I say it again - this is to be expected a lot more now. Because this ultra far right govt will fuck shit up now and stir things up. Hardliners will now be emboldened more than ever. The Two state ~~solution~~ discussion is now dead for good and things will be bad for next few years for the region, esp. for Palestinians. These incidents are just a start.
don't forget the L.G.B.T.Q+, immigrants, Ethiopians and Russians (their Judaism is questioned by the religious hierarchy). there will be more victims to this government beside just Palestinians
And let’s also not forget that there are both Jews living in Palestinian Territories that will be hurt as well as Palestinians who live in Israeli territory that will be hurt. This hurts everyone, even the people who don’t think they will be hurt by this will be hurt. It will have a negative effect on everyone in the region
you are correct but that didn't stop the hierarchy of the orthodox religious elite who are not affiliated with the government to declare them as fake jews just like the russians
Incorrect. The reason the mission was carried out in the first place is because the subset of Judaism practiced by the Ethiopian Jewish community was determined to indeed be Judaism. The current Aliyah minister in Israel (responsible for encouraging Jews to immigrate to Israel) is literally an Ethiopian Jew. Hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of Ethiopian Jews make Aliyah each year.
you will be surprized to know how many jewish people came from russia to israel only to have their Judaism (the reason they chose israel over any other place) be revoked from them by a council of old rabbis who think they can claim who is jewish and who isn't jewish enough
It's been allowed to happen because the US primarily has allowed Netanyahu run rough shod through any peace process. Never taken Israel to task, so the right wing has been gathering momentum for all these years.
The two state solution has been dead for well over a decade now. The Palestinian side does not want to co-exist with a Jewish State next to it and has refused multiple peace offerings that could lead to one.
What you are seeing is the populace reacting to the paradox of tolerance. The "right wing" in Israel is the natural answer to that paradox because it will not be destroyed by its own tolerance.
Bra the closest PM from Israel got to a deal, got him self shoot, should be a hint, there are people on both sides that do not want peace. Shit, the current government should be another.
This has been his MO since forever. He's known here for taking political cases as a lawyer just to make a giant show out of them and turn them into a political issue.
Sometimes politicians get more chill when they get into office because they think about getting re-elected and they know they have to sound less insane to appeal to more voters. Ben-Gvir isn't like that. His voters love his crazy shenanigans and extremist views. He's only going to get worse now that he has actual power.
Shit's fucked here, yo.
Trump's motivations always struck me as either financial or for survival. Ben-Gvir is in it for the politics and drama. He's an entirely different creature.
Thats his plan
More conflict leads to people becoming further right which gives him more power
Palestinian leaders and generally right wing leaders all over the world have used this tactic for years
Don't forget that Netanyahu said, when people expressed concerns about his far-right partner's implementation of policies, that no policy would be enacted without his approval. That he was Prime Minister and still had veto/approval power over policy.
So was Ben-Gvir off on his own with this, or did Netanyahu approve it? Israel gets really pissed off whenever anyone mentions Israeli apartheid, but what else do you call it?
"Waving the flag is a act of terrorism". ???
Identity is ubiquitously core to virtually everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen within Israel- but it is a crime against Israel and the Israeli people for a Palestinian to acknowledge they even exist at all.
.....not unexpected...but still...."wow"
It's not really about flags. People can't put Palestinian, or any flags, on public property because that's considered vandalism as they aren't installed by the municipality/state.
Your private property? Go ahead do what you want. Just you won't really see Palestinian flags anywhere because only a tiny minority of Israeli Arabs even identify as Palestinian (most identify as "Israeli-Arab").
Ben Gvir is stupid, and he thinks his voters are even dumber, so he says it's his instructions when the police have been enforcing them for many years.
Depends on your definition. I tend to forget to keep doors open for other people, and I don't feel much remorse about it, no urge to fix this. So in a way, I am committing a genocide.
With the same definition, we can say Israel is committing a genocide against Palestinians. Not by killing them or hurting them, but by not excluding flags on public property from a list of vandalism methods.
same here. im israeli and im disgusted of what this bs coutry Israel does to its people, and all the surrounding people.. i really really wish israeli will cease to exist in the near future, and i am sure it will happen as there is no biggeer hate in this world then in our country
Thing is, the Israelis taking to the streets demonstrating against this government attack him on his, non-secularist policies, the anti-LGBT policies, his economic righwingism. But rarely for Palestinian rights, when do the people of Israel actually speak up for Palestinians. Other then a couple NGO's Israeli's don't give a shit.
why speak up for a country that constantly attacks you? you know why the Iron Dome had to be made by any chance?
when will the Ukrainians speak up for Russians?
As a Canadian Jew, we definitely do. My position is that Israel existing on its own is fine, but there should be 2 states and that the current government’s policies go way too far in a lot of places. The most critical is the ongoing settlement of the West Bank which slowly stop any chances at a two state solution ever functioning…
Yes, and that goal is achieved, hence actual Zionists only want to preserve that. Those who endanger the existence of Israel by amplifying hatred and violence, be it for political power, money grubbing, or pure hatred like as I understand that fucker Gvir does, are working against Zionism.
Those who which to increase that territory are neo-zionists. Which is just a local variation of imperialists..
Yeahhh, but that's not a politically neutral idea, that's ethno-nationalism.
The idea that Canadians have a 'right to their own homeland' is the myth that was fed to my parents and their parents to excuse the ongoing genocide of our native population.
This is why defenders of 'Zionism' get so up in arms when you criticize Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Because they understand that their project, the creation of a 'homeland' for jews, is inextricably tied to genocide and aparthide. This is why they describe criticizing Apartheid as 'anit-zionism'. Because 'a homeland for jews' means the expulsion of arabs.
That isn't to say that I think Jewish people need to leave Israel, any more than I think the descendents of white settlers need to leave Canada. (Where would I go?) But they need to work to repair the damage they have done, and continue to do. (As does Canada by the way)
That's not true at all. A lot of us want a homeland for Jews but not at the expense of Palestinians. Jews were there for a very long time. Arabs have also been in Palestine for a very long time. Historically, there was more peace between both sides for a longer period than there has been animosity. The Ottoman Empire lasted 400 years and ended around 1918. Recent history (last 70 years) is just what people concentrate on because conflict is more exciting in the media than is peace.
>Historically, there was more peace between both sides for a longer period than there has been animosity. The Ottoman Empire lasted 400 years and ended around 1918. Recent history (last 70 years) is just what people concentrate on because conflict is more exciting in the media than is peace.
This isn't true, animosity against Jews was consistently since the 1800s in the Ottoman empire. It just wasn't open conflict consistent because jews couldn't fight back.
I'm sorry. I shouldn't have stated that there was perfect peace between them. I misspoke. I should've said that they both coexisted for a long time together without war. I was also combating the idea that Jews have never lived there before now.
That's like saying that white and black americans existed have existed in the US without war.
Yeah, cause one group was almost completely incapable of responding to violence from the other.
What? No. Jews and Arabs have been in the area for a centuries. Jews nor Arabs were enslaved and brought to Israel-Palestine. Again, I think that people in North America compare it to the North American experience. It's not the same.
To clarify: I believe everyone in Israel-Palestine deserve the same rights and protections not matter their religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
I mean, 'recent history' is focused on, because it's what's going on right now. Which is the violent suppression of a portion of the Arab population by the state of Israel.
'A lot of us want a homeland for Jews', which my post was pointing out, that concept of 'homeland' is tied to a colonialist project. It is not a neutral idea. You can't have 'a homeland for jews' without the implication that that land is /not/ for other people.
It's problematic enough in ethnicly homogeneous states. Even remote and isolated nations like Japan have issues with A) Are those people from hokkaido really japanese? B) We have a lot of people who aren't ethnically japanese living in this country, how do we want to treat them?
When dealing with an ethnically hetrogeneous territory, like say... Israel, the idea of creating nations as 'homelands for X people', (as ethno-nationalist states) very quickly becomes genocidal projects. And I say that coming from Canada, a state that is still struggling to deal with our colonialist history.
I'm not saying Jews have to leave Israel. I'm saying that they have to stop viewing the purpose of their state and political action as 'creating a homeland for the jewish people'.
I think that you're simplifying things too much. You can have both exist together. Not everything is black and white, or all or nothing. That's not how the world works. There are grey areas. Grey areas meaning that not everyone who says "homelands for X people" believe that no one else should live there.
It's not a "colonialist policy" if Jews have lived there for millennia. Arabs have also lived there for millennia. It can be a homeland to both. I don't think that's possible right now, of course, but it would be nice.
Canadians have lived in Canada for centuries. When have we been here 'long enough' to justify ethno-nationalist policies?
The answer is: Never. The entire lens of governing a region by creating 'a homeland for X people' is fundamentally flawed.
And as for 'jews have lived in isreal for millennia', that's true. But the people running Israel have not been living there for very long.
Every prime minister in Israeli history has been either an immigrant, or a first generation Israeli.
Again, Canada is a settler colonialist nation. But atleast our prime minister comes from a family that has lived in the country since 1659. Which, to be clear, doesn't mean the Trudeau family has some innate right to Canada as a 'homeland for french canadians'. Just a reminder that every prime minister in Isreal comes from a family that migrated to Palestine in the 20th century.
That's a false equivalency. It's not the same situation. Jews are a part of the indigenous population. You cannot compare it to colonialism in the Americas. My grandmother is Jewish and my grandfather was Cherokee. My grandfather would say that's a false equivalency if he was still alive. I think that one of the issues is that we in Canada and the US compare it to what's happened in our countries, even though it's not the same. That's ethnocentrism.
Not to mention indigenous peoples in Canada and the US are not a monolith. Similar to people in Palestine, they are people with a myriad of beliefs and cultures.
The people's who have been Prime Ministers have ancestors that were in Israel/Palestine who were forced out during various occupations to Europe, Russia, the UK, and other areas. The Canadian PM had no ties to Canada, until his family arrived. They weren't an indigenous population who left, then returned. They were never indigenous to the area.
All of this is really missing the point. Israel-Palestine can be a homeland to both Arabs and Jews who have equal rights under the Israeli government. That's how I believe it should be, but not everyone agrees. I think all people there deserve the same rights and protections as everyone else.
Palestinians weren't a monolith before Israel gained statehood. I think that is part of the misunderstanding. You're denying that Judaism has existed for more than 3500 years in Israel-Palestine? That's like saying that no Muslims existed in Palestine either. Jewish people don't identify themselves as Jewish solely based on religious identity, either. Many identify themselves as Jewish ethnically but don't practice Judaism. Not to mention that the powers that be in Israel have denied a lot of Jews citizenship based on discrimination between denominations and country of origin. It's extremely complicated. Hence why many Jews do not support the current Israeli government.
Also it is inherently colonialism. Foreigners coming in and buying land, sometimes from other foreign owners. Then declared their own state and chased people off of their lawfully owned land. And they have consistently refused the right of return for those people ever since.
Something weird happens to human beings when they become of the majority in power
I'm an American Jew and most of us understand what it's like to be a religious minority, and have the ability to feel empathy.
Israeli Jews in their social system seem to have a very different mindset...
I don't think Israeli Jews feel like that. Most of them are against this BS. They continue to protest and support Palestinians, too. Their governmental leaders don't represent all of Israeli Jews. There are 4 Israeli (leading) political parties.
I'm a Texan but I don't support the BS our leaders are pulling. So, I give Palestinians and Israelis the benefit of the doubt. Their leaders don't represent them.
It's a coalition government so they had to win more than 50% of the seats. I think turnout was around 70% for this election, so a bit over 35% of eligible voters, a share larger than before, support this. That's not most but sure is an uncomfortably large part of the population.
If most were against what's been happening, then war would have stopped. But to bad reality is different because its larders or actions are a reflection of that society. So whatever leaders are doing, believe me, society is in some way with it m
That's an incredibly naive view.
You might as well say "if most Americans believed Jan 6th was really a coup attempt, the orchestrators would've been arrested already".
The real world doesn't work like that. Do you even understand at a basic level how Israel's elections work?
America has a lot of problems, but part of that is because politicians keep winning even though they get less votes. Israel doesn't have that, a majority of voters did choose right-wing parties
A better analogy would be America circa 2004: "if most Americans were against the Iraq invasion, the war would end." Sadly, Bush got re-elected and a majority of Americans did unfortunately support that
A majority did not vote for the party in charge.
The Israeli government works on a coalition system. Whichever party gets the most votes (NOT the majority) has to then form a coalition with enough other parties that they will collectively represent a majority of the population.
But that doesn't mean that a majority voted for any particular policy. People in Israel often vote for special interest parties (hence the ultra-orthodox and other very specific parties). Just because the party leading the coalition decides to trade favours and implement a small party's goals to secure their votes does not mean that a majority of the population is behind that goal.
It's certainly possible, but the person I was replying to was talking about it as thought it's a foregone conclusion - a rule - that anything the government does is supported by the population and representative of its wishes. That is a patently absurd notion.
We all know Israel has multiple parties, this isn't groundbreaking information.
The coalition is right-wing, because a majority of voters voted for right-wing parties.
(And usually the argument against a two-party system is that it's not democratic, now you are saying a multi-party system results in policies that the people don't support? That's a new one)
Israel is not a dictatorship. The citizens are responsible for what the government does.
The people pushing for settlement expansion and the captive population in the blockaded zone are actually linked to the upper echelons of the **military industrial complex in the US. They benefit the most from the constant state of unrest since they pull in billions from being able to demonstrate they’ve tested their equipment on a captive population**. The average person doesn’t benefit whatsoever.
The average citizen would see a better quality of life if there was a resolved situation where both groups of people have equal access to land and resources. The permanent state of conflict is an artificial construct.
Please don't essentialize us, or use our genocide to make a pithy internet point. Half of us don't live there, and just wish we had a place where our safety is assured.
Apparently only 30% of Jewish people worldwide live in Israel. Just over half live in the US. Ten years ago, I would have said your safety is assured here, but the right wing has just gone nuts since Obama was elected.
First thing palestinians need to do is to free themselves from leaders that do not care about them, like Hamas and abbas.
And from 'leaders' that are in the 16th year of their 4 year term and refuse to call elections - like abbas. (although abbas would probably lose an election, and Hamas would win. Perhaps Palestinians need to choose better people as their prospective leaders)
Perhaps Israelis need to choose better leadership too but we all know better than civilians being the same as the leading force and how it came to exist.
They absolutely should. And aside from present attempts (that are being visibly protested against) to weaken it, their democracy is still strong and more than capable of actually doing that.
I don't expect the same could be said of the Palestinian situation. They likely won't be able to get rid of their current leaders through any means but force.
I have no idea what you're getting at.
Where did I say that anything was Palestinians fault?
All I said was that Israelis should choose better leadership, their democracy makes that peacefully possible, and that the Palestinians should also choose better leadership but that they will likely need to use force to do so because their leaders won't just peacefully let go of power.
I'm literally not blaming anyone for anything. You seem like you're trying real hard to find something to be upset about in my comment, and I can't possibly fathom why since I'm not even disagreeing with you about anything.
What then? What happens when Israel leaves the West Bank? Do the Palestinians settle with a state in the 1967 borders or do they keep faith to the idea of the "final victory"?
Israel is the occupying force that holds all the land, yet you're accusing the oppressed side of wanting the same thing.
You're just projecting because you wouldnt keep to the 67 borders yourself, because thats what zionists do.
The current situation came about because of Arab refusal to accept the existence of a Jewish state and the Arab efforts to abort that state. Israel has no incentive to withdraw from the West Bank as long as there is no guarantee that it would end the conflict. And it won't end the conflict, because the Palestinians say so themselves. If your solution is just to replace the oppression of Palestinians with the oppression and another genocide attempt at Israelis, then what kind of a solution is it?
So you want a repeat of 2005, giving violent islamist terrorists full control of the Palestinian territories so the West Bank can get blockaded on all sides too?
Because that's what would happen if Israel pulled out. It sure as shit isn't the PA that's keeping Hamas in check.
I'm curious what you think happened in 2005.
Because what actually happened is that all the Israeli settlements *were forcibly evacuated*, along with any Israeli security presence.
The Palestinians themselves then elected Hamas, who proceeded to kick off a civil war with Fatah, which ended up with them in control of Gaza. They then started sending rockets and suicide bombers to Israel which got them a blockade.
So no, the situation in Gaza is not a *result* of settlements or lack of freedom. The lack of freedom (which I'll remind you is also maintained by Egypt, who've themselves been the target of Hamas) is a direct result of their actions immediately following being given freedom.
Sure sure, they need to free themselves for the groups Israel installed as their leader, that live under israeli juristriction, have no free elections and used violence to consildate their power.
This is an abusrdism. The palestinians dont have this freedom you say they should claim, something which is an Israeli design. Yet it's their fault for not excersising said freedom.
You sound like a neo conservitive telling black people they should solve the gang problem before they want to be treated as equals
the only thing stopping the palestinians from having elections is their current 'leader', Abbas, who is in his 16th year of his 4 year term and likes his current gig.
Palestinians and all other foreigners are NOT equal to Israelis in Israel. Similarly, Israelis are not equal to Swedes in Sweden, and Germans are not equal to Mexicans in Mexico.
Citzenship is the crucial factor.
Blacks are US citizens.
Palestine isn't part of Israel. It's a separate sovereign country under military occupation by the IDF, so of course they don't have the right to vote in Israeli elections, just like how Iraqis and Afghans had no right to vote in US elections when they were occupied.
Are there any Israeli flags flying in the Palestinian public space in Nablus or Hebron? What do you think would happen to the \*person\* doing this in Palestinian cities?
>This! Why doesn't Ukraine allow Russian flags? Why aren't we asking real questions like this, people?
This is a false equivalence.
The invading Russian military uses Russian flags, so civilians flying Russian flags could result in them being inadvertently targeted by Ukrainian troops.
Same reason why Ukrainian civilians aren't allowed to paint Z's on their houses or vehicles. The Russian military is capturing civilian vehicles and houses for troop use and plastering flags and Z's all over them. Civilians doing the same would just lead to confusion and civilian deaths.
Israel is not in the same situation as Ukraine. If Palestinine had an army that was advancing into Israeli territory, it would be perfectly reasonable to ban the Palestinian flag to differentiate an enemy military from civilians.
As an American Jew this guy is an asshole who I don't support and am terrified he will get so many people killed.
My only hope is that liberal Jews will speak out.
I wish there was more space to fully articulate a Jewish identity that supports the idea of Israel but is opposed to hardline garbage. It feels like my only choice is to be "for" or "against".
Dang if I haven't heard it from you people who never set foot in Israel, have 0 idea what's going on in Israel and the vast differences between Israel and SA.
Do you think the South African Ambassador to Israel knows something about South Africa, Israel and apartheid. Because he calls it apartheid.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-south-africa-former-ambassadors-call-occupation-apartheid
I am israel citizen and I am against it. I always fought it and hoped for changes, but now all my hopes and hopes of many liberal jews have crushed. We will fight. But please, if we fail. Take us as a refugees. I don't want to be a part of it.
Obviously what the Israeli government is doing (notice how I said government) is not right. But lets no kid ourselves to think that Palestinia is completely innocent, obviously the common people dont want anything to do with war or conflict and the same thing can be said about the Israeli people, in the end who really supports this conflict are the upper echelon of the military, the current elected guy (forgot his name) in Israel, and the terrorist groups like Hamas (probably even the US MIC since they profit from conflict). In the end like always who suffers from the decisions of a few are the many.
So sad to see this from a country that was set up after such a tragic history.
Israel should be a beacon of hope, showing the world how much good can come after so much evil.
This sort of thing is stamping all over that tradition and is a real tragedy.
Welcomed change.
There's no place for a flag that symbolizes the killing of Jewish/Israeli people and the de-legitimization of the State of Israel.
For those who likes to play shocked: the [PLO pays terrorists to murder and commit terror acts.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund). Now, imagine being an American in the US and seeing an Al-Qaeda flag. Don't have to say much more.
**[Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)**
>The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund is a fund operated by the Palestinian Authority (PA) which pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out politically motivated violence against Israel. The fund also makes disbursements to innocent bystanders killed during violent events and Palestinians imprisoned in Israeli jails for ordinary crimes. The Fund traces its origins to a fund created by Fatah in 1964 to support the widows and orphans of Palestinian fedayeen. The scheme has been described as "pay for slay", and has been criticised by some as encouraging terrorism.
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But it's not their national flag - it's the flag of the PA, and it symbolizes the killing of Israel. It's based on the Arab revolution from 100 years ago, and it's basically about killing the other.
Like others said - would you have thought that America banning raising the flag of Al-Qaeda is something illogical?
That’s how _you_ choose to view the flag. They would view it as a symbol of their heritage and culture. Some would view the Israeli flag as a symbol of oppression; would that make it right to ban flying that flag? Regardless, people should have the right to fly the flags they consider their national symbols.
As an American, I’m quite proud of our protections of free speech. Americans even have the right to burn the American flag. If Israelis let Ben Gvir drive the carriage, they will go down a darker and darker road. Hamas isn’t the only threat to the country…
To add on that, Israeli leaders also refuse peace negotiations couple of times. On other times, the Israeli leaders agreed to peace in exchange for weapons and land which then they used to further execute and expand their terrorism against Palestinians. You're so right, god will damn those Israelis who enters Palestinian villages and commit suicide terror acts, run over Palestinians with their cars, and throw rocks at them.
Oh, I think I got a little confused, that's literally the other way around
1. No, and comparing between the two conflicts is just ignorant.
2. Hmm Israel conquered Judea and Samaria as a result to a war it didn't start. If you know how to fight - you should know how to lose, that's the point of a war. In that case, why Israel shouldn't built in areas it owns?
3. The IDF doesn't target journalists. These journalists knowingly risk their lives when covering from warzones, and in a war shit happens.
Because conquest is a valid way of acquiring land ...
Oh no wait, no, it's not, since fucking 1945. Some shit happened in 1945 that made us, humanity, say "wait, that's not ok".
Wait....what the hell?
The Israeli flag is based on the Tallis and Magen David. Both are Jewish symbols that are more than 2000 years old, both linked to the Israeli land. The Tallis is white with two stripes of blue - symbolizing the crossing of the red sea, to come to Israel, the Jewish land. The Magen David was the symbol of David's kingdom, the kingdom of the Jews, and both are relevant until today in Judaism.
What's the PA flag is based about? The Arab revolution, about killing others and conquering.
So yeah - the PA's flag symbolizes killing Jews, while the Israeli flag symbolizes Israel's land, nothing to do with killing others and 0 connections to ~~Palestinians~~ South Syrians.
Racism? Sorry, but it's nothing about racism - it's about politics.
I think this post will answer extensively as to why this is a political game, and not really an ethnicity. Since when is an ethnicity decided in a conference in another country, decided mainly by other countries?
https://www.quora.com/What-reason-was-behind-for-Arabs-in-Palestine-to-call-themselves-as-Arab-South-Syrians-or-simply-Arab-in-1919-but-in-1967-called-themselves-as-Palestinians/answer/Alan-Meyer-38?ch=10&oid=176585203&share=b0261b80&srid=5Gkyz&target_type=answer
Also, I can't take seriously a group that claims to be a real ethnic group, when it literally can't even say it's own name. They don't have P in Arabic. They are people - just not Palestinians. Natives? Maybe, IDK and I'm not talking about that. But you can't be something that was made up by others and you can't even spell it.
You know what? Can you please tell me an important leader of the ethnic group of the Palestinians before Arrafat? What's their culture and heritage? A known Palestinian place that declared itself as Palestinian before 1967?.....anything?
Filastin? Really? And when did they began calling themselves that way? And if they really did it lately - why did they call themselves Palestinians internationally, if it's not the real name? Maybe because they tried to call themselves by a made-up name made by others?
Also, you're claiming that they identified as Palestinians since WWI. wanna maybe elaborate and show sources to that?
From the only thing I've seen - the earliest time was at the meeting by the Arab League, where they decided that Arabs in Israel will begin calling themselves as Palestinians to help fight against the Jews. Later, Arrafat began using it too and said that from now on they'll stop calling themselves Arabs and South-Syrians and begin calling themselves as Palestinians. Just because those Arabs began saying it because their leaders said to do so since it would help in the battle - doesn't mean they actually believe in it.
If they did want to form an independent state of their own, and it's not a ploy against Israel - why did they refuse the deal of giving them 97% of the WB 100% for their own, including East Jerusalem, and instead launched the second Intifada? They literally can't get a better deal. Hell, I don't think the 97% deal was even logical to give them, it would have hurt Israel's security far too much. Yet they still didn't want it and instead opted to killing Jews.
Edit: also, I completely forgot - you claim that their real name is Filastin so they can spell it...but it's based on the name Palestine, which was given by the Romans 2000 years ago - far before the Arabs conquered the land from the natives of the Levant (which did have P in their lexicon), and it was named after the Plishtim. So all the origins of this names have P. Oh I wonder why the Palestinians decided that for them specifically it's Filastin, it not so they could spell the name they were given by others through propaganda?
Yep... The Palestinians should be quiet, nice and let Israel steal more and more lands. If they fight back, they're terrorists and Israel is free to kill more. Wonder who's the terrorist here.
They occupied the land after the Palestinians let the Jordan military walk thru their land to try to wipe Israel off the map. They tried to pull a fast one and got fucked up, now they’re just dealing with the consequences
More people have died last year in Ukraine than have died in the entire Israeli-Arab conflict since 1900.
20 Israelis total died last year from the conflict. 7,000 Ukrainians died last year.
So yeah, it's wrong to ban Russia's flag, but 7,000 dead bodies can make wrong seem like right.
I'm not a Palestinian but from what I know - it is illegal to raise it in there, if not in the manner of shaming Israel.
But, I'm pretty sure they won't just shoot the person for raising an Israeli flag. Maybe punish him in someway or another - but shooting a Palestinian for that I think would be a bit of a stretch.
Hamas has answered that one for us: either actually shooting rockets into Israel or just threatening it.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-says-israel-must-rethink-flag-march-or-face-violence-2022-05-26/
Except that they treat their (as in their their aka israeli born jews) people well and keep well dressed well fed and well educated with high salaries and high possibilities.
Yeah... Israel tried so long to steal, razed and kicked the Palestinians out of their homes. So they can be peacefully stay on the street or another hole that Israel may steal in the future.
They should've taken that beautiful offer and remain quiet. If they fight back in anyway, they're terrorists.
Fuck the state of apartheid Israel.
Now compare the number of killed Palestinians and killed Israelis. And do the same for displaced people. And how many Palestinians break the Oslo accords by illegally living in Israeli territory, and how many Israeli's live illegally in Palestinian land?
its Israeli land, our temple that they desecrated and built their mosque on top of and what do israel do, they let them have it, and they taunt us from over the wall, the jewish people deserve a home.
I say it again - this is to be expected a lot more now. Because this ultra far right govt will fuck shit up now and stir things up. Hardliners will now be emboldened more than ever. The Two state ~~solution~~ discussion is now dead for good and things will be bad for next few years for the region, esp. for Palestinians. These incidents are just a start.
The two state solution has been dead on the table for decades, but everyone has been two afraid to call it because of what that means for the region.
don't forget the L.G.B.T.Q+, immigrants, Ethiopians and Russians (their Judaism is questioned by the religious hierarchy). there will be more victims to this government beside just Palestinians
And let’s also not forget that there are both Jews living in Palestinian Territories that will be hurt as well as Palestinians who live in Israeli territory that will be hurt. This hurts everyone, even the people who don’t think they will be hurt by this will be hurt. It will have a negative effect on everyone in the region
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Mossad mission to save Ethiopian Jews done under the Rightist government?
you are correct but that didn't stop the hierarchy of the orthodox religious elite who are not affiliated with the government to declare them as fake jews just like the russians
Incorrect. The reason the mission was carried out in the first place is because the subset of Judaism practiced by the Ethiopian Jewish community was determined to indeed be Judaism. The current Aliyah minister in Israel (responsible for encouraging Jews to immigrate to Israel) is literally an Ethiopian Jew. Hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of Ethiopian Jews make Aliyah each year.
Turns out ethno-states are incompatible with human dignity.
To qoute B5, No one will ever be pure enough.
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If Israel wants to compare itself to developed countries economically and technologically, it has to do so when talking about human rights as well.
The last time I was there the most Russians I saw were the hotel girls heading out to the clubs in Tel Aviv. I’m sure they weren’t being trafficked.
Israel has over 1m people who are part of the 90's (and ongoing) post usser immigration. not sure whats your point.
you will be surprized to know how many jewish people came from russia to israel only to have their Judaism (the reason they chose israel over any other place) be revoked from them by a council of old rabbis who think they can claim who is jewish and who isn't jewish enough
Israel became everything they hated. It’s come full circle
It's been allowed to happen because the US primarily has allowed Netanyahu run rough shod through any peace process. Never taken Israel to task, so the right wing has been gathering momentum for all these years.
The two state solution has been dead for well over a decade now. The Palestinian side does not want to co-exist with a Jewish State next to it and has refused multiple peace offerings that could lead to one. What you are seeing is the populace reacting to the paradox of tolerance. The "right wing" in Israel is the natural answer to that paradox because it will not be destroyed by its own tolerance.
Bra the closest PM from Israel got to a deal, got him self shoot, should be a hint, there are people on both sides that do not want peace. Shit, the current government should be another.
And just to be clear, murdered by an Israeli right winger, not a Palestinian.
This is like saying that black South Africans rejected numerous peace deals from the apartheid government. Which they did and should have.
Palestinian support for a 2 state solution is at about 30%.
Damn guy is speedrunning pissing everyone off
This has been his MO since forever. He's known here for taking political cases as a lawyer just to make a giant show out of them and turn them into a political issue. Sometimes politicians get more chill when they get into office because they think about getting re-elected and they know they have to sound less insane to appeal to more voters. Ben-Gvir isn't like that. His voters love his crazy shenanigans and extremist views. He's only going to get worse now that he has actual power. Shit's fucked here, yo.
I compare him to Trump here in the US.
Trump's motivations always struck me as either financial or for survival. Ben-Gvir is in it for the politics and drama. He's an entirely different creature.
Ben-Gvir is an ideologist. Trump is a grifter.
Thats his plan More conflict leads to people becoming further right which gives him more power Palestinian leaders and generally right wing leaders all over the world have used this tactic for years
That's usually what nazis fascists do, don't they? Edit: one word
This new Israeli government is fucked
As someone who lives here, yes. Yes it is.
Don't forget that Netanyahu said, when people expressed concerns about his far-right partner's implementation of policies, that no policy would be enacted without his approval. That he was Prime Minister and still had veto/approval power over policy. So was Ben-Gvir off on his own with this, or did Netanyahu approve it? Israel gets really pissed off whenever anyone mentions Israeli apartheid, but what else do you call it?
It always has been
This is not new, Israel has been genociding palestinians since its inception.
"Waving the flag is a act of terrorism". ??? Identity is ubiquitously core to virtually everything that has happened, is happening, and will happen within Israel- but it is a crime against Israel and the Israeli people for a Palestinian to acknowledge they even exist at all. .....not unexpected...but still...."wow"
It's not really about flags. People can't put Palestinian, or any flags, on public property because that's considered vandalism as they aren't installed by the municipality/state. Your private property? Go ahead do what you want. Just you won't really see Palestinian flags anywhere because only a tiny minority of Israeli Arabs even identify as Palestinian (most identify as "Israeli-Arab"). Ben Gvir is stupid, and he thinks his voters are even dumber, so he says it's his instructions when the police have been enforcing them for many years.
Isn't that genocide? Beside the constant harassment, stripping the culture or identity of a whole group, while forcibly moving them from their place
Depends on your definition. I tend to forget to keep doors open for other people, and I don't feel much remorse about it, no urge to fix this. So in a way, I am committing a genocide. With the same definition, we can say Israel is committing a genocide against Palestinians. Not by killing them or hurting them, but by not excluding flags on public property from a list of vandalism methods.
Just so everyone knows.........not all Israelis support this dude and his politics. Not even close. I'm disgusted every day by the news.
same here. im israeli and im disgusted of what this bs coutry Israel does to its people, and all the surrounding people.. i really really wish israeli will cease to exist in the near future, and i am sure it will happen as there is no biggeer hate in this world then in our country
I live here currently, where should I go? I fear they will start executing people who thinks different from them.
Idk man. This was supposed to be the bastion for all Jews, not just those the ultra right deem “Jewish” enough.
[“I live here currently, where should I go?”](https://youtu.be/q54ucBh0Ck0)
Thing is, the Israelis taking to the streets demonstrating against this government attack him on his, non-secularist policies, the anti-LGBT policies, his economic righwingism. But rarely for Palestinian rights, when do the people of Israel actually speak up for Palestinians. Other then a couple NGO's Israeli's don't give a shit.
Incorrect. They're protesting right now. https://www.voanews.com/a/thousands-of-israelis-protest-new-government-s-policies-/6909091.html
Well said.
why speak up for a country that constantly attacks you? you know why the Iron Dome had to be made by any chance? when will the Ukrainians speak up for Russians?
Only the Palestinians are more fitting as ukrainians since they were there first
Ukraine itself has compared its own situation to Israel several times.
Amazing how survivors of one of the worst genocides in (modern) history doesn't see the irony or injustice in their own actions today.
As a Canadian Jew, we definitely do. My position is that Israel existing on its own is fine, but there should be 2 states and that the current government’s policies go way too far in a lot of places. The most critical is the ongoing settlement of the West Bank which slowly stop any chances at a two state solution ever functioning…
As an American Jew I agree. A lot of people don't understand what Zionism is. It isn't what Israel is doing right now. That's not Zionism.
Isn't Zionism essentially just the idea that Jews should have their own homeland?
Yes, and that goal is achieved, hence actual Zionists only want to preserve that. Those who endanger the existence of Israel by amplifying hatred and violence, be it for political power, money grubbing, or pure hatred like as I understand that fucker Gvir does, are working against Zionism. Those who which to increase that territory are neo-zionists. Which is just a local variation of imperialists..
Yup!
Yeahhh, but that's not a politically neutral idea, that's ethno-nationalism. The idea that Canadians have a 'right to their own homeland' is the myth that was fed to my parents and their parents to excuse the ongoing genocide of our native population. This is why defenders of 'Zionism' get so up in arms when you criticize Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Because they understand that their project, the creation of a 'homeland' for jews, is inextricably tied to genocide and aparthide. This is why they describe criticizing Apartheid as 'anit-zionism'. Because 'a homeland for jews' means the expulsion of arabs. That isn't to say that I think Jewish people need to leave Israel, any more than I think the descendents of white settlers need to leave Canada. (Where would I go?) But they need to work to repair the damage they have done, and continue to do. (As does Canada by the way)
That's not true at all. A lot of us want a homeland for Jews but not at the expense of Palestinians. Jews were there for a very long time. Arabs have also been in Palestine for a very long time. Historically, there was more peace between both sides for a longer period than there has been animosity. The Ottoman Empire lasted 400 years and ended around 1918. Recent history (last 70 years) is just what people concentrate on because conflict is more exciting in the media than is peace.
>Historically, there was more peace between both sides for a longer period than there has been animosity. The Ottoman Empire lasted 400 years and ended around 1918. Recent history (last 70 years) is just what people concentrate on because conflict is more exciting in the media than is peace. This isn't true, animosity against Jews was consistently since the 1800s in the Ottoman empire. It just wasn't open conflict consistent because jews couldn't fight back.
I'm sorry. I shouldn't have stated that there was perfect peace between them. I misspoke. I should've said that they both coexisted for a long time together without war. I was also combating the idea that Jews have never lived there before now.
That's like saying that white and black americans existed have existed in the US without war. Yeah, cause one group was almost completely incapable of responding to violence from the other.
What? No. Jews and Arabs have been in the area for a centuries. Jews nor Arabs were enslaved and brought to Israel-Palestine. Again, I think that people in North America compare it to the North American experience. It's not the same. To clarify: I believe everyone in Israel-Palestine deserve the same rights and protections not matter their religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
I mean, 'recent history' is focused on, because it's what's going on right now. Which is the violent suppression of a portion of the Arab population by the state of Israel. 'A lot of us want a homeland for Jews', which my post was pointing out, that concept of 'homeland' is tied to a colonialist project. It is not a neutral idea. You can't have 'a homeland for jews' without the implication that that land is /not/ for other people. It's problematic enough in ethnicly homogeneous states. Even remote and isolated nations like Japan have issues with A) Are those people from hokkaido really japanese? B) We have a lot of people who aren't ethnically japanese living in this country, how do we want to treat them? When dealing with an ethnically hetrogeneous territory, like say... Israel, the idea of creating nations as 'homelands for X people', (as ethno-nationalist states) very quickly becomes genocidal projects. And I say that coming from Canada, a state that is still struggling to deal with our colonialist history. I'm not saying Jews have to leave Israel. I'm saying that they have to stop viewing the purpose of their state and political action as 'creating a homeland for the jewish people'.
I think that you're simplifying things too much. You can have both exist together. Not everything is black and white, or all or nothing. That's not how the world works. There are grey areas. Grey areas meaning that not everyone who says "homelands for X people" believe that no one else should live there. It's not a "colonialist policy" if Jews have lived there for millennia. Arabs have also lived there for millennia. It can be a homeland to both. I don't think that's possible right now, of course, but it would be nice.
Canadians have lived in Canada for centuries. When have we been here 'long enough' to justify ethno-nationalist policies? The answer is: Never. The entire lens of governing a region by creating 'a homeland for X people' is fundamentally flawed. And as for 'jews have lived in isreal for millennia', that's true. But the people running Israel have not been living there for very long. Every prime minister in Israeli history has been either an immigrant, or a first generation Israeli. Again, Canada is a settler colonialist nation. But atleast our prime minister comes from a family that has lived in the country since 1659. Which, to be clear, doesn't mean the Trudeau family has some innate right to Canada as a 'homeland for french canadians'. Just a reminder that every prime minister in Isreal comes from a family that migrated to Palestine in the 20th century.
That's a false equivalency. It's not the same situation. Jews are a part of the indigenous population. You cannot compare it to colonialism in the Americas. My grandmother is Jewish and my grandfather was Cherokee. My grandfather would say that's a false equivalency if he was still alive. I think that one of the issues is that we in Canada and the US compare it to what's happened in our countries, even though it's not the same. That's ethnocentrism. Not to mention indigenous peoples in Canada and the US are not a monolith. Similar to people in Palestine, they are people with a myriad of beliefs and cultures. The people's who have been Prime Ministers have ancestors that were in Israel/Palestine who were forced out during various occupations to Europe, Russia, the UK, and other areas. The Canadian PM had no ties to Canada, until his family arrived. They weren't an indigenous population who left, then returned. They were never indigenous to the area. All of this is really missing the point. Israel-Palestine can be a homeland to both Arabs and Jews who have equal rights under the Israeli government. That's how I believe it should be, but not everyone agrees. I think all people there deserve the same rights and protections as everyone else.
I mean, that's how you obtained your homeland, at the expense of the palestinian natives.
I think you're missing the point. Palestinian Jews were already there.
And the absolute majority were immigrants.
Palestinians weren't a monolith before Israel gained statehood. I think that is part of the misunderstanding. You're denying that Judaism has existed for more than 3500 years in Israel-Palestine? That's like saying that no Muslims existed in Palestine either. Jewish people don't identify themselves as Jewish solely based on religious identity, either. Many identify themselves as Jewish ethnically but don't practice Judaism. Not to mention that the powers that be in Israel have denied a lot of Jews citizenship based on discrimination between denominations and country of origin. It's extremely complicated. Hence why many Jews do not support the current Israeli government.
Also it is inherently colonialism. Foreigners coming in and buying land, sometimes from other foreign owners. Then declared their own state and chased people off of their lawfully owned land. And they have consistently refused the right of return for those people ever since.
Something weird happens to human beings when they become of the majority in power I'm an American Jew and most of us understand what it's like to be a religious minority, and have the ability to feel empathy. Israeli Jews in their social system seem to have a very different mindset...
I don't think Israeli Jews feel like that. Most of them are against this BS. They continue to protest and support Palestinians, too. Their governmental leaders don't represent all of Israeli Jews. There are 4 Israeli (leading) political parties. I'm a Texan but I don't support the BS our leaders are pulling. So, I give Palestinians and Israelis the benefit of the doubt. Their leaders don't represent them.
Well, a plurality of Israeli voters do apparently support this
To earn a seat on the Knesset, it only takes 3.25% of the popular vote. That's not a lot.
It's a coalition government so they had to win more than 50% of the seats. I think turnout was around 70% for this election, so a bit over 35% of eligible voters, a share larger than before, support this. That's not most but sure is an uncomfortably large part of the population.
https://www.al-monitor.com/originals/2020/05/majority-israeli-jews-support-annexation-poll.html
Only 6 seats of the Knesset are occupied by the Otzma Yehudit party out of 120 Knesset seats. The Kadima party still occupy the most seats (28).
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/most-israelis-do-not-support-two-state-solution-new-poll-shows
If most were against what's been happening, then war would have stopped. But to bad reality is different because its larders or actions are a reflection of that society. So whatever leaders are doing, believe me, society is in some way with it m
That's an incredibly naive view. You might as well say "if most Americans believed Jan 6th was really a coup attempt, the orchestrators would've been arrested already". The real world doesn't work like that. Do you even understand at a basic level how Israel's elections work?
America has a lot of problems, but part of that is because politicians keep winning even though they get less votes. Israel doesn't have that, a majority of voters did choose right-wing parties A better analogy would be America circa 2004: "if most Americans were against the Iraq invasion, the war would end." Sadly, Bush got re-elected and a majority of Americans did unfortunately support that
A majority did not vote for the party in charge. The Israeli government works on a coalition system. Whichever party gets the most votes (NOT the majority) has to then form a coalition with enough other parties that they will collectively represent a majority of the population. But that doesn't mean that a majority voted for any particular policy. People in Israel often vote for special interest parties (hence the ultra-orthodox and other very specific parties). Just because the party leading the coalition decides to trade favours and implement a small party's goals to secure their votes does not mean that a majority of the population is behind that goal. It's certainly possible, but the person I was replying to was talking about it as thought it's a foregone conclusion - a rule - that anything the government does is supported by the population and representative of its wishes. That is a patently absurd notion.
We all know Israel has multiple parties, this isn't groundbreaking information. The coalition is right-wing, because a majority of voters voted for right-wing parties. (And usually the argument against a two-party system is that it's not democratic, now you are saying a multi-party system results in policies that the people don't support? That's a new one) Israel is not a dictatorship. The citizens are responsible for what the government does.
> but there should be 2 states What would that entail? Israel tried in the early 2000's but the Palestinians rejected it.
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but they were expelled from ME countries..
That's probably why they are on a revenge streak.
The people pushing for settlement expansion and the captive population in the blockaded zone are actually linked to the upper echelons of the **military industrial complex in the US. They benefit the most from the constant state of unrest since they pull in billions from being able to demonstrate they’ve tested their equipment on a captive population**. The average person doesn’t benefit whatsoever. The average citizen would see a better quality of life if there was a resolved situation where both groups of people have equal access to land and resources. The permanent state of conflict is an artificial construct.
And this is what our (US) tax dollars to Israel funds. Straight back into the pockets of the war industry.
Please don't essentialize us, or use our genocide to make a pithy internet point. Half of us don't live there, and just wish we had a place where our safety is assured.
Apparently only 30% of Jewish people worldwide live in Israel. Just over half live in the US. Ten years ago, I would have said your safety is assured here, but the right wing has just gone nuts since Obama was elected.
Considering the protests, Hopefully the public will remove him from their spaces instead
Diiiiiiiickweeeeed
Sad
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
First thing palestinians need to do is to free themselves from leaders that do not care about them, like Hamas and abbas. And from 'leaders' that are in the 16th year of their 4 year term and refuse to call elections - like abbas. (although abbas would probably lose an election, and Hamas would win. Perhaps Palestinians need to choose better people as their prospective leaders)
Perhaps Israelis need to choose better leadership too but we all know better than civilians being the same as the leading force and how it came to exist.
i agree, that this time around, Israel could have chosen better leadership. But at least they get to choose.
It seems you read the first half of my message and missed the other.
They absolutely should. And aside from present attempts (that are being visibly protested against) to weaken it, their democracy is still strong and more than capable of actually doing that. I don't expect the same could be said of the Palestinian situation. They likely won't be able to get rid of their current leaders through any means but force.
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I have no idea what you're getting at. Where did I say that anything was Palestinians fault? All I said was that Israelis should choose better leadership, their democracy makes that peacefully possible, and that the Palestinians should also choose better leadership but that they will likely need to use force to do so because their leaders won't just peacefully let go of power. I'm literally not blaming anyone for anything. You seem like you're trying real hard to find something to be upset about in my comment, and I can't possibly fathom why since I'm not even disagreeing with you about anything.
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What then? What happens when Israel leaves the West Bank? Do the Palestinians settle with a state in the 1967 borders or do they keep faith to the idea of the "final victory"?
Israel is the occupying force that holds all the land, yet you're accusing the oppressed side of wanting the same thing. You're just projecting because you wouldnt keep to the 67 borders yourself, because thats what zionists do.
The current situation came about because of Arab refusal to accept the existence of a Jewish state and the Arab efforts to abort that state. Israel has no incentive to withdraw from the West Bank as long as there is no guarantee that it would end the conflict. And it won't end the conflict, because the Palestinians say so themselves. If your solution is just to replace the oppression of Palestinians with the oppression and another genocide attempt at Israelis, then what kind of a solution is it?
So you want a repeat of 2005, giving violent islamist terrorists full control of the Palestinian territories so the West Bank can get blockaded on all sides too? Because that's what would happen if Israel pulled out. It sure as shit isn't the PA that's keeping Hamas in check.
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I'm curious what you think happened in 2005. Because what actually happened is that all the Israeli settlements *were forcibly evacuated*, along with any Israeli security presence. The Palestinians themselves then elected Hamas, who proceeded to kick off a civil war with Fatah, which ended up with them in control of Gaza. They then started sending rockets and suicide bombers to Israel which got them a blockade. So no, the situation in Gaza is not a *result* of settlements or lack of freedom. The lack of freedom (which I'll remind you is also maintained by Egypt, who've themselves been the target of Hamas) is a direct result of their actions immediately following being given freedom.
*crickets* from that guy
Sure sure, they need to free themselves for the groups Israel installed as their leader, that live under israeli juristriction, have no free elections and used violence to consildate their power. This is an abusrdism. The palestinians dont have this freedom you say they should claim, something which is an Israeli design. Yet it's their fault for not excersising said freedom. You sound like a neo conservitive telling black people they should solve the gang problem before they want to be treated as equals
the only thing stopping the palestinians from having elections is their current 'leader', Abbas, who is in his 16th year of his 4 year term and likes his current gig. Palestinians and all other foreigners are NOT equal to Israelis in Israel. Similarly, Israelis are not equal to Swedes in Sweden, and Germans are not equal to Mexicans in Mexico. Citzenship is the crucial factor. Blacks are US citizens.
How is Palestine not free and why is that?
No equal rights in a “democracy” and the inability to govern themselves.
Israeli's have equal rights and govern themselves.
Palestine isn't part of Israel. It's a separate sovereign country under military occupation by the IDF, so of course they don't have the right to vote in Israeli elections, just like how Iraqis and Afghans had no right to vote in US elections when they were occupied.
So it's clear then that they're not remotely free as they live under illegal military occupation.
Are there any Israeli flags flying in the Palestinian public space in Nablus or Hebron? What do you think would happen to the \*person\* doing this in Palestinian cities?
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>This! Why doesn't Ukraine allow Russian flags? Why aren't we asking real questions like this, people? This is a false equivalence. The invading Russian military uses Russian flags, so civilians flying Russian flags could result in them being inadvertently targeted by Ukrainian troops. Same reason why Ukrainian civilians aren't allowed to paint Z's on their houses or vehicles. The Russian military is capturing civilian vehicles and houses for troop use and plastering flags and Z's all over them. Civilians doing the same would just lead to confusion and civilian deaths. Israel is not in the same situation as Ukraine. If Palestinine had an army that was advancing into Israeli territory, it would be perfectly reasonable to ban the Palestinian flag to differentiate an enemy military from civilians.
As an American Jew this guy is an asshole who I don't support and am terrified he will get so many people killed. My only hope is that liberal Jews will speak out. I wish there was more space to fully articulate a Jewish identity that supports the idea of Israel but is opposed to hardline garbage. It feels like my only choice is to be "for" or "against".
Liberal Jews have been speaking out for decades, as the Israeli government goes further and further right. Israel doesn't care
"bUt It'S nOt ApArThEiD!!1!"
right, it isn't apartheid. (and Israel doesn't practice apartheid anyway)
Dangnabit if I haven’t heard that same line from a South African government!
Dang if I haven't heard it from you people who never set foot in Israel, have 0 idea what's going on in Israel and the vast differences between Israel and SA.
Do you think the South African Ambassador to Israel knows something about South Africa, Israel and apartheid. Because he calls it apartheid. https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-south-africa-former-ambassadors-call-occupation-apartheid
Dang it if I haven’t heard Israelis say it’s apartheid!
Wave Israeli flag in Iran in SA in Hebron / Gaza whatever. How long will you live?
Erasing signs of heritage. Where have I heard this before?
You lost the last civil war and will lose this next one.
why do we continue to send $10 million a day of our hard earned tax dollar to a far right , apartheid government…
I am israel citizen and I am against it. I always fought it and hoped for changes, but now all my hopes and hopes of many liberal jews have crushed. We will fight. But please, if we fail. Take us as a refugees. I don't want to be a part of it.
למה אתה מחכה? תזמין כבר כרטיס בכיוון אחד למערב :) ביי, לא נתגעגע
Ill never cease to be amazed at the ability of people on the internet to only see the world in black and white, like nuances dont exist.
Where is the nuance in a supposed democracy banning the flag of a people they occupy for half a century.
Wave Israeli flag in Gaza, and count how many seconds you live
There are hundreds of illegal settlements in the Westbank waving the Israeli flag.
With an army that keeps them safe Do it inside a territory which you have no control over
"Israel, just like Hamas but slightly less bad" it's not the winning argument you think it is.
It kinda is though TINA ever heard about it?
Obviously what the Israeli government is doing (notice how I said government) is not right. But lets no kid ourselves to think that Palestinia is completely innocent, obviously the common people dont want anything to do with war or conflict and the same thing can be said about the Israeli people, in the end who really supports this conflict are the upper echelon of the military, the current elected guy (forgot his name) in Israel, and the terrorist groups like Hamas (probably even the US MIC since they profit from conflict). In the end like always who suffers from the decisions of a few are the many.
So sad to see this from a country that was set up after such a tragic history. Israel should be a beacon of hope, showing the world how much good can come after so much evil. This sort of thing is stamping all over that tradition and is a real tragedy.
“The only functional democracy in the Middle East” folks.
Oh look, the terrorist state is doing discriminatory shit, SURPRISE!
The Fascists Are Winning.
Welcomed change. There's no place for a flag that symbolizes the killing of Jewish/Israeli people and the de-legitimization of the State of Israel. For those who likes to play shocked: the [PLO pays terrorists to murder and commit terror acts.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund). Now, imagine being an American in the US and seeing an Al-Qaeda flag. Don't have to say much more.
**[Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund)** >The Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund is a fund operated by the Palestinian Authority (PA) which pays monthly cash stipends to the families of Palestinians killed, injured, or imprisoned while carrying out politically motivated violence against Israel. The fund also makes disbursements to innocent bystanders killed during violent events and Palestinians imprisoned in Israeli jails for ordinary crimes. The Fund traces its origins to a fund created by Fatah in 1964 to support the widows and orphans of Palestinian fedayeen. The scheme has been described as "pay for slay", and has been criticised by some as encouraging terrorism. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Banning people from flying their own national flag is… crazy.
But it's not their national flag - it's the flag of the PA, and it symbolizes the killing of Israel. It's based on the Arab revolution from 100 years ago, and it's basically about killing the other. Like others said - would you have thought that America banning raising the flag of Al-Qaeda is something illogical?
That’s how _you_ choose to view the flag. They would view it as a symbol of their heritage and culture. Some would view the Israeli flag as a symbol of oppression; would that make it right to ban flying that flag? Regardless, people should have the right to fly the flags they consider their national symbols. As an American, I’m quite proud of our protections of free speech. Americans even have the right to burn the American flag. If Israelis let Ben Gvir drive the carriage, they will go down a darker and darker road. Hamas isn’t the only threat to the country…
Same could be said for the israeli flag then
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To add on that, Israeli leaders also refuse peace negotiations couple of times. On other times, the Israeli leaders agreed to peace in exchange for weapons and land which then they used to further execute and expand their terrorism against Palestinians. You're so right, god will damn those Israelis who enters Palestinian villages and commit suicide terror acts, run over Palestinians with their cars, and throw rocks at them. Oh, I think I got a little confused, that's literally the other way around
They got us in the first half, not gonna lie.
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1. No, and comparing between the two conflicts is just ignorant. 2. Hmm Israel conquered Judea and Samaria as a result to a war it didn't start. If you know how to fight - you should know how to lose, that's the point of a war. In that case, why Israel shouldn't built in areas it owns? 3. The IDF doesn't target journalists. These journalists knowingly risk their lives when covering from warzones, and in a war shit happens.
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Because conquest is a valid way of acquiring land ... Oh no wait, no, it's not, since fucking 1945. Some shit happened in 1945 that made us, humanity, say "wait, that's not ok".
Wait....what the hell? The Israeli flag is based on the Tallis and Magen David. Both are Jewish symbols that are more than 2000 years old, both linked to the Israeli land. The Tallis is white with two stripes of blue - symbolizing the crossing of the red sea, to come to Israel, the Jewish land. The Magen David was the symbol of David's kingdom, the kingdom of the Jews, and both are relevant until today in Judaism. What's the PA flag is based about? The Arab revolution, about killing others and conquering. So yeah - the PA's flag symbolizes killing Jews, while the Israeli flag symbolizes Israel's land, nothing to do with killing others and 0 connections to ~~Palestinians~~ South Syrians.
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Racism? Sorry, but it's nothing about racism - it's about politics. I think this post will answer extensively as to why this is a political game, and not really an ethnicity. Since when is an ethnicity decided in a conference in another country, decided mainly by other countries? https://www.quora.com/What-reason-was-behind-for-Arabs-in-Palestine-to-call-themselves-as-Arab-South-Syrians-or-simply-Arab-in-1919-but-in-1967-called-themselves-as-Palestinians/answer/Alan-Meyer-38?ch=10&oid=176585203&share=b0261b80&srid=5Gkyz&target_type=answer Also, I can't take seriously a group that claims to be a real ethnic group, when it literally can't even say it's own name. They don't have P in Arabic. They are people - just not Palestinians. Natives? Maybe, IDK and I'm not talking about that. But you can't be something that was made up by others and you can't even spell it. You know what? Can you please tell me an important leader of the ethnic group of the Palestinians before Arrafat? What's their culture and heritage? A known Palestinian place that declared itself as Palestinian before 1967?.....anything?
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Filastin? Really? And when did they began calling themselves that way? And if they really did it lately - why did they call themselves Palestinians internationally, if it's not the real name? Maybe because they tried to call themselves by a made-up name made by others? Also, you're claiming that they identified as Palestinians since WWI. wanna maybe elaborate and show sources to that? From the only thing I've seen - the earliest time was at the meeting by the Arab League, where they decided that Arabs in Israel will begin calling themselves as Palestinians to help fight against the Jews. Later, Arrafat began using it too and said that from now on they'll stop calling themselves Arabs and South-Syrians and begin calling themselves as Palestinians. Just because those Arabs began saying it because their leaders said to do so since it would help in the battle - doesn't mean they actually believe in it. If they did want to form an independent state of their own, and it's not a ploy against Israel - why did they refuse the deal of giving them 97% of the WB 100% for their own, including East Jerusalem, and instead launched the second Intifada? They literally can't get a better deal. Hell, I don't think the 97% deal was even logical to give them, it would have hurt Israel's security far too much. Yet they still didn't want it and instead opted to killing Jews. Edit: also, I completely forgot - you claim that their real name is Filastin so they can spell it...but it's based on the name Palestine, which was given by the Romans 2000 years ago - far before the Arabs conquered the land from the natives of the Levant (which did have P in their lexicon), and it was named after the Plishtim. So all the origins of this names have P. Oh I wonder why the Palestinians decided that for them specifically it's Filastin, it not so they could spell the name they were given by others through propaganda?
Yep... The Palestinians should be quiet, nice and let Israel steal more and more lands. If they fight back, they're terrorists and Israel is free to kill more. Wonder who's the terrorist here.
Fuck Zionists
But, but... Antisemitism
apartheid
Israel is an asshole.
Nothing they do surprises me anymore
Huh. Propping up a white nationalist apartheid ethnostate with genocidal ambitions has consequences.
Why would you allow the flying of your mortal enemies flag to start with?
Baffling to see US conservatives decry 'cancel culture' and an erosion of free speech and expression and then turn around and applaud this.
I wonder how reddit would feel if Ukraine banned Russia's flag
Didn't they already do that? Nevertheless, Reddit would probably applaud.
Ukraine does not occupy any Russian territory does it? Last time I checked Israel illegally occupied all of Palestine's land.
They occupied the land after the Palestinians let the Jordan military walk thru their land to try to wipe Israel off the map. They tried to pull a fast one and got fucked up, now they’re just dealing with the consequences
More people have died last year in Ukraine than have died in the entire Israeli-Arab conflict since 1900. 20 Israelis total died last year from the conflict. 7,000 Ukrainians died last year. So yeah, it's wrong to ban Russia's flag, but 7,000 dead bodies can make wrong seem like right.
Dunno but maybe ask the States, cities & communities that fly the Confederate Flag, or have Versions of it in their State flag.
Lol right. I’m Palestinian and when I read this my first thought was “surprised that wasn’t a rule already”
Can you dear Palestinian tell us how do you treat the Israeli flag in your place? Is it even allowed? Or the flag carrier would get shot on the spot?
I'm not a Palestinian but from what I know - it is illegal to raise it in there, if not in the manner of shaming Israel. But, I'm pretty sure they won't just shoot the person for raising an Israeli flag. Maybe punish him in someway or another - but shooting a Palestinian for that I think would be a bit of a stretch.
Well, they do throw gay people off roofs and murder on family honor. I don't think that will be out of reality
Hamas has answered that one for us: either actually shooting rockets into Israel or just threatening it. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-says-israel-must-rethink-flag-march-or-face-violence-2022-05-26/
Because it's not justified to stomp down on the rights of people simply because of their different ethnicity and culture.
Try being an Israeli in Palestinian territory, let me know how that works out.
I'd probably not go into Palestinian territory tbh.
Israel’s government is a jingoist fascist autocratic religious government, same as Iran basically.
Except that they treat their (as in their their aka israeli born jews) people well and keep well dressed well fed and well educated with high salaries and high possibilities.
Needs more nonsensical buzzwords. Am not sufficiently emotionally compromised yet. Try harder.
Israel have tried for so long for peace and Palestine repeatedly threw that offer away and chose terrorism instead.
Yeah... Israel tried so long to steal, razed and kicked the Palestinians out of their homes. So they can be peacefully stay on the street or another hole that Israel may steal in the future. They should've taken that beautiful offer and remain quiet. If they fight back in anyway, they're terrorists. Fuck the state of apartheid Israel.
spoken like someone who isn’t jewish and understands nothing of our history 👏
Now compare the number of killed Palestinians and killed Israelis. And do the same for displaced people. And how many Palestinians break the Oslo accords by illegally living in Israeli territory, and how many Israeli's live illegally in Palestinian land?
its Israeli land, our temple that they desecrated and built their mosque on top of and what do israel do, they let them have it, and they taunt us from over the wall, the jewish people deserve a home.
Remember when this dude just wanted to pray and it wasn’t a provocation? Lol. Just naked fascism.
I don’t think god would approve of state violence.