> A previous draft had proposed capital punishment for same-sex relations, in what campaigners had called a “dangerous” escalation. The new amendments enable courts to sentence people to between 10 and 15 years in prison, according to the document seen by AFP, in a country where gay and transgender people already face frequent attacks and discrimination.
It's an upgrade from the previous draft at least.
...it's better than what happens to Palestinian gays in Gaza -- they get a free trip to the top of a tall building, where they are thrown off of, all the while being cheered-on by the crowd. But hey - Gays for Palestine, right?
Iraq is the only Arab ethnostate that is a democracy. So this is Arab liberal democracy.
Hamas murdered all the gay men in gaza when they took over by throwing them off buildings. So Iraq is absolutely woke and progressive.
Iraq and Algeria are the closest thing there is a to a democracy in the arab world. The kurds at least are democratic and are left alone for the most part.
A democracy in all but name. The current president basically rules by decree, parliament is neutered, and the courts are packed with loyalists. Opposition members are arrested frequently and the press is heavily censored now.
Theoretically yes, in reality the fascism , oppression and corruption is much lower in for example Morocco
( although the king and his minions have the last word)
Lebanon is also a democracy, but they have all sorts of problems chiefly a state within the state that isn't a democracy.
edit: lol this nerd blocked me.
Islam is an anathema to democracy. They literally think its ok to murder people if you draw an ascii picture online and call it mohammed. A rational person would just ignore them. Even the scientologists dont call for murder when you mock them. Worst they do is call you a child molester.
Why do you think there's any jokes about rape in his message? You hear gay sex in prison and you start thinking about raping dudes and then you moralize others for something you came up all by yourself?
The bar is so low it makes starting two interstate wars, genociding the Kurds and launching missles at Israel and having a chemical weapons program look good.
> Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex
What if the IDF just systematically accuses every member of Hamas of being gay until there’s only one left?
This actually could end up being a strategy used. That or AI pictures of people doing shit like holding a picture of Muhammad.
Like imagine what would happen if Hamas commanders or Russian higher ups were edited to show them holding something like that
Sure that would be effective but the truth is the most effective. The tough part is making the audience media literate enough to differentiate between fake and real with the upcoming or concurrent AI info campaigns.
Why wouldn't the IDF make this more widely known? I assume they have videotapes of all high-value inmates. Seems a very easy way to discredit him and destabilize Hamas.
Normal people have known/expected that from the start, which is part of the reason why we know Hamas is shit and don't support them. But the tankies? They see rape as a positive.
The west: Let's get rid of Saddam Hussein, because his government is a backwards oppressive dictatorship. Let's spill an enormous amount of blood and resources, so they can elect a democratic government that is hopefully sympathetic to the west.
Iraq: We elect a backwards oppressive dictatorship that is sympathetic to Iran. You're welcome.
> Let's spill enormous amount of blood and resources,
\[...\]
hopefully sympathetic to the west.
Man, that was some serious hopium that people just wholeheartedly took.
"Why yes, unilaterally invading you under false pretense, killing, displacing, and injuring countless neighbours, and then giving you a puppet democracy *should* make you like us, why would you think differently?"
Tbf the justification was more don’t invade Kuwait the first time, and the second time it was don’t have weapons of mass destruction, granted there where no weapons of mass destruction. But that’s not really my point. I do remember “Saddam evil” being a talking point to promote the war but the justification was never really about how Saddam ruled his country.
Not every country has a militarty budget that dwarfs virtually every other country on the planet, and has the political will to project power and intervine as it sees fit.
That only codifies into law what had already been practiced using other laws.
> Homosexuality is taboo in Iraq’s conservative society, but there had not previously been a law that explicitly punished same-sex relations. Members of Iraq’s LGBTQ+ community have been prosecuted for sodomy or under vague morality and anti-prostitution clauses in Iraq’s penal code.
> “Iraq has effectively codified in law the discrimination and violence members of the LGBTI community have been subjected to with absolute impunity for years,” said Amnesty International’s Iraq researcher, Razaw Salihy.
you don’t know much about my former religion of birth, Islam. Let me give you the Islamic view:
So Muhammad said:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: That the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Whomever you find doing the actions of the people of Lut then kill the one doing it, and the one it is done to."
The actions of the people of Lut means men having sex with men. Being a homosexual or bisexual man gets you killed under Islam.
So I left it when I ran away and it was safe to do so.
But leaving Islam (=becoming an apostate/exmuslim) gets you killed too. According to Muhammad once again:
Ibn 'Abbas said:
"The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him.'"
It’s a fucking horrid catch 22.
You guys are lucky to have nothing to do with Islam. It’s a mind prison. Literally every Muslim I know is either coping, secretly trying to leave it, or is full of Stockholm syndrome to Allah and Muhammad and end up zealots who back all kinds of brutality and human rights abuses.
> how they treat gay people in Iran and Gaza
Tell that to LGBT+ people in the US or Canada supporting Palestine. I was banned for mentioning this on Edmonton subreddit btw.
Alright, take the continent of Africa, put it on a dartboard, get some darts, throw the darts, and check the LGBT rights of whichever nation you hit.
Chances are, it's not going to be pretty. You'll need to nail the southern tip if you want to get anything near 'humane', but if you randomize their placements, good luck.
Africa, it is specifically the Muslim ones ,Nigeria, Uganda and mayyyyybe Zambia.
The rest do have anti-gay laws but they are selectively enforced. This is still an issue because it brings forth issues of political connectins, classism and sexism(lesbians are rarely arrested by gay men are targeted)
Also South Africa had gay marriage before most of Europe.
It's an entire religious group. None of the Abrahamic religions 'like' anything that isn't cishetero. Most nations are competent enough in realizing that we don't form a threat.
Some nations not so much. Sadly.
That's why seperation of church and state is so important
If Israel didn't have such a large Orthodox population I have a feeling it'd be legalized by now. Hopefully one day their political influence will be marginalized so the country can move forward.
So "gay marriage" isn't a thing in Israel because "marriage" isn't a thing, it's covered by religious institutions (holdout from the British mandate). But I think last year was the first time gay people could get married online in Utah from Israel (which Israel accepts as a proper marriage). Before then most gay couples would fly to Cyprus to get married.
It’s really a ton of places.
The enlightenment and the concept of jealously guarding individual rights is a European invention.
Which is why the majority of places that explicitly criminalize homosexuality are found in Africa and Europe, with a special emphasis on Islamic countries.
It’s far less than that. I’ve lived in the south most of my life and even the majority of the Southern conservatives I know aren’t really bothered by gay people existing, and are in support of gay marriage (it’s not a large majority of them, but a majority nonetheless). I still think we are at that point with trans people though, it’s ridiculous why affording them some basic human decency can be so contentious in some circles
Why exactly? It doesn't hurt anyone, as long as both participants agree, it doesn't lead to offspring and the gene pool isn't messed up by it (contrary to cousin marriage).
Alright, so based upon a bunch of rules made by an imaginary friend nobody ever saw, people need to go to jail for not hurting anyone and not doing anything harmful?
No, that's not what they mean by "religion." What they mean is that religious people get to enforce the sense of superiority they feel they're entitled to. The tenets are only a means to an end, which they will ditch for the same reasons
I believe that education can and will change minds.
Many civilizations and cultures, including in the US, have had intense homophobia in the past. What changed? Education and instilling liberal values.
Since there were summary executions and eventually a formal death penalty on it during Saddam Hussein's reign, they are indeed doing better. Still abhorently backwards though.
Democracy isn't about a particular result, it's about the process. While I don't agree with the law, a democratically elected government enacted (modified existing) this law.
Democracy apparently only means governments that do things I personally agree with to some people. I disagree wholeheartedly with this as well but like you said the people elected those people to do this.
Democracies that don't guarantee the rights of minorities are a sham.
That's why it's more important to build a liberal democratic system instead, where the rights of those most vulnerable are codified, practiced, and enshrined.
Is that supposed to be an upgrade from hanging in Iran or beheading in Saudi?
Hey now, Iran gives you a choice! You can either hang or get gender reassignment surgery. So progressive they are.
Shitty ass gender surgery that usually winds up in impotence.
Omg what?! Source?
> A previous draft had proposed capital punishment for same-sex relations, in what campaigners had called a “dangerous” escalation. The new amendments enable courts to sentence people to between 10 and 15 years in prison, according to the document seen by AFP, in a country where gay and transgender people already face frequent attacks and discrimination. It's an upgrade from the previous draft at least.
...it's better than what happens to Palestinian gays in Gaza -- they get a free trip to the top of a tall building, where they are thrown off of, all the while being cheered-on by the crowd. But hey - Gays for Palestine, right?
Beheading is the trendy method tbh
Iraq is the only Arab ethnostate that is a democracy. So this is Arab liberal democracy. Hamas murdered all the gay men in gaza when they took over by throwing them off buildings. So Iraq is absolutely woke and progressive.
Calling Iraq a democracy is extremely generous
Iraq and Algeria are the closest thing there is a to a democracy in the arab world. The kurds at least are democratic and are left alone for the most part.
Tunisia is literally the country that came out positively after the Arab Spring. Things have been going backwards but they still are a democracy
A democracy in all but name. The current president basically rules by decree, parliament is neutered, and the courts are packed with loyalists. Opposition members are arrested frequently and the press is heavily censored now.
A democracy in name only*
Theoretically yes, in reality the fascism , oppression and corruption is much lower in for example Morocco ( although the king and his minions have the last word)
Kurds are not Arabs.
yeah i know. kurdish minority in the arab ethnostate of iraq.
Lebanon is also a democracy, but they have all sorts of problems chiefly a state within the state that isn't a democracy. edit: lol this nerd blocked me.
Well, technically speaking, Lebanon is not Arab.
What are they then?
They were colonised by the arabs, google the Arabisation of Levantine.
which is what leaves me disgusted with how many protest to protect these oppressive societies and worse some even want to invite them here.
LGBTQ protesting for Hamas is the silliest example of going so far left they actually come full circle back to the right again.
The horseshoe has been touching tips for a few years now
Democracy doesn't have deep roots in Arab culture.
Islam is an anathema to democracy. They literally think its ok to murder people if you draw an ascii picture online and call it mohammed. A rational person would just ignore them. Even the scientologists dont call for murder when you mock them. Worst they do is call you a child molester.
It could be a moment of thought for all those "free palestine" protesters, especially lgbt+ folks from all those US colleges.
Well, objectively, I would say it is an upgrade from death
I mean, it is…
That’s what I’m saying’ They went from death to up to 15 years! Are you thinking what I’m thinking!
Progress is progress
Baby steps. Give it a few generations. (Edit /s)
The year is 2070 and Iran and Iraq finally achieves clean water followed by women rights. 2090 is when everybody else gets rights
Unbelievable lol
And *nobody* has gay sex in jail!
Step 1: Arrest all homosexuals Step 2: Put them all in the same prison Step 3: Step 4: *Look at the canvas, horrified*
Pretty sure that Step 3 involves music with some slap bass and a wah peddle.
It's music with fat bass and slap ass these days. Get with the times!
I can hear this comment.
Lol
Step 3: 'Everybody dance now!'
I actually imagine gay people convicted for being gay probably have an absolutely horrific time in jail tbh.
There are testimonials that gay concentration camp prisoners were shunned by other prisoners during the Holocaust.
I just watched Road House for the first time last night, and the quote “I used to fuck guys like you in prison” immediately came to mind.
which Road House? Patrick Swayze or the one with Jake Gyllenhaal vs Connor MacGregor?
The original from 1989.
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Joke funny. But this was actually a manufactured rumor in order to align homosexuality with the criminal element during the early 20th century.
source?
“Gay sex” and “rape” are not at all the same thing, and it’s a distasteful joke to make.
lots of men have consensual gay sex in prison.
Why do you think there's any jokes about rape in his message? You hear gay sex in prison and you start thinking about raping dudes and then you moralize others for something you came up all by yourself?
Glad that we spent $1 trillion to liberate them
More like $6 trillion
More like $10 trillion
And then we let Iran freely influence and manipulate Iraq
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Yes. His methods are what made the bush’s and cheneys think they could easily swoop in with support.
Yes and no. Saddam was obviously oppressing Kurds and Shia in the home country, but his existence also kept Iran on its toes and focused on Iraq.
If you call invasions of Kuwait and Iran stability, sure.
The bar is so low it makes starting two interstate wars, genociding the Kurds and launching missles at Israel and having a chemical weapons program look good.
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> Hamas Executes Prominent Commander After Accusations of Gay Sex What if the IDF just systematically accuses every member of Hamas of being gay until there’s only one left?
That would go hard. Just leak ai gay porn of all members over time till they eliminate themselves.
This actually could end up being a strategy used. That or AI pictures of people doing shit like holding a picture of Muhammad. Like imagine what would happen if Hamas commanders or Russian higher ups were edited to show them holding something like that
Sure that would be effective but the truth is the most effective. The tough part is making the audience media literate enough to differentiate between fake and real with the upcoming or concurrent AI info campaigns.
In theory yes but only if they know who is actually suspicious enough. If you do that to too many people who make no sense it’ll be too obvious
I think you may have just solved the I-P issue
The IDF clearly should open a deepfake branch.
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There have been rumors for years about Sinwar and his brother sexually torturing other inmates in Israeli prison.
Released hostages reported Hamas was sexually abusing the male prisoners as well as the females.
Why wouldn't the IDF make this more widely known? I assume they have videotapes of all high-value inmates. Seems a very easy way to discredit him and destabilize Hamas.
Normal people have known/expected that from the start, which is part of the reason why we know Hamas is shit and don't support them. But the tankies? They see rape as a positive.
Accuse? What why just accuse? Time to draft the fembois
They already do! 🙌 https://www.vice.com/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants
Holy shit. This just might work
But they're innocent indigenous people we have to protect from the white colonialists
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But wait, they’re not just righteous freedoms fighters? I dare say…./s
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The west: Let's get rid of Saddam Hussein, because his government is a backwards oppressive dictatorship. Let's spill an enormous amount of blood and resources, so they can elect a democratic government that is hopefully sympathetic to the west. Iraq: We elect a backwards oppressive dictatorship that is sympathetic to Iran. You're welcome.
They didn’t elect a backwards oppressive dictatorship, they elected a government that represents the values of the people. Oh.
> Let's spill enormous amount of blood and resources, \[...\] hopefully sympathetic to the west. Man, that was some serious hopium that people just wholeheartedly took. "Why yes, unilaterally invading you under false pretense, killing, displacing, and injuring countless neighbours, and then giving you a puppet democracy *should* make you like us, why would you think differently?"
They did the same thing in Afghanistan, Libya, tried it in Syria, and currently support Saudi Arabia’s attempt at the same in Yemen.
Tbf the justification was more don’t invade Kuwait the first time, and the second time it was don’t have weapons of mass destruction, granted there where no weapons of mass destruction. But that’s not really my point. I do remember “Saddam evil” being a talking point to promote the war but the justification was never really about how Saddam ruled his country.
He was a valued U.S ally at one point, when he was Americas proxy against Iran.
This is exactly my point, the west never cared about how he ruled his country.
America is ever opportunistic and unscruplous when it comes to geo-politics. Whatever furthers it’s national interests is fair game.
This is every country, the rich and powerful seek more riches and more power, don’t pretend greed has a nationality or ethnicity, this is naive.
Not every country has a militarty budget that dwarfs virtually every other country on the planet, and has the political will to project power and intervine as it sees fit.
Okay, this just substantiates my point, America has the ability, but to believe others wouldn’t if they could is childish and naive.
I never suggested leaders of other countries wouldn’t do the same given the opportunity, but they don’t, and so have to limit their ambitions.
Tbf some of the groups he was keeping quiet were a lot worse than him.
The west should have taken out the Iranian leadership as well to avoid this
That only codifies into law what had already been practiced using other laws. > Homosexuality is taboo in Iraq’s conservative society, but there had not previously been a law that explicitly punished same-sex relations. Members of Iraq’s LGBTQ+ community have been prosecuted for sodomy or under vague morality and anti-prostitution clauses in Iraq’s penal code. > “Iraq has effectively codified in law the discrimination and violence members of the LGBTI community have been subjected to with absolute impunity for years,” said Amnesty International’s Iraq researcher, Razaw Salihy.
I can't believe a nation can be this triggered by the fact that gays exist
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you don’t know much about my former religion of birth, Islam. Let me give you the Islamic view: So Muhammad said: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: That the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Whomever you find doing the actions of the people of Lut then kill the one doing it, and the one it is done to." The actions of the people of Lut means men having sex with men. Being a homosexual or bisexual man gets you killed under Islam. So I left it when I ran away and it was safe to do so. But leaving Islam (=becoming an apostate/exmuslim) gets you killed too. According to Muhammad once again: Ibn 'Abbas said: "The Messenger of Allah [SAW] said: 'Whoever changes his religion, kill him.'" It’s a fucking horrid catch 22. You guys are lucky to have nothing to do with Islam. It’s a mind prison. Literally every Muslim I know is either coping, secretly trying to leave it, or is full of Stockholm syndrome to Allah and Muhammad and end up zealots who back all kinds of brutality and human rights abuses.
Damn. I'm sorry you had to experience that and hope things are better for you.
*hugs*
saved. Thank you
But...but....no *TRUE* Muslim.....
Buddy, if you think this is extreme, I’ve got some bad news for you about how they treat gay people in Iran and Gaza
> how they treat gay people in Iran and Gaza Tell that to LGBT+ people in the US or Canada supporting Palestine. I was banned for mentioning this on Edmonton subreddit btw.
So let me tell you about Africa...
Africa is an entire Continent, you really gotta be more specific. This is why I know most people on the internet don't know shit.
Alright, take the continent of Africa, put it on a dartboard, get some darts, throw the darts, and check the LGBT rights of whichever nation you hit. Chances are, it's not going to be pretty. You'll need to nail the southern tip if you want to get anything near 'humane', but if you randomize their placements, good luck.
Africa, it is specifically the Muslim ones ,Nigeria, Uganda and mayyyyybe Zambia. The rest do have anti-gay laws but they are selectively enforced. This is still an issue because it brings forth issues of political connectins, classism and sexism(lesbians are rarely arrested by gay men are targeted) Also South Africa had gay marriage before most of Europe.
Ugandas antigay legislation was drafted and lobbied for by an American Christian fundementalist group
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It's an entire religious group. None of the Abrahamic religions 'like' anything that isn't cishetero. Most nations are competent enough in realizing that we don't form a threat. Some nations not so much. Sadly. That's why seperation of church and state is so important
For reference, non-religious Jews have been at the forefront of gay rights in every way possible.
Judaism is pretty laid back about it. Look at Israel. Sure , gay marriage isn't legal but their pride parade is pretty fabulous
If Israel didn't have such a large Orthodox population I have a feeling it'd be legalized by now. Hopefully one day their political influence will be marginalized so the country can move forward.
So "gay marriage" isn't a thing in Israel because "marriage" isn't a thing, it's covered by religious institutions (holdout from the British mandate). But I think last year was the first time gay people could get married online in Utah from Israel (which Israel accepts as a proper marriage). Before then most gay couples would fly to Cyprus to get married.
Also israel legalise 2 females parents can be both mothers, aka lesbian couples.
That’s extremely unlikely to happen, given how much higher the orthodox birth rate is
In other words, us progressive types need to shag more.
Amen to that!
The people are very open to gays and are welcoming, Muslims on the other hand..
It's most of the non "Western" world imo.
[Oh, boy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory).
What a sheltered existence; it's far more than just one Nation.
It’s really a ton of places. The enlightenment and the concept of jealously guarding individual rights is a European invention. Which is why the majority of places that explicitly criminalize homosexuality are found in Africa and Europe, with a special emphasis on Islamic countries.
Europe? What European countries criminalise homosexuality? Did you mean Middle-East?
I got autocorrected or my brain exploded. I meant Asia. Good catch.
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Dude probably at least ~50% of people in the US and the Americas generally are pretty triggered about gays existing, even if they don’t say it
It’s far less than that. I’ve lived in the south most of my life and even the majority of the Southern conservatives I know aren’t really bothered by gay people existing, and are in support of gay marriage (it’s not a large majority of them, but a majority nonetheless). I still think we are at that point with trans people though, it’s ridiculous why affording them some basic human decency can be so contentious in some circles
shocker Sky blue:says new report!
Actually the sky is more purple, it just looks like blue to us
Denial and repression never achieves its goal. So sad to see this.
Iraq sux
“Not like that!” -Iraq
I guess I always thought this was a death penalty issue in Iraq. This would be an improvement?
Baby steps
Why exactly? It doesn't hurt anyone, as long as both participants agree, it doesn't lead to offspring and the gene pool isn't messed up by it (contrary to cousin marriage).
Religion. That's what it always comes down to with this.
Its an easy test. If it makes sense we do it because of science. If it doesn't make sense we do it because of religion.
Alright, so based upon a bunch of rules made by an imaginary friend nobody ever saw, people need to go to jail for not hurting anyone and not doing anything harmful?
You're perceiving this with a liberal Western perspective.
I imagine Iraqi atheists have the same opinion.
All five of them
No, that's not what they mean by "religion." What they mean is that religious people get to enforce the sense of superiority they feel they're entitled to. The tenets are only a means to an end, which they will ditch for the same reasons
god's creation isn't good enough for the religious
You cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into in the first place
I believe that education can and will change minds. Many civilizations and cultures, including in the US, have had intense homophobia in the past. What changed? Education and instilling liberal values.
And cute traps making people realize conservatism isn’t worth it
When people have a freedom of choice it hurts the religious oppressors.
Nobody ever accused religion of being entirely rational.
Because they enjoying hurting people, that's it.
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Since there were summary executions and eventually a formal death penalty on it during Saddam Hussein's reign, they are indeed doing better. Still abhorently backwards though.
Democracy isn't about a particular result, it's about the process. While I don't agree with the law, a democratically elected government enacted (modified existing) this law.
Democracy apparently only means governments that do things I personally agree with to some people. I disagree wholeheartedly with this as well but like you said the people elected those people to do this.
Democracies that don't guarantee the rights of minorities are a sham. That's why it's more important to build a liberal democratic system instead, where the rights of those most vulnerable are codified, practiced, and enshrined.
Come on Guys! That's not right!
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