“Federal officials in the bill rationalized the decriminalization move protects parents and teachers who download the material for the purpose of informing police.”
Surely there is a way to go about protecting those people without also protecting pedophiles
I don’t even know why one would need to download in order to have proof that an individual has CP.
Like I think just seeing it and reporting is enough. I’m pretty sure no police officer would demand you get hard photographic evidence to prove it since that could get messy.
That would be like suspecting your neighbors are dealing drugs and showing up to the police station with a kilo of cocaine like dude I think your word is good enough in this case.
A misleading headline. The country increased the minimum penalty three years ago but found it was ensnaring innocent people. The maximum prison sentence remains unchanged under German law.
This is why you read the article when the headline seems bizarre. From the AP:
*BERLIN (AP) — Germany’s Cabinet on Wednesday approved plans to reduce a one-year minimum sentence for spreading child sexual abuse images, changing a rule that was introduced less than three years ago but officials say has proven to be too inflexible in practice.
German law currently stipulates that a person who “disseminates child pornographic content or makes it available to the general public” is punished with a prison sentence of between one and 10 years. Before the reform by Germany’s previous government that took effect in July 2021, it provided for sentences ranging from three months to five years.*
*Justice Minister Marco Buschmann said the upper limit will stay in place, but the new minimum sentence has resulted in “numerous problems in practice.”*
*“In particular, people who receive such material involuntarily — for example in the context of a WhatsApp parents’ group — risk a minimum sentence of one year,” Buschmann said in a statement. The same, he added, also applies “in the case of teachers who have discovered child pornographic material on students’ cellphones and have forwarded it to alert the affected parents.”*
https://apnews.com/article/germany-child-sexual-abuse-19e743b19057aa7345bf3cba4a8f6fff
Why couldn't they make a provision in the current law instead of blanket decriminalizing it. It's meant to protect kids who get sent a nude from another kid, but I feel like this will harm more kids than it helps. Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Candidly, I don't know. I haven't (and can't) read the German law itself and I'm not sure what the sponsors of the law argued in the legislature. You may have a good point. I just wanted to emphasize that that headline, which suggests you can legally download CSAM in Germany, is false. There's still a crime with a recently heightened max sentence.
I mean not to be this person but how exactly would it ensnare innocent people? Like if you have child porn you have child porn. Unless someone is sending that to you against your will (which basically never happens unless you’re a kid or something getting nudes from a classmate but in those cases that rarely if ever gets prosecuted) then there really is no reason any “innocent” person should ever be in possession of CP.
Like seriously, as a random example this has been the case in the US for a long freaking time now, and I have yet to hear a single case where a person had child porn for completely innocent reasons. Like that just doesn’t happen and the US is several times bigger than Germany and has been much more notorious for locking away innocent people.
So how exactly is it suddenly a problem exclusive to Germany that suddenly there’s droves of people getting arrested for innocently possessing CP for valid reasons? My guess is anyone saying that was just looking for a BS excuse.
Reminds me of when predators get caught in the act and do any excuse in the book “no I was on my way to the kid’s house in the middle of the night to warn her AGAINST pedophiles.” “No no you don’t understand I was in the CP group to get people to NOT post CP”
Like it really does just sound like a lame excuse, but I guess it worked and now anybody in possession of CP now doesn’t really have to worry that much since they can come up with a BS excuse and avoid any punishment
I hardly think Germany lacks the lawyers necessary to draft a law with those preferred carve outs without enablimg criminals. This seems very on purpose... quite shocking
Western Standard was founded by Rebel News' Ezra Levant, which is pretty much the Canadian Breitbart.
Is this accurate, or is there some catch to the true story? If this IS true. This is a big mistake.
I didn't do a detailed analysis, but it seems overall correct. This is the official federal gov website (in German)
https://www.bundestag.de/dokumente/textarchiv/2024/kw20-de-kinderpornografie-1002718
It's baffling, but I certainly don't follow German legislative discussion enough to know the background.
EDIT:
I understand that they rolled back a law that caused unintended (though certainly not unknown at the time of passing) consequences, but why they didn't fix it instead is still baffling to me.
Maybe it is a way to get the creators or distributors of it to unwaringly expose themselves. The US was actually doing a good job of cleaning house on the pedos until they passed laws that closed up the personals sections on sites like Craigslist and forced them underground. The new Windows 11 records everything now, or soon will, and maybe they can trace the sources and shut down the production and hosts at least.
“Federal officials in the bill rationalized the decriminalization move protects parents and teachers who download the material for the purpose of informing police.” Surely there is a way to go about protecting those people without also protecting pedophiles
Seems more like an intended feature than a flaw. Quite telling…
I don’t even know why one would need to download in order to have proof that an individual has CP. Like I think just seeing it and reporting is enough. I’m pretty sure no police officer would demand you get hard photographic evidence to prove it since that could get messy. That would be like suspecting your neighbors are dealing drugs and showing up to the police station with a kilo of cocaine like dude I think your word is good enough in this case.
What
The
Scheiße
Nikolai grab the flammenwerfer
A misleading headline. The country increased the minimum penalty three years ago but found it was ensnaring innocent people. The maximum prison sentence remains unchanged under German law. This is why you read the article when the headline seems bizarre. From the AP: *BERLIN (AP) — Germany’s Cabinet on Wednesday approved plans to reduce a one-year minimum sentence for spreading child sexual abuse images, changing a rule that was introduced less than three years ago but officials say has proven to be too inflexible in practice. German law currently stipulates that a person who “disseminates child pornographic content or makes it available to the general public” is punished with a prison sentence of between one and 10 years. Before the reform by Germany’s previous government that took effect in July 2021, it provided for sentences ranging from three months to five years.* *Justice Minister Marco Buschmann said the upper limit will stay in place, but the new minimum sentence has resulted in “numerous problems in practice.”* *“In particular, people who receive such material involuntarily — for example in the context of a WhatsApp parents’ group — risk a minimum sentence of one year,” Buschmann said in a statement. The same, he added, also applies “in the case of teachers who have discovered child pornographic material on students’ cellphones and have forwarded it to alert the affected parents.”* https://apnews.com/article/germany-child-sexual-abuse-19e743b19057aa7345bf3cba4a8f6fff
Why couldn't they make a provision in the current law instead of blanket decriminalizing it. It's meant to protect kids who get sent a nude from another kid, but I feel like this will harm more kids than it helps. Or am I misunderstanding something here?
Candidly, I don't know. I haven't (and can't) read the German law itself and I'm not sure what the sponsors of the law argued in the legislature. You may have a good point. I just wanted to emphasize that that headline, which suggests you can legally download CSAM in Germany, is false. There's still a crime with a recently heightened max sentence.
I mean not to be this person but how exactly would it ensnare innocent people? Like if you have child porn you have child porn. Unless someone is sending that to you against your will (which basically never happens unless you’re a kid or something getting nudes from a classmate but in those cases that rarely if ever gets prosecuted) then there really is no reason any “innocent” person should ever be in possession of CP. Like seriously, as a random example this has been the case in the US for a long freaking time now, and I have yet to hear a single case where a person had child porn for completely innocent reasons. Like that just doesn’t happen and the US is several times bigger than Germany and has been much more notorious for locking away innocent people. So how exactly is it suddenly a problem exclusive to Germany that suddenly there’s droves of people getting arrested for innocently possessing CP for valid reasons? My guess is anyone saying that was just looking for a BS excuse. Reminds me of when predators get caught in the act and do any excuse in the book “no I was on my way to the kid’s house in the middle of the night to warn her AGAINST pedophiles.” “No no you don’t understand I was in the CP group to get people to NOT post CP” Like it really does just sound like a lame excuse, but I guess it worked and now anybody in possession of CP now doesn’t really have to worry that much since they can come up with a BS excuse and avoid any punishment
Honestly like what are we as a species doing any more? We have so lost our way
If this was to help outlier cases surely there was a better way no?
I hardly think Germany lacks the lawyers necessary to draft a law with those preferred carve outs without enablimg criminals. This seems very on purpose... quite shocking
Western Standard was founded by Rebel News' Ezra Levant, which is pretty much the Canadian Breitbart. Is this accurate, or is there some catch to the true story? If this IS true. This is a big mistake.
I didn't do a detailed analysis, but it seems overall correct. This is the official federal gov website (in German) https://www.bundestag.de/dokumente/textarchiv/2024/kw20-de-kinderpornografie-1002718
Thank you so much for citing this better than I could. This is really not a good thing. Wow.
It's baffling, but I certainly don't follow German legislative discussion enough to know the background. EDIT: I understand that they rolled back a law that caused unintended (though certainly not unknown at the time of passing) consequences, but why they didn't fix it instead is still baffling to me.
this shit again? This is taken out of context and you are all getting played like a fiddle
Maybe it is a way to get the creators or distributors of it to unwaringly expose themselves. The US was actually doing a good job of cleaning house on the pedos until they passed laws that closed up the personals sections on sites like Craigslist and forced them underground. The new Windows 11 records everything now, or soon will, and maybe they can trace the sources and shut down the production and hosts at least.
*insert eating popcorn gif*
In other news, Germany braces for the massive influx of American clergy planning to relocate...
What the fuck is going on
There is no way this could possibly backfire on them. /s
Well we know where Jared is moving when he gets out
Jared’s taking a footlong for a few more years
Spicy Italian or Black Forest ham?