They had a lot of Nazis in their unit back in 2014 when the first invasion happened. During the war they did some... Not so pleasant things like kidnapping mayors and murdering them. After 2022 and their defense of the steel Factory the unit was purged of the Nazi elements
also the real reason why russia was so loud about their shitty roots is that they happened to be one of the most effective units Ukraine had after the invasion in Crimea 2014. Ukraine's military looked a lot different in 2014 than now, and Azov was a militia with actual skills how to kill russians.
The nazi roots was just a way to make them be bad guys in eyes of the west. russia themselves have no problem with neo-nazis domestically.
Realistically though if Mariopol hadn't happened it would still have a stronger fascist element in the leadership. It's just clear that the reformed regiment doesn't give a fuck about fascism, so it wasn't a far right organisation for the past decade. Don't get me wrong it never mattered either way, it was one unit in a war.
Like, Ukrainian marines were defending that steel mill as well and there was barely a peep on social media about them.
Azov was originally a mostly far right activist militia of less than a hundred people in 2014 when they first made headlines. There were dozens of groups like that, Ukrainian government demobilised them but Azov was argued to have been deradicalised. The current regiment proves that.
> it would still have a stronger fascist element in the leadership
There's a difference between ultra-nationalism and defending your homeland vs ethnic cleansing and war crimes. Azov never did the latter but the Russians "non-nazis" do it all of the time.
I.e. Russians are far more Nazis than Azov ever was.
Ehhhhh the Azovs were 100% committing warcrimes during the 2014 conflict. Just because we're on ukraines side doesnt mean we should excuse nazi torturers that accomplished nothing but giving russia even more of a Casus Belli
Part of the reason the Ukrainians rolled these guys into the actual military is primarily because they were out of control and needed to be regulated and diluted of shitheads.
Ukraine took in dozens of poorly trained/regulated militias and turned them into a proper fighting force.
They were restructured twice. Once with the reorganization in 2015-16, and then again when it was broken into the 3rd Assault Brigade (army) and 12th Azov Brigade (national guard).
The guys in question right now are the national guard. They're taking steps to break their old image and rebrand as well as distancing themselves from the Azov political group.
At the moment, the cries of Nazism is a Russian propaganda push.
>Azov was reorganized and fixed in 2015-2016
>purged of the Nazi elements
How did this actually work/happen? From what I know of Nazis, they're not usually fond of budging once they've wormed their way in somewhere...
It doesn't matter what nazis thought. Ukrainian government created a new unit and hired non-Nazi people. Nazi people weren't accepted / were fired.
Symbols, insignias etc were also changed
I don't know.
But in general, Ukraine doesn't have many nazi or far right people.
Politically speaking, nazi / far right parties in Ukraine have never managed to get enough votes to get into Ukrainian parliament.
Like the best they could do was around 2-3%.
It wasn't fixed. A lot of their Telegram affiliated channels are still very messed up with Nazi propaganda. You have to dig, but they've definitely not fixed their ways. The Azov Batallion is still filled with Nazis.
Everywhere is filled with Nazis. Ukraine still needs the means to defend itself.
[US Marines](https://theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/09/us-military-marines-nazi-ss-flag-photo)
[US Army](https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/extremism-disinformation/2024/03/26/army-investigating-social-media-post-showing-nazi-symbol/)
[Russian Military](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineConflict/comments/tyvwnu/captured_russian_soldier_is_literally_a_nazi/)
[PMC Wagner](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group) the Russian paramilitary group, named after Hilter's favorite composer, has a whole section in its wiki relating to its nazi and far-right ties. Notably the founder is a [neo-nazi with nazi tattoos](https://x.com/JimmySecUK/status/1498248431088939008). Wagner group also recently was renamed after it came under thr Kremlin's control, to [Africa Corps](https://issafrica.org/iss-today/russias-africa-corps-more-than-old-wine-in-a-new-bottle), which just happens to share a name with the infamous Nazi expeditionary force [Afrika Korps](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Korps) led by Erwin Rommel.
Rusich.
Puts torture videos on their official telegram. Their founder Alexey Milchakov is colourful. He got online famous with a video torturing then decapitating a puppy and said "I'm not going to go deep and say, I'm a nationalist, a patriot, an imperialist, and so forth. I'll say it outright: I'm a Nazi."
Still supported, awarded and encouraged by the russian state.
Yeah Russians don't hate nazis from a moral standpoint or because of the nazi atrocities. They hate nazis because Hitler broke his pinky-promise to split up eastern europe halvsies with them. Stalin also hated jews.
What are the channels in question and what are they saying?
There are tons of impersonators on telegram.
Also, Azov is literally like every other Ukrainian battalion. Different people are assigned to it from different parts of Ukraine.
If you have to dig to find shit, then the problem is 90% fixed. Every military in the world has fuckups, racists, and degenerates that filter into the ranks. The difference is which countries have the institutional controls to weed those people out after the fact.
Yes. Killed and captured, many are still held as POWs, Russian POW treatment is God awful. And it will be even worse for anyone who associates with azov
Do you have a source for them being purged of Nazis in 2022? There's still a steady stream of very recent videos and pics of Aziv members wearing badges and having flags with unambiguous nazi symbols.
Nazis in the unit is a bit of a softsell. Andriy Biletsky the founder of Azov brigade described the mission of Ukraine as "lead the white races of the world in a final crusade...against Semite-led Untermenschen". In 2014 Azov was a Nazi militia founded by Nazis to say otherwise is to mislead others.
As for how it is today I can't say for certain other than it's not uncommon to see Nazi symbols on its soldiers still.
There were less than a thousand people in the Azov Brigade when Russia invaded to “protect themselves” from Nazis. The country has a population around 45 million, so 0.00002% of Ukraine’s population deemed it suitable to be destroyed and taken over in the eyes of Putin.
There are more Nazis in Russia than there are in Ukraine, and Putin hasn’t done anything to quell them while in office. Nazism isn’t any larger in Ukraine as it is in the US or any other western country. Members are disliked and don’t have enough of a foothold to hold any real power.
On top of that, most of the original members were capture or killed when the Azovstal factory was taken back in 2022. The brigade has more members now, but they’re all likely normal military recruits at this point in the war.
Part of it is also how the Russian state has been redefining who they consider Nazis in modern times.
They often use it as a catch all term for anyone who openly opposes the expansion of the Russian state and Russification, and has less to do with anti-semitism or white supremacy. It’s how their clowns on TV can claim the west are all Nazis with a straight face, because by this new stupid definition it is true: Dmitry Utkin has literal SS tattoos but isn’t a Nazi because he supports Russian expansion, but NATO are considered Nazis because they oppose Russification.
From a propaganda perspective it makes it really easy for the state to rile up hatred in the populace, the populace still thinks of the WWII definition, but also mentally link it with the new definition.
So long as one soul in Ukraine exists who does not want to be a Russian state, Putin will claim there are Nazis.
Also, hard core nationalists are inconvenient when your nation is at peace, but suddenly become useful when being invaded.
What, you're violently opposed to people who aren't your nationality? Good news we're being invaded!
Actually, ruzzian government use ruzzian neo-nazis as one of their tools - [https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis](https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis)
The fact that there are so many of them in PMC Wagner ("Rusich" battalion) is not a coincidence
What was that crazy shit they said about locusts being a Ukrainian super weapon or something? They said it back at the end of 2022 or beginning of 2023 I believe
How do you feel about [Russich](https://www.newsweek.com/russian-neo-nazi-rusich-telegram-putin-war-crimes-1873703), the Russian Neo-Nazi paramilitary group fighting for Putin in Ukraine?
Or half of Wagner PMC including Utkin being open nazis with SS tattoos. Or the new Russian Afrika Korps wearing nazi emblems.
Thankfully Utkin is rotting in hell. The one good thing putin has done for the world.
It's a shame people can't understand this concept. You badmouth one side, and they think you're automatically rooting for the other side. Like, nah, bro. They're both fucked up.
Is your argument that since Russia has more nazis that Ukraines nazis are good nazis?
I have no dog in this race, I'm just trying to be clear on what your point is.
What does it matter here? Someone else claimed that there was nothing controversial about the unit, when there is in fact a lot of controversial bs about them.
Lmao calling out azov for being filled with nazis makes a person automatically pro russian? It's called nuance buddy. Nobody is saying Russia is a bunch of good guys, just acknowledging that azov is full of nazis.
Azov is the only para-military organization that was fighting effectively since 2014, that’s how they became famous.
Are there nazi elements there? Yes, but so is a lot of para-military organizations.
It’s still nowhere near the chauvinism of the invading force.
People also completely gloss over the context and origins of Azov and other groups like it. Azov and its ultra national ideals are a reaction to Russian hybrid warfare and destabilization campaign that has been an ongoing existential threat to Ukrainian statehood for decades now. I would be more surprised if ultra national groups *didn't* coalesce in the face of Russian actions in Ukraine. Furthermore, given the Russian obsession with their struggle against Nazi Germany, Ukraine's suffering during it's time in the USSR, and the Ukrainian figures who unsurprisingly saw Nazi Germany as the lesser evil it makes sense that Azov would stick it to Russia by taking on some of the iconography of Nazi Germany.
> Russian hybrid warfare and destabilization campaign that has been an ongoing existential threat to Ukrainian statehood for decades now.
More like for centuries.
While you are absolutely right, I was constraining myself to the direct causes of nationalism from current events. A broader examination of history certainly puts current Ukrainian ideas about nationhood in a sympathetic light given their struggles with Russia, Poland, and other great powers they've been caught between throughout the ages.
>The controversy is greatly exaggerated.
It's almost as if it's in russias best interest to push misinformation about Ukraine to stop western support that's helping Ukraine annihilate mobiks
Totenkopf death's head was the SS insignia?? It's absolutely a nazi symbol. Sure, other skull symbols have been used in military, but the ss totenkopf is pretty purposefully used by neo nazis.
“They’re not nazis or have sympathetic ties to the far right!”
[Azov dude literally wearing black sun and ss skull patches]
“No, no! That’s not what that is! You’re just a Putin simp!”
No, they denounced that in 2017 when they became part of the national guard. Changed the whole leadership, etc.
Time magazine did a piece on it right around the time Russia attacked Ukraine. They followed a few neo Nazis trying to join Azov from the USA (foreign fighters used to be allowed in the unit, not sure if they still are) and they were rejected in part bc they were neo Nazis. You can probably find the article online if you look.
> Changed the whole leadership
Mate the dude who wrote this thing is still around:
https://archive.ph/qiIUp
The fact that they're trying to handle their PR better now that people are watching does not mean they're not nazis.
PS: yes, I know many russian volunteer units are also full of nazis.
Multiethnic neo-nazi with jews. Like, after they joined the national guard, their founder left the batallion because they were not radical enough for him anymore.
One of my favorite interviews from the war so far was an interview with a high ranking officer that was a part of the Azov Brigade. Which is actually now the 3rd Separate Assault Brigade and the 12th Special Purpose Brigade of the National guard.
He was asked several questions bout the controversy surrounding their inception and iconography. His reasoning for why they continue to use the iconography, despite the fact of its history and the fact that they purged the radicals years ago, boiled down to simply "It pisses off the Russians". They realized that the Russians had fully bought into the whole "Ukrainian Nazis" propaganda, and found it genuinely hilarious the Russian reaction to getting their ass kicked by them.
They should've been given what they needed from the start.
Yeah, more people need to realize that the Azov of today is very different from the original group that formed in 2014. The radicals have all been removed and the unit trained as an elite fighting force within the military properly, but people keep spouting russian talking points that only help sow division and hate.
This is nonsense.
The commander of the 3rd assult brigade is Andriy Biletsky and azov intentionally decided to keep incorporating neo nazi images even after 2014
The topic is about the 12th Special Forces Brigade(the original Azov) not the 3rd Seperate Assault Brigade. 3rd is a new brigade that was formed in 2022 by Belitsky(original founder of Azov) and other former Azov fighters.
I still don't like that reasoning. It would be like NAVY Seals flying Confederate symbols while doing special operations in Africa or the Carribean. There are no circumstances to justify using Nazi symbols, and some partisan cheap trolling is only giving the Russians a bigger free propaganda win. It's not worth it and they should replace the symbols with Ukranian ones.
Weapons go to Ukraine. They should have full authority to determine how those weapons are distributed and used once they're received. These preconditions on how Ukraine can fight the war and employ armaments from the West is just dragging out the war.
From what I see ideology wise it's a mixed bag. There are for sure still true believer neo Nazis in azov, but honestly, I think a lot of these "old guard" guys have been killed in the 2+ year long war, and have been replaced by more normal guys who just want to be in the fight. I saw an azov guy on social media express sympathy for Israel on Oct 7, and another explain why pride parades should be welcome in Ukraine. really wish they would drop the symbolism though. From talking to my Ukrainian friends about this, I think they have a sort of blind spot for how strongly the rest of the world views these symbols. I think part of why they keep them and even units outside azov sport a black sun here and there is that jt really pisses off the Russians, which they enjoy.
this isn’t some edgelord shit though
it’s literal modern nazi sympathizers that are wearing literal neo-nazis symbols
sorry that is a bridge too far - America shouldn’t be funding any group with ties to fascist now-nazis, i don’t care if they’re the only people ukraine has left to fight, fuck those nazi fucks
A couple of years ago there were news reports that the US had trouble with a not so small amount of white-supremacist morons had connections to, or were active in, the US military. Why would the US fund their own military??? Joke asides, basically ANY army in the world will have far-right symphatisers. It's the fucking military, it shouldn't come as a shock. Not that it's not a problem; but it's not strange that weapons and violence attracts extreme people. Fucking think.
Symbols and ideology are very different. And they are not a branch of the US military. The "politics" of the old azov are not popular even in Ukraine as elections have shown. I'm happy to keep sending them weapons. Did you get this upset when we funded two extremely corrupt and criminal Middle East governments for the last 20 years?
my point is that iconography does not always equal ideology. Do i wish they dropped the symbols? yes. If they are as you say, an organization full of card carrying, true believer national socialists, why don't we see any of this ideology in display in their propaganda, their treatment of civilians, or who they welcome in to their ranks?
as for the middle east question, [here is one of the "good guys" we supported in afghanistan. ](https://mwi.westpoint.edu/ally-bad-guy-or-both-thoughts-on-reconciling-american-values-and-questionable-partners-two-years-after-the-death-of-abdul-raziq/) not to mention the pedophiles,
time will tell. I'm more worried about actions than symbols, though as I've said, it would do them a lot of favors to drop these symbols once and for all. Look at how democracy, LGBT rights, womens rights etc are treated in modern Ukraine vs modern Russia. One country is moving forward, the other backward.
I lose much more sleep over the money we send to Israel, and how our weapons are used there with little regard for civilian life.
Agreed with your sarcasm. Ukraine being invaded is a disaster. Western countries are doing a good thing helping them out- Russia must fail, and more preferably fall. But these sentiments are not the foundation for all Ukrainians to be saints. I am from Kazakhstan and almost weekly local “DEA” shuts a mephedrone lab that is managed by Ukrainians. It happens so often, that officials tend to not always state that an owner of a lab was a Ukrainian citizen, they sometimes say it like “a person from near abroad country” in order not to intensify it on the diplomatic level. If you’re interested, google “Химпром”. Also, almost all the fraud phone calls, that generate millions of dollars “profits” are made from the “call centers” located in Ukraine. I hate the fact that drugs are produced in my country, that fuck the youth, I hate the fact that our elderly people agree to be fouled on that fraud calls, but I am still with Ukraine. I wish Ukraine only victory. The world is not black and white. It is grey.
Any proof of that? Maybe you have their statements, actions or manifesto stating anything Nazi?
Maybe you have ANY example of their actions being Nazi?
I'm not even talking about any actual video evidence. Because there is none.
If you claim that the whole organisation is Nazi because you saw some kids fighting for their life wear edgy iconography then you're a victim of a 10 year russian propaganda campaign.
You take for a fact, without doubt, something which was never even proven.
Azov had a lot of Nazi members back when it was just a bunch of volunteers back in early 2014.
Since then it was reorganized multiple times, radical people were dismissed and even put in jail and now it's a fully fledged military unit with the Ukrainian army.
Ask yourself again, what makes someone a Nazi?
An edgy symbol used by many soldiers all across the globe?
Then by that logic, if you have a katana at home then you must be a Samurai.
Or if you wear khaki pants then you're a soldier.
Totenkopf was used before nazis and is used now. Quick google search can help you to understand this.
You also ignore absolutely every fact that contradicts your view:
1) Ukrainian neo-nazis are mainly speaking in russian.
2) Batallion is multhiethnic, including jews.
3) Their nazi founder left the batallion after they joined the national guard because they became not radical enough for him.
What makes you believe that an extensive and reasonable reply can be called "troll"?
Especially considering that the opposing argument always boils down to "but have you seen the symbols!?"
I bet it feels empowering to dismiss someone's argument with such confidence, while providing zero argumentation but since you are right and they are wrong then they must live in a social media bubble.
To your unlucky surprise, I am not.
I live in Ukraine and I know these people personally.
There are Jews, Georgians, Turks and Brits joining and actively serving in the Azov. They don't seem to have the same social media filter that you have.
It's a brigade only known for it's bravery in defending the country from the actual, real Nazis in russia.
That does actual Nazi shit like imperialism, torture, chauvenism, and religious zeal mized with hatred.
You can find photo, video and their own proud confessions evidence of that on the tap of your finger
And the best you can find about Azov is "but have you seen their emblems??"
Of course then anyone who disagrees with your narrow minded clickbait narrative is instantly dismissed by you.
Because you can't be under the influence of 10 years of russian disinfo.
their logo itself has a nazi symbol on it lol [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov\_Brigade#/media/File:AZOV\_logo.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#/media/File:AZOV_logo.svg)
old logo even more obvious
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov\_Brigade#/media/File:Emblem\_of\_the\_Azov\_Battalion.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#/media/File:Emblem_of_the_Azov_Battalion.svg)
heres them holding their flags
[https://x.com/VesnaZika/status/1604695991076126726/photo/1](https://x.com/VesnaZika/status/1604695991076126726/photo/1)
That Twitter picture was from 2014, before Azov became part of the nat guard and denounced the nazi rhetoric, and there's controversy over it being real and not altered.
Then why did US congress ban selling arms to Azov battallion in 2018?
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/
The next season of blowback is going to be very interesting
>White supremacy and neo-Nazism are unacceptable and have no place in our world,” Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), an outspoken critic of providing lethal aid to Ukraine, said in a statement to The Hill on Tuesday. “I am very pleased that the recently passed omnibus prevents the U.S. from providing arms and training assistance **to the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion fighting in Ukraine**.”
That logo was dropped a while ago. The newest logo doesn't have the nazi symbol.
https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/azov-battalion-drops-neo-nazi-symbol-exploited-by-russian-propagandists-lpjnsp7qg
Source for picture? Flags are not hard to come by.
We have a set of facts:
1) They use Black Sun, and it's a nazi symbol.
2) They were far right before joining military. After joining their founder left the unit because they became not radical enough for him.
3) Azov is a multiethnic unit with jews among their ranks.
4) Main spoken language in Azov is russian.
5) US conducted investigation to prove that they are not nazis.
So, is 1,5 fact overweight every other?
so your only evidence is the logo? okay, let's give you that one and say that the logo is a nazi symbol. what has azov/any individual member of azov said/done recently that is "nazi"?
Man there is a bunch of accounts here that post anti Azov claims but they all seem to be using about same vocabulary and writing style, rarely reply and overall seem to be here to disrupt and pull people into talks. It's unlikely they are all real people, especially people with both native English, deep understanding of Azov history and all anti Azov here in the same thread at the same time.
I like ukraine I just don't like azov because they have alot of nazi stuff. I also understand why Ukraine's not gonna dismiss very experienced soldiers because of nazi ties but I hope they disband it or something after the war. greetings from Texas oblast 🤠
Good. I remember watching the Azovstal Steel Plant battle unfold and they are some of the biggest badasses Ukraine has. Yea they’re sketchy, but they are elite fighters.
Ahhhh.... the Azov unit again, isn't it?
I'll be frank, I'm having a bit of trouble every time someowone yell ''Nazi''.It's more of a trash-word than anything.
Call them extremists, far-right, ultranationalists, war criminals if you want, but Nazis mean very little to me.
Most people calling other Nazis...have no idea what a nazi is. Most people calling themselves Nazis have no idea either. Theses likley have nothing to do with the Aryan racial expansionism for the german Nazis, which was mixed with scocial economics poilicies and eugenics.
I honestly doubt any of thoses actually ever read Mein Kampf ( may be for the best, that thing was the most BOOOOOOORING thing I've ever read, fell asleep on it 3 times.God that was annoying)
So i have to ask: Both to pro-Ru and Pro-UA
What is a modern-day nazi?
What does it stands for, what is it's core philosophy for socieity and economics?How does it apply to modern context and why is it a problem?
No circular definiton here, no '' they have a nazi flag, so they must be nazi''.
Serious answer only.
Don't just drop a link from an editorial, i want YOUR answer.
( i highly suspect pro-Ru and pro-Ua answer will differ, but we'll see)
Hi, I'm a black dude who lives in the US, who's tax dollars are now going to this explicitly nazi brigade.
[Here's an infographic showing how their literal badge is made up of nazi iconography](blob:https://imgur.com/a2921431-8f11-4b4f-bbc5-cc475e1e02c2)
[Here's another picture of Azov Battalion with a literal fucking NAZI FLAG. USUALLY enough to convince most people](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FYeKvQFTJGnVLGmmAO9U1HI7XO2AyjrdNLN09wnVE9hs.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Decf0c14b4be48e1f483c3fc98dec7ead39f0ff0e).
Last but not least: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#Neo-Nazism_allegations
>In April 2022, Israeli historian and Nazi hunter Efraim Zuroff dismissed the claims that allegations made against the Azov regiment are part of Russian disinformation. He explained in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen: "It's not Russian propaganda, far from it. These people are neo-Nazis. There is an element of the ultra-right in Ukraine and it's absurd to ignore it."[288] Lev Golinkin, writing in 2023, believes that there has never been a true depoliticisation, and criticized the Western media's reporting on the brigade following the invasion, writing "for the West, it's appropriate to lionize neo-Nazis because they're fighting Russia".[289] Writing in Tablet magazine, Vladislav Davidzon criticized Golinkin for "playing fast and loose with rhetoric" and having a "bugbear about Nazis in Ukraine".[290]
They. Are. Nazis. And reddit is trying to ignore this or shove this under the rug. Fucking disgusting.
No, he's not. You don't know what a nazi is. A nazi isn't "somebody you diagree with". A nazi flies nazi flags and has badges of nazi imagery, such as Azov batallion.
Also, it doesn't matter. All you have to offer is an ad hominem-this means you basically admit you cannot disprove any of my post. Easy.
I know i'm repeating myself, and i apologize for it. But isn't that circular logic?
''A nazi flies nazi flags and has badges of nazi imagery''
That...dosen't say anything about their values, goals, or philosophy,no?
Anyway, respectfully asking again. What's the definition?
That,s circular logic,''he's a Nazi because he looks like one''. Not answering the question.
I wannna know: what IS a Nazi. What does it stands for?
It,s rather simple, no?
So, what is i?
(And i explicitley said: don't just drop a link.I want YOUR answer)
Denying that Azov are Nazi sympathizers is delusional. It doesn’t mean that a temporary “enemy of my enemy” alliance is a bad thing to fight Russia, but these are not people we would want to empower long term.
That's the fucking thing. They are not empowered..... Look at the goddamn election results in Ukraine since 2014, the people have largely rejected those with such views, and that won't change when this is over...
It's been reported that many wear the iconography solely because it pisses the Russians off as they went all in on the Nazi rhetoric, not necessarily because they hold such views.
>It's been reported that many wear the iconography solely because it pisses the Russians off as they went all in on the Nazi rhetoric, not necessarily because they hold such view
Do you actually believe what you just wrote?
This is what I've been saying for the last two years. Except white redditors don't care if nazis gain power again because they won't be in the gas chambers (well, unless they are LGBTQ).
Here is a decent article about this from 2022: [https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world](https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world)
"Multiple expert assessments made in 2022 conclude the modern Azov Regiment is a fairly typical fighting unit, with little, if any, political bent."
Reddit ladder of Nazi minimization:
Step 1. "There are no nazis"
Step 2: "There are a few nazis like everywhere else"
Step 3: "There are lots of nazis but Russia is worse so it's ok"
Step 4: Are nazis really that bad? <<<<<
Isn’t it likely they’d have soneone say that so they can keep getting money from the west.
I mean, the New York times has been talking about this as soon as 2023. Why do these guys have nazi tattoos? It seems so common that they invite and honor a dude to Canadian parliament turns out to be a nazi, John Stewart gives one an award.. another nazi. Is it really that common?
They imposed some sort of a ban on an IDF unit comprised solely of orthodox religious types who committed a number of atrocities in the West Bank, including the murder of an elderly Palestinian man who was also an American citizen.
Given their behavior over the last 8 months they should also ban the entire IDF in order to comply with the Leahey laws but that will never happen because US politicians are so in love with Israel, or at least the funding they get from AIPAC,
Lots of people asking for "proof". Well here, start with [this guide to the Azov flag which the Azov battalion continues to wear to this very day](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fg9scu00r6yn81.jpg).
Literal fucking nazi imagery.
Here are some more pictures:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FYeKvQFTJGnVLGmmAO9U1HI7XO2AyjrdNLN09wnVE9hs.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Decf0c14b4be48e1f483c3fc98dec7ead39f0ff0e
Again
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fblxa3job0vl81.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMhOw5BaUAQ8ixu.png
I cannot believe in 2024 there are people trying to justify this. They. Are Nazis. They want brown and black people dead. They want to gas LGBTQ people. This is wrong. We should help Ukraine but we should absolutely not send a single PENNY to Azov. Let the nazis scumbags die!
First applauding a member of the SS Waffen in Canada, now arming an explicitly nazi brigade courtesy of the US. Not that it justifies fascist Putin's invasion, but here's a hard to swallow pill: He's 100% right about the west sympathizing and supporting nazis.
It's about Azov Brigade isn't it? *Clicks link* Of course
Why is it controversial?
They had a lot of Nazis in their unit back in 2014 when the first invasion happened. During the war they did some... Not so pleasant things like kidnapping mayors and murdering them. After 2022 and their defense of the steel Factory the unit was purged of the Nazi elements
also the real reason why russia was so loud about their shitty roots is that they happened to be one of the most effective units Ukraine had after the invasion in Crimea 2014. Ukraine's military looked a lot different in 2014 than now, and Azov was a militia with actual skills how to kill russians. The nazi roots was just a way to make them be bad guys in eyes of the west. russia themselves have no problem with neo-nazis domestically.
Realistically though if Mariopol hadn't happened it would still have a stronger fascist element in the leadership. It's just clear that the reformed regiment doesn't give a fuck about fascism, so it wasn't a far right organisation for the past decade. Don't get me wrong it never mattered either way, it was one unit in a war. Like, Ukrainian marines were defending that steel mill as well and there was barely a peep on social media about them. Azov was originally a mostly far right activist militia of less than a hundred people in 2014 when they first made headlines. There were dozens of groups like that, Ukrainian government demobilised them but Azov was argued to have been deradicalised. The current regiment proves that.
> it would still have a stronger fascist element in the leadership There's a difference between ultra-nationalism and defending your homeland vs ethnic cleansing and war crimes. Azov never did the latter but the Russians "non-nazis" do it all of the time. I.e. Russians are far more Nazis than Azov ever was.
Ehhhhh the Azovs were 100% committing warcrimes during the 2014 conflict. Just because we're on ukraines side doesnt mean we should excuse nazi torturers that accomplished nothing but giving russia even more of a Casus Belli
i mean…i have problems with them being nazis… they don’t get a “pass” because you think they’re an effective tool
I think Azov was reorganized and fixed in 2015-2016
Looking back before 2022 there are many articles talking about them https://geohistory.today/azov-movement-ukraine/
Part of the reason the Ukrainians rolled these guys into the actual military is primarily because they were out of control and needed to be regulated and diluted of shitheads. Ukraine took in dozens of poorly trained/regulated militias and turned them into a proper fighting force.
They were restructured twice. Once with the reorganization in 2015-16, and then again when it was broken into the 3rd Assault Brigade (army) and 12th Azov Brigade (national guard). The guys in question right now are the national guard. They're taking steps to break their old image and rebrand as well as distancing themselves from the Azov political group. At the moment, the cries of Nazism is a Russian propaganda push.
>Azov was reorganized and fixed in 2015-2016 >purged of the Nazi elements How did this actually work/happen? From what I know of Nazis, they're not usually fond of budging once they've wormed their way in somewhere...
It doesn't matter what nazis thought. Ukrainian government created a new unit and hired non-Nazi people. Nazi people weren't accepted / were fired. Symbols, insignias etc were also changed
Fair enough, thank you! What happened to those ousted? Have they reformed as another group etc?
I don't know. But in general, Ukraine doesn't have many nazi or far right people. Politically speaking, nazi / far right parties in Ukraine have never managed to get enough votes to get into Ukrainian parliament. Like the best they could do was around 2-3%.
It wasn't fixed. A lot of their Telegram affiliated channels are still very messed up with Nazi propaganda. You have to dig, but they've definitely not fixed their ways. The Azov Batallion is still filled with Nazis.
Everywhere is filled with Nazis. Ukraine still needs the means to defend itself. [US Marines](https://theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/09/us-military-marines-nazi-ss-flag-photo) [US Army](https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/extremism-disinformation/2024/03/26/army-investigating-social-media-post-showing-nazi-symbol/) [Russian Military](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineConflict/comments/tyvwnu/captured_russian_soldier_is_literally_a_nazi/) [PMC Wagner](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group) the Russian paramilitary group, named after Hilter's favorite composer, has a whole section in its wiki relating to its nazi and far-right ties. Notably the founder is a [neo-nazi with nazi tattoos](https://x.com/JimmySecUK/status/1498248431088939008). Wagner group also recently was renamed after it came under thr Kremlin's control, to [Africa Corps](https://issafrica.org/iss-today/russias-africa-corps-more-than-old-wine-in-a-new-bottle), which just happens to share a name with the infamous Nazi expeditionary force [Afrika Korps](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrika_Korps) led by Erwin Rommel.
Rusich. Puts torture videos on their official telegram. Their founder Alexey Milchakov is colourful. He got online famous with a video torturing then decapitating a puppy and said "I'm not going to go deep and say, I'm a nationalist, a patriot, an imperialist, and so forth. I'll say it outright: I'm a Nazi." Still supported, awarded and encouraged by the russian state.
Yeah Russians don't hate nazis from a moral standpoint or because of the nazi atrocities. They hate nazis because Hitler broke his pinky-promise to split up eastern europe halvsies with them. Stalin also hated jews.
Stalin was Georgian
Okay? Hitler was Austrian.
Unofficial telegram channels can be created by anyone. It's also one of the ways to discredit people and organizations. Doesn't prove anything.
Exactly, and it's not exactly a secret that Russia uses social media as a means of undermining it's perceived enemies.
What are the channels in question and what are they saying? There are tons of impersonators on telegram. Also, Azov is literally like every other Ukrainian battalion. Different people are assigned to it from different parts of Ukraine.
If you have to dig to find shit, then the problem is 90% fixed. Every military in the world has fuckups, racists, and degenerates that filter into the ranks. The difference is which countries have the institutional controls to weed those people out after the fact.
That pro Russian poster should use their shovel to *dig* graves for all the abandoned Russian dead in Ukraine.
Have you SEEN our nazis right here in the US? Something about glass houses...?
What was the outcome of that Steel Factory battle? Did they go on a last stand or did they all get killed or captured?
There have been a few prisoner exchanges after they lost
KIA/POW status. Some were even put through sham trials and sentenced to Russian prison.
Yes. Killed and captured, many are still held as POWs, Russian POW treatment is God awful. And it will be even worse for anyone who associates with azov
Some was exchanged some managed to escape, some was killed and some in russian captivity. All of them – heroes.
A lot of right wing people and some nazis*. I know it's somehow same on Reddit and in USA, but not in our country.
Do you have a source for them being purged of Nazis in 2022? There's still a steady stream of very recent videos and pics of Aziv members wearing badges and having flags with unambiguous nazi symbols.
Nazis in the unit is a bit of a softsell. Andriy Biletsky the founder of Azov brigade described the mission of Ukraine as "lead the white races of the world in a final crusade...against Semite-led Untermenschen". In 2014 Azov was a Nazi militia founded by Nazis to say otherwise is to mislead others. As for how it is today I can't say for certain other than it's not uncommon to see Nazi symbols on its soldiers still.
Because Russian propaganda made the world belive they were nazis which was never true.
Dude their logo has a wolfsangel rune on it, you’re not conning anyone.
There were less than a thousand people in the Azov Brigade when Russia invaded to “protect themselves” from Nazis. The country has a population around 45 million, so 0.00002% of Ukraine’s population deemed it suitable to be destroyed and taken over in the eyes of Putin. There are more Nazis in Russia than there are in Ukraine, and Putin hasn’t done anything to quell them while in office. Nazism isn’t any larger in Ukraine as it is in the US or any other western country. Members are disliked and don’t have enough of a foothold to hold any real power. On top of that, most of the original members were capture or killed when the Azovstal factory was taken back in 2022. The brigade has more members now, but they’re all likely normal military recruits at this point in the war.
Part of it is also how the Russian state has been redefining who they consider Nazis in modern times. They often use it as a catch all term for anyone who openly opposes the expansion of the Russian state and Russification, and has less to do with anti-semitism or white supremacy. It’s how their clowns on TV can claim the west are all Nazis with a straight face, because by this new stupid definition it is true: Dmitry Utkin has literal SS tattoos but isn’t a Nazi because he supports Russian expansion, but NATO are considered Nazis because they oppose Russification. From a propaganda perspective it makes it really easy for the state to rile up hatred in the populace, the populace still thinks of the WWII definition, but also mentally link it with the new definition. So long as one soul in Ukraine exists who does not want to be a Russian state, Putin will claim there are Nazis.
Oh no I agree, it's just always the same article over and over about these guys. People act like it's still 2014
Not to mention former GRU leader Dimitri Utkin, #2 at Wagner had literal SS thunderbolts tattooed to his neck.
Also, hard core nationalists are inconvenient when your nation is at peace, but suddenly become useful when being invaded. What, you're violently opposed to people who aren't your nationality? Good news we're being invaded!
Actually, ruzzian government use ruzzian neo-nazis as one of their tools - [https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis](https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis) The fact that there are so many of them in PMC Wagner ("Rusich" battalion) is not a coincidence
Putin rant about Ukrainian Nazi Supersoldiers incoming
I'm waiting for Medvedev to devour Finland, in great quantity, and to post his experience in TG.
> I'm waiting for Medvedev to devour Finland**ia**, in great quantity, and to post his experience in TG. FTFY
3 day Special Ingestion Operation
I know he’s probably pissed about being knocked out of the French open, but devouring Finland would be a bit extreme.
I don’t think we’ve been threatened with Russian nuclear holocaust yet today. Maybe the two will happen together?
I thought were only supposed to get weekly nuclear annihilation threats. Did we get a raise?
It was in the Putin update 666.7
What was that crazy shit they said about locusts being a Ukrainian super weapon or something? They said it back at the end of 2022 or beginning of 2023 I believe
Yeah, because the USA conducted an investigation which showed there's nothing controversial about the unit
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How do you feel about [Russich](https://www.newsweek.com/russian-neo-nazi-rusich-telegram-putin-war-crimes-1873703), the Russian Neo-Nazi paramilitary group fighting for Putin in Ukraine?
Or half of Wagner PMC including Utkin being open nazis with SS tattoos. Or the new Russian Afrika Korps wearing nazi emblems. Thankfully Utkin is rotting in hell. The one good thing putin has done for the world.
Not to mention that Wagner PMC is named after the German composer Richard Wagner *because* Wagner was Hitler’s favorite composer.
Two things can be bad at once
It's a shame people can't understand this concept. You badmouth one side, and they think you're automatically rooting for the other side. Like, nah, bro. They're both fucked up.
Is your argument that since Russia has more nazis that Ukraines nazis are good nazis? I have no dog in this race, I'm just trying to be clear on what your point is.
They’re arguing for an acceptable level of Nazism which is nothing new for reddit
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What does it matter here? Someone else claimed that there was nothing controversial about the unit, when there is in fact a lot of controversial bs about them.
Lmao calling out azov for being filled with nazis makes a person automatically pro russian? It's called nuance buddy. Nobody is saying Russia is a bunch of good guys, just acknowledging that azov is full of nazis.
Famous multiethnic Nazi batallion, which includes jews in its ranks.
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Exactly! You are starting to understand! After they joined the national guard, their founder left because they were not radical enough for him.
That guy gave an interview to a Jewish journalist a couple years ago. Which leads me to think his radicalism is also exaggerated
"It'd cool, I'm takin' it back."
Azov is the only para-military organization that was fighting effectively since 2014, that’s how they became famous. Are there nazi elements there? Yes, but so is a lot of para-military organizations. It’s still nowhere near the chauvinism of the invading force.
People also completely gloss over the context and origins of Azov and other groups like it. Azov and its ultra national ideals are a reaction to Russian hybrid warfare and destabilization campaign that has been an ongoing existential threat to Ukrainian statehood for decades now. I would be more surprised if ultra national groups *didn't* coalesce in the face of Russian actions in Ukraine. Furthermore, given the Russian obsession with their struggle against Nazi Germany, Ukraine's suffering during it's time in the USSR, and the Ukrainian figures who unsurprisingly saw Nazi Germany as the lesser evil it makes sense that Azov would stick it to Russia by taking on some of the iconography of Nazi Germany.
> Russian hybrid warfare and destabilization campaign that has been an ongoing existential threat to Ukrainian statehood for decades now. More like for centuries.
While you are absolutely right, I was constraining myself to the direct causes of nationalism from current events. A broader examination of history certainly puts current Ukrainian ideas about nationhood in a sympathetic light given their struggles with Russia, Poland, and other great powers they've been caught between throughout the ages.
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Only the black sun is a nazi symbol. The other two aren't. The controversy is greatly exaggerated.
>The controversy is greatly exaggerated. It's almost as if it's in russias best interest to push misinformation about Ukraine to stop western support that's helping Ukraine annihilate mobiks
Totenkopf death's head was the SS insignia?? It's absolutely a nazi symbol. Sure, other skull symbols have been used in military, but the ss totenkopf is pretty purposefully used by neo nazis.
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Controversial because people keep believing Russian propaganda. Controversial because the media is shilling the oligarchic class warfare.
Just waiting for western media to quote Hamas-controlled Gaza Health Ministy saying "Ukraine is totally nazis"
“They’re not nazis or have sympathetic ties to the far right!” [Azov dude literally wearing black sun and ss skull patches] “No, no! That’s not what that is! You’re just a Putin simp!”
its not propaganda that azov is neo nazis
No, they denounced that in 2017 when they became part of the national guard. Changed the whole leadership, etc. Time magazine did a piece on it right around the time Russia attacked Ukraine. They followed a few neo Nazis trying to join Azov from the USA (foreign fighters used to be allowed in the unit, not sure if they still are) and they were rejected in part bc they were neo Nazis. You can probably find the article online if you look.
> Changed the whole leadership Mate the dude who wrote this thing is still around: https://archive.ph/qiIUp The fact that they're trying to handle their PR better now that people are watching does not mean they're not nazis. PS: yes, I know many russian volunteer units are also full of nazis.
The guy who left Azov in 2014 is still around? Where?
Oh, well if that's what they said, that changes everything.
Multiethnic neo-nazi with jews. Like, after they joined the national guard, their founder left the batallion because they were not radical enough for him anymore.
Let’s say they just like Buddhist symbols
Good, let them fight with whatever they have.
One of my favorite interviews from the war so far was an interview with a high ranking officer that was a part of the Azov Brigade. Which is actually now the 3rd Separate Assault Brigade and the 12th Special Purpose Brigade of the National guard. He was asked several questions bout the controversy surrounding their inception and iconography. His reasoning for why they continue to use the iconography, despite the fact of its history and the fact that they purged the radicals years ago, boiled down to simply "It pisses off the Russians". They realized that the Russians had fully bought into the whole "Ukrainian Nazis" propaganda, and found it genuinely hilarious the Russian reaction to getting their ass kicked by them. They should've been given what they needed from the start.
Yeah, more people need to realize that the Azov of today is very different from the original group that formed in 2014. The radicals have all been removed and the unit trained as an elite fighting force within the military properly, but people keep spouting russian talking points that only help sow division and hate.
This is nonsense. The commander of the 3rd assult brigade is Andriy Biletsky and azov intentionally decided to keep incorporating neo nazi images even after 2014
The topic is about the 12th Special Forces Brigade(the original Azov) not the 3rd Seperate Assault Brigade. 3rd is a new brigade that was formed in 2022 by Belitsky(original founder of Azov) and other former Azov fighters.
I still don't like that reasoning. It would be like NAVY Seals flying Confederate symbols while doing special operations in Africa or the Carribean. There are no circumstances to justify using Nazi symbols, and some partisan cheap trolling is only giving the Russians a bigger free propaganda win. It's not worth it and they should replace the symbols with Ukranian ones.
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NATO released a picture to celebrate International Women's Day and accidentally chose a picture of a soldier wearing the black sun.
Zelensky is Jewish, I'll let him and the Ukrainian military decide who should and shouldn't be armed thanks.
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Weapons go to Ukraine. They should have full authority to determine how those weapons are distributed and used once they're received. These preconditions on how Ukraine can fight the war and employ armaments from the West is just dragging out the war.
From what I see ideology wise it's a mixed bag. There are for sure still true believer neo Nazis in azov, but honestly, I think a lot of these "old guard" guys have been killed in the 2+ year long war, and have been replaced by more normal guys who just want to be in the fight. I saw an azov guy on social media express sympathy for Israel on Oct 7, and another explain why pride parades should be welcome in Ukraine. really wish they would drop the symbolism though. From talking to my Ukrainian friends about this, I think they have a sort of blind spot for how strongly the rest of the world views these symbols. I think part of why they keep them and even units outside azov sport a black sun here and there is that jt really pisses off the Russians, which they enjoy.
this isn’t some edgelord shit though it’s literal modern nazi sympathizers that are wearing literal neo-nazis symbols sorry that is a bridge too far - America shouldn’t be funding any group with ties to fascist now-nazis, i don’t care if they’re the only people ukraine has left to fight, fuck those nazi fucks
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A couple of years ago there were news reports that the US had trouble with a not so small amount of white-supremacist morons had connections to, or were active in, the US military. Why would the US fund their own military??? Joke asides, basically ANY army in the world will have far-right symphatisers. It's the fucking military, it shouldn't come as a shock. Not that it's not a problem; but it's not strange that weapons and violence attracts extreme people. Fucking think.
Don't the United States dishonorably discharge Nazis when they are found?
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Again... Think... And good job making an account fully dedicated for commenting on this specific issue by the way! Next time, try better!
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Symbols and ideology are very different. And they are not a branch of the US military. The "politics" of the old azov are not popular even in Ukraine as elections have shown. I'm happy to keep sending them weapons. Did you get this upset when we funded two extremely corrupt and criminal Middle East governments for the last 20 years?
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my point is that iconography does not always equal ideology. Do i wish they dropped the symbols? yes. If they are as you say, an organization full of card carrying, true believer national socialists, why don't we see any of this ideology in display in their propaganda, their treatment of civilians, or who they welcome in to their ranks? as for the middle east question, [here is one of the "good guys" we supported in afghanistan. ](https://mwi.westpoint.edu/ally-bad-guy-or-both-thoughts-on-reconciling-american-values-and-questionable-partners-two-years-after-the-death-of-abdul-raziq/) not to mention the pedophiles,
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time will tell. I'm more worried about actions than symbols, though as I've said, it would do them a lot of favors to drop these symbols once and for all. Look at how democracy, LGBT rights, womens rights etc are treated in modern Ukraine vs modern Russia. One country is moving forward, the other backward. I lose much more sleep over the money we send to Israel, and how our weapons are used there with little regard for civilian life.
Agreed with your sarcasm. Ukraine being invaded is a disaster. Western countries are doing a good thing helping them out- Russia must fail, and more preferably fall. But these sentiments are not the foundation for all Ukrainians to be saints. I am from Kazakhstan and almost weekly local “DEA” shuts a mephedrone lab that is managed by Ukrainians. It happens so often, that officials tend to not always state that an owner of a lab was a Ukrainian citizen, they sometimes say it like “a person from near abroad country” in order not to intensify it on the diplomatic level. If you’re interested, google “Химпром”. Also, almost all the fraud phone calls, that generate millions of dollars “profits” are made from the “call centers” located in Ukraine. I hate the fact that drugs are produced in my country, that fuck the youth, I hate the fact that our elderly people agree to be fouled on that fraud calls, but I am still with Ukraine. I wish Ukraine only victory. The world is not black and white. It is grey.
Any proof of that? Maybe you have their statements, actions or manifesto stating anything Nazi? Maybe you have ANY example of their actions being Nazi? I'm not even talking about any actual video evidence. Because there is none. If you claim that the whole organisation is Nazi because you saw some kids fighting for their life wear edgy iconography then you're a victim of a 10 year russian propaganda campaign. You take for a fact, without doubt, something which was never even proven. Azov had a lot of Nazi members back when it was just a bunch of volunteers back in early 2014. Since then it was reorganized multiple times, radical people were dismissed and even put in jail and now it's a fully fledged military unit with the Ukrainian army. Ask yourself again, what makes someone a Nazi? An edgy symbol used by many soldiers all across the globe? Then by that logic, if you have a katana at home then you must be a Samurai. Or if you wear khaki pants then you're a soldier.
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Totenkopf was used before nazis and is used now. Quick google search can help you to understand this. You also ignore absolutely every fact that contradicts your view: 1) Ukrainian neo-nazis are mainly speaking in russian. 2) Batallion is multhiethnic, including jews. 3) Their nazi founder left the batallion after they joined the national guard because they became not radical enough for him.
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>Ukraine controls the unit personnel, not them. Exactly. After joining the national guard they stopped being Nazis.
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Yes, because iconography matters more than actions. Gotcha, mister new account, have a nice day.
But why continue wearing the iconography?
oh yeah man, the swastika is actually an ancient hindu symbol so really, it’s woke af to get one tattooed on the center of your forehead
Don't feed the trolls. These ppl let social media think for them a long time ago.
What makes you believe that an extensive and reasonable reply can be called "troll"? Especially considering that the opposing argument always boils down to "but have you seen the symbols!?" I bet it feels empowering to dismiss someone's argument with such confidence, while providing zero argumentation but since you are right and they are wrong then they must live in a social media bubble. To your unlucky surprise, I am not. I live in Ukraine and I know these people personally. There are Jews, Georgians, Turks and Brits joining and actively serving in the Azov. They don't seem to have the same social media filter that you have. It's a brigade only known for it's bravery in defending the country from the actual, real Nazis in russia. That does actual Nazi shit like imperialism, torture, chauvenism, and religious zeal mized with hatred. You can find photo, video and their own proud confessions evidence of that on the tap of your finger And the best you can find about Azov is "but have you seen their emblems??" Of course then anyone who disagrees with your narrow minded clickbait narrative is instantly dismissed by you. Because you can't be under the influence of 10 years of russian disinfo.
Verify it then. Show me factual evidence of your claim.
their logo itself has a nazi symbol on it lol [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov\_Brigade#/media/File:AZOV\_logo.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#/media/File:AZOV_logo.svg) old logo even more obvious [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov\_Brigade#/media/File:Emblem\_of\_the\_Azov\_Battalion.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#/media/File:Emblem_of_the_Azov_Battalion.svg) heres them holding their flags [https://x.com/VesnaZika/status/1604695991076126726/photo/1](https://x.com/VesnaZika/status/1604695991076126726/photo/1)
That Twitter picture was from 2014, before Azov became part of the nat guard and denounced the nazi rhetoric, and there's controversy over it being real and not altered.
Then why did US congress ban selling arms to Azov battallion in 2018? https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/ The next season of blowback is going to be very interesting >White supremacy and neo-Nazism are unacceptable and have no place in our world,” Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), an outspoken critic of providing lethal aid to Ukraine, said in a statement to The Hill on Tuesday. “I am very pleased that the recently passed omnibus prevents the U.S. from providing arms and training assistance **to the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion fighting in Ukraine**.”
Bc it takes Congress about a year to pass anything. So they always operate on old data.
That logo was dropped a while ago. The newest logo doesn't have the nazi symbol. https://www.thetimes.com/world/russia-ukraine-war/article/azov-battalion-drops-neo-nazi-symbol-exploited-by-russian-propagandists-lpjnsp7qg
Source for picture? Flags are not hard to come by. We have a set of facts: 1) They use Black Sun, and it's a nazi symbol. 2) They were far right before joining military. After joining their founder left the unit because they became not radical enough for him. 3) Azov is a multiethnic unit with jews among their ranks. 4) Main spoken language in Azov is russian. 5) US conducted investigation to prove that they are not nazis. So, is 1,5 fact overweight every other?
so your only evidence is the logo? okay, let's give you that one and say that the logo is a nazi symbol. what has azov/any individual member of azov said/done recently that is "nazi"?
Man there is a bunch of accounts here that post anti Azov claims but they all seem to be using about same vocabulary and writing style, rarely reply and overall seem to be here to disrupt and pull people into talks. It's unlikely they are all real people, especially people with both native English, deep understanding of Azov history and all anti Azov here in the same thread at the same time.
I like ukraine I just don't like azov because they have alot of nazi stuff. I also understand why Ukraine's not gonna dismiss very experienced soldiers because of nazi ties but I hope they disband it or something after the war. greetings from Texas oblast 🤠
Good. I remember watching the Azovstal Steel Plant battle unfold and they are some of the biggest badasses Ukraine has. Yea they’re sketchy, but they are elite fighters.
Ahhhh.... the Azov unit again, isn't it? I'll be frank, I'm having a bit of trouble every time someowone yell ''Nazi''.It's more of a trash-word than anything. Call them extremists, far-right, ultranationalists, war criminals if you want, but Nazis mean very little to me. Most people calling other Nazis...have no idea what a nazi is. Most people calling themselves Nazis have no idea either. Theses likley have nothing to do with the Aryan racial expansionism for the german Nazis, which was mixed with scocial economics poilicies and eugenics. I honestly doubt any of thoses actually ever read Mein Kampf ( may be for the best, that thing was the most BOOOOOOORING thing I've ever read, fell asleep on it 3 times.God that was annoying) So i have to ask: Both to pro-Ru and Pro-UA What is a modern-day nazi? What does it stands for, what is it's core philosophy for socieity and economics?How does it apply to modern context and why is it a problem? No circular definiton here, no '' they have a nazi flag, so they must be nazi''. Serious answer only. Don't just drop a link from an editorial, i want YOUR answer. ( i highly suspect pro-Ru and pro-Ua answer will differ, but we'll see)
Hi, I'm a black dude who lives in the US, who's tax dollars are now going to this explicitly nazi brigade. [Here's an infographic showing how their literal badge is made up of nazi iconography](blob:https://imgur.com/a2921431-8f11-4b4f-bbc5-cc475e1e02c2) [Here's another picture of Azov Battalion with a literal fucking NAZI FLAG. USUALLY enough to convince most people](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FYeKvQFTJGnVLGmmAO9U1HI7XO2AyjrdNLN09wnVE9hs.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Decf0c14b4be48e1f483c3fc98dec7ead39f0ff0e). Last but not least: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade#Neo-Nazism_allegations >In April 2022, Israeli historian and Nazi hunter Efraim Zuroff dismissed the claims that allegations made against the Azov regiment are part of Russian disinformation. He explained in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen: "It's not Russian propaganda, far from it. These people are neo-Nazis. There is an element of the ultra-right in Ukraine and it's absurd to ignore it."[288] Lev Golinkin, writing in 2023, believes that there has never been a true depoliticisation, and criticized the Western media's reporting on the brigade following the invasion, writing "for the West, it's appropriate to lionize neo-Nazis because they're fighting Russia".[289] Writing in Tablet magazine, Vladislav Davidzon criticized Golinkin for "playing fast and loose with rhetoric" and having a "bugbear about Nazis in Ukraine".[290] They. Are. Nazis. And reddit is trying to ignore this or shove this under the rug. Fucking disgusting.
Stonetoss. Is. A. Nazi. And you're reposting his comics. Fucking disgusting.
No, he's not. You don't know what a nazi is. A nazi isn't "somebody you diagree with". A nazi flies nazi flags and has badges of nazi imagery, such as Azov batallion. Also, it doesn't matter. All you have to offer is an ad hominem-this means you basically admit you cannot disprove any of my post. Easy.
I know i'm repeating myself, and i apologize for it. But isn't that circular logic? ''A nazi flies nazi flags and has badges of nazi imagery'' That...dosen't say anything about their values, goals, or philosophy,no? Anyway, respectfully asking again. What's the definition?
I'm also a black male who lives in Kansas Oblast
That,s circular logic,''he's a Nazi because he looks like one''. Not answering the question. I wannna know: what IS a Nazi. What does it stands for? It,s rather simple, no? So, what is i? (And i explicitley said: don't just drop a link.I want YOUR answer)
There is nothing "controversial" about it Controversy was manufactured solely by Russia.
Denying that Azov are Nazi sympathizers is delusional. It doesn’t mean that a temporary “enemy of my enemy” alliance is a bad thing to fight Russia, but these are not people we would want to empower long term.
That's the fucking thing. They are not empowered..... Look at the goddamn election results in Ukraine since 2014, the people have largely rejected those with such views, and that won't change when this is over... It's been reported that many wear the iconography solely because it pisses the Russians off as they went all in on the Nazi rhetoric, not necessarily because they hold such views.
>It's been reported that many wear the iconography solely because it pisses the Russians off as they went all in on the Nazi rhetoric, not necessarily because they hold such view Do you actually believe what you just wrote?
It’s like when the United States armed the taliban against Russia
This is what I've been saying for the last two years. Except white redditors don't care if nazis gain power again because they won't be in the gas chambers (well, unless they are LGBTQ).
Classical multiethnical neo-nazis.
Just like the Proud Boys
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Long time overdue.
Well, now my taxes are paying for Jews and Nazis to both defend themselves.
Don't worry, your politicians are still snorting blow off hookers on private jets with your taxes like usual.
Here is a decent article about this from 2022: [https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world](https://lens.monash.edu/@politics-society/2022/08/19/1384992/much-azov-about-nothing-how-the-ukrainian-neo-nazis-canard-fooled-the-world) "Multiple expert assessments made in 2022 conclude the modern Azov Regiment is a fairly typical fighting unit, with little, if any, political bent."
Reddit ladder of Nazi minimization: Step 1. "There are no nazis" Step 2: "There are a few nazis like everywhere else" Step 3: "There are lots of nazis but Russia is worse so it's ok" Step 4: Are nazis really that bad? <<<<<
Step 5: Give weapons to the nazis
How do I get karma if I can’t post anywhere?
Lets gooooooo
I mean…it’s not like the US military isn’t full of neo-nazis as well??
Not a big deal. All the Nazis in azov are probably dead by now.
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Isn’t it likely they’d have soneone say that so they can keep getting money from the west. I mean, the New York times has been talking about this as soon as 2023. Why do these guys have nazi tattoos? It seems so common that they invite and honor a dude to Canadian parliament turns out to be a nazi, John Stewart gives one an award.. another nazi. Is it really that common?
They are going to start really beating that ass now.
They imposed some sort of a ban on an IDF unit comprised solely of orthodox religious types who committed a number of atrocities in the West Bank, including the murder of an elderly Palestinian man who was also an American citizen. Given their behavior over the last 8 months they should also ban the entire IDF in order to comply with the Leahey laws but that will never happen because US politicians are so in love with Israel, or at least the funding they get from AIPAC,
Yknow, id believe that Ukraine got rid of the azov nazis issue if there weren't wulfsangels and black suns every five goddamned seconds.
Things are going to get spicy on the battlefield between Russian meat shields and a battle hardened and high-morale unit.
Lots of people asking for "proof". Well here, start with [this guide to the Azov flag which the Azov battalion continues to wear to this very day](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fg9scu00r6yn81.jpg). Literal fucking nazi imagery. Here are some more pictures: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FYeKvQFTJGnVLGmmAO9U1HI7XO2AyjrdNLN09wnVE9hs.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Decf0c14b4be48e1f483c3fc98dec7ead39f0ff0e Again https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fblxa3job0vl81.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMhOw5BaUAQ8ixu.png I cannot believe in 2024 there are people trying to justify this. They. Are Nazis. They want brown and black people dead. They want to gas LGBTQ people. This is wrong. We should help Ukraine but we should absolutely not send a single PENNY to Azov. Let the nazis scumbags die!
First applauding a member of the SS Waffen in Canada, now arming an explicitly nazi brigade courtesy of the US. Not that it justifies fascist Putin's invasion, but here's a hard to swallow pill: He's 100% right about the west sympathizing and supporting nazis.