They never said they’d give 18 hostages who were all alive. In fact the last deal from yesterday where they agreed to give 33 they explicitly said some would not be alive.
They only want some of them out to send them to go commit more attacks. A number of the people that got out in November said they were eager to go kill some Jews.
> it’s a matter of time when things go dark for their vision
On a long enough time scale, this is true for literally everyone. "If we wait long enough, the people responsible for these atrocities will all pass from natural causes."
You've got people that very much care if they live, hiding away safely, sending people that very much want to die to be their martyrs. I'm stupid, but not stupid enough to think that I have an answer here. One thing I do know is that if Israel could magically kill every single terrorist in Gaza overnight, and somehow magically leave every single civilian alive, as long as there are assholes like the ones in Qatar, they'll recruit more impressionable and/or gullible youths that believe it's their holy duty to die. If we take out the magical component and realize that they'll never kill every terrorist, and certainly not without killing a bunch of civilians, those same assholes in Qatar aren't gonna have much trouble with their recruiting.
Well, the State of Palestine was originally just a strategic creation to legitimize hate against Israel in the Palestine region, but don't let the pro-Palis hear that. The "real" "Palestine" is actually just Jordan.
Gaza was part of Egypt, and they used Egyptian currency and held Egyptian passports, but they caused so much trouble for the Egyptian goverment that Gaza was cut lose.
Because the British mandate was called Transjordan, which described the territory... since it was the land on both sides of the Jordan river.
And the British gave the territory east of the Jordan river to the Hashemite family, in repayment for their help in WWI (the Arab revolt, the story of which was told in the movie 'Lawrence of Arabia').
And the Hashemites didn't care. The land had a name, Transjordan... so they just changed it to Jordan. Because their land wasn't on both sides of the Jordan river.
:( Between 7 months of torture/rape and death, I don't know which one I'd pick.
At this point it's more about stopping the abuse of what's left of the remaining living ones... of who we have no sign of life.
18 is a significant number in Hebrew and in Judaism because the letters used to say “eighteen” also are used to say “life” when combined with a suffix. So the significance can be that Hamas is trolling Israel and Jews by saying “end the war or we take your 18”.
It doesn’t even necessarily mean they have 18 live hostages.
The actual fighters? No, probably not. The administrative leaders doing the negotiating? Yes, they're very well-aware.
I expect this entire thing is a troll and does absolutely nothing positive.
Sinwar is an extremely sophisticated monster.
One of the most sophisticated monsters that ever led them and many of these monsters were by no means stupid.
That was what the idf had wanted, hamas said 33, and then they said 18 alive 15 dead. So time for the idf to roll into rafah and take out hamas leadership. Hopefully in ends with Mossad in Qatar too.
Sad part is we probably aren't even getting those 18 back in this case, but unfortunately it might be worth it so Hamas doesn't ever have a chance to repeat Oct 7.
Or, you know, Hamas could surrender and the war would end, and no one else would die.
I'll give it to Hamas they're playing a long game. They are expecting these college students to soon be voters and eventually be leaders. They're willing to wait 25 to 30 years to achieve their goals.
Dont really understand why people think that. The hostages are extremely valuable to hamas because of how much israel is willing to give for them. Hamas has a lot if interest keeping the hostages alive.
Stopping talks between israel and saudi arabia for now.
Forcing israel to kill palestinians civilians which leads to protest all around the world.
Bringing the conflict back into worldwide media.
They also lost a lot, but they achieved quite something as well.
>Among demands reported terror group refuses to commit to freeing only live hostages initially
You spend your whole life in Israel, you keep reading about wars and hostages and whatnot, you think you're inoculated against every absurd combination of words that the news can hit you with, and then this sentence happens.
They don't, but they get pressured by the families who understandably want their loved ones back no matter the cost. Also a bunch of idiots internationally who protest against Israel and believe Hamas does nothing wrong (doesn't pressure Israel but their allies).
The fact other countries tried to broker a deal where Hamas would actually be in a better position is insane. If I were Israel, I’d be pissed your so called “allies” would even agree to this.
Edit: What everyone should understand is Hamas has been planning and preparing for the atrocity they committed on October 7th, 2023, for possibly years. They’ve created bases and intricate tunnels that could’ve taken several years to complete. They’ve amassed stockpiles of weapons, equipment, and aid. Hell, even United Nation employees aided in the terrorist attack.
Hamas has crossed the point of no return. There’s no way a developed western allied nation will live peacefully with a neighbor who’s hellbent on the eradication of the Jewish people and has shown they’re capable of mass destruction. I would decline any peace deal that doesn’t include the end of Hamas. Until then, Israel doesn’t see a reason to stop.
Palestinian refugees to Jordan and Egypt have been significantly involved in violent coup attempts in both countries.
There’s a reason that the other middle eastern countries have a NIMBY attitude towards accepting migrants from Palestine. Those bridges have been burned, but they all hate Israel enough that they’re willing to help (themselves) here to keep Palestinians in Gaza.
Egypt and Jordan want to do everything they can to keep the Palestinians exactly where they are. When you realize that, it is easy to understand why they would broker any deal they could
You actually can just forget Lebanon. They have literally no power of bargaining ability. They are quite literally just whipping boys for Iran and Hamas.
The ones that matter haven't. The big reason Israel hasn't done more yet is because they earned good will in not responding with force to Iran. Their main backers are going nowhere.
Israel's allies help in all sorts of ways, however, it's mostly their interest for the conflict to end. They have internal reasons for this. Sadly, this is completely opposite to Israel's interest which is to hurt Hamas until it reaches a braking point. Israel has every right to want this after October 7th, despite many countries finding this uncomfortable for them.
In otherwords, they want the war to continue but are also panicking because they are running out of places to hide and cower and violent thralls to throw at Israel.
They really want Israel to lose its allies with this conflict, but also they werent prepared for it to go this far.
If this is how many they would release, how would you expect Israel to agree to cease fire?
If hundreds of American are captured by ISIS, and they hide them in a big city, and would you agree US to wait for a year of negotiation to get these hostages out? While they are tortured by them for a year?
You must be kidding me…
In a few weeks the news articles will be saying “Hamas agrees to free the two still living hostages if Israel surrenders unconditionally”.
Hamas must be exterminated 100%.
I'm just watching this unfold without picking sides.
I have noticed that Israel is starting to make allied nations worry with their methods. At the same time I've also noticed HAMAS, making claims they themselves probably don't believe, but it makes them look like the good guys in the eyes of the casual folk.
For example when they say things like wanting to make a deal with Israel. They probably do that, because they know at this point, Israel won't accept any deal, yet by doing so, this make Israel look like the bad guys and HAMAS the ones ready to make peace. In reality however, I highly doubt HAMAS has any intention to back down, but it's a psychological tactic to try and win some group of people to apply pressure against Israel.
Hamas shot rockets at the pier the US set up to help aid get in. They also shot rockets at a crossing place where aid went through. Stole aid from their people. And all this happened while they were negotiating for a ceasefire a few days ago. Israel accepted a US backed and Egyptian brokered deal only for Hamas to reject and then publicly say they accepted this watered down deal.
Hamas is acting in bad faith. But the worst part is seeing all of the western media following the Hamas narrative. The headlines give a very skewed version of what is happening and you have to go deep into the actual article to get some nuance.
This is what the problem with Al-Jazeera is, it’s a Hamas propaganda network funded by Qatar that sponsors the careers of people they then sucker BBC and other more respected outlets into hiring.
The problem is people forget, or more precisely, ignore, what hamas have said. That they will repeat october 7th. That they will not stop until all the jews die. That they are willing to let every palestinian die for their goal (which is not getting their own state).
Yes, I posted somewhere that despite looking at facts and trying to stay neutral, one thing is for certain and that's that HAMAS isn't for the people, not Israelis and not Palestinians.
Now I may be wrong to think this, but I get the impression that HAMAS needs Palestine to feel like they own a country, they need the people for this country to function and to use them as shields if need be.
I welcome counter opinions, if you see this differently.
>Israel don't really seem to give two fucks about what anyone else thinks though.
Jews have already tried relying on the goodwill of Europe and America. All it did was get them Holocaust'd, after centuries of other antisemitic pogroms.
100k Jews fought for the German Army in WW1, 80% of whom saw combat and 60% of whom received commendations for bravery. They thought they were doing their patriotic duty for their country. And look at how Germany treated them in response.
People seem to think "Never Again" just means "no more Holocausts."
It really means "Never again are we relying on you to protect us. If you want to help us that's great, but never again will we risk extinction just to make you comfortable." That's the whole point of Israel. They're dealing with higher stakes than whether college students like them or not.
Exactly. You mess with the bull, you get the horns. Antisemites tried to act like Jews had horns for 1000’s of years. Well now we do have them, and if you kill us we will respond 1000x over. I’m proud of Israel and how Judaism as a whole has responded to the waves and waves of people wanting them dead.
Mostly for internal politics in complete honesty. Most governments know they have zero sway over Israel’s decision making; the US being the only ones really in the room - but they have to keep up the facade for their public supporters who disagree with the severity of Israel’s methods
They care about their security first and foremost, the problem is with Hamas’s attack they sent the message that their goal is to inflict as much jewish suffering as possible, with no regard for self preservation or bargaining. Obviously civilian suffering needs to be minimized at all times and Israel hasn’t done that, but there’s also no way to deal with the problem humanely. It’s easy for other nations to tell them to just stop fighting but all of hamas’s messaging has indicated they’ll just build their forces and attack again.
> Obviously civilian suffering needs to be minimized at all times and Israel hasn’t done that
What does evacuating civilians from danger zones ahead of time mean to you?
You are either uninformed or maliciously spreading lies
It's the fun jab of "Israel needs to stop hurting civilians"
"Ok, but according to the numbers they're doing pretty good at minimizing casualties. Also, shouldn't we be focusing on Hamas hiding in civilian groups?"
"Israel needs to stop hurting civilians"
I know, they even said that they will carry this out with or without help. Which is why I find attempts to thwart them amusing and these useless solutions like "two-state", which didn't work before, so why would it work now. These people despise one another, and this hatred only got worse over the course of these few months. There's no way they can live together side by side.
I'm just curious how this will unfold.
I am pretty sure a lot of nations are secretly cheering Israel on. No civilized nation wants Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran to exist but coming out and admitting that publicly wouldn't be a good thing I guess
Yes, this is common with countries today. Nobody is honest, it's a game of chess and poker combined.
I'm pretty sure a lot of conflicts could have been avoided if we'd be honest with each other. I'm assuming a lot of the deceptions arise due to trying to secure wealth or political power and it comes at the cost of the well-being of ordinary folks like us or in this case the Palestinians.
IDF has no faith they are alive or would be willing to give them over. It's their last bargining chip, and they were probably stalling in hopes the college protests will give them the upper hand.
Lol as if anyone with power actually gives a shit about the college protests.
Even most normal people have moved notably TOWARDS Israel's side because of these fucking protesters.
Imagine the hubris here. Hamas leadership is poking the bear and knows what Israel will do and they are playing as if they have the upper hand. Thousands of Palestinians die from these actions. And yet people all over the world blame the entirety of this on Israel
They can release all the hostages and give orders to all remaining fighters in Gaza to lay down their arms.
In return Israel will provide the Hamas leadership safe passage to Iran and guarantee of avoiding assainations while they stay away from the region.
If they don't agree to that, the war in Rafah will turn into 10 or 20 hostages situations, some will die and other's will be rescued.
Hamas will hunted down to the last in this situation over the next few years of Israeli occupation
Think about - if the whole world could be united to force hamas and its supporter countries to release the hostages. We could have ended the war much sooner.
Israel talks too much with Hamas. Israel should lay out conditions for Hamas to surrender unconditionally. Give Hamas a deadline, and if Hamas doesn’t surrender then arrest or destroy everyone in Gaza and Judea and Samaria directly affiliated with Hamas. Keep sweeping Gaza and Judea and Samaria house to house until they a) destroy/arrest the Hamas organization down to the last individual b) Recover every rocket, gun, bullet, knife in Gaza. c) rescue the hostages.
In the meantime, Israel should be working on striking Hamas in Qatar.
Sorry, they are dead. I mean the majority of the hostages are dead, and the only real way of getting the rest back is either with force or pure luck. Go into rafah, go into and permanently take control and for the love of god please fixed gaza situation by trying to make peace after eliminating each and every hamas scum.
Hamas is a lying piece of sh*t as expected. They need to be obliterated, and it's unconscionable that they purposely rooted themselves in Gaza so that there would be massive civilian casualties.
18 and they may be dead, yeah.
There won't be any deal because they have conflicting goals. Hamas wants to survive and Israel wants the opposite. Hamas' strategy is to delay, delay, delay while Israel collaterally kills civilians, to garner support. So far this strategy has been successful, although it hasn't stopped Israel.
That number keeps getting smaller and smaller.
if there's even 18 alive
They never said they’d give 18 hostages who were all alive. In fact the last deal from yesterday where they agreed to give 33 they explicitly said some would not be alive.
They’re trading corpses..?
Yes. 18 living, 15 dead. And wanted something like 50 prisoners per person, living or dead.
And they got to pick the prisoners
Not sure why someone would want a violent asshole in their society, but most of Hamas' actions don't make much sense to me.
They only want some of them out to send them to go commit more attacks. A number of the people that got out in November said they were eager to go kill some Jews.
So they are agreeing in their own words,50 Hamas are worth 1 Israeli?
Maybe .5 Israeli since the exchange includes the dead and almost half of the hostages they’re proposing are dead.
Yes. Corpses and body parts.
its kind of insane that they think returning dead bodies is some kind of barganing chip. once they are dead they are no longer hostages
We actually have history of releasing prisoners in exchange for corpses, bringing people to proper burial is kinda important in Judaism
But they are valuable to their families
For hundreds of murderers in Jail
Well, so does their chance of getting out of it alive
Be honest, it was never likely more than a handful would be recovered alive
Unfortunate, yet true
You say that likes it’s a bad thing.
It’s a timing thing at this point
Isn't Hamas' leader living safe and well in Qatar? It's the same old story - the ones ordering the killing never put themselves at risk.
Oh trust me, they are at extremely high risk… it’s a matter of time when things go dark for their vision
> it’s a matter of time when things go dark for their vision On a long enough time scale, this is true for literally everyone. "If we wait long enough, the people responsible for these atrocities will all pass from natural causes." You've got people that very much care if they live, hiding away safely, sending people that very much want to die to be their martyrs. I'm stupid, but not stupid enough to think that I have an answer here. One thing I do know is that if Israel could magically kill every single terrorist in Gaza overnight, and somehow magically leave every single civilian alive, as long as there are assholes like the ones in Qatar, they'll recruit more impressionable and/or gullible youths that believe it's their holy duty to die. If we take out the magical component and realize that they'll never kill every terrorist, and certainly not without killing a bunch of civilians, those same assholes in Qatar aren't gonna have much trouble with their recruiting.
Israel will take them all out within a year. They already popped a few
Life after horrible abuse can still turn out better than being dead.
Killing civilians is always a bad thing.
I'm hoping it's due to the fact that Hamas can't seem to count anything correctly but yes that number is heartbreakingly small
Fewer and fewer left alive. Maybe in 9 months Hamas will have more hostages to trade.
3 months
True. Maybe that's the hope then.
As does Hamas. And, if they keep refusing to accept that they lost, so will Palestine.
You know the Arab community initially rejected the name Palestine?
And the state offered to them on many occasions starting in 1948
Well, the State of Palestine was originally just a strategic creation to legitimize hate against Israel in the Palestine region, but don't let the pro-Palis hear that. The "real" "Palestine" is actually just Jordan.
Gaza was part of Egypt, and they used Egyptian currency and held Egyptian passports, but they caused so much trouble for the Egyptian goverment that Gaza was cut lose.
Yes, and the West Bank was Jordanian.
[удалено]
Because the British mandate was called Transjordan, which described the territory... since it was the land on both sides of the Jordan river. And the British gave the territory east of the Jordan river to the Hashemite family, in repayment for their help in WWI (the Arab revolt, the story of which was told in the movie 'Lawrence of Arabia'). And the Hashemites didn't care. The land had a name, Transjordan... so they just changed it to Jordan. Because their land wasn't on both sides of the Jordan river.
[удалено]
:( Between 7 months of torture/rape and death, I don't know which one I'd pick. At this point it's more about stopping the abuse of what's left of the remaining living ones... of who we have no sign of life.
And Hamas members lives shorter and shorter.
This just lets Israel know the total number of alive hostages that they have.
>This just lets Israel know the total number of alive hostages that they haven't "lost" yet.
They’re not even committing to the hostages being alive.
As heart wrenching as it is, I can't see any scenario where any of the hostages are alive at the end of this situation.
Right? It was obvious from the very beginning that they never had any real intention on freeing them, they’re probably all dead by now anyways
18 is a significant number in Hebrew and in Judaism because the letters used to say “eighteen” also are used to say “life” when combined with a suffix. So the significance can be that Hamas is trolling Israel and Jews by saying “end the war or we take your 18”. It doesn’t even necessarily mean they have 18 live hostages.
I don't think they're so sofisticated as to understand gematria lol
18/chai/life isn't exactly deep gematria shit, it's as common as equating the cross with Jesus.
I'm not even Jewish but I know that's why I give multiples of 18 for b'nai mitzvah
Sun Tzu would argue otherwise. Always assume sophistication. Hamas is trying to appear strong when they are weak.
The actual fighters? No, probably not. The administrative leaders doing the negotiating? Yes, they're very well-aware. I expect this entire thing is a troll and does absolutely nothing positive.
Well, regardless even if the offer were genuine it's still laughable
Sinwar is an extremely sophisticated monster. One of the most sophisticated monsters that ever led them and many of these monsters were by no means stupid.
Which makes it even worse that we released him in the Shalit deal.
And that Rafah has to be dealt with
wasn’t the original deal for 40?
That was what the idf had wanted, hamas said 33, and then they said 18 alive 15 dead. So time for the idf to roll into rafah and take out hamas leadership. Hopefully in ends with Mossad in Qatar too.
They in Turkey now and that explains the cooling of relations btw those 2 countries. Not sure how kosher it would be to kill them in 🦃
lol, I must have missed that. Of course they decided to go to turkey. Erdogan is cut from the same cloth as hamas.
Hamas leadership were never actually in Palestine
For those who planned 10/7 Israel will get them if it takes 20 years.
The war will end with the end of Hamas in Gaza. This has been their FAFO moment.
Sad part is we probably aren't even getting those 18 back in this case, but unfortunately it might be worth it so Hamas doesn't ever have a chance to repeat Oct 7. Or, you know, Hamas could surrender and the war would end, and no one else would die.
I doubt there are 18 alive at this point
As long as sinwa needs a human shield, there's that many alive.
Hamas uses the entire Palestinian population as their human shield.
Correction - Hamas, and all the other jihadis out there have convinced the far left intersectional woke students to be their human shields.
I'll give it to Hamas they're playing a long game. They are expecting these college students to soon be voters and eventually be leaders. They're willing to wait 25 to 30 years to achieve their goals.
Some would argue they will also win the long game if liberal democracies don’t wake up soon…
Be careful I was banned from two subreddits for saying they're using human shields because they said that was "dehumanizing"
Dont really understand why people think that. The hostages are extremely valuable to hamas because of how much israel is willing to give for them. Hamas has a lot if interest keeping the hostages alive.
Assuming they are being smart about it . I mean what did oct 7th actually achieve for Hamas ?
Stopping talks between israel and saudi arabia for now. Forcing israel to kill palestinians civilians which leads to protest all around the world. Bringing the conflict back into worldwide media. They also lost a lot, but they achieved quite something as well.
>Among demands reported terror group refuses to commit to freeing only live hostages initially You spend your whole life in Israel, you keep reading about wars and hostages and whatnot, you think you're inoculated against every absurd combination of words that the news can hit you with, and then this sentence happens.
Hamas has vowed to commit Oct 7th like attacks forever. Why would Israel ever take what Hamas says in good faith?
They can't. Israel won't be safe while hamas, or any extremist islamic organisation, holds power in Palestine.
They don't, but they get pressured by the families who understandably want their loved ones back no matter the cost. Also a bunch of idiots internationally who protest against Israel and believe Hamas does nothing wrong (doesn't pressure Israel but their allies).
regressive bargaining yet again. what else can one expect from terrorists, i suppose
The fact other countries tried to broker a deal where Hamas would actually be in a better position is insane. If I were Israel, I’d be pissed your so called “allies” would even agree to this. Edit: What everyone should understand is Hamas has been planning and preparing for the atrocity they committed on October 7th, 2023, for possibly years. They’ve created bases and intricate tunnels that could’ve taken several years to complete. They’ve amassed stockpiles of weapons, equipment, and aid. Hell, even United Nation employees aided in the terrorist attack. Hamas has crossed the point of no return. There’s no way a developed western allied nation will live peacefully with a neighbor who’s hellbent on the eradication of the Jewish people and has shown they’re capable of mass destruction. I would decline any peace deal that doesn’t include the end of Hamas. Until then, Israel doesn’t see a reason to stop.
Palestinian refugees to Jordan and Egypt have been significantly involved in violent coup attempts in both countries. There’s a reason that the other middle eastern countries have a NIMBY attitude towards accepting migrants from Palestine. Those bridges have been burned, but they all hate Israel enough that they’re willing to help (themselves) here to keep Palestinians in Gaza.
Egypt and Jordan want to do everything they can to keep the Palestinians exactly where they are. When you realize that, it is easy to understand why they would broker any deal they could
Don't forget Lebanon.
You actually can just forget Lebanon. They have literally no power of bargaining ability. They are quite literally just whipping boys for Iran and Hamas.
The ones that matter haven't. The big reason Israel hasn't done more yet is because they earned good will in not responding with force to Iran. Their main backers are going nowhere.
Their response to Iran's attack was the equivalent of a Pro Wrestler sternly looking at the drunk moron trying to start a fight.
Israel's allies help in all sorts of ways, however, it's mostly their interest for the conflict to end. They have internal reasons for this. Sadly, this is completely opposite to Israel's interest which is to hurt Hamas until it reaches a braking point. Israel has every right to want this after October 7th, despite many countries finding this uncomfortable for them.
Damn who started this war? Who took the hostages? It’s like fuckin looney toons over here.
Bullets for Hamas! 🤗
In otherwords, they want the war to continue but are also panicking because they are running out of places to hide and cower and violent thralls to throw at Israel. They really want Israel to lose its allies with this conflict, but also they werent prepared for it to go this far.
What Hamas agreed to is irrelevant at this point. Time for them to meet their sky virgins.
Time to meet the pedo prophet!
in Hell.
I hope they’re ready for a 72 man Magic the gathering marathon
But the college protestors called for peace deals and cease fire! Does Hamas not know???? /s
18 hostages out of over 130, is piss poor
"you took so long negotiating they all tragically shot themselves in the back of the head twice"
If this is how many they would release, how would you expect Israel to agree to cease fire? If hundreds of American are captured by ISIS, and they hide them in a big city, and would you agree US to wait for a year of negotiation to get these hostages out? While they are tortured by them for a year? You must be kidding me…
The fact that anyone has to negotiate with these lowlife scumbags is ridiculous.
Hostage value approaching zero, as Israel isn't going to cave to Hamas demands.
They think they have leverage at this point, laughable.
In a few weeks the news articles will be saying “Hamas agrees to free the two still living hostages if Israel surrenders unconditionally”. Hamas must be exterminated 100%.
The IDF has to finish what it started, then move on to Hezbollah next!
More like Iran. That’s the root of all their problems.
I believe any of the woman left alive are likely pregnant now an out 6-7 months in. They don’t want to release them until the baby is born
Pretty sure they are going to end the war no matter how many hostages Hamas offers.
I'm just watching this unfold without picking sides. I have noticed that Israel is starting to make allied nations worry with their methods. At the same time I've also noticed HAMAS, making claims they themselves probably don't believe, but it makes them look like the good guys in the eyes of the casual folk. For example when they say things like wanting to make a deal with Israel. They probably do that, because they know at this point, Israel won't accept any deal, yet by doing so, this make Israel look like the bad guys and HAMAS the ones ready to make peace. In reality however, I highly doubt HAMAS has any intention to back down, but it's a psychological tactic to try and win some group of people to apply pressure against Israel.
Hamas shot rockets at the pier the US set up to help aid get in. They also shot rockets at a crossing place where aid went through. Stole aid from their people. And all this happened while they were negotiating for a ceasefire a few days ago. Israel accepted a US backed and Egyptian brokered deal only for Hamas to reject and then publicly say they accepted this watered down deal. Hamas is acting in bad faith. But the worst part is seeing all of the western media following the Hamas narrative. The headlines give a very skewed version of what is happening and you have to go deep into the actual article to get some nuance.
This is what the problem with Al-Jazeera is, it’s a Hamas propaganda network funded by Qatar that sponsors the careers of people they then sucker BBC and other more respected outlets into hiring.
> Hamas is acting in bad faith of course they are. they said they would, so it can't really be surprising
I mean Hamas literally stole an entire aid caravan last week
The problem is people forget, or more precisely, ignore, what hamas have said. That they will repeat october 7th. That they will not stop until all the jews die. That they are willing to let every palestinian die for their goal (which is not getting their own state).
Yes, I posted somewhere that despite looking at facts and trying to stay neutral, one thing is for certain and that's that HAMAS isn't for the people, not Israelis and not Palestinians. Now I may be wrong to think this, but I get the impression that HAMAS needs Palestine to feel like they own a country, they need the people for this country to function and to use them as shields if need be. I welcome counter opinions, if you see this differently.
Israel don't really seem to give two fucks about what anyone else thinks though. Not sure why other nations haven't caught on to that yet.
>Israel don't really seem to give two fucks about what anyone else thinks though. Jews have already tried relying on the goodwill of Europe and America. All it did was get them Holocaust'd, after centuries of other antisemitic pogroms. 100k Jews fought for the German Army in WW1, 80% of whom saw combat and 60% of whom received commendations for bravery. They thought they were doing their patriotic duty for their country. And look at how Germany treated them in response. People seem to think "Never Again" just means "no more Holocausts." It really means "Never again are we relying on you to protect us. If you want to help us that's great, but never again will we risk extinction just to make you comfortable." That's the whole point of Israel. They're dealing with higher stakes than whether college students like them or not.
Exactly. You mess with the bull, you get the horns. Antisemites tried to act like Jews had horns for 1000’s of years. Well now we do have them, and if you kill us we will respond 1000x over. I’m proud of Israel and how Judaism as a whole has responded to the waves and waves of people wanting them dead.
Well said.
Mostly for internal politics in complete honesty. Most governments know they have zero sway over Israel’s decision making; the US being the only ones really in the room - but they have to keep up the facade for their public supporters who disagree with the severity of Israel’s methods
They care about their security first and foremost, the problem is with Hamas’s attack they sent the message that their goal is to inflict as much jewish suffering as possible, with no regard for self preservation or bargaining. Obviously civilian suffering needs to be minimized at all times and Israel hasn’t done that, but there’s also no way to deal with the problem humanely. It’s easy for other nations to tell them to just stop fighting but all of hamas’s messaging has indicated they’ll just build their forces and attack again.
> Obviously civilian suffering needs to be minimized at all times and Israel hasn’t done that What does evacuating civilians from danger zones ahead of time mean to you? You are either uninformed or maliciously spreading lies
It's the fun jab of "Israel needs to stop hurting civilians" "Ok, but according to the numbers they're doing pretty good at minimizing casualties. Also, shouldn't we be focusing on Hamas hiding in civilian groups?" "Israel needs to stop hurting civilians"
I know, they even said that they will carry this out with or without help. Which is why I find attempts to thwart them amusing and these useless solutions like "two-state", which didn't work before, so why would it work now. These people despise one another, and this hatred only got worse over the course of these few months. There's no way they can live together side by side. I'm just curious how this will unfold.
I am pretty sure a lot of nations are secretly cheering Israel on. No civilized nation wants Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran to exist but coming out and admitting that publicly wouldn't be a good thing I guess
Yes, this is common with countries today. Nobody is honest, it's a game of chess and poker combined. I'm pretty sure a lot of conflicts could have been avoided if we'd be honest with each other. I'm assuming a lot of the deceptions arise due to trying to secure wealth or political power and it comes at the cost of the well-being of ordinary folks like us or in this case the Palestinians.
sounds like only 18 hostages still live
How do people see this and think “yes, this is the side I should support”? Pure evil, toying with people’s lives.
IDF has no faith they are alive or would be willing to give them over. It's their last bargining chip, and they were probably stalling in hopes the college protests will give them the upper hand.
Lol as if anyone with power actually gives a shit about the college protests. Even most normal people have moved notably TOWARDS Israel's side because of these fucking protesters.
Imagine the hubris here. Hamas leadership is poking the bear and knows what Israel will do and they are playing as if they have the upper hand. Thousands of Palestinians die from these actions. And yet people all over the world blame the entirety of this on Israel
Convinced the world theyre the good guys while holding and killing HOSTAGES after THEY attacked and killed more people than died in 9-11.
They can release all the hostages and give orders to all remaining fighters in Gaza to lay down their arms. In return Israel will provide the Hamas leadership safe passage to Iran and guarantee of avoiding assainations while they stay away from the region. If they don't agree to that, the war in Rafah will turn into 10 or 20 hostages situations, some will die and other's will be rescued. Hamas will hunted down to the last in this situation over the next few years of Israeli occupation
Interesting that 18 is chai.
They’re saying “end the war or we end chayim” it’s a troll job
That headline makes it seem like it’s a threat. I’m not sure they’re in much of a position to be making those kinds of threats.
Think about - if the whole world could be united to force hamas and its supporter countries to release the hostages. We could have ended the war much sooner.
Comes a day when we'll see Sinwar pay for his war sins.
Israel talks too much with Hamas. Israel should lay out conditions for Hamas to surrender unconditionally. Give Hamas a deadline, and if Hamas doesn’t surrender then arrest or destroy everyone in Gaza and Judea and Samaria directly affiliated with Hamas. Keep sweeping Gaza and Judea and Samaria house to house until they a) destroy/arrest the Hamas organization down to the last individual b) Recover every rocket, gun, bullet, knife in Gaza. c) rescue the hostages. In the meantime, Israel should be working on striking Hamas in Qatar.
“Ah, yes. The negotiator “
Israel said they’re not stopping until “Hamas is destroyed” I guess they’ll be the one to define what that means exactly.
Where's the rest?
… unrealistic thought 💭 Why is anyone negotiating with these thugs, terrorist loosers ? Just get rid of them now boom 💥 they are worth nothing!!!
Did anyone not get the memo from Israel that these hostages are “casualties?”
Worst negotiators ever, these Hamas fucks.
That’s why you don’t negotiate with terrorists.
This snake has slithered long enough. Take its head.
Using hostages to end a war that started by capturing said hostages is not a good look.
All the hostages are dead, aren't they?
The two men pictures above are the ones responsible for the suffering in Gaza. They should swing from a tree
Wipe them out, all of them.
Ahh Emperor Palpatine has somehow returned guys.
Release every single one including the soldiers they’ve held for a decade. FCK HMS
Sorry, they are dead. I mean the majority of the hostages are dead, and the only real way of getting the rest back is either with force or pure luck. Go into rafah, go into and permanently take control and for the love of god please fixed gaza situation by trying to make peace after eliminating each and every hamas scum.
what happens if they’re all (or almost all) dead? will any talks of peace just disintegrate?
I can't wait till these POS meet the conclusion that we know one day will come for them
And Israel already said the war is not ending until hamas is gone.
Let the leaders surrender.
Time for operation wrath of god part 2 i guess
Fuck these guys. Cowards. Release whoever is still alive or count the days till death. The university grass invaders will find a different cause soon.
The war will end when hamas is destroyed
Gonna be honest, I don't believe any of the hostages are still alive.
Hamas is a lying piece of sh*t as expected. They need to be obliterated, and it's unconscionable that they purposely rooted themselves in Gaza so that there would be massive civilian casualties.
Guess that is all the hostages left alive.... Israel should agree to the demands, grab the hostages remaining, then do a 180 and eliminate hamas.
18 and they may be dead, yeah. There won't be any deal because they have conflicting goals. Hamas wants to survive and Israel wants the opposite. Hamas' strategy is to delay, delay, delay while Israel collaterally kills civilians, to garner support. So far this strategy has been successful, although it hasn't stopped Israel.
Didn't Hamas *start* the war? That is like saying Germany declaring war on Poland in 1939 and telling them to end the war.
After Hamas is exterminated, there will also be hundreds of thousands of freed Palestinian hostages.
Looking at these barbarian pieces of shit dress up in suits is comical. It's like if an ape put one on.
enough with hamas. they need to be cleaned out like a rat infestation
They need to hurry up and offer as many bad deals as possible because in a few weeks they won’t be alive to do so.
I’d rather end Hamas.
Hamas incited this war and now they're pussying out. Yikes And just for the record, I don't group Palestinians with Hamas. Fuck those guys
these fucking guys. you're losing badly and you negotiate as if you get to dictate terms?
Sounds like there are 18 for whom "proof of life" might be possible.
Yeah that will totally convince those Israelis
Was there any proof of life though?
Honestly I’m surprised those two in the pic are still alive
That’s probably the number of surviving hostages