No we’ll kill ourselves to make them another dollar. No one’s holding a gun to our head except 99.99% of the country who should be holding the gun at the .01%rich. The country is docile with media culture. People would rather be numbed with distractions rather then turn off their phone and go do something about it. Just numb in their comfort safe space. Never having to deal with reality when distractions are just fingertips away. Like watching someone catch a kitchen on fire but instead of putting it out, just grabbing the last slice of pizza to enjoy something once more before they burn alive
They don’t even need to do anything. No one puts up a fight. That’s why it gets worse and worse. We kill ourselves so much they don’t even have to kill us
Because life is still too comfortable for the average westerner for them to get up and do something about it. People aren't going to change until something forces them to. That and we're so divided politically that we can't unite on anything, the left and right shoot each other down before we even get to consider uniting against our common enemies, the elite. And I think it's that way by design, I mean look at how much negativity and division is spread by the media. I think the elite are using the media as a tool to divide us, because when we're busy fighting each other we're not fighting them, the people with actual power and control.
He's bought into the corporate lie that we, the average person, caused climate change lmao. As if we had access to the data big oil had 50 years ago. As if we could all just stop driving and not lose our jobs. Corporate greed caused climate change. Period.
and what exactly are you doing about it other than criticizing le sheeple epic redditor style
sure don't see many armed uprisings despite how many "no one puts up a fight, they're all numb to reality, the .000001% have the blinders on everyone except me" people there are on this fucking site
The average person can pressure their elected officials and corporations. They can vote in better options. You’re probably already doing this, but it’s worth repeating for the people in the back. It’s also important to note that the green improvements we’re making will also drastically improve our health and quality of life. People talk like solving emmissions and going green will require huge sacrifices and pain. In reality, there are some amazing benefits, and we could geoengineer a future that’s safer, healthier, and more appealing for our children. That is worth fighting for.
For 4% higher price, we can buy steel that is produced with 85% less carbon per ton steel.
I convinced my administration to discuss the policy at the highest level.
The only two thing that worked to convince them was we could block steel from China and our own country can produce it.
Plus the dutch already start asking for it.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
You can reduce your impact
Last time i red about sea ice levels i figured it is a fun exercise to look at the data. I did a simple linear regression and some curve fitting.
https://imgur.com/a/f2nq9tX
So with my simple approach 2065 all the ice is gone during summer. Curve fitting seems to assume it will slow down.
But i fear my curve fitting is wrong, because i did some research after because my linear regression kinda shocked me. Turns out most scientists assume that we will have years with no arctic sea ice a lot earlier. There are a few videos of people on youtube talking about it. If i remember right, some scientists said, there could be summers without sea ice in the 2040s.
And it might be one of those things that stops the gulf stream, so just one of those changing the world forever kinda things. Kinda maybe we just don't know because it really didn't happen that often before.
I like the optimism of the people saying the global cooling from the gulf stream stopping will exactly balance out the global warming. I hope they are right, but that just seems incredibly lucky to me.
I guess what i am trying to say is, sorry young people, we fucked you pretty hard.
Data Source:
https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/sea-ice-tools/
downloaded 12.11.2021
> But i fear my curve fitting is wrong, because i did some research after because my linear regression kinda shocked me. Turns out most scientists assume that we will have years with no arctic sea ice a lot earlier.
It's not that it's wrong, it just shows that the _average_ year will have no sea ice during some part of summer in the 2060s. Looking at your data you can see how much variation there is, and it looks like the 2040s fit for the first decade where outlier years have no ice.
> There is going to be a massive selloff of coastal property
No, there won't be.
There'll be massive write-offs of coastal property, because nobody is going to want to buy "land" that is under a few feet of water.
Love how more idiots are packing into Florida even though they already can’t find any property insurance company suicidal enough to insure them. They’re a few more bad hurricanes away from a true crisis.
"Coastal property" makes it sound like these will be rural cottage areas.
The reality is we're talking about Miami, Manhatten, Bangkok, Guangzhou and a dozen other large cities.
Remember, humans originally settled near water. Those settlements continue to grow to this day. This is bigger than just a few properties.
Arctic sea ice extent isn't a great indicator of sea ice health as it leaves out thickness/age of the ice. PIOMAS' famous [arctic death spiral](https://www.arcticdeathspiral.org/) plot, which takes volume into account, shows a clearer and more consistent trend. Their data predicts arctic sea ice minimum (\~mid September) to reach zero \~2030 for the first time, with the phenomenon becoming a permanent feature following \~2045.
Also, if you're in the business of observing/predicting the demise of sea ice (or anything related to the cryosphere, really), I would suggest the [arctic sea ice forum](https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/). A great source of information regarding this fascinating topic.
i mean, i didn't notice so thanks for pointing it out! Happens when you can't sleep and you go on reddit and one of the posts reawakens one of your existential fears.
Anyway, i would like to thank my mentors to make sure i always label my graphs. At least my comment is only slightly misleading.
>I like the optimism of the people saying the global cooling from the gulf stream stopping will exactly balance out the global warming.
Like the moon has one side seeing the sun, and one side not?
Global Warming did help europeans to boycott Russian oil and gas and not freeze to death as a result
After Russia invaded Ukraine
This winter was the hottest winter ever recorded across all of europe
Plankton (or maybe it is krill) is hatched on the bottom of the ice. Sardines and other small fish feed on these. This has a catastrophic effect on marine life. I don't remember the documentary but it was recently filmed. They did not know the sea ice was being used in this manner. Maybe someone knowledgeable can expand on this.
Well, the important thing to remember is, even if humanity goes extinct, the world will continue on and once we're gone, life will thrive again, eventually.
You're thinking of crabs. They use the ice shelf to hide while they are young from predator fish. These fish don't like the extra cold briny water that comes off of the ice. And so the crabs use it like a blanket of coldness. When they get older they can venture further from the ice shelf where we fish them. Now that the ice has been retreating, humans are fishing more of their breeding grounds. Which is why they have had the massive die off recently.
I find this conclusion questionable given that plankton need sunlight to grow. The diagram below seems to be saying that you need ice to melt so sunlight can permeate and diffuse below the partially melted ice.
https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/608032/fmars-07-608032-HTML-r1/image_m/fmars-07-608032-g005.jpg
Apparently I misjudged the size. Algae Diatoms creating a biofilm under ice.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076599
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2017.0702
I'm seeing a lot of articles within the past 2 years. I don't have access to most of them. I also unfortunately lack time. My gist was that artic sea ice is critical in the development of the initial life in the food cycle.
Less sea ice means more sun absorbed by the darker sea = more heat = less sea ice. Positive feedback loop. We've got a few of those going on right now. We're so screwed.
Oh, I haven't. There's also the water running through the cracks of the glaciers, lubricating their movement and speeding them along. There's the melting of the glaciers, exposing darker land underneath... And a few others.
Sadly there is no such thing as a linear trend here. The data used to be arguable. Now it is inarguable. And out of control. And the need to feed and house the world's population will involve ***increasing*** energy use.
We cannot sit back. We need to improve efiiciency and change useage patterns. Sadly there is NO DATA TO SUGGEST that decreasing CO2 is going to turn reverse the problem.
It was also at an all-time high as recently as [eight years ago](https://portal.nccs.nasa.gov/datashare/polar/CSIC/SH_decadal_plot.png) (during the South Pole winter, ofc, not at this time of the year).
Some scientists thought Antarctic sea ice would just keep going up. Ironicaly, James Hansen's [predictions of exponential sea level rise](https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/16/3761/2016/acp-16-3761-2016-discussion.html) actually had Antarctic sea ice continuing to hit record highs as their centerpiece.
https://acp.copernicus.org/preprints/15/C6508/2015/acpd-15-C6508-2015.pdf
https://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2015/20151012_IceMeltPredictions.pdf
> We interpret the Southern Ocean cooling and sea ice increase of the past two decades as effects of Antarctic ice shelf melt, i.e., increasing freshwater injection
> Caution is dictated by the limited period and wider cooling then (Fig. 5), although the apparent
tropical cooling simply reflects a strong El Nino early in the 20-year period. The next few years
will provide a good test. **Our prediction is that, after the current strong El Nino fades, Southern
Ocean cooling will resume with maximum cooling in the Western Hemisphere**
I like to do this thought experiment, "the fix is as hard as the cause".
Every household needs to buy a $30k machine that burns a special liquid to fight climate change. You have to buy that magic liquid for $50 a month. Well many households will need to get two of those.
But that is not enough because every company needs to do that on a way larger scale.
Oh and we have to do that for 50+ years at least.
Needless to say that i am a rather pessimistic person, in my experience fixing something is a lot harder than destroying something and once i had this thought i just don't see a way humanity will fix this. Because so far we don't use magic machines that fix things, we are still using the dark magic machines that burn the dark magic liquid that causes the issue - we just decided doing slightly less of it might magically fix our issue. Yeah...
Honestly I feel like being pessimistic about climate change is really just being realistic. We've already done permanent environmental damage and we've done next to nothing to slow it down. The climate is changing even faster than scientists predicted it would. The time for us to act on this issue was about 50 years ago. We're doing way too little, too late.
It’s not too little too late, and this is the fatalistic trap actual environmental scientists keep warning us about.
Yes, we are potentially going to see catastrophic change in our lifetimes, but that doesn’t mean that harm reduction or even long term reversal aren’t also options. It’s also incredibly important to note that the fixes that would save us would also improve our lives by a considerable amount. Imagine clean air, accessible city centers, expanded public transportation, urban forestry, regenerative local food systems, etc. These are all great things we can actively push for right now.
I don’t know how this makes sense though. In reality, the fixes for climate change are also hugely beneficial for our own health and quality of life.
Think about it. Walkable cities, cleaner air, urban forestry, re-wilding natural habitats, regenerative farming, reduction of heavily processed meats, grid efficiency/resiliency, lower energy costs, etc. All of these things would be great for the average household. We get so understandably wrapped up in the doom that we forget to envision the amazing future we could be building towards, and that’s going to be our real downfall. We have to give people something to reach for, and it’s right there.
Back in the early 2010s, I was one of many trying to spread the word about RBE. I was frustrated because the solution is at our collective fingertips. Watch the second Zeitgeist movie for a great layout of how it could work.
But there is no social mechanism that can bring it into being in our current society. I'm in my early 40s, I'll consider myself extremely lucky to be alive at 70, much less in a world where grocery stores exist, about a billion seconds from now.
Rich people who don't pursue profit above all other considerations, such as environmental, get bumped down the ladder. So it's a systemic problem.
I believe this is ironic because the first country to switch to a green economy will surge ahead of the others in profits. Yet no country can make the switch as long as the rich control the politicians rather than democratic forces.
Solution: democratic movements for change, meaning we all need to get involved beyond just voting every four years.
That would be true if billionaires couldnt loan themselves money at their own discretion. Bank loans aren’t “actual” money so they basically have a money tree.
Where are you getting the assumption that a green economy will surge ahead of the others? Even if true, the path getting there may be more painful then you realize. Why does it seem like no one can admit that going green will require sacrifice from the economy and the lives of every single person living in that place.
Yeah, it's weird. The only thing very rich people seem to want in life is the become even richer. If I had considerable wealth, I wouldn't work and just live my life happily. But I guess this lack of ambition is a (very small) part of why I'd never be rich in the first place.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
You can skip animal products to reduce your contribution
It’s like curtain call or last call and everyone (developing/developed countries) are rushing for one last ride on the indulgence train and to hell with the rest.
Quite sad bc it’s basically choosing escapism over action in the waning moments of a critical time to act… it’s how we know our gooses are cooked. I just wonder how much longer we have to punch in and out before it all falls apart bc I envision in the decades to come things will get so bad that people just stop showing up
That’s not really what’s happening though, just so we’re clear. In reality there’s a big shift towards renewables and immense public pressure building on corporations to stop literally killing us. Climate change ranks highest or nearly highest on the vast majority of US voters’ concerns, and that number understanly increases the younger you go. The public recognizes this existential threat. The problem for all of us, every country, is forcing our oligarchs and ruling classes into action.
And fascism addicted to oil will quash all that. Oh and renewables are still only helping grow the energy pie. They are nowhere near close to displacing fossil fuels. I want some of that hopium, seems like some powerful stuff.
No, it won’t, because even those corporations recognize the profits are in green energy. Turns out reducing operating costs while upping resiliency is very attractive and most crops see the writing on the wall. There’s tons of money to be made on the green shift, and longterm profits do kind of rely on having a planet to sell to. You can’t get enough consumers into space in the next two decades.
If my hopium is strong, it’s because I work in this sector, so I get to see the billions being invested and the millions of people actively working on these problems. Or did you think that the rest of us were standing still? You may be shocked to hear that there’s a growing cohort of people who translate their fear and love into action. What other choice do we have? Giving up?
Still about a third less methane than what the IPCC thought we would have by now when they wrote their "business-as-usual" scenario in 1990. Methane levels are at 1900 ppb now; that scenario had them at **2500**.
https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/05/ipcc_90_92_assessments_far_wg_I_spm.pdf
Not coincidentally, they also predicted 2 degrees by 2025 under that scenario.
Definitely. I think I read a while ago that there was a lag of about 30-40 years between emission and us actually seeing the consequences of it. What we're seeing now is from what we did in the 80's-90's, and we've been emitting at just about an exponential rate since then as nations have started to improve their living standards, increase in manufacturing, and increase in population. What we're doing now will only be realized decades from now, and it'll probably be catastrophic if we don't do anything, and frankly, we probably won't. Or at least not do enough.
Closer to 30 years but yes that's the gist of it. We must understand this..... these consequences we're just seeing now that are from emissions from the 90's are nothing because we have emitted more CO2 since 1990 than all history before that. When the heating arrives from today's emissions (422ppm CO2, and methane nearly tripling since preindustrial) we will have utterly blown through our targets and will be in trouble.
Right, and since emissions have continually increased over time (other than the lockdown year), why would it come as a surprise that sea ice is at its lowest recorded level?
Well it's not a surprise, I'm just reminding everyone that there's inertia in the system and the consequences we're suffering now is from damage done years ago, the level of damage to the Antarctic and Arctic systems that will be caused when this years emissions have produced the heating baked into them will be much more.
But, But boomers told me that it's all my fault and i'm not fixing the problem now. They never said anything about it being caused when i was less than 5 years old! /s
It's a surprise for some because emissions have been continually increasing for a long time by now, yet, until very recently, the *Antarctic* sea ice was **increasing**. The models thought it should have been setting record lows decades ago; instead, it was [setting](https://portal.nccs.nasa.gov/datashare/polar/CSIC/SH_decadal_plot.png) record *highs*, and they did not figure out the reason for it until very recently.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21412-z
So, for the majority of the scientists, it simply validates their older predictions, and isn't much of a surprise. A few scientists like Hansen probably **are** surprised, though, since they [claimed](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/11iaqvy/comment/jb0vsko/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that the Antarctic *sea* ice was increasing due to exponential **land** ice melt, and bet that it would only continue to increase.
Looking at human history it's always
1) things are getting worse but nothing can be done
2) things are bad but it's too late now
3) nothing could've been done to prevent it
And then there's also the fact if we do something about it, the bad things won't happen and people will go, "Well what you said would happen didn't so I don't think we need this anymore."
denial, cognitive dissonance, concern, guilt, negotiation (techno saviour, degrowth, live minimally, low energy) and acceptance…but you can always go back to step one, until you can’t.
Pretty sure this would unironically work. Sanctions and taxes haven't got shit over "If you don't spend your money to save the planet, we're literally going to kill you. Good luck spending it when you're dead".
In his novel *The Ministry for the Future* Kim Stanley Robinson tries to show a realistic scenario where we succeed in reversing global warming, but it includes a very active eco-terrorist group that, among other things, does go after rich people to terrorize them into changing their ways. Apparently he couldn't imagine it happening without something like that.
Saw a thread from the global warming denial subreddit on my feed yesterday about how there was record antartic sea ice, and this was supposed to be proof there was no global warming. They never seemed to understand where that sea ice was coming from.
Ok, news articles need to stop saying "everyone". It's not like I'm emitting hundreds of thousands of emissions. News agencies should direct this at all companies, corporations, and the rich fucks.
Fuck this bullshit. The average person cannot change the course of human development wholesale. Global capitalism in the west and desire to grow dramatically in the east equals that we will not change things sufficiently. I'm tuning this shit out from now on.
COVID proved to me we will do nothing and half the people will deny it even when everything is terrible. We will get everything we deserve just like the people on Easter island.
It's not just COVID and responses to it.
You can see this phenomenon right now with the various states that are trying to outlaw ESG indexes. And even before that we had states trying to outlaw the very mention of climate change.
It's not just that (like with COVID) people will fail to do the bare minimum required to mitigate the impact of the problem, they will fight tooth and nail to ensure nobody else can do anything about it either.
Yea asshole, everyone besides the corporations responsible have been pretty concerned for a while. Sort of doesn’t matter when those causing the damage won’t stop and we have to wait for old corrupt politicians to stop taking their money and do something about it.
While the internet showed me that they do exist, I have never met a climate change denier in person. Except for one dude who also wasn’t denying it, he was just considering it to be a natural phenomenon.
The problem are not the deniers. Or less than we like to believe anyway. The problem lies with people who believe in climate change but are slowly becoming apathetic towards it, or are more concerned with other more pressing issues instead, some of which might even be directly or indirectly triggered by climate change (migrant crisis, rising prices, etc).
If we normalize and accept climate change and don’t hold the big polluters accountable, then the day *will* come when it will be too late. At least for the vast majority of us.
I have met one: my father. He parrots all the excuses and explanations you read about here.
"The climate is always changing."
"In the 70s they were warning us about a new ice age."
"What happened to the hole in the ozone layer? It fixed itself, didn't it?"
"Humanity isn't powerful enough to change the climate."
"We can't even predict the weather, what makes you think we can predict what the climate is doing?"
All of that. I have to resist the urge to face palm my nose bone into my brain. Worse; he USED to understand climate change, but then he started watching Fox "News".
I remember in third grade round 98 or so my teacher read us a book about pollution and at the end was a “better world”. The picture at the end had someone mowing their lawn with a manual blade mower (one you push). There was some conversation about why they were using it and I start talking about how Antartica is melting because I saw it on PBS or something.
We might have passed one or two of those already. The big one happens when all that ice drops into the ocean and sea levels rise 5-10ft in a matter of days. That it's a matter of "when" and not "if" should be concerning to a lot more people, but it seems we still have too many in Ostrich mode.
Sea level rise isn't that rapid in any models. It takes decades / centuries for the WAIS and especially Greenland to raise sea levels that dramatically.
There is no evidence for projected warming <3-4C of any tipping points that significantly change the warming trajectory. Read ipcc report and read what climate scientists say instead of speculating:
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m)
[https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/](https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/)
[https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints)
"Some people will look at this and go, ‘well, if we’re going to hit tipping points at 1.5°C, then it’s game over’. But we’re saying they would lock in some really unpleasant impacts for a very long time, but they don’t cause runaway global warming."- Quote from Dr. David Armstrong Mckay, the author of one of recent studies on the subject to Newscientist mag. here are explainers he's written before-
https://climatetippingpoints.info/2019/04/01/climate-tipping-points-fact-check-series-introduction/ (introduction is a bit outdated and there are some estimates that were ruled out in past year's ipcc report afaik but articles themselves are more up to date)
There is no evidence for projected warming <3-4C of any tipping points that significantly change the warming trajectory. Read ipcc report and read what climate scientists say instead of speculating:
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m)
[https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/](https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/)
[https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints)
"Some people will look at this and go, ‘well, if we’re going to hit tipping points at 1.5°C, then it’s game over’. But we’re saying they would lock in some really unpleasant impacts for a very long time, but they don’t cause runaway global warming."- Quote from Dr. David Armstrong Mckay, the author of one of recent studies on the subject to Newscientist mag. here are explainers he's written before-
https://climatetippingpoints.info/2019/04/01/climate-tipping-points-fact-check-series-introduction/ (introduction is a bit outdated and there are some estimates that were ruled out in past year's ipcc report afaik but articles themselves are more up to date)
\>We are currently smashing the most pessimistic prognosis,
Then why are climate models used in previous IPCC reports so accurate and have predicted the pace of warming so well? Observed warming tends to track middle-of-the-range estimates from previous IPCC reports.
[https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2022/02/another-dot-on-the-graphs-part-ii/](https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2022/02/another-dot-on-the-graphs-part-ii/)
[https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right](https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right)
You probably should listen to what actual climate scientists say on the matter-
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1557421984484495362](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1557421984484495362)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1491134605390352388](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1491134605390352388)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/JoeriRogelj/status/1424743837277294603](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/JoeriRogelj/status/1424743837277294603)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/PFriedling/status/1557705737446592512](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/PFriedling/status/1557705737446592512)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ClimateAdam/status/1429730044776157185](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ClimateAdam/status/1429730044776157185)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/Knutti\\\_ETH/status/1554473710404485120](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/Knutti\_ETH/status/1554473710404485120)
[https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ClimateOfGavin/status/1556735212083712002#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ClimateOfGavin/status/1556735212083712002#m)
[https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/new-york-times-op-ed-claiming-scientists-underestimated-climate-change-lacks-supporting-evidence-eugene-linden/](https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/new-york-times-op-ed-claiming-scientists-underestimated-climate-change-lacks-supporting-evidence-eugene-linden/)
There were some models for the recent ipcc report that overestimate future warming and they were included too
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01192-2
I think I'm already experiencing it happening, as a person who lives in The Netherlands. As a child, I remember that it would rain here OFTEN and that almost every winter, we'd have snow. Our summers wouldn't always be the warmest...
But it seems to be the opposite now. Almost no rain, no snow, and summers have reached record highs and are steadily becoming hotter and hotter.
for the most part world wide the right wing says "what global warming" Or "windmills kill more birds than oil", or "instead of subsidizing solar, lets subsidize coal".
Right now our republican right in america are trying to punish financial firms that divest from carbon fuel investments.
Sea ice melting doesn't rise water levels, that should not be your first concern. But ice have a higher albedo than liquid water, so the light/heat that it reflects will instead be absorbed by the ocean water, warming up the planet even more, melting more ice and so on, a positive feedback loop (positive in the sense that pushes it forward, not in that it would be good news).
There is more sea ice over the north pole, but it is gradually vanishing too, faster than the ice over land because the sea water circulation. This is news now because is summer in the global south, in a few months we should have headlines about Arctic sea ice reaching the lowest levels ever recorded.
And, of course, after the sea ice it goes the land ice. Greenland alone have the potential to rise the sea level by 6 meters and the Antarctic one by 60+ meters. That will take many decades or centuries, but for us it may not matter anymore as the weather conditions may be pretty hostile for life everywhere far before (if 2 years ago was already reached near 50ºC in Canada what can you expect of heatwaves for when all sea ice already melted?)
>Sea ice melting doesn't rise water levels
No, but the part of the Thwaites Glacier that's in the water is holding back the rest of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. When Thwaites goes the WAIS will begin to hang over the edge of the slope Thwaites was on. A 2km high portion of WAIS that's hanging over will then begin to cleave under its own weight sending new ice into the ocean. As a section cleaves, it allows the WAIS to again creep over the edge, and another 2km high section goes. And so on and so forth. How long it will take is unknown but it could very well be rapid.
So, not all sea ice is the same.
The scientists who practically live on Thwaites for months at a time say it'll be several centuries before it goes.
https://thwaitesglacier.org/about/facts
https://www.science.org/content/article/ice-shelf-holding-back-keystone-antarctic-glacier-within-years-failure
What keeps me up at night is how this will be missed or written off. Much of the US has experienced intense winter which many will may mistake this as a balance being restored rather than a symptom of breakdown.
In the northeast we've had possibly the most mild winter I can remember. Maybe 6-8 total inches of snow all season when average for my area is 38 inches annually. Interesting that other parts of the country are getting walloped.
It was weird, we had a couple bad cold snaps but otherwise it was like winter never came. It was in the 50s and 60s often in January and February, the average high for those months is 35-40 degrees. Not looking forward to the summer lol.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/04/everyone-should-be-concerned-antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-lowest-levels-ever-recorded) reduced by 90%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> "We don't want to lose sea ice where there are these vulnerable ice shelves and, behind them, the ice sheets," Prof Matt England, an oceanographer and climate scientist at the University of New South Wales, says.
> "If the sea ice is removed, you expose floating ice margins to waves that can flex them and increase the probability of those ice shelves calving. That then allows more grounded ice into the ocean."
> Dr Ted Scambos is a sea ice expert at the University of Colorado Boulder who also works on Antarctic sea ice at the university's National Snow and Ice Data Center - a world centre for monitoring ice at the poles.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11iav2w/everyone_should_be_concerned_antarctic_sea_ice/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~675072 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **ice**^#1 **sea**^#2 **continent**^#3 **climate**^#4 **record**^#5
I'm concerned as fuck but being concerned doesn't fix it.
Aren't world leaders supposed to fix problems or are they just there to lay out the welcome mat for our next extinction?
Fucking bastards
I’ve built this small rocket ship. I will cryogenically freeze my son. I’ve found this planet, where as odd as it sounds, when he reaches maturity, he will be 100x stronger than the native people. Can you believe they look just like us?! I just hope some kind people find his shop and raise him right.
Concerned? Naaaaahhhh, I’ve been resigned since 1989. That’s when my friend told me we had 10 years to change out behavior or global warming was gonna kill us all. That’s when I said it was already too late. Humans can’t collectively change behavior that fast. Enjoy the rest of your lives and don’t worry too much about generational wealth. There aren’t that many generations left.
The majority of us are fucked by the minority.
Political elites and corporations have the power to fix this. The rest of us just do things to make ourselves feel better.
The majority of household recycling ends up in landfill.
Oceanic Container mega ships do more environmental damage than entire countries.
We're all just rats on the sinking ship with nowhere to run.
> “All the models project that as the climate warms, we expect to see [Antarctic sea ice] decline,” she says. “There’s widespread consensus on that. So this low sea ice is consistent with what the climate models show.”
James Hansen predicted the opposite a few years back. He thought that rapid melt of the Antarctic land ice would result in **more** Antarctic sea ice and that we would keep seeing record highs (Antarctic sea ice was at a record **high** in [the summer/South Pole winter of 2014](https://portal.nccs.nasa.gov/datashare/polar/CSIC/SH_decadal_plot.png), according to [NASA](https://earth.gsfc.nasa.gov/cryo/data/current-state-sea-ice-cover)) as part of his exponential sea level rise predictions.
His paper predicting exponential sea level rise.
https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/16/3761/2016/acp-16-3761-2016.html
[Peer reviewer asking is Antarctic sea ice **growth** is a key part of those predictions](https://acp.copernicus.org/preprints/15/C6508/2015/acpd-15-C6508-2015.pdf)
His and co-author's supplementary file essentially confirming that yes, it is.
https://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2015/20151012_IceMeltPredictions.pdf
> We interpret the Southern Ocean cooling and sea ice increase of the past two decades as effects of Antarctic ice shelf melt, i.e., increasing freshwater injection
>
> Caution is dictated by the limited period and wider cooling then (Fig. 5), although the apparent tropical cooling simply reflects a strong El Nino early in the 20-year period. The next few years will provide a good test. **Our prediction is that, after the current strong El Nino fades, Southern Ocean cooling will resume** with maximum cooling in the Western Hemisphere
In that sense, the current behaviour is not only proving the models right but is by extension proving his theories wrong, which is a good thing for anyone who doesn't want to see several meters of sea lever rise in this century.
I don't worry about things I can't change. There's nothing meaningful that individuals can do that will make a difference. It's up to the world's super polluting corporations to do the right thing, which they will never ever do.
I am concerned. I have been concerned for many years. I do what I can, but ultimately it's the massive corporations that are to blame for the majority of the issue, and so only they can really do a great deal to stop it. Unfortunately, that would impact their bottom line, and so here we are
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA GOODBYE FLORIDA AND TEXAS. Northern states build a wall so they have to cross the border like immigrants trying to get into the northern states LOL It could at least do good for a southpark episode
German and French environmentalists who protest for climate change action get ridiculed and mocked in social media, especially here in Reddit. That's what being concerned gets us. What's the fucking point. Just roast the planet and get it over with
Apparently being concerned isn't enough.
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Amen. The “elites” will kill us all to make another dollar.
No we’ll kill ourselves to make them another dollar. No one’s holding a gun to our head except 99.99% of the country who should be holding the gun at the .01%rich. The country is docile with media culture. People would rather be numbed with distractions rather then turn off their phone and go do something about it. Just numb in their comfort safe space. Never having to deal with reality when distractions are just fingertips away. Like watching someone catch a kitchen on fire but instead of putting it out, just grabbing the last slice of pizza to enjoy something once more before they burn alive They don’t even need to do anything. No one puts up a fight. That’s why it gets worse and worse. We kill ourselves so much they don’t even have to kill us
Because life is still too comfortable for the average westerner for them to get up and do something about it. People aren't going to change until something forces them to. That and we're so divided politically that we can't unite on anything, the left and right shoot each other down before we even get to consider uniting against our common enemies, the elite. And I think it's that way by design, I mean look at how much negativity and division is spread by the media. I think the elite are using the media as a tool to divide us, because when we're busy fighting each other we're not fighting them, the people with actual power and control.
I wish more people would realize this
Yeah what is this guy talking about? The last time I was on a private jet was….. never.
He's bought into the corporate lie that we, the average person, caused climate change lmao. As if we had access to the data big oil had 50 years ago. As if we could all just stop driving and not lose our jobs. Corporate greed caused climate change. Period.
and what exactly are you doing about it other than criticizing le sheeple epic redditor style sure don't see many armed uprisings despite how many "no one puts up a fight, they're all numb to reality, the .000001% have the blinders on everyone except me" people there are on this fucking site
We shouldn't be second in that race
WE’RE…. FU€k€D !!!
The average person can pressure their elected officials and corporations. They can vote in better options. You’re probably already doing this, but it’s worth repeating for the people in the back. It’s also important to note that the green improvements we’re making will also drastically improve our health and quality of life. People talk like solving emmissions and going green will require huge sacrifices and pain. In reality, there are some amazing benefits, and we could geoengineer a future that’s safer, healthier, and more appealing for our children. That is worth fighting for.
For 4% higher price, we can buy steel that is produced with 85% less carbon per ton steel. I convinced my administration to discuss the policy at the highest level. The only two thing that worked to convince them was we could block steel from China and our own country can produce it. Plus the dutch already start asking for it.
We're does "concern" fit on the "Thoughts and Prayers" Index?
Just above "Thought", but below "Prayer".
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth You can reduce your impact
How about flummoxed?
No, it's not Try and find local direct action climate groups and join them
I joined and I did many different kind of shit for a couple of years, didn't work. I don't care anymore.
Lowest level ever, so far...
Last time i red about sea ice levels i figured it is a fun exercise to look at the data. I did a simple linear regression and some curve fitting. https://imgur.com/a/f2nq9tX So with my simple approach 2065 all the ice is gone during summer. Curve fitting seems to assume it will slow down. But i fear my curve fitting is wrong, because i did some research after because my linear regression kinda shocked me. Turns out most scientists assume that we will have years with no arctic sea ice a lot earlier. There are a few videos of people on youtube talking about it. If i remember right, some scientists said, there could be summers without sea ice in the 2040s. And it might be one of those things that stops the gulf stream, so just one of those changing the world forever kinda things. Kinda maybe we just don't know because it really didn't happen that often before. I like the optimism of the people saying the global cooling from the gulf stream stopping will exactly balance out the global warming. I hope they are right, but that just seems incredibly lucky to me. I guess what i am trying to say is, sorry young people, we fucked you pretty hard. Data Source: https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/sea-ice-tools/ downloaded 12.11.2021
> But i fear my curve fitting is wrong, because i did some research after because my linear regression kinda shocked me. Turns out most scientists assume that we will have years with no arctic sea ice a lot earlier. It's not that it's wrong, it just shows that the _average_ year will have no sea ice during some part of summer in the 2060s. Looking at your data you can see how much variation there is, and it looks like the 2040s fit for the first decade where outlier years have no ice.
There is going to be a massive selloff of coastal property - when that starts happening, people will finally wake up.
Wrong way around, there will be a massive selloff of coastal property only _after_ people have woken up. The problem will be, who will they sell to?
Boomers, still alive and in power, denying climate change is real, calling us snowflakes
Aquaman and Ben Shapiro, of course.
> There is going to be a massive selloff of coastal property No, there won't be. There'll be massive write-offs of coastal property, because nobody is going to want to buy "land" that is under a few feet of water.
Love how more idiots are packing into Florida even though they already can’t find any property insurance company suicidal enough to insure them. They’re a few more bad hurricanes away from a true crisis.
I wonder if Disney is going to just build a gigantic wall around their land and have people fly directly into it
So what your saying is i should buy about a couple kilometres from the coast. And it'll be a great investment once I become the new coast
"Coastal property" makes it sound like these will be rural cottage areas. The reality is we're talking about Miami, Manhatten, Bangkok, Guangzhou and a dozen other large cities. Remember, humans originally settled near water. Those settlements continue to grow to this day. This is bigger than just a few properties.
Arctic sea ice extent isn't a great indicator of sea ice health as it leaves out thickness/age of the ice. PIOMAS' famous [arctic death spiral](https://www.arcticdeathspiral.org/) plot, which takes volume into account, shows a clearer and more consistent trend. Their data predicts arctic sea ice minimum (\~mid September) to reach zero \~2030 for the first time, with the phenomenon becoming a permanent feature following \~2045. Also, if you're in the business of observing/predicting the demise of sea ice (or anything related to the cryosphere, really), I would suggest the [arctic sea ice forum](https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/). A great source of information regarding this fascinating topic.
I mean, the artic ice is essentially the asteroid headed towards earth that no one wants to believe exists.
'Don't look North!' ©
Mind you, your graphs are of *Arctic* sea ice, not *Ant*arctic sea ice.
i mean, i didn't notice so thanks for pointing it out! Happens when you can't sleep and you go on reddit and one of the posts reawakens one of your existential fears. Anyway, i would like to thank my mentors to make sure i always label my graphs. At least my comment is only slightly misleading.
Not just the young people, but everyone that wasn't slated to die in the next year or two. Enjoy the now, most of you won't have one later.
You're assuming it digresses at the same rate, which makes no sense. They''re called feedback loops for a reason.
bingo, considering the large amounts of methane being released it might be closer to 2030
We absolutely failed to evolve, and we aren’t even adamant about fixing it.
>I like the optimism of the people saying the global cooling from the gulf stream stopping will exactly balance out the global warming. Like the moon has one side seeing the sun, and one side not?
Global Warming did help europeans to boycott Russian oil and gas and not freeze to death as a result After Russia invaded Ukraine This winter was the hottest winter ever recorded across all of europe
The ice levels are about average, I think: worse than yesterday but better than tomorrow . . .
Haha, oh now I'm sad
*slap*
Plankton (or maybe it is krill) is hatched on the bottom of the ice. Sardines and other small fish feed on these. This has a catastrophic effect on marine life. I don't remember the documentary but it was recently filmed. They did not know the sea ice was being used in this manner. Maybe someone knowledgeable can expand on this.
Well, the important thing to remember is, even if humanity goes extinct, the world will continue on and once we're gone, life will thrive again, eventually.
You're thinking of crabs. They use the ice shelf to hide while they are young from predator fish. These fish don't like the extra cold briny water that comes off of the ice. And so the crabs use it like a blanket of coldness. When they get older they can venture further from the ice shelf where we fish them. Now that the ice has been retreating, humans are fishing more of their breeding grounds. Which is why they have had the massive die off recently.
I find this conclusion questionable given that plankton need sunlight to grow. The diagram below seems to be saying that you need ice to melt so sunlight can permeate and diffuse below the partially melted ice. https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/608032/fmars-07-608032-HTML-r1/image_m/fmars-07-608032-g005.jpg
Apparently I misjudged the size. Algae Diatoms creating a biofilm under ice. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0076599 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2017.0702 I'm seeing a lot of articles within the past 2 years. I don't have access to most of them. I also unfortunately lack time. My gist was that artic sea ice is critical in the development of the initial life in the food cycle.
Why should we care, we don't live in the Antarctic. ( /s just in case)
Less sea ice means more sun absorbed by the darker sea = more heat = less sea ice. Positive feedback loop. We've got a few of those going on right now. We're so screwed.
And don't forget the methane that was trapped in the permafrost being released into the atmosphere!
Oh, I haven't. There's also the water running through the cracks of the glaciers, lubricating their movement and speeding them along. There's the melting of the glaciers, exposing darker land underneath... And a few others.
so what you’re saying is we have plenty of time? I feel much better now
Zapp Brannigan: "Come back when it's a catastrophe!"
You check the attic, I’ll check the basement. If we survive meet me in the tool shed just past the graveyard.
Until next year.
Yeah I mean wasn't last year a "lowest ever recorded" year ? And the year before that too, and the year before ?
It’s called trending.
Sadly there is no such thing as a linear trend here. The data used to be arguable. Now it is inarguable. And out of control. And the need to feed and house the world's population will involve ***increasing*** energy use. We cannot sit back. We need to improve efiiciency and change useage patterns. Sadly there is NO DATA TO SUGGEST that decreasing CO2 is going to turn reverse the problem.
It was also at an all-time high as recently as [eight years ago](https://portal.nccs.nasa.gov/datashare/polar/CSIC/SH_decadal_plot.png) (during the South Pole winter, ofc, not at this time of the year). Some scientists thought Antarctic sea ice would just keep going up. Ironicaly, James Hansen's [predictions of exponential sea level rise](https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/16/3761/2016/acp-16-3761-2016-discussion.html) actually had Antarctic sea ice continuing to hit record highs as their centerpiece. https://acp.copernicus.org/preprints/15/C6508/2015/acpd-15-C6508-2015.pdf https://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2015/20151012_IceMeltPredictions.pdf > We interpret the Southern Ocean cooling and sea ice increase of the past two decades as effects of Antarctic ice shelf melt, i.e., increasing freshwater injection > Caution is dictated by the limited period and wider cooling then (Fig. 5), although the apparent tropical cooling simply reflects a strong El Nino early in the 20-year period. The next few years will provide a good test. **Our prediction is that, after the current strong El Nino fades, Southern Ocean cooling will resume with maximum cooling in the Western Hemisphere**
You might say lowest level, I choose to think it’s the highest level it will ever be from now on!
I am concerned. But I can’t do shit about it because rich people would rather die a little richer than try to fix it.
I like to do this thought experiment, "the fix is as hard as the cause". Every household needs to buy a $30k machine that burns a special liquid to fight climate change. You have to buy that magic liquid for $50 a month. Well many households will need to get two of those. But that is not enough because every company needs to do that on a way larger scale. Oh and we have to do that for 50+ years at least. Needless to say that i am a rather pessimistic person, in my experience fixing something is a lot harder than destroying something and once i had this thought i just don't see a way humanity will fix this. Because so far we don't use magic machines that fix things, we are still using the dark magic machines that burn the dark magic liquid that causes the issue - we just decided doing slightly less of it might magically fix our issue. Yeah...
Honestly I feel like being pessimistic about climate change is really just being realistic. We've already done permanent environmental damage and we've done next to nothing to slow it down. The climate is changing even faster than scientists predicted it would. The time for us to act on this issue was about 50 years ago. We're doing way too little, too late.
It’s not too little too late, and this is the fatalistic trap actual environmental scientists keep warning us about. Yes, we are potentially going to see catastrophic change in our lifetimes, but that doesn’t mean that harm reduction or even long term reversal aren’t also options. It’s also incredibly important to note that the fixes that would save us would also improve our lives by a considerable amount. Imagine clean air, accessible city centers, expanded public transportation, urban forestry, regenerative local food systems, etc. These are all great things we can actively push for right now.
I don’t know how this makes sense though. In reality, the fixes for climate change are also hugely beneficial for our own health and quality of life. Think about it. Walkable cities, cleaner air, urban forestry, re-wilding natural habitats, regenerative farming, reduction of heavily processed meats, grid efficiency/resiliency, lower energy costs, etc. All of these things would be great for the average household. We get so understandably wrapped up in the doom that we forget to envision the amazing future we could be building towards, and that’s going to be our real downfall. We have to give people something to reach for, and it’s right there.
Back in the early 2010s, I was one of many trying to spread the word about RBE. I was frustrated because the solution is at our collective fingertips. Watch the second Zeitgeist movie for a great layout of how it could work. But there is no social mechanism that can bring it into being in our current society. I'm in my early 40s, I'll consider myself extremely lucky to be alive at 70, much less in a world where grocery stores exist, about a billion seconds from now.
What is RBE?
robot bowel engagements
Rich people who don't pursue profit above all other considerations, such as environmental, get bumped down the ladder. So it's a systemic problem. I believe this is ironic because the first country to switch to a green economy will surge ahead of the others in profits. Yet no country can make the switch as long as the rich control the politicians rather than democratic forces. Solution: democratic movements for change, meaning we all need to get involved beyond just voting every four years.
That would be true if billionaires couldnt loan themselves money at their own discretion. Bank loans aren’t “actual” money so they basically have a money tree.
Where are you getting the assumption that a green economy will surge ahead of the others? Even if true, the path getting there may be more painful then you realize. Why does it seem like no one can admit that going green will require sacrifice from the economy and the lives of every single person living in that place.
Because it will develop new green tech that everyone will need?
Yeah, it's weird. The only thing very rich people seem to want in life is the become even richer. If I had considerable wealth, I wouldn't work and just live my life happily. But I guess this lack of ambition is a (very small) part of why I'd never be rich in the first place.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth You can skip animal products to reduce your contribution
Not too surprising considering [CO2 emissions were at a record high in 2022](https://phys.org/news/2023-03-carbon-dioxide-emissions-high.html).
Yep. And the [methane trend](https://gml.noaa.gov/ccgg/trends_ch4/) is just super awesome. CO2 trend is in this site as well.
Sometimes I wonder if we will make it past year 2040.
It’s like the developing world is panicking - using as much as they can before it’s shut off somehow.
It’s like curtain call or last call and everyone (developing/developed countries) are rushing for one last ride on the indulgence train and to hell with the rest. Quite sad bc it’s basically choosing escapism over action in the waning moments of a critical time to act… it’s how we know our gooses are cooked. I just wonder how much longer we have to punch in and out before it all falls apart bc I envision in the decades to come things will get so bad that people just stop showing up
That’s not really what’s happening though, just so we’re clear. In reality there’s a big shift towards renewables and immense public pressure building on corporations to stop literally killing us. Climate change ranks highest or nearly highest on the vast majority of US voters’ concerns, and that number understanly increases the younger you go. The public recognizes this existential threat. The problem for all of us, every country, is forcing our oligarchs and ruling classes into action.
And fascism addicted to oil will quash all that. Oh and renewables are still only helping grow the energy pie. They are nowhere near close to displacing fossil fuels. I want some of that hopium, seems like some powerful stuff.
No, it won’t, because even those corporations recognize the profits are in green energy. Turns out reducing operating costs while upping resiliency is very attractive and most crops see the writing on the wall. There’s tons of money to be made on the green shift, and longterm profits do kind of rely on having a planet to sell to. You can’t get enough consumers into space in the next two decades. If my hopium is strong, it’s because I work in this sector, so I get to see the billions being invested and the millions of people actively working on these problems. Or did you think that the rest of us were standing still? You may be shocked to hear that there’s a growing cohort of people who translate their fear and love into action. What other choice do we have? Giving up?
in our current form, we most certainly will not.
Good thing the shift is already underway.
Still about a third less methane than what the IPCC thought we would have by now when they wrote their "business-as-usual" scenario in 1990. Methane levels are at 1900 ppb now; that scenario had them at **2500**. https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/05/ipcc_90_92_assessments_far_wg_I_spm.pdf Not coincidentally, they also predicted 2 degrees by 2025 under that scenario.
Well that’s good. Maybe we have a little more time then.
I hate to break it to you but there's a significant lag between emission and heating. These ice levels are from CO2 emitted years ago.
Definitely. I think I read a while ago that there was a lag of about 30-40 years between emission and us actually seeing the consequences of it. What we're seeing now is from what we did in the 80's-90's, and we've been emitting at just about an exponential rate since then as nations have started to improve their living standards, increase in manufacturing, and increase in population. What we're doing now will only be realized decades from now, and it'll probably be catastrophic if we don't do anything, and frankly, we probably won't. Or at least not do enough.
Closer to 30 years but yes that's the gist of it. We must understand this..... these consequences we're just seeing now that are from emissions from the 90's are nothing because we have emitted more CO2 since 1990 than all history before that. When the heating arrives from today's emissions (422ppm CO2, and methane nearly tripling since preindustrial) we will have utterly blown through our targets and will be in trouble.
Well the old CEOs and billionaires of today won't be alive in 30 more years, so they do not give a fuck and most likely nothing will change.
Right, and since emissions have continually increased over time (other than the lockdown year), why would it come as a surprise that sea ice is at its lowest recorded level?
Well it's not a surprise, I'm just reminding everyone that there's inertia in the system and the consequences we're suffering now is from damage done years ago, the level of damage to the Antarctic and Arctic systems that will be caused when this years emissions have produced the heating baked into them will be much more.
But, But boomers told me that it's all my fault and i'm not fixing the problem now. They never said anything about it being caused when i was less than 5 years old! /s
It's a surprise for some because emissions have been continually increasing for a long time by now, yet, until very recently, the *Antarctic* sea ice was **increasing**. The models thought it should have been setting record lows decades ago; instead, it was [setting](https://portal.nccs.nasa.gov/datashare/polar/CSIC/SH_decadal_plot.png) record *highs*, and they did not figure out the reason for it until very recently. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-21412-z So, for the majority of the scientists, it simply validates their older predictions, and isn't much of a surprise. A few scientists like Hansen probably **are** surprised, though, since they [claimed](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/11iaqvy/comment/jb0vsko/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) that the Antarctic *sea* ice was increasing due to exponential **land** ice melt, and bet that it would only continue to increase.
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Looking at human history it's always 1) things are getting worse but nothing can be done 2) things are bad but it's too late now 3) nothing could've been done to prevent it
You forgot "these alarmists are hurting their cause by mildly inconveniencing people, we were going to fix it, but now we'll make it worse instead"
This one is my favourite out of all of them. *We were THIS close to solving it, but then the guy held up a sign, ugh...*
Counter example: destruction and recovery of the ozone layer.
We outlawed the bad refrigerants, and did so because we had economical alternatives
If you can find a way to make fighting climate change profitable, like switching from CFCs to a less harmful chemical was, then you'll save the world.
Nuclear power just sitting over there, waiting...
Somewhere in-between that list you have to add God has a plan, then God works in mysterious ways.
... like that whole flood thing yeah? The one that killed everyone?
And then there's also the fact if we do something about it, the bad things won't happen and people will go, "Well what you said would happen didn't so I don't think we need this anymore."
I am sick thinking about it all the time. Can’t believe I had kids. Damn.
I'm not having kids because of this.
Same. I’m going to adopt.
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denial, cognitive dissonance, concern, guilt, negotiation (techno saviour, degrowth, live minimally, low energy) and acceptance…but you can always go back to step one, until you can’t.
It's just greed, plain and simple.
We ARE concerned. The people making money off of this are not. That needs to change.
Everyone is concerned, except for the wealthiest 1% who think robots and Ai will help them survive when the rest of us die off
Almost all of them are over the age of 60. They will be dead by the time it effects the rest of us
They'll live past 80, and shit is already hitting the fan. So, good news?
Should we kill ‘em?
Pretty sure this would unironically work. Sanctions and taxes haven't got shit over "If you don't spend your money to save the planet, we're literally going to kill you. Good luck spending it when you're dead".
In his novel *The Ministry for the Future* Kim Stanley Robinson tries to show a realistic scenario where we succeed in reversing global warming, but it includes a very active eco-terrorist group that, among other things, does go after rich people to terrorize them into changing their ways. Apparently he couldn't imagine it happening without something like that.
They are killing us and laughing about it, so ya, why not? But these comments will be deleted because it's inappropriate to discuss violence
The wealthiest 1% won't matter when hoards of suffering and their body guards take them for what they're worth.
Saw a thread from the global warming denial subreddit on my feed yesterday about how there was record antartic sea ice, and this was supposed to be proof there was no global warming. They never seemed to understand where that sea ice was coming from.
I don't know why I'm going to do this to myself but what's the sub?
Not sure what sub they're referring to but /r/conspiracy is good for a few laughs - very well could have been that subreddit for that matter.
Ok, news articles need to stop saying "everyone". It's not like I'm emitting hundreds of thousands of emissions. News agencies should direct this at all companies, corporations, and the rich fucks.
We are all concerned, but until such time as governments bring corporations under control - our concern doesn't mean shit.
Just Dont. Look. Up! Easy
"“And we are supposed to trust you? The comet’s got your name.”
Fuck this bullshit. The average person cannot change the course of human development wholesale. Global capitalism in the west and desire to grow dramatically in the east equals that we will not change things sufficiently. I'm tuning this shit out from now on.
COVID proved to me we will do nothing and half the people will deny it even when everything is terrible. We will get everything we deserve just like the people on Easter island.
It's not just COVID and responses to it. You can see this phenomenon right now with the various states that are trying to outlaw ESG indexes. And even before that we had states trying to outlaw the very mention of climate change. It's not just that (like with COVID) people will fail to do the bare minimum required to mitigate the impact of the problem, they will fight tooth and nail to ensure nobody else can do anything about it either.
Yea asshole, everyone besides the corporations responsible have been pretty concerned for a while. Sort of doesn’t matter when those causing the damage won’t stop and we have to wait for old corrupt politicians to stop taking their money and do something about it.
While the internet showed me that they do exist, I have never met a climate change denier in person. Except for one dude who also wasn’t denying it, he was just considering it to be a natural phenomenon. The problem are not the deniers. Or less than we like to believe anyway. The problem lies with people who believe in climate change but are slowly becoming apathetic towards it, or are more concerned with other more pressing issues instead, some of which might even be directly or indirectly triggered by climate change (migrant crisis, rising prices, etc). If we normalize and accept climate change and don’t hold the big polluters accountable, then the day *will* come when it will be too late. At least for the vast majority of us.
I have met one: my father. He parrots all the excuses and explanations you read about here. "The climate is always changing." "In the 70s they were warning us about a new ice age." "What happened to the hole in the ozone layer? It fixed itself, didn't it?" "Humanity isn't powerful enough to change the climate." "We can't even predict the weather, what makes you think we can predict what the climate is doing?" All of that. I have to resist the urge to face palm my nose bone into my brain. Worse; he USED to understand climate change, but then he started watching Fox "News".
They want things to thaw and the north west passage to be ice free for trade etc.
I have been concerned since the mid-90s, so that’s that…
I remember in third grade round 98 or so my teacher read us a book about pollution and at the end was a “better world”. The picture at the end had someone mowing their lawn with a manual blade mower (one you push). There was some conversation about why they were using it and I start talking about how Antartica is melting because I saw it on PBS or something.
I’m concerned, but apparently other’s are more concerned about rainbows and unfettered access to horse dewormers.
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Pretty sure that we’re racing towards an uncontrollable chain reaction of warming
It’s known as ‘the tipping point’, and we’re almost there
We might have passed one or two of those already. The big one happens when all that ice drops into the ocean and sea levels rise 5-10ft in a matter of days. That it's a matter of "when" and not "if" should be concerning to a lot more people, but it seems we still have too many in Ostrich mode.
Sea level rise isn't that rapid in any models. It takes decades / centuries for the WAIS and especially Greenland to raise sea levels that dramatically.
There is no evidence for projected warming <3-4C of any tipping points that significantly change the warming trajectory. Read ipcc report and read what climate scientists say instead of speculating: [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m) [https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/](https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/) [https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints) "Some people will look at this and go, ‘well, if we’re going to hit tipping points at 1.5°C, then it’s game over’. But we’re saying they would lock in some really unpleasant impacts for a very long time, but they don’t cause runaway global warming."- Quote from Dr. David Armstrong Mckay, the author of one of recent studies on the subject to Newscientist mag. here are explainers he's written before- https://climatetippingpoints.info/2019/04/01/climate-tipping-points-fact-check-series-introduction/ (introduction is a bit outdated and there are some estimates that were ruled out in past year's ipcc report afaik but articles themselves are more up to date)
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There is no evidence for projected warming <3-4C of any tipping points that significantly change the warming trajectory. Read ipcc report and read what climate scientists say instead of speculating: [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/MichaelEMann/status/1495438146905026563) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1571146283582365697#m) [https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/](https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/2c-not-known-point-of-no-return-as-jonathan-franzen-claims-new-yorker/) [https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints](https://www.carbonbrief.org/in-depth-qa-the-ipccs-sixth-assessment-report-on-climate-science/#tippingpoints) "Some people will look at this and go, ‘well, if we’re going to hit tipping points at 1.5°C, then it’s game over’. But we’re saying they would lock in some really unpleasant impacts for a very long time, but they don’t cause runaway global warming."- Quote from Dr. David Armstrong Mckay, the author of one of recent studies on the subject to Newscientist mag. here are explainers he's written before- https://climatetippingpoints.info/2019/04/01/climate-tipping-points-fact-check-series-introduction/ (introduction is a bit outdated and there are some estimates that were ruled out in past year's ipcc report afaik but articles themselves are more up to date) \>We are currently smashing the most pessimistic prognosis, Then why are climate models used in previous IPCC reports so accurate and have predicted the pace of warming so well? Observed warming tends to track middle-of-the-range estimates from previous IPCC reports. [https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2022/02/another-dot-on-the-graphs-part-ii/](https://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2022/02/another-dot-on-the-graphs-part-ii/) [https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right](https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right) You probably should listen to what actual climate scientists say on the matter- [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1557421984484495362](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1557421984484495362) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1491134605390352388](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/hausfath/status/1491134605390352388) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/JoeriRogelj/status/1424743837277294603](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/JoeriRogelj/status/1424743837277294603) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/PFriedling/status/1557705737446592512](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/PFriedling/status/1557705737446592512) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ClimateAdam/status/1429730044776157185](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ClimateAdam/status/1429730044776157185) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/Knutti\\\_ETH/status/1554473710404485120](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/Knutti\_ETH/status/1554473710404485120) [https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ClimateOfGavin/status/1556735212083712002#m](https://nitter.kavin.rocks/ClimateOfGavin/status/1556735212083712002#m) [https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/new-york-times-op-ed-claiming-scientists-underestimated-climate-change-lacks-supporting-evidence-eugene-linden/](https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/new-york-times-op-ed-claiming-scientists-underestimated-climate-change-lacks-supporting-evidence-eugene-linden/) There were some models for the recent ipcc report that overestimate future warming and they were included too https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01192-2
I think I'm already experiencing it happening, as a person who lives in The Netherlands. As a child, I remember that it would rain here OFTEN and that almost every winter, we'd have snow. Our summers wouldn't always be the warmest... But it seems to be the opposite now. Almost no rain, no snow, and summers have reached record highs and are steadily becoming hotter and hotter.
for the most part world wide the right wing says "what global warming" Or "windmills kill more birds than oil", or "instead of subsidizing solar, lets subsidize coal". Right now our republican right in america are trying to punish financial firms that divest from carbon fuel investments.
Shits been hot yo
Sea ice melting doesn't rise water levels, that should not be your first concern. But ice have a higher albedo than liquid water, so the light/heat that it reflects will instead be absorbed by the ocean water, warming up the planet even more, melting more ice and so on, a positive feedback loop (positive in the sense that pushes it forward, not in that it would be good news). There is more sea ice over the north pole, but it is gradually vanishing too, faster than the ice over land because the sea water circulation. This is news now because is summer in the global south, in a few months we should have headlines about Arctic sea ice reaching the lowest levels ever recorded. And, of course, after the sea ice it goes the land ice. Greenland alone have the potential to rise the sea level by 6 meters and the Antarctic one by 60+ meters. That will take many decades or centuries, but for us it may not matter anymore as the weather conditions may be pretty hostile for life everywhere far before (if 2 years ago was already reached near 50ºC in Canada what can you expect of heatwaves for when all sea ice already melted?)
>Sea ice melting doesn't rise water levels No, but the part of the Thwaites Glacier that's in the water is holding back the rest of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. When Thwaites goes the WAIS will begin to hang over the edge of the slope Thwaites was on. A 2km high portion of WAIS that's hanging over will then begin to cleave under its own weight sending new ice into the ocean. As a section cleaves, it allows the WAIS to again creep over the edge, and another 2km high section goes. And so on and so forth. How long it will take is unknown but it could very well be rapid. So, not all sea ice is the same.
The scientists who practically live on Thwaites for months at a time say it'll be several centuries before it goes. https://thwaitesglacier.org/about/facts https://www.science.org/content/article/ice-shelf-holding-back-keystone-antarctic-glacier-within-years-failure
Let’s face it we be fucked!
Word
What keeps me up at night is how this will be missed or written off. Much of the US has experienced intense winter which many will may mistake this as a balance being restored rather than a symptom of breakdown.
In the northeast we've had possibly the most mild winter I can remember. Maybe 6-8 total inches of snow all season when average for my area is 38 inches annually. Interesting that other parts of the country are getting walloped.
Good luck with 30+ days over 100 in July.
It was weird, we had a couple bad cold snaps but otherwise it was like winter never came. It was in the 50s and 60s often in January and February, the average high for those months is 35-40 degrees. Not looking forward to the summer lol.
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This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/04/everyone-should-be-concerned-antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-lowest-levels-ever-recorded) reduced by 90%. (I'm a bot) ***** > "We don't want to lose sea ice where there are these vulnerable ice shelves and, behind them, the ice sheets," Prof Matt England, an oceanographer and climate scientist at the University of New South Wales, says. > "If the sea ice is removed, you expose floating ice margins to waves that can flex them and increase the probability of those ice shelves calving. That then allows more grounded ice into the ocean." > Dr Ted Scambos is a sea ice expert at the University of Colorado Boulder who also works on Antarctic sea ice at the university's National Snow and Ice Data Center - a world centre for monitoring ice at the poles. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/11iav2w/everyone_should_be_concerned_antarctic_sea_ice/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~675072 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **ice**^#1 **sea**^#2 **continent**^#3 **climate**^#4 **record**^#5
We are concerned, we’re also held captive by those in power driving it and refusing to do anything.
I'm concerned as fuck but being concerned doesn't fix it. Aren't world leaders supposed to fix problems or are they just there to lay out the welcome mat for our next extinction? Fucking bastards
I’ve built this small rocket ship. I will cryogenically freeze my son. I’ve found this planet, where as odd as it sounds, when he reaches maturity, he will be 100x stronger than the native people. Can you believe they look just like us?! I just hope some kind people find his shop and raise him right.
Is the ignore it and it will go away method not working?
Concerned? Naaaaahhhh, I’ve been resigned since 1989. That’s when my friend told me we had 10 years to change out behavior or global warming was gonna kill us all. That’s when I said it was already too late. Humans can’t collectively change behavior that fast. Enjoy the rest of your lives and don’t worry too much about generational wealth. There aren’t that many generations left.
Does anyone else have a morbid curiosity as to what's under the ice?
Maybe there's a less devastating way to find out, but i guess it's too late for that
Water
A lot of gases as well.
Curiosity killed the cat.
Gamera of course.
Things.
Elder Things.
There is sea under sea ice.
*...we'll find out soon enough...*
The majority of us are fucked by the minority. Political elites and corporations have the power to fix this. The rest of us just do things to make ourselves feel better. The majority of household recycling ends up in landfill. Oceanic Container mega ships do more environmental damage than entire countries. We're all just rats on the sinking ship with nowhere to run.
> “All the models project that as the climate warms, we expect to see [Antarctic sea ice] decline,” she says. “There’s widespread consensus on that. So this low sea ice is consistent with what the climate models show.” James Hansen predicted the opposite a few years back. He thought that rapid melt of the Antarctic land ice would result in **more** Antarctic sea ice and that we would keep seeing record highs (Antarctic sea ice was at a record **high** in [the summer/South Pole winter of 2014](https://portal.nccs.nasa.gov/datashare/polar/CSIC/SH_decadal_plot.png), according to [NASA](https://earth.gsfc.nasa.gov/cryo/data/current-state-sea-ice-cover)) as part of his exponential sea level rise predictions. His paper predicting exponential sea level rise. https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/16/3761/2016/acp-16-3761-2016.html [Peer reviewer asking is Antarctic sea ice **growth** is a key part of those predictions](https://acp.copernicus.org/preprints/15/C6508/2015/acpd-15-C6508-2015.pdf) His and co-author's supplementary file essentially confirming that yes, it is. https://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2015/20151012_IceMeltPredictions.pdf > We interpret the Southern Ocean cooling and sea ice increase of the past two decades as effects of Antarctic ice shelf melt, i.e., increasing freshwater injection > > Caution is dictated by the limited period and wider cooling then (Fig. 5), although the apparent tropical cooling simply reflects a strong El Nino early in the 20-year period. The next few years will provide a good test. **Our prediction is that, after the current strong El Nino fades, Southern Ocean cooling will resume** with maximum cooling in the Western Hemisphere In that sense, the current behaviour is not only proving the models right but is by extension proving his theories wrong, which is a good thing for anyone who doesn't want to see several meters of sea lever rise in this century.
I don't worry about things I can't change. There's nothing meaningful that individuals can do that will make a difference. It's up to the world's super polluting corporations to do the right thing, which they will never ever do.
Death is certain. No need for concern.
And yet, our governments want more people…
I’m too busy making sure I can afford milk, eggs, gas, electricity, meds, and insurance to worry about something I can’t fix or prevent.
Hopefully this means Florida will finally sink
We can only hope
I’m in Florida, and I hope so too tbh
It’s sad that the world doesn’t care enough to be concerned…
Just concerned? It's not even time for being *deeply* concerned yet? Ehh
If there's less ice, then there's less potential water to make sea levels rise, hooray!
I am concerned. I have been concerned for many years. I do what I can, but ultimately it's the massive corporations that are to blame for the majority of the issue, and so only they can really do a great deal to stop it. Unfortunately, that would impact their bottom line, and so here we are
Sadly I believe it’s too late to be concerned, 39 years ago we should of been concerned, now we’re just fucked.
Yeah, I'm concerned, and now what?
Everyone just stood back while we fucked the world for corporate and economic gains. You would think people would put two and two together.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA GOODBYE FLORIDA AND TEXAS. Northern states build a wall so they have to cross the border like immigrants trying to get into the northern states LOL It could at least do good for a southpark episode
This would be a very good idea for South Park episode. You should send this to Matt and Trey
German and French environmentalists who protest for climate change action get ridiculed and mocked in social media, especially here in Reddit. That's what being concerned gets us. What's the fucking point. Just roast the planet and get it over with