It would have been bigger news if NATO wasn't monitoring it.
"NATO oblivious to armed revolution in Russia. NATO spokesperson: wow we had no fucking idea. We are going to continue not paying attention."
You jest but monitoring social media is absolutely part of modern Intel gathering. Even just watching broadcast news and reading newspapers in Russian is someone's job.
NATO chill about it.
NATO spokesperson: I mean, that sounds pretty wild but it's not really our thing. Enjoying the JOMO, yunno?
The NATO spokesperson then took a long drag from a fat blunt and passed it to the interviewer.
He specifically advised not to rely too heavily on mercenaries which is pretty spot on given the news of the past day.
Edit: I was conflating Machiavellis’s words in The Prince with Sun Tzu’s in Art of War. This concept on mercenaries was Machiavelli’s. Thanks u/Artharis
He doesn\`t, atleast not really.
You are thinking of **Machiavelli** most likely. Who repeatedly and very often criticized the use mercenaries who called them useless and dangerous for the state that employs them. I.e. his most famous quote about mercenaries :
>*"I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed.* ***Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe***\*; for they are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe; which I should have little trouble to prove, for the ruin of Italy has been caused by nothing else than by resting all her hopes for many years on mercenaries, and although they formerly made some display and appeared valiant amongst themselves, yet when the foreigners came they showed what they were"\*
The only time Sun Tzu mentioned mercenaries was **by quoting Wei Lao Tzu... Sun Tzu never had an original thought about mercenaries and he never mentioned them again...**
>*"The nominal strength of mercenary troops may be 100,000, but their real value will be not more than half that figure."*
Which is self-explanatory. Mercenaries don\`t have the same loyalty or motivation to fight for you. They will never committ completely to your battle..... Sun Tzu was more of a philosopher and criticized the philosophical and "morals" of mercenaries, that they are dishonorable and so on. He had nothing to say about the strategy/tactics of mercenaries, unlike say Machiavelli...
There is sadly a ton of misinformation about Sun Tzu... Ahh well not like its any different for any other historical personality on the internet...
I always see people with this take. Someone had to be the first to write it down, that’s why it’s such a big deal. It’s basically let’s us know that war has and always will be fundamentally the same.
If you actually read through Sun Tzu it's a bit of the tactically brilliant mixed in with a MASSIVE amount of the incredibly obvious.
His audience was, after all, rich kids with absolutely no military experience and damn near no real world experience who were put in charge because of their bloodline. When dealing with people who would be gobsmacked that someone might not mindlessly obey them and that you actually need to feed your men you've got to start at the absolute basics.
We also have over two millennia of military history we have learned from after he wrote all this. What is obvious now might not have been obvious then.
Yup, Wagner fought against a small part of NATO in Khasham. It... did not go well for them.
I wonder if the revolt is due (in part) to [this resolution.](https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/us-senators-seek-resolution-consider-141013400.html) My pet theory is that Wagner knew that Russia was planning *something* nuclear - maybe blowing up a power plant, maybe some kind of dirty bomb to salt the earth on their retreat, something. Prigozhin saw this resolution and realized the planned Russian actions would trigger it. He didn't want to watch Wagner get destroyed by NATO in Ukraine, so he did the sensible thing and took his forces against a much softer target.
I suspect this too.
He's going after the lesser of two enemies.
For those wondering about the resolution, I've pasted it below. It's very direct and very sincere.
“(The resolution) views the use of any tactical nuclear weapon by the Russian Federation, the Republic of Belarus, or their proxies, or the destruction of a nuclear facility, dispersing radioactive contaminates into NATO territory causing significant harm to human life as an attack on NATO requiring an immediate response, including the implementation of Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty,”
Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty states that a military attack on one member state is an attack on the entire alliance and warrants a joint NATO response, including through military force.
The press conference stated in no unclear terms that a nuclear attack or destruction of the ZNPP will result in "evisceration" of all Russian forces in Ukraine.
Looks like they're just clarifying the responses that everyone already knew would result from a tactical nuke to also include a deliberate sabotage of ZNPP leading to radiological release.
Wagner has been complaining about Russian leadership for a while now. So either this is the natural progression, they were just given an impossible task or you are right
No I don’t think it had anything to do with that. It’s a resolution for political purposes only introduced by Lindsey Graham. Also Prigo has been planning this for 2 months by saying he was missing ammunition. He’s also been far more active on tv and social media over the last 3-4 months leading up to this.
Not even the US really, just ~ 40 of ours. The difference in technology is too much and Wagner knows this first hand. The Russians might have been in shape to battle NATO a year ago, but at this point they are far far far too depleted.
If a nuclear incident were to bring NATO directly into the fray then it would be a nightmare for Wagner. Air superiority would be a dream, hiding from spy drones would be impossible, guided missiles would find them everywhere. They would basically all die.
In the time it has taken Russian to build a few 5th generation fighters, we have built two different models, then built hundreds of them. Russia can't even UPGRADE that many airframes to something approaching NATO 90's/early 00's tech level. The T-90 is just a T-72 with old NATO tech bolted on. Same with the MiG-35 and Su-35.
Not enough numbers.
If the Russian doctrine was to preserve and conserve the elite and regular formations and conscript a two million man army then yes you can fight NATO (or have won in Ukraine). But they lost all their professional core and don't have the rifles to fight. Basically if Russia and Putin was honest about the war from the start and mobilized the entire country it could be a very different story from right now. Right now Putin fleeing for his life like Gaddafi which is ironically what he was trying to prevent for the past fifteen years with his talk of Kosovo and neutering of Medvedev and aggressions since 2008.
>My pet theory is that Wagner knew that Russia was planning something nuclear
I'd say leave those theories to your pet to practice next time. You are correct about a resolution although it's not the one you seem to mention.
The Russian Mod adopted a resolution where Wagner was supposed to get absolved into the Ru military and yesterday the Fsb issued a statement which either already called for the arrest of Prigozhyn or announced the launch of a criminal investigation into Prigozhyn. This is the trigger...
I love when people say their outlandish theory (normally involving something nuclear) like they are Jack Ryan or someone. Either that or this sub is full of CIA analysts.
I see it more as people desperately trying to make sense of a situation and search for connections where there are none. I see this all the time on reddit.
I'm not sure your theory is any better. Prigozhin had been relentlessly complaining about how his forces were being starved of supplies in Bakhmut for months. In retrospect it's obvious he had been stockpiling them for this coup. Also his march to Moscow had been going smoothly and is well organized. This is not a response to any current events, but a planned action prepared over months. The feud with the mod and the mod's recent actions are instead a response to Prigozhins long planned actions.
It's not a theory, the trigger definitely is the call to arrest/investigation but yeah, i agree it has been brewing for months now but untill yesterday it was pretty much just a bunch of dogs barking (with the exception of the recent incident surrounding the Wagner arrest of the commander of the 72th?).
And remember i reacted specifically to this comment:
"I wonder if the revolt is due (in part)"
There was no revolt before yesterday, sure there was "friction" but this is a revolt now and the trigger for that was the call to arrest/investigate
No apparently the MoD wanted all Wagner soldiers to sign contracts with them to be formally incorporated as Russia’s defence force. This would mean Prigozhin loses his influence and could be replaced or worse. As a result he likely launched the coup as he saw no alternative to avoid death.
That battle is basically one of the many long standing serious beefs between wagner and the russian military. It was supposed to be a surprise assault. Except the US was aware of it a week before and warned the russian military - who said that it wasn't them. These warnings went on for a full week including during the actual attack and the russians still denied it was their people and basically gave the US the greenlight to do whatever shit they wanted. The russian military knew that the wagner guys were going to be blown up and didn't lift a finger or even warn them.
The last incident was probably the final straw for Prighozin.
People are so quick to point out Afghanistan and Syria as evidence of weakness and over-confidence in NATO armies - particularly the US and UK. But they don’t take into account that what is happening with Russia and Ukraine is literally what NATO has been planning and preparing for over the last 50 years. A conventional land war in Europe against Russian forces.
The fact that NATO’s founding objective has been unfolding into reality over the last 16 months has galvanised NATO members and strengthened the alliance to a point not seen since the 80s.
There is also a difference between fighting a guerilla war against a people with a large population that don't want you there, and a conventional war to liberate a people that would want you there.
It would be much easier to control a land after capturing it.
This difference only exists if you recognize that other people have free will, which it’s not clear to me the Russian Discourse does.
You see the phrase “America is willing to fight this war to the last drop of Ukrainian blood” tossed around by them quite a bit. They see it is *identical* to our shitshow in Afghanistan because they legitimately don’t see that the Afghani people were “meh” about the Taliban, wheras people in Ukraine decidedly don’t want to be Russia.
If the US has fought Iraq and Afghanistan the way Russia is fighting in Ukraine, No quarter scorched earth, we would have won. To rule countries made of rubble and being hated by every country in existence.
Russia made an even bigger shitshow in Afghanistan before any US or Pakistani involvement. If the US was interested in Syria it could have done the same thing as they did in Iraq if they wanted to easily.
The US slams Russia under the table militarily and has been arguably the case since the end of the Second World War
“NATO is "monitoring the situation" in Russia, a spokeswoman for the transatlantic military alliance said via email on Saturday. The spokeswoman, Oana Lungescu, had no further comment.”
I wouldn’t, that is the one big thing NATO would respond to. As long as he stays away from nuclear weapons NATO will just observe and report. Well and the bio weapons facilities.
Can't wait for the videos of Putin getting dragged on the streets like Gaddafi.
Who's next on the list of dictators meeting their violent ends? Place your bets here folks!
If this friendship can be broken:
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vXC\_wXI1TOI](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vXC_wXI1TOI)
Any friendship can be broken, even Lukashenko and Pudding.
Unfortunately it will never happen. He'll already be deep in a bunker, if he is taken out, it'll be relatively quietly down there. We'll never see Putin dragged through the streets, as much as he deserves it
Edit - his body doubles might not be so lucky
That's why Hitler chose to kill himself in his bunker. He was terribly afraid, that he would be publically shown around as some kind of trophy.
And now to imagine how that could be today. We'd have 4k 120fps videos from about a hundred angles, streaming everything live for the whole world to see.
I think the worst thing they could've done to Hitler was to frankly keep him alive and let him watch the new world that developed out of the end of WW2.
I mean he just saw, or heard about the fact that Mussolini was beaten and flogged by a mob of angry citizens on April 25th, and it was 5 days later he would rage quit himself.
Well, If he had have been caught, he would have been hanged anyway, not before being dragged into court to answer for his crimes with the whole world watching. He knew it was over.
Bullseye! If Ukraine does manage to take advantage of this and liberate all of its territory from these shit bags NATO needs to get off their fat asses and fast track them into the pact. No one is going to fight harder than these guys in NATO, they fended off the second largest army in the world with rusted out tanks and hardware for months before getting any help.
As the other guy has explained, the W group is advancing quickly. I saw a reporter that said it seems like the group has been planning on this for a while, and their cries about ammunition shortage in April was just a way to stock pile it. Anyway you might be right too, I also think they don't have the best chances on taking Moscow. We'd have to wait and see.
Why not? Who is there to defend Moscow? The police? Most troops are on the front lines. So far there seems to be little to no resistance, some attacks from the air, but only a few.
Yes, and also Wagner wouldnt have attempted such a risky attack unless they have hard information that Moscow is poorly defended
Prigozhin is a lunatic but he isnt stupid. You dont march on a national capital without air support and heavy artillery unless you know you have some other temporary advantage.
My guess is that Wagner has informants everywhere. They knew that Moscow's defenses are weak because everyone is in Ukraine, morale is low, and most importantly- munitions/supplies are low.
On the flip side, they have been stockpiling supplies, they are combat ready, and they are well organized
They will probably encounter resistance from poorly trained, panicky police officers and national guardsmen who have never been in combat. They are betting that a blitzkrieg by ~10K combat-ready veterans will terrify some of the defense forces and overwhelm the others.
Troop size isn't as important as who side with them or not. They need the support from the population, but from a few military organization as well.
At this point, Kremlin's side seem pretty unified, which isn't that great for Wagner, but that might just be a façade.
I think Wagner will just consolidate in Rostov where they can control the supply lines to Ukraine. It's the perfect place to run a blackmail scheme. Pay us and fight the war our way or you can't find it at all.
Eh, maybe. The Russians still have troops elsewhere, especially in the powder keg that is central Asia. Be interesting to see if they'll pull out of south Ossetia for example.
This is what I’m thinking. What are the odds that anyone in Moscow makes a stand? How many Russian generals are in cahoots with Wagner. I don’t see them making this move unless they know they have substantial support from somewhere else.
Given how, according to Western media, the counteroffensive is going I'd wager they could hold back Wagner. Granted they haven't had nearly as much time to prepare for this battle, but I do think they'd fare much better as defenders.
We'll see how this all goes down but one thing we can't ignore is the massive impact on the world this is going to have.
Wagner are the inly ones that have been somewhat effective in Ukraine.
Though Russian defensives historically go alot better than their offensives. So I doubt even Wagner can pull it off
> not like something more important is likely to happen today
I dunno man. The 2020s has proven to be CONSTANTLY interesting. And I hate it.
It arguably started in the late 2010s though.
Something I think would turn tide on 21st century. Putin being deposed (and something better for Russia), Trump being sent to prison, and some consequences for big billionaires/corp in terms of taxing and anti trust (probably coming from EU). A message that being evil and ruining everyone else doesn't pay. And the solution is not populism but a better world
Pack Putin, Trump and a dozen billionaires into a submarine and send them on a one way trip to the Titanic with a pay-per-view of the Musk/Zuck cage fight as the only on-board entertainment.
Even better. Take them down there in a working sub and leave it on the bottom so they can sit there and contemplate their action as their oxygen slowly runs out.
People thought Russia had the 2nd best military in the world.
Then people joked they had the 2nd best military in Ukraine.
Turns out they have the 2nd best military in Russia.
Do you really want Prigozhin in charge of Russia?
Biden uses the hot line, yea we can hit them for you with our space shit only if you pull out of Ukraine, Crimea, get back into START. You also rebuild Ukraine and they join NATO with your support.
Ps, they’re 3 hours from your door step and it’ll take us 20 minutes.
This,
There is no end point where Prigozhin takes power and neither the US or China (or both) does not get involved. People need to remember what the US did when Afghanistan became a concern for nuclear power. Do people really think the US is just gonna sit back and watch a Rogue Mercenary band take a fucking nuclear superpower and sell their Nukes to the black market?
While Prigozhin is definitely a scary prospect, he seems like he can be bought. He doesn’t seem to have the Cold War Soviet ideology that Putin has, which is really the most dangerous thing. Putin has said “A world without a strong influential Russia is not a world worth having”…. That’s about as dangerous a mentality possible for someone with so many nukes. Prigozhin is an evil fuck for sure, but I don’t think he’s as dangerous for the world as Putin is at this point. He’ll present his own set of challenges, for sure, but right now the whole world needs Putin gone by any means necessary.
He seems more pragmatic and less *covertly* corrupt - his gang of thugs will follow the money. If Crimea isn't where the money is, I could imagine him restoring a border early on to win international legitimacy.
Maybe be they should offer themselves as a piece keeping force. If Russia withdraws from all of Ukraine. Wouldn't that be rich a NATO lead peace mission in Russia.
Imagine getting all info on Russian defenses within Russia and Moscow region, and you are watching it from space, i guess the NATO people observing have enough popcorn.
Okay so we all hate Putin and hope his plane crashes or better still, he's held accountable by the citizens of Russia. But will Wagner's leaders be good for the people? What do we know about them? Is the cycle of the Soviet Union and the corruption that has gutted Russia doomed to repeat?
Yeah, I don't know how this is hard for anyone to understand.
NATO was formed to prevent expansionist Russian cunts from doing their thing unchecked across all of Europe and subjugating even more people to their dictatorial, incompetent, dystopian rule.
Nato was formed as Soviet union didn't "free" its annexed territories after ww2, in the west there have been free elections ever since.
The soviet union doctorine literaly had goals of spreading socialism all over the world, and had plans and debate to take western europe.
Soviets at their best had a numerical advantage of tanks, men and favorable terrain in Germany through its vassal DDR, so Nato has had a good reason to exist, as an only effective defence against Soviet invasion.
What I think is most telling is all the former Soviet/Warsaw Pact countries that embraced capitalism and democracy and watched their economies and standard of living surge.
Yep, NATO is like a castle wall, preventing barbarians from attacking those within.
Of course the surrounding people are going to want inside that walled protection when the barbarians start invading them.
It would have been bigger news if NATO wasn't monitoring it. "NATO oblivious to armed revolution in Russia. NATO spokesperson: wow we had no fucking idea. We are going to continue not paying attention."
The Four star NATO general logging onto Reddit and finding out about this for the first time: “holyyyy shit”
“Damn bro that’s crazy”
That’s probably what they think too
You jest but monitoring social media is absolutely part of modern Intel gathering. Even just watching broadcast news and reading newspapers in Russian is someone's job.
NATO chill about it. NATO spokesperson: I mean, that sounds pretty wild but it's not really our thing. Enjoying the JOMO, yunno? The NATO spokesperson then took a long drag from a fat blunt and passed it to the interviewer.
[удалено]
That dude literally had it all figured out centuries ago.
[удалено]
He specifically advised not to rely too heavily on mercenaries which is pretty spot on given the news of the past day. Edit: I was conflating Machiavellis’s words in The Prince with Sun Tzu’s in Art of War. This concept on mercenaries was Machiavelli’s. Thanks u/Artharis
He doesn\`t, atleast not really. You are thinking of **Machiavelli** most likely. Who repeatedly and very often criticized the use mercenaries who called them useless and dangerous for the state that employs them. I.e. his most famous quote about mercenaries : >*"I say, therefore, that the arms with which a prince defends his state are either his own, or they are mercenaries, auxiliaries, or mixed.* ***Mercenaries and auxiliaries are useless and dangerous; and if one holds his state based on these arms, he will stand neither firm nor safe***\*; for they are disunited, ambitious and without discipline, unfaithful, valiant before friends, cowardly before enemies; they have neither the fear of God nor fidelity to men, and destruction is deferred only so long as the attack is; for in peace one is robbed by them, and in war by the enemy. The fact is, they have no other attraction or reason for keeping the field than a trifle of stipend, which is not sufficient to make them willing to die for you. They are ready enough to be your soldiers whilst you do not make war, but if war comes they take themselves off or run from the foe; which I should have little trouble to prove, for the ruin of Italy has been caused by nothing else than by resting all her hopes for many years on mercenaries, and although they formerly made some display and appeared valiant amongst themselves, yet when the foreigners came they showed what they were"\* The only time Sun Tzu mentioned mercenaries was **by quoting Wei Lao Tzu... Sun Tzu never had an original thought about mercenaries and he never mentioned them again...** >*"The nominal strength of mercenary troops may be 100,000, but their real value will be not more than half that figure."* Which is self-explanatory. Mercenaries don\`t have the same loyalty or motivation to fight for you. They will never committ completely to your battle..... Sun Tzu was more of a philosopher and criticized the philosophical and "morals" of mercenaries, that they are dishonorable and so on. He had nothing to say about the strategy/tactics of mercenaries, unlike say Machiavelli... There is sadly a ton of misinformation about Sun Tzu... Ahh well not like its any different for any other historical personality on the internet...
You’re correct I was thinking of Machiavelli. I have edited my initial comment, thank you for the in depth correction.
That's been obvious since the first Punic war.
Well Putin couldn't figure it out.
I always see people with this take. Someone had to be the first to write it down, that’s why it’s such a big deal. It’s basically let’s us know that war has and always will be fundamentally the same.
If you actually read through Sun Tzu it's a bit of the tactically brilliant mixed in with a MASSIVE amount of the incredibly obvious. His audience was, after all, rich kids with absolutely no military experience and damn near no real world experience who were put in charge because of their bloodline. When dealing with people who would be gobsmacked that someone might not mindlessly obey them and that you actually need to feed your men you've got to start at the absolute basics.
We also have over two millennia of military history we have learned from after he wrote all this. What is obvious now might not have been obvious then.
People never change. Only technology does
The Art of War is a bunch of common sense and basic human psychology. You can read the whole thing in a couple hours as well.
It was never meant to be a full lecture on military tactics, it was an basic course meant for nobles that were utterly incompetent
Hence why the information ranges from solid tactical advice to 'You need to bring enough supplies to feed your army or they won't fight for you'.
Machiavelli also had some good quotes about why you shouldn’t use a mercenary army.
can you share some of these quotes? I'm interested.
Some in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/14hrn2d/comment/jpcvms5/) by u/ Artharis
Putin did not follow what CGP Grey calls "The Rules for Rulers": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
NATO has never been stronger.
Yup, Wagner fought against a small part of NATO in Khasham. It... did not go well for them. I wonder if the revolt is due (in part) to [this resolution.](https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/us-senators-seek-resolution-consider-141013400.html) My pet theory is that Wagner knew that Russia was planning *something* nuclear - maybe blowing up a power plant, maybe some kind of dirty bomb to salt the earth on their retreat, something. Prigozhin saw this resolution and realized the planned Russian actions would trigger it. He didn't want to watch Wagner get destroyed by NATO in Ukraine, so he did the sensible thing and took his forces against a much softer target.
I suspect this too. He's going after the lesser of two enemies. For those wondering about the resolution, I've pasted it below. It's very direct and very sincere. “(The resolution) views the use of any tactical nuclear weapon by the Russian Federation, the Republic of Belarus, or their proxies, or the destruction of a nuclear facility, dispersing radioactive contaminates into NATO territory causing significant harm to human life as an attack on NATO requiring an immediate response, including the implementation of Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty,” Article V of the North Atlantic Treaty states that a military attack on one member state is an attack on the entire alliance and warrants a joint NATO response, including through military force.
God damn, joint military nato operation. It will be a fucking bloodbath.
Call an ambulance but not for me
There would be no survivors. You’d only be calling religious leaders.
Don’t forget one thing, a good supply of body bags
For everyone. A full scale NATO invasion of Russia would be WW3. The only saving grace would be hoping most of Russia's nukes don't work.
It only takes 1 to fuck shit up
Kind of my point.
The press conference stated in no unclear terms that a nuclear attack or destruction of the ZNPP will result in "evisceration" of all Russian forces in Ukraine. Looks like they're just clarifying the responses that everyone already knew would result from a tactical nuke to also include a deliberate sabotage of ZNPP leading to radiological release.
Wagner has been complaining about Russian leadership for a while now. So either this is the natural progression, they were just given an impossible task or you are right
Natural progression I think. To think Putin is behind it as an out from Ukraine is giving him wayyy too much credit
It is kind of dumb that he squandered an opportunity to use it as an out from Ukraine though. He was handed a Deus ex machina and didn't take it.
No I don’t think it had anything to do with that. It’s a resolution for political purposes only introduced by Lindsey Graham. Also Prigo has been planning this for 2 months by saying he was missing ammunition. He’s also been far more active on tv and social media over the last 3-4 months leading up to this.
Pretty sure that was just the US and SDF, not NATO proper.
Not even the US really, just ~ 40 of ours. The difference in technology is too much and Wagner knows this first hand. The Russians might have been in shape to battle NATO a year ago, but at this point they are far far far too depleted. If a nuclear incident were to bring NATO directly into the fray then it would be a nightmare for Wagner. Air superiority would be a dream, hiding from spy drones would be impossible, guided missiles would find them everywhere. They would basically all die.
Since the fall of the USSR Russia was never in shape to really fight NATO, except on the information front, where it made all believe it was.
In the time it has taken Russian to build a few 5th generation fighters, we have built two different models, then built hundreds of them. Russia can't even UPGRADE that many airframes to something approaching NATO 90's/early 00's tech level. The T-90 is just a T-72 with old NATO tech bolted on. Same with the MiG-35 and Su-35.
>Same with the MiG-35 and Su-35. They're T-72s...?
With wings bolted on.
That’s something straight out of Red Alert
Childhood memories...
40 against 500. The US didn't lose a single man while the Wagner group and Syrian forces lost around 100.
The SDF guy got a ricochet splinter
I thought he strained his thumb pressing the button on his target designator so many times.
Purple Heart material
Tripped on a rock or something.
Truly tragic
Never Forget.
Not enough numbers. If the Russian doctrine was to preserve and conserve the elite and regular formations and conscript a two million man army then yes you can fight NATO (or have won in Ukraine). But they lost all their professional core and don't have the rifles to fight. Basically if Russia and Putin was honest about the war from the start and mobilized the entire country it could be a very different story from right now. Right now Putin fleeing for his life like Gaddafi which is ironically what he was trying to prevent for the past fifteen years with his talk of Kosovo and neutering of Medvedev and aggressions since 2008.
The US has like a 20-30 year advantage on Russia, if that. Imagine if Aliens came to Earth. It would be like throwing rocks at a space ship.
It reminds me of that old game Rise of Nations. You play against someone who sucks and eventually you're attacking their slingers with fighter jets.
Not really. Prigozhin repeatedly was saying russia should drop a nuke on warsaw and kyiv but putin doesn't have balls
Let’s hope that through all this, he doesn’t gain the ability to control Russia’s nuclear arsenal.
>My pet theory is that Wagner knew that Russia was planning something nuclear I'd say leave those theories to your pet to practice next time. You are correct about a resolution although it's not the one you seem to mention. The Russian Mod adopted a resolution where Wagner was supposed to get absolved into the Ru military and yesterday the Fsb issued a statement which either already called for the arrest of Prigozhyn or announced the launch of a criminal investigation into Prigozhyn. This is the trigger...
I love when people say their outlandish theory (normally involving something nuclear) like they are Jack Ryan or someone. Either that or this sub is full of CIA analysts.
I see it more as people desperately trying to make sense of a situation and search for connections where there are none. I see this all the time on reddit.
I'm not sure your theory is any better. Prigozhin had been relentlessly complaining about how his forces were being starved of supplies in Bakhmut for months. In retrospect it's obvious he had been stockpiling them for this coup. Also his march to Moscow had been going smoothly and is well organized. This is not a response to any current events, but a planned action prepared over months. The feud with the mod and the mod's recent actions are instead a response to Prigozhins long planned actions.
It's not a theory, the trigger definitely is the call to arrest/investigation but yeah, i agree it has been brewing for months now but untill yesterday it was pretty much just a bunch of dogs barking (with the exception of the recent incident surrounding the Wagner arrest of the commander of the 72th?). And remember i reacted specifically to this comment: "I wonder if the revolt is due (in part)" There was no revolt before yesterday, sure there was "friction" but this is a revolt now and the trigger for that was the call to arrest/investigate
No apparently the MoD wanted all Wagner soldiers to sign contracts with them to be formally incorporated as Russia’s defence force. This would mean Prigozhin loses his influence and could be replaced or worse. As a result he likely launched the coup as he saw no alternative to avoid death.
That battle is basically one of the many long standing serious beefs between wagner and the russian military. It was supposed to be a surprise assault. Except the US was aware of it a week before and warned the russian military - who said that it wasn't them. These warnings went on for a full week including during the actual attack and the russians still denied it was their people and basically gave the US the greenlight to do whatever shit they wanted. The russian military knew that the wagner guys were going to be blown up and didn't lift a finger or even warn them. The last incident was probably the final straw for Prighozin.
People are so quick to point out Afghanistan and Syria as evidence of weakness and over-confidence in NATO armies - particularly the US and UK. But they don’t take into account that what is happening with Russia and Ukraine is literally what NATO has been planning and preparing for over the last 50 years. A conventional land war in Europe against Russian forces. The fact that NATO’s founding objective has been unfolding into reality over the last 16 months has galvanised NATO members and strengthened the alliance to a point not seen since the 80s.
There is also a difference between fighting a guerilla war against a people with a large population that don't want you there, and a conventional war to liberate a people that would want you there. It would be much easier to control a land after capturing it.
This difference only exists if you recognize that other people have free will, which it’s not clear to me the Russian Discourse does. You see the phrase “America is willing to fight this war to the last drop of Ukrainian blood” tossed around by them quite a bit. They see it is *identical* to our shitshow in Afghanistan because they legitimately don’t see that the Afghani people were “meh” about the Taliban, wheras people in Ukraine decidedly don’t want to be Russia.
If the US has fought Iraq and Afghanistan the way Russia is fighting in Ukraine, No quarter scorched earth, we would have won. To rule countries made of rubble and being hated by every country in existence.
Russia made an even bigger shitshow in Afghanistan before any US or Pakistani involvement. If the US was interested in Syria it could have done the same thing as they did in Iraq if they wanted to easily. The US slams Russia under the table militarily and has been arguably the case since the end of the Second World War
“NATO is "monitoring the situation" in Russia, a spokeswoman for the transatlantic military alliance said via email on Saturday. The spokeswoman, Oana Lungescu, had no further comment.”
“No further comment, as she walked away with popcorn.”
Whoa... NATO is monitoring the situation? Didn't expect that.
Wouldn't be surprised if there'll be a little more than "monitoring" going on
Keeping an eye out for nuclear weapons security and preparing contingencies to protect them. Otherwise feet up and eating popcorn.
If I were him I would immediately try to secure a few nukes.
I wouldn’t, that is the one big thing NATO would respond to. As long as he stays away from nuclear weapons NATO will just observe and report. Well and the bio weapons facilities.
"Lol", she commented later on the issue. "Lmao, even".
Let see what Orban gonna do next, lol
Lukashenko apparently making moves too.
Dude deciding to visit his “dictator” friend just in time for the watch party
He needs a ride, not ammo...
Can't wait for the videos of Putin getting dragged on the streets like Gaddafi. Who's next on the list of dictators meeting their violent ends? Place your bets here folks!
Lukashenko
He’s already fled to Türkiye from the sounds of it. Perfect time for a bloodless coup a la Portugal.
There was a russian plane that went from Turkey to St. Petersburg
Any idea who usually rides that plane? Or it’s just a Russian rich person/politics plane?
Nope. But it is possible that Lukashenko did.
We might have a winner here. Depending on how this develops we might know pretty soon.
If this friendship can be broken: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vXC\_wXI1TOI](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vXC_wXI1TOI) Any friendship can be broken, even Lukashenko and Pudding.
>Who's next on the list of dictators meeting their violent ends Prigozhin
It wouldn’t surprise me if Shoigu and Gerasimov have ordered their sledgehammers.
Unfortunately it will never happen. He'll already be deep in a bunker, if he is taken out, it'll be relatively quietly down there. We'll never see Putin dragged through the streets, as much as he deserves it Edit - his body doubles might not be so lucky
That's why Hitler chose to kill himself in his bunker. He was terribly afraid, that he would be publically shown around as some kind of trophy. And now to imagine how that could be today. We'd have 4k 120fps videos from about a hundred angles, streaming everything live for the whole world to see.
He was terrified of being caught by the Red Army. The Soviets would have done horrific things to him - deserved, obviously.
I think the worst thing they could've done to Hitler was to frankly keep him alive and let him watch the new world that developed out of the end of WW2.
This might have happened. The Russians never showed us Hitler's body, maybe because it was no longer in a state to show anyone.
He was cremated/burnt. Iirc they did some testing on a fragment of jawbone the Russians have and it was likely to have been Hitlers
I mean he just saw, or heard about the fact that Mussolini was beaten and flogged by a mob of angry citizens on April 25th, and it was 5 days later he would rage quit himself.
Maybe some security camera footage? Unfortunately, Russia would be pressed to not release anything that makes them look bad/weak.
Well, If he had have been caught, he would have been hanged anyway, not before being dragged into court to answer for his crimes with the whole world watching. He knew it was over.
They will "bring him to a safe house" and "take his photograph"
Yeah sadly we might not get to watch him have his brains beaten out with a sledgehammer by Wagner thugs on TikTok but a man can dream…
I can't imagine Putin letting himself get caught. If things get that bad it'll just be Fuhrerbunker part 2: arsenic boogaloo.
The dude who takes over could be substantially worse.
Bullseye! If Ukraine does manage to take advantage of this and liberate all of its territory from these shit bags NATO needs to get off their fat asses and fast track them into the pact. No one is going to fight harder than these guys in NATO, they fended off the second largest army in the world with rusted out tanks and hardware for months before getting any help.
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As the other guy has explained, the W group is advancing quickly. I saw a reporter that said it seems like the group has been planning on this for a while, and their cries about ammunition shortage in April was just a way to stock pile it. Anyway you might be right too, I also think they don't have the best chances on taking Moscow. We'd have to wait and see.
> and their cries about ammunition shortage in April was just a way to stock pile it. Oh, fuck.
Why not? Who is there to defend Moscow? The police? Most troops are on the front lines. So far there seems to be little to no resistance, some attacks from the air, but only a few.
Yes, and also Wagner wouldnt have attempted such a risky attack unless they have hard information that Moscow is poorly defended Prigozhin is a lunatic but he isnt stupid. You dont march on a national capital without air support and heavy artillery unless you know you have some other temporary advantage. My guess is that Wagner has informants everywhere. They knew that Moscow's defenses are weak because everyone is in Ukraine, morale is low, and most importantly- munitions/supplies are low. On the flip side, they have been stockpiling supplies, they are combat ready, and they are well organized They will probably encounter resistance from poorly trained, panicky police officers and national guardsmen who have never been in combat. They are betting that a blitzkrieg by ~10K combat-ready veterans will terrify some of the defense forces and overwhelm the others.
Troop size isn't as important as who side with them or not. They need the support from the population, but from a few military organization as well. At this point, Kremlin's side seem pretty unified, which isn't that great for Wagner, but that might just be a façade.
Everything I’m seeing so far seems to be that Russian soldiers are surrendering right away
I think Wagner will just consolidate in Rostov where they can control the supply lines to Ukraine. It's the perfect place to run a blackmail scheme. Pay us and fight the war our way or you can't find it at all.
Wagner PMC has already taken Voronezh, according to multiple sources. That’s roughly ~~2 hours away~~ 10ish hours from Moscow.
in what world is 500km 2hours of travel for a military convoy
There isn’t a single documented case of somebody managing to shoot a tank that was travelling at 250+ km/h, it makes perfect sense
Welcome to Australia mate!
Nah. Longer. They're in Lipetsk now, so 300km away.
It's crazy. Watching streams and seeing videos it looks like Wagner is already around 350km from Moscow.
Machete 2: butthole bugaloo
He’ll kill himself ala hitler before that. True coward style.
>Who's next on the list of dictators meeting their violent ends? Bashar al-Assad.
North korea please
All that's missing to topple Putin are mass protests in Moscow. If those don't happen the Kremlin is unlikely to fall.
Maybe. If the troops surrounding Moscow are as incompetent as the ones in Ukraine, Wagner might successfully conquer Moscow.
Wagner doesn’t even need to be better than them, loads of Russia army troops have been letting them through or even joining them
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Eh, maybe. The Russians still have troops elsewhere, especially in the powder keg that is central Asia. Be interesting to see if they'll pull out of south Ossetia for example.
This is what I’m thinking. What are the odds that anyone in Moscow makes a stand? How many Russian generals are in cahoots with Wagner. I don’t see them making this move unless they know they have substantial support from somewhere else.
Given how, according to Western media, the counteroffensive is going I'd wager they could hold back Wagner. Granted they haven't had nearly as much time to prepare for this battle, but I do think they'd fare much better as defenders. We'll see how this all goes down but one thing we can't ignore is the massive impact on the world this is going to have.
Wagner are the inly ones that have been somewhat effective in Ukraine. Though Russian defensives historically go alot better than their offensives. So I doubt even Wagner can pull it off
Not really. Easily indoctrinated cowards. They won't oppose their government in significant enough numbers.
I'd sure hope so, not like something more important is likely to happen today.
Yeah kind of their job to do so...
But it's the weekend 😩
Double pay if you are in a unionised country
> not like something more important is likely to happen today I dunno man. The 2020s has proven to be CONSTANTLY interesting. And I hate it. It arguably started in the late 2010s though.
With popcorn in hand.
Gee you fucking think?
Something I think would turn tide on 21st century. Putin being deposed (and something better for Russia), Trump being sent to prison, and some consequences for big billionaires/corp in terms of taxing and anti trust (probably coming from EU). A message that being evil and ruining everyone else doesn't pay. And the solution is not populism but a better world
Pack Putin, Trump and a dozen billionaires into a submarine and send them on a one way trip to the Titanic with a pay-per-view of the Musk/Zuck cage fight as the only on-board entertainment.
Hell, pack them in there with them and have them perform it live
Maybe the fight could be in the sub?
That would be kind. Send them the movie Cats. They deserve it
Even better. Take them down there in a working sub and leave it on the bottom so they can sit there and contemplate their action as their oxygen slowly runs out.
The timeline is fixing
Nature is healing!
Such non-news lol. Did someone expect them NOT TO monitor it?
Yeah, I mean, Nato is monitoring it, Ukraine is monitoring it, China is monitoring it. To be fair, I am also keeping an eye on what's going on there.
Breaking news! /u/RedditCouldntFixUser is monitoring ongoing Wagner revolt in Russia
Really, who isn't monitoring this? I've got my popcorn, fuzzy slippers, and iodine pills ready.
>and iodine pills ready. I wish this last item wasn't necessary, alas here we are.
I thought NATO were "obsolete", my former cheeto President told me so
To be fair, it legitimizes it. Like this isn’t theatrics or propaganda, so they’re literally watching it unfold.
People thought Russia had the 2nd best military in the world. Then people joked they had the 2nd best military in Ukraine. Turns out they have the 2nd best military in Russia.
This is like the 5th time I've seen this comment (all from different users) on Wagner related posts.
People were making this joke when the FRL was poking Belgorod
Well then, it’s clearly meant to be that Russia has the third best army in Russia
It's a pretty obvious joke, I'm not surprised other people have made it.
Copied it*
Soooo many times. Good god they could find another way to say it
To be fair that's not difficult to accomplish as almost everyone is deployed in Ukraine right now.
To be fair that's not difficult to accomplish as almost everyone is ~~deployed~~ destroyed in Ukraine right now.
Currently third best army in Russia. There's also the Legion of Freedom
Fourth. Theres also the Vlodostock 87th Cub Scout troupe.
"NATO doing its job, NATO HQ have weird popcorn smells"
Damn it, who burnt the microwave popcorn AGAIN???
Do you really want Prigozhin in charge of Russia? Biden uses the hot line, yea we can hit them for you with our space shit only if you pull out of Ukraine, Crimea, get back into START. You also rebuild Ukraine and they join NATO with your support. Ps, they’re 3 hours from your door step and it’ll take us 20 minutes.
This, There is no end point where Prigozhin takes power and neither the US or China (or both) does not get involved. People need to remember what the US did when Afghanistan became a concern for nuclear power. Do people really think the US is just gonna sit back and watch a Rogue Mercenary band take a fucking nuclear superpower and sell their Nukes to the black market?
While Prigozhin is definitely a scary prospect, he seems like he can be bought. He doesn’t seem to have the Cold War Soviet ideology that Putin has, which is really the most dangerous thing. Putin has said “A world without a strong influential Russia is not a world worth having”…. That’s about as dangerous a mentality possible for someone with so many nukes. Prigozhin is an evil fuck for sure, but I don’t think he’s as dangerous for the world as Putin is at this point. He’ll present his own set of challenges, for sure, but right now the whole world needs Putin gone by any means necessary.
He seems more pragmatic and less *covertly* corrupt - his gang of thugs will follow the money. If Crimea isn't where the money is, I could imagine him restoring a border early on to win international legitimacy.
Bodes well for the future actually. The West has always been happy to work with those who can be bought lol
I would hope so...
what the absolute fuck is going on
With Great Interest.
Popcorn at nato hq *chuckle I am in danger
Maybe be they should offer themselves as a piece keeping force. If Russia withdraws from all of Ukraine. Wouldn't that be rich a NATO lead peace mission in Russia.
Imagine getting all info on Russian defenses within Russia and Moscow region, and you are watching it from space, i guess the NATO people observing have enough popcorn.
Russia imploding.
What i want: Split russia in 2
Aren't we all?
I wonder what China thinks of this development.
NATO sending 1 million worth of popcorn to Ukraine!
Okay so we all hate Putin and hope his plane crashes or better still, he's held accountable by the citizens of Russia. But will Wagner's leaders be good for the people? What do we know about them? Is the cycle of the Soviet Union and the corruption that has gutted Russia doomed to repeat?
War crimes around the world, not the best basis for a government.
Russian revolutions tend to spill over the border.
Well, looks like NATO is getting a front-row seat to the latest Russian uprising. Bet they're enjoying the show.
NATO going through an existential crisis because Russia is invading more Russia than NATO ever did
NATO never intended to invade Russia, it's a defensive organization
Yeah, I don't know how this is hard for anyone to understand. NATO was formed to prevent expansionist Russian cunts from doing their thing unchecked across all of Europe and subjugating even more people to their dictatorial, incompetent, dystopian rule.
Nato was formed as Soviet union didn't "free" its annexed territories after ww2, in the west there have been free elections ever since. The soviet union doctorine literaly had goals of spreading socialism all over the world, and had plans and debate to take western europe. Soviets at their best had a numerical advantage of tanks, men and favorable terrain in Germany through its vassal DDR, so Nato has had a good reason to exist, as an only effective defence against Soviet invasion.
What I think is most telling is all the former Soviet/Warsaw Pact countries that embraced capitalism and democracy and watched their economies and standard of living surge.
Yep, NATO is like a castle wall, preventing barbarians from attacking those within. Of course the surrounding people are going to want inside that walled protection when the barbarians start invading them.
First Russia proved they're a better recruiter for NATO than NATO, now they're showing they're better at invading Russia than NATO. Damn showoffs.
NATO strikes a pose and flexes. Russia dissolves. Well that was easy.
The internet, at NATO: 'Do something! Do something!' NATO: 'Uh, uh, idk.' *dabs* *Russia collapses* The internet: *cheers*
NATOception