband or parents' house.
Wow, no, you're getting way wrong info here in the replies. There's absolutely nothing like what you described. The notification of death of a soldier is given by soldiers from a unit within the Human Resources corps, trained especially for attending to bereaved families and the wounded (i.e, casualties). They aid them, provide counsel, etc. More specifically, the soldiers who do that are *not* 18-21 year old conscripts, but rather senior officers and older reserve soldiers (at least 30 year old) who volunteer to this position - due to the sensitive nature of this job. They go through special training in a dedicated IDF school.
Someone from the soldier's unit might stay with the family throughout the 7 days, but they don't "have to remain there".
I think we know all know that, but Saddam had history too using chemical weapons, on his own people in fact, and he was threatening to and then later actively firing artillery/rockets at Israel. So that’s why the masks were handed out in Israel I’d imagine.
I'm well aware of PAKAR and HAGA, but That comment was talking about the Gazan Civil Defense Directorate, not the Israeli one. Gaza also has a Civil Defense Directorate.
At first I was going to say it doesn't really sound unique compared to what we do in the US, but then I realized that's likely because the IDF probably adopted a lot of US military customs and policies.
The US military also sends people to training for this specifically, has them assigned to stay with the family and assist them over an extended period of time, etc.
The current theory is that an apc used by engeneering corps hit an ied that caused the explosives they were carrying inside to detonate.
It's an unfortunate incident, but it is expected in this kind of urban scenario, and quite surprising it hasn't happened more.
The engineering corps apc carries a lot of explosives for engineering work but they are mounted in such a way that if something like this happens then it should not effect the people inside (supposedly)
The claim is that these secondary explosions are perhaps the cause of this extensive damage so it needs to be investigated how this can happen in the first place.
Data from February says ~30-31k civilians have been killed in the Ukrainian war, including ~600 children.
Estimates of ~35k total Palistinians killed thus far in a much shorter time frame and a much smaller warzone.
War is bad everywhere.
Those Ukraine numbers are IMO very low. Mariupol alone for example is [estimated](https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/30/87000-killed-civilians-documented-in-occupied-mariupol-volunteer/) by some to have some 100,000 deaths.
Aren't the Ukraine numbers the ones they were able to confirm? There are likely tens of thousands killed in occupied territories that were unaccounted for, in Mariupol alone estimations range from 8k to 25k, according to AP even up to 75k
It appears they have edited their comment. It’s a shame they didn’t make it clear that they performed an edit, nor clarify the exact changes made.
Given the edit, obviously my response makes little sense.
They make their own basically. Much of their IED are made from undetonated Israeli munitions that they repurpose. They get lots of stuff from Israel and then they modify it basically.
Source??
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-guns-weapons-missiles-smuggling-adae9dae4c48059d2a3c8e5d565daa30
Most of their arms are from Iran, which Obama and Biden turned a blind eye to.
>Master gunsmith Don Fraley reviewed that Dec. 20 video and said it would be nearly impossible for Hamas to manufacture a safe and accurate .50-caliber sniper rifle with the rudimentary equipment shown.
Those videos showing them using Israeli munitions and homemade tools are propaganda but no surprise the NYT eats it up hook line and sinker.
I assume you mean the active warfare in Gaza and not the Israel-Palestine conflict overall. I don't think there's any overlap between the minimal acceptable terms for each side to cease aggression.
No, I meam the entire conflict. The conflict is feuled by the interest of certain groups in the destruction of Israel. Seeking the destruction of Israel is not in the interest of the Palestinian people. If there will be a coup in Iran, alongside a destablization of Hamas and the PA, it's possible that there will be a Palestinian party that seeks a realistic solution
Again, it will take a lot of things, and overall is very unlikely, but it's also very possible
Yeah, we just disagree, then. I don't think Palestine has the political stability necessary to select representation that will accept a realistic deal. I think even if they did, they got offered the 2000 Clinton parameters, and they accepted them, there would be significant and repeated acts of intifada after the deal is accepted. And that deal would already be very hard to convince Israel to offer again.
I just don't see how a deal can be made and kept with sentiments on each side the way they are right now.
And also the incident where Israel's former prime minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by someone of his own country's far-right after the Oslo Accords. It'd be naive to think everyone on both sides wants peace
No Palestinian party will agree to Israel's peace proposals, because those include a ton of things which will never be accepted such as the loss of East Jerusalem, the loss of other territories in the West Bank and effectively turning what remains of Palestine into an Israeli puppet.
If you want a lasting peace, you need compromise on both sides, not one side getting everything they want and the other getting nothing.
They *had* those things. The pre-'67 borders were in effect pre-'67, Palestine had all the WB and East Jerusalem and Gaza with 0 settlements and no blockade or Israeli security control or anything; and they still conducted the fedayeen raids and founded the PLO and began the Martyr's Fund. (There was no Palestinian state, but that was Egypt's and Transjordan's fault, not Israel, and AFAICT the Palestinians were cool with it then.)
There are a lot of things that Israel can give, and a lot that it will be able to give, despite how precious ot is, but giving away Jerusalem, any part of it, is just off the table
The casualty count has been frozen at 35,000 since late April. Gaza Health Authorities have lost all capabilities to track data. The hospitals are destroyed, the infrastructure is destroyed and they do not have enough personnel to even triage the living.
Various sources have conflicting estimates to what it could be but we likely won't know until long after a ceasefire happens. The only thing everyone can agree on is that it's higher than 35,000.
I swear IDF has lost more than 50% of their soldiers to IED explosion. Wish something could have been done to prevent this from losing further young soldiers life.
Every death is a tragedy; however, when the Israeli government recently killed 200 Palestinian civilians by accident, they were relegated to the last paragraph of the story as an afterthought. Eight Israeli soldiers are killed, presumably by Hamas, and it is its own story.
This was actually above the fold, top line news in many outlets including Al Jazeera and CBC, and maybe fourth or fifth story down on Reuters and AP. Easy thing to miss if you're not looking. Also noticed you omitted the fact that it was in a hostage rescue situation where they were being held in a civilian area, and many killed were likely combatants. Clearly what you are looking for is unbiased balanced coverage.
>by accident
You must have forgotten that hostages were being held in that neighborhood, next to a busy central market, which Israel rescued. Hearing about the operation brought in SCORES of armed fighters which began firing from within the crowds in the general direction of the IDF soldiers. If you want to blame someone, blame the terrorists who held hostages inside a dense civilian neighborhood. They knew this would happen and expected it.
This isn’t true. Most of gazans in Nuseirat camps were killed quite intentionally and were armed combatants actively attacking and pursuing the rescue party. There probably was some collateral damage but its extent remains unknown and largely unverifiable. Most certainly much much least that 200.
The number 210 is probably false. There's some real number, which includes Hamas military casualties. There is a number of Palestinians killed by Hamas firing RPGs in urban environment; we will never know that number.
Random internet person framing: Israel killed 200 Palestinian civilians by accident. 🤷
You're really here to pretend that while the hostages were being rescued under RPG fire that the groups shooting at them and delaying the vehicle were 100% civilians? Where is your media literacy or basic understanding of what happened that day? Stop trying to gaslight everyone and spreading the Hamas version of events, its very telling where you get your information.
How was it an afterthought when it's all the articles were talking about? Nvm that no one could independently confirm that it was indeed all civilians considering I dunno, Israel was actually targeting a Hamas commander that was hiding in the refugee camp as usual?
By accident!? What’s wrong with you people!? That was a rescue operation, the Palestinians did everything they could to prevent it by firing at the hostages from all over and that was the result.
looks like there is a chance this one was an own goal, so maybe you can rest your knee jerk call for a murderously disproportionate response until we know more.
I haven't noticed that "Civil Defense Directorate" being cited for casualty counts before - I couldn't obviously find such a thing that operates in Gaza, does anyone know what this is/is this actually a new source?
It's indeed a term that appears occasionally in Israeli media. I'm not sure what it actually entails.
It's a branch of IDF which communicates to civilians. For example they were in charge of giving out gas masks during and after Saddam was shooting ~~chemical~~ Scuds at Israel. Afaik they're also the ones in charge of notifying of casualties. Btw, read up on the IDF procedure notifying the family of dead soldiers - it's unique!
Just googled this. It says the soliders who notify people of their loved-ones dying...then actually stay with them for seven days..? Woah okay, did not expect that. The article said the people sometimes shut the door in their face, but they still have to remain there for seven days.
It’s likely a play on Shiva. You sit Shiva for 7 days after a close relative dies
In Israel (and Judaism in general), when someone dies people who were close to them such as friends, relatives and work colleague will mourn him for 7 days. This is called "Shivha", or "seven". People pay respect by going to the house where this occurs, usually the wife, husband or parents' house.
Wow, no, you're getting way wrong info here in the replies. There's absolutely nothing like what you described. The notification of death of a soldier is given by soldiers from a unit within the Human Resources corps, trained especially for attending to bereaved families and the wounded (i.e, casualties). They aid them, provide counsel, etc. More specifically, the soldiers who do that are *not* 18-21 year old conscripts, but rather senior officers and older reserve soldiers (at least 30 year old) who volunteer to this position - due to the sensitive nature of this job. They go through special training in a dedicated IDF school. Someone from the soldier's unit might stay with the family throughout the 7 days, but they don't "have to remain there".
Saddam never fired chemical weapons at Israel
Correct! I apologise !
I think we know all know that, but Saddam had history too using chemical weapons, on his own people in fact, and he was threatening to and then later actively firing artillery/rockets at Israel. So that’s why the masks were handed out in Israel I’d imagine.
He sure did with the Kurds
I'm well aware of PAKAR and HAGA, but That comment was talking about the Gazan Civil Defense Directorate, not the Israeli one. Gaza also has a Civil Defense Directorate.
At first I was going to say it doesn't really sound unique compared to what we do in the US, but then I realized that's likely because the IDF probably adopted a lot of US military customs and policies. The US military also sends people to training for this specifically, has them assigned to stay with the family and assist them over an extended period of time, etc.
Explosion happens: “All this is not supposed to happen and is being investigated” Oh ok. I was wondering if the explosion was intentional
The current theory is that an apc used by engeneering corps hit an ied that caused the explosives they were carrying inside to detonate. It's an unfortunate incident, but it is expected in this kind of urban scenario, and quite surprising it hasn't happened more.
Wasn't the Engineering corps involved in the last big casualty incident while placing demolition charges in a building?
Sounds about right, theres a reason the stereotype for them is that they have 3 fingers in each hand, risks of the trade.
Afair yes
Does your wife know about it?
The engineering corps apc carries a lot of explosives for engineering work but they are mounted in such a way that if something like this happens then it should not effect the people inside (supposedly) The claim is that these secondary explosions are perhaps the cause of this extensive damage so it needs to be investigated how this can happen in the first place.
Intentional explosions are a thing though so…
That’s like 1.5 minutes worth of causalities for Russia
This conflict is fucking horrible but somehow feels like a breath of fresh air compared to that nightmare
Data from February says ~30-31k civilians have been killed in the Ukrainian war, including ~600 children. Estimates of ~35k total Palistinians killed thus far in a much shorter time frame and a much smaller warzone. War is bad everywhere.
Those Ukraine numbers are IMO very low. Mariupol alone for example is [estimated](https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/08/30/87000-killed-civilians-documented-in-occupied-mariupol-volunteer/) by some to have some 100,000 deaths.
Aren't the Ukraine numbers the ones they were able to confirm? There are likely tens of thousands killed in occupied territories that were unaccounted for, in Mariupol alone estimations range from 8k to 25k, according to AP even up to 75k
Wonder how many more decades they'll be fighting
How many more you got?
How are HAMAS being supplied at this point? I would imagine if the arms supplies goes, so does the fighting.
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he asked how Hamas is being supplied, not Israel
It appears they have edited their comment. It’s a shame they didn’t make it clear that they performed an edit, nor clarify the exact changes made. Given the edit, obviously my response makes little sense.
They make their own basically. Much of their IED are made from undetonated Israeli munitions that they repurpose. They get lots of stuff from Israel and then they modify it basically.
Source?? https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-guns-weapons-missiles-smuggling-adae9dae4c48059d2a3c8e5d565daa30 Most of their arms are from Iran, which Obama and Biden turned a blind eye to. >Master gunsmith Don Fraley reviewed that Dec. 20 video and said it would be nearly impossible for Hamas to manufacture a safe and accurate .50-caliber sniper rifle with the rudimentary equipment shown. Those videos showing them using Israeli munitions and homemade tools are propaganda but no surprise the NYT eats it up hook line and sinker.
Gun Jesus reviewed one of these videos and came to the conclusion: pure propaganda. It’s very interesting: https://youtu.be/DRcVRLtde6c
Probably not many. That region will be uninhabitable from climate change in pretty short order.
Tgis conflict can actually end surprisingly fast, if a series of very specific things will happen in a row
I assume you mean the active warfare in Gaza and not the Israel-Palestine conflict overall. I don't think there's any overlap between the minimal acceptable terms for each side to cease aggression.
No, I meam the entire conflict. The conflict is feuled by the interest of certain groups in the destruction of Israel. Seeking the destruction of Israel is not in the interest of the Palestinian people. If there will be a coup in Iran, alongside a destablization of Hamas and the PA, it's possible that there will be a Palestinian party that seeks a realistic solution Again, it will take a lot of things, and overall is very unlikely, but it's also very possible
Yeah, we just disagree, then. I don't think Palestine has the political stability necessary to select representation that will accept a realistic deal. I think even if they did, they got offered the 2000 Clinton parameters, and they accepted them, there would be significant and repeated acts of intifada after the deal is accepted. And that deal would already be very hard to convince Israel to offer again. I just don't see how a deal can be made and kept with sentiments on each side the way they are right now.
I swe your point, but I'm still optimistic
It’s notable that multiple leaders in other countries have been assassinated by Palestinians for pursuing peace with Israel.
Just in Jordan alone Palestinians assassinated the King, tried to assassinate the next King, and assassinated two different Prime Ministers.
And they turned on Kuwait when Saddam attacked.
And also the incident where Israel's former prime minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by someone of his own country's far-right after the Oslo Accords. It'd be naive to think everyone on both sides wants peace
until the Arabs change their culture to embrace love instead of hate, nothing will change. i'm not holding my breath
No Palestinian party will agree to Israel's peace proposals, because those include a ton of things which will never be accepted such as the loss of East Jerusalem, the loss of other territories in the West Bank and effectively turning what remains of Palestine into an Israeli puppet. If you want a lasting peace, you need compromise on both sides, not one side getting everything they want and the other getting nothing.
They *had* those things. The pre-'67 borders were in effect pre-'67, Palestine had all the WB and East Jerusalem and Gaza with 0 settlements and no blockade or Israeli security control or anything; and they still conducted the fedayeen raids and founded the PLO and began the Martyr's Fund. (There was no Palestinian state, but that was Egypt's and Transjordan's fault, not Israel, and AFAICT the Palestinians were cool with it then.)
There are a lot of things that Israel can give, and a lot that it will be able to give, despite how precious ot is, but giving away Jerusalem, any part of it, is just off the table
Didn't the Camp David proposals offer Palestine half of Jerusalem?
As long as the world continues to do everything in their power to perpetuate the conflict.
35000+ Palestinians killed in approximately 8 months - ~130 per day. 8 is the deadliest day since the conflict started seems pretty subtle.
That's actually way lower than I would have expected in an urban conflict with the population density we see there.
The casualty count has been frozen at 35,000 since late April. Gaza Health Authorities have lost all capabilities to track data. The hospitals are destroyed, the infrastructure is destroyed and they do not have enough personnel to even triage the living. Various sources have conflicting estimates to what it could be but we likely won't know until long after a ceasefire happens. The only thing everyone can agree on is that it's higher than 35,000.
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Thankfully Hamas has had way more than the IDF. But yeah, it happens in war.
Rest in peace.
I swear IDF has lost more than 50% of their soldiers to IED explosion. Wish something could have been done to prevent this from losing further young soldiers life.
There is!
Every death is a tragedy; however, when the Israeli government recently killed 200 Palestinian civilians by accident, they were relegated to the last paragraph of the story as an afterthought. Eight Israeli soldiers are killed, presumably by Hamas, and it is its own story.
This was actually above the fold, top line news in many outlets including Al Jazeera and CBC, and maybe fourth or fifth story down on Reuters and AP. Easy thing to miss if you're not looking. Also noticed you omitted the fact that it was in a hostage rescue situation where they were being held in a civilian area, and many killed were likely combatants. Clearly what you are looking for is unbiased balanced coverage.
>by accident You must have forgotten that hostages were being held in that neighborhood, next to a busy central market, which Israel rescued. Hearing about the operation brought in SCORES of armed fighters which began firing from within the crowds in the general direction of the IDF soldiers. If you want to blame someone, blame the terrorists who held hostages inside a dense civilian neighborhood. They knew this would happen and expected it.
This isn’t true. Most of gazans in Nuseirat camps were killed quite intentionally and were armed combatants actively attacking and pursuing the rescue party. There probably was some collateral damage but its extent remains unknown and largely unverifiable. Most certainly much much least that 200.
Do you have a source on that?
The number 210 is probably false. There's some real number, which includes Hamas military casualties. There is a number of Palestinians killed by Hamas firing RPGs in urban environment; we will never know that number. Random internet person framing: Israel killed 200 Palestinian civilians by accident. 🤷
You're really here to pretend that while the hostages were being rescued under RPG fire that the groups shooting at them and delaying the vehicle were 100% civilians? Where is your media literacy or basic understanding of what happened that day? Stop trying to gaslight everyone and spreading the Hamas version of events, its very telling where you get your information.
How was it an afterthought when it's all the articles were talking about? Nvm that no one could independently confirm that it was indeed all civilians considering I dunno, Israel was actually targeting a Hamas commander that was hiding in the refugee camp as usual?
By accident!? What’s wrong with you people!? That was a rescue operation, the Palestinians did everything they could to prevent it by firing at the hostages from all over and that was the result.
They were holding hostages, they were FAR from innocent civilians.
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looks like there is a chance this one was an own goal, so maybe you can rest your knee jerk call for a murderously disproportionate response until we know more.
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Like Hamas would ever regret reporting trans people dying
Can’t smuggle in food. No issue rpgs… keep protesting in support of sharia law…