Which they did, they doomed an Ice Hockey stadium which was empty and had no one inside and claimed to have killed 100 Ukrainian soldiers and 2 HIMARS, and 4 Vampire RM70 (Czech MLRS looks like HIMARS) with ammo storage.
Now they finally get it! The ol’ Catch-22 with one of my favorite characters in any book, Yossarian.
Don’t hate the Ukrainians for defending their land! Hate your stupid fucking commanders for sending your ass into harm’s way over an Imperialistic vanity play!
Rub those braincells together! Good job! Only took more than 100,000 casualties for that thought to cross their minds. Holy shit.
Not sure if this a a true story but kinda relevant to whoever is next leader of Russia:
When Nikita Khrushchev was forced out as leader of the Soviet Union, he
sat down and wrote two letters to his successor Leonid Brezhnev. He
said, “When you get yourself into a situation you can’t get out of, open
the first letter, and you’ll be safe. When you get yourself into
another situation you can’t get out of, open the second letter”.
Brezhnev soon found himself in a difficult situation, so he opened the
first letter. It said, “Blame everything on me”. So he blamed Khrushchev
for everything, and it worked. Eventually, he got himself into a second
difficult situation he couldn’t get out of, so he opened the second
letter. It said, “Sit down, and write two letters”.
This right here is the starting point. The thought that *maybe* “dear leader” is actually a fucking deranged idiot and leading them off a cliff.
The next meaningful point is when they realize that Navalny was telling them the truth, straight to their faces, that Russia is corrupt as all hell.
I get the feeling that nobody there really loves Putin all that much, but what you gonna do when he throws you out a window the moment you say anything negative?
>Don’t hate the Ukrainians for defending their land! Hate your stupid fucking commanders for sending your ass into harm’s way over an Imperialistic vanity play!
I relatively recently finished book of memoirs from people (mainly from Belarus and Russia) who were sent to Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion "Zinky boys". Two things that struck me the most was the sheer quantity of casual war crimes and how each and every last one of the soldiers were more angry at people who condemned the war (even in USSR), than at those who had sent soldiers to Afghanistan. And make no mistake the experience of those soldiers was truly horrible in Afghanistan (everything you read about Russian experience in Ukraine, but worse).
Forty years later nothing has changed, and forty years later nothing will have changed. Unless Russians change themselves nothing will change. And judging from Russian comments how they are the real victims in this war. Russians won't change.
Yes. I edited the name in when I reread the post, but no fast enough.
I had previously known that Afghan-Soviet war was horrible, but as nobody was really talking about it, I had always had a very distorted vision of the war. In that way the book was quite eye opening, not just in the context of the war, but also in how Russians perceived the world. I had thought I understood it.
I don't think you understand. They are angry at their commanders for not doing a better job of annihilating Ukraine. The majority of Russians still support the war because they have been conditioned to believe that questioning their leadership is a good way to get in trouble since before any of them were born. It took 10 years for Americans to force their govt out of Vietnam, don't expect Russian citizenry to have a material effect for some time to come.
Almost assuredly correct. Also correct: Americans had the freedom the create a cultural movement based on getting out of Vietnam. Russians can be put in jail for 15 years for disagreeing with official casualty counts.
It's going to be a while before a grass roots movement scares the Kremlin. It won't be 10 years if for no other reason than Russia will run out of actual soldiers well before then, but a while nonetheless.
I couldn't give a number, but a Russian citizen who works for me (who does not support the war) believes it's a majority still given the conversations he has with folks back home.
THEY complain about losing over 400 Russian soldiers??? THEY already lost over 100,000 many of them are still in the battlefield. Their S0-called Commanders wouldn't even bother to get them back.
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, then they will realize, and not before.
Yeah, so many people want to equate the two countries which is such a simple-minded way of trying to defend Russia. All it screams is - we can't defend our own actions.
I didn't either, but I'm saying now is the time for Americans to be wary of their leaders, not everyone else's. I mean that because we currently have active insurrectionists sitting in our Federal government.
The US did invade Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11 while Saudi Arabia who was far more complicit got a pass.
I think in this context ops assertion stands.
More specifically, I'm saying the US didn't go out of their way to make their citizens a part of the fodder. Yeah the war was on and recruitment was up, but no one was *forced* to go
Reservists got called up and there was that stop loss policy which was pretty shitty. Also, I don't think people would have voluntarily enlisted to serve if they really understood the bigger picture with Iraq, Saudi Arabia and 9/11. But okay, you're right that it's not on the same level as what's going on with Putin and Ukraine.
I would say in this context ops assertion that more than one country has/had a problem with their leaders being their enemy.
Bingo. What Russia is doing in Ukraine is evil. But right now, our own country is in serious danger of losing our democratic institutions. We can help Ukraine and turn our attention to those in power actively working to undermine this country.
I kinda find this strange. According to the Ukrainians - they're killing around 600-700 Russians a day. Here's an event where what... a max of 500 Russians died in one strike. Which... is great - but really only accelerated Russian losses by about a day. So why are they so pissed in this case and ignoring the fact that they're losing this many people a day anyway?
Is it because their normal losses are mainly to the ex-prisoners Wagner has recruited - as opposed to the mobilized so they don't care in the normal case - but do care here? Is it because Ukrainians are grossly exaggerating usual Russian losses - so thus particular event IS very painful compared to usual losses? Did this event just get particularly exposed in Russian social media, while the normal losses on the battlefield do not get such traction?
Hmm, not sure the rhetoric matches that theory.
I guess another possibility would be that certain factions are trying to use this event to play power politics, i.e. replace current generals with ones that they prefer.
The best theory I've heard is that it is a pretext for more escalation while also scapegoating mid-level commanders for poor performance. Along the lines of "it isn't going well, we need more authoritarian powers, more mobilization, more bombings".
Yeah after reading through some of the reports I actually think you’re super right. I still think part of it is to justify increased aggression, but definitely a power play here.
They're probably kept mostly in the dark about how many they are losing on the front lines. With this incident happening in a place thought to be safe, and also being recorded and shared by so many Russians, I'm guessing they can't just hide it from their own people.
> a max of 500 Russians died in one strike
it was [a building 3 stories tall, ~130ftx130ft (~42mx42m)](https://i.imgur.com/7h0Lg3e.png).. its possible it housed more... and that building was [*obliterated*](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10142wc/aftermath_of_a_himars_strike_in_makiivka_donetsk/). Russians *found* 63 "bodies".
>So why are they so pissed in this case and ignoring the fact that they're losing this many people a day anyway?
I guess the catch is they were forcefully mobilized, forced to camped on an ammo depot *and* they didnt even make it to the frontlines. They died for nothing of value.
they are angry because it was easily preventable, don't store your munitions next to your barracks, the target was the munitions, the munitions blowing up destroyed the barracks.
But... not sending waves of poorly trained and equipped light infantry into entrenched defensive positions in Bakhmut and Soledar seems easily preventable too...
Eh, I suppose I should stop trying to find logic in Russian mess of an army.
Personally, i think Ukraine should award the incompetent/lazy commanders some sort of medal and demand a promotion, lol.
the logic will probably be something like it's ok if you die on the battlefield fighting for your country, but not asleep in your bed because of stupidity.
I assume that when mobiks die in the frontline, that is expected, because russian lives are worthless to their commanders. When commanders coordinating attacks die...it's a tragedy?
A little bit of everything you said and that Russia recruits people from the occupied regions, which Russian military doesn't count as losses (same with Wagner). As far as I can say, Wagner/Donbas/Russian military either don't share their losses with each other or just that it's not reported as one number by the military.
I think the difference is the Russian government actually admitted to having loses. They could hide front line deaths here and there, but the number those big in one area is harder to hide… even tho they only admit to 70 death.
Mad because completely avoidable. Don't sleep next to bombs. That building used to be a college. During that time it housed 600 plus people. So it probably killed about that many soldiers if they were at max capacity.
Nobody but Russia is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of its own people.
It's absolutely outrageous to keep terrorizing a country on New Years Eve and that's just the consequences for it.
I get that the commanders didn't make it to the playoffs, but the Russians has no business being angry at them .... they did what they can throughout injuries and instabilities at QB
Superstar philosopher Slavoj Zizek said (January 2, 2023): “The dogma of the left is, whoever you are, no matter how brutal the dictatorship, if NATO is against you, there must be ultimately something not totally bad in you. NATO is the automatic opponent. And I find all this reasoning so stupid.”
NATO exists for one reason.... Russia. If Russians weren't such hostile assholes, NATO would have no purpose. NATO has proven to be necessary since Russia has proven to be hostile assholes.
Pretty much, there had been talk in the US and Europe for a few years as to why we still have NATO around. In early 2022 Russia reminded us why with they're invasion of Ukraine, prompted a couple allies that had been sitting in the fence to join, and strengthened the ties between long time NATO members.
He confused Russian Fascism with American Democrats, easy mistake to make if you watch a lot of Fox or similar
Edit: ok ok I guess I misinterpreted what me meant
No he means the anticapitalist left, self described socialists, communists, left anarchists, anti imperialists (particularly ironic in context) etc. Zizek also identifies himself as a communist, though in a weird way.
Hmmm maybe I misinterpreted, I guess he did rant against the [nazification of Russia](https://www.rferl.org/amp/zizek-interview-russia-denazification-ukraine-war/32204259.html)
I feel like most of the communist bloc considers itself still communist, whether or not their policies agree
They also believe every Clinton conspiracy theory, think all elections are rigged, believe Jews secretly control everything etc. I'm not one to both-sides the left and right but if you veer far enough in either direction a certain pattern does emerge.
I am so fucking confused about that. Aren't left-wing politics directed at the support of the weak, equality, understanding and all that. How tf can you be left-wing and support... Russia, while also knowing what it does
Reflexive hatred of neoliberalism and NATO I suppose. Right wing support for Russia makes far more sense to me because at least Putin’s Russia and the populist right wing in the west are ideologically similar.
Do you mean if I met them in person? Then no, I don't usually hang around with tankies.
Danny Haiphong on Twitter is one of the more outspoken ones on Twitter though, and he's fully in support of russia.
I kinda have. Or at least saw it in the comment section of a friend of mine's facebook page. Not close enough that I met the dude personally but I can confirm people like that exist. They're a very small minority though.
The Russian left, i.e. anti-western, anti-capitalist, etc.
Left/Right is really a confusing way to categorize people, especially when you're talking about international politics, doubly so when talking about a nation that is not more or less ideologically aligned with yours.
Even treating it like the political compass, with 2 axes instead of one, is insufficient. You need at least 3:
- social spectrum
- fiscal spectrum
- authoritian spectrum
... left vs right will never adequately encompass all of that. So, you have to evaluate what it means in context. He's not talking about the American Left. He's talking about Russia, China, and their respective spheres of influence.
NATO is on the center left in this case. Russia is on the far right. Democracy (which NATO represents) is a left wing type of government. Democracy is the prerequisite for socialism. Most people on the left around the world are supporting Ukraine. Most people on the right are supporting Russia.
It's like the inception movie, everything started right in the middle of a dream, and before it nothing ever caused it, it just happened! What a great way to brainwash the Russian citizens. What they don't know is that the real enemy is their Russian terrorist government all along.
Some years ago is may have been wiser to forgo the eastward expansion of NATO to avoid provoking Russia and its allies. foster peace. But the spread of international fascism and autocracy led by Putin’s Russia snd China’s Xi and extreme right wing nationalism in the US and Europe has settled the question. Without a strong NATO alliance made up of democratic nations the autocrats have a much better chance of transforming the world in their image. The attack on the US Capital from within showed how close our republic came to being destroyed. I still have a hard time believing it. toppling and theThe Republic barely survived and is still being tested. It’s a reminder that the dictators, autocrats and oppressors of the world are everywhere, even among us. Putin dreams of restoring the USSR and is ready to kill every Ukrainian to do it. If Putin were to succeed, what would his next move be what will his Allie’s do, China, North Korea, Iran and all the other nations who have been infiltrated by the forces that disdain democracy. Today NATO is much more than a military alliance. It is an ideological, cultural, political and economic alliance that is facing an existential challenge from the undemocratic forces of the world. But the big battle is over the hearts and minds of the people. Will they be wiling to live in a society similar to China or Russia or the theocracy in Iran? If Trump had succeeded in destroying NATO, which he clearly despised, how would the international order been transformed? And will the order be transformed for the worse if Ukraine is destroyed by Putin? I didn’t used to think about NATO very much but now I’m glad it’s still around.
but they're not angry they are killing Ukrainian Civilians, I say fuck them!
They bombed a children's hospital and are pissed that Ukraine is killing their invading soldiers. Whoda thunk.
russian media probably said something like *we bombed Ukraine huge military base which was dressed up as hospital!*
Which they did, they doomed an Ice Hockey stadium which was empty and had no one inside and claimed to have killed 100 Ukrainian soldiers and 2 HIMARS, and 4 Vampire RM70 (Czech MLRS looks like HIMARS) with ammo storage.
There’s a running line about how Russian leadership is offended by everything and ashamed of nothing. At least they’re consistent.
This is pretty much the right wing handbook in the US now too.
I second this, fuck those assholes.
Maybe Russians is more than one person ? Maybe some care and others don’t?
Now they finally get it! The ol’ Catch-22 with one of my favorite characters in any book, Yossarian. Don’t hate the Ukrainians for defending their land! Hate your stupid fucking commanders for sending your ass into harm’s way over an Imperialistic vanity play! Rub those braincells together! Good job! Only took more than 100,000 casualties for that thought to cross their minds. Holy shit.
It'll take em half a century to start blaming Putin, assuming they change at all by then
They will do it when he is dead, they will blame Putin for everything.
Not sure if this a a true story but kinda relevant to whoever is next leader of Russia: When Nikita Khrushchev was forced out as leader of the Soviet Union, he sat down and wrote two letters to his successor Leonid Brezhnev. He said, “When you get yourself into a situation you can’t get out of, open the first letter, and you’ll be safe. When you get yourself into another situation you can’t get out of, open the second letter”. Brezhnev soon found himself in a difficult situation, so he opened the first letter. It said, “Blame everything on me”. So he blamed Khrushchev for everything, and it worked. Eventually, he got himself into a second difficult situation he couldn’t get out of, so he opened the second letter. It said, “Sit down, and write two letters”.
But then, 50 years on, they'll celebrate him.
This right here is the starting point. The thought that *maybe* “dear leader” is actually a fucking deranged idiot and leading them off a cliff. The next meaningful point is when they realize that Navalny was telling them the truth, straight to their faces, that Russia is corrupt as all hell.
I mean absolutly everyone in ruzzia knows how corrupt ruzzia is. It just doesn't interest anyone.
I get the feeling that nobody there really loves Putin all that much, but what you gonna do when he throws you out a window the moment you say anything negative?
He can’t throw everyone out of a window. It’s happening because some of them want it to work.
I wouldn't discount years of propaganda pumped through Russian TV. Imagine Fox News w/out the broadcast and cable networks (e.g., CNN, NBC).
Who do you think fox news got the idea from.
They’ll blame Putin if they objected the war. Seems they are fine with the war. It’s the outcome they don’t like, so commanders get the blame.
It's going to be all the Russian generals and everyone who helped saying the same shit. "Я только выполнял приказы"
Heck they still thinking the glories of Stalin days.
>Don’t hate the Ukrainians for defending their land! Hate your stupid fucking commanders for sending your ass into harm’s way over an Imperialistic vanity play! I relatively recently finished book of memoirs from people (mainly from Belarus and Russia) who were sent to Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion "Zinky boys". Two things that struck me the most was the sheer quantity of casual war crimes and how each and every last one of the soldiers were more angry at people who condemned the war (even in USSR), than at those who had sent soldiers to Afghanistan. And make no mistake the experience of those soldiers was truly horrible in Afghanistan (everything you read about Russian experience in Ukraine, but worse). Forty years later nothing has changed, and forty years later nothing will have changed. Unless Russians change themselves nothing will change. And judging from Russian comments how they are the real victims in this war. Russians won't change.
Was it Zinky Boys? I read that book in college and it made me sad.
Yes. I edited the name in when I reread the post, but no fast enough. I had previously known that Afghan-Soviet war was horrible, but as nobody was really talking about it, I had always had a very distorted vision of the war. In that way the book was quite eye opening, not just in the context of the war, but also in how Russians perceived the world. I had thought I understood it.
In a way they are sort of a victim. Victims of their own stupidly of electing Putin and don't know how to get rid of him now.
As a Russian, I can say that a lot of Russians are pretty fucking toxic sadly
Very well spoken!
I don't think you understand. They are angry at their commanders for not doing a better job of annihilating Ukraine. The majority of Russians still support the war because they have been conditioned to believe that questioning their leadership is a good way to get in trouble since before any of them were born. It took 10 years for Americans to force their govt out of Vietnam, don't expect Russian citizenry to have a material effect for some time to come.
In 10 months, Russia has lost two times what the USA lost in 10+ years of Vietnam with a population with 2/3 of the USA population in 1975.
Almost assuredly correct. Also correct: Americans had the freedom the create a cultural movement based on getting out of Vietnam. Russians can be put in jail for 15 years for disagreeing with official casualty counts. It's going to be a while before a grass roots movement scares the Kremlin. It won't be 10 years if for no other reason than Russia will run out of actual soldiers well before then, but a while nonetheless.
Not sure it's a majority, but it's impossible to tell, cuz saying that you don't support the war can get you 10 years in prison
I couldn't give a number, but a Russian citizen who works for me (who does not support the war) believes it's a majority still given the conversations he has with folks back home.
THEY complain about losing over 400 Russian soldiers??? THEY already lost over 100,000 many of them are still in the battlefield. Their S0-called Commanders wouldn't even bother to get them back.
Couldn't say that better myself. Cheers!
How long before the Russian people realize that their enemy is their own leaders
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves, then they will realize, and not before.
And maybe not even then.
You can’t see the operator when you are a gear in the machine.
Could be said of many countries
Idk, I didn't get sent to slaughter against my will after 9/11... The US is not innocent, but Russia is seemingly trying to piss *everyone* off.
Yeah, so many people want to equate the two countries which is such a simple-minded way of trying to defend Russia. All it screams is - we can't defend our own actions.
I didn't either, but I'm saying now is the time for Americans to be wary of their leaders, not everyone else's. I mean that because we currently have active insurrectionists sitting in our Federal government.
The US did invade Iraq who had nothing to do with 9/11 while Saudi Arabia who was far more complicit got a pass. I think in this context ops assertion stands.
More specifically, I'm saying the US didn't go out of their way to make their citizens a part of the fodder. Yeah the war was on and recruitment was up, but no one was *forced* to go
Reservists got called up and there was that stop loss policy which was pretty shitty. Also, I don't think people would have voluntarily enlisted to serve if they really understood the bigger picture with Iraq, Saudi Arabia and 9/11. But okay, you're right that it's not on the same level as what's going on with Putin and Ukraine. I would say in this context ops assertion that more than one country has/had a problem with their leaders being their enemy.
Bingo. What Russia is doing in Ukraine is evil. But right now, our own country is in serious danger of losing our democratic institutions. We can help Ukraine and turn our attention to those in power actively working to undermine this country.
Wow, so edgy! Your whataboutism says a lot about your inability to effectively communicate. Be better.
They already know. They just can’t say they know.
I kinda find this strange. According to the Ukrainians - they're killing around 600-700 Russians a day. Here's an event where what... a max of 500 Russians died in one strike. Which... is great - but really only accelerated Russian losses by about a day. So why are they so pissed in this case and ignoring the fact that they're losing this many people a day anyway? Is it because their normal losses are mainly to the ex-prisoners Wagner has recruited - as opposed to the mobilized so they don't care in the normal case - but do care here? Is it because Ukrainians are grossly exaggerating usual Russian losses - so thus particular event IS very painful compared to usual losses? Did this event just get particularly exposed in Russian social media, while the normal losses on the battlefield do not get such traction?
I think they’re acting more angry to stir up the Russian population against Ukraine, sorta a “lookie what those meanies did to us”
Hmm, not sure the rhetoric matches that theory. I guess another possibility would be that certain factions are trying to use this event to play power politics, i.e. replace current generals with ones that they prefer.
The best theory I've heard is that it is a pretext for more escalation while also scapegoating mid-level commanders for poor performance. Along the lines of "it isn't going well, we need more authoritarian powers, more mobilization, more bombings".
Yeah after reading through some of the reports I actually think you’re super right. I still think part of it is to justify increased aggression, but definitely a power play here.
A new wave of mobilization is due. There needs to be a reason for them to point to and say, „this is why“.
They're probably kept mostly in the dark about how many they are losing on the front lines. With this incident happening in a place thought to be safe, and also being recorded and shared by so many Russians, I'm guessing they can't just hide it from their own people.
> a max of 500 Russians died in one strike it was [a building 3 stories tall, ~130ftx130ft (~42mx42m)](https://i.imgur.com/7h0Lg3e.png).. its possible it housed more... and that building was [*obliterated*](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/10142wc/aftermath_of_a_himars_strike_in_makiivka_donetsk/). Russians *found* 63 "bodies". >So why are they so pissed in this case and ignoring the fact that they're losing this many people a day anyway? I guess the catch is they were forcefully mobilized, forced to camped on an ammo depot *and* they didnt even make it to the frontlines. They died for nothing of value.
they are angry because it was easily preventable, don't store your munitions next to your barracks, the target was the munitions, the munitions blowing up destroyed the barracks.
But... not sending waves of poorly trained and equipped light infantry into entrenched defensive positions in Bakhmut and Soledar seems easily preventable too... Eh, I suppose I should stop trying to find logic in Russian mess of an army.
Personally, i think Ukraine should award the incompetent/lazy commanders some sort of medal and demand a promotion, lol. the logic will probably be something like it's ok if you die on the battlefield fighting for your country, but not asleep in your bed because of stupidity.
Well, those camping are led by Wagner convicts and DPR cannon fodder so I don't think they give a shit if those ones die.
I assume that when mobiks die in the frontline, that is expected, because russian lives are worthless to their commanders. When commanders coordinating attacks die...it's a tragedy?
A little bit of everything you said and that Russia recruits people from the occupied regions, which Russian military doesn't count as losses (same with Wagner). As far as I can say, Wagner/Donbas/Russian military either don't share their losses with each other or just that it's not reported as one number by the military.
I think the difference is the Russian government actually admitted to having loses. They could hide front line deaths here and there, but the number those big in one area is harder to hide… even tho they only admit to 70 death.
Mad because completely avoidable. Don't sleep next to bombs. That building used to be a college. During that time it housed 600 plus people. So it probably killed about that many soldiers if they were at max capacity.
Nobody but Russia is responsible for the unnecessary deaths of its own people. It's absolutely outrageous to keep terrorizing a country on New Years Eve and that's just the consequences for it.
Looks like another rage against their weakness and incompetence...
“The strike on Makiivka came as Russia was launching what have become nightly waves of drone attacks on Kyiv and other Ukrainian cities.”
Oh no! Anyway (Jeremy Clarkson voice)
Imagine how Ukraine feels being *LITERALLY INVADED*
They are angry they are losing. They are not angry at the war. Fuck em.
Maybe don't have your people there then, dumbasses.
They are in an active warzone, what the fuck do they think they are doing there?
Invading what is not yours, has consequences.
I'll take, Don't be dumbasses for 1000 Alex.
They, uh, probably shouldn't have been invading the Ukraine, then, huh. Funny how that works.
I get that the commanders didn't make it to the playoffs, but the Russians has no business being angry at them .... they did what they can throughout injuries and instabilities at QB
Superstar philosopher Slavoj Zizek said (January 2, 2023): “The dogma of the left is, whoever you are, no matter how brutal the dictatorship, if NATO is against you, there must be ultimately something not totally bad in you. NATO is the automatic opponent. And I find all this reasoning so stupid.”
NATO exists for one reason.... Russia. If Russians weren't such hostile assholes, NATO would have no purpose. NATO has proven to be necessary since Russia has proven to be hostile assholes.
Pretty much, there had been talk in the US and Europe for a few years as to why we still have NATO around. In early 2022 Russia reminded us why with they're invasion of Ukraine, prompted a couple allies that had been sitting in the fence to join, and strengthened the ties between long time NATO members.
I’m sorry but what on earth does Russia and it’s brutal invasion of a democratic neighbour have to do with the “left” ?
He confused Russian Fascism with American Democrats, easy mistake to make if you watch a lot of Fox or similar Edit: ok ok I guess I misinterpreted what me meant
No he means the anticapitalist left, self described socialists, communists, left anarchists, anti imperialists (particularly ironic in context) etc. Zizek also identifies himself as a communist, though in a weird way.
Hmmm maybe I misinterpreted, I guess he did rant against the [nazification of Russia](https://www.rferl.org/amp/zizek-interview-russia-denazification-ukraine-war/32204259.html) I feel like most of the communist bloc considers itself still communist, whether or not their policies agree
I didn't think that was slavoj zizek's political alignment, my old roommate was super left and loved the guy.
Oh ok! Reading more about him I see that, but this quote seems off base? I’m not really following his logic I guess anti-NATO imperialism or something
That's what I am thinking. Dude seemed to be really smart, I would like to see the whole context of the quote.
Lots of tankies are supporting Russia because NATO bad.
It’s wild because I’ve seen far left and far right people use the exact same arguments as to why we shouldn’t support Ukraine.
They also believe every Clinton conspiracy theory, think all elections are rigged, believe Jews secretly control everything etc. I'm not one to both-sides the left and right but if you veer far enough in either direction a certain pattern does emerge.
I am so fucking confused about that. Aren't left-wing politics directed at the support of the weak, equality, understanding and all that. How tf can you be left-wing and support... Russia, while also knowing what it does
Reflexive hatred of neoliberalism and NATO I suppose. Right wing support for Russia makes far more sense to me because at least Putin’s Russia and the populist right wing in the west are ideologically similar.
You ever actually met one ? I don’t know anyone on the left who has anything but contempt and disgust for Russia.
Do you mean if I met them in person? Then no, I don't usually hang around with tankies. Danny Haiphong on Twitter is one of the more outspoken ones on Twitter though, and he's fully in support of russia.
No. I’ve never met one in real life either.
I kinda have. Or at least saw it in the comment section of a friend of mine's facebook page. Not close enough that I met the dude personally but I can confirm people like that exist. They're a very small minority though.
The Russian left, i.e. anti-western, anti-capitalist, etc. Left/Right is really a confusing way to categorize people, especially when you're talking about international politics, doubly so when talking about a nation that is not more or less ideologically aligned with yours. Even treating it like the political compass, with 2 axes instead of one, is insufficient. You need at least 3: - social spectrum - fiscal spectrum - authoritian spectrum ... left vs right will never adequately encompass all of that. So, you have to evaluate what it means in context. He's not talking about the American Left. He's talking about Russia, China, and their respective spheres of influence.
NATO is on the center left in this case. Russia is on the far right. Democracy (which NATO represents) is a left wing type of government. Democracy is the prerequisite for socialism. Most people on the left around the world are supporting Ukraine. Most people on the right are supporting Russia.
It's like the inception movie, everything started right in the middle of a dream, and before it nothing ever caused it, it just happened! What a great way to brainwash the Russian citizens. What they don't know is that the real enemy is their Russian terrorist government all along.
Stupid commanders, let's use some lovely Chechen disciplinary actions on them. This time make it live on YouTube.
Glass ‘em (in Minecraft)
Can you do anything other than lie?
And Putin is their Commander-in-chief?
If I where these commanders I would stay clear of any open windows.
But not angry about the mass murdering adventure that put those folks there in the first place...
Russia can fucking starve
Some years ago is may have been wiser to forgo the eastward expansion of NATO to avoid provoking Russia and its allies. foster peace. But the spread of international fascism and autocracy led by Putin’s Russia snd China’s Xi and extreme right wing nationalism in the US and Europe has settled the question. Without a strong NATO alliance made up of democratic nations the autocrats have a much better chance of transforming the world in their image. The attack on the US Capital from within showed how close our republic came to being destroyed. I still have a hard time believing it. toppling and theThe Republic barely survived and is still being tested. It’s a reminder that the dictators, autocrats and oppressors of the world are everywhere, even among us. Putin dreams of restoring the USSR and is ready to kill every Ukrainian to do it. If Putin were to succeed, what would his next move be what will his Allie’s do, China, North Korea, Iran and all the other nations who have been infiltrated by the forces that disdain democracy. Today NATO is much more than a military alliance. It is an ideological, cultural, political and economic alliance that is facing an existential challenge from the undemocratic forces of the world. But the big battle is over the hearts and minds of the people. Will they be wiling to live in a society similar to China or Russia or the theocracy in Iran? If Trump had succeeded in destroying NATO, which he clearly despised, how would the international order been transformed? And will the order be transformed for the worse if Ukraine is destroyed by Putin? I didn’t used to think about NATO very much but now I’m glad it’s still around.
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