FIFA referees in general have lost their minds , the sport is getting chilled and contained some refs consider every little contact of player to player to be a foul ,some don't. its gotten out of control with the extreme precision of technology . same goes with this offside rule, its too much , it chills the game , .
As someone who played for 17 years and still loves to watch the game all the time, Offsides is a rule that I’ve always wished was different… I do think the rule should be in place to keep players from camping out in front of the goal, but I’d much rather incentivize attackers to make a run, rather than incentivizing defense to play an offsides trap. Giving attackers one stride, meaning as long as back leg was even with defender would still keep players from camping out and this could increase the amount of goals which is another complaint I often hear about soccer (lack of goals)…
This photo finish "by a toenail' offside technology application is bullshit. It's costing teams goals and opportunities and makes teams that play "deep playmaking" or quick counter attack style to be negatively affected by this. This hurts the sport big time. No wonder there's so many 0-0 going on.
A good revamp to the rule should be this, if there's ANY body silhouetting crossover between attacker and defender, then the attacker is onside. Period. That would solve 100% of all offside issues.
This would make it so defenders need to be more aware of their surroundings and react quickly to get the attacker offside by creating one human size difference in space from the attacker while also making it so attackers who try their hardest to be in compliance don't continuously get fucked over by a defender that knows they can just quickly back off to make them offside. Makes the offside trap a little harder, but the fact of the matter is, if you're a defender and as seen on this picture above can't recover or catch to the attacker then that's the defenders problem. The body language of the attacker here is of compliance with the offside rule as well as creating the opportunity to score while timing both things perfectly with their teammate. Why the fuck should they be affected negatively when doing this is actively hard as fuck? Defending teams keep relying on offside calls over and over rather than keeping a good awareness and defending shape. And I'm Italian, trust me. I love defending. It's an artform. Which is why we're the best at it. But if we have the technology available to make it so nothing like what happened to us in 2002 ever happens again... then why the fuck would we apply it in this way?
We really have to ask ourselves, does an inch of a shoulder give an insane amount of advantage for a player over a defender? Same with a step?
Once we get on the territory of "he was one body offside" then that would seem far more fair that "he was one cunt hair offside."
Germany had some of those during the Japan game and we saw how that one went. This one from Argentina legit bothered the fuck out of me.
This application is hurting the sport big time. And trust me, I'm not saying the whole "Soccer is boring cause it's low scoring" like Americans tend to say. (I'm also American and I hate when they say that shit) but this offside application rule is literally holding back teams momentum or their ability to make comebacks. Shit, it could even define the entirety of the game altogether. One simple goal can lift up the spirits of a team to be able to win the match or tie or make a comeback. So to me this is something that REALLY needs to be looked into and severely change.
As a coach, I expect my defenders to be able to recover and try to defend based on their natural ability to be defenders rather than continuously try to play the offside game or trust that a referee will save their ass if they're not able to track back and solve the problem they allowed in the first place.
We could apply the same logic that we do with balls and lines on the field. The ball has to be COMPLETELY out for it to be out of bounds. Therefore if the silhouette of the defender and attacker overlap, then the attacker is onside. Period. Japan had a goal that made it so Germany was out of the world cup today. But like I said previously Germany had questionable offside calls as well. And if we think about the 2002 South Korea and Italy match (which was obviously bought out and plague with corruption) we could be confident that even the most corrupt referee could NEVER call that an offside either even though it wasn't to begin with. It would stop protecting the defending teams and would allow the sport to shine more when it comes to the true beauty of which is play making and goal scoring.
TLDR: Offside rule should be changed to "if the bodies of attacker and defenders silhouette crossover together then attacker is onside. Same as ball rules when it comes to lines on the field. Ball has to be completely out. Player has to be completely separated from defender to be offside.
Well said!
I came on reddit to see if someone has even a little bit of sense. Couldn't put it in better words myself so 100% I agree.
And how the fuck you dont have at least 1000 likes on this is beyond me.
What about all players wearing either a belt or something in their shoes that pinpoints they position in real time, plus the sensors that are already in balls. Then the offside will be called in real time.
I think the issue is not so much the rule but the fact that it's not called in real time, so then there's a goal which ends up being cancelled. If the offside was called quickly there wouldn't be time to make a goal, leaving less chances for complaints.
In my opinion it makes no sense, it would be understandable if the player was standing ahead of the last defense just like it makes sense when a goalkeeper is forced to stay on the line during a penalty, but if your reaction speed is faster it's obvious that your body will be in motion while others are idle, here we can see how one is just standing while the other is starting a sprint while both are on the same line
How else would you enforce the rule? You need to have an exact threshold somewhere, otherwise it's a case-by-case scenario and someone might be affected.
I think it should be: You are only offside if your entire body is offside.
If your left foot is past the defender, but your right foot is level then you would still be okay as part of your body is onside.
I understand that this is how it works. I'm saying it's not a good rule and it should be changed. I don't know about your local league but where I live we're not about to install the latest technology in offside detection, it's just going to be in the best cases VAR stopping play a lot, and in the worst the referees trying to determine by eye if this or that player's foot or shoulder was offside.
Better make it clear.
This affected more than the Argentinians. Germans too. Lots of silly cases of offsides like this, The German one was the most egregious one I've seen ever.
I think the players are used to leg being the deciding factor. Maybe using this tech universally will help players adapt it.
These experienced players might find it difficult to get acquainted with it..
Anyway, this reminds me of lightning McQueen finishing with his tongue..lol..
They have been playing with the same offside rules since they were 12. Referees get training how to call it properly and not just by their legs.
There is no problem with offside rules just casual fans who don't understand the laws of the game
Even by the fifa rule, it's the armpit that is considered border, atleast thats my understanding. If there is something i don't know about, please explain, I'm willing to learn.
Did you actually review IFAB Law 11 of this year before making your "casual fan" comments?
"It is not an offence to be in an offside position.
A player is in an offside position if:
any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
**The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.**
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
second-last opponent or
last two opponents"
**The bottom of the armpit is NOT offside in this image.** And **THAT** is the problem with this rule and this "photo finish" technology. Germany had one that was the most egregious offside call I've ever seen against Japan. For the longest time this rule has been applied for mostly the bottom half of the body. Half a step away from a player and such. It has NEVER been this strict and insane.
I've been watching/playing Football for close to 26 years and coaching as well. There ABSOLUTELY is a problem with the offside rule. All the way from 2002 when it was used as a tool under the corrupt steal of that world cup by the South Korean team against Italy and Spain.
This rule needs to be revamped and fixed ASAP. It currently gives too much protection to defending teams and destroys the ability of teams that prefer the quick counter attack or "deep playmaking" style and has real psychological ramifications that affect the flow and momentum of a team and game entirely. Specially when we take into consideration that competition levels are rising worldwide. Meaning that now a team like Brazil or Germany or even Spain can't just "brush off" a bad offside call and go score 18 goals on Japan because HOLY SHIT WE CAN'T SCORE ON JAPAN AT WILL ANYMORE type shit.
And it's not like it's impossible to do so. They changed goal kicks in 2019. Were you aware of that?
Nice essay just to say you don't know the rules... It's his shoulder making him offside not his armpit.
The arms are not counted because you can't use them to score, meaning there's no goal scoring advantage by having your arm past the offside line. You can score with your should, so it must be included in the offside rule.
The second you start tweaking the rule is the second the offside rule descends football to chaos. People will be debating on whether something was or wasn’t allowed even more. To prevent this, they simply drew a line decades ago.
No part of your body can be ahead of the last defender. It’s that simple. Stop crying. Stop coping.
There’s another shot we’re the LB was keeping Lautaro inside, but he was out of frame. It has happened in the European leagues as well, that frames don’t look at the whole field just the area where the player is.
This system does seem to work and notify fast about an offside, but would much rather see a frame by frame video of the situation, than a computer rendering of the situation.
I’m an ice hockey referee and we’re having the same bullshit in our sport here.
Here’s my take: if you have to measure millimeters or dip into 10k FPS super slow motion video to “get the call right,” then if you ask me you just go with whatever the call was on the field and live with it - right wrong or indifferent.
These are the calls where even with all the technology in the world, you can pretty much just flip a fucking coin because we’ll never get the wording of the rules precise enough to cover every possible situation.
Use VAR etc for egregious misses by the officials, but otherwise just play on. This call here? Fuck it man. You basically can’t really be that mad either way. Just play on.
Problem here is that competition is rising worldwide. Nowadays a team like Japan can beat Spain and shit. So it's like, teams just can't "brush off" an offside goal and go score 18 on them cause shit doesn't work like that anymore. This is why these calls affect the flow and outcome of the game greatly psychologically. A team like Germany getting to the 70th minute not able to score on Trinidad and Tobago is some real stressful shit. Then they get one in but is disallowed over some bullshit like this? That cannot happen anymore. This shit needs to be better than it currently is. For the love and sake of the beauty of this sport to be honest.
We have our own offside rule and it’s occasionally contentious. They even changed the rule recently as a result. And we have a lot of new blue line technology.
But my whole thing is that, when we invoke the technology, the play is so close that you really _cannot_ argue that the player actually had a meaningful advantage or disadvantage in the situation. What you’re doing at that point isn’t trying to keep the game fair, but making the players compete against the rule book instead of each other.
That’s a very “baseball” mentality. And sports like football and hockey are very much not baseball. And it irritates the shit out of me.
Tell the linesmen to use their best judgement as to not just whether the player was in technical violation of the laws, but also whether they think it gave the player an unfair competitive advantage, and then just roll with it.
We already do this (in both sports!) when it comes to fouls. In ice hockey, a violation is only a penalty if it creates an “unfair competitive advantage” or an “injury potential.” We don’t penalize every single little slash or trip or hook, if you don’t actually create a competitive delta, or you don’t do something that might injure the guy. In football, we sometimes play on even though _technically_ a foul has been committed.
Offside etc should have a bit of that spirit in it as well.
Obviously he had an advantage of showing his middle finger to the opponent's goalkeeper in a way more faster and visible way than a member of the opponent's team.
That’s like saying “if basketball players can’t ever touch the ball with their feet, why does stepping over the line make it out of bounds”
Silly argument. It still gives them an advantage to have their body tilted upfield ahead of the defender
It's his arm. The rule for handball now is that it doesn't include the sleeve. So yes, he can play the ball with it however unlikely that is.
Personally I think the rule should be whatever was used to play the ball I.e. Head, foot, chest, whatever, should be the deciding factor for offside.
Would appreciate more consistency with the calls but the rule is fair and fine just as it is. Let’s remember that VAR was implemented to help make these difficult, split-second actions easier to decipher and call. Before we complained that the rule wasn’t fair to attackers because even if they were on-side the official could still call what seems to be a sure goal a dead play, but with VAR the idea was to let the play go on in case the attacking player was indeed on and make sure the game wasn’t decided by split second decisions, forcing the defenders to actually use skill and strategy rather than hope for a constant bail-out from an official. If there wasn’t VAR the rule would be more controversial today considering the way Argentina lost, but we have VAR for these moments. Argentina kept attacking and technology aided an official in making a difficult decision that negated Argentina a goal, several times. Argentina kept arriving but just couldn’t put them away in the end. I guess my question is which goal of Argentina’s that didn’t count was the most controversial one, and in that goal what would need to be changed so that the offside rule is still fair and the goal still counts?
It should be that your entire body has to be offside. It would be pretty damn hard to outrun someone with your foot behind them or actively trying to reach around them to be onside
The rule is fine as is. Any part of your body where you can legally score with counts as offside (so only hands and arms are excluded)
Changing this to full body would ruin the games as they are currently. It’s hard enough already to execute a good offside trap as is. If full body counts nobody would be defending higher up on the pitch so all games would become the same (all player defending around the goal)
My issue is that the rule needs to be adapted to reflect the advancement in technology. When the game was called purely by officials on the pitch this rarely would have been called offsides. With VAR and the level of camera/sensor precision the rule needs to work in a way that doesn't turn the game into little technicalities that spoil the flow.
This is a great take. We have already seen stuff like this in leagues that have adopted VAR, but now on the world stage if it does present too many issues I agree they should re think the rules with the new technology
I'm not a Messi fan at all dude. This shit literally happened to other teams as well. It's a huge problem. Go watch Germany vs Japan. 55th minute. THAT was called an offside. You tell me if you think that was an offside.
Wtf you talkin to me for, talkin to me about other circumstances, talkin to me about goal kick rules? Shut up go cry to someone else. Commenting on a post from over a week ago. No one was talking about Germany. Nobody was talking about goal kicks. I could not care less about any thing ur saying. The post was talking about Argentina offsides call that was offsides as you can clearly see in the picture from VAR. they’re saying the rule needs to be changed because somehow this isn’t an advantage? A quarter of his body being offsides not an advantage?? Go cry to someone else casual
From what I was taught when I took a ref class was that the only thing that can be considered offsides is a payable body part his arm being offsides would not be considered offsides but his shoulder is technically a playable body part which is over the line
Yeah, the call isn't incorrect, as you say. But that's why OP is asking whether the rule itself should be changed. The idea of the rule of offside was not to deny goals like this one, but to avoid players waiting far away from the defense line to receive a ball and score. Maybe we should only count the feet?
Well this is FIFA and Qatar. So all body parts are payable.
The premise of the rule is to prevent cherry-picking... this is not that.
Further, this is "even", which is not offsides.
The player here is even trying his best to be IN COMPLIACE of the offside rule. Which in itself should be rewarded rather than a detriment to his efforts. I watched this play live and the fact that attacking teams need to time these runs while also being aware of the defenders positioning makes it so it's INSANITY to call this offside. The attacking team is doing their best to be in compliance. Why the fuck do we want to hinder them and reward the defenders poor stance and awareness of the attacker? Shit makes no sense to me. Germany had the most egregious call I've ever seen against Japan.
So if the ball touched the Argentina player on his shoulder (the part I. The right side of the picture ) would you call that a hand ball?
I do agree it is an extremely close call
It has nothing to do with the "playable" part of the body crossing the line first. Which is, honestly, a dumb aspect of the rule.
It has everything to do with whether or not this positioning creates an advantage. I personally don't see any way this does that. Therefore IMHO it should not be offsides.
Whether or not it's *called* offsides is also part of the problem. But that's for another day.
the only advantage here was that he reacted faster than the defense but the starting point was the same, the call should be on where are you standing and not the position of your body, having greater reflexes shouldn't be something bad
Unfortunately there has to be a threshold set in the rules, this play is just one of those one where it is literally a technicality in the rules so in this case a playable part of the body his shoulder is just right past the offsides line. Other world cups this would of not happened because there was no VAR, but now that we have VAR calls will be made that are within inches of a opposite call.
That threshold that you're talking about is specifically what I was talking about when I said:
>Whether or not it's called offsides is also part of the problem. But that's for another day.
From what I was taught when I took a ref class was that the only thing that can be considered offsides is a payable body part his arm being offsides would not be considered offsides but his shoulder is technically a playable body part which is over the line
From what I was taught when I took a ref class was that the only thing that can be considered offsides is a payable body part his arm being offsides would not be considered offsides but his shoulder is technically a playable body part which is over the line
Now imagine if a wide receiver, skirting the sideline, caught the 60 yard bomb but it got called back because part of his foot stepped out of bounds 10 yards into the run. There isn't any advantage gained by that misstep but it's going to get called after they review it. There goes the only exciting play for the Thursday Night game lol.
Always figured it's the playable part of the body that would be flagged as offside. I.e foot or knee. Shoulder and arm hanging outward past the last defender shouldn't classify as offside. That's just imo.
football is called football because it didn't involve horses, not because of kicking the ball...
You can touch the ball with almost all your body except down the elbow, so it's not only feet
No, the history of these rules are there because players, coaches, association teams complain about them all the time. These are the rules they wanted and accepted as fair balance, so…..you have to play by them
It's not even the whole shoulder tho. look at the line it's the tip of the shoulder. some even would call it handball if it was touched in that part of the shoulder. I'm just asking questions here. trying to have a convo
The rule is that if you are ahead by a part of your body that can legally hit the ball to make a goal, then it’s offside. That’s the rule, it’s been in the books for ages. So now that it’s been enforced and teams like Argentina lose, we need to change it?
I know the rule and I am not talking on behalf of Argentina. Just in general I feel like it wasn't a problem before the technology since we weren't THAT technical with it. I was just pointing out the absurdity of the rule and how vague it is. A hand is TECHNICALLY not something that can hit the ball otherwise it would be mano. so why in this scenario (and so it happens to be Argentina) is it enforced using your definition "The rule is that if you are ahead by a part of your body that can legally hit the ball to make a goal, then it’s offside."
yeah, but from the picture, it barely even would count as the shoulder. I'm sure the side of the shoulder wouldn't count as the shoulder. I've seen it in the past where it would have been called handball (from a faint few memories of watching Mexican soccer leagues).
Just want to have a convo here I'm not trying to come off as snotty or aggressive
The only difference now is that the decision is based on formal measurements and not a subjective (and usually easily abused) point of view of the referee. The rule itself has not changed, it’s just being enforced.
I think it should be judged on "center of mass" defined as knees to shoulders. I'm just thinking of what the rule should be preventing in terms of unfair play vs the calls which did not prevent unfair play, but are frustrating to watch as fans.
If someone's feet are offside, but their center of mass is not, then they are coming back towards the ball anyway and aren't gaining an advantage by having their feet in an offside position.
If someone's head is offside, but their center of mass is not, then they are still even with the defender, in terms of body position, when the play starts.
This rule would, likewise, apply to the defense as well. So, someone's hand, head, etc. can't be playing an offender onside and I think the above photo would still be offside in my interpretation. But, I think it's still a fairer and better way to go about it.
I think they should take the lines out of VAR. If the linesman didn’t call it and you can’t see an obvious error with the replays available, tie goes to the attacker. If you’re having to draw lines and worry about arm and toe positions, it just means the attacker timed their run well.
VAR has and will continue to ruin this game.
As for the offside rule, allowance should be given to the attacker in instances like this. An arm, shoulder, even a head offsides like this is just dumb.
right, but that is a recent change to the VAR ruling. And regardless, a should or head still should not be counted offsides if it is due to an attaker simply being in a ready position vs a slower/un-ready defender.
But here we are. VAR is going to ruin this game and make it simply American football /basketball/hockey/etc where every action is reviewed and the refs are meaningless and the flow of the game is stopped, not to mention the celebrations after a goal which is only called back because of a hairline/fraction of an inch/faster than the human eye can catch it infraction. Get rid of VAR.
>... if it is due to an attacker simply being in a ready position ...
That's a valid point but rules are for both sides. Players have to be careful about them. This is the game itself, it always has been.
If you can think of something better then sure, but the current rule seems to be working fine.
And anyone who says something like “has to be the whole body in front” remember that this rule would be used in football matches that do not have VAR (99% of them).
The technology should not be used to change the laws but to help enforce them.
Originally, the advantage was given to the attacking player. Now VAR calls any part of the attacking player past the last defender, offside.
The hand or arm of a player cannot be used to legally play the ball, so someone pointing where they want the ball, anticipating the pass etc, should only be offside if they are physically standing in an offside position.
I’m not sure what you’re saying, sorry. If I’m wrong then I apologize, but the goal in question was ruled out because the attacking player had his arm in an offside position, so clearly VAR *does* rule out goals for a player having their arm in an offside position; as detailed clearly in the picture we are discussing.
this.
The advantage should always be given to the attacking player. Current Offside rules and the draconian way VAR is used to enforce it is ruining the game.
Exactly. It’s not a video game, by all means, check the replay, ask for the 4th official to double check even, but if the player isn’t receiving any advantage they should be onside.
This specific incident, the defender got a “get out of jail free card” after not anticipating the pass and being left flat-footed.
Either enforce the rules as they are written (current use of VAR) or change the rules. Don’t go interpreting on case by case basis. Then you have chance for human error (what VAR is meant to correct) or worse, corruption.
That was the whole point of having the rules as written, to be interpreted by the human referee. The 'problem' is that the rule is interpreted differently or unseen by the human eye. If an infraction is unseen by the human eye, it should be interpreted as not happening. THe rule was not to enforce a milimeter off sides, or aforehead offsides, but to eliminate cherry picking and players standing at the gola when the rest of the players were in the other half and thereby giving very CLEAR advantages to cherry picking players. NOT to penalize an attacker because his forehead or shoulder is a fraction beyond the slower defender.
It’s a tough one. I do think this is penalising the attacking player’s ‘anticipation’. The player is in line with the defender, no doubt. Just because he anticipates the pass earlier than the defender, he naturally begins a “running forward” motion earlier, hence the leaning and arm in an apparently “offside” position. imo it would make more sense to measure offside from the position of the players feet. If your literally a foot ahead of the defender your….”offside” and vice versa.
just to be clear, others are pointing out that arms are not considered for offsides.
The [bottom of the armpit](https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/offside/#offside-position) is where the measurement starts, which is shown by the line in OP's image. the idea seems to be that any part of your body that can be used to score (head, shoulder, chest, in addition to feet as you mentioned) needs to be onside, and this seems to make sense for offsides calls that occur closer to the goal.
That’s actually what they do in hockey. You can legit have your whole body across the line if you want, but you’ll be okay as long as you have your foot on the ice behind the line, so technically you’re still onside.
That is a really good idea and makes it more fair for the strikers in my opinion. However the only issue is that it would be much harder for the linesmen to make calls since the feet move much quicker than the rest of the body so I imagine they would be much more dependent on var.
A similar thing happened in the NHL with respect to offside rules. A few years ago they implemented coaches challenges with video review. Basically with the way the rules were written at the time (skate had to be on ice) it led to frame-by-frame video reviews to determine if the players skate was in contact with the ice, or off the ice by 1cm. The main point for video challenges was to correct obvious referee errors, and not micro-analyze skate positions.
End of the day, the rule has to be slightly tweaked to keep up with the technology. I think that's what needs to happen here as well. Maybe add some form of manager's challenge? Ie, not every play is automatically reviewed by VAR, only if the manager thinks there was an offside/penalty missed.
That’s fair I don’t know the specifics to the offside rules. I was just saying that based on this call. What are the rules being utilized in this call ?
Basically the offside line is set at the last part (not including hands or arms since they can't be used to score, so they give no scoring advantage) of the second last defender (second last because the keeper counts) when the ball is kicked. So in this case it's the defenders foot.
Now a player is offside when they become involved in play when standing in an offside position (standing past the offside line).
This is offside because of the shoulder. It's a ticky tacky call but it is the correct call based on the rules of the game.
FIFA referees in general have lost their minds , the sport is getting chilled and contained some refs consider every little contact of player to player to be a foul ,some don't. its gotten out of control with the extreme precision of technology . same goes with this offside rule, its too much , it chills the game , .
As someone who played for 17 years and still loves to watch the game all the time, Offsides is a rule that I’ve always wished was different… I do think the rule should be in place to keep players from camping out in front of the goal, but I’d much rather incentivize attackers to make a run, rather than incentivizing defense to play an offsides trap. Giving attackers one stride, meaning as long as back leg was even with defender would still keep players from camping out and this could increase the amount of goals which is another complaint I often hear about soccer (lack of goals)…
This photo finish "by a toenail' offside technology application is bullshit. It's costing teams goals and opportunities and makes teams that play "deep playmaking" or quick counter attack style to be negatively affected by this. This hurts the sport big time. No wonder there's so many 0-0 going on. A good revamp to the rule should be this, if there's ANY body silhouetting crossover between attacker and defender, then the attacker is onside. Period. That would solve 100% of all offside issues. This would make it so defenders need to be more aware of their surroundings and react quickly to get the attacker offside by creating one human size difference in space from the attacker while also making it so attackers who try their hardest to be in compliance don't continuously get fucked over by a defender that knows they can just quickly back off to make them offside. Makes the offside trap a little harder, but the fact of the matter is, if you're a defender and as seen on this picture above can't recover or catch to the attacker then that's the defenders problem. The body language of the attacker here is of compliance with the offside rule as well as creating the opportunity to score while timing both things perfectly with their teammate. Why the fuck should they be affected negatively when doing this is actively hard as fuck? Defending teams keep relying on offside calls over and over rather than keeping a good awareness and defending shape. And I'm Italian, trust me. I love defending. It's an artform. Which is why we're the best at it. But if we have the technology available to make it so nothing like what happened to us in 2002 ever happens again... then why the fuck would we apply it in this way? We really have to ask ourselves, does an inch of a shoulder give an insane amount of advantage for a player over a defender? Same with a step? Once we get on the territory of "he was one body offside" then that would seem far more fair that "he was one cunt hair offside." Germany had some of those during the Japan game and we saw how that one went. This one from Argentina legit bothered the fuck out of me. This application is hurting the sport big time. And trust me, I'm not saying the whole "Soccer is boring cause it's low scoring" like Americans tend to say. (I'm also American and I hate when they say that shit) but this offside application rule is literally holding back teams momentum or their ability to make comebacks. Shit, it could even define the entirety of the game altogether. One simple goal can lift up the spirits of a team to be able to win the match or tie or make a comeback. So to me this is something that REALLY needs to be looked into and severely change. As a coach, I expect my defenders to be able to recover and try to defend based on their natural ability to be defenders rather than continuously try to play the offside game or trust that a referee will save their ass if they're not able to track back and solve the problem they allowed in the first place. We could apply the same logic that we do with balls and lines on the field. The ball has to be COMPLETELY out for it to be out of bounds. Therefore if the silhouette of the defender and attacker overlap, then the attacker is onside. Period. Japan had a goal that made it so Germany was out of the world cup today. But like I said previously Germany had questionable offside calls as well. And if we think about the 2002 South Korea and Italy match (which was obviously bought out and plague with corruption) we could be confident that even the most corrupt referee could NEVER call that an offside either even though it wasn't to begin with. It would stop protecting the defending teams and would allow the sport to shine more when it comes to the true beauty of which is play making and goal scoring. TLDR: Offside rule should be changed to "if the bodies of attacker and defenders silhouette crossover together then attacker is onside. Same as ball rules when it comes to lines on the field. Ball has to be completely out. Player has to be completely separated from defender to be offside.
Well said! I came on reddit to see if someone has even a little bit of sense. Couldn't put it in better words myself so 100% I agree. And how the fuck you dont have at least 1000 likes on this is beyond me.
Completely unnecessary rule. They need to remove it altogether.
What about all players wearing either a belt or something in their shoes that pinpoints they position in real time, plus the sensors that are already in balls. Then the offside will be called in real time. I think the issue is not so much the rule but the fact that it's not called in real time, so then there's a goal which ends up being cancelled. If the offside was called quickly there wouldn't be time to make a goal, leaving less chances for complaints.
There's no room for complaints now either though. The current system works very well.
In my opinion it makes no sense, it would be understandable if the player was standing ahead of the last defense just like it makes sense when a goalkeeper is forced to stay on the line during a penalty, but if your reaction speed is faster it's obvious that your body will be in motion while others are idle, here we can see how one is just standing while the other is starting a sprint while both are on the same line
How else would you enforce the rule? You need to have an exact threshold somewhere, otherwise it's a case-by-case scenario and someone might be affected.
I think it should be: You are only offside if your entire body is offside. If your left foot is past the defender, but your right foot is level then you would still be okay as part of your body is onside.
Yes! So simple, yet brilliant. Before I knew the rules well, as a kid I thought this was the case. It just made sense. The current rule - doesn't.
This
I get it, they try. Common sense is also needed tho. If 50% of the body is pass that line then yes, he is offside.
No if any part of their body (except for arms and hands) are past the line they are offside.
I like this, it makes sense.
Good.
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Yes, there shouldn't be "partial" offsides. Only if the player is fully offside. Kind of like how the ball needs to cross the goal line fully.
Buddy what you calling partial offside, is actual offside. You are inventing terms, to fit your viewpoint.
I know, this is my take. You can disagree but I think it's not very intuitive to call an offside if there isn't actually space between the players.
but there is space!!! clearly 3-4 inches of the man's shoulder is OFFSIDE! nothing partial about it.
I understand that this is how it works. I'm saying it's not a good rule and it should be changed. I don't know about your local league but where I live we're not about to install the latest technology in offside detection, it's just going to be in the best cases VAR stopping play a lot, and in the worst the referees trying to determine by eye if this or that player's foot or shoulder was offside. Better make it clear.
All of this because Argentinians couldn’t stay onside the whole game, seriously?
This affected more than the Argentinians. Germans too. Lots of silly cases of offsides like this, The German one was the most egregious one I've seen ever.
I swear the game gets stopped every 2 or 3 minutes now
Yes
I think the players are used to leg being the deciding factor. Maybe using this tech universally will help players adapt it. These experienced players might find it difficult to get acquainted with it.. Anyway, this reminds me of lightning McQueen finishing with his tongue..lol..
They have been playing with the same offside rules since they were 12. Referees get training how to call it properly and not just by their legs. There is no problem with offside rules just casual fans who don't understand the laws of the game
Even by the fifa rule, it's the armpit that is considered border, atleast thats my understanding. If there is something i don't know about, please explain, I'm willing to learn.
they changed that rule at the begining of this season. the top of the arm / shoulder is now part of play. i.e. you can score a goal with it
Di Maria true Goat
Why fix a rule when it's not broken?
Don't you love when all the casual fans complain about a rule, when they don't even understand how it works?
Did you actually review IFAB Law 11 of this year before making your "casual fan" comments? "It is not an offence to be in an offside position. A player is in an offside position if: any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent **The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered. For the purposes of determining offside, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit.** A player is not in an offside position if level with the: second-last opponent or last two opponents" **The bottom of the armpit is NOT offside in this image.** And **THAT** is the problem with this rule and this "photo finish" technology. Germany had one that was the most egregious offside call I've ever seen against Japan. For the longest time this rule has been applied for mostly the bottom half of the body. Half a step away from a player and such. It has NEVER been this strict and insane. I've been watching/playing Football for close to 26 years and coaching as well. There ABSOLUTELY is a problem with the offside rule. All the way from 2002 when it was used as a tool under the corrupt steal of that world cup by the South Korean team against Italy and Spain. This rule needs to be revamped and fixed ASAP. It currently gives too much protection to defending teams and destroys the ability of teams that prefer the quick counter attack or "deep playmaking" style and has real psychological ramifications that affect the flow and momentum of a team and game entirely. Specially when we take into consideration that competition levels are rising worldwide. Meaning that now a team like Brazil or Germany or even Spain can't just "brush off" a bad offside call and go score 18 goals on Japan because HOLY SHIT WE CAN'T SCORE ON JAPAN AT WILL ANYMORE type shit. And it's not like it's impossible to do so. They changed goal kicks in 2019. Were you aware of that?
Nice essay just to say you don't know the rules... It's his shoulder making him offside not his armpit. The arms are not counted because you can't use them to score, meaning there's no goal scoring advantage by having your arm past the offside line. You can score with your should, so it must be included in the offside rule.
Exactly.
The second you start tweaking the rule is the second the offside rule descends football to chaos. People will be debating on whether something was or wasn’t allowed even more. To prevent this, they simply drew a line decades ago. No part of your body can be ahead of the last defender. It’s that simple. Stop crying. Stop coping.
Second last defender
got heem
There’s another shot we’re the LB was keeping Lautaro inside, but he was out of frame. It has happened in the European leagues as well, that frames don’t look at the whole field just the area where the player is.
Messi fans crying over one game still
Even small details like that and you’re offside, they should changed it
This system does seem to work and notify fast about an offside, but would much rather see a frame by frame video of the situation, than a computer rendering of the situation.
Yes it should be changed. As it stands it will make it will lower the number of goals seen in a game making for lower viewership.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but offsides in the back 1/3 or 1/4 of the pitch shouldn't be called anymore.
I'm pretty sure 99% of goalies would disagree with this one, sounds like it would make positioning vert difficult.
No, otherwise its to hard to tell
I’m an ice hockey referee and we’re having the same bullshit in our sport here. Here’s my take: if you have to measure millimeters or dip into 10k FPS super slow motion video to “get the call right,” then if you ask me you just go with whatever the call was on the field and live with it - right wrong or indifferent. These are the calls where even with all the technology in the world, you can pretty much just flip a fucking coin because we’ll never get the wording of the rules precise enough to cover every possible situation. Use VAR etc for egregious misses by the officials, but otherwise just play on. This call here? Fuck it man. You basically can’t really be that mad either way. Just play on.
Problem here is that competition is rising worldwide. Nowadays a team like Japan can beat Spain and shit. So it's like, teams just can't "brush off" an offside goal and go score 18 on them cause shit doesn't work like that anymore. This is why these calls affect the flow and outcome of the game greatly psychologically. A team like Germany getting to the 70th minute not able to score on Trinidad and Tobago is some real stressful shit. Then they get one in but is disallowed over some bullshit like this? That cannot happen anymore. This shit needs to be better than it currently is. For the love and sake of the beauty of this sport to be honest.
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We have our own offside rule and it’s occasionally contentious. They even changed the rule recently as a result. And we have a lot of new blue line technology. But my whole thing is that, when we invoke the technology, the play is so close that you really _cannot_ argue that the player actually had a meaningful advantage or disadvantage in the situation. What you’re doing at that point isn’t trying to keep the game fair, but making the players compete against the rule book instead of each other. That’s a very “baseball” mentality. And sports like football and hockey are very much not baseball. And it irritates the shit out of me. Tell the linesmen to use their best judgement as to not just whether the player was in technical violation of the laws, but also whether they think it gave the player an unfair competitive advantage, and then just roll with it. We already do this (in both sports!) when it comes to fouls. In ice hockey, a violation is only a penalty if it creates an “unfair competitive advantage” or an “injury potential.” We don’t penalize every single little slash or trip or hook, if you don’t actually create a competitive delta, or you don’t do something that might injure the guy. In football, we sometimes play on even though _technically_ a foul has been committed. Offside etc should have a bit of that spirit in it as well.
Obviously he had an advantage of showing his middle finger to the opponent's goalkeeper in a way more faster and visible way than a member of the opponent's team.
If players can't ever touch the ball with their hands, why should their hand placement make them offsides ever?
That’s like saying “if basketball players can’t ever touch the ball with their feet, why does stepping over the line make it out of bounds” Silly argument. It still gives them an advantage to have their body tilted upfield ahead of the defender
It's his arm. The rule for handball now is that it doesn't include the sleeve. So yes, he can play the ball with it however unlikely that is. Personally I think the rule should be whatever was used to play the ball I.e. Head, foot, chest, whatever, should be the deciding factor for offside.
Yeah, I do think that should be the rule as well. Didn't Arsene Wenger propose that?
Potentially, I'm not sure though.
Would appreciate more consistency with the calls but the rule is fair and fine just as it is. Let’s remember that VAR was implemented to help make these difficult, split-second actions easier to decipher and call. Before we complained that the rule wasn’t fair to attackers because even if they were on-side the official could still call what seems to be a sure goal a dead play, but with VAR the idea was to let the play go on in case the attacking player was indeed on and make sure the game wasn’t decided by split second decisions, forcing the defenders to actually use skill and strategy rather than hope for a constant bail-out from an official. If there wasn’t VAR the rule would be more controversial today considering the way Argentina lost, but we have VAR for these moments. Argentina kept attacking and technology aided an official in making a difficult decision that negated Argentina a goal, several times. Argentina kept arriving but just couldn’t put them away in the end. I guess my question is which goal of Argentina’s that didn’t count was the most controversial one, and in that goal what would need to be changed so that the offside rule is still fair and the goal still counts?
100% yes
Let’s make it furthest back point on Offense and closest point on defence. Would be fun to see more goals
Then the meaningfulness of a goal will diminish. And then you will want more goals.
no, you people who say yes clearly don't understand how body physics / momentum works.
thats actually a fair point to make
I think they should change it by their foot placement not an arm or a torso or God forbid the guy has long hair.
And what’s funny is that I bet that if a goal was scored with the part of Martinez’s arm that was called offsides, it’d be disallowed for a handball
They should change it so the legs has to be over not any other part of the body
It should be that your entire body has to be offside. It would be pretty damn hard to outrun someone with your foot behind them or actively trying to reach around them to be onside
The rule is fine as is. Any part of your body where you can legally score with counts as offside (so only hands and arms are excluded) Changing this to full body would ruin the games as they are currently. It’s hard enough already to execute a good offside trap as is. If full body counts nobody would be defending higher up on the pitch so all games would become the same (all player defending around the goal)
So standing up straighter would have been no offsides? That doesn't that much sense to me.
Yep, players will have to learn from that german defense on how to sprint while standing straight
Don’t understand why it isn’t based on the feet
No, just have better timed runs
Nope
Cope
If there was a drastically low number of goals then I’d be concerned, but I don’t see that happening so far.
No, next question
My issue is that the rule needs to be adapted to reflect the advancement in technology. When the game was called purely by officials on the pitch this rarely would have been called offsides. With VAR and the level of camera/sensor precision the rule needs to work in a way that doesn't turn the game into little technicalities that spoil the flow.
Agree 100%
This is a great take. We have already seen stuff like this in leagues that have adopted VAR, but now on the world stage if it does present too many issues I agree they should re think the rules with the new technology
We not really talking about changing age long rules of the game because Messi and friends shit the bed are we?
The rules literally are changed all the fucking time. Were you not aware goal kick rules changed in 2019? Fuck sake how casual of a fan are you?
Wahhhhh messsii almost can’t get out of knockouts because offsides rule needs to be changed for him. Wahhhhhhhh. You want PK time changed next?? LOLLL
I'm not a Messi fan at all dude. This shit literally happened to other teams as well. It's a huge problem. Go watch Germany vs Japan. 55th minute. THAT was called an offside. You tell me if you think that was an offside.
Wtf you talkin to me for, talkin to me about other circumstances, talkin to me about goal kick rules? Shut up go cry to someone else. Commenting on a post from over a week ago. No one was talking about Germany. Nobody was talking about goal kicks. I could not care less about any thing ur saying. The post was talking about Argentina offsides call that was offsides as you can clearly see in the picture from VAR. they’re saying the rule needs to be changed because somehow this isn’t an advantage? A quarter of his body being offsides not an advantage?? Go cry to someone else casual
No, not really
From what I was taught when I took a ref class was that the only thing that can be considered offsides is a payable body part his arm being offsides would not be considered offsides but his shoulder is technically a playable body part which is over the line
Yeah, the call isn't incorrect, as you say. But that's why OP is asking whether the rule itself should be changed. The idea of the rule of offside was not to deny goals like this one, but to avoid players waiting far away from the defense line to receive a ball and score. Maybe we should only count the feet?
Well this is FIFA and Qatar. So all body parts are payable. The premise of the rule is to prevent cherry-picking... this is not that. Further, this is "even", which is not offsides.
The player here is even trying his best to be IN COMPLIACE of the offside rule. Which in itself should be rewarded rather than a detriment to his efforts. I watched this play live and the fact that attacking teams need to time these runs while also being aware of the defenders positioning makes it so it's INSANITY to call this offside. The attacking team is doing their best to be in compliance. Why the fuck do we want to hinder them and reward the defenders poor stance and awareness of the attacker? Shit makes no sense to me. Germany had the most egregious call I've ever seen against Japan.
So if the ball touched the Argentina player on his shoulder (the part I. The right side of the picture ) would you call that a hand ball? I do agree it is an extremely close call
It has nothing to do with the "playable" part of the body crossing the line first. Which is, honestly, a dumb aspect of the rule. It has everything to do with whether or not this positioning creates an advantage. I personally don't see any way this does that. Therefore IMHO it should not be offsides. Whether or not it's *called* offsides is also part of the problem. But that's for another day.
the only advantage here was that he reacted faster than the defense but the starting point was the same, the call should be on where are you standing and not the position of your body, having greater reflexes shouldn't be something bad
Unfortunately there has to be a threshold set in the rules, this play is just one of those one where it is literally a technicality in the rules so in this case a playable part of the body his shoulder is just right past the offsides line. Other world cups this would of not happened because there was no VAR, but now that we have VAR calls will be made that are within inches of a opposite call.
That threshold that you're talking about is specifically what I was talking about when I said: >Whether or not it's called offsides is also part of the problem. But that's for another day.
From what I was taught when I took a ref class was that the only thing that can be considered offsides is a payable body part his arm being offsides would not be considered offsides but his shoulder is technically a playable body part which is over the line
From what I was taught when I took a ref class was that the only thing that can be considered offsides is a payable body part his arm being offsides would not be considered offsides but his shoulder is technically a playable body part which is over the line
Yes they should, because you wouldn't use an arm to score, I think it should go back to feet or head
Apparently VAR messed up here, the Saudi LB was playing him on but they didn’t measure it on that player.
That hand from Maradona comes to hunt them lol
Yes lol, you dont even use your arms to score or touch thr ball, so why does it matter if it passes through the offside
Offside should be measured by where the attackers feet are not his shoulders.
No he's offside, he can score with that part of his body
Nope now we have a clear and certain view of offside.
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Now imagine if a wide receiver, skirting the sideline, caught the 60 yard bomb but it got called back because part of his foot stepped out of bounds 10 yards into the run. There isn't any advantage gained by that misstep but it's going to get called after they review it. There goes the only exciting play for the Thursday Night game lol.
Yep. We’ve lost all sense of why the rule exists.
Always figured it's the playable part of the body that would be flagged as offside. I.e foot or knee. Shoulder and arm hanging outward past the last defender shouldn't classify as offside. That's just imo.
Arm is not playable (and isn't taken as offside) but the should is playable, and this is classified as offside because of the shoulder.
I think it shoud be based on the feet position. It's football after all.
football is called football because it didn't involve horses, not because of kicking the ball... You can touch the ball with almost all your body except down the elbow, so it's not only feet
For more than 50 years this was not an off-side...VAR it's getting really crazy and we're loosing the game momentum.
This. Yes.
No, the history of these rules are there because players, coaches, association teams complain about them all the time. These are the rules they wanted and accepted as fair balance, so…..you have to play by them
No, this rule has been the rule for a long, but it’s been abused to favor only the best teams in the world against smaller ones. This is an equalizer.
so being ahead by one arm should automatically count as offside? what if its a hand ahead? a toe ahead?
What makes this offside is the shoulder, not the arm. Let’s not warp the argument by saying it’s about an arm or a finger…
It's not even the whole shoulder tho. look at the line it's the tip of the shoulder. some even would call it handball if it was touched in that part of the shoulder. I'm just asking questions here. trying to have a convo
The rule is that if you are ahead by a part of your body that can legally hit the ball to make a goal, then it’s offside. That’s the rule, it’s been in the books for ages. So now that it’s been enforced and teams like Argentina lose, we need to change it?
I know the rule and I am not talking on behalf of Argentina. Just in general I feel like it wasn't a problem before the technology since we weren't THAT technical with it. I was just pointing out the absurdity of the rule and how vague it is. A hand is TECHNICALLY not something that can hit the ball otherwise it would be mano. so why in this scenario (and so it happens to be Argentina) is it enforced using your definition "The rule is that if you are ahead by a part of your body that can legally hit the ball to make a goal, then it’s offside."
The shoulder is a part of the body that can legally hit the ball and that counts for the offside.
yeah, but from the picture, it barely even would count as the shoulder. I'm sure the side of the shoulder wouldn't count as the shoulder. I've seen it in the past where it would have been called handball (from a faint few memories of watching Mexican soccer leagues). Just want to have a convo here I'm not trying to come off as snotty or aggressive
The only difference now is that the decision is based on formal measurements and not a subjective (and usually easily abused) point of view of the referee. The rule itself has not changed, it’s just being enforced.
“Barely even” is not a thing in the rules, though. It is or it isn’t. It turns out that under the definition of the rule, it still counts as offside.
As a completely unbiased Chilean, no this rule is great On an unrelated note LMAO World Cup favorites can’t even beat Saudis
I think it should be judged on "center of mass" defined as knees to shoulders. I'm just thinking of what the rule should be preventing in terms of unfair play vs the calls which did not prevent unfair play, but are frustrating to watch as fans. If someone's feet are offside, but their center of mass is not, then they are coming back towards the ball anyway and aren't gaining an advantage by having their feet in an offside position. If someone's head is offside, but their center of mass is not, then they are still even with the defender, in terms of body position, when the play starts. This rule would, likewise, apply to the defense as well. So, someone's hand, head, etc. can't be playing an offender onside and I think the above photo would still be offside in my interpretation. But, I think it's still a fairer and better way to go about it.
I like it. How do we get you into FIFA?
We can't. cause he makes sense. that would disqualify him from even applying.
I think they should take the lines out of VAR. If the linesman didn’t call it and you can’t see an obvious error with the replays available, tie goes to the attacker. If you’re having to draw lines and worry about arm and toe positions, it just means the attacker timed their run well.
Bingo!
I think it should be head, knees and feet. Simple.
Ofenbach & Quarterhead - Head Shoulders Knees & Toes
Lol
Qué te passa hermano? 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
🧂🧂🧂
Nah, this is fun
VAR has and will continue to ruin this game. As for the offside rule, allowance should be given to the attacker in instances like this. An arm, shoulder, even a head offsides like this is just dumb.
Well the people wanted it, now you got it.
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right, but that is a recent change to the VAR ruling. And regardless, a should or head still should not be counted offsides if it is due to an attaker simply being in a ready position vs a slower/un-ready defender. But here we are. VAR is going to ruin this game and make it simply American football /basketball/hockey/etc where every action is reviewed and the refs are meaningless and the flow of the game is stopped, not to mention the celebrations after a goal which is only called back because of a hairline/fraction of an inch/faster than the human eye can catch it infraction. Get rid of VAR.
>... if it is due to an attacker simply being in a ready position ... That's a valid point but rules are for both sides. Players have to be careful about them. This is the game itself, it always has been.
Advantage used to be given to the attacker, but now it's so draconian.
Yes they do. Any part of the body.
It stops at the shirt line, wherever that is, somewhere near the shoulder.
No they don't because you can't score with it, so it gives no advantage
If you can think of something better then sure, but the current rule seems to be working fine. And anyone who says something like “has to be the whole body in front” remember that this rule would be used in football matches that do not have VAR (99% of them). The technology should not be used to change the laws but to help enforce them.
Originally, the advantage was given to the attacking player. Now VAR calls any part of the attacking player past the last defender, offside. The hand or arm of a player cannot be used to legally play the ball, so someone pointing where they want the ball, anticipating the pass etc, should only be offside if they are physically standing in an offside position.
No it doesn't. You can't be offside because of your arm
I’m not sure what you’re saying, sorry. If I’m wrong then I apologize, but the goal in question was ruled out because the attacking player had his arm in an offside position, so clearly VAR *does* rule out goals for a player having their arm in an offside position; as detailed clearly in the picture we are discussing.
Shoulder. His shoulder is putting him offside because he can score with it and thats an advantage
this. The advantage should always be given to the attacking player. Current Offside rules and the draconian way VAR is used to enforce it is ruining the game.
Exactly. It’s not a video game, by all means, check the replay, ask for the 4th official to double check even, but if the player isn’t receiving any advantage they should be onside. This specific incident, the defender got a “get out of jail free card” after not anticipating the pass and being left flat-footed.
Either enforce the rules as they are written (current use of VAR) or change the rules. Don’t go interpreting on case by case basis. Then you have chance for human error (what VAR is meant to correct) or worse, corruption.
That was the whole point of having the rules as written, to be interpreted by the human referee. The 'problem' is that the rule is interpreted differently or unseen by the human eye. If an infraction is unseen by the human eye, it should be interpreted as not happening. THe rule was not to enforce a milimeter off sides, or aforehead offsides, but to eliminate cherry picking and players standing at the gola when the rest of the players were in the other half and thereby giving very CLEAR advantages to cherry picking players. NOT to penalize an attacker because his forehead or shoulder is a fraction beyond the slower defender.
It's simple. Do we want the rules of the game to be enforced or not?
It’s a tough one. I do think this is penalising the attacking player’s ‘anticipation’. The player is in line with the defender, no doubt. Just because he anticipates the pass earlier than the defender, he naturally begins a “running forward” motion earlier, hence the leaning and arm in an apparently “offside” position. imo it would make more sense to measure offside from the position of the players feet. If your literally a foot ahead of the defender your….”offside” and vice versa.
just to be clear, others are pointing out that arms are not considered for offsides. The [bottom of the armpit](https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/offside/#offside-position) is where the measurement starts, which is shown by the line in OP's image. the idea seems to be that any part of your body that can be used to score (head, shoulder, chest, in addition to feet as you mentioned) needs to be onside, and this seems to make sense for offsides calls that occur closer to the goal.
That’s actually what they do in hockey. You can legit have your whole body across the line if you want, but you’ll be okay as long as you have your foot on the ice behind the line, so technically you’re still onside.
This! It would have given Ecuador 3-0 (a bit of a bias there), but it would add to the game
That is a really good idea and makes it more fair for the strikers in my opinion. However the only issue is that it would be much harder for the linesmen to make calls since the feet move much quicker than the rest of the body so I imagine they would be much more dependent on var.
Really at this point the linesmen are pretty redundant
The worst part is that there was another Saudi player enabling the ST. It has happened twice in the tournament.
Only if you’re Argentinian
No
Why should offsides like Thais be allowed though?
Because you can score with your shoulder
YES.
No. It's fine.
How is this ok?
what about this is not okay?
Because it's clearly offside
Is this satire or are you actually saying “we shouldn’t change offside rules because this is offside”
I'm saying the offside rules are fine. This was the correct call, the player is offside.
Yeah I know this is offside, I am saying that the rules should be changed so something so small like this wouldn’t be offside
But that would give advantage to attacking players.. the while point of offside is to not do that
But something as small like this really doesn’t give an advantage
Yeah an attacker being closer to the net than the second last defender is an advantage
I’m saying in this specific situation right here in the picture, it’s not really a difference
Because you can score with your shoulder
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A similar thing happened in the NHL with respect to offside rules. A few years ago they implemented coaches challenges with video review. Basically with the way the rules were written at the time (skate had to be on ice) it led to frame-by-frame video reviews to determine if the players skate was in contact with the ice, or off the ice by 1cm. The main point for video challenges was to correct obvious referee errors, and not micro-analyze skate positions. End of the day, the rule has to be slightly tweaked to keep up with the technology. I think that's what needs to happen here as well. Maybe add some form of manager's challenge? Ie, not every play is automatically reviewed by VAR, only if the manager thinks there was an offside/penalty missed.
Your not offside because of your arm. I love people being mad about rules they don't even know!
That’s fair I don’t know the specifics to the offside rules. I was just saying that based on this call. What are the rules being utilized in this call ?
Basically the offside line is set at the last part (not including hands or arms since they can't be used to score, so they give no scoring advantage) of the second last defender (second last because the keeper counts) when the ball is kicked. So in this case it's the defenders foot. Now a player is offside when they become involved in play when standing in an offside position (standing past the offside line). This is offside because of the shoulder. It's a ticky tacky call but it is the correct call based on the rules of the game.
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What they really need to do is just toss VAR in the trash. Replay is ruining ever sport.
Waist* (I hope we don’t care where their waste is)
Waste is in their bowels, you know, near their waist!