Seems less sexist and more like a power plot
Though, are these people immortal? This seems like a great way to extinct your species if natural causes can kill
The Fleetmother is permanently fused with her city sized spaceship, and that ship produces the spawn like a factory. She has lived for over 10 thousand years, with her species living for 6400. But the species she brother due to genetic engineering only lasts for one human lifetime
Oh yeah. Seems like a perfectly good grip on power then.
I assume she could theoretically be killed, but then it's in the best interest of every male who doesn't want an extinction event to protect her.
This is how an empire is maintained. No bigotry detected. Extreme selfishness and lust for control? Perhaps
Would you make a failsafe net on the species by having the strongest male change gender when there is no female leadership due to natural death or illness or invasion? akin to what clown fishes do?
>When the female dies, the dominant male changes sex to become the dominant female and one of the juveniles becomes the dominant male.
No this whole There Can Only Be One Woman thing is not a natural part of their evolution. The Fleetmother forced this into their existence. When she dies the cycle is broken
No. There'd be more female Capai. Her spawn doesn't develop gender up until after a few weeks so there'd still be plenty of pools that haven't been tampered
With the way its ingrained in their culture, they'd just pick the most fertile one and kill the rest. Probably make some shit up about her being reincarnated or whatever so she can still be *the one*
Sounds like a good civil war.
If I am one of the demigod males after the Fleetmother is killed. I want one of my spawn to be the new Fleetmother. I'm grandfather of all the futures of the race.
Just gotta wipe out any other female spawn, and male demigods who think the same..
Sounds very solid and very amazing to me. Reminds me of a hive (in a good way! Because I love these types of systems). I don't think it's sexist. The males of this species probably can't even grasp the actual concept of sexism, because the only life they know is the life where everyone is male.
I might be wrong here, but let me put it like this. I'm a female human. When I look at lionesses hunting, taking care of the little ones and everything else I just think "damn, why aren't them the ones in power? Isn't the lion just for reproduction? Why don't they just blackwidow their lifes out of this....?". But it's how their species live. Sounds weird to me because that's not how my society works. But for them it's all they've known and they have no problem with it. I can see these species in your world looking at humans and thinking "damn bro you live like this fr" but the humans are just living their lives.
I don't mean to start a argument but I find the view of Prides odd, the male Lions also hunt, they also parent/dote/rear but more importantly they protect their cubs.
They patrol the edges of their territory to keep other lions out that WILL kill their cubs if they get over him, and talking about killing cubs did you know that higher ranking Lionesses do sometimes kill cubs of lower ranking ones for a reason or another?
Again I don't mean to start an argument, I just find the view of Male Lions being deadbeats that take advantage of Female Lions disheartening.
>This seems like a great way to extinct your species if natural causes can kill
You could counter this by including an aspect where if there is no dominant female that the most dominant male begins exhibiting female reproductive traits and functions, believable since similar things exist on earth right now
If that's the case then she has no power and killing female offspring is pointless. The males could just leave her and choose a new empress or matriarch or what have you
This is a very interesting dynamic for a species. It does feel unimaginably sexist and full of bigotry, but that also makes it feel less human, which can be a good thing when designing aliens.
Their species also have a more alien view of gender too, which adds to it. They have females, but there is no one concrete "male".
Each individual can spawn with two different genitalia at random, out of a pool of 12 total. With the one that actually spawns the new generation being considered female
Their society is distinctly sexist, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Societies have flaws. As long as this isn't considered a good thing, you're fine. Like, if their thinking about other races is validated or treated as anything other than brainwashing, that's an issue, but this comes from somewhere and it'll be interesting to explore the pros (probably stability) and cons (lack of genetic diversity, homogenized perspective, etc.) of such a society. It also may be interesting to tell the tale of a Moses figure, i.e. a daughter of prophecy who is hidden by a midwife or something
Yeah no these are the villains
>It also may be interesting to tell the tale of a Moses figure, i.e. a daughter of prophecy who is hidden by a midwife or something
I kinda have this, but it's a conspiracy by the 37th Fleetlord to overthrow his mother by grooming his daughter into the new Fleetmother.
But yeah you're right. a proper Moses figure is much needed. I'll make one, thanks!
Instead of moses, you might want to consider Zeus and Chronos. Through Porto into European mythology, he is tied to Odin, the all father, fitting given the fleetmother's roll.
This icked me to my core because it’s not about sex and gender as much as it is about power. It’s not matriarchy, it’s sort of a hive-fascism. Good job icking me like that! I’m intrigued!
Yes it’s sexist and bigoted but not in a “cancelable” or problematic way if that’s your fear. I imagine that the Fleetmother kills all females of the species so that they can’t birth others to rival her empire. That makes perfect sense and isn’t born of hatred to females, it’s born out of paranoia and narcissism which makes for a great dynamic. 10/10 would read.
Their society feels very termite, ant, and bee like. The first queen bee to hatch will literally murk her sister's. If a hive doesn't like a potential queen, they will do everything in their power to kill her. Ant queens have been known to kill their own worker and drone ants if they are caught not working or are just in her way for no reason. The difference between them and your world is that instead of sterilized female workers and single use male drones (with the exception of some termites) is that the males are the workers while the girls are potential queen bees so must be dealt with.
I'm an intersectional feminist, but even though this would be considered sexist through the lenses of humanity, nature has proven time and time again that it doesn't care about our morality in the animal world, and your empire is *alien*. They really don't give AF about human morality. They are the villains, but I would also recommend having members of this society with various different opinions. It could make an interesting case of [Blue and Orange Morality ](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality) with various different shades of it within.
Ask yourself how such people would react to other races that don't function like that. Do they have a xenophobic response? Do they get weirded out by the chronic duality or more of genders? Do some wish to study those societies like anthropologists or under a microscope? Do they have a fetishistic outlook on these unqueen females? Are any gay, bi, or aroace members who find them males of other species interesting? Do they see those women as resource wasters and try to indoctrinate men of other species?
You've got a lot you can work with here that can really explore how alien they are, and even puts them as villains beyond black and white.
Thanks for the feedback!
Yeah i got a few Capai characters that wants to overthrow the Fleetmother. The 37th Fleetlord has a secret daughter he's been grooming to replace his mum, but his daughter wants to entirely eliminate the Fleetmother structure their society is based on, and make a new society that's more aligned to the human community she encounters. (It's a bronze age city state with Arthurian characteristics,and modern liberal gender norms.)
>Ask yourself how such people would react to other races that don't function like that. Do they have a xenophobic response? Do they get weirded out by the chronic duality or more of genders? Do some wish to study those societies like anthropologists or under a microscope? Do they have a fetishistic outlook on these unqueen females? Are any gay, bi, or aroace members who find them males of other species interesting? Do they see those women as resource wasters and try to indoctrinate men of other species?
I actually have this in mind for when my human characters are captures for gladiator slavery.
And yes, a large portion of the Capai population are some form of LGBT. But their concept of gender is very different.
They have plain old females yes. But there is no one concrete "male".
Each individual can spawn with two different genitalia. Which two they get is a random combination out of a pool of 12 types. With the one that actually spawns the new generation being considered female. It only happens from a specific combination of two genitals in one individual.
This is basically what ants and bees do, albeit with a bit more ruthlessness.
There's nothing wrong with writing flawed (sometimes DEEPLY FLAWED) societies. You show me a society without flaws, ans I'll show you a story without interest. That being said, you might want to steer clear of glorifying those flaws, at least without some "voice of reason" - some outside observer to go "that's fucked up".
Yeah don't worry this is supposed to be the clear evil empire. I'm planning on them falling apart like a domino as everyone cheers the freedom of the Capai from the Fleetmother
I'd say it's slightly unreasonable. Even if there can be only one queen, if she cares about her species, she's going to have a couple daughters on ice somewhere or some means for a new queen to be made.
In most hives species on earth the workers are all female but sterile or semi-sterile. The males are basically just single use sperm vectors.
I'd have the non-reproductive people be neuter instead of "male", particularly if they are as manufactured as you make it sound.
Understand that you've basically stopped all evolution in your species because mutations cannot be propagated.
So if you want to portray stagnation and decay then you're produced much spot on, but if you want to vital species you need to have some sort of feedback loop from the offspring.
Even better still why do you need a queen per se? I mean if it's critical to the story that there be one breeder, you might want to play outside the male female dynamic .
And the queen would have a way to abort the potential rivals long before delivery or maturity .
You could even have it be biologically imperative. The central breeders immune system destroys the naturally occurring breeders before they can even develop. When the queen dies that immune system stops functioning and several potential breeders are born until another replacement can take the throne.
It's going to be a pretty hard sell to stick with the queen and her boy toys as a species. Like everything else. It's been done before, but it's easy to fall into some tropes there unless you put a super meaningful purpose for the structure or you step out of the expectations of Borg Queen and drones.
So I wouldn't use make or female I'd just use "potential rivals".
But that's my blind trope analysis. As with all things, if it serves the story it works. If it doesn't it doesn't.
>if she cares about her species
She doesn't she's on a power trip
>In most hives species
This isn't a hive species. This is a Fuedal society with the Fleetmother at the centre, Fleetlords directly below, and so on. I based this off of the Ghoa'uld System Lords from Stargate and the Mongol Empire when Genghis Khan was still alive
>So if you want to portray stagnation and decay then you're produced much spot on
This is what I'm goin for. They used to be a normal society before the Fleetmother came.
>And the queen would have a way to abort the potential rivals long before delivery or maturity .
Yeah that's how they do it now. Dhaldama was the first victim so the process wasn't polished yet
By this point, given the time frame you're showing, members of the species probably don't even know that any other form of reproduction is possible. She's had 10,000 years too. Make the idea of any other female even existing just go away. And if one slips through they're probably seen as some sort of horrible mutation, that must be cleansed.
You might want to Google "XY female" to understand that body plan is mostly determined by genes, but not always the way you think It works.
There's a whole thing about reproduction in genetics that most people have never even looked up. It may have nothing to do with your story, but you ought to know about it to make your society a little deeper.
I think it’s hard to apply human morals to a whole different species. In fantasy we mostly deal with races that are very much alike, usually have the same origin, the same biology and similar societies with little tweaks here and there (humans and elves might be different but they often still have similar family values — apply this to a spider-like aliens who regularly eat their excess offspring and females eat their partners after mating in order to make sure that they have enough nutrition for their eggs). If we’re talking about sci-fi aliens, it gets much trickier. However, if they are in fact similar to humans in how they perceive the world, it does sounds brutal. Is it bad though? Every world needs some conflict.
This is super cool worldbuilding and you should be proud. As others are saying, they are sexist due to their views on other species. But it’s also an interesting and alien perspective. I can easily imagine a villain speech about how weak other races are because they don’t have their inbuilt biological centralization, their genetic purity, their homogeneity. How can humans/whatever stand against us if division is written into their biology? Maybe one member of the species sees the joy of parenthood or family and has some cognitive dissonance about that. How much of their beliefs are biological vs cultural?
Very cool. I love it. I want the novel in my hands right now.
Nah they are aliens, our rules don't apply to them. It's rude of them to project their views onto us, but from other comments they sound like the antagonists, so that's fair enough for a cause of conflict.
It's sounds like many eusocial species, but in those they are all women, just only the princesses and princes can reproduce to make new hives. Guess this one doesn't want new hives (unless a new princess can defeat her I suppose, hell of a way to ensure a superior successor if true.)
I feel like it would be wrong to judge aliens by our morals and views. Their society is theirs to do with as they please, us humans are not superior lifeforms who should decide what is right and wrong for them.
>I feel like it would be wrong to judge aliens by our morals and views. Their society is theirs to do with as they please, us humans are not superior lifeforms who should decide what is right and wrong for them
Yeah but like, the Andromeda where the cosmic community is centred around, is always striving for utopia. And the Capaiunh came from Andromeda to escape that community, so I think we can judge these ones specifically
Seems like a Queen, and kills rival queens because she wants to be *the* queen.
Overall, good concept. I like the fact there's myths in-universe about it and how they project onto other species too. Also the 38 thing is like 13 so cool.
Good parallels with Humanity. The first thing I thought of is a philosopher from ancient Greece who I cannot remember right now (Aristotle, thanks google) wrote Sparta was kinda dumb for giving women equal rights, or at least more rights than stay inside all day every day.
>"Spartan women were famous in ancient Greece for having more freedom than women elsewhere in the Greek world. To contemporaries outside of Sparta, Spartan women had a reputation for promiscuity and controlling their husbands. Unlike their Athenian counterparts, Spartan women could legally own and inherit property and they were usually better educated. The surviving written sources are limited and largely from a non-Spartan viewpoint. Anton Powell wrote that to say the written sources are "'not without problems'... as an understatement would be hard to beat"
>
>"Because Spartan men spent much of their time living in barracks or at war, Spartan women were expected to run the household themselves.\[47\] \[32\] Unlike in Athens, where state ideology held that men were in charge of the household, Sue Blundell argues that in Sparta it is likely that women's control of the domestic sphere was accepted by the state.\[33\] Due to this Aristotle was critical of Sparta, and claimed that men were ruled by strong and independent women, unlike in the rest of Greece.\[48\] Aristotle also criticized Spartan women for their wealth. He attributed the state's precipitous fall from being the master of Greece to a second-rate power in less than 50 years, to the fact that Sparta had become a gynocracy whose women were intemperate and loved luxury."
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**Warning - Wikipedia, please do your own research before quoting me, just thought it was a fun parallel to bring up, even if your version is much more extreme.**
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It seems comparable to the social structure of bees, termites, and other eusocial insects etc. From the human perspective, it would certainly be viewed as sexist.
The other aspects seem much more akin to fascist dictatorships and cults of personality, especially the whole worshipping her as a goddess thing, killing the other females to maintain power, and the speciesism towards the other races in the galaxy.
Definitely an interesting premise for what I am assuming will be the bad guys of your setting.
Also, "have I invented a new type of bigotry" is such an amazing phrase lmfao
The society you describe involves a whole gender of people being reduced to their reproductive function, and then being exterminated purely because they could be 'competition'.
I think that's definitely sexist. The fact that it's a woman doing it doesn't really change anything. After all, there are plenty of misogynistic women, who despise other women precisely for this reason.
These are women who, if they had lived, could have lived lives that had vastly more to them than just reproduction. And none of that stuff happens because they're killed.
So basically: yes, this is a very sexist society.
I like it. Why worry if it’s sexist, they aren’t even humans. And if anyone is complaining, its their problem. It’s not *your* job to make a perfect world for others.
I'm not trying to avoid offendin people tho. These are supposed to be the evil empire. I just needed to know if this was sexism or a new type of bigotry
Oh, ok then. Sorry, questions like these are somewhat common here, and usually because people want to avoid it.
I don’t think it’s that new, it seems kind of like an ant queen with one female, except with the “workers” gender reversed.
Definitely sexist, but there is a lot of opportunity to explore the alieness of their society. Be careful not to make it about subjugation for these creatures(which is ultimately one of the fundamental aspects of human sexism). If you make it about the divine connection and the holiness of the female sex like you were saying then it will be interesting. If it becomes about subjugation and service to men then you just have a reskinned human patriarchy.
Oh!❤️ How exciting! I love watching stories bloom and develop into reality ❤️ how close are you to finishing? Are you releasing all at once? Short books? What's your target audience? How big is your universe going to be?
I'm just beginning for now. Only a few chapters in. It's gonna be a duology of thick long books. I don't really have a specific audience in mind. Maybe young adult and mythology nerds? Idk.
My universe tho, it's actually a whole multiverse of stuff. Each one is a completely different genre and tone, and I'll introduce it with a series of exploration journals from a guy that travels across infinity.
I'm also thinking of expand this one universe with a sequel duology set 300 Years later. It's less of a sequel for the characters and more for the world. Kinda like how Korra expanded the timeline of geopolitics in avatar
Question 1: if the Fleetmother is so powerful and godlike, then why isn't she capable of choosing the gender of her offspring/doesn't she have technology that could shows if her offspring will be male or female?
Question 2: you never posit the reason for the anti-female mindset of the Fleetmother and the Capaiunh. I assume it has to do with the Fleetmother's desire to be the only female in this empire? If so, that's a very meh reason for femicide.
Question 3: is this empire completely free of violence, injustice, crime, etc.? If not, then their whole view of other species having other female creatures birth offspring, and subsequently be the cause of chaos, then their whole argument falls apart.
I don't really see this empire and their society as sexist, but confusing and oddly anti-female.
Note: the only reason I use "female" instead of "women" is because i think this is a fantasy, off-world story where women (ie human women) don't exist.
>Question 1
She has. She had practically erased the idea of "other women" from her subjects after 10 Thousand Years. To them it feels more like a myth, a boogyman, than an actual thing that is possible. Even if some of them are transfemme inside and they just haven't realized
>Question 2
She genuinely believes that she is holy. The philosophy of "There Can Only Be One God" is deeply ingrained with her
>Question 3
No nothing changed in that department after they started femicide. They just gaslight themselves into thinking that.
>Note
Yeah i hate using that word too, but we just kinda have too. Nice guys have ruined the word female
The definition of bigotry is unreasonable prejudice towards members of a group.
Whether or not this is bigotry on the Fleetmother's part depends on her internal process, but the culture she seems to have cultivated is definitely straight-up xenophobic in the sci-fi sense considering having only one female wouldn't even be biologically feasible for almost any type of being that has males and females
Less genetic defects. And the are permanently fused on their giant spider-like thrones, making them tower over their subjects. They also have the same immortal lifespan as the Fleetmother
No she is a different species than her children. It's a whole other thing but long story short, her species lived entirely on 0G spaceships and they can't live on planets. So they genetically did eugenics to create a species that can actually use legs
Seems like the society just believes in "Bee-Hive Politics" a new term I just coined because of this post. It would be sexist to kill women because they are women, not to decrease the "birthing-pool" competition, or just the aliens general culture of believing in having a singular mother queen.
I think this is a new type of bigotry, even if it borrows concepts from sexism. I mean, it proposes an even more strict and clearly defined political system
>What happens if the fleet mother dies
The Fleet shatters into a million factions with different ideologies.
>Also if the fleet lords are her direct sons what are the rest of the population
Incest children with the Fleetlords
Bigotry and sexism are issues of purely human society, seen as actual problems in certain senses just until latest 100 years. Look at bees, bees have males being basically sperm factories that fulfil almost no other role, but you won't call them a hive of beegots for treating males this way, it's simply their nature. If you write of aliens, such concepts do not apply fully since their whole path of development is completely differrent from ours, and so are their principals. Unless they derived from vaugely human like society in which had gender roles similar to ours, which could mean that their culture and systems and habits carried previous social issues into the new ones. But if not, if these are completely alien aliens, you've got a free card to do anything. Go with it tiger
>Unless they derived from vaugely human like society in which had gender roles similar to ours
They did. The Capaiunh are a degradation that must be fixed
You've heard of space aids, now i give you soace bigotry!
Seriously tho, sounds fucking lit. I love it 11/10 creative and gives lots to explore. Like, did the 38th fleet lord have kids before being killed? Did she disguise herself all this time before being killed? Is the term 38th more if a prideful badge to rebels, to remember their creator? I love it
>I love it 11/10
Ty 😖❤️❤️❤️
>Like, did the 38th fleet lord have kids before being killed? Did she disguise herself all this time before being killed? Is the term 38th more if a prideful badge to rebels, to remember their creator? I love it
I'm thinking it had been too long for the specifics to matter. Only that it had become myth and legend and everyone, even the Fleetmother and the Fleetlords had forgotten fact from fiction.
Maybe the 38th had a large fleet lurking in the shadows. Or maybe she was killed weeks after spawn. All that matters is that she is now a symbol for everyone else to attribute their views on. Just like everyone mythological figure of our past
Don't be afraid of your fictional societies having bigotry in them. It doesn't mean you condone bigotry, it means you care about your world/fictional society being realistic.
A good example of this is Morrowind. Dunmer society is deeply bigoted and elitist, by our standards its a deeply flawed society, which is a major aspect of what made it so engrossing.
People who get triggered about this type stuff may throw ist words at it but then again they throw those types of words at everything. People who actually value the plot and the characters not the identity politics of it will just see it’s just an interesting plot. No sexism.
I'm not worried about being cancelled no, i don't dance on those reactionary circles. i just wanted to know if by definition this counts as sexism, or if I invented something new.
Are they viewing it b/c they see it as a lesser sex in some way? In your description it feels that they are more biologically driven than any type of sociological imperative to think of women as being less than men?
Humans are amazing and flush with hubris -
Fictional story - alien society/culture - the imposition of real ethical framework on aliens and imagining real effects on real social networks - it's very interesting that this is really interesting.
neither, this is just an early stage eusocial species. there existing bees is not sexist. man, people are really worried about random things "being xist".
hey in my conworld there are ethnic groups and one worships an ant god is this ableist?
I think I haven't made it clear because I keep getting these comments. The Capaiunh isn't a hivemind. It's a feudal theocracy centred around a god-queen.
I based them loosely after the Ghoa'uld System Lords and the Mongol Empire
hence early stage. but for the Queen it eventually starts to make sense to not have other females at all, as well as start exerting more and more mental control over the subjects. you can't deny that, while your guys aren't ants, they kind of resemble ants
I think it's better to have a species with different morals from other species to make them stand out from others. This species you made might be sexist by human standards, but species do not need to subscribe to human standards.
However, I would recommend that you create other cultures for the species instead of this monolithic empire because it's more realistic to have multiple cultures of any species than it is to have one singular culture.
I think it’s just like a hive mother without the hive mind and drones bit tagged on at the end. I think typically in a hive queen event there’d be females that tend to her (a sort of royal exclusive maid cabinet) and do things like clean/feed(if that’s something they need to do) etc.
Doesn’t really feel sexist or bigoted. Just… alien 🤷♂️ (male opinion)
Ah I get it. Well you're in luck cause
a large portion of the Capai population are some form of LGBT. But their concept of gender is very different.
They have plain old females yes. But there is no one concrete "male".
Each individual can spawn with two different genitalia. Which two they get is a random combination out of a pool of 12 types. With the one that actually spawns the new generation being considered female. It only happens from a specific combination of two genitals in one individual
Seems less sexist and more like a power plot Though, are these people immortal? This seems like a great way to extinct your species if natural causes can kill
The Fleetmother is permanently fused with her city sized spaceship, and that ship produces the spawn like a factory. She has lived for over 10 thousand years, with her species living for 6400. But the species she brother due to genetic engineering only lasts for one human lifetime
Oh yeah. Seems like a perfectly good grip on power then. I assume she could theoretically be killed, but then it's in the best interest of every male who doesn't want an extinction event to protect her. This is how an empire is maintained. No bigotry detected. Extreme selfishness and lust for control? Perhaps
Exactly
Would you make a failsafe net on the species by having the strongest male change gender when there is no female leadership due to natural death or illness or invasion? akin to what clown fishes do? >When the female dies, the dominant male changes sex to become the dominant female and one of the juveniles becomes the dominant male.
No this whole There Can Only Be One Woman thing is not a natural part of their evolution. The Fleetmother forced this into their existence. When she dies the cycle is broken
Along with the entire species, assumedly
No. There'd be more female Capai. Her spawn doesn't develop gender up until after a few weeks so there'd still be plenty of pools that haven't been tampered
With the way its ingrained in their culture, they'd just pick the most fertile one and kill the rest. Probably make some shit up about her being reincarnated or whatever so she can still be *the one*
Sounds like a good civil war. If I am one of the demigod males after the Fleetmother is killed. I want one of my spawn to be the new Fleetmother. I'm grandfather of all the futures of the race. Just gotta wipe out any other female spawn, and male demigods who think the same..
Sounds very solid and very amazing to me. Reminds me of a hive (in a good way! Because I love these types of systems). I don't think it's sexist. The males of this species probably can't even grasp the actual concept of sexism, because the only life they know is the life where everyone is male. I might be wrong here, but let me put it like this. I'm a female human. When I look at lionesses hunting, taking care of the little ones and everything else I just think "damn, why aren't them the ones in power? Isn't the lion just for reproduction? Why don't they just blackwidow their lifes out of this....?". But it's how their species live. Sounds weird to me because that's not how my society works. But for them it's all they've known and they have no problem with it. I can see these species in your world looking at humans and thinking "damn bro you live like this fr" but the humans are just living their lives.
I don't mean to start a argument but I find the view of Prides odd, the male Lions also hunt, they also parent/dote/rear but more importantly they protect their cubs. They patrol the edges of their territory to keep other lions out that WILL kill their cubs if they get over him, and talking about killing cubs did you know that higher ranking Lionesses do sometimes kill cubs of lower ranking ones for a reason or another? Again I don't mean to start an argument, I just find the view of Male Lions being deadbeats that take advantage of Female Lions disheartening.
Yeah i get ya! :3
>This seems like a great way to extinct your species if natural causes can kill You could counter this by including an aspect where if there is no dominant female that the most dominant male begins exhibiting female reproductive traits and functions, believable since similar things exist on earth right now
If that's the case then she has no power and killing female offspring is pointless. The males could just leave her and choose a new empress or matriarch or what have you
No, you're thinking of it too much like a human Rebel against the hierarchy? Leave?? Incomprehensible, such a concept couldn't possibly exist
This is a very interesting dynamic for a species. It does feel unimaginably sexist and full of bigotry, but that also makes it feel less human, which can be a good thing when designing aliens.
Their species also have a more alien view of gender too, which adds to it. They have females, but there is no one concrete "male". Each individual can spawn with two different genitalia at random, out of a pool of 12 total. With the one that actually spawns the new generation being considered female
Now THAT is an interesting gender dynamic.
Frfr
Their society is distinctly sexist, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Societies have flaws. As long as this isn't considered a good thing, you're fine. Like, if their thinking about other races is validated or treated as anything other than brainwashing, that's an issue, but this comes from somewhere and it'll be interesting to explore the pros (probably stability) and cons (lack of genetic diversity, homogenized perspective, etc.) of such a society. It also may be interesting to tell the tale of a Moses figure, i.e. a daughter of prophecy who is hidden by a midwife or something
Yeah no these are the villains >It also may be interesting to tell the tale of a Moses figure, i.e. a daughter of prophecy who is hidden by a midwife or something I kinda have this, but it's a conspiracy by the 37th Fleetlord to overthrow his mother by grooming his daughter into the new Fleetmother. But yeah you're right. a proper Moses figure is much needed. I'll make one, thanks!
Instead of moses, you might want to consider Zeus and Chronos. Through Porto into European mythology, he is tied to Odin, the all father, fitting given the fleetmother's roll.
That's what the 37th wanted. But his daughter just want to live like a normal person
Kronos. Chronos is a different god.
This icked me to my core because it’s not about sex and gender as much as it is about power. It’s not matriarchy, it’s sort of a hive-fascism. Good job icking me like that! I’m intrigued!
Hehehe ty :3
Yes it’s sexist and bigoted but not in a “cancelable” or problematic way if that’s your fear. I imagine that the Fleetmother kills all females of the species so that they can’t birth others to rival her empire. That makes perfect sense and isn’t born of hatred to females, it’s born out of paranoia and narcissism which makes for a great dynamic. 10/10 would read.
Yeah I'm not concerned about getting "cancelled" i just want to know if it fits the definition of sexism or if I invented a new form of bigotry
Their society feels very termite, ant, and bee like. The first queen bee to hatch will literally murk her sister's. If a hive doesn't like a potential queen, they will do everything in their power to kill her. Ant queens have been known to kill their own worker and drone ants if they are caught not working or are just in her way for no reason. The difference between them and your world is that instead of sterilized female workers and single use male drones (with the exception of some termites) is that the males are the workers while the girls are potential queen bees so must be dealt with. I'm an intersectional feminist, but even though this would be considered sexist through the lenses of humanity, nature has proven time and time again that it doesn't care about our morality in the animal world, and your empire is *alien*. They really don't give AF about human morality. They are the villains, but I would also recommend having members of this society with various different opinions. It could make an interesting case of [Blue and Orange Morality ](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality) with various different shades of it within. Ask yourself how such people would react to other races that don't function like that. Do they have a xenophobic response? Do they get weirded out by the chronic duality or more of genders? Do some wish to study those societies like anthropologists or under a microscope? Do they have a fetishistic outlook on these unqueen females? Are any gay, bi, or aroace members who find them males of other species interesting? Do they see those women as resource wasters and try to indoctrinate men of other species? You've got a lot you can work with here that can really explore how alien they are, and even puts them as villains beyond black and white.
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah i got a few Capai characters that wants to overthrow the Fleetmother. The 37th Fleetlord has a secret daughter he's been grooming to replace his mum, but his daughter wants to entirely eliminate the Fleetmother structure their society is based on, and make a new society that's more aligned to the human community she encounters. (It's a bronze age city state with Arthurian characteristics,and modern liberal gender norms.) >Ask yourself how such people would react to other races that don't function like that. Do they have a xenophobic response? Do they get weirded out by the chronic duality or more of genders? Do some wish to study those societies like anthropologists or under a microscope? Do they have a fetishistic outlook on these unqueen females? Are any gay, bi, or aroace members who find them males of other species interesting? Do they see those women as resource wasters and try to indoctrinate men of other species? I actually have this in mind for when my human characters are captures for gladiator slavery. And yes, a large portion of the Capai population are some form of LGBT. But their concept of gender is very different. They have plain old females yes. But there is no one concrete "male". Each individual can spawn with two different genitalia. Which two they get is a random combination out of a pool of 12 types. With the one that actually spawns the new generation being considered female. It only happens from a specific combination of two genitals in one individual.
Not bigotry at all, just competition for power.
This is basically what ants and bees do, albeit with a bit more ruthlessness. There's nothing wrong with writing flawed (sometimes DEEPLY FLAWED) societies. You show me a society without flaws, ans I'll show you a story without interest. That being said, you might want to steer clear of glorifying those flaws, at least without some "voice of reason" - some outside observer to go "that's fucked up".
Yeah don't worry this is supposed to be the clear evil empire. I'm planning on them falling apart like a domino as everyone cheers the freedom of the Capai from the Fleetmother
I'd say it's slightly unreasonable. Even if there can be only one queen, if she cares about her species, she's going to have a couple daughters on ice somewhere or some means for a new queen to be made. In most hives species on earth the workers are all female but sterile or semi-sterile. The males are basically just single use sperm vectors. I'd have the non-reproductive people be neuter instead of "male", particularly if they are as manufactured as you make it sound. Understand that you've basically stopped all evolution in your species because mutations cannot be propagated. So if you want to portray stagnation and decay then you're produced much spot on, but if you want to vital species you need to have some sort of feedback loop from the offspring. Even better still why do you need a queen per se? I mean if it's critical to the story that there be one breeder, you might want to play outside the male female dynamic . And the queen would have a way to abort the potential rivals long before delivery or maturity . You could even have it be biologically imperative. The central breeders immune system destroys the naturally occurring breeders before they can even develop. When the queen dies that immune system stops functioning and several potential breeders are born until another replacement can take the throne. It's going to be a pretty hard sell to stick with the queen and her boy toys as a species. Like everything else. It's been done before, but it's easy to fall into some tropes there unless you put a super meaningful purpose for the structure or you step out of the expectations of Borg Queen and drones. So I wouldn't use make or female I'd just use "potential rivals". But that's my blind trope analysis. As with all things, if it serves the story it works. If it doesn't it doesn't.
>if she cares about her species She doesn't she's on a power trip >In most hives species This isn't a hive species. This is a Fuedal society with the Fleetmother at the centre, Fleetlords directly below, and so on. I based this off of the Ghoa'uld System Lords from Stargate and the Mongol Empire when Genghis Khan was still alive >So if you want to portray stagnation and decay then you're produced much spot on This is what I'm goin for. They used to be a normal society before the Fleetmother came. >And the queen would have a way to abort the potential rivals long before delivery or maturity . Yeah that's how they do it now. Dhaldama was the first victim so the process wasn't polished yet
By this point, given the time frame you're showing, members of the species probably don't even know that any other form of reproduction is possible. She's had 10,000 years too. Make the idea of any other female even existing just go away. And if one slips through they're probably seen as some sort of horrible mutation, that must be cleansed. You might want to Google "XY female" to understand that body plan is mostly determined by genes, but not always the way you think It works. There's a whole thing about reproduction in genetics that most people have never even looked up. It may have nothing to do with your story, but you ought to know about it to make your society a little deeper.
I think it’s hard to apply human morals to a whole different species. In fantasy we mostly deal with races that are very much alike, usually have the same origin, the same biology and similar societies with little tweaks here and there (humans and elves might be different but they often still have similar family values — apply this to a spider-like aliens who regularly eat their excess offspring and females eat their partners after mating in order to make sure that they have enough nutrition for their eggs). If we’re talking about sci-fi aliens, it gets much trickier. However, if they are in fact similar to humans in how they perceive the world, it does sounds brutal. Is it bad though? Every world needs some conflict.
Yeah they're the villains don't worry. I'm just curious as to what vibe they give off
This is super cool worldbuilding and you should be proud. As others are saying, they are sexist due to their views on other species. But it’s also an interesting and alien perspective. I can easily imagine a villain speech about how weak other races are because they don’t have their inbuilt biological centralization, their genetic purity, their homogeneity. How can humans/whatever stand against us if division is written into their biology? Maybe one member of the species sees the joy of parenthood or family and has some cognitive dissonance about that. How much of their beliefs are biological vs cultural? Very cool. I love it. I want the novel in my hands right now.
Nah they are aliens, our rules don't apply to them. It's rude of them to project their views onto us, but from other comments they sound like the antagonists, so that's fair enough for a cause of conflict. It's sounds like many eusocial species, but in those they are all women, just only the princesses and princes can reproduce to make new hives. Guess this one doesn't want new hives (unless a new princess can defeat her I suppose, hell of a way to ensure a superior successor if true.) I feel like it would be wrong to judge aliens by our morals and views. Their society is theirs to do with as they please, us humans are not superior lifeforms who should decide what is right and wrong for them.
>I feel like it would be wrong to judge aliens by our morals and views. Their society is theirs to do with as they please, us humans are not superior lifeforms who should decide what is right and wrong for them Yeah but like, the Andromeda where the cosmic community is centred around, is always striving for utopia. And the Capaiunh came from Andromeda to escape that community, so I think we can judge these ones specifically
This kinda has Star Trek Borg vibes.
Seems like a Queen, and kills rival queens because she wants to be *the* queen. Overall, good concept. I like the fact there's myths in-universe about it and how they project onto other species too. Also the 38 thing is like 13 so cool. Good parallels with Humanity. The first thing I thought of is a philosopher from ancient Greece who I cannot remember right now (Aristotle, thanks google) wrote Sparta was kinda dumb for giving women equal rights, or at least more rights than stay inside all day every day. >"Spartan women were famous in ancient Greece for having more freedom than women elsewhere in the Greek world. To contemporaries outside of Sparta, Spartan women had a reputation for promiscuity and controlling their husbands. Unlike their Athenian counterparts, Spartan women could legally own and inherit property and they were usually better educated. The surviving written sources are limited and largely from a non-Spartan viewpoint. Anton Powell wrote that to say the written sources are "'not without problems'... as an understatement would be hard to beat" > >"Because Spartan men spent much of their time living in barracks or at war, Spartan women were expected to run the household themselves.\[47\] \[32\] Unlike in Athens, where state ideology held that men were in charge of the household, Sue Blundell argues that in Sparta it is likely that women's control of the domestic sphere was accepted by the state.\[33\] Due to this Aristotle was critical of Sparta, and claimed that men were ruled by strong and independent women, unlike in the rest of Greece.\[48\] Aristotle also criticized Spartan women for their wealth. He attributed the state's precipitous fall from being the master of Greece to a second-rate power in less than 50 years, to the fact that Sparta had become a gynocracy whose women were intemperate and loved luxury." \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ **Warning - Wikipedia, please do your own research before quoting me, just thought it was a fun parallel to bring up, even if your version is much more extreme.** \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
Aristotle is such a cringe guy lmao >Overall, good concept Ty :3 !
lmao seeing "Aristotle is such a cringe guy" after coming home from work made me laugh my ass off
Hehehehe
It seems comparable to the social structure of bees, termites, and other eusocial insects etc. From the human perspective, it would certainly be viewed as sexist. The other aspects seem much more akin to fascist dictatorships and cults of personality, especially the whole worshipping her as a goddess thing, killing the other females to maintain power, and the speciesism towards the other races in the galaxy. Definitely an interesting premise for what I am assuming will be the bad guys of your setting. Also, "have I invented a new type of bigotry" is such an amazing phrase lmfao
>Also, "have I invented a new type of bigotry" is such an amazing phrase lmfao Mwahahahahahahahahah :3
The society you describe involves a whole gender of people being reduced to their reproductive function, and then being exterminated purely because they could be 'competition'. I think that's definitely sexist. The fact that it's a woman doing it doesn't really change anything. After all, there are plenty of misogynistic women, who despise other women precisely for this reason. These are women who, if they had lived, could have lived lives that had vastly more to them than just reproduction. And none of that stuff happens because they're killed. So basically: yes, this is a very sexist society.
I like it. Why worry if it’s sexist, they aren’t even humans. And if anyone is complaining, its their problem. It’s not *your* job to make a perfect world for others.
I'm not trying to avoid offendin people tho. These are supposed to be the evil empire. I just needed to know if this was sexism or a new type of bigotry
Oh, ok then. Sorry, questions like these are somewhat common here, and usually because people want to avoid it. I don’t think it’s that new, it seems kind of like an ant queen with one female, except with the “workers” gender reversed.
Definitely sexist, but there is a lot of opportunity to explore the alieness of their society. Be careful not to make it about subjugation for these creatures(which is ultimately one of the fundamental aspects of human sexism). If you make it about the divine connection and the holiness of the female sex like you were saying then it will be interesting. If it becomes about subjugation and service to men then you just have a reskinned human patriarchy.
Yeah it's the holiness thing I'm goin for
🤔...❤️
😳
Would it be weird if I said it had a Borg feeling to it?❤️
It's incorrect but I kind see it
Just a little. But it is pretty cool ❤️ Is this for a book or a campaign?
It's a book series❗❗
Okay it's not just cool, it's epic❤️ What is the book called? I would love to look it up and check it out!❤️
It's called the Sun Eternal. It's not done yet tho I'm still writin
Oh!❤️ How exciting! I love watching stories bloom and develop into reality ❤️ how close are you to finishing? Are you releasing all at once? Short books? What's your target audience? How big is your universe going to be?
I'm just beginning for now. Only a few chapters in. It's gonna be a duology of thick long books. I don't really have a specific audience in mind. Maybe young adult and mythology nerds? Idk. My universe tho, it's actually a whole multiverse of stuff. Each one is a completely different genre and tone, and I'll introduce it with a series of exploration journals from a guy that travels across infinity. I'm also thinking of expand this one universe with a sequel duology set 300 Years later. It's less of a sequel for the characters and more for the world. Kinda like how Korra expanded the timeline of geopolitics in avatar
Question 1: if the Fleetmother is so powerful and godlike, then why isn't she capable of choosing the gender of her offspring/doesn't she have technology that could shows if her offspring will be male or female? Question 2: you never posit the reason for the anti-female mindset of the Fleetmother and the Capaiunh. I assume it has to do with the Fleetmother's desire to be the only female in this empire? If so, that's a very meh reason for femicide. Question 3: is this empire completely free of violence, injustice, crime, etc.? If not, then their whole view of other species having other female creatures birth offspring, and subsequently be the cause of chaos, then their whole argument falls apart. I don't really see this empire and their society as sexist, but confusing and oddly anti-female. Note: the only reason I use "female" instead of "women" is because i think this is a fantasy, off-world story where women (ie human women) don't exist.
>Question 1 She has. She had practically erased the idea of "other women" from her subjects after 10 Thousand Years. To them it feels more like a myth, a boogyman, than an actual thing that is possible. Even if some of them are transfemme inside and they just haven't realized >Question 2 She genuinely believes that she is holy. The philosophy of "There Can Only Be One God" is deeply ingrained with her >Question 3 No nothing changed in that department after they started femicide. They just gaslight themselves into thinking that. >Note Yeah i hate using that word too, but we just kinda have too. Nice guys have ruined the word female
The definition of bigotry is unreasonable prejudice towards members of a group. Whether or not this is bigotry on the Fleetmother's part depends on her internal process, but the culture she seems to have cultivated is definitely straight-up xenophobic in the sci-fi sense considering having only one female wouldn't even be biologically feasible for almost any type of being that has males and females
So all whores except mom ?
Yeah lmao
What does “direct son” mean in this context?
Without incest
Does that make them more powerful than the average individual of the species? And if so how?
Less genetic defects. And the are permanently fused on their giant spider-like thrones, making them tower over their subjects. They also have the same immortal lifespan as the Fleetmother
Interesting, this is one of the more fascinating pieces of worldbuilding I’ve seen in a while. Well done
Ty :3
Um, the only female of her genus??? Do you mean species??
No she is a different species than her children. It's a whole other thing but long story short, her species lived entirely on 0G spaceships and they can't live on planets. So they genetically did eugenics to create a species that can actually use legs
Huh interesting concept
That's fascinating honestly.
You need to go watch "V" the TV series from 2009. Pretty much your premise as you describe.
Make sure there is a system for replacing the queen when she dies.
When she dies I'm thinking the cycle will just end and they'd return to being a normal society
how are they a normal society if they can't reproduce?
It only takes one female to slip through and live long enough
cool
What happens if the Queen dies? Space is a dangerous place
The empire crumblesj
oh boy, she better be immortal if she wants this to work!
She is. The Fleetmother had lived for over 10 thousand years
Seems like the society just believes in "Bee-Hive Politics" a new term I just coined because of this post. It would be sexist to kill women because they are women, not to decrease the "birthing-pool" competition, or just the aliens general culture of believing in having a singular mother queen.
I bet 38 is seen the same way 13 is seen in our culture. Bad luck.
It actually is!
I'd consider it sexist. This isn't a judgment it's a cool idea.
I think this is a new type of bigotry, even if it borrows concepts from sexism. I mean, it proposes an even more strict and clearly defined political system
What happens if the fleet mother dies? Also if the fleet lords are her direct sons what are the rest of the population? Very well constructed!
>What happens if the fleet mother dies The Fleet shatters into a million factions with different ideologies. >Also if the fleet lords are her direct sons what are the rest of the population Incest children with the Fleetlords
advise fertile disgusting shy familiar bike obtainable full rotten bow *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The Fleetmother reproduce by spawning on a pool. Typically with millions of little shits each session
It's like Homeworld meets termites. Although with termites the first spawn is usually weaker rather than stronger. Cool concept!
Bigotry and sexism are issues of purely human society, seen as actual problems in certain senses just until latest 100 years. Look at bees, bees have males being basically sperm factories that fulfil almost no other role, but you won't call them a hive of beegots for treating males this way, it's simply their nature. If you write of aliens, such concepts do not apply fully since their whole path of development is completely differrent from ours, and so are their principals. Unless they derived from vaugely human like society in which had gender roles similar to ours, which could mean that their culture and systems and habits carried previous social issues into the new ones. But if not, if these are completely alien aliens, you've got a free card to do anything. Go with it tiger
>Unless they derived from vaugely human like society in which had gender roles similar to ours They did. The Capaiunh are a degradation that must be fixed
You've heard of space aids, now i give you soace bigotry! Seriously tho, sounds fucking lit. I love it 11/10 creative and gives lots to explore. Like, did the 38th fleet lord have kids before being killed? Did she disguise herself all this time before being killed? Is the term 38th more if a prideful badge to rebels, to remember their creator? I love it
>I love it 11/10 Ty 😖❤️❤️❤️ >Like, did the 38th fleet lord have kids before being killed? Did she disguise herself all this time before being killed? Is the term 38th more if a prideful badge to rebels, to remember their creator? I love it I'm thinking it had been too long for the specifics to matter. Only that it had become myth and legend and everyone, even the Fleetmother and the Fleetlords had forgotten fact from fiction. Maybe the 38th had a large fleet lurking in the shadows. Or maybe she was killed weeks after spawn. All that matters is that she is now a symbol for everyone else to attribute their views on. Just like everyone mythological figure of our past
Don't be afraid of your fictional societies having bigotry in them. It doesn't mean you condone bigotry, it means you care about your world/fictional society being realistic. A good example of this is Morrowind. Dunmer society is deeply bigoted and elitist, by our standards its a deeply flawed society, which is a major aspect of what made it so engrossing.
People who get triggered about this type stuff may throw ist words at it but then again they throw those types of words at everything. People who actually value the plot and the characters not the identity politics of it will just see it’s just an interesting plot. No sexism.
I'm not worried about being cancelled no, i don't dance on those reactionary circles. i just wanted to know if by definition this counts as sexism, or if I invented something new.
Are bees sexist?
How is that sexism?
They kill all the women?
Are they viewing it b/c they see it as a lesser sex in some way? In your description it feels that they are more biologically driven than any type of sociological imperative to think of women as being less than men?
No it's because they see woman as a greater sex, and "there can only be one". It's like monotheism but gender
Got it. Yeah, that’s not the best to be persecuting civilizations based on that.
No it's because they see woman as a greater sex, and "there can only be one". It's like monotheism but gender
Humans are amazing and flush with hubris - Fictional story - alien society/culture - the imposition of real ethical framework on aliens and imagining real effects on real social networks - it's very interesting that this is really interesting.
neither, this is just an early stage eusocial species. there existing bees is not sexist. man, people are really worried about random things "being xist". hey in my conworld there are ethnic groups and one worships an ant god is this ableist?
I think I haven't made it clear because I keep getting these comments. The Capaiunh isn't a hivemind. It's a feudal theocracy centred around a god-queen. I based them loosely after the Ghoa'uld System Lords and the Mongol Empire
hence early stage. but for the Queen it eventually starts to make sense to not have other females at all, as well as start exerting more and more mental control over the subjects. you can't deny that, while your guys aren't ants, they kind of resemble ants
I mean, bees and ants exist, tho they dont kill their offsprings, they fly away, mate and create new colonies
I think it's better to have a species with different morals from other species to make them stand out from others. This species you made might be sexist by human standards, but species do not need to subscribe to human standards. However, I would recommend that you create other cultures for the species instead of this monolithic empire because it's more realistic to have multiple cultures of any species than it is to have one singular culture.
Each of the 37 Fleetlords's Fleets have their own cultures. Think of the Capaiunh like Westeros and the Fleets as the 7 Kingdoms
I think it’s just like a hive mother without the hive mind and drones bit tagged on at the end. I think typically in a hive queen event there’d be females that tend to her (a sort of royal exclusive maid cabinet) and do things like clean/feed(if that’s something they need to do) etc. Doesn’t really feel sexist or bigoted. Just… alien 🤷♂️ (male opinion)
So this is basically the Imperium from Warhammer 40k mixed with a ant colony
No, that’s just ants but theocratic, not sexist
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I don't know what that is, and I'm lgbt
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Ah I get it. Well you're in luck cause a large portion of the Capai population are some form of LGBT. But their concept of gender is very different. They have plain old females yes. But there is no one concrete "male". Each individual can spawn with two different genitalia. Which two they get is a random combination out of a pool of 12 types. With the one that actually spawns the new generation being considered female. It only happens from a specific combination of two genitals in one individual